Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Banshee7 on July 12, 2008, 03:39:38 PM
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As a request from a fellow AHer in another thread..i was asked to start a thread asking this question to get a response from everyone. So the question is as follows:
What's the point in chess piece loyalty in a game? We all have the same priviliges. So what's the difference?
Enlighten me
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I just wish I could be cool like everyone else. :frown:
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I would propose that it's not the loyalty to the chess piece, as it is the loyalty to those that fly under the chess piece colors.
Way back when Air Warrior was murdered, the squads migrated to AH and converted themselves to chess pieces instead of just letters. ( Az Bz and Cz ) These squads bonded in the realm of the new world and faced two adversaries whenever they took off, their opponent and the new game.
This bonding led to a kindred spirit that still lives on today, though perhaps not as intense as it once was.
That would be one reason.
Another is that, by human nature, we must hate and despise something. For some, it's easy to direct that at a global entity such as a chess piece, while others direct it towards behavior or traits of other participants. ( toolshedders, furballers, HOers, Runners, LGay drivers .. etc )
There are those that do not simply view the country as a random grouping of players, but as a total team that should be encouraged to behave as a single entity with a common goal and objectives. To leave one team to play for another could be considered heresy.
But, as with any definition of a sub culture, there are those that some of these apply to, and those that none of these apply to.
However, I would bet a lot of folks fall into at least one of those categories.
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Difference? There is no difference. Is the plot that’s count. You create a path in your mind and it’s up to you if you are going to follow it. It’s all about If you are going to be faithful in your mind plot or not. Take it as you wish.
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knights r the best
-BigBOBCH
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If the people I like to fly with always fly under the same chess piece, then there is never any question about which side to join when I log on. Other then that, I don't really see a difference.
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well said APdrone :aok
I would say I have loyalties not to my chess piece but to the people, friends, squadmates and people I have become accustom to flying with. I dont care what you call that group of people they just happen to be named after a chess piece(rook in my case). Part of what makes us friends and squadmates are the fact that we share a common enemy.
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What's the point in chess piece loyalty in a game? We all have the same priviliges. So what's the difference?
The "chess piece" loyalty is no different than any other kind of loyalty. Why not ask..."What's with this school loyalty thing?" or national..party...spousal loyalty?
My opinion having been expressed....too much loyalty in a game of this type can be detrimental to game play. With that in mind, there are players and squads that will switch to a lower number country to attempt to improve game play (contrary to what ROX wants to believe :)). Generally speaking, these are more experienced players and are bored by being on the side with a large numbers advantage. Others simply think it's more fun to fight against the odds.
While I applaud the country ho's for their willingness to try an balance the game play, I will not demean the players that chose to remain "loyal" to a country, squad or just a group of friends, those players bring things to the game just like the country ho's do. In the end, the most important thing to remember is to be loyal to the game.
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The "chess piece" loyalty is no different than any other kind of loyalty. Why not ask..."What's with this school loyalty thing?" or national..party...spousal loyalty?
My opinion having been expressed....too much loyalty in a game of this type can be detrimental to game play. With that in mind, there are players and squads that will switch to a lower number country to attempt to improve game play (contrary to what ROX wants to believe :)). Generally speaking, these are more experienced players and are bored by being on the side with a large numbers advantage. Others simply think it's more fun to fight against the odds.
While I applaud the country ho's for their willingness to try an balance the game play, I will not demean the players that chose to remain "loyal" to a country, squad or just a group of friends, those players bring things to the game just like the country ho's do. In the end, the most important thing to remember is to be loyal to the game.
Good write up :aok
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I look at it the same way I look at life.
When life gets hard do I pick up and move to a new place where things are easier for me or do I stay where I am, dig deep and find ways to do with the tools on hand?
Should I abandon the Chess piece country I have fought won and lost with for years simply because things are not easy?
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I look at it the same way I look at life.
When life gets hard do I pick up and move to a new place where things are easier for me or do I stay where I am, dig deep and find ways to do with the tools on hand?
Should I abandon the Chess piece country I have fought won and lost with for years simply because things are not easy?
I switch for the opposite reason, too much green around, no fun.
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I would propose that it's not the loyalty to the chess piece, as it is the loyalty to those that fly under the chess piece colors.
Way back when Air Warrior was murdered, the squads migrated to AH and converted themselves to chess pieces instead of just letters. ( Az Bz and Cz ) These squads bonded in the realm of the new world and faced two adversaries whenever they took off, their opponent and the new game.
This bonding led to a kindred spirit that still lives on today, though perhaps not as intense as it once was.
That would be one reason.
Another is that, by human nature, we must hate and despise something. For some, it's easy to direct that at a global entity such as a chess piece, while others direct it towards behavior or traits of other participants. ( toolshedders, furballers, HOers, Runners, LGay drivers .. etc )
There are those that do not simply view the country as a random grouping of players, but as a total team that should be encouraged to behave as a single entity with a common goal and objectives. To leave one team to play for another could be considered heresy.
But, as with any definition of a sub culture, there are those that some of these apply to, and those that none of these apply to.
However, I would bet a lot of folks fall into at least one of those categories.
Some goes with their first squad. Even though I'm in a Rook squad now, I like to go Bishop from time to time to fight on RollingThunders vox. Still good friends with all of them.
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The "chess piece" loyalty is no different than any other kind of loyalty. Why not ask..."What's with this school loyalty thing?" or national..party...spousal loyalty?
My opinion having been expressed....too much loyalty in a game of this type can be detrimental to game play. With that in mind, there are players and squads that will switch to a lower number country to attempt to improve game play (contrary to what ROX wants to believe :)). Generally speaking, these are more experienced players and are bored by being on the side with a large numbers advantage. Others simply think it's more fun to fight against the odds.
While I applaud the country ho's for their willingness to try an balance the game play, I will not demean the players that chose to remain "loyal" to a country, squad or just a group of friends, those players bring things to the game just like the country ho's do. In the end, the most important thing to remember is to be loyal to the game.
Well Sir I've tried that......
me and a squadie went rook to help them with BIG numbers from the bish
problem is I rarely see the reverse.....
not sure I care to help when IMHO the favor IS NOT RETURNED!
In fact the rooks did what they usually do when nits were fighting BIG numbers of bish they attack nits too.... often in such cases there is SEEMS to be very little fighting between rooks and bish????............
Lately it as if the rooks WANT the bish to win the reset???????
hmmmm ...
easier kills when your opponent can't up numbers?
hmmm I usually go fight bish cause they usually have the most numbers and often fly what I think of as the DWEEBIEST :D
Gives me pleasure when enough nits can get together to stop the bish cold :) Doesn't happen often but it sure is fun when their BIG number DWEEBY flying attacks are stopped!
DWEEBY... you know they get together MASSIVE bomber groups and bomb the base so nothing can up THEN the come in with 20 or 30 to surpress and then capture a basically defenseless base...
OR they come in with 20 or 30 jabo and you and maybe 5 or 6 other up and kill em all, but soon as you shoot em down they reupped and come back and maybe you shoot em down again BUT pretty soon your low ammo and low fuel and they reupped as soon as you shot em down again and finally they get you as your trying to belly in. Yep they just keep reuppin and dieing and reupping back at you again and sometimes they do this for 30 minutes or more.
OH and here is the BEST part!!! Every now and then one of them MIGHT brag on 200 about how BADA** they are :rofl
Some of em wing well together but ......
Not too bad for padding your perk points as they're often in HIGH value planes :rofl
I guess to them the reset is far more important then their perks or score or flying and fightin ?
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I switch for the opposite reason, too much green around, no fun.
same here :D
plus i like to fight the horde
less players = more perks :)
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I like helping fellow rooks out when they're in trouble, thus often called a picker but it creates a kind of bond between me and that player as I'm sure one day he will return the favour.
I don't find shooting guys that have helped me or vice versa very fun. I switched to bish once stayed there a couple and shot down some of the finest guys i've winged with, ofcourse a friendly <S> was exchanged but I couldn't help feeling stupid afterwards.
For me this game is just as much about team work in a dogfight as it is one on one fights with the enemy. I get just as much satisfaction from helping a country mate come back home safe and land his kills as I do when I land safely and land my kills.
Thats why I stay rook, and so does my squad, since 2000 I believe.
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As a request from a fellow AHer in another thread..i was asked to start a thread asking this question to get a response from everyone. So the question is as follows:
What's the point in chess piece loyalty in a game? We all have the same priviliges. So what's the difference?
Enlighten me
Not a thing to do with the Chess pieces, it's all about flying Rook since the day I started and mates. I've never fllown for any other side.
The war itself,perks,points,eny,score what ever doesn't mean a thing to me.
<S>...-Gixer
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What's the point in chess piece loyalty in a game? We all have the same priviliges. So what's the difference?
Without wishing to come across contrary you may as well ask how long is a piece of string.
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Without wishing to come across contrary you may as well ask how long is a piece of string.
14' 3"
....well....you asked. :lol
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I started Bish, tried the rooks, switched to Knights and was recruited by the Pigs on the Wing. Pigs have always been a Knights only squad. So there is my loyalty in a nutshell. Where the Pigs go, I go.
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A long time ago I was a member of one of the best P38 squads, not so much for their stick skills, but for their attitude.
The Nomads flew for any country that had the fewest numbers and my current squad, the 80th Headhunters do the same. Little surprise since a few old Nomads are within in it... people don't realize they won't remember the good times they had with country A/B/C/Bish/Knit/Rook in the future, they'll remember the fights and the nature their squadron took in the game.
The difference is back in the day people respected the fight and looked to good natured furballs as the key to happiness. Now, base taking is the adopted key to the game and all too often the hordes avoid each other. You literally have 15+ guys attacking on undefended base, while a sector or two away you have the same from other other country.
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The difference is back in the day people respected the fight and looked to good natured furballs as the key to happiness. Now, base taking is the adopted key to the game and all too often the hordes avoid each other. You literally have 15+ guys attacking on undefended base, while a sector or two away you have the same from other other country.
Deli...
The fact that a marvelous combat game has become simply "The Race to Reset" causes me no end of sadness. There was a time when the combat simulation experience was the point for most people. That time is long past. :frown:
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What's the point in chess piece loyalty in a game? So what's the difference?
Enlighten me
None. No difference. I'm a regular country hopper. I log on, switch sides to the side with the lowest numbers and take off. There's great guys on all 3 teams, they are all the same.
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I have nothing against loyality to a country, If the is the route people wish to take. It is quite annoying however to listen to many of these people who believe that because I choose to fly for different teams, that I must be a spy, and when trying to explain your position, in turn you are called a liar. Such are the times with the current AH. People so wound up in this loyality, win the war at all cost, they seem to forget to take a step and remember that is just a game.
At anyrate, I do switch sides, mostly as I don't want to be a part of the game that I dislike the most. Everytime I log on, try to find which team the squad is currently flying with, and if they are not on, i will change to the country with the lowest numbers. Flying with alot of green and only a little red is a pain, you have to race to kill anything, less your kill be taken by someone else. People yelling at everyone else for not checking six (too relaxed in horde), yelling at others for kill stealing, watching for the next potential kill shoot. Next, there is only vulching, which is even more boring. I find it rather fun as well to fly with people who i've previously fought, meet others, catch up with others, all while fighting the evading horde. I don't really understand how others can't at the very least see the appeal of this, but hey, in the end it makes for some fun conversations.
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Deli...
The fact that a marvelous combat game has become simply "The Race to Reset" causes me no end of sadness. There was a time when the combat simulation experience was the point for most people. That time is long past. :frown:
That's obviously the way Dale wants it NB, at least to an outside observer.
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That's obviously the way Dale wants it NB, at least to an outside observer.
PH...getcher butt to the con and we can discuss it. :aok
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I just wish I could be cool like everyone else. :frown:
drive something a little more creative than just another corvette, and ya might be? :D
(it is a nice lookin car though)
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In AW I started as AZ and just never changed. No particular reason at first, but then I joined a squad and the founder left and handed it over to me about a week later. Then it grew to 60 players and 3 wings and there was no changing at that point.
Then I came here and started as a Bish. I guess I've just never seen a reason to change. I'm in a 2 person squad so that's not a factor.
As I see it, the game is cyclical. Sometimes Bish are outnumbered, other times we're the battered houswifes.
It's too much bother to change and I can still meet people from the opposing teams. I just had a really nice conversation with a guy tonight on PM who's Sherman I killed in a Panzer in one shot. I get those a lot (nice post encounter PM conversations with opposing players... I even try to help them and offer advice if they are n00bs).
I don't see it as chess piece loyalty... I just see it as "why bother".
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I am going to thoroughly answer this question while attempting to refrain from delving too deeply into human psychology.... ;)
First off a little history. I believe it's important to fully understand the phenomena of country loyalty to reiterate some of what APDrone pointed out. By far, the vast majority of original players of AH migrated from Airwarrior which, for those who don't know, was a very well established game. Airwarrior had been around in one incarnation or another since the 1980's, it is the progenitor of this entire genre of massively multi-player online WWII combat flight sims. In fact in Airwarrior, prior to being destroyed by Electronic Arts, it was not uncommon to have several thousand people playing everynight in the various arenas of which there were more than a dozen (as opposed to the several hundred people we have in AH nightly across only a few arenas). In Airwarrior it was very uncommon for people to switch countries, most people were in a squadron which was likewise typically loyal to their respective countries with very few exceptions (ie: Nomads). When we all migrated to AH upon Airwarrior's decline/demise we simply brought that ingrained culture with us. For example, I was Bz in AW-Full Realism, 99% of my compatriots that I had flown with for years and years that came to AH became Rooks, not consciously mind you, we just naturally coalesced there.
So, when AH got into full swing, even though it was a new game, the community and culture was quite mature and established. Now fast forward from the latter 1980's to 2008 and you have 20 years of accumulated natural human propensity fullfilling the, "Birds of a feather flock together", axiom. Obviously, not everyone that came to AH came from Airwarrior, and not all of those that did migrate from Airwarrior still play AH, but they did and still do form a predominantly loyal core or backbone of each country in AH. It's actually fascinating, but most of the Az I knew in AWFR are Bishops in AH, most of the Cz I knew are Knights, the Bz are Rooks and you guessed it, they all tended to approach the game in a subtley unique way in AW just as they do to this day in AH. Because they still retain a unique "flavor" the countries tend to attract and retain those same like-minded souls they did years ago, even people that weren't alive back when this "culture" was first established.
Now, we have likeminded people magnetically gravitating toward each other over the years and continually, but why? In an openended massively multi-player combat game with a compelling social component it is human nature to want to collaborate and cooperate in endeavors you enjoy and at the same time not feel obliged, by virtue of necessity or peer pressure, to participate in activities you do not enjoy. Compound that with the fact that the adversarial multi-player combat environment does not reward people who attempt to operate in isolation from or in strategic contradiction to the goals of the majority...
Here is an example of this I will distill and simplify for the purpose of illustration....
There is a fight between two bases. Ten people from country X decide to attack country Y. Nine from country X like to up heavy fighters with ordnance with the intent of assaulting the enemy airfield and one of them always ups a light fighter with the intent of interdicting the CAP of the opposing team (furball). So, country X's force of 10 planes gains 15k'ish alt then turns to proceed toward the enemy base. Along the way they see the 10 bandits from country Y at 12k with unknown intentions. Unknown to country X's contingent, nine of country Y's fighters are looking to engage CAP fighters (furball) while only 1 is laden with ordnance for ground attack on their airfield. So, the one light fighter on country X boldly engages the 9 CAP fighters of country Y while his nine heavy countrymen ambivalently proceed to their target intent on ground attack. Naturally, our poor lone light fighter friend from country X does not last long against the nine furballers of country Y. He is deeply saddened his heavy teammates did not jettison their ordnance and help him fight. Likewise, the lone heavy fighter from country Y, although making it to his target, cannot do enough alone to cause appreciable damage to country X's airfield. He is very sad his countrymen did not choose to come heavy and help him level the airfield.
Eventually country X's one light fighter jock will seek to join his fight-centric brethren on country Y as he is not having much fun being left to fight alone against heavy odds. The lone heavy fighter on country Y gets tired of getting no help destroying enemy bases while his mates "mindlessly furball", he inevitably joins country X to be with his egg toting soulmates. Now, rinse and repeat this scenario ad infinitum with 100 times as many participants in similar proportion then extrapolate that over a timespan of months and years, the outcome is clear and self re-enforcing.
Another salient factor that tends to foster country fidelity is a lot simpler to understand, familiarity. The key to understanding the importance of this is to acknowledge that 90% of the air to air kills are obtained by 10% of the pilots. That 10% are disproportionately effective for a myriad of reasons ranging from experience to sheer hours played. But, one of the most important contributing factors in this complex and fast paced combat sim is the cooperative employment of tactics and communication. It is possible to achieve this level of efficiency borne by cooperation and communication in only a few ways...
1) You fight with an established wingman virtually all the time who knows your every move and vice-versa and you communicate with him intimately during a fight.
2) You fight with a group of proficient squadmates most of the time that communicate and cooperate very effectively while fighting.
3) You fly more or less alone but are very familiar with the cast of characters that tend to fly when you do and you communicate with them in a fight. In fact, you have grown so familiar with them you have a good idea who is useless in a fight, who has great or poor aim , who can recognize a setup, who tends to rope or drag and those that tend to avoid fighting altogether until they get their ordnance delivered etc...
Obviously, reason #1 and #2 could be achieved regardless of whether you switch countries or not, provided your friends follow you around and always play when you do. Reason #3 however, can practically only be achieved if you remain on one country. Unless you play 300+ hours a month and are endowed with superhuman memory it would be almost impossible to gain that requisite degree of familiarity with the thousands that play monthly for the three countries. It is much more realistic to achieve this level of familiarity with just one country's denizens.
In conclusion, I made every attempt to express my thoughts as objectively as possible, without personal bias. I am not advocating country switching or fidelity. But, I am a firm believer that each country has a core of players that never switch and conduct themselves in a unique way, which happens to be substantiated statistically. While there may be vestiges of a "country's uniqueness" ubiquitously present to a varying degrees across all countries, there is a predominance of behavior that resonates from the non-transient core giving each country its pervasive "flavor". That unique country "flavor" oscillates within only a very narrow range over time largely due to the influx of as yet, "uncultured" new players oblivious to their future play-style proclivities, the out-flux of more seasoned players to countries aligned more closely to their particular 'fun factor' and players/squadrons that habitually switch countries on a whim, for balance reasons or on a rotation basis.
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I think APDRONE said it as close as it's gonna get.
For me the games about Teamwork, Honor and Respect.
I enjoy accomplishing common goals with the squad and side I chose to fly with.
The DA is a totally different story. The side with the least amount of players always catches my attention.
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Chess peices are sooo last year. HT really should replace them with the numbers 23, 54, and 76
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What's the point in chess piece loyalty in a game? We all have the same priviliges. So what's the difference?
Enlighten me
aint none.
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I fly for knights since I started teh game. It give me something to play for, I dont give a flyign crap about air combat. I like flying for my squad which is knight, and the bonding I have with my squadie is more rewarding then the country hoping I guess. I enjoy ganging, and getting gang while being knights. I do sometime hop onto which ever side that needs help at TT. Such as when rook took the biship base at TT, I went biship trying to help get that base back. Just my 2cent.
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I love Lamp
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Hmmm the questions screams supposition.......... Think of it this way.... If every one switched chess pieces what would be the point to switching chess pieces? You only have two options.. randomy pick a side or pick one based on criteria.... which everyone has already done...
Id like to see some one say they pick randomy!!! Its always based on criteria....
Every one that posts these questions always post the question the exsact same way YOU did... "Loyalty to a chess piece" You asks a question that can't be answered..... Can you be "Loyal" to a fence post?
YOu already know dang well your question is bs.... you just want to thro some mud on the wall and hope some sticks...
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I just wish I could be cool like everyone else. :frown:
impossible karaya! but its good that u have dreams :D
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As a request from a fellow AHer in another thread..i was asked to start a thread asking this question to get a response from everyone. So the question is as follows:
What's the point in chess piece loyalty in a game? We all have the same priviliges. So what's the difference?
Enlighten me
I regulary switch countries in the MW to help balance the numbers but frankly, with all the crap I get sometimes I'm wondering why bother? For example, yesterday I switched to Rookies to fly with some friends in the 80th as well has help even the numbers as the Rookies were on the low end. Immediately, I was accused by a few of spying and/or padding my score. One individual became upset when I refused to tell him why I switched because frankly, it's really none of their business but I have made it clear in the past why I switch.
Honestly, the next time the Rookies have the low numbers in the MW arena, screw 'em, they're not worth my time any longer to switch and help out.
ack-ack
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i am currently being a country hopper to low #s side just because it gets tiring seeing the same people all the time. I wanna meet new people and have more fun!
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i am currently being a country hopper to low #s side just because it gets tiring seeing the same people all the time. I wanna meet new people and have more fun!
As an alternative might I suggest a box of condoms and a cab ride to your nearest single's bar? :D
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Too lazy to switch
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As an alternative might I suggest a box of condoms and a cab ride to your nearest single's bar? :D
If i was the same way in RL as i am in the game...i would be tired of my family and leave them to find a new one.
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If i was the same way in RL as i am in the game...i would be tired of my family and leave them to find a new one.
Yea, I was just messing with you. :D Personally, I'll go Knights if they are low on numbers to the point it's detrimental to gameplay or there are no good fights for an extended period as a Rook.
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I kept it simple...
there were only me and *you*