Author Topic: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge  (Read 3858 times)

Offline Elfie

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #135 on: September 07, 2008, 07:05:51 PM »
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I DON'T CARE.

You obviously do care, because you keep griping about it.
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #136 on: September 07, 2008, 07:12:18 PM »

"that it is going to set a precident and if it happens there will be no ground that will be left untouchable for anything"


Pretty much that way now from the citizens perspective. A little thing here that allows the government to just do whatever the hell they want with private lands.. called 'Eminent Domain'.

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

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Offline Baitman

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #137 on: September 07, 2008, 07:26:57 PM »
Pretty much that way now from the citizens perspective. A little thing here that allows the government to just do whatever the hell they want with private lands.. called 'Eminent Domain'.

:rofl

Can't figure out why some people want to give away their (special) public or private land to corporations. :noid

Don't these people look ahead to the future and what they are leaving their children. :confused:

Smarter Idea would be to shut all oil production in North America down and use up the middle eastern oil first. At least your childrens children would still have oil.
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Offline texasmom

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #138 on: September 07, 2008, 07:32:10 PM »
My own family lives pretty far north up there in AK. They're for it... I'm for it... everyone else gets to benefit from it. Drill away. ;)
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Offline Elfie

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #139 on: September 07, 2008, 10:14:53 PM »
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Can't figure out why some people want to give away their (special) public or private land to corporations.


It's not being given away to anyone. An oil corporation will lease the land and drill for the oil, but at no point they will own the land. This is just one step towards getting free of our dependency on foreign oil, including our dependence on Canadian oil.
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #140 on: September 07, 2008, 10:20:58 PM »
We need somebody to photo shop a pic of an oil derrick or pump on Mt. Rushmore....

 ;)
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Offline eagl

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #141 on: September 07, 2008, 10:24:01 PM »
:rofl

Can't figure out why some people want to give away their (special) public or private land to corporations. :noid

Don't these people look ahead to the future and what they are leaving their children. :confused:


Example from my family - Some relatives of mine had a gas station and curio shop alongside a key state highway.  The state comes by with a big bagful of money from the feds, asking to buy a bunch of land to widen the highway into a new interstate.  My relatives were like "yea sure" so they sold, but a few neighbors held out and did not sell.

The state gave the holdouts the finger and built the highway 10 miles away, leaving my relatives with half the property and a gas station that nobody ever stopped at.  The whole town died in less than 5 years when the railroad also quit stopping there because there was no longer any way to transfer stuff from the rail to the interstate.

The whole dang area would have been much better off if everyone had coughed up the land needed for the interstate, but the holdouts forced the highway to be punched through far enough away that the whole town died.  THAT is why sometimes it's a good idea to sell to the govt or private interests...  Sometimes it's the only way to survive and prosper.  But it still has to be measured on a case by case basis, and IMHO forcing people to sell their property to make way for a new mall is not justifiable because a community isn't going to die just because they don't have a wal-mart across the street.
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Offline texasmom

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #142 on: September 07, 2008, 10:24:20 PM »
Can't figure out why some people want to give away their (special) public or private land to corporations.

Not only will they receive the monies from leasing the land, but they'll have jobs and additional income to all of the businesses in the area.  Production = livelihood

Don't these people look ahead to the future and what they are leaving their children.

"These" people would be gaining more to give their children by the increased infrastructure up there.  And everyone else's children & grandchildren down here gets to benefit from not having to be dependant on other countries for resources.

Smarter Idea would be to shut all oil production in North America down and use up the middle eastern oil first. At least your childrens children would still have oil.

You'll have to expound on that one.  Using up all their oil first? That's not something they'd allow to happen at all. If they ever thought that they were drying up, who do you think would be the first to be cut off?  And when that happens, what do our children & children have to fall back on?  Nada
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Offline Baitman

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #143 on: September 07, 2008, 10:32:08 PM »
including our dependence on Canadian oil.

Go back to school and find out who owns this Canadian oil you are talking about.

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Offline Elfie

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #144 on: September 07, 2008, 10:34:58 PM »
Go back to school and find out who owns this Canadian oil you are talking about.



The oil is removed from the ground in Canada and much of it is shipped to the US. It comes from a foreign country, and that is what we want to eliminate, our dependency on foreign oil. Makes no difference what country the oil company is from.
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Offline Elfie

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #145 on: September 07, 2008, 10:54:13 PM »
We need somebody to photo shop a pic of an oil derrick or pump on Mt. Rushmore....

 ;)


I got it started, someone else can clean it up since I am clueless on how to do that. Heck, I barely got the derrick on top of Mr. Roosevelt's head.  :devil

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Offline Baitman

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #146 on: September 07, 2008, 11:13:25 PM »
Not only will they receive the monies from leasing the land, but they'll have jobs and additional income to all of the businesses in the area.  Production = livelihood

A better type of job would be a sustainable job. Oil patch work is well Patchy. Oil production has a finite life span. Much the same as a mine. The mine/ oil patch when it nears it end will not provide the jobs that people need to survive. If you want to see a town that is dead look at an old mining town.

A better idea for long term work and sustainable monies for the north would be to build prisons. Prisons and industry like this will provide jobs forever. I had discussed this with an elder the last time I was in the north and he was very interested in the idea.
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Offline Elfie

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #147 on: September 07, 2008, 11:28:48 PM »
A better type of job would be a sustainable job. Oil patch work is well Patchy. Oil production has a finite life span. Much the same as a mine. The mine/ oil patch when it nears it end will not provide the jobs that people need to survive. If you want to see a town that is dead look at an old mining town.

A better idea for long term work and sustainable monies for the north would be to build prisons. Prisons and industry like this will provide jobs forever. I had discussed this with an elder the last time I was in the north and he was very interested in the idea.

How many prisons do you think a state with a population of 670,000 needs?
Corkyjr on country jumping:
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Offline Baitman

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #148 on: September 07, 2008, 11:37:16 PM »
The Idea that I past around with the elder was about federal prison (penitentiaries). If other states wanted to pay to incarcerate their long term offenders it could then become a lucrative long term employer.

Supermax!!!!
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Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #149 on: September 08, 2008, 09:45:46 PM »
Wind, coal, nuclear and solar will not displace much oil consumption.

More than two thirds of all oil in the US is used for transport. Most of the rest goes for plastics, lubricant etc.

Coal FT to liquid could.  If Nuclear, wind, and solar supplant gas, like TBoone wants, then it frees the gas resourse for vehicle fuel.  Gas can be refined into liquid fuel as well.

If alternatives to grid energy does even more and displaces some coal, then FT coal liquification has even more raw material.

So, wind, coal, nuclear and solar can indeed displace much oil consumption.

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