Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Kaw1000 on September 05, 2008, 10:55:19 AM
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(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled.jpg)
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THIS IS WHAT THE DEMOCRATS, LIBERALS AND “GREENS” SHOW YOU WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT ANWR
…and they are right… these ARE photographs of ANWR
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled8.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled2.jpg)
ISN’T ANWR BEAUTIFUL? WHY SHOULD WE DRILL HERE (AND DESTROY) THIS BEAUTIFUL PLACE?
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WELL… THAT’S NOT EXACTLY THE TRUTH
Do you remember the map?
The map showed that the proposed drilling area is in the ANWR Coastal Plain
Do those photographs look like a coastal plain to you?
WHAT’S GOING ON HERE?
AND THIS IS WHAT IT ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE IN THE SUMMER
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled4.jpg)
AS YOU CAN SEE, THE AREA WHERE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT DRILLING IS A BARREN WASTELAND.
OH… AND THEY SAY THAT THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE EFFECT ON THE LOCAL WILDLIFE…
HERE IS A PHOTO (SHOT DURING THE SUMMER) OF THE
“DEPLETED WILDLIFE” SITUATION CREATED BY DRILLING AROUND PRUDHOE BAY*…
DON’T YOU THINK THAT THE CARIBOU REALLY HATE THAT DRILLING
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled5.jpg)
NOW, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE LYING ABOUT ANWR?
REMEMBER WHEN AL GORE SAID THAT
THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD WORK TO ARTIFICIALLY RAISE GAS PRICES
TO $5.00 A GALLON?
WELL…
AL GORE AND HIS FELLOW DEMOCRATS HAVE ALMOST REACHED THEIR GOAL!
NOW THAT YOU KNOW THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN LYING,
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
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The area where the drilling needs to be is a very small part of ANWR. There really is no reason to NOT drill there.
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Agreed. Drill away.
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DRILL, BABY; DRILL!!
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DRILL, BABY; DRILL!!
That's what she said! Woooooooo :lol
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No drilling in ANWR.
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^^*squeek!* ^^
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No drilling in ANWR.
Anyone who says we shouldn't be drilling needs to sell their cars, have their electricity turned off, and go back to a horse and buggy, and animal oil lamps. No computers, no modern technology at all, since EVERYTHING modern uses oil in some fashion to be used, produced, or shipped to market.
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Anyone who says we shouldn't be drilling needs to sell their cars, have their electricity turned off, and go back to a horse and buggy, and animal oil lamps. No computers, no modern technology at all, since EVERYTHING modern uses oil in some fashion to be used, produced, or shipped to market.
Or start using and encouraging the use of alternative sources! OMG! That would be soooooo horrible huh?
I say anyone who says we should be drilling in ANWR needs to sell their 10 MPG Urban Assault Vehicles first.
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Anyone who says we shouldn't be drilling needs to sell their cars, have their electricity turned off, and go back to a horse and buggy, and animal oil lamps. No computers, no modern technology at all, since EVERYTHING modern uses oil in some fashion to be used, produced, or shipped to market.
By the way, drilling now won't help oil prices for quite a while IIRC.
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(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled5.jpg)
I believe this photo has been deemed fake IIRC.
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Or start using and encouraging the use of alternative sources! OMG! That would be soooooo horrible huh?
I say anyone who says we should be drilling in ANWR needs to sell their 10 MPG Urban Assault Vehicles first.
I don't own a 10 mpg Urban Assault Vehicle and I still say drill in ANWR now. Drilling for more oil is only part of the answer, we also need to do more research into alternative energy sources.
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By the way, drilling now won't help oil prices for quite a while IIRC.
If you recall correctly from where?
Just the announcement that we are going to drill will lower the price now.
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Or start using and encouraging the use of alternative sources! OMG! That would be soooooo horrible huh?
I say anyone who says we should be drilling in ANWR needs to sell their 10 MPG Urban Assault Vehicles first.
I have three low MPG urban assault vehicles. I live in an urban assault zone, with gang bangers, corrupt cops...
If conoco wanted to drill in my back yard I'd still say DRILL, BABY; DRILL!
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How about this one is it fake?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled7.jpg)
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If you recall correctly from where?
Just the announcement that we are going to drill will lower the price now.
I've been'a Googlin', but can't find it, so I guess it's real?
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I've been'a Googlin', but can't find it, so I guess it's real?
Guess what's real?
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By the way, drilling now won't help oil prices for quite a while IIRC.
so they say.......bet it does though.
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The Caribou photo. I perhaps read it in a Fark.com comment thread where members debated it there. From everything I've search for, it appears to be authentic and I retract my statement unless further evidence is found.
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How about this one is it fake?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled7.jpg)
I don't debate the wildlife's co-existance with the pipelines and such. I believe the footprint for oil rigs in ANWR would be very minimal. I've seen that photo elsewhere and several others like it.
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(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled5.jpg)
I believe this photo has been deemed fake IIRC.
LMAO Fake?...Ive worked there Fulmar..you see more wildlife there than in our parks.That photo represents how wildlife and development CAN AND DO coexist here.Now go eat a veggieburger and save some whales.
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LOL.. so bongboy... you are saying that we shouldn't drill in ANWAR for the sole reason that you think we need to create an artificial drop in supply and increase in price in order to get us to all line up behind conservation?
There is nothing wrong with conservation.. voluntary conservation and there is nothing wrong with alternatives that compete on their own merit..
We need to drill and we need to explore every alternative.. more oil.. more nuke plants more natural gas and coal more everything that works and is cheap.
The country and the economy runs on us all being able to get around and deliver goods cheaply.
Why is it that liberals see every problems answer to be "create and artificial crisis"?
lazs
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We routinely work in sensitive areas such as caving grounds for mountain caribou when we are drilling. And I can speak from experience that the roads and trail networks that we have to put in are used by the caribou and the grizzly. The caribou like it because it is easier to move around when on a trail and they can see a lot further that in the bush. I have been on drill trails that are 30+ years old and you can still trace them out because the animals are using them now.
BTW you have to watch your back when drilling for the amorous bull caribou or a hungry Grizzly.
:aok
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(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled5.jpg)
I believe this photo has been deemed fake IIRC.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Kaw1000/untitled5.jpg)
Caribou travel in huge herds; I don't doubt this picture at all. I think what matters is how are the caribous being harmed? 98% of time they are out of sight of anything man made; they function just the same either way. 600 friggin moose trample all over Anchorage; they do just fine in the middle of a big city (except when they get hit by cars and trains); why would caribou care about big drills and pipes?
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I think anti ANWAR folks should take a trip to ANWAR; after hours of flying over nothing in Alaska it's actually kind of nice to see a speck of something man made...
Cast a handful of black sand onto a huge white sand beach; some folks will cry that its ruined, others will say that it still looks like the same beach. I bet 99% of the whiners have never truly seen wilderness.
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There is nothing wrong with conservation.. voluntary conservation and there is nothing wrong with alternatives that compete on their own merit..
He told me to give up everything or allow drilling. I told him to give up something to allow drilling. Seemed a broad statement would do just fine to answer his.
And you are quite right. Conservation has absolutely nothing wrong with it.
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Really it should be about energy independance. Drill now while the other "alternatives" are being developed.
Then we can thumb our noses at the rest of the world. Imagine what the Saudi's will have when we stop buyng their oil. NOTHING but sand and a few resort hotels.
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By the way, drilling now won't help oil prices for quite a while IIRC.
Then let's do nothing unless it changes things in... oh, say 8 days.
What does that leave us?
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I say IF elected, Palin should go Dominatrix on McCain and force that idiot to Drill in ANWR and seal the damned borders.
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The Caribou photo. I perhaps read it in a Fark.com comment thread where members debated it there. From everything I've search for, it appears to be authentic and I retract my statement unless further evidence is found.
It looks like the photo in its current form originated from anwr.org: http://www.anwr.org/Latest-News/Photo-Gallery.php
While this organization is obviously biased, the photo appears genuine. But as there are no shots from other angles, one cannot be 100% sure it is original because no credit has been given to the photographer.
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I have a question...
Who's to say that if we start drilling the a-holes over in OPEC won't cut production negating any gains of increased production?
We've shown what we're willing to pay... why would they allow the price to drop? They can maintain their reserves longer, sell oil at the price they want... seems to me like they've got us by the short and curlies.
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I say IF elected, Palin should go Dominatrix on McCain and force that idiot to Drill in ANWR and seal the damned borders.
:rofl :rofl :rofl God that's funny
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I have a question...
Who's to say that if we start drilling the a-holes over in OPEC won't cut production negating any gains of increased production?
We've shown what we're willing to pay... why would they allow the price to drop? They can maintain their reserves longer, sell oil at the price they want... seems to me like they've got us by the short and curlies.
The more we drill, the more we find.....the less we need them. Build enough nuke power plants, find some alternatives, , find and use the oil we have, maybe even find a better way to produce hydrogen that is actually feasible.....and the Arabs lose a customer permanently. I'm not seeing a problem. :D
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Nothing that I want more :aok
but that still leaves us with $5.00 gas
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Ive seen herds of Caribou in Alaska that took an hour to fly over. Literally the herds there blacken the land with their numbers. Any more conservation of those herds and they will be starving for lack of food. Polar bears are already over populated and thats why they are drowning after swimming for days to try to find their own territory IMO. Pretty sure the natives in the area would say the same thing.
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Nothing that I want more :aok
but that still leaves us with $5.00 gas
Suck it up till better times!!
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See Rules #4, #5, #7
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How about you sit on your thumb and keep hollering how your getting screwed....
ALternative fuels and sources are years away....so lets DO NOTHING AND SAVE THE FRKING LAVA LIZARD......tree hugger.
:aok
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Oh, thank you for reminding me not to vote Republican.
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ALternative fuels and sources are years away....
This is the way to go in comparison to drilling & it is technology that works Hitler kept his war machine running on it. Plus no huge pipe lines from Alaska to here in the lower 48 rail & road would solve all the transportation issues & it is still cheaper than drilling for it. http://governor.mt.gov/hottopics/faqsynthetic.asp
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(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_m-dT_6MCwOo/SE7WKVHeVxI/AAAAAAAAAGw/ySvBOrxaOks/SANY0419.JPG)
There are issues with FT coal technology too.
But we need to accept some of these issues for energy independance.
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This is the way to go in comparison to drilling & it is technology that works Hitler kept his war machine running on it. Plus no huge pipe lines from Alaska to here in the lower 48 rail & road would solve all the transportation issues & it is still cheaper than drilling for it. http://governor.mt.gov/hottopics/faqsynthetic.asp
Interesting stuff. America has huge reserves of coal also.
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By the way, drilling now won't help oil prices for quite a while IIRC.
Why do you want to delay for even one more day if you know we will need this resource ten years from now?
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If we had begun measures to increase energy efficiency 10 years ago, we could already be independent of middle east oil.
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Last time I looked, ANWAR was in Alaska.
Ain't it an Alaskan issue? Nobody in Alaska seems to mind drillin the hell outta the place, including the Eskimos.
Since the Federal Policy on offshore drilling has been relaxed to a 'state decision' on their coastlines, why in hell is there a problem with the Fed's relaxing the restrictions on ANWAR?
Politics, I'm thinkin...
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Last I heard, oil supply wasn't the problem. Refineries are the bottle-neck. The EPA put a massive restriction on them in the 70s. I don't even know if any new ones have been built in the USA since then.
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Can someone remind me why we purchased Alaska from Russia?
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By the way, drilling now won't help oil prices for quite a while IIRC.
Wrong. Oil speculators will lower the prices if they know oil will be available in the future. That means a drop in prices in the very near future once it is known that drilling will occur.
I say anyone who says we should be drilling in ANWR needs to sell their 10 MPG Urban Assault Vehicles first
And you need to stop going to the grocery store for your food since it's trucks that bring food to it.
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Can someone remind me why we purchased Alaska from Russia?
moose turd squeezings for surfboard wax?
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moose turd squeezings for surfboard wax?
Surfs up.
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Last I heard, oil supply wasn't the problem. Refineries are the bottle-neck. The EPA put a massive restriction on them in the 70s. I don't even know if any new ones have been built in the USA since then.
I think thats partly right.
But here's the deal....
IF...and lets just use a number here...If your spending 10 dollars for oil every month and you could save 1 dollar or maybe even 2....why wouldn't you do it? You need the oil...someone will drill it at thier expense....and you can save some money. No brainer. I relaise it's a bit more complex....but the fact that the U.S. is just sitting on quite a lot of oil , and yet people are still willing to just say nope...not doing it...no way is just beyond me. ANd the first words are...Well we need to become energy independent. Like that will just magically happen. Gonna take even MORE money to find all the way to get bio fuels , clean coal , on and on.
In the mean time because the tree hugger lobby and the joe do gooders stomp thier feet and throw tantrums the rest of us have to just sit back and take it.....
Well I for one say F that....sick of the whining...drill it and get started...while thats going on we can research and build nuclear plants. Build a couple more refineries and get started towards less and less money going out of this country and staying here to work FOR this country.
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This is the way to go in comparison to drilling & it is technology that works Hitler kept his war machine running on it. Plus no huge pipe lines from Alaska to here in the lower 48 rail & road would solve all the transportation issues & it is still cheaper than drilling for it. http://governor.mt.gov/hottopics/faqsynthetic.asp
Very intresting...One problem...Tree hugers crying when we start the mining process.
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Last I heard, oil supply wasn't the problem. Refineries are the bottle-neck. The EPA put a massive restriction on them in the 70s. I don't even know if any new ones have been built in the USA since then.
So build more refineries.....AND drill in ANWR. We will need the refineries anyways if they start refining coal to make synthetic fuel.
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Very intresting...One problem...Tree hugers crying when we start the mining process.
Hand the tree huggers a box of kleenex and tell them to get over it. This country has bigger problems than their emotional issues over mining.
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n the mean time because the tree hugger lobby and the joe do gooders stomp thier feet and throw tantrums the rest of us have to just sit back and take it.....
Well I for one say F that....sick of the whining...drill it and get started...while thats going on we can research and build nuclear plants. Build a couple more refineries and get started towards less and less money going out of this country and staying here to work FOR this country.
Quoted for Truth.
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If you recall correctly from where?
Just the announcement that we are going to drill will lower the price now.
I'm with you on that, Donzo! :rock
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Last time I looked, ANWAR was in Alaska.
Ain't it an Alaskan issue? Nobody in Alaska seems to mind drillin the hell outta the place, including the Eskimos.
Since the Federal Policy on offshore drilling has been relaxed to a 'state decision' on their coastlines, why in hell is there a problem with the Fed's relaxing the restrictions on ANWAR?
Politics, I'm thinkin...
Of course it is polotics the only reason they want permission to drill there is so they can set a legal precedent & then go drill any other place they choose to at a later date. If oil was found at Yellow stone for example they could always come back with well you let us at Anwar.
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So build more refineries.....AND drill in ANWR. We will need the refineries anyways if they start refining coal to make synthetic fuel.
Building more refineries will help because there hasn't been many built or rebuilt since the 70's........
Drilling in the NWR will only be a stop gap..... Imagine a tank full of oil with a few holes in it. drilling more holes in the tank is only going to make it empty quicker. Maybe drilling will reduce the price of crude for the short term but we have to look at the future and ask should we drill more holes in the tank or save some for future.
The refineries for crude are different than the ones that produce suspended coal fuel or coal gas.
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Of course it is polotics the only reason they want permission to drill there is so they can set a legal precedent & then go drill any other place they choose to at a later date. If oil was found at Yellow stone for example they could always come back with well you let us at Anwar.
Hell; if they found oil in Teddy Roosevelt's head at Rushmore we should drill for it. Ask Teddy... he wuz a Republican before they turned on him. ;)
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Building more refineries will help because there hasn't been many built or rebuilt since the 70's........
Drilling in the NWR will only be a stop gap..... Imagine a tank full of oil with a few holes in it. drilling more holes in the tank is only going to make it empty quicker. Maybe drilling will reduce the price of crude for the short term but we have to look at the future and ask should we drill more holes in the tank or save some for future.
The refineries for crude are different than the ones that produce suspended coal fuel or coal gas.
Of course drilling at ANWR is a stop gap measure, if that's all you drill for. I'm for drilling wherever we find the stuff.....and pursuing Nuclear power and any alternative power we can come up with. Drilling will help us in the short term while we get other things up to speed, bio diesel and synthetic fuel for instance.
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Lets face it. The price of fuel will NEVER go back down to where it was 10 years ago. We are nearing Peak oil production. We need to be looking at increasing the alternatives NOT drilling more. (Damn that sounds weird coming from a driller :rofl)
We have had the technology since Rudolf Diesel invented the Diesel motor to burn Coal. Lets convert to burning coal in our industrial machines. Go to a near 80%+ ethanol in our passenger cars. (Brazil can do it why can't we)
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I'm beginning to think most of you would drill in our national parks if they found oil in them. :noid
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I'm beginning to think most of you would drill in our national parks if they found oil in them. :noid
Clinton took a very rich coal mine and made it a national park and putting a lot of people out of work. I think they found a lizard or something and it had some unique trait and an environmental wack job gave it a special name but the same species is all over the southwest. Clinton just wanted to make a name for himself trading with the Chinese. I think Hangtime can probably tell you what that name is...
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By the way, drilling now won't help oil prices for quite a while IIRC.
Dont save for retirement then as well hippy
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Lets face it. The price of fuel will NEVER go back down to where it was 10 years ago. We are nearing Peak oil production. We need to be looking at increasing the alternatives NOT drilling more.
A lot of us are saying do both, drill and go after alternatives. I don't know of an alternative that is ready NOW do you? Synthetic fuel from coal isn't ready now, we need new refineries just for that.
There is a huge oil field that stretches across the Dakotas, Montana and southern Saskatchewan. I say we drill that bad boy also.
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Part of the issue is that oil rigs only have to produce a certain number of barrels a day here to considered a producer. I forget the minimum number that is needed so they meet this government requirement. They have the ability to produce many times more a day but they don't why? To keep demand high as well as prices. The oil is here & now but they have a lot of wells capped & only produce enough to get the Government perks. Corporate welfare at it's best.
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<Rant On><intensity="cat5">
We all know that drilling ALONE will not do the trick BUT let's remember that it IS a time-tested and proven trick.
I remember when in the '80s Reagan started some government synthetic fuels production program and gave enormous incentives for oil production - the result? In 1981 when Reagan took office Oil was about $70/Barrel He got all of these incentives into play and by 1982 Oil had fallen below $50/Barrel and by 1985, the price had fallen to about $20/Barrel. Oil remained low and plummeted to $12/Barrel in 1998 under Clinton.
Why did this happen? Because we looked and acted like we were serious about solving our problems ourselves, so OPEC flooded the market, forcing prices down and Our synthetics operation which can produce oil from coal at $40/Barrel was deemed a waste of money.
Our cars and trucks run off of OIL products right now... We cannot wait for synthetic/alternative energy, we must ease the financial burden on our People, Trucking Companies and Airlines right the hell NOW. We damn sure better pursue those alternatives (Except Food-Based Ethanol) like it was a Moon-Shot type vision. Those too caught up in the touchy-feely limpwristed environmentalism need to realize that communist china and russia are rapidly staking their claims to all of the oil and natural gas and coal they can. Where are their records on environmental damage compared to ours???
We cannot touch oil right off our east coast BUT the damned communist chinese and cubans have partnered to slant drill oil wells (Slanted toward US BTW) just 54 miles off our own coast. The Destin Dome, just off of Pensacola,FL, was leased by Chevron some time back. They found little oil BUT they did find 2.6 TRILLION cubic feet (That's 2,600,000,000,000 cubic feet) of clean burning natural gas. The government told Chevron that yeah... sure... you can drill there but, we are not giving you permission to bring the product ashore. So, Chevrons exploration money went down the tubes and we all had to pay higher and higher NG bills. This is not the only instance of the government not allowing petroleum to be brought in where a lease was purchased but it certainly is a glaring example. This was thanks to the idiot, GHWB. HE is the one who stopped the leases on the east coast.
ANWR is a barren wasteland. Or should I say the 2,000 acres that is slated for development is a barren wasteland... 2,000 acres is less than 2/3 the size of my uncles place! We need this oil, we need it now. We should cut all of the red tape and streamline every hurdle to allow drilling everywhere there is a proven reserve. Montana is sitting on a gigantic oil-shale reserve that we have not began to fathom its' scope yet. We are the "Saudi-Arabia" of coal. We were pioneers in nuclear technology. In our worst nuclear disaster, nobody died.
ANWR has between 6 to 16 BILLION barrels of oil and an estimated 34 TRILLION (34,000,000,000,000) cubic feet of natural gas! Lets go get it!!! The Bakken Oil Fields holds an INCREDIBLE estimated 100 to 400 BILLION barrels of oil. The Saudis only have 260 Billion Barrels. (I don't believe him but Leigh Price, an oil scientist had estimated Bakken to contain as much as 900 BILLION barrels.)
WHY aren't we ALL beating our congressman's doors down over this? My congressman and both senators hear from me regularly about what ever I am ticked about paying for unnecessarily whether it's the tax bill or the high cost of energy that we must use to work. The cost had risen so much that I no longer work for myself but took a job with a local publisher. I had 2 employees -they're still looking.
To those who compare ANWR with Yellowstone -Get a life -AND a CLUE. It would be like some idiots we have here calling a local swamp a "sensitive wetlands eco-system" that they want to 'protect' from hunters.
Boiling it all down, Our enemies, The arabs, the communist chinese, the russians and the cubans are all in a massive oil and energy production race. Europe did not listen when Ronald Reagan warned Europe against the russian oil pipeline, now Germany and other countries are being leveraged by the damned (boy i would get a PNG for using the expletive I wanna use) russians and were, this week threatened with an energy shut-off. Are you awake yet folks? The globalistmoronidealists (Like Bush 1&2, Clinton, McCain, Osamabama) believe that economic inter-dependence between countries can only foster peace - very very foolish. Individual independence is the only thing that can protect a nation from tyranny and extortion. We must get out of the way of our industry and let it do what it does best - WORK. I don't care much for Calvin Coolidge but he said one thing I read as a child that has stuck with me: "After all, the chief business of the American people is business." (Commonly shortened to "The business of America is business.")
Let's bring on the Hydrogen and fuel cell technology, synthetic fuels, non-food ethanol, nuclear power, coal, hydroelectric, solar, wind and all of the other forms of energy that we have not even thought of yet - AND the vehicles and equipment designed to most efficiently use all of them - BUT let's go get that oil NOW, my car, your car, the police car, the ambulance, the planes, the helicopters, the tanks, the ships, every item we produce that uses plastics DEPEND on oil. We must have it now, we must have it cheap and if it takes 10 years to get it, which I do not believe, especially if we wisely put in an express lane to do this, at least we started TODAY because we will need the energy no matter when it finally arrives on the market. Do these things aggressively and the 60% speculation bloat now in the price of oil will be GONE.
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</end rant>
Thank you and have a nice day! :D
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Think you will find Carter started it Regan ended it.
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Mr. No Name, you are dead on. :salute
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Being in the car bizz, I've been to many government auctions.
these cars are older and retired from service.
You would not believe the amount of cars the government uses that are run on natural gas.
there are two tanks in the car,a regular gas tank and a tank in the trunk that holds
natural gas.
we already have the technology for natural gas cars...hope we expand on it!!
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Oh, thank you for reminding me not to vote Republican.
Yeah, this thread is a great reminder. Differ in opinion and watch them tell you your dumb and only they are right. Yowzers.
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anyone notice that now old t boone is pushing cng more than wind? it seems only weeks ago that wind was gonna save us now it is cng.
We need to do all those things.. Drilllllll... Nukes.. wind.. solar.. alchemy.. cng.. coal.. oil shale..
we need some breathing room but we have all the makings for all the raw energy to run our entire country cheaply right here.. right on our own land..
Some of it we haven't figured out how to use.. or to use safely but.. we will.. it will take some time tho.
Drill for the crude and the cng big time... we need them right now... the rest will follow.
The arabs turn down the pumps? already they are realizing that most countries can't afford their new prices. They will have to lower prices not cut production.. we are the country most able to afford to buy anything.. including oil.. if we can't afford it then struggling countries will go tits up or.. at least.. cut down to nothing on their oil use.
That may sound good to some extremist algor-ites but the world runs on energy.. cheap energy cuts down on the missery factor. no cheap energy means death and missery for millions. slow death by starvation and disease.
lazs
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anyone notice that now old t boone is pushing cng more than wind? it seems only weeks ago that wind was gonna save us now it is cng.
The cng he is pushing is freed up from producing grid energy by producing the grid energy with wind.
Wind is step 1, cng for auto fuel is step 2.
We should do this, plus FT coal, plus nuke, plus drill (as T Boone says, "drill, drill, drill"), plus residential and commercial solar, plus tidal, plus wave, plus...
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T-bone is also pushing natural gas...maybe for his own reasons..but the technology is here!!
its already being used! This is where I put my vote, for a FAST alternative to oil!!
Natural gas is already here...natural gas cars are already here!!
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from what I have seen we have huge supplies of cng.. we don't need to "free up" anything.
They do blow some smoke up us tho.. why can they never help lying? they say that it is 40% cheaper.. that is not a lie.. but.. they don't mention it takes 40% more to do the same thing.. that is a lie.
lazs
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Yeah, this thread is a great reminder. Differ in opinion and watch them tell you your dumb and only they are right. Yowzers.
No.....
Drill for the crude and the cng big time... we need them right now... the rest will follow.
This is what you don't get. We need the oil, and we need it now. We will need the oil for a long time to come. We don't have a replacement for plastics yet and guess where that comes from?
We do need to keep working on bio diesel, synthetic fuels. better/cheaper ways to produce hydrogen, safer nuclear plants etc etc. Bit we still need the oil and always will until we can find something to replace plastics. We can probably make synthetic lubricants to replace the petroleum based lubricants, but so far, to my knowledge there is nothing even on the horizon to replace plastics.
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Coal has been used in diesel engines since the beginning of the diesel motor. What part of WE CAN DO IT NOW is hard to understand.
Mechant ships after WWII have used coal in their diesels to cross the oceans.
WE CAN DO IT NOW
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WE CAN DO NATURAL GAS NOW!!!
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There is many different energies we can do now but all I hear is poke another hole in the barrel.
Anyone ever consider that the energy crises that we are in might be engineered by the companies that will profit from drilling in the AWR. :noid
If large corporations get to drill in a park or WR what will stop them from mining coal or using the geothermal geysers in the national parks too. :O
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baitman, you don't understand, they want to find more barrels, not "poke more holes" in the same barrel.
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Coal has been used in diesel engines since the beginning of the diesel motor. What part of WE CAN DO IT NOW is hard to understand.
Mechant ships after WWII have used coal in their diesels to cross the oceans.
WE CAN DO IT NOW
Coal dust injected into the engines?
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WE CAN DO NATURAL GAS NOW!!!
Sort of.....still need conversion kits and a larger distribution system to be put in place if we are going to fuel all our vehicles with it.
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There is many different energies we can do now
So start naming energies that are ready now......
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baitman, you don't understand, they want to find more barrels, not "poke more holes" in the same barrel.
You don't understand, it is an analogy. The world only has so many gallons of oil. Say in a large barrel. The faster that it flows out the sooner it will be dry.
I am a driller. I understand this stuff.
We have to break the dependance of fossil fuels. :aok
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You don't understand, it is an analogy. The world only has so many gallons of oil. Say in a large barrel. The faster that it flows out the sooner it will be dry.
I am a driller. I understand this stuff.
We have to break the dependance of fossil fuels. :aok
You keep mentioning Coal.....that is a fossil fuel......
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They have the ability to produce many times more a day but they don't why? To keep demand high as well as prices. The oil is here & now but they have a lot of wells capped & only produce enough to get the Government perks.
No, that doesn't make sense. Oil companies make money by producing oil, not by sitting on it. If any of them had large enough market share it might be worthwhile to reduce production, but none of the western oil companies are anywhere near big enough.
I remember when in the '80s Reagan started some government synthetic fuels production program and gave enormous incentives for oil production - the result? In 1981 when Reagan took office Oil was about $70/Barrel He got all of these incentives into play and by 1982 Oil had fallen below $50/Barrel and by 1985, the price had fallen to about $20/Barrel. Oil remained low and plummeted to $12/Barrel in 1998 under Clinton.
Why did this happen? Because we looked and acted like we were serious about solving our problems ourselves, so OPEC flooded the market, forcing prices down and Our synthetics operation which can produce oil from coal at $40/Barrel was deemed a waste of money.
OPEC certainly didn't flood the market with oil.
In 1981 world oil production was 59.5 million barrels a day, 23.3 million barrels of which was produced by OPEC.
By 1985 production was down to 57.5 million barrels a day, with OPEC producing just 16.9 million.
What happened is that the early 80s recession, coupled with the price hikes, greatly reduced demand.
Our cars and trucks run off of OIL products right now... We cannot wait for synthetic/alternative energy, we must ease the financial burden on our People, Trucking Companies and Airlines right the hell NOW.
There is nothing the west can do to reduce oil prices NOW. Drilling in the OCS will take several years to increase world oil production by 0.25%. ANWR will take a decade to increase production by 1%. And of course, Saudi can cut production by that amount to keep the price high, as they have in the past.
The sad fact is western oil companies control only a tiny proportion of the world's oil reserves, with various despotic countries controlling most. There is nothing we can do to force them to produce more oil.
We cannot touch oil right off our east coast BUT the damned communist chinese and cubans have partnered to slant drill oil wells (Slanted toward US BTW) just 54 miles off our own coast.
Don't believe everything you read in an internet chain letter. Cuba has leased some exploration blocks 60 miles off the Florida coast, but not to Chinese companies, and there haven't even been exploratory wells drilled yet.
The Bakken Oil Fields holds an INCREDIBLE estimated 100 to 400 BILLION barrels of oil.
But how much of it is recoverable? According to the USGS it's 3.65 billion barrels, a report commissioned by the state said 2.1 billion barrels.
That's going to add up to less than 1 million barrels a day. The world currently uses 86 million barrels a day.
There's no good reason not to produce the oil, and the argument that it will take years seems to me even more incentive to start now, because we can't predict what the situation will be like in 10 years time. But don't make the mistake of thinking that the US can increase its oil production enough to make much difference to prices, either now or in the future. The only thing the US can do that will affect prices substantially is to develop alternatives to oil.
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ANWR will take a decade to increase production by 1%
The governor of Alaska says 5 years.
There is nothing the west can do to reduce oil prices NOW.
When Bush lifted the executive ban on offshore drilling the price dropped.
And of course, Saudi can cut production by that amount to keep the price high, as they have in the past.
And of course, if they do......no more F-15's for them. No more American weapons.....in fact.....just tell them....if you do, we bomb YOU......
There's no good reason not to produce the oil, and the argument that it will take years seems to me even more incentive to start now, because we can't predict what the situation will be like in 10 years time.
Hard to argue any of that.
But don't make the mistake of thinking that the US can increase its oil production enough to make much difference to prices, either now or in the future. The only thing the US can do that will affect prices substantially is to develop alternatives to oil.
It makes us less dependent on foreign oil. Anything we can do to decrease our dependency on others for our energy needs is a good thing.
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Coal dust injected into the engines?
That has been done.
An engineer at Defense Research Technologies Inc. of Rockville, Md., a research concern specializing in fluid control, has patented a device that makes it possible to power a diesel engine with a coal slurry.
The inventor, Allen B. Holmes, said the device could be an economical alternative to petroleum fuels for large engines like those used in ships and locomotives.
The coal slurry consists of roughly equal parts of water and coal dust, and it must be sprayed into a combustion chamber as a fine mist in order to be burned.
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How come when we're talking about US dependence on middle eastern oil, we keep hearing world oil market, world production levels, OPEC, etc.
How about we look at the immediate supply OIL problem as our problem.. not the worlds.. and we solve our problem using what resources and trade leverage we have with oil producers that are NOT middle eastern and are a lot closer to home?
I'm convinced we can get off middle eastern oil TODAY.. and we CAN get on Canadian, Mexican and South American contracts TODAY.
When the hell will our legislature stand up and issue the directive that we will no longer allow middle eastern oil into this country?
The only way to make the middle east irrelevant is to stop buying middle eastern oil.
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Only about 12% of our oil comes from the Middle East...the rest comes from Canada, Venezuela, Mexico, Nigeria, Algeria, Ecuador, and England.
So I don't think it would be hard to just shift that 12% to other sources (Not a big fan of Venezuela, though) or better yet, just fill the 12% with OUR OWN OIL!
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Only about 12% of our oil comes from the Middle East...the rest comes from Canada, Venezuela, Mexico, Nigeria, Algeria, Ecuador, and England.
So I don't think it would be hard to just shift that 12% to other sources (Not a big fan of Venezuela, though) or better yet, just fill the 12% with OUR OWN OIL!
Yup... but instead of breaking the problem down to a workable national demand and regional supply level, the debate ALWAYS gets shifted to 'world market'. Lets solve our problem first.
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For the guy who disagreed with my numbers about the Bakken oil fields, have according to almost every set of numbers I could find, between 200 and 400 BILLION barrels of RECOVERABLE oil. Perhaps one or two of the actual sites in the Bakken group of fields may reach 2.x Billion barrels, maybe those were the numbers you got.
One of the pools they described as a thin underground river of oil 12 miles wide and 50 miles long. The layer was so thin, they actually missed it on initial drilling because they went through it too rapidly. Environmental groups are putting up fights at every step to prevent the development of these resources. 20 years ago, we did not have the technology to recover this oil, but now we do.
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Yup... but instead of breaking the problem down to a workable national demand and regional supply level, the debate ALWAYS gets shifted to 'world market'. Lets solve our problem first.
It's usually people outside America that shift the discussion to *world market* issues. :uhoh
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One of the pools they described as a thin underground river of oil 12 miles wide and 50 miles long.
Next time you hear some one describe an oil bearing formation this way, do not believe anything else the person has to say because he knows less nothing of how oil is found in the ground. There are too many stock brokers that talk this way, run from them you will save money in the long run.
You keep mentioning Coal.....that is a fossil fuel......
I mention it because we could switch very quickly and easily and then it would give time for the bio and syn fuels to come into production.
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I mention it because we could switch very quickly and easily and then it would give time for the bio and syn fuels to come into production.
It is still a fossil fuel and it is a source of at least one synthetic fuel.
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It is still a fossil fuel and it is a source of at least one synthetic fuel.
CC
But do some research on where the majority of the coal is in the world though. US has the largest proven reserves of coal. Wiki it.
:aok
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The governor of Alaska says 5 years.
And her experience in the oil business is?
the EIA point out that the last 2 Alaskan fields to be brought in to production took 6 and 8 years, and that doesn't include the time to acquire and explore the leases.
When Bush lifted the executive ban on offshore drilling the price dropped.
You're not seriously suggesting that was the cause, surely? Seriously?
The drop in the oil price was caused by Saudi increasing production by up to 700,000 barrels a day in July, coupled with a reduction in demand due to recession and price hikes.
And of course, if they do......no more F-15's for them. No more American weapons.....in fact.....just tell them....if you do, we bomb YOU...
I don't think threatening to bomb the world's largest oil producer is going to do much to reduce the price of oil. That's why both the US president and British prime minister went cap in hand to Saudi to ask them to produce more oil.
The fact is Saudi actually cut production in 2006, and again in 2007, and that's one of the major reasons for the rise in the oil price.
It makes us less dependent on foreign oil. Anything we can do to decrease our dependency on others for our energy needs is a good thing.
It is. I'm absolutely in favour of the US drilling in the OCS and ANWR and Bakken. I just don't think it will make much difference, and I think if people expect it to, drilling could actually be counterproductive. The US needs to face up to the fact it is dependent on oil from some pretty dodgy countries.
How come when we're talking about US dependence on middle eastern oil, we keep hearing world oil market, world production levels, OPEC, etc.
Because oil is a world market.
Let's imagine the US totally eliminated ME oil imports, and instead imported only from Canada, Mexico and Russia.
What happens to Saudi? Do they get poorer? No, because the countries that were importing Russian oil will instead import Saudi oil.
There will be some effect on everybody, because oil will tend to travel further distances, which costs more, and there will be less flexibility in the refinery market, which will put up costs a bit further.
Now imagine there's a coup in Saudi. Is the US affected? Of course it is, because whoever was buying Saudi oil (say China and Europe) will now be buying Russian and Canadian and Mexican oil to make up the shortfall.
I'm convinced we can get off middle eastern oil TODAY.. and we CAN get on Canadian, Mexican and South American contracts TODAY.
You need more than just those countries.
The US consumes 20 million barrels a day. The US, Canada, Mexico and South and Central America between them produce almost exactly the same amount of oil.
But of course all the other countries in the Americas use oil as well. Canada isn't going to send all it's oil to the US, and leave none for themselves, neither is Mexico, or Venezuela, or indeed any country.
In total the Americas produce just over 20 million barrels but consume just over 30 million, so the US is going to have to import oil from elsewhere. And production is falling in North America (0.5% last year) and South and Central America (3.6% last year), so the problem is likely to keep getting worse.
For the guy who disagreed with my numbers about the Bakken oil fields, have according to almost every set of numbers I could find, between 200 and 400 BILLION barrels of RECOVERABLE oil.
Then I suggest you go and look at more rational sources. The USGS report is available on the net.
There's certainly a lot of oil in Bakken, but reliable sources say only a very small percentage is recoverable with current technology.
It's usually people outside America that shift the discussion to *world market* issues.
Perhaps that's because we understand the concept of a world market better.
If you are an oil producer in, say, Nigeria, who do you sell oil to? The US? Europe? Japan? China? No, you sell it to whoever offers you the most money.
The US can control its own oil supply, and make sure that all the oil produced in the US is kept in the US, but at the end of the day the US still has to import close to 14 million barrels a day, and it's going to have to do that at market price, because if the US isn't prepared to pay the market rate, there are plenty of others that will.
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The US can control its own oil supply, and make sure that all the oil produced in the US is kept in the US, but at the end of the day the US still has to import close to 14 million barrels a day, and it's going to have to do that at market price, because if the US isn't prepared to pay the market rate, there are plenty of others that will.
However, if we drill what there is domestically, fully exploit wind, encourage synfuel coal, build nuclear, natural gas, residential solar, and otherwise diversify our energy supply, we could reduce our foreign oil dependence massively to where a cut in supply from any one region or country would only effect the mix by a few percent.
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However, if we drill what there is domestically, fully exploit wind, encourage synfuel coal, build nuclear, natural gas, residential solar, and otherwise diversify our energy supply, we could reduce our foreign oil dependence massively to where a cut in supply from any one region or country would only effect the mix by a few percent.
And that's exactly what Nashwan fails to see....every time.
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But do some research on where the majority of the coal is in the world though. US has the largest proven reserves of coal. Wiki it
I know where it is. The US has some 250 billion tons of recoverable coal and that's just what we know about right now. It is equivalent to something like 800 billion barrels of oil, far more than Saudi Arabia's known reserves.
You've said we need to get away from fossil fuels, then keep pointing to coal.....coal IS a fossil fuel.....so which side of the fence are you actually on? :D
I know which side I am on, use the stuff. Get those refineries online, modify existing refineries if that's possible. Let's get independent of foreign oil asap.
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You're not seriously suggesting that was the cause, surely? Seriously?
It dropped the very next day.
And her experience in the oil business is?
the EIA point out that the last 2 Alaskan fields to be brought in to production took 6 and 8 years, and that doesn't include the time to acquire and explore the leases.
I think it's safe to assume she knows more about her own state than you or I do.
What exploration needs to be done in ANWR? They already know exactly where to drill, it's a 2000 acre section of the coastal plain. There is far to much red tape involved in setting up new oil fields in America today. Cut out much of that red tape and I'm sure things can be done far quicker than the 10 yrs all the *don't drill because it wont help* people are saying.
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Getting off foreign oil is a national security issue.
Can anybody dispute that?
What deeds have we done in the name of National Security?
What the hell are we waiting for?
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Getting off foreign oil is a national security issue.
Exactly. Every barrel, every gallon, every drop of oil that we drill for ourselves and don't import is a good thing and gets us closer to energy independence.
Energy independence should be a very high priority for this country.
I don't care if we have to tap cows farts for methane gas to power our cars, lets get it done.
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I know where it is. The US has some 250 billion tons of recoverable coal and that's just what we know about right now.
:aok
You've said we need to get away from fossil fuels, then keep pointing to coal.....coal IS a fossil fuel.....so which side of the fence are you actually on? :D
I know which side I am on, use the stuff. Get those refineries online, modify existing refineries if that's possible. Let's get independent of foreign oil asap.
:aok
In reality there are some places that we need fossil fuels (aircraft). But if we can remove fossil fuels from everything we can (home heating :aok) and shift to something that we in North America can control. Cars can run well on ethanol or NG. Buses and trucks can burn bio diesel or coal based fuels.
Most people will not switch however until it make economic sense.
Drilling in a park or wild life reserve is dangerous because it will set a precedence. :noid
I can't wait until the Chevy volt comes out. :aok
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I can't wait until the Chevy volt comes out. :aok
Why wait for volt when you can have a Tesla Roadster now... http://www.teslamotors.com/ (http://www.teslamotors.com/) :D
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Why wait for volt when you can have a Tesla Roadster now... http://www.teslamotors.com/ (http://www.teslamotors.com/) :D
I have been watching them also but they are a little pricey and the production is sold out for over a year.
I have heard rumors about the stability of the company also :O
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However, if we drill what there is domestically, fully exploit wind, encourage synfuel coal, build nuclear, natural gas, residential solar, and otherwise diversify our energy supply, we could reduce our foreign oil dependence massively to where a cut in supply from any one region or country would only effect the mix by a few percent.
Wind, coal, nuclear and solar will not displace much oil consumption.
More than two thirds of all oil in the US is used for transport. Most of the rest goes for plastics, lubricant etc.
About the only oil that could be easily displaced is that used for home heating, and that's a few percent of the total.
The problem with oil is that it's becoming too expensive. You can't solve that problem by proposing even more expensive alternatives like electric cars, cng cars etc.
In Europe we have very high fuel taxes, taking the price of gasoline and diesel to over $8 a gallon. Do you know what powers cars in Europe? Diesel and gasoline. Even at $8 or more a gallon, the alternatives are still more expensive.
There is one thing the US could do to eliminate its dependence on foreign oil, but it's unpalatable to most Americans. Tax fuel more. Get diesel and gasoline up to $8 a gallon in the US and you will use about as much per capita as western Europe, which is not much more than half what you use now. Do that and the US would need about 12 million barrels a day, nearly all of which would come from the US, Canada and Mexico.
I think it's safe to assume she knows more about her own state than you or I do.
She's a politician. You know, one of those people who lie for a living.
What exploration needs to be done in ANWR?
They have to explore to find where to drill. They know there is oil in the area, but not how much, or exactly where. From the EIA report, 2008:
There is little direct knowledge regarding the petroleum geology of the ANWR region. The USGS oil resource estimates are based largely on the oil productivity of geologic formations that exist in the neighboring State lands and which continue into ANWR. Consequently, there is considerable uncertainty regarding both the size and quality of the oil resources that exist in ANWR. Thus, the potential ultimate oil recovery and potential yearly production are highly uncertain.
They already know exactly where to drill, it's a 2000 acre section of the coastal plain.
I think you are a bit confused about this "2000 acres" thing.
The north coastal plain of ANWR where they want to explore and drill is 1.5 million acres. The figure of 2000 acres comes from a senate proposal that the total surface area of all the oil installations would not not exceed 2,000 acres. So that's, for example, 200 10 acre bases each containing a well head, helipad, couple of buildings etc (of course it would consist of lots of different sized facilities, that's just an example)
So no, there's isn't a 2000 acre plot where they know to drill, there's 1.5 million acres that have to be explored, because all they know at the moment is the basic geology of the area.
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Being in the car bizz, I've been to many government auctions.
these cars are older and retired from service.
You would not believe the amount of cars the government uses that are run on natural gas.
there are two tanks in the car,a regular gas tank and a tank in the trunk that holds
natural gas.
we already have the technology for natural gas cars...hope we expand on it!!
In Australia they have been doing this for almost 20 years or so. All gas stations have Petroleum & LPG gas pumps.
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anyone notice that now old t boone is pushing cng more than wind? it seems only weeks ago that wind was gonna save us now it is cng.
We need to do all those things.. Drilllllll... Nukes.. wind.. solar.. alchemy.. cng.. coal.. oil shale..
we need some breathing room but we have all the makings for all the raw energy to run our entire country cheaply right here.. right on our own land..
Some of it we haven't figured out how to use.. or to use safely but.. we will.. it will take some time tho.
Drill for the crude and the cng big time... we need them right now... the rest will follow.
The arabs turn down the pumps? already they are realizing that most countries can't afford their new prices. They will have to lower prices not cut production.. we are the country most able to afford to buy anything.. including oil.. if we can't afford it then struggling countries will go tits up or.. at least.. cut down to nothing on their oil use.
That may sound good to some extremist algor-ites but the world runs on energy.. cheap energy cuts down on the missery factor. no cheap energy means death and missery for millions. slow death by starvation and disease.
lazs
You assume that third world countries pay a lot or the same as us in the West? They don't most get it for pennies compared to the rest of us. Granted they only have pennies to spend though.
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No, that doesn't make sense. Oil companies make money by producing oil, not by sitting on it. If any of them had large enough market share it might be worthwhile to reduce production, but none of the western oil companies are anywhere near big enough.
You are thinking short term with this logic. So why do some companies only pump the minimum from the rigs instead of there maximum potential? Or then go & cap producing wells off?
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You assume that third world countries pay a lot or the same as us in the West? They don't most get it for pennies compared to the rest of us.
No, they pay the same for oil as everyone else. Of course the oil may be paid for with aid money from the west, but they are still paying market price for the oil.
Of course some countries subsidise fuel sales to the public, just as others tax it, so the price to then consumer can vary from a few cents per gallon to over $10. But the underlying cost of the fuel is the same, it's just a matter of whether the government is taxing or subsidising it.
You are thinking short term with this logic. So why do some companies only pump the minimum from the rigs instead of there maximum potential? Or then go & cap producing wells off?
They don't, unless there are technical reasons for doing so.
Western oil companies are actually producing far more oil than their reserves would suggest, which is why their replacement ratio is so low.
OPEC as a whole has a reserves to production ratio of 72.7, meaning their oil will last 72.7 years at the current rate of production.
Compare that to western countries where the oil companies are not constrained by government in how much they can produce:
US - 11.7
Canada - 22.9
UK - 6
Norway - 8.8
The western oil companies are producing oil as fast as they can, indeed in some cases they are reducing overall production in order to maximise current production. They want revenue now, not the possibility of revenue at some point in the future.
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someone asked what palin knows about the oil business, she was chairperson of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission : 2003-04
just the facts.
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The western oil companies are producing oil as fast as they can, indeed in some cases they are reducing overall production in order to maximise current production. They want revenue now, not the possibility of revenue at some point in the future.
That isn't making sense to me. You reduce production in order to maximize production for revenue now and not in the future? :huh
US - 11.7
That taking into account ANWR, offshore reserves and the Bakken oil fields?
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That isn't making sense to me. You reduce production in order to maximize production for revenue now and not in the future?
You can damage a field, and reduce its overall yield, if you take oil out of it too fast. You produce more now at the cost of less in the future, and less overall.
That taking into account ANWR, offshore reserves and the Bakken oil fields?
No. Those figures are a measure of how fast already explored fields are being worked, they aren't a measure of when the oil is going to run out. They ignore future discoveries. For example, the US R/P ratio was 10.8 back in 2000.
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OPEC as a whole has a reserves to production ratio of 72.7, meaning their oil will last 72.7 years at the current rate of production.
Compare that to western countries where the oil companies are not constrained by government in how much they can produce:
US - 11.7
Canada - 22.9
UK - 6
Norway - 8.8
The western oil companies are producing oil as fast as they can, indeed in some cases they are reducing overall production in order to maximise current production. They want revenue now, not the possibility of revenue at some point in the future.
Canada's proven oil reserves were estimated at 179 billion barrels (28×109 m3) in 2007. This figure includes oil sands reserves which are estimated by government regulators to be economically producible at current prices using current technology. According to this figure, Canada's reserves are second only to Saudi Arabia. Over 95% of these reserves are in the oil sands deposits in the province of Alberta.
At the current rate of production Canada will a reserve life of 182 years.
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Compare that to western countries where the oil companies are not constrained by government in how much they can produce:
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
(I'm sure you mean the daily mechanics of it, not the endless. mindless regulation, and outright opposition)
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There can't be oil in alaska.... I thought oil came from decomposed dinosaurs...and every good creationist believer knows that is impossible...so it would be a waste of money trying to get something that couldn't possibly be there.......
:uhoh
Drill now ... it is stupid to not do it...we are dependent on oil...we live in a society that even though has the capabilities to stop being dependent on it...we will continue to do so because it is one of our largest employers...one of the largest contributors to our gdp, including the auto industry... and the amount of danger to the planet is miniscule... if you really care - stop buying bottled water..the bottles are made from oil products..they are filling up landfills and will never decompose...two birds with one stone...Bottled water is for ijots...
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Cellulosic ethanol will eventually replace gasoline. Mark my words.
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Cellulosic ethanol will eventually replace gasoline. Mark my words.
This process was patented under Carter who refused to back it Congress denied bringing it to the floor for funding and their it remains. I believe the man who came up with the process was using things like wood chips and grass clippings to make ethanol fuel and it was cheaper then the process they use on corn now. Lobbied into non-existence the inventor moved to Brazil and made a fortune.
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Actually there are some pretty big numbers of wells that are either not pumping or pumping at low low levels here in the US. Some of them only just turned them back on when the prices went up. Anyone care to explain this? Good luck finding that kind of information. Most of it is hush hush so we don't all go stomp the fools doing it.
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Drill on and off shore !
Fire The Do Nothing Democratic Controlled Senate ..... that sits on their collective butts (adjorned by that crazy bitOch, Nancy Palosi) , picking their noses at home ..... throwing a well planned snit-fit...... While the working class is raped by OPEC !
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Drilling in a park or wildlife reserve is dangerous because it will set a precedence.
This would only be the beginning of a dangerous game where the government has said that park land can be used by large corporations.
Just because people don't want to pay more for fuel.
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Drilling in a park or wildlife reserve is dangerous because it will set a precedence.
This would only be the beginning of a dangerous game where the government has said that park land can be used by large corporations.
Just because people don't want to pay more for fuel.
It's not like they want to build a manufacturing plant.
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Would you rather have cheap fuel or the pretty park you can't afford to drive to? :)
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Drilling in a park or wildlife reserve is dangerous because it will set a precedence.
It's our National park, not yours. We'll do with it as we see fit, tyvm.
Just because people don't want to pay more for fuel.
It's not about paying more or less for fuel, it's about reducing our dependency on foreign energy as much as possible, preferably completely.
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Drilling anywhere inside of a park or NWR will set a precedence. Some times the solutions will create more problems in the future.
Years ago drilling was proposed for geothermal heat near the Old Fathful Geyser (NOT IN THE PARK BUT CLOSE) and it was shot down because it could have impacted the Geyser. If the NWR drilling goes through you can bet all your money that they will start the drilling, why they may even drill right next to the Geyser. To save some one a few dollars on the electric bill.
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It's not like they want to build a manufacturing plant.
I am in the drilling industry, I know how little impact the actual drilling will incur. That isn't the point. What will happen if some other resource becomes needed and it is in a park?
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Drilling anywhere inside of a park or NWR will set a precedence. Some times the solutions will create more problems in the future.
Years ago drilling was proposed for geothermal heat near the Old Fathful Geyser (NOT IN THE PARK BUT CLOSE) and it was shot down because it could have impacted the Geyser. If the NWR drilling goes through you can bet all your money that they will start the drilling, why they may even drill right next to the Geyser. To save some one a few dollars on the electric bill.
It won't be setting a precedent for Canadian National parks now will it? When our drilling in one of our National Parks effects a Canadian National Park.....get back to me.
Drilling in ANWR will take place in a barren coastal plain. It won't effect the fragile ecosystem of the park further south of the coastal plain, so your analogy to Old Faithful isn't quite accurate.
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What will happen if some other resource becomes needed and it is in a park?
You go get it, when you are done....you restore things back to the way they were before you started.
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You go get it, when you are done....you restore things back to the way they were before you started.
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x279/dogwood_03/Picture047.jpg)
Can't economically "restore things back to the way they were before you started"
An open pit will be open forever.
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(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x279/dogwood_03/Picture047.jpg)
Can't economically "restore things back to the way they were before you started"
An open pit will be open forever.
This thread is about oil, and drilling for it......not pit mining, that's an entirely different issue.
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What will happen if some other resource becomes needed and it is in a park?
You go get it, when you are done....you restore things back to the way they were before you started.
This thread is about oil, and drilling for it......not pit mining, that's an entirely different issue.
But it is what will happen if large corporations are allowed to use resources that are in a park. I never said that I was against the drilling because I know that it can be done with very little disturbance if any. It is the Pandora's box that will be open and can not be shut. And yes the relationship with the old faithful geyser is valid.
I don't care if you convince the others to poke another hole in the barrel doesn't affect me, just be careful of what you wish for.
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But it is what will happen if large corporations are allowed to use resources that are in a park.
Are any of Canada's parks going to be effected by drilling in ANWR?
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The problem that we had with the American Indians is that they eventually learned to read English and the treaties... I don't think we're going to have that problem with lichen and caribou... Drill! Baby! Drill!!!
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Are any of Canada's parks going to be effected by drilling in ANWR?
NO, I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THEY WERE, OR SAID THAT I AM AGAINST YOU DRILLING YOUR OWN PARK. I DON'T CARE.
What I have said that you can seem to understand is
"that it is going to set a precident and if it happens there will be no ground that will be left untouchable for anything"
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I DON'T CARE.
You obviously do care, because you keep griping about it.
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"that it is going to set a precident and if it happens there will be no ground that will be left untouchable for anything"
Pretty much that way now from the citizens perspective. A little thing here that allows the government to just do whatever the hell they want with private lands.. called 'Eminent Domain'.
(http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/05.12.11.EminentDomain-X.gif)
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Pretty much that way now from the citizens perspective. A little thing here that allows the government to just do whatever the hell they want with private lands.. called 'Eminent Domain'.
:rofl
Can't figure out why some people want to give away their (special) public or private land to corporations. :noid
Don't these people look ahead to the future and what they are leaving their children. :confused:
Smarter Idea would be to shut all oil production in North America down and use up the middle eastern oil first. At least your childrens children would still have oil.
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My own family lives pretty far north up there in AK. They're for it... I'm for it... everyone else gets to benefit from it. Drill away. ;)
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Can't figure out why some people want to give away their (special) public or private land to corporations.
It's not being given away to anyone. An oil corporation will lease the land and drill for the oil, but at no point they will own the land. This is just one step towards getting free of our dependency on foreign oil, including our dependence on Canadian oil.
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We need somebody to photo shop a pic of an oil derrick or pump on Mt. Rushmore....
;)
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:rofl
Can't figure out why some people want to give away their (special) public or private land to corporations. :noid
Don't these people look ahead to the future and what they are leaving their children. :confused:
Example from my family - Some relatives of mine had a gas station and curio shop alongside a key state highway. The state comes by with a big bagful of money from the feds, asking to buy a bunch of land to widen the highway into a new interstate. My relatives were like "yea sure" so they sold, but a few neighbors held out and did not sell.
The state gave the holdouts the finger and built the highway 10 miles away, leaving my relatives with half the property and a gas station that nobody ever stopped at. The whole town died in less than 5 years when the railroad also quit stopping there because there was no longer any way to transfer stuff from the rail to the interstate.
The whole dang area would have been much better off if everyone had coughed up the land needed for the interstate, but the holdouts forced the highway to be punched through far enough away that the whole town died. THAT is why sometimes it's a good idea to sell to the govt or private interests... Sometimes it's the only way to survive and prosper. But it still has to be measured on a case by case basis, and IMHO forcing people to sell their property to make way for a new mall is not justifiable because a community isn't going to die just because they don't have a wal-mart across the street.
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Can't figure out why some people want to give away their (special) public or private land to corporations.
Not only will they receive the monies from leasing the land, but they'll have jobs and additional income to all of the businesses in the area. Production = livelihood
Don't these people look ahead to the future and what they are leaving their children.
"These" people would be gaining more to give their children by the increased infrastructure up there. And everyone else's children & grandchildren down here gets to benefit from not having to be dependant on other countries for resources.
Smarter Idea would be to shut all oil production in North America down and use up the middle eastern oil first. At least your childrens children would still have oil.
You'll have to expound on that one. Using up all their oil first? That's not something they'd allow to happen at all. If they ever thought that they were drying up, who do you think would be the first to be cut off? And when that happens, what do our children & children have to fall back on? Nada
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including our dependence on Canadian oil.
Go back to school and find out who owns this Canadian oil you are talking about.
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Go back to school and find out who owns this Canadian oil you are talking about.
The oil is removed from the ground in Canada and much of it is shipped to the US. It comes from a foreign country, and that is what we want to eliminate, our dependency on foreign oil. Makes no difference what country the oil company is from.
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We need somebody to photo shop a pic of an oil derrick or pump on Mt. Rushmore....
;)
I got it started, someone else can clean it up since I am clueless on how to do that. Heck, I barely got the derrick on top of Mr. Roosevelt's head. :devil
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/Shooter912/800px-Mount_Rushmore_National_Memor.jpg)
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Not only will they receive the monies from leasing the land, but they'll have jobs and additional income to all of the businesses in the area. Production = livelihood
A better type of job would be a sustainable job. Oil patch work is well Patchy. Oil production has a finite life span. Much the same as a mine. The mine/ oil patch when it nears it end will not provide the jobs that people need to survive. If you want to see a town that is dead look at an old mining town.
A better idea for long term work and sustainable monies for the north would be to build prisons. Prisons and industry like this will provide jobs forever. I had discussed this with an elder the last time I was in the north and he was very interested in the idea.
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A better type of job would be a sustainable job. Oil patch work is well Patchy. Oil production has a finite life span. Much the same as a mine. The mine/ oil patch when it nears it end will not provide the jobs that people need to survive. If you want to see a town that is dead look at an old mining town.
A better idea for long term work and sustainable monies for the north would be to build prisons. Prisons and industry like this will provide jobs forever. I had discussed this with an elder the last time I was in the north and he was very interested in the idea.
How many prisons do you think a state with a population of 670,000 needs?
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The Idea that I past around with the elder was about federal prison (penitentiaries). If other states wanted to pay to incarcerate their long term offenders it could then become a lucrative long term employer.
Supermax!!!!
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Wind, coal, nuclear and solar will not displace much oil consumption.
More than two thirds of all oil in the US is used for transport. Most of the rest goes for plastics, lubricant etc.
Coal FT to liquid could. If Nuclear, wind, and solar supplant gas, like TBoone wants, then it frees the gas resourse for vehicle fuel. Gas can be refined into liquid fuel as well.
If alternatives to grid energy does even more and displaces some coal, then FT coal liquification has even more raw material.
So, wind, coal, nuclear and solar can indeed displace much oil consumption.
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A better type of job would be a sustainable job. Oil patch work is well Patchy. Oil production has a finite life span. Much the same as a mine. The mine/ oil patch when it nears it end will not provide the jobs that people need to survive. If you want to see a town that is dead look at an old mining town.
A better idea for long term work and sustainable monies for the north would be to build prisons. Prisons and industry like this will provide jobs forever. I had discussed this with an elder the last time I was in the north and he was very interested in the idea.
I've met a LOT of Alaskan prisoners---they were housed in private prisons in Tennessee and MN---it's a LOT cheaper for AK to pay others to house said inmates