Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DmonSlyr on August 03, 2008, 08:29:11 PM
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i want a real answer and i dont want they cant tax it cause thats a pile of BS. but i just havent been able to figure it out, why is it soooooo bad???? cause its really not compared to alcohol and salvia (legal plant that makes you retarded basically)
but i was wonderin if any 1 knew a real reason why its illigal?
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Just to piss you off.
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Liberals don't want it legalized because then people who rely on it for sustenance would be SOL, Conservatives don't want it legalized for much the same reasons they call stupid when applied to gun control.
Gotta love this country :aok
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1 of the reasons it was originally made illegal was back then there were alot of Mexicans in California that were first there because there was a big labor shortage, but after the shortage was over the Mexicans still stayed, they wanted a way to get rid of them and they knew that alot of them smoked marijuana, so they made it illegal, this is one of the reasons for making it illegal.
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1 of the reasons it was originally made illegal was back then there were alot of Mexicans in California that were first there because there was a big labor shortage, but after the shortage was over the Mexicans still stayed, they wanted a way to get rid of them and they knew that alot of them smoked marijuana, so they made it illegal, this is one of the reasons for making it illegal.
William Randolph Hearst (Citizen Kane) and the Hearst Paper Manufacturing Division of Kimberly Clark owned vast acreage of timberlands. The Hearst Company supplied most paper products. Patty Hearst's grandfather, a destroyer of nature for his own personal profit, stood to lose billions because of hemp.
In 1937, Dupont patented the processes to make plastics from oil and coal. Dupont's Annual Report urged stockholders to invest in its new petrochemical division. Synthetics such as plastics, cellophane, celluloid, methanol, nylon, rayon, Dacron, etc., could now be made from oil. Natural hemp industrialization would have ruined over 80% of Dupont's business.
THE CONSPIRACY
Andrew Mellon became Hoover's Secretary of the Treasury and Dupont's primary investor. He appointed his future nephew-in-law, Harry J. Anslinger, to head the Federal Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs.
Secret meetings were held by these financial tycoons. Hemp was declared dangerous and a threat to their billion dollar enterprises. For their dynasties to remain intact, hemp had to go. These men took an obscure Mexican slang word: 'marihuana' and pushed it into the consciousness of America.
MEDIA MANIPULATION
A media blitz of 'yellow journalism' raged in the late 1920s and 1930s. Hearst's newspapers ran stories emphasizing the horrors of marihuana. The menace of marihuana made headlines. Readers learned that it was responsible for everything from car accidents to loose morality.
Films like 'Reefer Madness' (1936), 'Marihuana: Assassin of Youth' (1935) and 'Marihuana: The Devil's Weed' (1936) were propaganda designed by these industrialists to create an enemy. Their purpose was to gain public support so that anti-marihuana laws could be passed.
Examine the following quotes from 'The Burning Question' aka REEFER MADNESS:
a violent narcotic.
acts of shocking violence.
incurable insanity.
soul-destroying effects.
under the influence of the drug he killed his entire family with an ax.
more vicious, more deadly even than these soul-destroying drugs (heroin, cocaine) is the menace of marihuana!
Reefer Madness did not end with the usual 'the end.' The film concluded with these words plastered on the screen: TELL YOUR CHILDREN.
In the 1930s, people were very naive; even to the point of ignorance. The masses were like sheep waiting to be led by the few in power. They did not challenge authority. If the news was in print or on the radio, they believed it had to be true. They told their children and their children grew up to be the parents of the baby-boomers.
On April 14, 1937, the Prohibitive Marihuana Tax Law or the bill that outlawed hemp was directly brought to the House Ways and Means Committee. This committee is the only one that can introduce a bill to the House floor without it being debated by other committees. The Chairman of the Ways and Means, Robert Doughton, was a Dupont supporter. He insured that the bill would pass Congress.
Dr. James Woodward, a physician and attorney, testified too late on behalf of the American Medical Association. He told the committee that the reason the AMA had not denounced the Marihuana Tax Law sooner was that the Association had just discovered that marihuana was hemp.
Few people, at the time, realized that the deadly menace they had been reading about on Hearst's front pages was in fact passive hemp. The AMA understood cannabis to be a MEDICINE found in numerous healing products sold over the last hundred years.
In September of 1937, hemp became illegal. The most useful crop known became a drug and our planet has been suffering ever since.
Congress banned hemp because it was said to be the most violence-causing drug known. Anslinger, head of the Drug Commission for 31 years, promoted the idea that marihuana made users act extremely violent. In the 1950s, under the Communist threat of McCarthyism, Anslinger now said the exact opposite. Marijuana will pacify you so much that soldiers would not want to fight.
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i want a real answer and i dont want they cant tax it cause thats a pile of BS. but i just havent been able to figure it out, why is it soooooo bad???? cause its really not compared to alcohol and salvia (legal plant that makes you retarded basically)
but i was wonderin if any 1 knew a real reason why its illigal?
Because potheads spell illegal as "illigal".
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It's illegal now because the dealers that sell it contribute big $$$ to Congress to keep it that way and protect their livlihood.
You can sit and whine about it OR you can start deluging your Representatives in support of HR 5843. I'm betting most of the stoners will sit on the couch, eat twinkies and continue to whine, so it will remain illegal.
Representative Barney Frank, D-Mass has sponsored a new bill that would eliminate the Federal penalty for Marijuana possession for personal use. The Bill is also being co-sponsored by Rep. Ron Paul R-TX. It appears the primary reasoning for introducing this bill is because millions of Americans use Marijuana, and since 1960 there have been 20 million arrests for marijuana use and possession. In a day and age when our prisons are so full that the doors swing open for violent criminals, then the courts and penal systems are spending far too many tax payers dollars to prosecute a lot of people who beyond enjoying a little social herb, have not harmed anyone.
The Marijuana Reform Bill HR 5843 will not remove penalties for growing, importing or exporting, or selling for profit the marijuana, but it will remove the penalties for its responsible use. Rep Ron Paul said, "We do not arrest and jail responsible alcohol drinkers". We should not infringe upon the rights of individuals to use Marijuana responsibly as long as they are abiding by the constitutional premise of freedom as long as it does not infringe upon the rights and freedoms of others and the user is not harming others or their property.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/921515/marijuana_reform_bill_hr_5843.html?cat=9
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cause ppl do dumb stuff when they r on weed.....and people use in wrong way..... sure, let ppl wit cancer take it... but thats it..
-BigBOBCH
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Tobacco lobbied for it. It was far easier to control the legal flow of tobacco than marijuana.
The only reason it's not as well linked as Tobacco to cancer is because people generally smoke less of it.
It's every bit as dangerous an intoxicant as alcohol, but it's log term effects are not so damaging. A pothead will eventually regain the use of his brain once he stays off the weed for a few months. An alcoholic is likely to have severe medical repercussions for the rest of his or her life.
The drug industry is also the backbone of organised crime. IF drugs were to be made legal and available, crooked cops, judges and politicians would lose a huge amount of graft money due to sudden disappearance of most organised crime. They cannot legalise marijuana because that would take away their reasoning for prohibition on the other substances too. The truth of the subject is that while the actual number of addicts will not change, (If you're going to make that lifestyle choice the issue of legality is not going to stop you! ;) ) the number of drug related crimes would plummet. Prisons would not be anywhere near as crowded and rehab programs will gain a greater popularity without the added stigma of "illegal" hanging over drug use and Police forces will have a huge drain on their resources lifted.
In a nutshell, although there will be a huge boost in tax related income for the government the enormous cut in related bureaucratic infrastructure will be too much for them to bear. Governments like MORE control over the population, not less.
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cause ppl do dumb stuff when they r on weed.....and people use in wrong way..... sure, let ppl wit cancer take it... but thats it..
-BigBOBCH
You could say the same about alcohol.
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Because potheads spell illegal as "illigal".
:rofl :rofl :rofl
I don't know why heck I'm mean if you want to smoke that crap your already stupid and so no harm done smoking it.
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Well it's because the.......Dude....wait...what was the question again?%#$%# (inhales deeply)
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Because it stays in the bloodstream too long.
If you smoked it on Saturday night, on Monday we couldn't tell if you were stoned or just stupid. :D
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how can you be stupid for smoking weed????? i mean its a plant, it grows on the ground by a seed. making weed legal would open up millions of jobs for people. getting drunk is FAR worse then getting high off weed. if they just made a 4 pack of blunts for $5 the government would make a fortune!!!!! plus yeah some people would grow it. but hey i can grow an apple tree and eat apples all i want without going to the store. but people are lazy!!! they want to get it already made, so i think the government is kidding themselves.
i just dont understand how they can put some 1 in jail and make them spend there life savings over a plant. why not just make them pay a $200 fine and for a dealer that would maybe boost it to $500??? yeah people would still smoke it. but that 200 dollars would suck if you got caught. if they made weed legal i think it would actually decrease crime. HOW? because it would make people more happy and laid back. i bet you if George bush and whoever owns those oil companies smoked a blunt with eachother those prices would go down!!! lol
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how can you be stupid for smoking weed????? i mean its a plant, it grows on the ground by a seed. making weed legal would open up millions of jobs for people. getting drunk is FAR worse then getting high off weed. if they just made a 4 pack of blunts for $5 the government would make a fortune!!!!! plus yeah some people would grow it. but hey i can grow an apple tree and eat apples all i want without going to the store. but people are lazy!!! they want to get it already made, so i think the government is kidding themselves.
i just dont understand how they can put some 1 in jail and make them spend there life savings over a plant. why not just make them pay a $200 fine and for a dealer that would maybe boost it to $500??? yeah people would still smoke it. but that 200 dollars would suck if you got caught. if they made weed legal i think it would actually decrease crime. HOW? because it would make people more happy and laid back. i bet you if George bush and whoever owns those oil companies smoked a blunt with eachother those prices would go down!!! lol
I'm losing faith in the school system.
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i make all As and Bs and have a 3.4 combined GPA and will be a senior in a school with 2600 kids. im as average as they get. im just askin a question that i cant seem to figure out.
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Looks like you failed English.
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Would they accept one of your papers if it was written how you write here?
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i dont try to write proper in here i just try to get the point across as fast as i can.
its a forum i don't care about capital letters and commas.
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Because we all know it takes so long to hit the shift key before your stroke or reach down to the period or comma.
Definitely makes your post easier to read.
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I worked in construction and engineering for years. If you have people working in that field under the influence of any drug and then something goes wrong and they get hurt you can and will lose a lot of money. Worse yet if the project goes off without a hitch but the site has some problem down the road and a citizen or group of citizens gets hurt then you lose everything.
If you want weed to be legal then you may have to recreate American society because we are too litigious a society and there are way to many dumbbutts now!
Consider the people that drive our highways now. Do you really want an even higher percentage out there stoned and driving? Stoned better than drunk maybe but still there will be a higher percentage on the roads. I would not mind if more of them ended up taking the Darwin way out but I dont want my friends and loved ones endangered that way.
Now that I said that though I want to say that I dont have any problem breaking the law to get weed for someone that is sick with cancer and needs it to generate an appetite or to reduce pain. If a loved one has an issue and needs something like that I will get them what they need and the courts and justice system be ******!
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Cannabis, like all controled substances, is illegal simply because making drug busts earns more cash than tax on an equal quantity would. Who really thinks they would incinerate £30,000,000 of product? No government actualy wants their populace to be drug free. Sure they want to keep it out of the middle class because they define the nation on the whole. Half the demand for heroin means half the imports and half the free drugs taken in busts. Alcoholism is more widespread and just as destructive as most narcotics addictions. There is no doubt that when vast sums of money are involved the government will have their own business relationships with certain big time distributors.
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Because potheads spell illegal as "illigal".
:rofl
Beat me to it.
When it's presented like that, the question just answers itself.
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SkyRock's post pretty much outlines why "weed" is illegal. All tho the racial tensions between Latino and white, were spread from California through Texas because of the Illegal immigrants/migrant farm worker "problem", not just California. Also The African American population was targeted for yet more discrimination, because those evil, jazz musicians, who smoked up, would lure white women away from their husbands for indecent and immoral purposes. :rolleyes: :rofl
It is a dang weed, it will grow anywhere with dirt, sunshine and water. It "was" in the Pharmacopia as an analgesic and intoxicant. Before a bureaucrat (Anslinger), wanting to hold on to his job/please his masters, had it ripped out as a "Dangerous" drug, by sneaking a bill past Congress. We already have the laws/policies in place to handle people driving, or showing up to work intoxicated, why would this be any different than alcohol? I'm sure that the prohibition has worked, just like it did with alcohol back in the thirties. We all know that the prohibition on alcohol, strengthened organised crime, and we all know how well that "worked".
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But to answer the original question, why is it illegal? Because there's a law that says so.
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i dont try to write proper in here i just try to get the point across as fast as i can.
its a forum i don't care about capital letters and commas.
Or grammar... It's properly
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Or grammar... It's properly
And with a period.
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And with a period.
You only need a period at the end of a sentance. Since yours is incomplete your use of the period is incorrect.
You know, what we need is a stickified General Grammar and Spelling Discussion Thread.
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Sounds like you're on your period.
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Sounds like you're on your period.
Picasso had his blue period and made a lot of money out of it. I thought I'd give it a try.
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So how's it working out for you so far?
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:cool:
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Have you ever seen a Picasso... on weed?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Homeless420/halfbaked4.jpg)
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Have you ever seen a Picasso... on weed?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Homeless420/halfbaked4.jpg)
I don't remember.
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If you smoked it on Saturday night, on Monday we couldn't tell if you were stoned or just stupid. Big Grin
While it is still detectable in some of your bodily fluids (not saliva) come Monday morning, you aren't still stoned come Monday morning. Unless of course you smoked a bowl when you got up. :D
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Its legal in some places in california, and hey its only illegal if you get caught!
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You only need a period at the end of a sentance.
<cough>
You know, what we need is a stickified General Grammar and Spelling Discussion Thread.
We will get someone else to write it if you do not mind. :rofl
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Never heard of this before so I googled it.
"gardining on salvia" :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVllL4tNZsI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVllL4tNZsI)
What a "trip"
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Its legal in some places in california, and hey its only illegal if you get caught!
It's legal EVERY place in California, by state law we can grow 6 mature plants with a Dr's recomendation. (The price of a Dr's recomendation is about 150.00) With three "cards" you can grow 18 plants- indoor (under 2 1000 watt lights) that'll give you two and a half pounds of bud, every three months.
I'd post pics, but...I better not. :)
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While it is still detectable in some of your bodily fluids (not saliva) come Monday morning, you aren't still stoned come Monday morning. Unless of course you smoked a bowl when you got up. :D
Some construction jobs have a strict substance policy. If on monday you show up with anything in your blood, like alcohol or marijuana, you can be fired.
The bad thing is that if you had 2-3 drinks friday night, alcohol will register on monday morning test.
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i want a real answer and i dont want they cant tax it cause thats a pile of BS. but i just havent been able to figure it out, why is it soooooo bad???? cause its really not compared to alcohol and salvia (legal plant that makes you retarded basically)
but i was wonderin if any 1 knew a real reason why its illigal?
It's not here :D :D :D
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The bad thing is that if you had 2-3 drinks friday night, alcohol will register on monday morning test.
Ahh, were did you hear this, alcohol does not stay in your system that long.
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because it makes you a stoned unproductive slob.
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Been a cop for 11 years...never saw an angry abusive stoned person (on cannabis alone) in my career. Have seen numerous deaths, families ruined, children molested, wives beat, kids beat...etc because of alcohol. I would much rather cannabis be legalized and alcohol be banned. I've grown to hate alcohol and drunks.
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because it makes you a stoned unproductive slob.
Of course it is not YOUR job to ensure that everyone is tidy and productive.
I thought the intent in founding this country was to give everyone a fair shot at success ........ or failure as they so choose.
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I say blame the damn dirty hippies!
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I'd post pics, but...I better not. :)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Themes/camo/images/ip.gif)Logged
Might as well. You ain't hiding....
:D
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I think it should be legal, but to the guy who started this:
Dude, you not doing yourself a favor by getting into pot as a teen. Learn something about life before you make it all a haze.
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because it makes you a stoned unproductive slob.
says who? It affects different people in different ways. I've been around way to many incredibly successful people that smoked pot to believe this drivel. :aok
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says who? It affects different people in different ways. I've been around way to many incredibly successful people that smoked pot to believe this drivel. :aok
Exactly, there are many people who smoke it all the time and you would never know, cause for them its not a lifestyle. Half the ENG department at most software companies prolly smoke it. They just don’t go around talking like an extra from half baked and think its the solution to all life’s problems like the lifestyle losers.
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because Marijuana is from God.
satan who controls this system, and is the "god" of this world, would not want something that can possably bring you closer to the one true God, hence make it a bad bad thing.
so he, satan is much happier with the death and distruction caused by alcohol.
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To be honest I don't have a problem with people who smoke weed. First off you don't hear about people killing others while driving high. Secondly I have never seen anyone high getting into a bar fight at 2:00 am. Thirdly it is all natural unlike LSD, Crack, Coke, Ice, PCP, Crystal Meth, and Ectasy. With hemp you can make clothes, oil, ropes, etc. I think pot should be legal. It would help take the pressure off law enforcement so they can concentrate on getting harder drugs off the street and it would be a source of tax revenue.
Just my 2 cents.... :D
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Firstly, I should be clear that I disagree with prohibition of any kind. However, lets also be clear that cannabis is not without its dangers:
1. Smoking it is every bit as carcinogenic as tobacco.
2. For some people, long term use can lead to dependency and mental problems.
Many people I know - I'd even go so far as saying most - smoked during our younger years. This includes all kinds of professionals including doctors and lawyers. For most it was harmless fun and most have grown out of it. In at least one case I know though, it led to a failed marriage, lost job and time in a metal health institution.
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In at least one case I know though, it led to a failed marriage, lost job and time in a metal health institution.
the sad truth is that the situation may have happened without cannabis. My parents divorced because one of them or both of them were not happy together, my mother's alcoholism was not only a side effect of her unhappiness it also enabled her to continue in a marriage that otherwise would have ended sooner.
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To be honest I don't have a problem with people who smoke weed. First off you don't hear about people killing others while driving high. Secondly I have never seen anyone high getting into a bar fight at 2:00 am. Thirdly it is all natural unlike LSD, Crack, Coke, Ice, PCP, Crystal Meth, and Ectasy. With hemp you can make clothes, oil, ropes, etc. I think pot should be legal. It would help take the pressure off law enforcement so they can concentrate on getting harder drugs off the street and it would be a source of tax revenue.
Just my 2 cents....
Ive known a lot of people that have smoked weed all their lives. They look far healthier then I do.
In terms of crime I'd say weed is probably down there with tobacco. Oh there is some crime from the importation but you never grab perps who just robbed someone to get money for weed. Im not advocating useing it but I do feel it should be decriminalized. I get a laugh when I see these SWAT teams in helicopters descending onto some farm to pull up a bunch of plants. It makes me think on the times the gangs in our high rises would declare their own country for a night, keeping us from getting close with their AKs while we only have pop guns, and barely enough manpower to cover calls for service. :lol All to protect their turf and their rocks, jabs, and blow sales. Its kinda funny when you think of it.
Weve pretty much decriminalized it on our own in the city.
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Rich is right....a gram ain't worth the time it takes to write the ticket. A pound will get you a night in the pokey.
With the exception of DUI, I don't care anymore about pot as I do alcohol. Keep yourself off the road when under the influence.
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Rich is right....a gram ain't worth the time it takes to write the ticket. A pound will get you a night in the pokey.
With the exception of DUI, I don't care anymore about pot as I do alcohol. Keep yourself off the road when under the influence.
Don't ever remember speeding. I do remember going VERY slow down the road though. :rofl
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Liberals don't want it legalized because then people who rely on it for sustenance would be SOL, Conservatives don't want it legalized for much the same reasons they call stupid when applied to gun control.
Gotta love this country :aok
I think I recall my friend talking about a report he did for school about weed, and that South Dakota made weed legal for one day, and that whole day, crime dropped like 60% because everyone was busy getting high... :lol
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It's pretty much already legal here.. Nobody cares and people smoke up in public ALL the time..
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Because potheads spell illegal as "illigal".
Now thats funny :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Hey, if it's good enough for Willie, it's good enough for me.
Now, where's Luckenbach, Texas again?
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diablo, where'd you nic that glamour shot from? :D
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The way the whole "War on Drugs" is waged is proof that our government is run by idiots.
Deterring people from using drugs, and weening off drugs those who can't handle them, is a noble cause... But the way we're going about doing it just does not work at all. When will this be recognized?
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because the retards that go and get high end up shooting a human cause they r imagining them as a lion or somtin lol
-BigBOBCH
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Rich is right....a gram ain't worth the time it takes to write the ticket. A pound will get you a night in the pokey.
With the exception of DUI, I don't care anymore about pot as I do alcohol. Keep yourself off the road when under the influence.
I agree. You can smoke pot all day and you'll only get so high. Unlike alcohol, the more you drink; the more messed up you can get even to the point of passing out, memory loss, and even dying. I would rather see law enforcement do more to control DUI rather than pop someone for a gram of weed....... :)
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because the retards that go and get high end up shooting a human cause they r imagining them as a lion or somtin lol
-BigBOBCH
Step away from the pipe!!!!!
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It is correct that you may be around people who smoke pot daily and you will never know it. You will just think they are stupid with personality flaws. If you were to see the same people after they had quit pot for a few years you would indeed see a difference.
I agree with the cop.. they are very little risk so far as violence unless.. you call running over people or getting into massive wrecks or killing people with machinery "violence" Crane operator on pot killed 4 guys and injured 6 once where I worked.. he was so stoned on pot he could hardly make sentences.
I think it should be free and legal but I don't want to share the road with em.. tests have shown that they do no better in driving skill than drunks.
I don't want to work with em where there is equipment. They can work at some office job where the worst they can do is staple themselves to the papers.
lazs
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It is correct that you may be around people who smoke pot daily and you will never know it. You will just think they are stupid with personality flaws. If you were to see the same people after they had quit pot for a few years you would indeed see a difference.
I agree with the cop.. they are very little risk so far as violence unless.. you call running over people or getting into massive wrecks or killing people with machinery "violence" Crane operator on pot killed 4 guys and injured 6 once where I worked.. he was so stoned on pot he could hardly make sentences.
I think it should be free and legal but I don't want to share the road with em.. tests have shown that they do no better in driving skill than drunks.
I don't want to work with em where there is equipment. They can work at some office job where the worst they can do is staple themselves to the papers.
lazs
True I wouldn't want anyone high operating heavy equipment at work or driving a car either. Just like I don't want those same people taking prescription drugs that make you drowsy doing the same. When I worked at Kodak we had a guy on "painkillers" smack into a steel girder with a 6000lb upright picker. He was lucky he didn't lose a body part or worse.
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Make it legal with similar harsh penalties for operating a vehicle under the influence.
First off you don't hear about people killing others while driving high.
This is false... patently false.
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because the retards that go and get high end up shooting a human cause they r imagining them as a lion or somtin lol
-BigBOBCH
Weed isn't a hallucinogen.
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Id bet that many who end up with problems because of POT usage would have done so anyway, but because they have used pot it for some becomes the reason for their problems.
Plenty of people get mental problems without using any pot but you dont hear anyone saying that they got the problems because they failed to smoke enough pot. :D
Im not that sure its a stepping stone to heavier drugs either given the millions of people around the planet that never goes beyond pot. Those that does were prolly in a risk zone anyway and would have gone to the heavier drugs regardless.
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Weed isn't a hallucinogen.
Don't mind BigBob, he's never done drugs... No one's ever offered them to him :D
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Don't mind BigBob, he's never done drugs... No one's ever offered them to him :D
:lol
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You can ignore most of the garbage after Skyrocks post. His is spot on with the research I've done. You can see pretty quickly after his post the people that have still bought into the propaganda that continues to be publicly funded and dumped on the masses.
Congress has recessed for the summer without voting on the medical marijuana amendment that Congressmen Maurice Hinchey (D-N.Y.) and Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) offer every summer. Unfortunately, this means the amendment will not come up for a vote this year — the first year since 2002.
If passed, the amendment would have prevented the Justice Department — which includes the DEA — from interfering with the medical marijuana laws on the books in 12 states.
Congress decided that rather than considering the Justice Department's annual spending bill, which contains thousands of funding requests and issue-oriented amendments, Congress will instead simply vote to allow this year's funding levels to carry over until next year.
However, there are two other pieces of legislation in Congress that your U.S. House member needs to hear from you about:
1. The Medical Marijuana Patient Protection Act of 2008 (H.R. 5842) would give states greater authority to determine their own medical marijuana policies.
2. The Personal Use of Marijuana By Responsible Adults Act of 2008 (H.R. 5843) would remove federal penalties for possessing up to 3.5 ounces of marijuana.
Check out http://mpp.org (http://mpp.org) for some good info on the fight to legalize.
I found whoever posted above about dealers lobbying to keep it illegal very funny.
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because the retards that go and get high end up shooting a human cause they r imagining them as a lion or somtin lol
-BigBOBCH
Is this kid on crack? I mean seriously!
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Is this kid on crack? I mean seriously!
crack: no
Lsd/Acid: Yes
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It is correct that you may be around people who smoke pot daily and you will never know it. You will just think they are stupid with personality flaws. If you were to see the same people after they had quit pot for a few years you would indeed see a difference.
I agree with the cop.. they are very little risk so far as violence unless.. you call running over people or getting into massive wrecks or killing people with machinery "violence" Crane operator on pot killed 4 guys and injured 6 once where I worked.. he was so stoned on pot he could hardly make sentences.
I think it should be free and legal but I don't want to share the road with em.. tests have shown that they do no better in driving skill than drunks.
I don't want to work with em where there is equipment. They can work at some office job where the worst they can do is staple themselves to the papers.
lazs
Who let that guy at the controls of a crane if he was having trouble completing sentences? If he was only smoking pot he would have been passed out with a bag of chips. Take some advice from someone with more experience in this regards; sounds more like meth. I'm sure his drug tests came back with THC but thats about the only drug that stays in your system more than a day. It's fat soluble.
Tests have also shown people on cell phones are just as if not more likely to cause accidents than someone with a .08 blood alcohol content but we haven't banned them while driving yet.
Glad to see you agree on the legalization part.
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Oh dear, I was a card carrying member of NORML for years. I also worked in a pharmaceutical research laboratory where we were conducting extensive research on various drugs and their affect on human behavior and brain chemistry. I had access to restricted Government and private research reports and data on Marijuana (I cannot disclose specific data). <If you do not enjoy my comprehensive posts stop reading now.>
Marijuana is in fact considered a hallucinogen and a barbiturate (due to its effects rather than its actual chemical composition). The THC content largely determines its hallucinogenic effect, but the most powerful marijuana doesn't even compare to weakest concentrations of LSD-25 or mescalin. Marijuana, unlike almost every other drug is a victim of a property implied by one of its names, "weed". It can grow almost anywhere and can flower several times a year in a wide variety of soils and climates. It is one of the few vegetable based narcotics that can be grown casually by private citizens in sizeable quantities. As Skyrock pointed out, Marijuana criminalization was used as a tool to further politically motivated restrictive government immigration and deportation policies against Hispanics. Later enforcement, especially in the deep south and inner cities, used marijuana criminalization to target African-Americans.
There is proof that like cigarettes, raw, unprocessed Marijuana vegetable matter contains carcinogens, free radicals and tar. But, 75% of smoked marijuana is unfiltered, unlike cigarettes. If commercially produced in the same fashion as cigarettes but without all the extra chemicals tobacco companies add to their products, it would be a much lesser source of cancer causing agents. There is some very strong evidence that Marijuana use does temporarily deleteriously effect short-term memory, cognitive reasoning and fine motor control, much like alcohol use. However, unlike alcohol, other than simply the fact that you are smoking unprocessed, unfiltered vegetable matter, the active ingredients have no permanent adverse affects on any organ or system in the human body. Marijuana is not a poison like alcohol which is the reason there is no "hang-over".
From a behavioral perspective Marijuana and alcohol have much less in common. Alcohol's "intoxicating" effect is mostly a result of the altering of a brain region called the reticular formation. This part of the brain is responsible (among other things) for filtering sensory input. It throws out sensory information it deems "unimportant" only allowing the important stuff to pass though it to other parts of the brain. For example, I am wearing socks right now, but unless I choose to focus my attention on them my reticular formation filters out the "feel" of them on my feet and ankles. So, if the reticular formation is a filter allowing only important sensory input to pass through, alcohol clogs the filter. More and more sensory input is discarded as irrelevant in proportion to the level of alcohol in the blood to the point where the user passes out in blackout fashion. During the latter phases of acute alcohol intoxication no sensory input is recorded at all in the memory as it has all been discarded. I am sure no one needs any explanation or examples of how dangerous that could be in many situations.
Marijuana, although it's a lot harder to isolate particular brain regions affected, has almost the entirely opposite effect. Marijuana actually increases both the acuity of the senses and the actions of them, in terms of associations derived by their interpretation, in the brain. To put this another way, it creates a connectedness between sensory perception, memory and cognitive thought that expands awareness of the single object of attention in a multifaceted way incorporating both left and right hemispheres. The problem with this, and why marijuana intoxication is dangerous to operate a motor vehicle on, is because this increased brain activity focused upon a single object of attention takes away from "peripheral" awareness of everything else around you. Your situational awareness, as it were, is reduced to the point of nonexistence as you can focus extremely intently but on only one object at a time.
The other necessary comparison between alcohol and marijuana is its affect on the emotional state or mood. Both, have an euphoric effect, but the euphoria of alcohol is relatively short-lived compared to the length and extent of intoxication. After a certain point the euphoria wears off and the misinterpretation of improperly filtered information allows for extreme, if not violent, expressions of uninhibited emotional behavior. As intoxication wears off the lower alcohol level in the blood stream in the brain depresses mood creating an anti-euphoria state further exacerbating wavering emotional stability.
Marijuana has a much longer lasting Euphoric period. It can be as long as the intoxicated feeling itself and is rarely associated with a "crashing" of mood as the level of THC affecting the brain subsides. Rather than information being over-filtered, marijuana actually deepens the interpretation of information increasing its impact on emotions. This is why a funny joke on marijuana is hilarious to the point a wetting oneself, whereas normally it would just be worth a chuckle. This is true of any interpretation, a sad movie while intoxicated by marijuana may make a grown man weep openly when he would not otherwise shed a tear. So, it is far less likely for someone intoxicated by marijuana to display negative emotions or violence as the experience of profound empathy has the opposite effect of alcohol induced sensory distortion and misinterpretation.
There was a recent study done by British researchers that indicated marijuana if used habitually by those with psychiatric problems could increase the chance of them becoming acutely symptomatic. It even seemed to indicate that those with no diagnosed psychiatric ailment, but were predisposed in some previously unknown way, were more inclined to manifest that condition after prolonged habitual use. There was no evidence to support the degradation of mental stability in those considered "normal" though. So, I guess from that one could say, based on this research, habitual marijuana use is definitely not going be recommended for everyone, but then again no drug is.
There are many reasons marijuana remains illegal, take it from someone who has read Government reports on the subject, very few of the reasons are specifically in the, "best interests of the citizenry". I will just list some here...
1) Possibly lowers worker productivity, unlike the stimulating effect of nicotine.
2) Is far too easy to grow and cultivate, therefore regulate and tax.
3) Concentrations of the psychoactive substance THC varies widely therefore has unpredictable effects.
4) In its raw form it can cause cancer.
5) It is extremely cheap to produce and process so even if taxed market forces would make it relatively economically insignificant.
6) Govt seizure of private property indirectly associated with marijuana indictments exceeds the street value of the drug seized itself more than 100 fold.
7) Some conclude that anyone who would smoke a joint today would likely shoot up heroin tomorrow...the "Escalating drug use pattern theory".
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damn zaz you are genius!! But I don't understand how it would be hard to tax, because i can go to pike and BUY a plant with tax. so if it were to become legal make it like 5 dollars for 2 grams of weed with no seeds. people are lazy, they would rather go out and buy a blunt rather then grow it themselves. Look at cigarettes that's a plant, and look how much money they make each year off tax. I mean weed to me just doesn't seem bad at all, all it does is take the stress you have and makes you not worry about it for an hour out of your day. I don't understand why the government has to ruin someones life because of a gram or 2 of weed. I mean it grows on the ground, how can something that grows be illegal that does not make since. also its legal in other European countries. how are crime and accidents compared over there compared to here?
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I don't understand why you need to smoke something to relieve your stress.
Oh and to answer your question, because it's icky.
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damn zaz you are genius!! But I don't understand how it would be hard to tax, because i can go to pike and BUY a plant with tax. so if it were to become legal make it like 5 dollars for 2 grams of weed with no seeds. people are lazy, they would rather go out and buy a blunt rather then grow it themselves. Look at cigarettes that's a plant, and look how much money they make each year off tax. I mean weed to me just doesn't seem bad at all, all it does is take the stress you have and makes you not worry about it for an hour out of your day. I don't understand why the government has to ruin someones life because of a gram or 2 of weed. I mean it grows on the ground, how can something that grows be illegal that does not make since. also its legal in other European countries. how are crime and accidents compared over there compared to here?
It would be hard to tax for a few reasons:
1) Unlike refining tobacco or alcohol, refining marijuana to make it fit for consumption is simple, anyone can do it, so many will.
2) The THC molecule is highly complex and hard to measure and keep at a constant concentration even when comparing production from the same plant. Therefore, unlike alcohol where you have a pricing structure based on alcohol per unit volume, THC concentration would be highly variable even within the same crop making pricing and taxing problematic.
3) Unless the government price-fixed it, commercially produced marijuana would quickly become so inexpensive the taxes levied would have to be increased far beyond the price of the product itself to even make it cost-effective to regulate. If that happens people will just grow it themselves for free instead of paying relatively exorbitant taxes on it.
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To be honest I don't have a problem with people who smoke weed. First off you don't hear about people killing others while driving high. Secondly I have never seen anyone high getting into a bar fight at 2:00 am. Thirdly it is all natural unlike LSD, Crack, Coke, Ice, PCP, Crystal Meth, and Ectasy. With hemp you can make clothes, oil, ropes, etc. I think pot should be legal. It would help take the pressure off law enforcement so they can concentrate on getting harder drugs off the street and it would be a source of tax revenue.
Just my 2 cents.... :D
There's a difference between industrial hemp which contains nearly no THC and recreational hemp which has poor fiber qualities.
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So how can they get away with it in other European countries?? seems like they have no problem at all with weed.
But couldn't they still legalize it and say businesses can still drug test you. That way it still limits the usage.
But weed is something fun to do and it just gives you good feeling for only an hour, I could never see anyone killing anything while on THC cause it gives you such happy feelings and chills you out. I feel that's necessary for most people.
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So how can they get away with it in other European countries?? seems like they have no problem at all with weed.
But couldn't they still legalize it and say businesses can still drug test you. That way it still limits the usage.
But weed is something fun to do and it just gives you good feeling for only an hour, I could never see anyone killing anything while on THC cause it gives you such happy feelings and chills you out. I feel that's necessary for most people.
Read, "Brave New World", by Aldous Huxley. You'll love it...;)
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It would be hard to tax for a few reasons:
1) Unlike refining tobacco or alcohol, refining marijuana to make it fit for consumption is simple, anyone can do it, so many will.
Anyone can grow corn but there is still a nice market for it.
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Anyone can grow corn but there is still a nice market for it.
That's a problem of scale. It takes a LOT of corn to feed the country's beef and dairy cattle. Very little corn is actually consumed by humans directly, especially domestically. It would take very little production and land to cultivate enough marijuana to completely satiate domestic demand for it. Therefore, supply would dominate demand, depressing the price...
Corn is actually one of the reasons against developing bio-fuels. There is such a demand of it from the cattle industry it's unbalancing the market to divert production to the bio-fuels industry...
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That's a problem of scale, it takes a LOT of corn to feed the country's beef and dairy cattle. Very little corn is actually consumed by humans, especially domestically. It would take very little production and land to cultivate enough marijuana to completely satiate domestic demand for it. Therefore, supply would dominate demand, depressing the price...
Tomatos are easy to grow. It would take very little production and land to cultivate enough tomatos. There is still a nice market for tomoatos
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Tomatos are easy to grow. It would take very little production and land to cultivate enough tomatos. There is still a nice market for tomoatos
Steve, I don't want to turn this into an agricultural symposium. But, again, tomatoes are extremely land intensive to produce, difficult to harvest and very prone to insects, disease and rodents. A very small fraction of them are consumed in their unprocessed form. They also deplete the topsoil so must be rotated with other less lucrative crops. Tomatoes also have a very brief period of edibility. Marijuana on the other hand can be stored almost indefinitely without diminishing the quality further raising the supply vs. demand curve...
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It would be hard to tax for a few reasons:
1) Unlike refining tobacco or alcohol, refining marijuana to make it fit for consumption is simple, anyone can do it, so many will.
2) The THC molecule is highly complex and hard to measure and keep at a constant concentration even when comparing production from the same plant. Therefore, unlike alcohol where you have a pricing structure based on alcohol per unit volume, THC concentration would be highly variable even within the same crop making pricing and taxing problematic.
3) Unless the government price-fixed it, commercially produced marijuana would quickly become so inexpensive the taxes levied would have to be increased far beyond the price of the product itself to even make it cost-effective to regulate. If that happens people will just grow it themselves for free instead of paying relatively exorbitant taxes on it.
Why bother regulating it / taxing it at all?
Why do people who hate the government, especially taxes, suddenly propose to tax marijuana?
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Why bother regulating it / taxing it at all?
Why do people who hate the government, especially taxes, suddenly propose to tax marijuana?
If government could figure out a way to tax the air we breathe they would... ;)
But, seriously, it is the official position of the government to impose "Sin taxes" on purely recreational activities, especially ones that are based on the consumption of substances with no other formally recognized redeeming value. The reasoning is the revenue generated will compensate for future costs associated with potential health and social welfare issues.
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Zazen,
I assume from your studies you realize just how much of a smell a growing marijuana plant gives off? I kind of doubt that's going to fly well with the wife/neighbor/town ordinance ack... Some people will grow it, sure, but I hardly think the majority of its smokers will.
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Zazen,
I assume from your studies you realize just how much of a smell a growing marijuana plant gives off? I kind of doubt that's going to fly well with the wife/neighbor/town ordinance ack... Some people will grow it, sure, but I hardly think the majority of its smokers will.
Do a google search for "Negative pressure rooms" and "Scent air filtration systems" ;)
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Illegal or not it's easy to get. If the government was smart the would legalise it and tax it, they could get the country out of dept real fast. :lol
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I smoked weed for years and never once hallucinated......
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Illegal or not it's easy to get. If the government was smart the would legalise it and tax it, they could get the country out of dept real fast. :lol
The problem is...
6) Govt seizure of private property indirectly associated with marijuana indictments exceeds the street value of the drug seized itself more than 100 fold.
That doesn't even include revenue generated from from fines levied. So, in a way, the fact that it is readily available on the "black market" and is relatively inexpensive as far as contraband goes makes keeping it illegal actually more lucrative for the Government than taxing its decriminalized commercial production and sale.
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I smoked weed for years and never once hallucinated......
Hallucination doesn't necessarily mean seeing pink elephants ballet dancing across your field of vision. Hallucination is any alteration in the subjective perception of stimuli. For example, time distortion. A lot of test subjects reported that marijuana produced a phenomena known as time dilation or temporal inflation. What seems like 30 minutes subjectively is actually just 2 minutes in real time. The exponential increase in cascading associative mental connections to sensory information across both hemispheres of the brain distorts the perception of time's passage. The same thing is noted in the course of lucid dreaming, subjects report dreams that seemed to last an hour, but in real time lasted only 30 seconds. Of course the THC concentration of the substance will play a role in how noticeable the hallucinatory effects of marijuana are.
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This topic reminds me that I need to call my drug dealer.
My wife needs her weed so I can have peace for one night.
Also she gets very horny so I have no problem paying for her fix.
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I smoked weed for years and never once hallucinated......
Sould try what i got...it will make you think your back in WW2 :rock.
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Sould try what i got...it will make you think your back in WW2 :rock.
:lol
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Weed cures Hyperactivity syndrome :aok
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Think of it this way smoking weed will prevent glaucoma in the future. It's like a flu shot before flu season...it's just 100 times better.
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Steve, I don't want to turn this into an agricultural symposium. But, again, tomatoes are extremely land intensive to produce, difficult to harvest and very prone to insects, disease and rodents. A very small fraction of them are consumed in their unprocessed form. They also deplete the topsoil so must be rotated with other less lucrative crops. Tomatoes also have a very brief period of edibility. Marijuana on the other hand can be stored almost indefinitely without diminishing the quality further raising the supply vs. demand curve...
I could list a hundred other crops that one can grow but that there is still a market for. My point is that you are just plain wrong that it would be hard to control a pot market. Simply issue licenses to grow and/or sell it. Unlicensed distribution would reulst in heavy fines/ jail. It's easy to Burn CD's but there is still a market for them.
BTW, you are worng about tomatos. If you eat a tomato, take a dump in the woods and comeback a few weeks later, you will have tomato plants. The seeds survive digestion. The plants are no more susceptible to pests and other hazards than any other vine. It's easy to grow a nice garden in your back yard. One with plenty of crop production to feed a family. You are just plain wrong about your land intensive BS.
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Do a google search for "Negative pressure rooms" and "Scent air filtration systems" ;)
I thought the argument for people growing their own was based on the cost of doing so being less than what the government charged/taxed product would be?
Again, if you have to go to all the trouble to do all that, who will bother? A few people, sure, but not the majority...
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I could list a hundred other crops that one can grow but that there is still a market for. My point is that you are just plain wrong that it would be hard to control a pot market. Simply issue licenses to grow and/or sell it. Unlicensed distribution would reulst in heavy fines/ jail. It's easy to Burn CD's but there is still a market for them.
BTW, you are worng about tomatos. If you eat a tomato, take a dump in the woods and comeback a few weeks later, you will have tomato plants. The seeds survive digestion. The plants are no more susceptible to pests and other hazards than any other vine. It's easy to grow a nice garden in your back yard. One with plenty of crop production to feed a family. You are just plain wrong about your land intensive BS.
A) It's not the plant but the berry that is prone to pests.
B) There's a huge difference between a backyard garden and massive scale cultivation.
C) Having this argument with you is kind of pointless, boring and hypothetical. You are welcome to whatever opinion you want, until it actually becomes legal it's just an opinionated guess.
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I thought the argument for people growing their own was based on the cost of doing so being less than what the government charged/taxed product would be?
Again, if you have to go to all the trouble to do all that, who will bother? A few people, sure, but not the majority...
It's not expensive.
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A)C) Having this argument with you is kind of pointless, boring and hypothetical.
Kind of like your assertion that it would be hard to tax. You actually have no idea.
You offer points. When counterpoints are offered you refuse to address them as pointless. This is one of your human weaknessses. You simply do not have it in you that someone else might have an opinion which differs from yours... and is correct. You've admitted as much in another thread. I've watched it in several discussions you are involved in. You pontifcate to the point of being tiresome, then when someone else offers a counterpoint your uncontrollable need to be correct compels you to type a WOT that many people won't bother to read.
Bad news Zazen, you are wrong on this one. I don't know how you are going to live with it.
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Think of it this way smoking weed will prevent glaucoma in the future. It's like a flu shot before flu season...it's just 100 times better.
Welcome to the irony of the pharmaceutical industry. If marijuana made you feel like crap and had a laundry list of side effects like coma, death, incontinence, blindness and impotence etc., but had even half the medical uses it does currently, the FDA would be jumping through fiery hoops to get it removed from the controlled substance lists so pharmaceutical companies could make billions selling it. Since it is "recreational" as well as medicinal it remains withheld from people, "for their own good" by those who "know what's best for us"...
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Kind of like your assertion that it would be hard to tax. You actually have no idea.
You offer points. When counterpoints are offered you refuse to address them as pointless. This is one of your human weaknesses. You simply do not have it in you that someone else might have an opinion which differs from yours... and is correct. You've admitted as much in another thread. I've watched it in several discussions you are involved in. You pontifcate to the point of being tiresome, then when someone else offers a counterpoint your uncontrollable need to be correct compels you to type a WOT that many people won't bother to read.
Bad news Zazen, you are wrong on this one. I don't know how you are going to live with it.
Wow, dude, you obviously have some personal issue with me. That's cool, I really don't care, but you're just being silly. I participated in this thread for the same reason I do in any other. I have an idea or perspective I think others may find entertaining, interesting and thought provoking, agreeing with me is completely optional. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me in the slightest. To be perfectly honest, I like it. I love to be challenged intellectually. But, no offense intended, you aren't challenging at all to me, you're just rude, argumentative and petty, none of that adds anything to the conversation. You think it would be easy to regulate and tax, I don't...That's great, hopefully we'll both live long enough to find out who guessed correctly...Case Closed...
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Zazen, I still don't think it would be hard to tax, nor do I think many people would wind up growing their own stash...
First of all, it would be much, much cheaper for me to roll my own cigarettes. I do not do this on account of the inconvenience, mess, hassle, etc. I have better things to do with my time. So do most other people who smoke cigarettes. It won't be any different with marijuana.
Second of all, even if the assets taken per raid are much more valuable than the crop itself, that does not take into account the fact that drug raids do absolutely nothing, zip, zilch, nada, to stop the flow of drugs in the first place. OK - *maybe* it causes a few hours inconvenience as one goes through the network shopping around, but on the whole, it solves nothing. This is because of the sheer volume of product being moved about that the government never lays its hands on. That's a lot of transactions that are not being intercepted.
Also, drug raids are sporadic sources of income for the government. Many completely fail and do nothing save get some police officers overtime checks.
OTOH, drug deals are non-stop transactions going on every hour of every day, all across the country. One year's taxation of these transactions is going to both be more stable than the raid income, and quite probably more profitable. Especially considering, once again, the "inconvenience motive" for people who aren't particularly industrious to go to a store and pony up slightly more cash than they would need to have a stable crop for their own personal use.
Of course the government can't admit this for two reasons. First of all, there's really no way to put hard statistics on it, since most people won't answer surveys. Secondly, once the true numbers came out, they would show plain as day that the government's "War on Drugs" has been hopelessly lost.
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it's only illegal if you get caught. :O :O :rock
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I could listen to you guys all day.
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Cannabis is illegal in the US because our government passed a law making it so. (I infer that the gubmint believed at the time that this substance is harmful to individuals and to society.)
The reason it remains illegal, tho with increasingly milder sanctions against its use and possession, is because not enough voters want to legalize the substance. (I infer that the gubmint may have changed its original beliefs about cannabis. I also infer that there is not a large enough voter sentiment to overcome inertia and abolish cannabis laws... maybe too busy smoking it to care? Maybe most believe we don't need to encourage the use of another mind altering substance.)
I know one thing for sure, gubmint will insist on getting a piece of the action - one way or another. If they don't outlaw it, they will insist on regulating it. Like gambling.
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With HYDROPONICS and GROW LIGHTS you can grow tomatoe plants anywhere even in you closet. :rofl
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Zazen, I still don't think it would be hard to tax, nor do I think many people would wind up growing their own stash...
First of all, it would be much, much cheaper for me to roll my own cigarettes. I do not do this on account of the inconvenience, mess, hassle, etc. I have better things to do with my time. So do most other people who smoke cigarettes. It won't be any different with marijuana.
Second of all, even if the assets taken per raid are much more valuable than the crop itself, that does not take into account the fact that drug raids do absolutely nothing, zip, zilch, nada, to stop the flow of drugs in the first place. OK - *maybe* it causes a few hours inconvenience as one goes through the network shopping around, but on the whole, it solves nothing. This is because of the sheer volume of product being moved about that the government never lays its hands on. That's a lot of transactions that are not being intercepted.
Also, drug raids are sporadic sources of income for the government. Many completely fail and do nothing save get some police officers overtime checks.
OTOH, drug deals are non-stop transactions going on every hour of every day, all across the country. One year's taxation of these transactions is going to both be more stable than the raid income, and quite probably more profitable. Especially considering, once again, the "inconvenience motive" for people who aren't particularly industrious to go to a store and pony up slightly more cash than they would need to have a stable crop for their own personal use.
Of course the government can't admit this for two reasons. First of all, there's really no way to put hard statistics on it, since most people won't answer surveys. Secondly, once the true numbers came out, they would show plain as day that the government's "War on Drugs" has been hopelessly lost.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the point that the "war on drugs" does more harm than good. But, I think you underestimate the scale of siezures. The DEA siezes hundreds of ships and aircraft annually then sells them off to subsidize their budget, that doesn't even include proceeds from real estate and bank accounts and that's just one Federal agency.
But, marijuana is a nuanced and widely varying product, it has grown moreso in that regard over the years due to the small, quality conscious growers. There are two main species, indica and sativa, and an almost infinite number of strains within those two species that can easily be hybridized and cross-matched. The effect on the user is a pretty wide variation of quality and variety in terms of the recreational experience itself. If you combine the ease of cultivation with that compelling connoisseur factor more people will grow their own for this reason alone even if the net cost is equal or worse to inferior commercial marijuana. This would be especially true if commercial marijuana cultivation homogenized the "small shop" hybrids into one blend designed for consistency of potency moreso than preserving nuanced variation.
Alcohol and nicotine, our only real examples to contrast, may differ in taste based on brand and type, but the overall effect on the user is basically identical. Marijuana is far more complex than that. I am not sure massive scale cultivation could capture that variety properly unless the pricing for specialty types was set on a premium basis in which case, again, more people would opt to just grow it themselves depending on how expensive and heavily taxed the premium blends are.
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With HYDROPONICS and GROW LIGHTS you can grow tomatoe plants anywhere even in you closet. :rofl
I smoked a tomato once, I coughed up blood for a week! :rofl
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dont smoke cat nip......
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I'm not disagreeing with you on the point that the "war on drugs" does more harm than good. But, I think you underestimate the scale of siezures. The DEA siezes hundreds of ships and aircraft annually then sells them off to subsidize their budgets, that doesn't include real estate and bank accounts.
The point is, the more impressive the scale of the siezures, the more impressive the scale of the actual product finding the streets. Airplanes and ships cost big money - yet they're looked at as acceptable write-offs by the cartels/dealers, etc., because if they weren't - they'd obviously stop being siezed, as they'd stop coming.
But, marijuana is a nuanced and widely varying product. There are two main species, indica and sativa, and an almost infinite number of strains within those two species that can easily be hybridized and cross-matched. The effect on the user is a pretty wide variation in terms of quality and variety in terms of the type of recreational experience. If you combine the ease of cultivation with that compelling connoisseur factor more people will grow their own for this reason alone even if the net cost is equal or worse. This would be especially true if commercial marijuana cultivation homogenized the "small shop" hybrids into one blend designed for consistency of potency moreso than preserving nuanced variation.
Marijuana, for the reasons you stated, is much like wine, and like wine, I suppose some people would choose to go it on their own. I don't think you'll find such people are the majority.
I do think it would be great to be able to walk into a store, browse a selection of different strains, and try one out, knowing for a FACT that it is what the label says (and not what the dealer hypes it up as being... You know how many guys have "Purple Haze" out there? :rolleyes: ).
It would also be great to be able to just drive down the road to a store as opposed to playing phone tag and then sitting around waiting for a connect to come through.
I honestly believe if marijuana were openly sold in stores, that is where the vast majority of marijuana would be bought. It's convenient, guaranteed, and simple.
Alcohol and nicotine, our only real examples to contrast, may differ slightly in taste based on brand and type, but the overall effect on the user is the same. Marijuana is far more complex. I am not sure massive scale cultivation could capture that properly unless the pricing for specialty types was set on a premium basis in which case, again, more people would opt to just grow it themselves depending on how expensive and heavily taxed the premium blends are.
I again doubt that many would grow it themselves (I know I wouldn't), but I'm certain that some people would start successful small businesses much like they do with small wineries today. Some would eventually become very successful, others would eventually fold, but the whole "promote small business" line we keep hearing over and over would mesh very well with legalized marijuana cultivation.
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dont smoke cat nip......
Funny thing happened when I was young to make me agree with you :rofl :rofl
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The effect on the user is a pretty wide variation of quality and variety in terms of the recreational experience itself.
:rofl
If you combine the ease of cultivation with that compelling connoisseur factor more people will grow their own for this reason alone even if the net cost is equal or worse to inferior commercial marijuana
A small minority will always grow their own. We live in a *I want it now* society. The majority would buy from the stores just for the sake of convenience.
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I honestly believe if marijuana were openly sold in stores, that is where the vast majority of marijuana would be bought. It's convenient, guaranteed, and simple.
Exactly. :)
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Marijuana, for the reasons you stated, is much like wine, and like wine, I suppose some people would choose to go it on their own. I don't think you'll find such people are the majority.
Well, not really, I've made my own wine, it was pretty good. But, I got the same buzz from my own wine that I do from an $8 bottle of Merlot from the grocery store and it was a hell of a lot easier. Different strains of marijuana can provide a very different experience, this isn't true of alcohol or tobacco products generally...Obviously, those not concerned with quality of experience but just want to "catch a buzz" will just go to the store. But, the cottage industry of small scale growers who grow a wide variety of specialty blends will continue and thrive. They will be very hard to regulate and tax.
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:rofl
A small minority will always grow their own. We live in a *I want it now* society. The majority would buy from the stores just for the sake of convenience.
Waiting 3-5 months for your female plants to mature isn't exactly about *I want it now*. It's more about quality control and a discerning ganja pallet. It's a thriving hobby for a lot of people that has absolutely nothing to do with money. I know, I'm from Canada originally. I've seen more grow rooms than I've seen stars in the sky.
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But, the cottage industry of small scale growers who grow a wide variety of specialty blends will continue and thrive. They will be very hard to regulate and tax.
It would be like buying (tomatoes, cherries, any fruit or vegetable) from the farmer for your own us. You pay him in cash and he will claim it on his tax returns. :rofl
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It would be like buying (tomatoes, cherries, any fruit or vegetable) from the farmer for your own us. You pay him in cash and he will claim it on his tax returns. :rofl
LoL yup.. :aok
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For those with carcinogen concerns, and pretty much the only way to "smoke" bud:
(http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/11/volcano_digit.jpg)
Worth the cash to save your lungs.
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What about the cotton mouth :(
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Wow, dude, you obviously have some personal issue with me.
Nope, I like ya, actually. You just think everyone who disagrees with you is somehow hateful. Per your own admission in another thread, you don't tolerate failure in yourself. Being wrong is akin to failure. Your inability to admit being wrong makes debates with you circular and unproductive until you beg off with some excuse or another.
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It would be like buying (tomatoes, cherries, any fruit or vegetable) from the farmer for your own us. You pay him in cash and he will claim it on his tax returns. :rofl
Sure, there would always be under the table deals. Most of the same people who can buy from the farmer also live out where they have property to grow their own.
What about the millions of city people who don't have this access? Part of the expense of pot is the cost of doing business while at risk of getting caught breaking the law. The government could license distributors, add a nice sales tax, and probably still have the pot cheaper than what it currently sells for on the street. Think about it.
The big profiteers might be Indian Tribes with reservation land. No taxes... cheaper pot. That might be interesting.
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For those with carcinogen concerns, and pretty much the only way to "smoke" bud:
(http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/11/volcano_digit.jpg)
Worth the cash to save your lungs.
there like 500$
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there like 500$
And chemo is a lot more. IMO if you are going to smoke weed you may as well cut the damage it does as much as possible, and 400-ish is a small investment to do that.
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Nope, I like ya, actually. You just think everyone who disagrees with you is somehow hateful. Per your own admission in another thread, you don't tolerate failure in yourself.
Well, if I give that impression, I assure you it's not intentional. I love intellectual debate in real life and on discussion forums, debate would be absolutely zero fun if I was always right and/or everyone always agreed with me. Perhaps something is being lost in the translation to pure text. But, I assure you I am not casting down my opinions like thunderbolts from some ivory tower of perfectionism. If I was afraid or resentful of dissenting opinions I would not purposefully interject my thoughts and ideas into hotly debated discussions. In fact, I'll often purposefully choose contentious issues, especially if I find both sides of the argument equally attractive, it helps me resolve my own thought conflicts on the topic to join the debate and work it out as we go along.. Sometimes I'll even debate with a line of thinking opposed to my own personal opinion just to see if others can prove my real take on the subject correct by countering me by the same logic pathways that I did, reinforcing the truth of my logical thinking on the topic.
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And chemo is a lot more. IMO if you are going to smoke weed you may as well cut the damage it does as much as possible, and 400-ish is a small investment to do that.
Yes but im sure there's someone that will argue with you about it. But if you dont know the risk's about it you should not be doing it. It's like people that smoke tobacco. They know the risk but they still continue to do it not only hurting themselves but the people around them with second hand smoke witch is more deadly. Im not going to really get into it but people that smoke weed say a few times a month are no as bad off as people that smoke weed every day. It's the persons choice and it's there life they have to live with the consequences.
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Oh dear, I was a card carrying member of NORML for years. I also worked in a pharmaceutical research laboratory where we were conducting extensive research on various drugs and their affect on human behavior and brain chemistry. I had access to restricted Government and private research reports and data on Marijuana (I cannot disclose specific data). <If you do not enjoy my comprehensive posts stop reading now.>
Marijuana is in fact considered a hallucinogen and a barbiturate (due to its effects rather than its actual chemical composition). The THC content largely determines its hallucinogenic effect, but the most powerful marijuana doesn't even compare to weakest concentrations of LSD-25 or mescalin. Marijuana, unlike almost every other drug is a victim of a property implied by one of its names, "weed". It can grow almost anywhere and can flower several times a year in a wide variety of soils and climates. It is one of the few vegetable based narcotics that can be grown casually by private citizens in sizeable quantities. As Skyrock pointed out, Marijuana criminalization was used as a tool to further politically motivated restrictive government immigration and deportation policies against Hispanics. Later enforcement, especially in the deep south and inner cities, used marijuana criminalization to target African-Americans.
There is proof that like cigarettes, raw, unprocessed Marijuana vegetable matter contains carcinogens, free radicals and tar. But, 75% of smoked marijuana is unfiltered, unlike cigarettes. If commercially produced in the same fashion as cigarettes but without all the extra chemicals tobacco companies add to their products, it would be a much lesser source of cancer causing agents. There is some very strong evidence that Marijuana use does temporarily deleteriously effect short-term memory, cognitive reasoning and fine motor control, much like alcohol use. However, unlike alcohol, other than simply the fact that you are smoking unprocessed, unfiltered vegetable matter, the active ingredients have no permanent adverse affects on any organ or system in the human body. Marijuana is not a poison like alcohol which is the reason there is no "hang-over".
From a behavioral perspective Marijuana and alcohol have much less in common. Alcohol's "intoxicating" effect is mostly a result of the altering of a brain region called the reticular formation. This part of the brain is responsible (among other things) for filtering sensory input. It throws out sensory information it deems "unimportant" only allowing the important stuff to pass though it to other parts of the brain. For example, I am wearing socks right now, but unless I choose to focus my attention on them my reticular formation filters out the "feel" of them on my feet and ankles. So, if the reticular formation is a filter allowing only important sensory input to pass through, alcohol clogs the filter. More and more sensory input is discarded as irrelevant in proportion to the level of alcohol in the blood to the point where the user passes out in blackout fashion. During the latter phases of acute alcohol intoxication no sensory input is recorded at all in the memory as it has all been discarded. I am sure no one needs any explanation or examples of how dangerous that could be in many situations.
Marijuana, although it's a lot harder to isolate particular brain regions affected, has almost the entirely opposite effect. Marijuana actually increases both the acuity of the senses and the actions of them, in terms of associations derived by their interpretation, in the brain. To put this another way, it creates a connectedness between sensory perception, memory and cognitive thought that expands awareness of the single object of attention in a multifaceted way incorporating both left and right hemispheres. The problem with this, and why marijuana intoxication is dangerous to operate a motor vehicle on, is because this increased brain activity focused upon a single object of attention takes away from "peripheral" awareness of everything else around you. Your situational awareness, as it were, is reduced to the point of nonexistence as you can focus extremely intently but on only one object at a time.
The other necessary comparison between alcohol and marijuana is its affect on the emotional state or mood. Both, have an euphoric effect, but the euphoria of alcohol is relatively short-lived compared to the length and extent of intoxication. After a certain point the euphoria wears off and the misinterpretation of improperly filtered information allows for extreme, if not violent, expressions of uninhibited emotional behavior. As intoxication wears off the lower alcohol level in the blood stream in the brain depresses mood creating an anti-euphoria state further exacerbating wavering emotional stability.
Marijuana has a much longer lasting Euphoric period. It can be as long as the intoxicated feeling itself and is rarely associated with a "crashing" of mood as the level of THC affecting the brain subsides. Rather than information being over-filtered, marijuana actually deepens the interpretation of information increasing its impact on emotions. This is why a funny joke on marijuana is hilarious to the point a wetting oneself, whereas normally it would just be worth a chuckle. This is true of any interpretation, a sad movie while intoxicated by marijuana may make a grown man weep openly when he would not otherwise shed a tear. So, it is far less likely for someone intoxicated by marijuana to display negative emotions or violence as the experience of profound empathy has the opposite effect of alcohol induced sensory distortion and misinterpretation.
There was a recent study done by British researchers that indicated marijuana if used habitually by those with psychiatric problems could increase the chance of them becoming acutely symptomatic. It even seemed to indicate that those with no diagnosed psychiatric ailment, but were predisposed in some previously unknown way, were more inclined to manifest that condition after prolonged habitual use. There was no evidence to support the degradation of mental stability in those considered "normal" though. So, I guess from that one could say, based on this research, habitual marijuana use is definitely not going be recommended for everyone, but then again no drug is.
There are many reasons marijuana remains illegal, take it from someone who has read Government reports on the subject, very few of the reasons are specifically in the, "best interests of the citizenry". I will just list some here...
1) Possibly lowers worker productivity, unlike the stimulating effect of nicotine.
2) Is far too easy to grow and cultivate, therefore regulate and tax.
3) Concentrations of the psychoactive substance THC varies widely therefore has unpredictable effects.
4) In its raw form it can cause cancer.
5) It is extremely cheap to produce and process so even if taxed market forces would make it relatively economically insignificant.
6) Govt seizure of private property indirectly associated with marijuana indictments exceeds the street value of the drug seized itself more than 100 fold.
7) Some conclude that anyone who would smoke a joint today would likely shoot up heroin tomorrow...the "Escalating drug use pattern theory".
Wow...... :O Thanks for the time and information sir..... :salute
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Im not going to really get into it but people that smoke weed say a few times a month are no as bad off as people that smoke weed every day.
Agreed on that, guess it all depends on how much you smoke or how much you have in the bank. I just personally prefer the volcano. :)
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Well, if I give that impression, I assure you it's not intentional. I love intellectual debate in real life and on discussion forums, debate would be absolutely zero fun if I was always right and/or everyone always agreed with me. Perhaps something is being lost in the translation to pure text. But, I assure you I am not casting down my opinions like thunderbolts from some ivory tower of perfectionism. If I was afraid or resentful of dissenting opinions I would not purposefully interject my thoughts and ideas into hotly debated discussions. In fact, I'll often purposefully choose contentious issues, especially if I find both sides of the argument equally attractive, it helps me resolve my own thought conflicts on the topic to join the debate and work it out as we go along.. Sometimes I'll even debate with a line of thinking opposed to my own personal opinion just to see if others can prove my real take on the subject correct by countering me by the same logic pathways that I did, reinforcing the truth of my logical thinking on the topic.
Well see, I like debates as well.... even heated ones. I'm the type of guy that can get in a heated exchange, then have a good laugh about it with the opponent later. I see nothing wrong in debating with passion. I'm not talking about vicious personal attacks here... just good clean jabs.
As for pot regulation... it would definitely have it's warts, IMHO. Something along the lines of moonshiners meet roadside vegetable stands, ya know?
I believe that the majority of people wouldn't have access to such clandestine distributors, though.
I think it would reduce crime on the border, at least some... no market for mexican pot here. At least no market for illegal pot. Remember, we could probably grow it and sell it here cheaply enough that sneaking pot across the border would not be very economical.
I would thinkg one problem that would have to be solved is crop size. Imagine if a farmer grew 1000's of acres of pot. I'd think some enterprising criminals might come up with a way to help themselves to some harvest. Solution: small, well guarded crops? Government owned farms? I think the latter is a bad idea.
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Solution: small, well guarded crops?
Greenhouses with guard dogs you haven't fed in a week. :devil
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(http://ohregina.com/drugsrbad.jpg)
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Ever wonder where medical bud comes from?
http://www.prairieplant.com/biosecure-underground.htm (http://www.prairieplant.com/biosecure-underground.htm)
In the US and Canada :O
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And chemo is a lot more. IMO if you are going to smoke weed you may as well cut the damage it does as much as possible, and 400-ish is a small investment to do that.
Yea, most use a Bong or Houka filled with water thinking this protects them. But, most aerosol-ized impurities and suspended particulate from burning raw cannabis are not water soluble. It's better to fill it with diluted alcohol as that is more effective, the impurities tend to be more readily alcohol soluble. If you're feeling handy combine that with an activated carbon filter and you're going to get most of the really bad stuff. By the way, Marijuana has no more carcinogenic material than any other plant if you smoked it, you could smoke a dandelion and have the same issues to deal with. The psychoactive ingredient THC itself is not a carcinogen, it's all the other crap that all plants have that when burned aerosol-ize and are absorbed by the lungs.
A lot of people don't know this but there is a manufactured form of pure THC. It is available in capsule, liquid or pill form and is swallowed. It is only available for pure research sanctioned by the Federal Government, based on Marijuana's place as a Schedule I Narcotic. But, if it ever became legal there will be the smokeless option as well, although it is expensive to reduce to it's pure form and digestive enzymes breakdown and render inert a good portion of the psychoactive THC when ingested.
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Ever wonder where medical bud comes from?
http://www.prairieplant.com/biosecure-underground.htm (http://www.prairieplant.com/biosecure-underground.htm)
In the US and Canada :O
Actually medical bud is even more powerful then the average Joe bud.
Yea, most use a Bong or Houka filled with water thinking this protects them. But, most aerosol-ized impurities and suspended particulate from raw cannabis are not water soluble. It's better to fill it with diluted alcohol as that is more effective, the impurities tend to be more readily alcohol soluble. If you're feeling handy combine that with an activated carbon filter and you're going to get most of the really bad stuff. By the way, Marijuana has no more carcinogenic material than any other plant if you smoked it, you could smoke a dandelion and have the same issues to deal with. The psychoactive ingredient THC itself is not a carcinogen, it's all the other crap that all plants have that when burned aerosol-ize and are absorbed by the lungs.
A lot of people don't know this but there is a manufactured form of pure THC. It is available in capsule, liquid or pill form and is swallowed. It is only available for pure research sanctioned by the Federal Government, based on Marijuana's place as a Schedule I Narcotic. But, if it ever became legal there will be the smokeless option as well, although it is expensive to reduce to it's pure form and digestive enzymes breakdown and render inert a good portion of the psychoactive THC when ingested.
It amazes me that this many people know so much about weed. :rock
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Actually medical bud is even more powerful then the average Joe bud.
It amazes me that this many people know so much about weed. :rock
Some claim Not.
http://www.medicalmarihuana.ca/govtpot.html (http://www.medicalmarihuana.ca/govtpot.html)
I think it is just a matter of opinion. Same as wine or home made beer. :aok
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Actually medical bud is even more powerful then the average Joe bud.
It amazes me that this many people know so much about weed. :rock
Sure can be, a lot of it's grown in laboratory conditions through hybridization, much like a hobbyist would grow it. But it would be impossible to mass produce it and maintain that kind of of quality. I've seen lab tests that showed 30%+ THC for plants grown in such controlled conditions. Keep in mind the average THC content of marijuana in the late 1960's was 3-8%. I live near Mexico, the "mass produced" marijuana around here is field grown, male plants are allowed to fertilize female plants. This lowers THC content as the female plant's energy goes to reproduction rather than producing THC rich resin.
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Sure can be, a lot of it's grown in laboratory conditions, much like a hobbyist would grow it. But it would be impossible to mass produce it and maintain that kind of of quality. I've seen lab tests that showed 30%+ THC for plants grown in such controlled conditions. I live near Mexico, the "mass produced" marijuana around here is field grown, male plants are allowed to fertilize female plants. This lowers THC content as the female plant's energy goes to reproduction rather than producing THC rich resin.
1 male can ruin a hole crop *snap* like that. Thats why if you grow your own(not suggesting you should) make sure to test the them and separate the males from the females.
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1 male can ruin a hole crop *snap* like that. Thats why if you grow your own(not suggesting you should) make sure to test the them and separate the males from the females.
Yup, that's one reason it's a poor crop to mass produce if potency is important...
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Quality over quantity in my book. A little bit will get you a long way.
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In BC here the Government was talking of mass producing the male fertilizer and then spray it over the province :(
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Quality over quantity in my book. A little bit will get you a long way.
Unless coughing up field hack phlem is fun for you save your lungs and go with quality...
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In BC here the Government was talking of mass producing the male fertilizer and then spray it over the province :(
:O
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I am smoking right now while reading this thread and that male spray stuff is a downer, man.
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I just got an "interesting" PM... :uhoh
I would like to point out that the information I provided was obtained largely from academic research I was involved in, not necessarily from direct personal experience with narcotic use or cultivation. I would also like to strongly enunciate the point that I am in no way advocating engaging in any criminal activity now or in the future. My intent was merely to promote discussion and inform for the purpose of entertainment. It is my personal belief it is human nature to experiment with altered states of consciousness in the pursuit of self-knowledge, with or without the use of psycoactive substances. I feel it is worse to let people proceed with that exploration in ignorance and risk them endangering their safety than to inform them and in so doing encourage responsible, sensible, good judgement. If my comments, observations or statements regarding illicit drug use were offensive to anyone I humbly apologize.
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*Deep southern accent*
Zazen, you talk funny.
:lol
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cause idiots like u get high and go do dumb stuff lol
-BigBOBCH
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gee zazen you should be a lawyer lol. i love all your information, you have stated so many things i have never thought about before.
Here goes my argument, IF weed was legal. About 30 high businesses would sprout up all over America. This would open up millions of jobs allowing more people to work, which then more people will buy things, allowing the economy to sprout up again. ( in other words a ton of tax money)
i know my fair share about weed on the streets medical weed is amazing! its not just weed they put other things inside of it, i like what vudak said, you would never be dissapointed, you would never get jipped my .4 grams and it would be a ton better.
But you have forgot one thing!!!!
SALVIA, people smoke it, makes them retarded for 15 min. And it comes in like 10x, 40x, and 60x i think How can they get away with that then????
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I've given Marinol to patients with end stage cancer and those receiving chemotherapy. It isn't a pure form of THC, it has some additives to slow the absorbtion to extend the effects.
Great drug for those that need it, we don't need to legalize it. However, if it was legalized I would definitely try it to see if it would grant me some relief from my GI problems.
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Del trust me dude, it will make you feel soo good. like just relaxing and all your problems will go away I promise.
I cant sit still, its hard for me. when I smoke it totally chills me out and im a much happier person for an hour.
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Del trust me dude, it will make you feel soo good. like just relaxing and all your problems will go away I promise.
That's what I said when I used to smoke cigarettes, it used to 'make my problems go away', at least until I wanted another cigarette.
No, I might try it if it becomes legalized to alleviate some of my GI problems. Nothing more, nothing less.
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You know that pot pretty much fries (or bakes) your brain. My friend cant concentrate on 2 things at once because he smoked weed a lot.
(May as well say this to you stoners on the boards, dont get weed from Texas, it's really cow Poo :D )
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Because potheads spell illegal as "illigal". :rofl :lol :D
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Not to throw a wet blanket, but it sounds like some here obsess about marijuana. If you can't relax or enjoy things without it - you need to do some self-examination.
also - I'm told that heavy daily usage makes males grow teats. If that is true, some of you guys sound like you've got some pendulous, swinging jugs.
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I'm told that heavy daily usage makes males grow teats.
lmao some people will believe anything :lol
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If that is true, some of you guys sound like you've got some pendulous, swinging jugs.
If so, they need to recalibrate.
;)
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i want a real answer and i dont want they cant tax it cause thats a pile of BS. but i just havent been able to figure it out, why is it soooooo bad???? cause its really not compared to alcohol and salvia (legal plant that makes you retarded basically)
but i was wonderin if any 1 knew a real reason why its illigal?
Because surfer dudes are dumb enough.
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illigal?
They want you to stay in school so you can spell "illegal" as well as "burito".
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Not to throw a wet blanket, but it sounds like some here obsess about marijuana. If you can't relax or enjoy things without it - you need to do some self-examination.
To be honest with you, I don't smoke marijuana very much any more. Once every three or four months if the mood suits me, and then usually I wonder why I bothered. It makes me timid, causes me to second guess myself, and robs me of my wits. I'm also very much against drunk (or high) driving, so if I smoke it, I'm stuck in one place. I don't particularly like the effects it has on me, so I usually turn it down.
Of course, there was a time when this wasn't the case, and I'm glad there was that time, as it gave me a much better insight into this stupid "War on Drugs" than your average non-drug-using American could ever hope to have. Forget marijuana... Ecstacy, Cocaine, Meth, LSD, Heroin... The war's completely hopeless across the board. The tactics chosen ruin lives and lead to more deaths than they could ever hope to save.
If the goal of a prison (for nonviolent criminals) is to rehabilitate the individual and help them turn their life around so they can be productive, tax paying Americans, then prison is the absolute worse place on earth to send a drug addict. For one thing, it's just a great way for them to increase their network of suppliers and clients, and on a more sinister tone, sending, for example, a heroin addict to prison for a few months to try and "teach them a lesson," is really nothing less than a death sentence. Assuming they can't find drugs in there (which is not true, anyway), once they get out their tolerance has dropped. They try using again with a dose close to what they were used to, and they die.
While I agree that cleaning up the streets from drugs is a noble cause, and one I'd be willing to help out doing, any one who thinks the current tactics are working is sticking their head in the sand. Unfortunately, the current tactics will remain the tactics until the laws are changed, and people don't usually like change.
It's funny... We spend so much money on trying and failing to eradicate the drug supply, and then cut funding from so many school programs (sports, art, music, field trips) that reduce the demand.
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Zazen, I appreciate your posting but since your "research" remains "classified" I can only remain skeptical and warry about anything you say. Although it does all look to match with what I've found in public research. :aok
I have plenty of reason to believe that the marijuana policies of the US will slowly be changing for the better over the next 10 years. For instance in a letter I mailed my senator on the subject he responded that he is planning on voting for the medicinial marijuana bill if it ever makes it to the floor.
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Not to throw a wet blanket, but it sounds like some here obsess about marijuana. If you can't relax or enjoy things without it - you need to do some self-examination.
also - I'm told that heavy daily usage makes males grow teats. If that is true, some of you guys sound like you've got some pendulous, swinging jugs.
Not to drop a hot potato down your pants, but its sounds like your generalizing and stereotyping. If you can't find things to do besides that - you need to do some self-examination.
-see what I did there?-
also - Don't believe everything your told. It just shows your ignorance.
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Not to throw a wet blanket, but it sounds like some here obsess about marijuana. If you can't relax or enjoy things without it - you need to do some self-examination.
also - I'm told that heavy daily usage makes males grow teats. If that is true, some of you guys sound like you've got some pendulous, swinging jugs.
I really should not be posting again as I have attracted some undesirable attention, but I feel this is an important point to mention.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support that marijuana is in any way physically addictive. There is nothing chemically about THC that blocks neuroreceptors it affects from being equally receptive to chemicals produced by the brain itself after the period of intoxication. This is unlike nicotine, caffeine or alcohol, which are in fact, extremely physically addictive for that very reason. With marijuana there are no clinically recognizable symptoms of hangover, "crashing", withdrawal, or PHYSICAL dependence. However, anything that a person finds pleasurable can be psychologically habit forming, especially if endorphins, natural opiates or adrenalin are involved (IE:sex, gambling, roller coasters, skydiving, sports, bungee jumping, etc, etc.). So, while marijuana does not replace any natural component of brain chemistry and produce symptoms of physical addiction or dependence, the possibility of psychological addiction is very real. The likelihood and degree of psychological dependence on marijuana is very unique to the individual's personality. Some people simply have addictive personalities, some do not. The same person that develops psychological dependance on marijuana for a sense of well-being is just as likely to be addicted to something like sexual intimacy for the same reason.
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Yeah I mean I'm not addictted to it, I just like what it does to me. I'm just a jumpy person, so weed kinda calms me down a little. As far as zazen says it seems like weed is harmless, which is fine with me.
people have it in there brain that weed is a totally bad thing. well what about Tylenol or any of those drugs, it helps you when you have a headache, weed just helps me settle down. same difference.
plus weed is a plant, tylenol is manufacutured so which do you trust???
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plus weed is a plant, tylenol is manufacutured so which do you trust???
Hmmmm... that would depend on where you get your pot from. Last I checked, there are no health department investigations at your average grow site, nor inspections of the shipping & receiving facilities.
Plenty of good arguments to make for pot. That's not one of them.
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people have it in there brain that weed is a totally bad thing. well what about Tylenol or any of those drugs, it helps you when you have a headache, weed just helps me settle down. same difference.
plus weed is a plant, tylenol is manufacutured so which do you trust???
Actually, Tylenol in quantity is extremely toxic, it can cause severe liver damage and death with as little as 5 times the recommended dosage (depending on weight, metabolism, liver function and age). It is impossible to overdose on marijuana. While it does have properties of a barbiturate, it does not significantly suppress the respiratory, nervous or circulatory systems or impact the liver even when taken in huge quantity per unit time. There is not one case in the history of humankind of anyone dying directly from marijuana intoxication alone (although if you smoked it in same quantity some smoke cigarettes lung cancer could result). Alcohol and Nicotine, on the other hand, have claimed more lives than all of the wars throughout human history.
That being said, do not automatically assume plants are less harmful than man-made substances. There's some plants, especially certain mushrooms that contain psychoactive substances, that will kill you dead as a doornail, even in very small quantity. The benefit of plants over chemicals is the composition of plants is known if not artificially manipulated. There's no telling how much Drano the the meth-lab puts in their product. But, don't think for a second that marijuana is perfectly "safe" because it's a plant. I've tested marijuana that has been chemically treated with all sorts of things, such as formaldehyde (cigarettes can have this too), cocaine, methamphetamine, ethyl or methyl alcohol, and even fruit juice as the crystallized sugar makes it look and smell more potent. So, be careful and don't assume all marijuana is "just" marijuana because it's a plant.
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But, don't think for a second that marijuana is perfectly "safe" because it's a plant. I've tested marijuana that has been chemically treated with all sorts of things, such as formaldehyde (cigarettes can have this too), cocaine, methamphetamine, ethyl or methyl alcohol, and even fruit juice as the crystallized sugar makes it look and smell more potent. So, be careful and don't assume all marijuana is "just" marijuana because it's a plant.
An interesting thing to remember is that many dealers will go out of their way to tell you what the marijuana is laced with, and then charge you extra for it :)
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An interesting thing to remember is that many dealers will go out of their way to tell you what the marijuana is laced with, and then charge you extra for it :)
Hahahahhaha...n00bs.
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Hahahahhaha...n00bs.
;)
It goes back to what I said earlier about how I'd like to be able to walk into a store, read the label, and actually know what I'm getting, as opposed to running into 20 people that all have "Purple Haze" :rolleyes:
But, you can certainly find honest dealers and honest product if you know where to look.
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Agreed. Have you been to Holland yet? It is what you've been looking for.
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Exaclty I want to know how holland deals with taxation and stuff like that. How do they hold up selling it in stores and restaurants??
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An interesting thing to remember is that many dealers will go out of their way to tell you what the marijuana is laced with, and then charge you extra for it :)
More often than not, "lacing" is done to artificially compensate for low THC content. No self-respecting hobbyist would "lace" his product. If it was that poor quality that it couldn't stand on its own merits he would use it as mulch instead.
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More often than not, "lacing" is done to artificially compensate for low THC content. No self-respecting hobbyist would "lace" his product. If it was that poor quality that it couldn't stand on its own merits he would use it as mulch instead.
Well, I think the mindset for lacing it with cocaine is a bit different than what you described :D
But, yeah, I wouldn't waste good stand-alone product (expensive as is) in a lacing experiment.
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Exaclty I want to know how holland deals with taxation and stuff like that. How do they hold up selling it in stores and restaurants??
It isn't in just every store and restaurant. The are called coffeshops. They usually do sell coffee too, heehee.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/speedy420/1431885982_c6b70b0c9c.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/speedy420/2398607554_7311f05bb0.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/speedy420/2282551039_067d59c301.jpg)
You'll want to look for the rectangular window sticker that is cut diagonally, half white half green. Prices are better than what you'd expect to pay for 'heads' here in the states. Just make your way past all the shops that are close to the main train station. The prices there are inflated beyond what you will usually find.
I highly recommend the Grey Area, Abraxas, Baba, and Mellow Yellow was fun to stop in on the way to the Van Gogh Museum.
Don't risk the street dealers, they will probably just try to mug you. You will find all the bud and shrooms you'd like in the coffeeshops.
Here is a map:
http://www.coffeeshop.freeuk.com/Map.html
You can see where I rented an apartment from a friend with a small group for a great price on that map. We were on the edge of the Red Light District which I wasn't too excited about since my girl went with me and most of the women in the windows are kinda creepy. We were facing the Old Church on Warmoesstraat.
When the dollar isn't worth crap again I will go back, feel free to join in!
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so do these businesses make good money???
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do they give free breast exams at those places bongboy?
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I spent about 5 days in Amsterdam and I remember the coffee shop section as being mellow and scenic and the red light district (especially during the weekend evenings) as being drunken frat boy rowdy fest. Started to walk in and turned around. Kinda like the glory that was New Orleans, vomit and all.
Much preffer ed the coffee shop section :) But, also enjoyed the beer of course in some of the more restrained places, especially the affordable Belgians.
Charon
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do they give free breast exams at those places bongboy?
Don't feed the troll.
Don't feed the troll.
Don't feed the troll!
From what I've seen they do well, but I wouldn't say its the way to become a millionaire. You've got to understand that prohibition here in the USA makes the whole situation different.
1) Prices aren't inflated by a black market system.
2) A smaller percentage of their population smokes than ours. (we could argue over different reasons but I see its legality as one. Many kids here in the states will do it, just like drinking or cigarettes because they feel rebelous or cool. It doesn't have that conotation there.)
3) People readily grow their own. If they have the dedication or just the green thumb they can do it.
4) There are a lot of coffeeshops so competition keeps the prices in check.
Good question though.
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From what I've seen they do well, but I wouldn't say its the way to become a millionaire. You've got to understand that prohibition here in the USA makes the whole situation different.
1) Prices aren't inflated by a black market system.
2) A smaller percentage of their population smokes than ours. (we could argue over different reasons but I see its legality as one. Many kids here in the states will do it, just like drinking or cigarettes because they feel rebelous or cool. It doesn't have that conotation there.)
3) People readily grow their own. If they have the dedication or just the green thumb they can do it.
4) There are a lot of coffeeshops so competition keeps the prices in check.
Good question though.
Hmmm, these direct observations of a regulated, legalized marijuana marketplace sound strangely familiar...I am overcome with an eerie feeling of deja vu...;)
<Strokes chin in deep contemplation> :aok
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Wow, these direct observations of a regulated, legalized marijuana marketplace sound strangely familiar...I am overcome with an eery feeling of Deja vu...;)
<Strokes chin in deep contemplation> :aok
Uh huh... Now what about my observation on how the more impressive the drug seizures, the more impressive the product reaching the streets?
No one's claiming it'll be a new gold mine... But I do think it would be more profitable for the economy as a whole to have it be a legal product that can be taxed. I dispute the government's claim that it's more profitable to keep it illegal. I think they tell themselves that so they don't look like as big of ineffective idiots for prosecuting the drug war.
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Uh huh... Now what about my observation on how the more impressive the drug seizures, the more impressive the product reaching the streets?
No one's claiming it'll be a new gold mine... But I do think it would be more profitable for the economy as a whole to have it be a legal product that can be taxed. I dispute the government's claim that it's more profitable to keep it illegal. I think they tell themselves that so they don't look like as big of ineffective idiots for prosecuting the drug war.
No arguments there. It may be more profitable in the end to legalize and tax it. The problem is, political will always favors the status quo. Unless politicians are compelled by overwhelming public opinion there will likely be no change in policy. This would be true even if there were irrefutable proof of the economic and social welfare benefits of marijuana legalization.
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<Strokes chin in deep contemplation> :aok
I just got an image of Zazen not at all unlike this :confused:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a217/sarahjeanb/Peters/chow-yun-fat-cut.jpg)
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I just got an image of Zazen not at all unlike this :confused:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a217/sarahjeanb/Peters/chow-yun-fat-cut.jpg)
Hmmmmmmmmm. I keep coming up with an image more along these lines.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh194/fastblastus/TArnold.jpg)
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:rofl
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Vudak, Zazen... i have to disagree, i would refer you to my first post here. Legal drugs earn less in tax than stealing drugs at the boarders and selling it to the dealers yourself. That IS what happens globaly even if it is not the government directly it is someone in power who is bent. To legalise cannabis would be to cut off your right to steal people's cannabis and sell it for huge revenue.
Even with a good honest man at the top job, someone, somewhere down the line is going to lose out if street drugs are legalised and therefore campaign against it.
Look to governments and notice which powerfull people campaign against legalising cannabis the most.....if they dont have an obvious reason ......like an overdosed child died or something horrible.... it is most probably that they are making money from confiscated narcotics.
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Vudak, Zazen... i have to disagree, i would refer you to my first post here. Legal drugs earn less in tax than stealing drugs at the boarders and selling it to the dealers yourself. That IS what happens globaly even if it is not the government directly it is someone in power who is bent. To legalise cannabis would be to cut off your right to steal people's cannabis and sell it for huge revenue.
Even with a good honest man at the top job, someone, somewhere down the line is going to lose out if street drugs are legalised and therefore campaign against it.
Look to governments and notice which powerfull people campaign against legalising cannabis the most.....if they dont have an obvious reason ......like an overdosed child died or something horrible.... it is most probably that they are making money from confiscated narcotics.
I know for a fact that happens with any contraband including weaponry. But, marijuana itself has a relatively low street value compared to how conspicuous and cumbersome it is to transport and sell especially when compared to "hard drugs" like cocaine or heroin.
Precisely because marijuana does not beget physical addiction it has a very finite and relatively easily satiated market. One marijuana user will only smoke so much in terms of both frequency and quantity. Playing the supply/demand game with marijuana isn't very effective because people simply either just stop smoking it, or grow their own if it gets too expensive on the black market. The supply/demand game with drugs like cocaine and heroin is extremely effective at manipulating price as the users almost literally can't live without it and it cannot be domestically produced by the citizenry. This makes the "hard drugs" extremely susceptible to the type of systemic government corruption you are speaking of.
When it comes to government corruption the name of the game is the fewest "transactions" for the biggest "reward". The more conspicuous and frequent the transactions the more likely the corruption will get "noticed". This means marijuana is rarely the primary focus of the "misdirection of contraband". A kilogram of cocaine is worth 30 times or more than a kilogram of marijuana on the black market and is only a fraction of the physical volume when it comes to efficiently importing, transporting and concealing it.
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Hmmm, a very good point there. It would be interesting to make a study of cannabis users and average income per annum from selling confiscated goods (sadly impossible as these sales are obviously not documented). It would of course turn out that much more pot is getting into the country and sold illegally than is being siezed by customs. But what would the ratios equal in terms of pure profit to be made on stolen drugs compared to the profit of taxing all users of cannabis? Surely, like you say, the black market is limited by home growers and competitive dealers, which keeps the price reasonably low. But would that not apply the same if pot was legal and taxed? What is to stop even more people growing pot and decreasing the demand even further if it were legal? What would be the new cost of enforcing dedicated growers and no one else?
To sustain the demand as high as possible it is smarter to keep the drug illegal. When a big drug bust happens the demand climbs higher still. It would be a tough calculation to make and a big gamble of profits, far safer to remain as it is and keep the system going as long as the 'free' money is being made from confiscated drugs.
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Hmmm, a very good point there. It would be interesting to make a study of cannabis users and average income per annum from selling confiscated goods (sadly impossible as these sales are obviously not documented). It would of course turn out that much more pot is getting into the country and sold illegally than is being siezed by customs. But what would the ratios equal in terms of pure profit to be made on stolen drugs compared to the profit of taxing all users of cannabis? Surely, like you say, the black market is limited by home growers and competitive dealers, which keeps the price reasonably low. But would that not apply the same if pot was legal and taxed? What is to stop even more people growing pot and decreasing the demand even further if it were legal? What would be the new cost of enforcing dedicated growers and no one else?
To sustain the demand as high as possible it is smarter to keep the drug illegal. When a big drug bust happens the demand climbs higher still. It would be a tough calculation to make and a big gamble of profits, far safer to remain as it is and keep the system going as long as the 'free' money is being made from confiscated drugs.
Yup, I am not disagreeing with you. In fact, where marijuana is decriminalized it is not only legal to possess and use it, but also produce it for "personal" use in at least a limited way. So, legalizing it would almost certainly increase not decrease the private, domestic production of marijuana. The systemic government corruption problem is really just another facet of the law enforcement benefit of the seizure of assets incentive, only it is "under the table". But, marijuana, of all the illicit drugs, is the least attractive candidate for diversion in this way. It's bulky, relatively inexpensive, hard to price inflate, not addictive so it's not a "necessary consumable" and it is conspicuous in terms of smell and extremely transport capacity intensive to distribute on a large scale.
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Pot smokers range across all socio-economic strata, from guys in the gutter to phd's. Just imagine if Hitler had become a stoner instead of trying to take over the world... :D
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Pot smokers range across all socio-economic strata, from guys in the gutter to phd's. Just imagine if Hitler had become a stoner instead of trying to take over the world... :D
This is because unlike drugs imbibed purely for an addictive physical sensation, such as cocaine or methamphetamine, marijuana is considered one of only a very few drugs considered to be a valuable way to explore altered states of consciousness reasonably safely. This "spiritual" side of its use tends to attract people that are intelligent, well educated and therefore generally wealthier. This is another reason marijuana cultivation is a hobby not necessarily enjoyed for any financial reasons, but just for the pure connoisseur factor. This makes its legality or commercial availability of little importance to this sub-group of marijuana enthusiasts...
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recommended reading: "Food of the Gods" by Terence McKenna - a very interesting take on psychoactive substance use and human development. :)
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a valuable way to explore altered states of consciousness reasonably safely. This "spiritual" side of its use
Poppycock
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Pot smokers range across all socio-economic strata, from guys in the gutter to phd's. Just imagine if Hitler had become a stoner instead of trying to take over the world... :D
Hitler was a speed freak.
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cause ppl do dumb stuff when they r on weed.....and people use in wrong way..... sure, let ppl wit cancer take it... but thats it..
-BigBOBCH
and they dont do that with alcohol?
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Wow, as if on queue, check this out, breaking news on CNN...crazy stuff...http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/08/pot.eradication/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/08/pot.eradication/index.html)
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Wow, as if on queue, check this out, breaking news on CNN...crazy stuff...http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/08/pot.eradication/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/08/pot.eradication/index.html)
Thats the kind of operations that would go out of business if MJ was made legal. We wouldn't have the illegal trade anymore. We would have legal farms growing it.
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Thats the kind of operations that would go out of business if MJ was made legal. We wouldn't have the illegal trade anymore. We would have legal farms growing it.
You have to give them credit. It was an ingenious way to get around the whole large-scale importation problem.
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Wow, as if on queue, check this out, breaking news on CNN...crazy stuff...http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/08/pot.eradication/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/08/pot.eradication/index.html)
Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!...... :cry
:rofl :rofl
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:rofl
Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!...... :cry
:rofl :rofl
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Weed illegal!!!! since when????
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You have to give them credit. It was an ingenious way to get around the whole large-scale importation problem.
I don't have to do anything. :P
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Was thinking about your transport issue zaz, you're right and it's bulk is the single most divergent aspect of cannabis over any other narcortic. While that is a hinderance in certain situations such as illegal boarder crossings and illegal mobility in general, it is infact no problem for those who have the power to move it once it is a 'confiscated package' within the boundries of the law.
The bulk means it is one of easiest narcotics to discover and sieze, make it legal and you've just taken away the cash cow that sustains between the higher value shipments which are harder to spot. Legal cannabis would not take any real pressure off drug enforcement agencies or their funding but it would add the need to fund a new division to stop the cannabis 'moonshine' elements....ok enough thinking back to friday.
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Was thinking about your transport issue zaz, you're right and it's bulk is the single most divergent aspect of cannabis over any other narcortic. While that is a hinderance in certain situations such as illegal boarder crossings and illegal mobility in general, it is infact no problem for those who have the power to move it once it is a 'confiscated package' within the boundries of the law.
The bulk means it is one of easiest narcotics to discover and sieze, make it legal and you've just taken away the cash cow that sustains between the higher value shipments which are harder to spot. Legal cannabis would not take any real pressure off drug enforcement agencies or their funding but it would add the need to fund a new division to stop the cannabis 'moonshine' elements....ok enough thinking back to friday.
Yup, that's why in Europe and Canada Hashish is the more common imported version. Hashish being the refined resin of marijuana without all the bulky extraneous vegetable matter. It's far more compact and therefore much more easily smuggled. The raw plant form is largely only that which is domestically produced.
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as someone who knows someone who once smoked a joint or something like that i can promise you the hashish quality in the uk is made with petrol and the cannabis is made of plastic, joe public is buying crap that probably doesnt contain thc in any ammount. Any decent harvest here is being shaken of its pollen and made into hash for export, the useless buds coated with fibre glass to look like crystals....so the good product is gone and the party animals keep buying the poison... no problem getting drugs out of course. The rest of Europe is very easy to travel around but no one can be bothered with risking the UK and our sheeple are so screwed on bad grade class A drugs also. only the less wild users who only smoke a few joints when the time is right and like to appreciate them are noticing but the hippy notion of peace, love and pure green grass has long travelled the road to the big city and got hooked on something jimi hendrix would have spat out and never smoked again.
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Amsterdam.
"Would you like regular, softpack, flip top box or bulk?"
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Amsterdam.
"Would you like regular, softpack, flip top box or bulk?"
:lol
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as someone who knows someone who once smoked a joint
Yeah.....but did they inhale?
:devil
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Weed illegal!!!! since when????
It's only illegal if you get caught.
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Yeah.....but did they inhale?
:devil
they said they didnt like it too much, probably wouldnt use it for more than 80 years or so.