Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: stephen waldron on June 26, 2008, 07:11:43 AM
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Better idea. If you're in any model except a P-47D-11, you're not in a fighter plane,(they got that much right). Stick to your tactical bombing mission. Your mission is not to drop your ordinance in the ocean and tangle with fighters. The first priority, is to fly away, and head to an alternate target and drop your bombs on something that counts.
I know everybody is going to say the enemy fighter will just chase you down and kill you. He certainly WILL if you waste precious seconds thinking about attacking him before you make this decision. Bug out with your ordinance while he's still a tiny black at extreme range. He probably won't even see you, especially if there are other planes closer to him.
Stay on mission. Even if you hear someone else SCREAMING for help. Don't trade places with a pilot who got himself into trouble. Nobody is going to clear your six if you do. That's just the way it is in the MA.
Don't trust friendly fighters either to tell you they are LEAVING. One minute they're there, and the next minute they're GONE. I generally check the clipboard after every attack run to see who's running away. You'll be over a flashing target for quite awhile. It takes some time to empty the ord on a P-47.
Dive bombing ? You don't want to experiment with that against targets that shoot back. Not in the beginning. Level bombing at 2 thousand works just fine against undamaged and lightly damaged factories. Just wait till the nose of the icon of your plane breaks the icon of the complex on your clipboard map.. and bombs away. Don't worry. Nine times outta ten you're gonna hit something. There are plenty of targets down there.
Strafe the AA guns after you get your bombs and rockets off. The rockets are way too inaccurate for new pilots to waste trying to hit AA positions with. Your guns are way MORE accurate than the rockets. This is imperitive to remember against nme airfield and town AA, as it will be shooting back at you while you are attacking. But don't fly against these targets in the beginning until you get the bugs worked out.
Forget about armored targets too. Especially if the tank is stopped. In all likelihood, the guy is sitting in the AA machinegun position with the crosshairs on you just waiting for you to make that mistake. If he's running away at full speed, unless he's crazy, he's probably driving the tank and focused on where he is going. This is a good candidate for rockets.
For now just concentrate on easy targets and bringing your plane home without damage so you can put together some experience and multiple missions in a single sortie. That's where the score is.
If you can't resist dive bombing CV's. At least pick the ones that are already damaged. Odds are some of the flak will be knocked out. Maybe flight ops as well. That equals a "Soft" target. Which is your preferred target as a beginner.
Occasionally the enemy will come after you in a 262. The counter tactic to this is simple. When you see the nme DAR bar light up in your sector, it's time to go. Level out and hit your WEP alternating every 20 seconds so it don't run out.. and head for home. You'll be sitting in the tower drinking coffee when the 262 flies over. How do you know the DAR bar is a 262 ? You don't, but you assume it is.
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This has got to be the biggest steaming pile of dingo's kidneys you've posted yet.
BTW, hows the juggin' working out for you Waldron?
http://www.mediafire.com/?fjmymbtnt40 (http://www.mediafire.com/?fjmymbtnt40)
Not so well!
(I'm assuming that Wal-Dren and Wal-Dron have gotta be one and the same, folks...btw, anyone else noticed that wal-dren is "nerd-law" spelled backwards?)
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:confused:
Wow dude. Just, wow.
Anyone who read this, please disregard. Contact your local Jugaholic for proper Jug help should you need it. Nomde, Westy, Widewing are all great resources.
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:confused:
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For the new players who might read this...
Almost EVERYTHING that the thread creator typed is 100% wrong. (possibly everything)
It is probably the worst advice (top 10 at least) I have ever seen posted on the AH BBS in the 7 years I have been reading it.
Steven, it seems you are having a horrible AcesHigh experience. It might be time to consider either "packing it up" and moving on to another game, OR get it through your skull that this game takes YEARS to figure out and get "good" at. You have flown at best for a couple of months. (just a guess from reading your posts, but I bet it's accurate)
There are many ways to get better at this game. One would be reading. You have been provided (in other threads) with some great links that if you take the time to read (and absorb) it will make your game playing experience much more fullfilling. Start logging the hours in the TA practicing with one of our fabulous trainers, and read everything that has been suggested you peruse at least twice.
A good start would be to go to www.netaces.org and read EVERYTHING there at least three times. Print it all out, and read it over and over every chance you get.
Hopefull it will eventually sink in and everything will start "clicking".
This isn't some lame FPS that you can get "good" at in a month. Think of getting "good" at AcesHigh like learning a musical instrument. You are not going to be able to play Chopins: Op. 66 in C sharp minor 2-3 months after you start trying to learn the piano.
Quit posting drivle when you should be @ netaces reading.
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(I just have to add this... found @ www.netaces.org and with much thanks to Vudak. Steven, this is for you)
So You're Looking to Improve
by Vudak
So You're Looking to Improve...
Every so often a new guy will ask for tips on how to get better at Aces High. My best advice is to treat it like a sport.
There are a few key ways to quickly get better at a sport. I will use hockey as an example because it is my sport and because it is a fairly multinational one at that.
1. You study the terminology of the sport;
2. You watch professional hockey games;
3. You try to emulate what the professionals do;
4. If available, you get a professional to help you one on one;
5. You pay attention to your bad habits the professional points out, and you work to correct them;
6. You practice shooting and skating on your own with a net and some cones;
7. You play against people your own skill level;
8. You play with bigger, better kids as often as you can; and
9. You approach it all with a good attitude.
This is all completely possible to do in Aces High.
1. If you’re going to get good at Aces High, you need to do studying first. You need to know what other people are talking about when they say, “Lead turn,” for example. You need to have a basic understanding of the planes and what they are well suited for. You need to know how to work your controls, etc.
The way to do this is to do what nearly every single good player before you has done. READ. There are thousands of pages available in books and scattered across the internet to help you get better at this game. You should be reading as much of it as you can if you want to improve.
2. Instead of watching a professional game, watch the films of veterans. Go to a King of the Hill and watch it in God Mode after you’ve been dispatched. See how the better sticks do their thing. You’ll notice they do certain things in a similar way. If you want to improve, it stands to reason that you should learn how to do these things too.
3. Three is self explanatory. You try to do the things you’ve see done in the films of better players.
4. If available, you get a professional to help you. Luckily enough, that is what the trainers are here for. They are all highly skilled players with, in many cases, decades of experience with flight sims, and they know how to teach as well. You cannot go wrong by asking them for help.
5. No matter how skilled you are your trainer will find things in your game that you can do better. Listen to your trainer. If you’re not going to listen to them, you’re wasting both of your time.
6. Instead of practicing picking corners shooting at an empty net, practice shooting the drones offline. Try different angles and distances. Turn your tracers off, fire short bursts, and try to develop a “sight picture” of what works and what does not. Poor aim will get you killed in Aces High almost as much as poor decisions. Good aim will let you survive the latter, every now and then.
7. Find a buddy of the same skill level as you and practice with him. Go to the Training Arena, take your favorite planes, and just have at it for a few ammo and fuel loads. Once someone is unshakably on the other’s six, break off and remerge. Keep going at it, take the fight as slow as you can, and really learn the planes low speed envelope. This is the best way in the world to learn how to control a nearly stalling plane, and that is a skill you are going to need to know unless you plan on running away from everyone your entire time in Aces High.
8. Play with the big boys. This is key. The absolute best way to improve in any sport is to play against people who are better than you. It forces you to up your game to have any chance, and by doing so, you improve, even if (more like when), you get rocked. You need to find people better than you, and get them into the DA. If you’re a defenseman in hockey, you need to get burned in many 1 on 1’s before you’ll realize what they’re doing to you, and how to counter it. The same logic applies to Aces High, only better. Whereas in a sport you might be hard pressed to find your opponents willing to give advice, in Aces High, most of the good players are so starved for good fights that they’ll offer it in heaps and barrels. Take advantage of this.
9. The most important thing to remember when you’re trying to improve at a sport or Aces High is to have fun and to consider your losses as lessons and not defeats. You can’t be afraid of losing. Your goal should be to hold your own more and more with each passing week until you finally get to the skill level you desire. No one ever held their own by running away.
Also, you need to have a good attitude and be a gracious winner and loser. Since you aren’t good, there’s no reason for you to trash talk at this point anyway, and doing so is just going to give you a reputation of being someone people should squelch rather than help (It’s also going to make you look and feel pretty stupid when someone you mouthed off to destroys you in three turns). Playful chiding with your friends is one thing, being a jerk is another. This world has enough jerks, and I know I for one don’t have much interest in helping them out.
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:salute Lute- fine article. Thanks for posting it.
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To all new player who might read this...
This dude (stephen waldron) has NO IDEA what he's talking about.
Please ignore this thread and tune into a more helpful thread to learn the P-47.
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Stay on mission. Even if you hear someone else SCREAMING for help. Don't trade places with a pilot who got himself into trouble. Nobody is going to clear your six if you do. That's just the way it is in the MA.
Mostly because of people like you.
(I just have to add this... found @ www.netaces.org and with much thanks to Vudak. Steven, this is for you)
So You're Looking to Improve
by Vudak
Waldron, READ that article, it is exactly what you need to do if you actually want to get any good at this game.
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I think this guy is the best troll I've seen in a while. He's got you all hook, line, and sinker.
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I think this guy is the best troll I've seen in a while. He's got you all hook, line, and sinker.
The problem with trolls is the new guys who read the boards (particularly the help and training section) won't know the difference.
Regards,
Hammer
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The problem with trolls is the new guys who read the boards (particularly the help and training section) won't know the difference.
Regards,
Hammer
EXACTLY. Which is why I posted my suggestion, and Lute posted his article.
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stephen waldron
any chance you could offer up some tips on Typhoon tactics?
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can someone please!!!! please cancel this dummies account?
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Do I hear a vote for "violation of probation"? :D
All I have to say is WOW! Any new players reading the first post, disregard this guy's input.
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Do I hear a vote for "violation of probation"? :D
All I have to say is WOW! Any new players reading the first post, disregard this guy's input.
I second that motion. He is deliberately trying to misinform people. Waldron, please refrain from posting garbage in this forum, it is here to help new player progress.
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Yes please refrain from disrespecting my beloved jug with garbage. :mad:
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I'm doing this only because I disagree with the content of the post.
Better idea. If you're in any model except a P-47D-11, you're not in a fighter plane,(they got that much right). Stick to your tactical bombing mission. Your mission is not to drop your ordinance in the ocean and tangle with fighters. The first priority, is to fly away, and head to an alternate target and drop your bombs on something that counts.
Wrong. All aeroplanes in Aces High are capable of being used as fighter planes successfully. The P-47 is no exception. If you don't feel you are capable of using your Thunderbolt as a fighter (and you don't want to learn how to do so), then the speed you gain in your bombing dive will almost certainly allow you to escape far faster (and further) than any enemy will care to pursue you (unless they dived as well).
In addition to this, the P-47 was used during World War II as a fighter with great success. Read Robert S. Johnson's book Thunderbolt! if you want an excellent read about this.
I know everybody is going to say the enemy fighter will just chase you down and kill you. He certainly WILL if you waste precious seconds thinking about attacking him before you make this decision. Bug out with your ordinance while he's still a tiny black at extreme range. He probably won't even see you, especially if there are other planes closer to him.
See my above comment please.
Stay on mission. Even if you hear someone else SCREAMING for help. Don't trade places with a pilot who got himself into trouble. Nobody is going to clear your six if you do. That's just the way it is in the MA.
Hmm. I wouldn't be so sure of this. Given stephen waldron's terrible reputation on this Bulletin Board, and assuming that his in-game name is similar to his BBS name, then I'd say this person is a terrible judge as to whether other pilots are willing to help him out.
Don't trust friendly fighters either to tell you they are LEAVING. One minute they're there, and the next minute they're GONE. I generally check the clipboard after every attack run to see who's running away. You'll be over a flashing target for quite awhile. It takes some time to empty the ord on a P-47.
a) Pilots don't always say "RTB", or "heading back" etc. Sometimes they do, other times not.
b) How in the world can you tell if someone's running away with your clipboard? Unless you stare at it for about a minute, by which time someone's probably gotten on your 6 and blasted you out of the sky anyway, making who's running away and who isn't somewhat irrelevant.
c) Yes, you will be over the target (flashing?) for a while if you're going at 200 mph. However, if you dives bomb, and pull out at 500mph, those 12.5 miles of radar will be past 90 seconds later (assuming you stay at precisely 500mph and fly straight away from your target).
d) If you move your fingers quite quickly, and have the game salvo your ordnance automatically, you can get rid of your 3 bombs and 10 rockets (I think it's 10) in 0.65 seconds. If you think that 0.65 seconds is "some time", then you're playing this game from the wrong planet.
Dive bombing ? You don't want to experiment with that against targets that shoot back. Not in the beginning.
Well what will you "experiment" against with it then? Trees?
Level bombing at 2 thousand works just fine against undamaged and lightly damaged factories. Just wait till the nose of the icon of your plane breaks the icon of the complex on your clipboard map.. and bombs away.
a) Please define "just fine".
b) I worked out a formula for doing level bombing in Mosquitoes and Spitfires, and in practice it took too long to set up, but worked excellently. HOWEVER, your aimpoint was actually part of your plane, not something on the clipboard.
c) 2,000 feet is NOT out of the range of ANY kind of anti-aircraft fire. 2,000 feet = 600 yards (roughly), at which range a level-bombing aircraft will be easily shot down by ANY manned (or automatic) Anti-Aircraft fire - Ostwinds, Wirblewinds, M-16s, even M-8s and M-3s will be shooting at you.
Also, level bombing from such altitudes means that your enemy is shooting at a MUCH larger profile of your plane (its entire bottom surface) versus when you dive bomb (where only the FRONT profile is a target usually). Also, you're going slower (usually) in level bombing than in dive-bombing, which means you spend more time over your target.
d) What magnification are you using on your clipboard? Also, what speed are you going at?
Don't worry. Nine times outta ten you're gonna hit something. There are plenty of targets down there.
Yeah, there's thousands of trees down there that'll be absolutely delighted to receive your 1,000 lb bombs.
Strafe the AA guns after you get your bombs and rockets off.
Since when have trees had anti-aircraft guns...?
The rockets are way too inaccurate for new pilots to waste trying to hit AA positions with. Your guns are way MORE accurate than the rockets. This is imperitive to remember against nme airfield and town AA, as it will be shooting back at you while you are attacking. But don't fly against these targets in the beginning until you get the bugs worked out.
a) Bollocks
b) So, how do you do level-bombing with rockets...?
c) You misspelt imperative
d) I thought you just said not to hit "targets that shoot back" with dive-bombing. So it is fine to do another form of bombing that leaves you far more vulnerable to ground fire than dive-bombing against targets that shoot back? I won't bother going into any more detail about contradictions here.
Forget about armored targets too. Especially if the tank is stopped. In all likelihood, the guy is sitting in the AA machinegun position with the crosshairs on you just waiting for you to make that mistake. If he's running away at full speed, unless he's crazy, he's probably driving the tank and focused on where he is going. This is a good candidate for rockets.
To anyone reading this who doesn't know how to dive-bomb quite accurately:
go into the Training Arena and ask a trainer to help you dive-bomb well.
For now just concentrate on easy targets and bringing your plane home without damage so you can put together some experience and multiple missions in a single sortie. That's where the score is.
If you can't resist dive bombing CV's. At least pick the ones that are already damaged. Odds are some of the flak will be knocked out. Maybe flight ops as well. That equals a "Soft" target. Which is your preferred target as a beginner.
This actually isn't bad advice. Whilst I would argue that all targets are difficult, some are definitely easier than others. However, worrying about score so much is unproductive in my opinion. Whilst the stats that make up your score (on the Clipboard go to "Roster", find your name, right click and select "Score") can be useful to check on how well you're doing overall, thinking about your score in a competitive isn't helpful, especially if you're a newer player.
Occasionally the enemy will come after you in a 262. The counter tactic to this is simple. When you see the nme DAR bar light up in your sector, it's time to go. Level out and hit your WEP alternating every 20 seconds so it don't run out.. and head for home. You'll be sitting in the tower drinking coffee when the 262 flies over. How do you know the DAR bar is a 262 ? You don't, but you assume it is.
Whilst I've never heard of a 262 specifically coming after a P-47, there is no way that you will be able to outrun one unless you dive (and even then it can almost certainly outrun you if it dives as well). I've found that break turns can be useful against a 262 just before it shoots, but correct me if I'm wrong on this please. Also, I disagree with running every time you see a red darbar.
So, sorry for being a jerk, but a lot of this post was so wrong I felt I had to correct it.
<S>
Yossarian
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:O :confused: :rolleyes:
... if I only had a brain...
(http://atangledweb.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/scarecrow_oz.gif)
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BNZ. It's the end of the month and i've got a 900 attack scrore. People tell me anything under a thousand is fairly respectable. I know your going to have some childish snotty remark prepared.. so i'll just ingnore you.
You guys might as well stop posting garbage. Everybody knows you are fighter jock trolls trying to keep the new pilots in the dark. You're not fooling anybody. In fact.. When you attack good advise, you make it very plain this is EXACTLY what you are.
You are insulting the intelligence of everyone who reads the thread.
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BNZ. It's the end of the month and i've got a 900 attack scrore.
Yup those toolsheds are crafty the way they sit there and..... oohh wait that's it, they just sit there.
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BNZ. It's the end of the month and i've got a 900 attack scrore. People tell me anything under a thousand is fairly respectable. I know your going to have some childish snotty remark prepared.. so i'll just ingnore you.
You guys might as well stop posting garbage. Everybody knows you are fighter jock trolls trying to keep the new pilots in the dark. You're not fooling anybody. In fact.. When you attack good advise, you make it very plain this is EXACTLY what you are.
You are insulting the intelligence of everyone who reads the thread.
So you are saying that the people telling you to practice, train, read, study and work hard are just trying to "keep you in the dark".
(sigh)
You have been given some most excellent advice from some of the best and/or most knowledgeable players in the game. (in various threads)
These players have years (and some decades) of experience who are able to do with ease the simple things you can't quite pull off. (like how to dive bomb in a p47)
Yet they are all "wrong" and you somehow feel you are "right". (sigh)
What exactly IS the name you fly under?
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Case in point where Trainer moderation of Help & Training would be beneficial to this forum. Would be locked if it was my call.
While any offer of help is appriciated and welcomed. At a minimum, one should know the subject matter well enough to offer a pittance of good advise.
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You guys might as well stop posting garbage. Everybody knows you are fighter jock trolls trying to keep the new pilots in the dark.
How about you take a minute to digest some of this? I can tell you right now that almost every one of your tactical suggestions that you posted first are poor choices.
And, if you're going for a good attack score, the P-47 is one of the worst planes to do it in.
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BNZ. It's the end of the month and i've got a 900 attack scrore. People tell me anything under a thousand is fairly respectable. I know your going to have some childish snotty remark prepared.. so i'll just ingnore you.
You guys might as well stop posting garbage. Everybody knows you are fighter jock trolls trying to keep the new pilots in the dark. You're not fooling anybody. In fact.. When you attack good advise, you make it very plain this is EXACTLY what you are.
You are insulting the intelligence of everyone who reads the thread.
So going by your logic, I'm ranked 912, while your ranked 940 in "attack scores" (we won't mention I did mine in 4 hours and you did yours in 20), I am a far better source as an attack pilot :rolleyes: With my vast experience I can say that every thing Stephen said in this thread is wrong. Fighting in the P47 is a great way to dogfight. Don't run away from a fight, and don't "level bomb" with one either :rolleyes: Dive bombing is one of its great traits as it can take a lot of punishment and can handle a few pings from ack, or the guy sitting in is gun position in the GV.
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I am a relativaly new pilot (only flown for a few months, which is nothing compared to some people), and This is THE worst advise I have ever heard. Most of these guys I've seen post great info, But you are telling me and everyone else like me to ignore them and listen to you. If we do, we wont have any fun in the game. EVERYONE HERE WANTS NEW PLAYERS TO GET BETTER. That is why there are trainers, squads, and even a training arena. All of this is avaliable to ANYONE, even you. The only problem is you dont sit down and LEARN.
To everyone who has "attacked this "good" advise" :salute
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So that WAS you in the D-25 on the film?
You could learn a thing or two from a guy named Chevy. You don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a killing gun solution on his P-47, in a 190, unless you sneak up on him.
If your in-game handle is in fact "Waldren", according you your stats, this month you have two, count'em, two, kills in any model of P-47. And 8 deaths. I've bombed more GVs than that in a Jug, and I'm terrible at jabo and hardly ever bomb. This tour, you have precisely six kills of any kind in fighters of any kind. I had more kills than that the first DAY I played this tour. I had more than kills than that the first week I played the game, period. I currently have more kills (7) in a single fighter I haven't upped much lately, the FW190A5, than you have in all fighters. Your single highest item for scored kills is as a ship gunner. You have 18, bully for you. (I have 33. I've also killed more planes (20) with an OSTWIND than you've killed with a 5 inch ship gun.)
So forgive me if I'm not overwhelmed by your "elite" attack rank.
As for the rest:
Any time.
Any where
With anything.
I am quite possibly the worst "fighter jock" posting to this thread.
But still more then enough.
BNZ. It's the end of the month and i've got a 900 attack scrore. People tell me anything under a thousand is fairly respectable. I know your going to have some childish snotty remark prepared.. so i'll just ingnore you.
You guys might as well stop posting garbage. Everybody knows you are fighter jock trolls trying to keep the new pilots in the dark. You're not fooling anybody. In fact.. When you attack good advise, you make it very plain this is EXACTLY what you are.
You are insulting the intelligence of everyone who reads the thread.
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You guys just don't listen, do you ? I DON'T FLY FIGHTERS. I DON'T DOGFIGHT... PERIOD!. I'll do some tactical bombing with a fighter, but that's the extent of my interest in fighter planes. I burned out on that stuff 20 years ago playing "Wings of the Luftwaffe".
In my opinion fighters are largely irrelevant in this game. Sort'a like nats on a fishing trip. They're there, they're annoying, but they really don't have anything to do with whether or not you catch a fish.
Now back on topic. One more trick fighter jocks like to use to catch a working P-47 is to sneak in NOE, Pop-up and shoot you down. The counter tactic to this is simple. Just restrict the amount of time you spend over the target. If you're gone when they get there, they can't shoot at you. It's that simple.
You do this first by limiting the ordinance you take off with. Leave the rockets behind. If you're new, you're rarely going to hit anything with them anyway, except the biggest targets. That will save you making two runs on the target. Next limit your strafing runs. I leave when my guns get down to six or seven hundred rounds. Beleive me, you'll never see an nme fighter if you follow these simple rules. They don't have the speed to get there before you finish your work and leave.
Later on when you attack nme airfields, the operative words are "Fighter Hangers Down". Just hold down the shift key and click on the nme base. FHD and no nme Dar bar = No nme fighters. If any nme fighters are circling the airbase under their own flak at 500 feet, you'll see'em and they're not going to come up anyway. Once again, you just fly off and hit an alternate target. It's that simple.
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Oh i almost forgot. BnZ. You've been reported to HTC for the "law-nerd" remark for flamebaiting in the forum.
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I hope the people in charge (skuzzy) locks this thread. Your advice is laughable at best. Some people actually put thought into their advice posted in this forum. Agent360 spent a lot of time making films and narrating them. Mudr and all the trainers stop in, they are extremely knowledgeable (many have great write ups on the trainers site). Widewing checks the forums and offers technical advice as well as tactical advice. The only person currently posting that is trying to keep new players in the dark is you waldron. It would be best if you would re access the advice you have given, and refrain from posting anymore.
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You're not going to let he fact that you are incredibly ineffective at any and every aspect of this game reduce your posting rate one bit are you?
Oh i almost forgot. BnZ. You've been reported to HTC for the "law-nerd" remark for flamebaiting in the forum.
I tremble in fear of the terrible wrath that Skuzzy will pour down upon me... :rofl
Any second now... :noid
...Huh... :huh
Why don't you try making a voodoo doll of me instead? It'll be about as effective, and might might keep you off the BBS for a few hours. :devil
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In my opinion fighters are largely irrelevant in this game. Sort'a like nats on a fishing trip. They're there, they're annoying, but they really don't have anything to do with whether or not you catch a fish.
Now back on topic. One more trick fighter jocks like to use to catch a working P-47 is to sneak in NOE, Pop-up and shoot you down. The counter tactic to this is simple. Just restrict the amount of time you spend over the target. If you're gone when they get there, they can't shoot at you. It's that simple.
You do this first by limiting the ordinance you take off with. Leave the rockets behind. If you're new, you're rarely going to hit anything with them anyway, except the biggest targets. That will save you making two runs on the target. Next limit your strafing runs. I leave when my guns get down to six or seven hundred rounds. Beleive me, you'll never see an nme fighter if you follow these simple rules. They don't have the speed to get there before you finish your work and leave.
Later on when you attack nme airfields, the operative words are "Fighter Hangers Down". Just hold down the shift key and click on the nme base. FHD and no nme Dar bar = No nme fighters. If any nme fighters are circling the airbase under their own flak at 500 feet, you'll see'em and they're not going to come up anyway. Once again, you just fly off and hit an alternate target. It's that simple.
Waldron, If i may put in my two cents.
Im very much like you in the fact that i like using the P47 for attacking(suprisingly i think thats it)
I don't want to trash you, and your making it hard. Everyone here is bantering with you and you fight back, so if you could please limit your controvercial post to a minimum. You have earned the reputation as "that guy" who knows little but thinks hes the toejam(dont report me pleez)
Ok so u said that fighters are irrelivant in AHII? Well im a terrible fighter (my score is in the 1000's) and i am with a great squad that takes many bases and rarely furballs but nobody i fly with will say fighters are "flies" or "nats" as u called them, even you can ackoledge that the game would be terrible if there was no dogfighting just ppl bombing stuff. weres the fun in that.
And for your tactics. I think you are trying to help ppl who know very little and want them not to become furballers and learn tactics but you are going at it the wrong way. Dont post. the way people get good is by practice so what you do if you actually want to help is go to the MA and just do what you do, anyone who wants help will ask if you are as good as you say you are.
So I hope you follow my advice and maybe you might, in time, make friends if you stop fueling my AHII brothers fire
so I tried not to be mean and i hope i didnt come across as pompous or arrogant in any manner because i didnt mean to
-IAN5440-
ROLLING THUNDER
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Worst advice ive ever heard, you lvl bomb in a p47? funny my bomb site seems to be broken. About everything you said was 100% wrong. And dont try ur little comeback of "another fighter jock trying to put the new people down" because im awful if a fighter. You dont become respectable by being in the 900's in score as you said, you become respectable by having good fights and showing respect to others.
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You guys might as well stop posting garbage.
(http://www.allstarsclan.nl/forums/style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)
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... Leave the rockets behind. If you're new, you're rarely going to hit anything with them anyway, except the biggest targets. ...
:huh :eek:
Actually, rockets are very flexible and easy to use. The only trick is that your aim point moves depending on your range to the target. Many of the custom gunsights have rocket aiming marks, and even on the default gunsight, the bottom edge of the big circle makes a servicable aim point. As you get closer to your target, the aim point gets closer to the middle of your sight. No need to believe me though, you can try it yourself. Either off-line or in the training arena, pick a target on an airfield (ammo bunkers seem to be popular). Work with a single target so you can start to develop a feel for range based on the relative size of the target. Since the rockets leave a nice trail, you can quickly learn where to aim to hit your target. An hour or so of this type of practice will make you effective with rockets.
You can attack with rockets in a relatively flat approach, or in a steep dive like dive bombing. You can salvo them one at a time against soft targets, or in a big bunch against harder targets. You can use them in conjunction with bombs to take out a hanger in a single pass, or you can use them individually against spot targets like base ack. Speaking of ack, they are way better than strafing for taking out ack since you can engage and destroy the ack from outside the ack gun's range. Use your zoom if you need a better view of where you are aiming.
Rockets on a P-47 are :cool: and useful. Bring 'em along!
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Thanks Skuzzy :aok
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Wow and I thought my posts were slightly hated and that people thought i was a noob. :huh
Now to the point. Why not take rockets and why not practice with them. Those ten rockets are at least 1000 lbs of explosives that can be shot like guns at targets and with practice can hit things from a long distance. Also I have an overall ranking somewhere in the 700s and I bet I will find very few people who think I am a good pilot especially in the planes I fly 109s mostly. I can land 5 kills a sortie in a spit 16 but that does not make me a good pilot. If I was a good pilot I would be able to do that in the planes I fly mostly the 109's. Also the way that people like me and ponyace who have been playing this game for less that a year can look down upon you is pretty bad. Not to say ponyace is bad or anything but I'm sure that he is probably not the best out there. I have not got the pleasure to fly with him outside of a few Snapshots.
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Wow and I thought my posts were slightly hated and that people thought i was a noob. :huh
Now to the point. Why not take rockets and why not practice with them. Those ten rockets are at least 1000 lbs of explosives that can be shot like guns at targets and with practice can hit things from a long distance. Also I have an overall ranking somewhere in the 700s and I bet I will find very few people who think I am a good pilot especially in the planes I fly 109s mostly. I can land 5 kills a sortie in a spit 16 but that does not make me a good pilot. If I was a good pilot I would be able to do that in the planes I fly mostly the 109's. Also the way that people like me and ponyace who have been playing this game for less that a year can look down upon you is pretty bad. Not to say ponyace is bad or anything but I'm sure that he is probably not the best out there. I have not got the pleasure to fly with him outside of a few Snapshots.
Not a bad attitude for a new guy. Waldron has been PNG'ed, but jolly good show. I guess almost anyone looks respectable compared to him. Good luck with the K4, and elsewhere <S>
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WOW
I'm not trying to flame or provoke a fight, but this is probably the worst information that I have ever read on the forums. I feel sorry for any new player who reads this and thinks it's advice. The jug, all of them, are great dog fighters. Now I'm not going to tell anyone how to spend their $15, if you don't like to fur-ball then don't. But this post to someone who does not know, this post could shy them away from a great set of aircraft. As for using the rockets, rockets are very easy to use accurately with practice and a good sight. And level bombing using the clipboard....of course you will get some hits on a strat. Strats are extremely target rich in a compact space, it's kinda hard not to hit something. And as for 262's, the jug is my fav for climbing high then picking 262's. I haven't flown the jug much this tour or last I believe, and I'm not very good in it, but a good jug jockey can make a challenge for anyone.
Seriously man set up an appointment with a trainer. The trainers are very good and are generally happy to help. The Jug is a much more capable aircraft than you make it out to be. Once you learn it's capabilities you will find it to be a much more versatile aircraft. And for anyone new reading this looking for advice on the jug disregard the post by Waldron, as it is mostly false and opinionated.
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Good riddance to bad rubbish
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(http://usera.imagecave.com/uptown41/Smack_Noob.jpg)
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Why not take rockets and why not practice with them.
I always carry rockets on the F6F-5. Salvo 3, Delay .05 will give you clean kills on Panzers, Shermans and T-34's with direct hits. That's two extra kills per sortie in the F6F.
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I always deack with rockets. 1 rocket, 1 ack gun. If I can do it, anyone can. :salute
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I know many of you don't like this guy, but honestly, SOME of the things he is saying are very TRUE.
From the stand point of someone who is only interested in putting ord on target or winning the "war". Fighter planes really are irrelevant.
Fighter planes won't win wars. Bombers win wars. Yes fighter planes help defend bombers but by themselves are not the point in an offensive campaign. In real life you really need your fighters to defend bombers. Winning a real war is a measure of resources. You can't afford to keep losing bombers.
You don't have that problem in the games though. You have an unlimited supply of bombers and crews. If one side really wants to win the "war" they don't need fighters. Put hordes of bombers in the air and flatten everything the other countries have. They won't be able to stop all the bombers.
Also yes pretty much all the fighters can operate in Air to Air mode, but many are better at certain things. The P47 is a prime example. It's strength is not air to air engagements. It's a great bomb truck though. If you're looking at the American plane set and want to establish air superiority in a sector over land, the p47 is not the plane of choice. You fly P51's, F4U's or P38's.
If you want to use a fighter though to flatten a strat target then maybe get in a little air to air on your way home. Then you take the P47, or the P38.
From the stand point of bomb first run second the statements he made are true. Though it still begs the question of why take a P47, instead of a medium bomber like the B25, or maybe a light bomber like the mosquito. Ahh it just occurred to me. You're trying to run up your ATTACk score and not your bomber score. Think the mosquito might count as a fighter, I don't remember.
The thing the P47 was outstanding at was close air support. A job which unfortunately we have nearly no need for at all in Aces High II. Maybe one day in the future when we have like Aces High V we will.
Back to the OP, some of his strategies are a bit off. I personally find dive bombing to be much easier and safer than level bombing. YMMV though. He obviously finds it easier the other way.
A lot of the rest of his post though was pretty much right on the money if that is what you want from the game.
If you want to run up your attack score this is definately a great way to do it. You get a lot more points for getting home in your plane alive than for ditching it, or getting shot down. You also get a lot more points for doing a lot of damage in one plane. So getting home and refueling/arming and returning to target is all things you want to focus on, if you're trying to improve your score.
You won't make any friends of the fighter jock crowd, but obviously you're not playing so they will have fun. This is about your fun. (I'm neither condemning nor condoning the behavior at all. As it's not my place to dictate to you how to have your fun.)
Later on once you've mastered this aspect, and are ready to move onto somethign else, then you can learn to dogfight in it. Or maybe learn another plane. it's up to you.
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1. Even in this game, if one side has total air superiority, the other side isn't going to take any bases just sending waves of buffs, jabos, and goons to their deaths. The fact that much jabo in this game is either suicide or milk running does lessen air superiority's importance, but not to the point that fighter cover is irrelevant. The one hole that needs to be closed in this game to make it about air superiority instead of sneaking around to undefended bases is the NOE raid thing...I dunno, maybe radar should extend a-historically all the way to the ground? I mean, NOE can avoid radar, but in reality, it would have been harder to avoid all the personelle on the ground spotting 30 110s at tree-trop level
2. The P-47 is a GREAT b'n'z fighter. I consider the P-47N, the P-51D, and the FW-190D9 to be neck-and-neck in that role. Thing about the Jug, it can beat he latter two in a turn fight, with equal pilots. Yes, that includes the P-51. This is almost certainly incorrect, but that is how HTC has it modeled right now. Yes, it is not by preference a slow knife-fighter, although it can do alot in that role, but if you fly it like it was meant to be flown, you can land plenty of kills. The altitudes we operate at are not ideal for the Jug (at 30K it is THE fighter) and STILL it can do very well.
3. No one said anything against bombing and egress...if someone is actually trying to LAND after a jabo run, that is alot less dweeby than kamikaze jabo/bomb and bail you see alot of times.
4. No need for close air support? GVs and Planes working together is GREAT in AHII...it beats GVs working alone everytime. Here is where air superiority comes in...if one side has air superiority in a given area, their attack planes can roam over that real estate bombing and spotting at will. Flaks don't really present insurmountable problems for really accurate divebombers, but having tanks around to take them out instead is nice.
5. The P-47 CANNOT level bomb to any degree. Not unless you saw a hole in the floor to look through...all effective bombing in the Jug will be dive bombing or "glide bombing" (dive bombing at a shallow angle of descent).
I know many of you don't like this guy, but honestly, SOME of the things he is saying are very TRUE.
From the stand point of someone who is only interested in putting ord on target or winning the "war". Fighter planes really are irrelevant.
Fighter planes won't win wars. Bombers win wars. Yes fighter planes help defend bombers but by themselves are not the point in an offensive campaign. In real life you really need your fighters to defend bombers. Winning a real war is a measure of resources. You can't afford to keep losing bombers.
You don't have that problem in the games though. You have an unlimited supply of bombers and crews. If one side really wants to win the "war" they don't need fighters. Put hordes of bombers in the air and flatten everything the other countries have. They won't be able to stop all the bombers.
Also yes pretty much all the fighters can operate in Air to Air mode, but many are better at certain things. The P47 is a prime example. It's strength is not air to air engagements. It's a great bomb truck though. If you're looking at the American plane set and want to establish air superiority in a sector over land, the p47 is not the plane of choice. You fly P51's, F4U's or P38's.
If you want to use a fighter though to flatten a strat target then maybe get in a little air to air on your way home. Then you take the P47, or the P38.
From the stand point of bomb first run second the statements he made are true. Though it still begs the question of why take a P47, instead of a medium bomber like the B25, or maybe a light bomber like the mosquito. Ahh it just occurred to me. You're trying to run up your ATTACk score and not your bomber score. Think the mosquito might count as a fighter, I don't remember.
The thing the P47 was outstanding at was close air support. A job which unfortunately we have nearly no need for at all in Aces High II. Maybe one day in the future when we have like Aces High V we will.
Back to the OP, some of his strategies are a bit off. I personally find dive bombing to be much easier and safer than level bombing. YMMV though. He obviously finds it easier the other way.
A lot of the rest of his post though was pretty much right on the money if that is what you want from the game.
If you want to run up your attack score this is definately a great way to do it. You get a lot more points for getting home in your plane alive than for ditching it, or getting shot down. You also get a lot more points for doing a lot of damage in one plane. So getting home and refueling/arming and returning to target is all things you want to focus on, if you're trying to improve your score.
You won't make any friends of the fighter jock crowd, but obviously you're not playing so they will have fun. This is about your fun. (I'm neither condemning nor condoning the behavior at all. As it's not my place to dictate to you how to have your fun.)
Later on once you've mastered this aspect, and are ready to move onto somethign else, then you can learn to dogfight in it. Or maybe learn another plane. it's up to you.
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You guys just don't listen, do you ? I DON'T FLY FIGHTERS. I DON'T DOGFIGHT... PERIOD!. I'll do some tactical bombing with a fighter, but that's the extent of my interest in fighter planes. I burned out on that stuff 20 years ago playing "Wings of the Luftwaffe".
In my opinion fighters are largely irrelevant in this game. ....snip
If you don't fly them, what gives you authority to comment on them? My skills are only slightly above average (sad, considering how long I've been at this :frown:) But ALL I fly are jugs, and I usually end up mixing it up down low, and live more often than not. My major grief in life comes from K4's and good f4 sticks--This month, I flew nothing but D25 for 'fighter' runs, and ended up with near 2 kills per sortie (MORE than a few bombers in there, but if they gonna fly em...) D40 for 'attack'---hitting only hangars, gv's or cv's with eggs---no strats-(poor K/D, but ok otherwise) NO reason whatsoever the jug --ANY jug-- cant be your every day ride for any task
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Waldron is correct on all counts. The rest of you twits are noobs!
Praise be to the Waldron (http://usera.imagecave.com/uptown41/Worship.gif)
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2. The P-47 is a GREAT b'n'z fighter. I consider the P-47N, the P-51D, and the FW-190D9 to be neck-and-neck in that role. Thing about the Jug, it can beat he latter two in a turn fight, with equal pilots. Yes, that includes the P-51.
Gotta disagree with your on that one. I tried turn fighting a P-51D on the deck in a P-47N this camp and he made mince meat out of me within 5 turns.
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Gotta disagree with your on that one. I tried turn fighting a P-51D on the deck in a P-47N this camp and he made mince meat out of me within 5 turns.
well bring that fight up 18k and the 47 will win that turn fight
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A P47D-11&25 will out turn a pony but the D40 and N won't. I've got 10 kills on Jugs this tour and was only killed by 4. Above 10k or so I really have to struggle with them. Below that, I usually don't have much trouble killing them with my pony. :salute
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Gotta disagree with your on that one. I tried turn fighting a P-51D on the deck in a P-47N this camp and he made mince meat out of me within 5 turns.
You were probably a good bit heavier than he was. Or, no offense, that pilot was having a better day than you. The fighter comparison websites show the P-47N with a smaller flaps out radius than the Pony. And it is easier-handling on the edge of a stall. This is a pure angles fight of course. If the Pony uses his superior climb to e-fight you, could be more problematic. But I suspect most players think the P-51 easily out-turns the jug (which it really should), whereas, the Jug has a slight edge, and this assumption gives you another edge right off the bat.
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A P47D-11&25 will out turn a pony but the D40 and N won't. I've got 10 kills on Jugs this tour and was only killed by 4. Above 10k or so I really have to struggle with them. Below that, I usually don't have much trouble killing them with my pony. :salute
D-40 should turn the same as a D-25 since it practically weighs the same. In a sustained fight, it probably out turns the D-25 due to the increased engine power on WEP.
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D-40 should turn the same as a D-25 since it practically weighs the same. In a sustained fight, it probably out turns the D-25 due to the increased engine power on WEP.
I stand corrected sir. According to gonzos fighter comparison the D-25 with no flaps has a tighter turn radius by only about 12'.And with full flaps the D-40 edges the D-25 out by a hair. basically no difference.
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I haven't looked at DokG's in awhile, what were the numbers for the N vrs the D-40? I know the N weights 650 lbs when both planes are loaded for the same flight ime (28 minutes, 50% for the N and 75% for the D-40) but one would think the larger wing and extra power on WEP could make up for it abit in a turning contest.
You know, I don't want to drag this too far off topic, but according to DokG's fighter website, even the 190 D9 turns a smaller circle* than the P-51 with flaps out...with its much higher wingloading and three notches of split flaps, as opposed to the the Mustang's maneuvering flaps. Anyone STILL think there is nothing screwy with the P-51's turn radius. *Yes, I realize this is not practical in actual maneuvering against Mustangs because the 190s flaps come out at such a slow speed, but still, interesting data point.
Did some interesting math based on DokG's turn radii too. Most planes seem to have there turn radii reduced by 24-26% by full flaps vrs no-flaps radius. This was the case with the Jug, and the 38, and the Fw-190 One would think that the Fowler flaps of the 38, which actually increase wing area, would be more effective than the Jug's, and certainly the 190s. Not the case in AHII apparently. The Corsair has gets a 40% reduction in turn radius through flap usage!
But the P-51's turn radius was only reduced by 19% with full flaps.
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Fighter planes won't win wars. Bombers win wars.
thats a very 1930's doctrine, by the start of WWII most airforces had realised the vital importance of air superiority. The BoB is a classic example - simply put it was won because the Luftwafe couldn't suppress fighter cover over Britain enough to let bombers and ultimately a ground invasion succeed. same in AH, moreso in fact because bombing an airbase in AH stops fighters upping for 15mins rather than a couple of days IRL.
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Although Air Superiority is important, it won't in and of itself win a war. You have to remove the other sides ability to wage war and force them to surrender. Fighters can't do that. Once you've swept the enemy from the sky, there's nothing left for fighters to do. (Except become bombers.) The thing that fighters do is lower your casualty rate. Helping you win more easily. Other than that though they don't do anything else. Once fighters start shooting at targets on the ground they're no longer being fighters. They're now bombers/attack planes.
Also the BoB was not won due to Germany's inability to suppress British fighters in the air. It was won for Brittan when Germany STOPPED bombing British airfields and shifted to the cities. They stopped bombing and allowed Brittain the resources they needed to continue fighting. When the Germans STOPPED BOMBING it bought time for Britain which Germany couldn't afford due to their land war against the Russians. Hitler didn't see the mistake in time and they canceled their invasion plan.
Take the gulf war as another example. The prime example of a war won from the air. It wasn't the coalitions ability to sweep Iraq's air Force that won it. It was all of those Aircraft putting ord on targets on the ground.
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Air superiority isnt important, its vital. I'm not saying that fighters alone can win a combined ops war, I'm saying you cant win one without them. like BnZ said:
1. Even in this game, if one side has total air superiority, the other side isn't going to take any bases just sending waves of buffs, jabos, and goons to their deaths. The fact that much jabo in this game is either suicide or milk running does lessen air superiority's importance, but not to the point that fighter cover is irrelevant.
as for the BoB, do you honestly think air superiority had nothing to do with it? IIRC Hitler STOPPED bombing airfields and started on London because he thought RAF fields had been degraded enough that he would have more fighters than the RAF in the air to allow the bombers to do their work. sounds alot like air superiority to me...
put it another way, how well do you think the BoB would have gone for Britain if we hadn't upped a single Hurricane or Spitfire?
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I took parts of my post out as I didn't want to veer too far off topic. But to be more precise on the fighters lower casualties point. They do that on both offense and defense. Defensively fighters shoot down bombers which defends your side, allowing you to continue to fight for longer.
In the BoB the British fighters were able to slow down the German advance. They were able to win a battle. But not the war in that way. Britain did not have the resources on her own to take the fight back to Germany in sufficient strength. They were also never able to achieve air superiority during the battle. They simply made it costly for the Germans who then blundered their battle plan. Even then it wasn't so costly that the Germans could not continue the fight. They simply chose to stop, which in turn was another mistake, as on paper they were winning the BoB when they left the field. They just didn't know it at the time.
It was really the axis choice of target's rather than the allies fighters that won the BoB. Had the Germans continued their original tactic of attacking british airfields and manufacturing they would have prevailed. At the same time, had they made the British radar network a priority target rather than one of opportunity they would have been able to range more freely without as much fear of intercept. Radar was relatively new though and wasn't part of the battle plan.
To put this in Aces high terms. If you're taking a base and don't knock out the anti aircraft defenses, (Fighter Hangers/Vehicle Hangers/AAA) you're going to be in for a very tough fight. Knock those out on your first run and you've taken away their ability to defend themselves. (This was germany in the BoB, they failed to knock out Britains ability to defend herself. They essentially dropped their ord on the city but left one fighter/vehicle hanger up. :), but no one upped a transport, and as they all circled there the brits were able to keep upping fighters and the germans ran out of steam as they eventually started getting bored and logged off. :)
Alternately an even better defense for your base is to fly out yourself in your own bombers and knock out the ord and bomber hangers of the attacking base. Then they really can't attack you much at all. You've taken away their ability to wage an offensive war. This was the allied push after the americans joined the war. The bombing campaign started knocking out germany's ability to bring the war forward.
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As for the quote from BnZ, yes actually yes they will win with hordes of bombers attack and JABO planes. Especially in aces high where the supply of attacking planes is unlimited.
You can't stop all of those attackers with even numbers of fighters. In the game the bombers will eventually win that match up. As the fighters will keep running out of places to launch from.
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Or a couple heavy fighters can pork the ord and now:
:cry :cry :cry :cry
No bombers!
:rofl
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The premiss of the debate is that capturing territory, and winning the war is the whole point of the game. HiTech has stated many times that Aces High is about accurately simulating WWII planes and vehicles. The war aspect is to promote combat between those simulated planes and vehicles. AH is not a war simulation, it is a combat simulation. The difference (among many) is that players with the mindset of a total war simulation tend to avoid combat. Which is the antithesis of what AH is about.
HiTech also created the ranking/score system for AH. To have the top overall ranking one must perform well in air to air, air to air with ground attack, ground to ground or ground to air, and bombing. Performance vs enemies carries 50% or more weight out of 3 of the 4 categories (combat).
True to life, bomber missions without fighter cover, that are intercepted are likely to get slaughtered, and the effectiveness of the bombers achieving their objective is not always a sure thing in the game. The idea, even with the winning the war mindset, that fighters are irrelevent in AH is completely asinine. In fact I beleive it wishful thinking.
The fact is in the AH community, the only thing that garners universal respect is proficency in air combat. Those that do not wish to put the effort into that can stick their fingers in their ears...ignore it...pretend that is not the case. But I am sorry to inform you that A) This is the way things are back 20 years through AH's predicessors. B) You look like a fool trying to convince everyone else otherwise.
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Actually the premise of the debate isn't about the point of the game. It's about the nature of the aircraft in it, compared to the normal climate of the current game.
Now I understand Combat Tour will be changing many of these aspects of the game. With the mission system and AI led bomber groups.
Until it is finished this is what we have in the game at the moment.
The climate of the game is as a 1st person shooter with aircraft. The planes though are modeled after their real life mission plans and uses.
To give a bit of incentive to these "other" planes, they've been given the backdrop of a little mini war in the hopes of inducing a fight. So these other players who's favorite rides are not the pure dog fighters get in the game and attempt to run an accurate mission based on the characteristics of their aircraft.
They though are looked down on. Simply because the fighter jocks find it inconvenient to chase them down.
Essentially we've just stumbled into the furballers vs war winner debate again.
The War winners have been giving war winning type aircraft, and been given a war like scenario to try and win. They only get three choices of play though.
They can tool shed, trying their best to hit targets and return home, by hitting targets away from where the fur ballers are.
Many of them though also crave the plane on plane action. They want to be challenged in the air while trying to accomplish their mission. The fur ballers won't chase them though so what do they do. They fly bombers and attack craft at the bases the fur ballers are using to play counterstrike. This of course just ticks off the fur ballers, who are usually unprepared to fend off a realistic attack, lose their easy to use fur balling bases and cry foul. Or they can turn off their logic chips, and essentially fly out as fodder for the fighter guys. They go out to do their mission but purposefully either ingress or egress incorrectly.
This has been playing out in the AvA arena. They're trying to play out a greater war scenario, but people keep getting stunned at how inconsequential the fighter planes are to winning a war given the mechanics of the AH-II system. People are bored and they stop playing.
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The point is that guys like this OP who's name I have forgotten are a bit of a minority. (They might not actually be. There's no telling how many more players the game would have if it catered to a wider fan base than just the fighter jocks. "Hence the development of Combat Tour")
Anyway he's in such a minority that it seems pointless to attack him for advising people in this manner. Which is actually closer to what a real P47 commander would tell his brand new pilots in an actual theater of war. Of those that stick around I doubt very many will stick long term to this style of play. They'll either advance on later to try and master other aspects of the game the way most players do, or they'll get bored and leave, which is what they would have done anyway.
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Anyway he's in such a minority that it seems pointless to attack him for advising people in this manner. Which is actually closer to what a real P-47 commander would tell his brand new pilots in an actual theater of war.
Not even a little bit close! Lets examine it point by point:
-They told their recruits that he P-47 was NOT a fighter plane? Under any circumstances?
Not on your life, many is the time P-47s skinned ords to FIGHT and WIN in WWII. Like anybody else flying in the Pursuit category, Jug pilots would be trained to fight A2A.
-NOT to divebomb, but to attempt to LEVEL-BOMB in a Jug?
Laughable. Without any sort of level bombing sight, you're doing well if you can hit the AIRFIELD straight and level from high altitude in a Jug.
-Don't attack GVs?
It was called a tankbuster in its day. Really, any bombing duty BESIDES tankbusting is better carried out by a formation of heavies. And Waldron apparently doesn't know that tanks cannot shoot back effectively at dive-bombers in this game....
-Only attack undefended targets/milk run?
Good work if you can get it. :rofl And on most missions, WWII pilots couldn't!
And finally, the most precious belief, that a 262 upping from a base you just bombed presents some kind of a threat to a Jug...uh, hello, what it presents is a vulching/semi-vulching opportunity on an aircraft that is nearly helpless on takeoff, landing, and the acceleration phase of flight.
"The first time I saw a jet, I shot it down"-Chuck Yeager
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I wasn't going to reply, because this thread should be left to wither and die, but it's been bumped yet again. So...
This is the help and training forum. This thread offers neither (excluding the overwhelming setiment to ignore the initial advise). Please, let it die. Please, take the aircraft discussion to the appropriate forum. I am really going to cop an attitude if I have to call in the big guy on the same thread twice.
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I wish I new how to post films :mad :frown: My squad specializes in one pass hanger drops.In jugs mind u.. The reason why we do it in 1 pass with 2 thousand pounders and six rocket salvo...For 1 reason total base suppression- Second reason to have ord left over for the town.If everything goes right we would have 4 rockets and one five hundred pounder left...The rockets for town ack and 500 pound bombs for any pesky gvs that made it out of the vh. We also like to start our bombing run from 10 to 12k for maximum energy retention.To drop a hanger on the first pass takes a pretty fair amount of accuracy.The way all my squad mates learned that is through long hours of practice.I am very proud of the dedication my squad mates have put into that particular area of squad training.The most senior member in my squad besides myself and one other has only been playing for 7 months..My point is that I hope no one looking to learn anything about a jug dont read the garbage posted by ding dong..I mean stephen :salute By the way rockets are great for deackin :rock
I no there are probably better ways to use a jug than our squad SOP.. Just the way we do it :salute