Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: titanic3 on June 15, 2008, 08:13:46 PM
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Have you ever ran away from a fight? Have you ever left a buddy in a fight to die, just so you can protect your highly perked ride? If so, what made you run away? A huge furball? A 50+ air raid? Someone you can't stand and never want to fight them? Or were you protecting your #15 kills and wanted to land it?
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I have fled many a fight and left my wingman to die just because it amuses me.
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I've run away from several fights. He who runs away lives to brag to the ladies in the bar another day.
I've also left countrymen to die when they panic and run into the other team's ack trying to get away from a fighter.
But I've never left my wingman. And I never will leave my wingman.
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I think the only time i've ever ran from a fight was if i was already 1.) missing vital parts 2.) out of ammo 3.) out of gas.
I can be in a dora or another horrible slow speed plane, but i always end up turn fighting. I don't run from a 1v1 fight, EVER.
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Have you ever ran away from a fight?
Hell, yes!
Have you ever left a buddy in a fight to die,
I have no buddies
Someone you can't stand and never want to fight them?
I have never thought that way. All are just red icons.
Or were you protecting your #15 kills and wanted to land it?
I try to land every sortie, regardless number of kills I have, even when having none at all.
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I thought i was your buddy :cry :( :cry
lol
#S#
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I have trouble landing a field gun, so not point in running.
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I never run from fights...................
I often run from butt kickings ;) :D
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If I'm outnumbered, no ammo or fuel i run. Otherwise i fight. I never leave my wingman..ever. if I have no ammo, then I'll be bait, so that we can get out of there together and land as a squad.
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I don't run.
If I'm leaving a fight at all, I'm either damaged beyond being "helpful" or out of ammo. I will fight while on fumes, pilot wounded. This is a game, I've lost count of sorties where I've had a lot of kills, turned back to help and gotten shot down. I play for competition. I've also lost count of 5 on 1's I've walked away from - "shaking and mentally exhausted from being on the hats".
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When I'm in the middle of a cool 1vs1 or 1vs2 fight, and 2 or 3 more enemies decide it's time to doggy-pile me but I am faster, I run.
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When I'm in the middle of a cool 1vs1 or 1vs2 fight, and 2 or 3 more enemies decide it's time to doggy-pile me but I am faster, I run.
Ditto.
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I've ran from fights. When I see about 10 guys coming in with alt I get out as best I can. What I hope is that I will drag one out for some 1 vs 1 action and usually do.
As far as landing 15 kills. That rarely happens with me. I do like to land safely.
I have never left a wingman. However, I rarely have one. I sure have been left though. One of my first flights ins AH coming from AW I was flying with 2 guys I knew pretty well from AW. I got into a B&Z fight with 2 p51ds vs my f6. Now I wasn't very good in AH. I called for help to these two so called wingman and they both were only about 3k out. They left anyway saying they were short on fuel. They took off with drop tanks and we hadn't been gone for long. I had a ton of fuel and I took off with them. Anyway they left me and I died after being B&z'd for 15 minutes. I never ever thought well of those guys again and that's been 5 years ago. They have both left the game.
I have a thought, are you leaving your wingman if he dives deep into a furball or ups a capped base. I think not.
I miss some of the wingmen I had in AW. Those guys stuck with you. It was great! They may be playing AH but I don't know who they are.
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It all depends the situation, If I have the ammo and gas I will no doubt fight, however if the odds are more then bad that I wont survive, but I can slip out and make it home, honestly I'm disengaging and making it home rather then letting some gangtard get an easy kill. I prefer to stay alive and land with no kills then let someone get an easy victory in overwhelming situation.
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never.... even if its 1 on 10... i will still get in there and try to get some... even if i only last seconds... i see a knight in trouble, i jump in, nvr have left someone
-BigBOBCH
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Have you ever ran away from a fight? Have you ever left a buddy in a fight to die, just so you can protect your highly perked ride? If so, what made you run away? A huge furball? A 50+ air raid? Someone you can't stand and never want to fight them? Or were you protecting your #15 kills and wanted to land it?
when i was newer, i have. i used to almost ALWAYS run from higher cons. this was probably a bad thing, as now, almost 2 years playing, i STILL don't know how to fight them. i can deal with almost anysituation, and make most of you guys work before y'all kill me, UNLESS you're dropping from a few k above me. now, i don't run from y'all, but rather i try to make you overshoot, or i try to neutralize your advantage during my avoidance maneuvers. on 2 occasions, i had the attackers run from me once i managed to do this. on one of those occasions, i was bingo fuel, and my former attacker was 5k away and pulling away hard, so i turned away from him and tried to RTB. as i was on short final, wanna guess who was tryin to vulch me? :rofl
anyway, i don't run anymore. i die, i die. i don't die, then i must be getting better :aok
BTW....good thread i think!
<<S>>
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I run away anytime it is advantageous to do so. The use of speed to gain or re-gain the initiative or negate an enemy's advantage is the luxury afforded by having the faster plane and/or the most E. It is no different than a more manueverable aircraft using that advantage to turn inside a less manueverable aircraft. The use of a speed or an E advantage to engage and disengage at will and gain seperation is a fundamental core principle of air combat. It is the reason planes over time from WWI to the present have gotten increasingly faster not increasingly tighter turning. Although this may seem counter-intuitive, the runner, not the chaser always retains the initiative, think about it. The runner is the one that has the power to determine if, when, where and to some degree how a fight will occur. If you have ever been led to ack or higher enemy by a runner who then turns to re-engage you know exactly what I mean. To put it another way, the runner is the dog and the chaser is the tail he wags...
The popular mythology of feeling compelled to engage any plane with any other plane and fight until you die irrespective of performace, relative energy and positional advantages/disadvantages, ignoring available options to do otherwise, is a complete fictional contrivance of gaming and quite rediculous. The vast majority of air combat tactics and dogma, which we endeavor to emulate to a degree, is entirely predicated upon utilizing the advantages or your aircraft to negate those of the opposing aircraft in an effort to destroy it or prevent it from destroying you. To choose not to do so is not really pure air combat at all but some kind of trivialized arcade experience more akin to Ms. Pac Man, Frogger and Asteroids. If everyone adhered to that arcadish perversion of air combat we'd all be best off exclusively flying planes such as zekes and hurri's, the tightest turning plane would win virtually everytime, all other factor's being equal. If the Americans in the Pacific had done so we'd be speaking Japanese in Texas and hailing the Emperor.
The price you pay for flying a faster plane is proportionally poorer turning ability, conversely the price you pay for flying a turnier plane is lower speed. This simple trade-off is the over-arching balancing factor of this game and of the real world of air combat up to the modern era of guided munitions.
For every person I know who is a wonderful turnfighter I know another person who has perfected the art of attaining, maintaining and exploiting the initiative of a faster plane with deadly efficiency. Neither is better or worse than the other, they are simply two facets and approaches to air combat. Both require skill, knowledge and finesse. In reality we all do a little of both every flight, some better than others and to varying degrees of the spectrum.
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Yes, years ago when I use to E fight for kills and survival, always try and rtb and land as many kills as possible. Thinking that "Gixer landed XX kills" was the main goal. If the situation was no hope low fuel,ammo,damage multiple cons and the opportunity was there I'd nose down and run.
These days I like to try and keep with Soviet tactics when and where possible. Not to aimlessly fly around. But prior to the flight, study the map and then select one small sector to sweep or an asset to defend. Then proceed to attack anything and everything that enters the targeted area, whether it's one con or a mission. My own survival isn't the priority, it's to kill and disrupt as much as possible.
<S>...-Gixer
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I have fled many a fight and left my wingman to die just because it amuses me.
:lol
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I prefer to call it a tactical withdrawal, but I do run from fights when I must. I enjoy nothing more than a good dogfight and that is the main aim but if I do find myself being beaten in a fight and the other guy can't land a shot I won't stay there and let him kill me if I can force an error and get out of there.
I also like multiple v 1 engagements but I will fight in a way that I can have a chance of escaping. Any fool can run into a horde with all guns blazing and take a few dolts down with him. The challenge, I think, is putting yourself into challenging situations and getting out again.
Some of the best fun I've had has be in fighting withdrawal. This is not just 'WEP on and high-tail it' but some great fun can be had fighting to keep your squadies clear whilst trying to get out of an area that has become too hot. We've had some great success with our adaptation of the American 'thatch weave' tactic which uses three aircraft instead of two.
The fight is what the game is about, timid running at the first sign of trouble is not the way to play but getting home with your squadies is another part of the game that cannot be overlooked. Perhaps some do not have the same calibre of squadies that I'm lucky enough to have but when one does have a great bunch of guys to wing with getting home together can be just as much fun as throwing yourself head-long into a fight.
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Last night in Blue I shot down a P-39 in my spit V, took up all my ammunition (most hits!) to finally go down. I ran away from a 190 with 150 MG rounds, until I just decided to turn around and fight him. His P39 buddy came back as we were dancing on the deck (me without any ammunition) and finished me off :P
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Why from a fight? Yeah but have to missing a vital part or out of ammo
Never leave a wingman or squad mate unless there is nothing I can do to help.
Countrymen--- Sometimes depending on who is1
But for the most part I fly the Hurrican IIC and there aint no running from anything in that plane. For the most part it is stand and fight because you will end up just dieing anyways. :rock :devil
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I thought I was your sharkbait :cry :( :cry
But of course you are! :D
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I'll run if I'm low on ammo or fuel. I'll never run from a one-on-one and against multiples the only time I'll consider it is if, among the multis, theres both a pure T'n'ber and a speed burner. In that case I have limited options unless they both s**k.
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Yes, ive run from a fight. Reasons why vary. Missing parts, low ammo and fuel are top reasons. If im at a total disadvantage, I will extend in hopes of the enemy getting impatient and making a mistake I can use to gain the advantage. If I see I am greatly outnumbered, I will run. Once i ran from a fight cause my plane does not have inboard bathroom and I had to drop the kids off at da pool. Another time I ran from a fight cause the "countryman" near me was...... someone I would rather shoot down than clear their 6.
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I always run from a fight. I just like to fly around in little circles near friendly fields. No violence necessary. I know I could do that offline, but I also like conversing on range.
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I run to fights.
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I always run from fights, just depends whats going on. If I'm in a Jug and there's a spitty on my 6, I'll run, if he calls me a running dweeb, then I'll respond "DAMN RIGHT" got into the same argument with Karaya, but I'm bearly able to fly now, still not used to the new joystick settings (I stall alot more)
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When I'm in the middle of a cool 1vs1 or 1vs2 fight, and 2 or 3 more enemies decide it's time to doggy-pile me but I am faster, I run.
youve run from me 1 on 1 more than once...
and no i never run from a fight im the first to dive in.
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No!!!! Never!!! Absolutely not!! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Dick bong got it right
No parts = home
No ammo = no kill + home
No fuel = ground sucks yo', im goin' home.
Period.
Everything else is a fight fest, no runing.
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I always run from fights, just depends whats going on. If I'm in a Jug and there's a spitty on my 6, I'll run, if he calls me a running dweeb, then I'll respond "DAMN RIGHT" got into the same argument with Karaya, but I'm bearly able to fly now, still not used to the new joystick settings (I stall alot more)
You overshot your attempted pick on me and ran from my Ki-61 (while I was trying to clear a friendly). There were NOT 3 cons on you, just me. After a minute of chasing your Spit 8, I pulled off. You IMMEDIATELY piled went to a friendly who was already in a 1 vs 1. Filth shot you down.
Pull out all of the "I let someone use my joystick" excuses you want. I realize I'm not that good since I don't have my "Tour Start" in my signature.
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I'm usually in the slowest plane so running is not an option for me. I stay, fight, and most often die. Every once in a while I surprise even myself and survive to land. :O
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yes.
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When I was flying bombers I could always tell guys with kills to land. First they'd try sneaking up, just in case I had bombers in auto and was away from my puter. Then after the first spritz they would turn on a dime and I could time their landing by looking at the closest base. Course there are a few dedicated buff hunters I wished I could have ran from. :uhoh
Ive had fighters run from 1 on 1s all the time. Its disgusting really. To see a FW-run90, runstang, or runphoon, make one vulch run and then high tail it from a 1 on 1. There are a few guys, I wont name, that show up at vulches and who disappear when the dar starts to even. Score 'hoe's. Everyone of them.
My big thing is this. You aren't going to learn nothing by running. I already know how to run, knew it before I played the game. Sure if the odds are stacked against you but never from a 1 on 1 or even 2 on 1. The other day I was in a LA and could have run from a 3 on 1 but instead turned and fought 3 slower fighters. I ended up killing 1, running another into water, and flew well until the 3rd got me. All in all very educational, I learned to use their greed against them. And I was glad I didn't run.
Ive noticed that many of the runners are also stick stir'ers.
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I Make it a priority to run down 190s and 51's now - one thing I found funny is I actually catch 51's since they do tend to dogfight or try too -
however 190s just RUN.
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You overshot your attempted pick on me and ran from my Ki-61 (while I was trying to clear a friendly). There were NOT 3 cons on you, just me. After a minute of chasing your Spit 8, I pulled off. You IMMEDIATELY piled went to a friendly who was already in a 1 vs 1. Filth shot you down.
Pull out all of the "I let someone use my joystick" excuses you want. I realize I'm not that good since I don't have my "Tour Start" in my signature.
Hey, I didn't let anybody use my joystick. I had gone to the TA earlier to work on my overshoots, the trainer had me adjust some settings (stall limiter and a few other things) and I'm still adjusting to it. So quit crying and suck it up you big baby. How about you go LOOK for a fight. Dont expect them to come to you. I saw you, an La-7, and another spitty on me, I did what anybody else woulda done, I ran, eventually, the other 2 pulled off, but you were still 600 away from me, I couldnt do anything (still working on the rolling scissors overshoot) Instead of being mature and friendly about it, you had to respond to it in an immature way.
So instead of a usual "you ran from me, but I'll get ya eventually" you gave me a "WAHH WAHH, 1PLUS TRIED TO PICK ME AND RAN, I'M GONNA GO CRY ON 200 AND ON TEH BOARDS AND BE A sweetheart ABOUT IT!!!! SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK"
I usually take a friendly approach on 200, country, on the boards, and in real life. I was friendly about it the whole time, you just had to do this.
~1pLUs44
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To me kills are not kills if I cannot land them. I engage and disengage constantly. Advantage through SA is what I seek, but I NEED them kills too, not just flying around safely. When I get cornered and outnumbered I brawl it out with them until I die, find a way to disengage or gain back the advantage. However, I do not whine about it. It is my own mistake if I put myself into a bad position or lose my SA.
So called "fair or even fights" or 1-on-1:s in equal planes are NOT what I am actively looking for. To me they are like penalty shoot-outs whereas I enjoy the actual game with surprises and variable odds. I personally find this game more challenging and fun when trying to follow the old saying:
"A fighter pilot uses superior judgment to stay out of situations where he would have to rely on superior skill." To me the fight is on already before I can see the dots or icons.
If I am alone above 5 enemies, I try to kill them all one by one. If I am below them, I run ... and maybe gain the advantage on the last one or two chasers.
I will certainly leave friendlies to cope on their own if they are clearly suicidal or cannot grasp how to help me to help them (e.g. drag their tailing enemies to my face instead of offering their tails to me).
What is best in this game, is that we all can pretty much decide how we want to play it. If only people could allow the same decision to others as well.
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Blauk sums it up pretty well for me, except that I'll add that I don't get near as much enjoyment out of dying with 5 kills than I do out of playing to the limit of my abilities and landing a sortie (even if I land no kills).
<S>
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I have fled many a fight and left my wingman to die just because it amuses me.
ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :aok
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Have you ever ran away from a fight?
Yes, but in my own defense I must say she was much bigger than me.
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I realize I'm not that good since I don't have my "Tour Start" in my signature.
Is that what all the cool kids are doing these days? :D
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To me kills are not kills if I cannot land them. I engage and disengage constantly. Advantage through SA is what I seek, but I NEED them kills too, not just flying around safely. When I get cornered and outnumbered I brawl it out with them until I die, find a way to disengage or gain back the advantage. However, I do not whine about it. It is my own mistake if I put myself into a bad position or lose my SA.
So called "fair or even fights" or 1-on-1:s in equal planes are NOT what I am actively looking for. To me they are like penalty shoot-outs whereas I enjoy the actual game with surprises and variable odds. I personally find this game more challenging and fun when trying to follow the old saying:
"A fighter pilot uses superior judgment to stay out of situations where he would have to rely on superior skill." To me the fight is on already before I can see the dots or icons.
If I am alone above 5 enemies, I try to kill them all one by one. If I am below them, I run ... and maybe gain the advantage on the last one or two chasers.
I will certainly leave friendlies to cope on their own if they are clearly suicidal or cannot grasp how to help me to help them (e.g. drag their tailing enemies to my face instead of offering their tails to me).
What is best in this game, is that we all can pretty much decide how we want to play it. If only people could allow the same decision to others as well.
This guy actually gets it. Air combat when done well is a symphony of cerebral exercise. There's occassional times to fight like a cornered, rabid, pit bull and there's times to surgically extract and re-insert yourself into the fight for maximum effectiveness. An intelligent and disciplined pilot should not find himself in a predicament where his only option is to fight at a severe disadvantage or die very often. Killing people who, "Fly with their pants down around their ankles" is rather simple for the thinking pilot. They aren't proving anything by flying that way other than they are willing to spend 10 minutes of their life getting a new plane to the fight.
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To me kills are not kills if I cannot land them. I engage and disengage constantly. Advantage through SA is what I seek, but I NEED them kills too, not just flying around safely. When I get cornered and outnumbered I brawl it out with them until I die, find a way to disengage or gain back the advantage. However, I do not whine about it. It is my own mistake if I put myself into a bad position or lose my SA.
So called "fair or even fights" or 1-on-1:s in equal planes are NOT what I am actively looking for. To me they are like penalty shoot-outs whereas I enjoy the actual game with surprises and variable odds. I personally find this game more challenging and fun when trying to follow the old saying:
"A fighter pilot uses superior judgment to stay out of situations where he would have to rely on superior skill." To me the fight is on already before I can see the dots or icons.
If I am alone above 5 enemies, I try to kill them all one by one. If I am below them, I run ... and maybe gain the advantage on the last one or two chasers.
I will certainly leave friendlies to cope on their own if they are clearly suicidal or cannot grasp how to help me to help them (e.g. drag their tailing enemies to my face instead of offering their tails to me).
What is best in this game, is that we all can pretty much decide how we want to play it. If only people could allow the same decision to others as well.
Well said Blauk.
:salute
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But of course you are! :D
:rofl
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Once... in DGS, my wingman had just died and I was stuck with 3-4 Me109Ks all by myself.
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I like to fight if I'm out of ammo. So I just ram,only if they attack me first.
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"Running away from a fight". That term always amuses me.
First off, let's define "Fight".
If by fight you mean a fair confrontation, then no. Unless I'm out of ammo- then I'm on my way home anyway and just have a small detour.
But all too often those accusing people of "running" are expecting a P-51 to get into a co-alt turning brawl with their Niki's and what not, and are just sweetying.
Basically, it comes down to this- I'm not in the game to get shot down. I'm in the game to shoot *you* down. If I come across a situation in which I don't feel I have a significant chance of victory, I retire and come back with more of an advantage.
Jumping into a fight in which the best chance you have for victory is for the other guy to make a big mistake doesn't seem smart to me.
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i dont run.....
however.....
my squadie hibbie will follow me into a furball and i usually end up dying and leaving him behind to fend for himself. he claims its fun. he is the ONLY squadie willing to do that. everyone else in my squad just stays high above and uses me for bait.. (points at kermit and shauny)
i have been told i need to extend or climb out and grab some alt but WHY would i want to do that...its more fun just to see how long i will actually survive before i die :)
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I dont run I extend from the battle :D
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I had a guy in a Jug N run from me while flying a Hurri I last night :rofl
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Since I almost always fly a C.205, no need to run, almost anyone can catch me. Basically, as long as I have ammo and fuel, I stay and fight.
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I ran from Fcmartin yesterday in my YAK. we had goons inbound and drawing away any willing fighter is a good tactic ;) and i was a following orders
plus it's hard to kill a yak from 300yds w/ mind bullets
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"Running away from a fight". That term always amuses me.
First off, let's define "Fight".
If by fight you mean a fair confrontation, then no. Unless I'm out of ammo- then I'm on my way home anyway and just have a small detour.
But all too often those accusing people of "running" are expecting a P-51 to get into a co-alt turning brawl with their Niki's and what not, and are just sweetying.
Basically, it comes down to this- I'm not in the game to get shot down. I'm in the game to shoot *you* down. If I come across a situation in which I don't feel I have a significant chance of victory, I retire and come back with more of an advantage.
Jumping into a fight in which the best chance you have for victory is for the other guy to make a big mistake doesn't seem smart to me.
Well put.
I often get taunted for running away in a typhie which I often fly. I have a spit 16 1k behind me and we are at the same altitude and speed at the start. I point my nose down and accellerate away from him while he taunts me on 200 for running and not staying to turn fight with him. :huh Sorry, I was born at night but it wasn't last night.
You sorta have to wonder about the character of those whose idea of a "fair fight" is taking their spitfire against a jug or typh in a close range turn fight at mid-low speeds.
Of course there are a few, and I mean a very FEW exceptional pilots who can pull that off. Hats off to them, they deserve their accolades. And yes, I am jealous. :D
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Being a Typh dweeb I have to agree with the last comment...sometimes in that fn dumptruck you don't have a solution against an acrobat except to extend.....unless ur Riiich or Koolbreez ;) :salute
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I flew a P-47N last night. I engaged a co-alt P-51D. We ended up in a one-on-one turn fight on the deck. It's true that you learn nothing by running. I learned (what I already knew) that the P-51D was a better turn fighter on the deck than the P-47N. At least I gave him a run for his money and we exchanged <S>'s afterward. It was more fun that lamely flying away.
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"Running away from a fight". That term always amuses me.
First off, let's define "Fight".
If by fight you mean a fair confrontation, then no. Unless I'm out of ammo- then I'm on my way home anyway and just have a small detour.
But all too often those accusing people of "running" are expecting a P-51 to get into a co-alt turning brawl with their Niki's and what not, and are just sweetying.
Basically, it comes down to this- I'm not in the game to get shot down. I'm in the game to shoot *you* down. If I come across a situation in which I don't feel I have a significant chance of victory, I retire and come back with more of an advantage.
Jumping into a fight in which the best chance you have for victory is for the other guy to make a big mistake doesn't seem smart to me.
Very well said.
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Well put.
I often get taunted for running away in a typhie which I often fly. I have a spit 16 1k behind me and we are at the same altitude and speed at the start. I point my nose down and accellerate away from him while he taunts me on 200 for running and not staying to turn fight with him. :huh Sorry, I was born at night but it wasn't last night.
You sorta have to wonder about the character of those whose idea of a "fair fight" is taking their spitfire against a jug or typh in a close range turn fight at mid-low speeds.
Of course there are a few, and I mean a very FEW exceptional pilots who can pull that off. Hats off to them, they deserve their accolades. And yes, I am jealous. :D
That's exactly it. Any plane with a significant turning advantage will obviously want you to stay and knife fight. The cards are all in his favor in a Co-E situation. It is the luxury afforded the faster plane to have the initiative to choose when/if/where/how there will be a fight, dis-engaging and re-engaging at will. That is the nature of air combat with dissimilar planes and always has been. The prudent exercise of that very tactical discretion is the reason the US beat the Japanese in the air.
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This guy actually gets it. Air combat when done well is a symphony of cerebral exercise. There's occassional times to fight like a cornered, rabid, pit bull and there's times to surgically extract and re-insert yourself into the fight for maximum effectiveness. An intelligent and disciplined pilot should not find himself in a predicament where his only option is to fight at a severe disadvantage or die very often. Killing people who, "Fly with their pants down around their ankles" is rather simple for the thinking pilot. They aren't proving anything by flying that way other than they are willing to spend 10 minutes of their life getting a new plane to the fight.
BluaK ... stated ... "To me ..." ... his personal agenda ... which doesn't match mine ... which doesn't make his (or yours) any better or less than mine.
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BluaK ... stated ... "To me ..." ... his personal agenda ... which doesn't match mine ... which doesn't make his (or yours) any better or less than mine.
Quoting myself from earlier:
For every person I know who is a wonderful turnfighter I know another person who has perfected the art of attaining, maintaining and exploiting the initiative of a faster plane with deadly efficiency. Neither is better or worse than the other, they are simply two facets and approaches to air combat. Both require skill, knowledge and finesse. In reality we all do a little of both every flight, some better than others and to varying degrees of the spectrum
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Could I suggest you the word "extend" as way better appropriate, and in any case its not your business :P
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It depends on the situation. Out of ammo, missing parts are no brainers. But if I feel the match up is favorable or even equal I'll stick around and fight it out. If I feel like I'm at disadvantage I'm gonna try and get out. But even then I"m not running, my mindset is an agressive one. I'm always looking for the situation that I can reverse and fight with an advantage.
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Hey, I didn't let anybody use my joystick. I had gone to the TA earlier to work on my overshoots, the trainer had me adjust some settings (stall limiter and a few other things) and I'm still adjusting to it. So quit crying and suck it up you big baby. How about you go LOOK for a fight. Dont expect them to come to you. I saw you, an La-7, and another spitty on me, I did what anybody else woulda done, I ran, eventually, the other 2 pulled off, but you were still 600 away from me, I couldnt do anything (still working on the rolling scissors overshoot) Instead of being mature and friendly about it, you had to respond to it in an immature way.
So instead of a usual "you ran from me, but I'll get ya eventually" you gave me a "WAHH WAHH, 1PLUS TRIED TO PICK ME AND RAN, I'M GONNA GO CRY ON 200 AND ON TEH BOARDS AND BE A sweetheart ABOUT IT!!!! SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK"
I usually take a friendly approach on 200, country, on the boards, and in real life. I was friendly about it the whole time, you just had to do this.
~1pLUs44
Only one getting bent out of shape is you. Also, you "made it a point" to mention me in your post. Had you chose NOT TO, I never would have said a thing about it.
You ran alright. You also got shot down by Filth, while attempting to gang him. I responded in a mature manner. No lies, conjecture, or opinions were used in any of my posts, just the facts. Your excuses of "working on overshoots" are BS because I easily outmaneuvered your pick attempt and you NO PROBLEMS saddling up on Filth.
BTW, when you leveled off OTD, the "2 cons in question" were long called off. They didn't follow and I was 600 behind you for easily 1/3rd of a sector.
Again, make up any excuses you can. Every post on the Ki 61 says "it sucks". You were in a Spit 8. Therefore, by said logic of the "AH Community" you had the advantage.
Furthermore, you're the one pointing the "bad guy" finger at me, but yet, YOU are the one calling names. :rock
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I would never leave a friendly to fight for himself. And I dont care if I like the guy or not, as long as I had gas and bullets I'd drop and try and help him. Or especially if he called for help.
The way I see it in actual combat a friendly would never leave another friendly to die. The exception being large bomber formations where you cant just break up the formation due to one cripple. Anyway the fun for me in the game is to pretend your in WW-ll. And if you do get shot down? Well who really cares anyway?
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The way I see it in actual combat a friendly would never leave another friendly to die. The exception being large bomber formations where you cant just break up the formation due to one cripple. Anyway the fun for me in the game is to pretend your in WW-ll. And if you do get shot down? Well who really cares anyway?
In actual combat some friendly moron wouldn't get low 'n slow with 10 Spit16's at the foot of their airbase where they can contrinually re-up and re-engage within 30 seconds after being shot down... If I see someone flying intelligently who just needs help egressing or is getting bounced they are deserving of help. If I see someone just barreling into 20 enemy, blowing all his E to merry go round with them, he's on his own;)
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In actual combat some friendly moron wouldn't get low 'n slow with 10 Spit16's at the foot of their airbase where they can contrinually re-up and re-engage within 30 seconds after being shot down... If I see someone flying intelligently who just needs help egressing or is getting bounced they are deserving of help. If I see someone just barreling into 20 enemy, blowing all his E to merry go round with them, he's on his own;)
Hmmm... sounds like someone I know.
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That's exactly it. Any plane with a significant turning advantage will obviously want you to stay and knife fight. The cards are all in his favor in a Co-E situation. It is the luxury afforded the faster plane to have the initiative to choose when/if/where/how there will be a fight, dis-engaging and re-engaging at will. That is the nature of air combat with dissimilar planes and always has been. The prudent exercise of that very tactical discretion is the reason the US beat the Japanese in the air.
I don't disagree with what Zazen has been saying, so please don't take this as such . . .
. . . but what I find ironic is that oftentimes it is the people who are good at "controlling" the fight with their superior speed/climb/etc. whine very loudly when the person at a tactical disadvantage equalizes the situation by bringing his nose about and squeezing the trigger . . .
As for "running" -- not that I can remember. I certainly will, however, attempt to land a wounded bird to deny the enemy his kill if he was sloppy about it. But I don't think that can be considered "running" when they are vulching you out of the hanger or BnZing you near your base.
Usually I do something silly instead of following the prudent course. I've tried to chase enemies off friendlies with no ammo (hey, he doesn't know I am out of ammo!), and end up getting shot down later as a result. Or end up being too aggressive (meaning, fly stupidly) and wind up with more than I can handle (usually an Oak or the occasional hillside).
A couple of nights ago I had upped a B-24 as part of a squad bombing mission. When my ord was expended, I noticed a zeke over a carrier. I could have just kept flying, but what's the fun of just landing? I turned around, tried to bait the zeke into coming to get me, kept turning towards him . . . but I think he got wise to what I was doing and avoided me so he could protect the carrier from any lingering buffs that actually had bombs . . . I wasn't going to catch him, so I finally started to RTB only to notice a bit later that a Spit (8 or 16, can't recall) was chasing a friendly on the deck. So, I inprudently turned my 24s and dove. I played the angle fairly well (yay!!) and almost managed to cross the Spitty's path, firing at him as I did so. He avoided my shots as far as I could tell, but it ruined his chase, and the friendly got away. For some reason (maybe he was out of ammo?) the Spitty ignored me and he went the other way, back toward the carrier. So, despite my best efforts, I did not manage to get killed. :cry Nor did I get a thank-you for the clear. :frown:
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I don't disagree with what Zazen has been saying, so please don't take this as such . . .
. . . but what I find ironic is that oftentimes it is the people who are good at "controlling" the fight with their superior speed/climb/etc. whine very loudly when the person at a tactical disadvantage equalizes the situation by bringing his nose about and squeezing the trigger . . .
That's a great point. In fact, this is one of the rules of Boelke's Dicta..."Always turn into the attacker to meet the attack". It is one of the few situations where risking a HO or forward quarter deflection shot is warranted and the correct move in alot of these situations. I am always super careful when attacking a Niki or Hurricane because I know a good pilot will definately pull a high G turn into my face if I give him the chance and I don't blame him when he does.
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Only one getting bent out of shape is you. Also, you "made it a point" to mention me in your post. Had you chose NOT TO, I never would have said a thing about it.
You ran alright. You also got shot down by Filth, while attempting to gang him. I responded in a mature manner. No lies, conjecture, or opinions were used in any of my posts, just the facts. Your excuses of "working on overshoots" are BS because I easily outmaneuvered your pick attempt and you NO PROBLEMS saddling up on Filth.
BTW, when you leveled off OTD, the "2 cons in question" were long called off. They didn't follow and I was 600 behind you for easily 1/3rd of a sector.
Again, make up any excuses you can. Every post on the Ki 61 says "it sucks". You were in a Spit 8. Therefore, by said logic of the "AH Community" you had the advantage.
Furthermore, you're the one pointing the "bad guy" finger at me, but yet, YOU are the one calling names. :rock
Me? You're crying cuz I ran. Oh noes... zOMG! I adjusted my stick settings with a Trainer (Rolex) in the TA, wasn't used to it. If you wanna keep this going, take it to a PM and quit making more of a sweetheart out of yourself.
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Me? You're crying cuz I ran. Oh noes... zOMG! I adjusted my stick settings with a Trainer (Rolex) in the TA, wasn't used to it. If you wanna keep this going, take it to a PM and quit making more of a sweetheart out of yourself.
I believe one has just stated their own situation... :noid
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:noid :noid :noid :D
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Yes I have.
Shortly after I started this game, I remember one time when I shot down a P-51D in my Spit XVI, and then ran from a lone C.205, mostly because I was so happy I'd finally gotten a kill and really wanted to land it. Predictably, I was extremely annoyed, when, after outrunning the C.205, the game crashed as I came into land and lowered my flaps...
<S>
Yossarian
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Me? You're crying cuz I ran. Oh noes... zOMG! I adjusted my stick settings with a Trainer (Rolex) in the TA, wasn't used to it. If you wanna keep this going, take it to a PM and quit making more of a sweetheart out of yourself.
I'm not, you're still the one slinging insults. :aok
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I'm not, you're still the one slinging insults. :aok
(http://www.savvy-baby-gear.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/baby-crying.jpg)
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Yeah, sometimes it pays to disengage. I watched a show about Duke Cunningham (the F-4 ace), and I've employed one of his tactics to help me disengage. It really works too. I usually fly the P-51. On many occasions, I have found myself in a low speed rolling scissors with a more maneuverable plane (spit, ki84, etc). I use the maneuver he talked about to get myself the hell out of a bad situation.
Heres my criteria for staying or for running. If theres any chance of saving a friendly, I'll stay. But if the situation is hopeless, screw'em. I hate taking off and climbing.
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Is that what all the cool kids are doing these days? :D
You didn't know it was the mark of a true Experten? How else are we supposed to know who to fear if they don't have "Playing since Tour 96" in their signatures? I know if I see a player with that in their signature, I know they are a Sierra Hotel pilot and will stay clear from them.
ack-ack
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How else are we supposed to know who to fear if they don't have "Playing since Tour 96" in their signatures? I know if I see a player with that in their signature, I know they are a Sierra Hotel pilot and will stay clear from them.
ack-ack
:rofl
<S>...-Gixer
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Well put.
I often get taunted for running away in a typhie which I often fly. I have a spit 16 1k behind me and we are at the same altitude and speed at the start. I point my nose down and accellerate away from him while he taunts me on 200 for running and not staying to turn fight with him. :huh Sorry, I was born at night but it wasn't last night.
But you still tucked your tail and ran when you could have used other tactics to counter the Spitfire's turn rate instead of running home. Just because you can't out turn a plane in an angles fight doesn't mean you can't fight the plane, just have to know what your plane can and can't do vs. what the other plane can and can't do and plan your fight accordingly.
ack-ack
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You didn't know it was the mark of a true Experten? How else are we supposed to know who to fear if they don't have "Playing since Tour 96" in their signatures? I know if I see a player with that in their signature, I know they are a Sierra Hotel pilot and will stay clear from them.
ack-ack
We've got to meet up one of these days. LMFAO. :rock :salute
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I have done most everything in the previous 6 pages of this thread , LOL and tried most everything , its fun and a good game , but yep I've ran with my skirt up to land kills too . LOL most of us have
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I'm not, you're still the one slinging insults. :aok
Not any more atleast :noid
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I don't fly a tnb ufo, so I'll run away to disperse the lemming gang train till I can deal with them 1 or 2 at a time. If Stang is along for the ride, all the fancy pants survivalism goes out the window and we go straight into as much as 10 hordlings and kill em all or die a few short.
I always turn around for wingmen.
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I only ever run if I miss the ho, my alt advantage gets less than 5k, my ammo is less than 75% and when I need to breastfeed myself.
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ehh, I'm not gonna play till we get some newer maps in the MA
No offense to HTC, I just cant stand the maps we got in rotation now (Ozkansas and Titanic Tuesday maps.)
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You didn't know it was the mark of a true Experten? How else are we supposed to know who to fear if they don't have "Playing since Tour 96" in their signatures? I know if I see a player with that in their signature, I know they are a Sierra Hotel pilot and will stay clear from them.
ack-ack
Lol I'd put "playing since tour 11" in my sig, but it would then lead to the obvious question "Why is this guy SUUUUCCcchhh a bad stick?"
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ehh, I'm not gonna play till we get some newer maps in the MA
No offense to HTC, I just cant stand the maps we got in rotation now (Ozkansas and Titanic Tuesday maps.)
:rofl
See you in a couple years then.
<S>...-Gixer
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I won't suicide in the horde for a wingman that failed to keep his E, and dived at the first red icon he saw.
Makes me think of the guys that scream for help while they are turn fighting like mad at the end of the nmy runway :) Best part is when that guy complains on country channel that he got now help =)
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i withdrew in order for reinforcements to arrive. its suicide and down right stupid to go into a winless situation. ive been successful against noobs 7 vs 1 or experienced pilots 2 vs 1 but no way will i attack unknown pilots in rides superior than mine outnumbered.
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I ran away from a fight just last night. I was in a Stuka on my way to drop "the big bomb" on a strat site. I got that feeling we all get from time to time. Looked behind me and there was an F6F 800 behind me. I dropped the bomb and did a diving turn for the ground. I juked and turned and headed back to my base. He shot out both of my landing gear, a flap and I received a pilot wound. BUT he followed me into the base flack. I landed. He didn't.
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I don't fly a tnb ufo, so I'll run away to disperse the lemming gang train till I can deal with them 1 or 2 at a time.
Same here. My Dora turns like a cement mixer :D, so it's prudent to boogie and drag until you can separate an opponent from the herd. Hardly anyone can catch you, and when the last guy finally throws in the towel I reverse and usually have a great 1v1.
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Same here. My Dora turns like a cement mixer :D, so it's prudent to boogie and drag until you can separate an opponent from the herd. Hardly anyone can catch you, and when the last guy finally throws in the towel I reverse and usually have a great 1v1.
Which is cool because you are then too busy to notice the 11 guys who are now busy whining/bragging on 200 about the ba**-*ess Run90 they just chased away ...
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im typing on a cellphone so im going to make this as simple as possible. i have ran from fights before. i have never run from a 1v1 if i have fuel or ammo though. also apparently i have never left a wingman due to the fact that some of my squaddies will only take me or selino because "the rest of them are obessed with kills and think they can use you as bait to get kills. wow just typing thst on cell took 5 minutes
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Which is cool because you are then too busy to notice the 11 guys who are now busy whining/bragging on 200 about the ba**-*ess Run90 they just chased away ...
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Unfortunately, I don't feel qualified to tune 200 since my correct use of spelling apparently confuses children, not to mention my complete inability to make french fries. :)
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Unfortunately, I don't feel qualified to tune 200 since my correct use of spelling apparently confuses children, not to mention my complete inability to make french fries. :)
French Fries? What ever happened to Freedom Fries? :lol
<S>...-Gixer
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I've ran away from plenty of fights. That's the first rule of Air Combat. NEVER ATTACK AN ENEMY WHO HAS THE ADVANTAGE. Whether it's altitude, a better plane, better firepower, a better pilot, or friendly flak to hide under... it really doesn't matter. I would even go as far as to say having your line of egress (retreat) cut off by nme planes uping in the sector behind you, is ample reason to break off from an engagement and bug out. The first rule is always SURVIVAL.
I can only think of one situation that would compel me to stay in a losing battle. If another pilot cleared my six as I was about to be shot down.. I'd be obliged to remain and fight whatever the odds. Until the other pilot has the opportunity to disengage as well.
I must admit I'm more than a bit reluctant myself to clear the six of a friendly pilot in trouble. Too often the pilot you just saved will immediately bug out. Leaving you in the exact same situation you just saved him from. This happened to me dozens of times when I first started flying. It rarely happens anymore.
I would also not expect a formation of bombers to engage enemy planes in order to help a friendly fighter. That's insane. Yes. Bombers are armed (lightly in any one gun position), and highly unmaneuverable. It would be like expecting your sister to jump in and help you in a fist fight. Bombers should always Bug Out.