Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SPIKER on September 17, 2008, 08:29:17 PM
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They forgot to tighten the bolts that hold the tail on.
It will break off during a hard landing or if you let the
tail drop after breaking hard.
Like the 3D look.
<S>
Spiker
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I had an experience with the new N1K2J earlier today
most nik flyers should be familiar with the occasional landing where you slam on the brakes, tail stays up until your stopped, tail slams down and breaks off. which is why we dont slam on the brakes :)
I did it today, but after the tail broke off, the tail bounced, and continued bouncing, INCREASING in amplitude!
unfortunately, no film. I was able to .ef before it flipped over, i'm actually going to go try to recreate it.
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Same here.
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They forgot to tighten the bolts that hold the tail on.
It will break off during a hard landing or if you let the
tail drop after breaking hard.
Like the 3D look.
<S>
Spiker
I'll confirm that. 3 times I had that 2 were on the cv :huh
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Theres no red true air speed indicator either. Only the white land speed.
I dont like the new Hellcat, to be truthful. I dont like the views now.
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In defence of the new F6 it does feel lighter handling. A bit like the Fm2 in it's response at the helm. Wanted a good 1v1 with a zero but the opportunity didn't avail this evening. I think it has some potential.
Did loose site of cons in a 3 on 1 to the point of feeling flummoxed and flopping about like a newb trying to keep SA. However, if thats what the view is really like then so be it.
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However, if thats what the view is really like then so be it.
I agree. May not be the best, but the real pilots in real WW2 probably b****d about it as well. I'm fine with the historical aspect of it as long as HTC did thier homework thoroughly.
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I agree. May not be the best, but the real pilots in real WW2 probably b****d about it as well. I'm fine with the historical aspect of it as long as HTC did their homework thoroughly.
Agreed,I'm not flying it much anymore as i do a lot of flying alone and i really need to see my six,but as long as it is historically accurate I'm good with it.
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hmmmm. With the up back view being pretty clear a small half roll and slight turn could check your 6 very easily.
Now in a big furball you might have an issue doing that whilst some bugger is trying to shoot you but if he got there already you've already messed up ;)
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Guess we'll just have to learn it. If the plane is mor accurate now... then so be it.
Wow... just wow. :huh
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I LOVE the update on the F6F. Truly a great handling aircraft! I don't feel it's stable as a gun platform anymore, but that's probably because of the lighter controls. It seems to have more power as well, A6M's weren't too much trouble, but perhaps I got lucky. Good work HTC!!! :salute
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Agreed,I'm not flying it much anymore as i do a lot of flying alone and i really need to see my six,but as long as it is historically accurate I'm good with it.
This is now one of those planes where wingmen really help see and clear your six. It's still an effective attack aircraft.
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I didn't get a chance to fly the new F6 last night, but it was already one of my favorite planes.
As far as checking your 6, lazydog2 once told me much like Bruv119, that is someone is on your 6, you're already too late.
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I had an experience with the new N1K2J earlier today
most nik flyers should be familiar with the occasional landing where you slam on the brakes, tail stays up until your stopped, tail slams down and breaks off. which is why we dont slam on the brakes :)
I did it today, but after the tail broke off, the tail bounced, and continued bouncing, INCREASING in amplitude!
unfortunately, no film. I was able to .ef before it flipped over, i'm actually going to go try to recreate it.
Expect this will be an easy, quick fix. Seem to recall same thing happened to other updated planes in years past, and was promptly corrected in the first post-update patch.
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I just want the 6 view as bad as it used to be......I don't care if it's historically accurate. This is a game and The Hellcat is my favorite....I guess it doesn't really matter though, I rarely look behind me, but when I actually do....it would be nice to see something other than my own plane.
I always wanted a reason to betray my love and get with a corsair....now I have to modify another plane with an extra seat so I can entertain Rattfinks sheep....so much work to do.
Can't HTC just patch up the kitty's rear view? They are fine folk, and I can score some good Booze....I know some people at Bevmo.
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I noticed an even bigger bug. Every time some guy hit me with his bulits, stuff falls off of my plane. HT please fix ASAP please.
Oh, sometimes, as I fly around enjoying the view, I get back in the tower. :confused: FIX YOUR BUGS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
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I noticed an even bigger bug. Every time some guy hit me with his bulits, stuff falls off of my plane. HT please fix ASAP please.
Oh, sometimes, as I fly around enjoying the view, I get back in the tower. :confused: FIX YOUR BUGS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
Isn't that supposed to happen when you let someone shoot you with bullets? :huh :huh
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Isn't that supposed to happen when you let someone shoot you with bullets? :huh :huh
Let them? :furious I don't remember any of them asking me. It has to be a bug. Especially the tower thing
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did they add the -3?
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They forgot to tighten the bolts that hold the tail on.
It will break off during a hard landing or if you let the
tail drop after breaking hard.
Yep! http://www.savanne.org/ah/f6flasku.ahf :D
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Take a D-11 up and you'll notice the rear view is very similar, not really a big issue, just do the usual stuff like a turn or roll here and there.
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F6 has new pilot wound and oil stains ......cool
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I didn't get a chance to fly the new F6 last night, but it was already one of my favorite planes.
As far as checking your 6, lazydog2 once told me much like Bruv119, that is someone is on your 6, you're already too late.
ya low, but you know lazy too......he just uses the rest of us for bait. :rofl
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I didn't get a chance to fly the new F6 last night, but it was already one of my favorite planes.
As far as checking your 6, lazydog2 once told me much like Bruv119, that is someone is on your 6, you're already too late.
I put people on my six as a tactic i just dont let them crawl to far up it and if i cant see my six i cant do that.When you can get someone off your six that was already their i think your one heak of a stick,of course i think most people are less then great in the game,So they dont let people on their six at all or their in the tower.
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did they add the -3?
No.
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Take a D-11 up and you'll notice the rear view is very similar, not really a big issue, just do the usual stuff like a turn or roll here and there.
No this is much worse than the D-11.
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Yep! http://www.savanne.org/ah/f6flasku.ahf :D
Ha Ha yea after you get half a wing shot off land at 200 at a hard left angel braking your other wing off and then flip your plane I cant believe you lost your tail.But.....you lived! (http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee44/Bollymaus/Smilies/bravo.gif)
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I know for years us who love the f6 have complained and many were very happy to hear it was getting a make over :pray. There was a fairly short list of things that need to be fixed and not sure any were done :cry but no where could I find anyone asking for less visibility.
Very disappointed in the F6 even tho I still fly it. phttt
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Some of you guys seem to miss the point.
...AH is not about you getting to fly Wonder Womans invisible jet plane...its about recreating some WW2 birds.
The F6F did not have a bubble canopy, and if the cockpit is modelled after the real thing (which it is), then there is nothing to complain about.
Its hardly the only a/c with a restricted 6 view.
"I don't care if it's historically accurate." "This is a game and The Hellcat is my favorite"
Well, which is it? you want the Hellcat or you don't?
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Some of you guys seem to miss the point.
...AH is not about you getting to fly Wonder Womans invisible jet plane...its about recreating some WW2 birds.
The F6F did not have a bubble canopy, and if the cockpit is modelled after the real thing (which it is), then there is nothing to complain about.
Its hardly the only a/c with a restricted 6 view.
"I don't care if it's historically accurate." "This is a game and The Hellcat is my favorite"
Well, which is it? you want the Hellcat or you don't?
I guess I don't.
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I tend to break the back end off the 190d & the B5n alot with the hard break & stop.
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I'd rather have the flight model accuarate and be able to see my six..more or less, well more than less.
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>> I just want the 6 view as bad as it used to be......I don't care if it's historically accurate.
I concur.
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Some of you guys seem to miss the point.
...AH is not about you getting to fly Wonder Womans invisible jet plane...its about recreating some WW2 birds.
Heh. I like this. I agree with it, too.
- oldman
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and if the cockpit is modelled after the real thing (which it is), then there is nothing to complain about.
So the old one wasn't? :O
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I started flying the F6 last camp as my main ride and really loved it. I don't care for the new model and yes it is based on the rear view more than anything. I have no problem if they want to do it modeled as realistic as possible, but then model the other planes the same way. It's not so much the rear view has changed, but the ability to alter the view by moving forward and up in the cockpit is not allowed now, It is a bit frustrating to lose the view in a plane you are enjoying flying, and then jump in another bird which historically probably had just as bad of a rear view but the game gives you the ability to "move" better in that cockpit to facilitate a better rear view. Just my opinion
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Meh.
I love it.
The thing's a friggin' monster, able to do anything you ask of it, and the small price you pay is not being able to see behind you....just like the real thing :)
Great SA builder. Reminds me of the old wb 2.0 hellcat.
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LOL :D
From the original post...
Uh.. you might try reducing speed, dropping a couple notches of flaps and flatten out your glide path a bit before you make contact with the runway. :cool:
And attempting carrier landings on a paved runway will result in the same effect, there are not any arrester cables on this kind of runway.
I have not had any issues like this with the new F6. In fact I have found a quite increased performance all around in this aircraft. I like it. :cool:
Overall I have found an increase in performance of the entire game since this update. Not sure exactly what HTC did but I am very thankful. :aok
Later,
KayBay
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It's not so much the rear view has changed, but the ability to alter the view by moving forward and up in the cockpit is not allowed now,
It is a bit frustrating to lose the view in a plane you are enjoying flying, and then jump in another bird which historically probably had just as bad of a rear view but the game gives you the ability to "move" better in that cockpit to facilitate a better rear view. Just my opinion
MANY of us AH'ers appreciate the update greatly :aok but as you've read, View sounds like the biggest complaint and it seems, with a little number shifting could easily be corrected.
What do you HTC guys think? Is it worth your time
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MANY of us AH'ers appreciate the update greatly :aok but as you've read, View sounds like the biggest complaint and it seems, with a little number shifting could easily be corrected.
What do you HTC guys think? Is it worth your time
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I don't appreciate the updates and the game in general. To be honest since I have been playing AH (and it has not been so long) the F6F is the first plane I found that made me feel like I love playing this game and that I stand a chance of landing when I take off. To suddenly lose your rear view is not something I am in love with.
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So wait a second... you cant "move your head" and save views in the new Hellcat?
Is that what Im reading?
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So wait a second... you cant "move your head" and save views in the new Hellcat?
Is that what Im reading?
I'm not sure, but there is something odd going on, because my views from the old model seem to have been saved, and work, in the new model (based on the gunsight being higher than normal).
That never worked before with other models... I recall I always had to redo the views for them after they were updated.
Maybe something is up?
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Try it out. Head movement is limited severely.
I also felt like roll was reduced, and the overall plane performance was very sluggish. I asked somebody online who was flying one if it felt sluggish, and he seemed surprised and said "You know what? It DOES feel sluggish!"
Not sure if it's "right" or not, as-is.
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Love the New Hellcat! Outstanding work :aok
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Try it out. Head movement is limited severely.
I also felt like roll was reduced, and the overall plane performance was very sluggish. I asked somebody online who was flying one if it felt sluggish, and he seemed surprised and said "You know what? It DOES feel sluggish!"
Not sure if it's "right" or not, as-is.
I use the F6 alot and to me it seems more responsive. Seems to turn better than before and no problem with rolling scissors. Would take on a zero and feel confident until I lost sight of him. Just can't get me head around the side enough.
PS. my views were saved from the previous F6 and as much as I've tried I just can't improve upon it.
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I demand someone post a screenshot.
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i pretty much hate to say this, but.....i don't think i'll be in my hellkitty for awhile. it's more like a kitten waiting to be stepped on. can't see watermelon out the back, and it feels VERY fragile now. i got barley tagged by a 38, and my entire right wing vsanished. never had a 38 do that before.
the side views, the 1/4 views, and all of the rear views are porked. it pretty much sucks now.
guess i'm back to bein a spit dweeb.
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I LOVE THE NEW F6F!
sorry if I was ""screaming""
Great work on the new model
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From a squaddie:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/sence-say/ahss46.jpg)
Deal with it!
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I use the F6 alot and to me it seems more responsive. Seems to turn better than before and no problem with rolling scissors. Would take on a zero and feel confident until I lost sight of him. Just can't get me head around the side enough.
PS. my views were saved from the previous F6 and as much as I've tried I just can't improve upon it.
I very much agree with you. It is smooooooooth :)
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Cry, cry, my gentle snowflakes...
...It's such a shame that you can't have your way all the time. No, really, it is. "I'd love it if we could have an accurate flight model, but an invisible body when looking behind so I can see everything" isn't very far from "I'd love it if we could have an accurate flight model, but give us deployable turbofans for when we need to escape that bastard who's on our six that we can't seem to ever shake for the life of us". Do you think it was easy, nee possible, for pilots in Hellcats to see what was going on directly behind them? No way in hell. Why should it be any different here? Quite a few of you complain about there not being enough "realism", and then you turn 360 degrees and cry about some things not being easy enough.
You wanna play on easy mode? Go play Il-2 or CFS. Get real or get out, and get over yourselves.
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I know you CM guys are all for it but your out #ed big time in the main. Lots of negative talk on F6F-5 tonight. You have to remember most people don't post here on the BB, but lots look. 50 posts and 1305 views so far.
Some of the comments made tonight were:
Can't wait to see some stupid Bast up in one ...which was the worst to hear. Maybe just drunk talk.
I'll in on every one I see.
Going to be easy kills... that one sucked
Was one of the best all a rounders now bottom of my list :( :(
Hitech porked the F4U-c and now broke the F6.....I know the f4u-c was king for a long time and has been neutered since but it's still a good plane IMO..don't fly it to much tho.
My comment tonight was... I still fly it, I still get kills but man does it suck. Maybe hitech will fix it or expand head movement to where it was.
In the short term, dealing with it will be one thing but others will just move on to better planes keeping an eye out for them because they're at an even bigger disadvantage. I used to get ganged hard in them before, probably because they know most come up heavy from a CV. IMO, It just joined the ranks of the p47 in targets you'll choose to in on before others for an easier kill.
Before I get hammered on that last statement, I know most feel that way about the p47 and I know not all p47 pilots are easy kills.
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F6F isn't broke, it's historically correct whiners. Couldn't say it any better than what Fruda said.
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Realistically, the best rear views i can get unlike ratfinks squadie that made it look worse.
No side views and less rear and upper view.
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss105.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss104.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss106.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss107.jpg)
Historically this is what it may or may not have been like but for sure it was faster and turned better in real life according to the stats.
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Dont fly straight and level for more then 20 seconds... EVER!
Land in three point stance.
Problem solved.
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I wish HT would remove the Linda Blair views all together.
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Cry, cry, my gentle snowflakes...
...It's such a shame that you can't have your way all the time. No, really, it is. "I'd love it if we could have an accurate flight model, but an invisible body when looking behind so I can see everything" isn't very far from "I'd love it if we could have an accurate flight model, but give us deployable turbofans for when we need to escape that bastard who's on our six that we can't seem to ever shake for the life of us". Do you think it was easy, nee possible, for pilots in Hellcats to see what was going on directly behind them? No way in hell. Why should it be any different here? Quite a few of you complain about there not being enough "realism", and then you turn 360 degrees and cry about some things not being easy enough.
You wanna play on easy mode? Go play Il-2 or CFS. Get real or get out, and get over yourselves.
because this is a GAME you asssshole, not r/l
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MANY of us AH'ers appreciate the update greatly :aok but as you've read, View sounds like the biggest complaint and it seems, with a little number shifting could easily be corrected.
What do you HTC guys think? Is it worth your time
yeah HTC, while your at it, do a little number shifting on the rest of the planes too why stop with the f6f when we can manipulate all of the cartoon planes and take over the world :devil
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yeah HTC, while your at it, do a little number shifting on the rest of the planes too why stop with the f6f when we can manipulate all of the cartoon planes and take over the world :devil
If we are going to start number shifting, start with changing how a Spitty can shoot down 24's so easily,,,, thats a start.
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Stop whineing. You guys asked for the F6F to get fixed, now it is fixed historically even with the bad Six view now You're STILL complaining to turn it back into it's broken stage? Go fly some other plane if you can't handle the new view.
Do what i do, when we do F6F runs, fly with a WINGMAN. It's more of a teamwork oriented plane now anyhow so suck it up and stop crying like 3 year olds who's mother took your favorite toy for being bad.
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From a squaddie:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/sence-say/ahss46.jpg)
Deal with it!
I see how it is.....that's a sweet view. Forgive me for having an opinion. I guess I'll have to "deal with it"
Stop whineing. You guys asked for the F6F to get fixed, now it is fixed historically even with the bad Six view now You're STILL complaining to turn it back into it's broken stage? Go fly some other plane if you can't handle the new view.
Do what i do, when we do F6F runs, fly with a WINGMAN. It's more of a teamwork oriented plane now anyhow so suck it up and stop crying like 3 year olds who's mother took your favorite toy for being bad.
Was waiting for that one, and I actually agree. I wanted it updated because I flew it more than any other plane. I like carrier planes and always had a "thing" for the hellcat. I guess I'm just a crying 3 year old because I can't see anything behind me...oh well.. I never looked anyway. It's a great plane to fly...and other than the 6 view, it is better than ever.
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I don't know, maybe the problem is with the size of the "pilot's" head. Don't laugh. Unlike the later Jugs and Ponys the Hellcats did not have a bubble canopy, just a little blister on top. Essentially the glass was smooth and flowed right into the armor and fuselage behind the pilot. The widest part of the cockpit glass appears to be just aft the instrument panel, making it impossible to get your body in a position to take advantage of the slight angle in the glass from front to back. Also if you press your face or ear against a window in your house you probably won't be able to see the outside wall because the distance between the side of your head and your eye is enough to prevent a good viewing angle. I know if I press my cheek and nose against the window at the same time it is better but HTC probably has not programed this into the views we have (when we look out the back at an angle we might be able to see it if we had peripheral vision maybe now with the 3 screen support that would be possible.). I also don't know what measurements they have used to determine the diameter of the pilots head, if they have used pumpkin head dimensions it is going to affect how close to the window your eyes can get. I imagine pin-head dimensions would help the rear view the most without spoiling the accuracy of the 3D model.
There is a reason the Americans developed defensive maneuvers such the Thatch weave and flew with wingmen and in the finger four formation. The F6f was an offensive weapon with lots of armor to make up for the poor defensive visibility.
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ok, leme ask you guys this then?
i spent most of my first flight trying to adjust my views. i got the side views almost bearable.
now i get over a vbase, and in on a p38. he goes for the typical ho shot, which i dodged....didn't hear, feel, or see any hits on me. he tries to line up another, and in this dodge, i try to set myself up to come round on him, but he gets around faster, and gets off a quick snapshot. it didn't seem like too much, and he was about 400 or so out(i think). no major sounding hits, but my right wing was suddenly gone.
it just seemed as if the cat didn't take the damage she used to take, or should take.
you guys that like the historically right stuff, weren't the hellcats notoriously tough?
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If a P-38 landed hits on your wing, there's no convergence issues, so that's the full 4x.50cal + 1 hizooka effect.
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Lagger, i wasn't pointing fingers at anyone sir. I'm a P47 pilot but since the new update I'm in love with the new F6F... Just because it's a sparkling image of the F6F-5 in my plane book " American Warplanes of WW2 ". it just looks like a winner and flies like one too!
It's a wingman plane now. So i suggest if you're a carrier based hellcat squadron you gent's had better start some hardcore wingman training to battle that deadly six view. It's not impossible because i've personally started running more and more hellcat runs on rook nation to get the guys into the habbit of flying with a wingman and working as a team or group.
Much fun ;)
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ok, leme ask you guys this then?
i spent most of my first flight trying to adjust my views. i got the side views almost bearable.
now i get over a vbase, and in on a p38. he goes for the typical ho shot, which i dodged....didn't hear, feel, or see any hits on me. he tries to line up another, and in this dodge, i try to set myself up to come round on him, but he gets around faster, and gets off a quick snapshot. it didn't seem like too much, and he was about 400 or so out(i think). no major sounding hits, but my right wing was suddenly gone.
it just seemed as if the cat didn't take the damage she used to take, or should take.
you guys that like the historically right stuff, weren't the hellcats notoriously tough?
I'm with gavagai here. I don't think any plane in the game ( besides bombers ) can take a concentrated pass of the P38s guns. If he got a good burst on you, you were going down anyhow. But yes the Hellcats were tough... Not again 4x50 cals and a Hispano 20mm cannon with no convergence issues.
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I'm with gavagai here. I don't think any plane in the game ( besides bombers ) can take a concentrated pass of the P38s guns. If he got a good burst on you, you were going down anyhow. But yes the Hellcats were tough... Not again 4x50 cals and a Hispano 20mm cannon with no convergence issues.
THAT CULD BE AS HE WAS FARL CLOSE. i just didn't think the hits sounded that hard. i think i had film running, so i'll go check it tonight. i've been heistatnt on running film sometimes, as my puter seems to freeze for about 3 seconds when i hit alt r for the first time after i logged in.
side note, i think i have mr non-ho'in king of happiness on film hoing....but then again, so did i. :devil
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Cap1, there also may be an issue with the sound after the new version of the F6f came out. Maybe not all the hits are being associated with the appropriate sound bite. Are you using the stock sounds or USRanger's or Mitsu's custom sound packs? If you are using custom sounds maybe you need to reload the sound pack. :aok
*edit* USRanger mentioned in his sound pack sticky thread in the "custom sounds and skins board" on the 17th of this month that he needs time to update the sound pack for the new version.
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Cap1, there also may be an issue with the sound after the new version of the F6f came out. Maybe not all the hits are being associated with the appropriate sound bite. Are you using the stock sounds or USRanger's or Mitsu's custom sound packs? If you are using custom sounds maybe you need to reload the sound pack. :aok
i have all the stock sounds......i'm a lazy bastage....even too lazy to d/l the better soundpacks :D
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because this is a GAME you asssshole, not r/l
:lol
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F6F isn't broke, it's historically correct whiners. Couldn't say it any better than what Fruda said.
How do you know that it's historically correct? What's your source?
The fact is that you don't know. Neither does Fruda or MjTalon. However, that doesn't appear to prevent them from appointing themselves experts.
I have had the opportunity to sit in and ride the brakes on an F6F-5 we were towing and I could see to the rear much better than I can in this new graphic modeling. Head movement is far too restrictive in the new reworked model. There's only about 6" of lateral head movement to each side, about 1/2 that of the F4Us. You cannot get anywhere near the glass on either side, whereas you can with the F4U. Indeed, the rearward view from the F6F wasn't great, but it was "adequate" according to those who flew it in combat. In our case, rear vision is virtually nil, with about a 45 degree blind area, as opposed to the real Hellcat's actual 20 degree blind area (10 degrees to either side).
Rear vision suffers because you cannot lean far enough to the sides to see around the armor plate. This is a problem that needs to be fixed.
My regards,
Widewing
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Told ya.....Widewing is the expert, many hours of outside testing using actual fact from reliable sources you can trust. He's spot on and a without a doubt a true WWll war plane enthusiast.
Search out his testing posts ,..... they go way back.
My opinion remains:
The F6 is tolerable, from where it was enjoyable
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Stop whineing. You guys asked for the F6F to get fixed, now it is fixed historically even with the bad Six view now You're STILL complaining to turn it back into it's broken stage? Go fly some other plane if you can't handle the new view.
I don't recall anyone ever asking to fix anything about the F6F beyond its performance curve (speed over altitude). As far as that goes, it wasn't corrected in this update. We still have an F6F-5 that is slower than Navy test data shows for the F6F-3.
Let's stick to true facts instead of those you invent in your head.
Fact: The F6F modeling offers very limited head position adjustment, about 1/2 that of the F4U.
Fact: A real F6F had a 20 degree (inclusive) blind area behind. The current modeling is around 45 degrees (again, inclusive).
Fact: Real F6Fs had a mirror installed to eliminate the 20 degree blind area.
Fact: Mirrors are not modeled in Aces High.
Solution: Provide enough head movement range to get close enough to the canopy glass to see around the armor plate and pull back far enough to see all instruments (temp gauge).
Rear of cockpit on actual F6F-5:
(http://www.cybermodeler.net/aircraft/f6f/images/f6f_08.jpg)
Rear of cockpit, current F6F modeling:
(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/F6FRear.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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Fact: Mirrors are not modeled in Aces High.
I've heard that Hitec has mentioned mirrors are not modeled because of the effect it would have on frame rates. I'm wonering instead of actually putting mirrors in the cockpit, if making the six view a mirror view in aircraft that depended on mirrors to enhance the six view would work instead. If I remember right this feature was used in the Old Kesimai Air Warrior. Just an idea, not saying it's a good one.
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A8TOOL, I may be a CM but I am expressing my own opinion on the subject. There may be CM's that don't agree.
=WW=, I agree that the F6F-5 is slower than the F6F-3.
I am loving the new F6F. If you take the 6 view and bars around the cockpit out of the equation (which are historically accurate) the F6F is even better then it was. It is smoother and maneuvers a lot better.
I will adapt to this new version.
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I am loving the new F6F. If you take the 6 view and bars around the cockpit out of the equation (which are historically accurate) the F6F is even better then it was. It is smoother and maneuvers a lot better.
I will adapt to this new version.
My point is that the current rear view is not historically accurate.
Here's two images to better illustrate my point.
(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/AH2-F6F-BlindZone.jpg)
(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/Real-F6F-BlindZone.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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hmmmmm, I see your point. Thank you =WW=!
Did we have the second blind area before?
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hmmmmm, I see your point. Thank you =WW=!
Did we have the second blind area before?
Yes. Many types had blind areas directly behind, with the F4F series being one of the worst. However, these fighters had mirrors to cover the blind area.
My regards,
Widewing
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Mirrors-we don't want to go there. I have Il2. The complexity of mirrors vs. how useful they are to you on a computer screen is not worth it. A liberally adjustable rear view is a much better compromise solution. As are liberally adjustable view in all directions and perhaps even thinner frames in certain planes, in compensation for the fact that most of us are looking around with keys and joystick buttons and don't have the scanning ease or the 6 degrees of freedom in head movement you have in R/L.
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I don't recall anyone ever asking to fix anything about the F6F beyond its performance curve (speed over altitude). As far as that goes, it wasn't corrected in this update. We still have an F6F-5 that is slower than Navy test data shows for the F6F-3.
Let's stick to true facts instead of those you invent in your head.
Fact: The F6F modeling offers very limited head position adjustment, about 1/2 that of the F4U.
Fact: A real F6F had a 20 degree (inclusive) blind area behind. The current modeling is around 45 degrees (again, inclusive).
Fact: Real F6Fs had a mirror installed to eliminate the 20 degree blind area.
Fact: Mirrors are not modeled in Aces High.
Solution: Provide enough head movement range to get close enough to the canopy glass to see around the armor plate and pull back far enough to see all instruments (temp gauge).
Rear of cockpit on actual F6F-5:
(http://www.cybermodeler.net/aircraft/f6f/images/f6f_08.jpg)
Rear of cockpit, current F6F modeling:
(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/F6FRear.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
Where does the 20 degrees come from? Also interesting that you compare an open cockpit with a closed one, and a photo taken from the front floor vs a piccie from a higher perspective . If you follow the lines in your diagram I'm at a loss to see how that 20 degrees works without the pilot poking his head out or having his head mounted on the engine block?
I'm no expert on the F6F, just saying if I look at your 'facts' they don't make sense in this regard.
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I am :confused: How can everything always be historically accurate before a change and after a change? I have never seen so match accuracy in my life. :rofl
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Where does the 20 degrees come from? Also interesting that you compare an open cockpit with a closed one, and a photo taken from the front floor vs a piccie from a higher perspective . If you follow the lines in your diagram I'm at a loss to see how that 20 degrees works without the pilot poking his head out or having his head mounted on the engine block?
I'm no expert on the F6F, just saying if I look at your 'facts' they don't make sense in this regard.
I got the 20 degrees from Grumman's General Specification for the XF6F-3.
(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/RearVizXF6F-3.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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I finally got to fly my beloved F6F tonight. I LOVE the new cockpit (except for the rear view). It was always bad but its REALLY bad now. I hope it gets fixed.
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I got the 20 degrees from Grumman's General Specification for the XF6F-3.
(http://home.att.net/~c.c.jordan/RearVizXF6F-3.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
Manufacturer specification? Looks a little optimistic IMHO. And those extra windows behind the pilot in the XF6F-3 seemed to be solid metal panels in the product F6F-5. So are you comparing apples with oranges perhaps?
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(http://www.americancombatplanes.com/images/23-38n.jpg)
(http://www.americancombatplanes.com/images/23-39n.jpg)
(http://www.americancombatplanes.com/images/23-42n.jpg)
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Manufacturer specification? Looks a little optimistic IMHO. And those extra windows behind the pilot in the XF6F-3 seemed to be solid metal panels in the product F6F-5. So are you comparing apples with oranges perhaps?
The quarter windows were eliminated after 1960 F6F-5s were built. So, about 1/4 of the production F6F-5s had the windows. They were eliminated because the pilot's view was unchanged with them gone. The best rear view was accomplished by resting ones head on the canopy glass and looking back along the tapering fuselage.
My regards,
Widewing
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Here's a screen-shot to highlight the issue.
(http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/F6Fview.jpg)
I was in the cockpit and used mouse lock to look at (approximately) my 1 O'clock position then hit F3 to go to external mode. From this position you can still see the gunsight. So following the reciprocal view, looking at my 7 O'clock I should see approximately 1/3 of the elevator which I can't see, regardless of how I manipulate the views currently.
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The quarter windows were eliminated after 1960 F6F-5s were built. So, about 1/4 of the production F6F-5s had the windows. They were eliminated because the pilot's view was unchanged with them gone. The best rear view was accomplished by resting ones head on the canopy glass and looking back along the tapering fuselage.
My regards,
Widewing
So that to me seems to be where the issue lies, that extra windowing. AH kind of models headspace, from the feel I get, so like in real life you cannot plant your eyes on the glass, merely close to it. So the question remainds, what is the rear blind spot of an F6F-5 without the extra windows, start comparing that first.
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I didnt fly the F6F much before but it looks an awful lot like the pilots view cant be adjusted as much as other airplanes. Im hoping it was an oversite rather then a change forthcoming for all planes.
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Just rid of the stupid radar, add radar vectoring every minute, give non-liberal views.
Lower shooting distance and liberal angle shooting and we are closer to a sim.
Effective shooting distances against enemy fighters RL where normally 200 yards or less, and 400 or less for 4engine bombers.
Personally my kill range is normally 400-600 as it stands today.
RL - 70% of all shot down planes did not see the enemy
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Any TrackIR users got an input into this - if not, I'll take a look when I get home.
<S>
Wurzel
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Just rid of the stupid radar, add radar vectoring every minute, give non-liberal views.
Lower shooting distance and liberal angle shooting and we are closer to a sim.
Effective shooting distances against enemy fighters RL where normally 200 yards or less, and 400 or less for 4engine bombers.
Personally my kill range is normally 400-600 as it stands today.
RL - 70% of all shot down planes did not see the enemy
i have to ask again? why do any of you compare these aircraft to r/l? this is a GAME. what is true in here is ALWAYS going to be different than r/l. it needs to be fun.
how many of you would keep playing if you had to check mags, cycle your props, constantly cycle your fuel tanks(and in certain cases burn off certain tanks first), switch auto lean on and off, switch your weapons switches on and off, etc?
r/l combatg pilots had a helluva workload. i imagine it was seriously unfun for them.
in the case of the hellkitty, i flew it once the other day, like i said earlier. i can't handle the rer view for now, so i'm back to being a spit/hurri/zeke dweeb. i don't like it because to me it kind of limits my choice for now, but i'm working around it so i can have fun.
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I didnt fly the F6F much before but it looks an awful lot like the pilots view cant be adjusted as much as other airplanes. Im hoping it was an oversite rather then a change forthcoming for all planes.
I agree with you on the limited head position. When the sun is in your eyes most planes allow you to "page down" so you can at least read the map. "Page down" in the new F6 is limited in this respect. "Page up" on the other hand works because it lowers the cockpit frame blocking the sun.
The old F6 "page down" would allow you to see the oil pressure gauge. Not so any more.
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how many of you would keep playing if you had to check mags, cycle your props, constantly cycle your fuel tanks(and in certain cases burn off certain tanks first), switch auto lean on and off, switch your weapons switches on and off, etc?
Raises hand.
Though the cockpit would need to be interactive.
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I have sat in 2 F6 cockpits , one at Kingman Airport last October at The Kingman Auto Air Show and I also have sat in one at Chino Airport in California . IMO the rear views in the new F6 in AcesHigh are way-wrong !
I agree with Widewing's drawings ...
Bob/CHECKERS
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Any TrackIR users got an input into this - if not, I'll take a look when I get home.
<S>
Wurzel
For me the TrackIR six view is worse than the normal six view in it.
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have to ask again? why do any of you compare these aircraft to r/l? this is a GAME. what is true in here is ALWAYS going to be different than r/l. it needs to be fun.
A very selective line of reasoning, if I must point out.
If this is a mere game with no ties to reality whatsoever, then why bother with realistic FM in the first place? A less accurate, but overall better looking eye-candy of a game could have drawn in more people including all kinds of light/casual gamers who don't know much of flightsims at all. Why do people ask for fixes when they find something's wrong with the FM? When something's a little off in graphics to the real thing? Why should some people have such a hard time getting used to realistic flight dynamics, when they could have simply made it a game with "PowerUps" and easy handling and external views?
how many of you would keep playing if you had to check mags, cycle your props, constantly cycle your fuel tanks(and in certain cases burn off certain tanks first), switch auto lean on and off, switch your weapons switches on and off, etc?
The guy's asking for a more strict restriction in views, and some changes to the radar dynamics, and a few improvements in some components which may effect the average gunnery distances.
Your torch totin', pitchfork & noose reaction which seems to want to sell off every aspect of 'realism' you personally hate, as the same thing as being a 'realism junkie', is totally uncalled for.
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For me the TrackIR six view is worse than the normal six view in it.
Same here.
:salute
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I didn't mean to start such a fuss.
I don't think that the US Navy would have put the F6F in service if it could not hold up to a hard impact on a carrier deck. It is the tail wheel shocks that are the problem.
<S>
Spiker
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SPIKER,
It looks like HTC agrees with you and the tail will be fixed in the next patch.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,247680.msg3038322.html#msg3038322 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,247680.msg3038322.html#msg3038322)
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Hey All,
Facts lead to truth and it seems the best facts we have been presented here so far is that the blind spot was 20 degrees (not 45 as the upgrade would have us believe).
We all have opinions but can anyone offer any real stats to the otherwise?
There is an F6 at Bradley Field in CT. Perhaps we can obtain more facts from them to confirm. Perhaps take pictures while sitting in the cockpit etc.
WT
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Hey All,
Facts lead to truth and it seems the best facts we have been presented here so far is that the blind spot was 20 degrees (not 45 as the upgrade would have us believe).
We all have opinions but can anyone offer any real stats to the otherwise?
There is an F6 at Bradley Field in CT. Perhaps we can obtain more facts from them to confirm. Perhaps take pictures while sitting in the cockpit etc.
WT
SIT in your car, and forget about the mirrors, look back out your drivers side window. if you have to, get right up against the glass. this i think should get somewhat close to what the blind spot might be?
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In my opinion a great airplane was reduced to a marginal one, or at least a lesser one. So why would it be called an "upgrade" anyways? I cant even look back and see if the CV is turning anymore. Tellya the truth I was very happy with the old one.
Facts have been presented and I hope AH changes the views to historically correct ones. Widewing does not post less he knows what hes talking about. The rest of the update? Wonderful! Im crazy about the new IL-2 and the T34/85 is a great, great tank. As it was in real life.
Fix the new Hellcats views. Please.
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How do you know that it's historically correct? What's your source?
The fact is that you don't know. Neither does Fruda or MjTalon. However, that doesn't appear to prevent them from appointing themselves experts.
I have had the opportunity to sit in and ride the brakes on an F6F-5 we were towing and I could see to the rear much better than I can in this new graphic modeling. Head movement is far too restrictive in the new reworked model. There's only about 6" of lateral head movement to each side, about 1/2 that of the F4Us. You cannot get anywhere near the glass on either side, whereas you can with the F4U. Indeed, the rearward view from the F6F wasn't great, but it was "adequate" according to those who flew it in combat. In our case, rear vision is virtually nil, with about a 45 degree blind area, as opposed to the real Hellcat's actual 20 degree blind area (10 degrees to either side).
Rear vision suffers because you cannot lean far enough to the sides to see around the armor plate. This is a problem that needs to be fixed.
My regards,
Widewing
I agree with this. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be able to turn your head all the way back and see directly behind you.
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I agree with this. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be able to turn your head all the way back and see directly behind you.
I agree, but we don't have rear view mirrors. I'm not sure which aircraft did or didn't, but i always thought that the ability to swivel your head around was to make up for this.
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I agree with this. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be able to turn your head all the way back and see directly behind you.
Nope, you shouldn't but what would happen if they took that away from you to be more realistic... as so many in this post have used as a reason to justify the art work. Either keep it real, which it isn't or let us continue to use the views we have without complaining and enjoy the game.
Not all planes had rear view mirrors which might justify some of our rear views in some planes. For you realistic junkies, you might want to ask that those views be taken away from the one that didn't and see how far you get.
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Rear view mirrors were worthless. Because of the vibrations and fov you wouldn't see a bandit on your 6 until it was far too late.
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(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/robhale777/deadhorse.gif)
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Then why were they so common?
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Were they? There's a lot of things that work far better in theory than in practice. Don't make me quote Yogi Berra.
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Rear view mirrors were worthless. Because of the vibrations and fov you wouldn't see a bandit on your 6 until it was far too late.
Your right, lets make our rear views jitter all over the place next then :D Oh and i want a vibrating chair option added to my wide screen support which I really like to make the game even more worth playing. Don't forget to add into the next patch an option that allows you only one life to chose since that is how it really was if you got killed. Bail out and rescue times can be adjusted to lets say 2- 3 weeks till your fitted into another plane. Well since it's just a game, how bout an hour.
:rofl :devil
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I wasn't making one of those "realism" arguments.
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I know, .. I was just adding to the conversation with dry meaningless humor
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Your right, lets make our rear views jitter all over the place next then :D Oh and i want a vibrating chair option added to my wide screen support which I really like to make the game even more worth playing. Don't forget to add into the next patch an option that allows you only one life to chose since that is how it really was if you got killed. Bail out and rescue times can be adjusted to lets say 2- 3 weeks till your fitted into another plane. Well since it's just a game, how bout an hour.
:rofl :devil
And a fat woman to sit in your lap to simulate the G-forces. :confused:
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20 degrees from what point? Looks like those lines merge at the gunsight or forward canopy. The head (with the eyes that see) is against the headrest at the back of the cockpit. I think the current view is about right.
Take the diagram WW posted with 20 degrees. Now, keeping the lines touching the fuselage behind the cockpit, move the point where both lines connect back to be about where a human head is situated. That spreads the angle of the blindspot out MUCH wider (closer to what we have).
FOV position dictates the angle of the blind spot. I think the problem isn't the optics themselves. I think it's just a matter of not allowing the head to move enough to narrow that blindspot down a bit
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20 degrees from what point? Looks like those lines merge at the gunsight or forward canopy. The head (with the eyes that see) is against the headrest at the back of the cockpit. I think the current view is about right.
Take the diagram WW posted with 20 degrees. Now, keeping the lines touching the fuselage behind the cockpit, move the point where both lines connect back to be about where a human head is situated. That spreads the angle of the blindspot out MUCH wider (closer to what we have).
FOV position dictates the angle of the blind spot. I think the problem isn't the optics themselves. I think it's just a matter of not allowing the head to move enough to narrow that blindspot down a bit
weren't the seats adjustable in the cats? for shorter pilots? what about the possibility of the pilot leaning foward somewhat as he turns his head to look over his shoulder?
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weren't the seats adjustable in the cats? for shorter pilots? what about the possibility of the pilot leaning foward somewhat as he turns his head to look over his shoulder?
That would be too logical of an assumption CAP ... especially if one wants to see the F6F views totally porked.
What the heck ... let's make all fighter planes require that you strap yourself in as tight as possible to the seat so that there is no real combination of body and head movement, so that the playing field is equal for all.
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FOV position dictates the angle of the blind spot. I think the problem isn't the optics themselves. I think it's just a matter of not allowing the head to move enough to narrow that blindspot down a bit
My argument has been that head movement in the F6F is far too restrictive. You cannot get your head anywhere near the inside of the canopy glass. If you compare head movement of the F4U vs the F6F, the Hellcat's is barely 50% of that in the F4U. Without mirrors, unfetter movement within the confines of the cockpit is essential. WWII pilots would leave their belts loose because the ability to be able to move around the cockpit to see an enemy outweighed any other consideration.
My regards,
Widewing
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2 screen shots of min in 1024 x 768 + 1 from a wide screen. Excuse my assumption but perhaps the powers that be actually did the remodeling using a wide screen. Having said that I'm fully aware of my limitation of computering so I could be way off. Would that actually make a difference?
"If" my assumption points at what is a mere oversite, then perhaps this could be remodelled in the next patch?
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/ahss10copy.jpg)
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/ahss8copy.jpg)
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/ahss92.jpg)
You'll need to click the link below to see more Wide Screen version for the back right rear
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,247533.msg3041452.html#msg3041452
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You can see pretty much the same amount of the horizontal tail in both the narrow and wide angle shots, so I'd say the blindspot is about the same.
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"If" my assumption points at what is a mere oversite, then perhaps this could be remodelled in the next patch?
Really hard to say if they are going to be stubborn about this or not. I do know they will be fixing the tail problem which I myself have not noticed a problem with but is definitely there according to many. The view prob should be an easy fix for them but I've seen no word of any change they may make to it. Ya know how artists are :lol
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You can see pretty much the same amount of the horizontal tail in both the narrow and wide angle shots, so I'd say the blindspot is about the same.
ah....yes....good point. :o
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It's been broadened for the next patch.
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I read an interview with a luftwaffe pilot who said that they would loosen the shoulder straps so they could literally 'put an eye to the glass' to see behind them in the Me109. I would think that american pilots in planes with bad rear views would do something similar.
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Bubble canopy's were introduced for a reason. :aok
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I read an interview with a luftwaffe pilot who said that they would loosen the shoulder straps so they could literally 'put an eye to the glass' to see behind them in the Me109. I would think that american pilots in planes with bad rear views would do something similar.
The shifts in head positions in-game, already simulates it.
If we had only strictly restricted movement as if with tightened seat belts, the FoV would be more akin to what we see in IL2 by 1C:Maddox.
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I think the point some of these gentlemen have been trying to make is that "head" movement is too restrictive in the F6F, while other gentlemen have been arguing that "head" movement is too lax in general. My point was that in real life the pilots did move about in the cockpit.
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I like it but I just cant see behind me.
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I think the point some of these gentlemen have been trying to make is that "head" movement is too restrictive in the F6F, while other gentlemen have been arguing that "head" movement is too lax in general. My point was that in real life the pilots did move about in the cockpit
Under what Gs?
There's a world of difference looking behind when you are sitting in a cockpit at normal 1G level flight, and then trying the same thing while making 4G breaking turns. If anything else, the restrictions could simply be considered a compromise between the two.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for having a totally sophisticated system that might simulate the varying degrees of body/head movement under different G loads. Unfortunately, since AH doesn't have such a thing in place, HT simply drew a line somewhere and made a new standard as opposed to the ol' "mega-wide panoramic Linda Blair view" we used to have. The forward/backwards/sideways movement inside the more recently modelled planes are a lot more restrictive than the old ones, and F6 is certainly not the only plane under this influence.
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Under what Gs?
There's a world of difference looking behind when you are sitting in a cockpit at normal 1G level flight, and then trying the same thing while making 4G breaking turns. If anything else, the restrictions could simply be considered a compromise between the two.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for having a totally sophisticated system that might simulate the varying degrees of body/head movement under different G loads. Unfortunately, since AH doesn't have such a thing in place, HT simply drew a line somewhere and made a new standard as opposed to the ol' "mega-wide panoramic Linda Blair view" we used to have. The forward/backwards/sideways movement inside the more recently modelled planes are a lot more restrictive than the old ones, and F6 is certainly not the only plane under this influence.
Really? I assume the Me109's are "recently modelled"? They have excellent rear views, can even see the vertical stabilizer. Didn't someone already post that the F6F's views were being fixed in the next patch?
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Under what Gs?
There's a world of difference looking behind when you are sitting in a cockpit at normal 1G level flight, and then trying the same thing while making 4G breaking turns. If anything else, the restrictions could simply be considered a compromise between the two.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for having a totally sophisticated system that might simulate the varying degrees of body/head movement under different G loads. Unfortunately, since AH doesn't have such a thing in place, HT simply drew a line somewhere and made a new standard as opposed to the ol' "mega-wide panoramic Linda Blair view" we used to have. The forward/backwards/sideways movement inside the more recently modelled planes are a lot more restrictive than the old ones, and F6 is certainly not the only plane under this influence.
There is no "new standard"... You're imagining it. The problem was simply insufficient head movement, in all directions.
Rear view on the F6F is broadened on the next patch.
My regards,
Widewing
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There is no "new standard"... You're imagining it. The problem was simply insufficient head movement, in all directions.
Rear view on the F6F is broadened on the next patch.
So you deny that there's a general trend of rear views and head positions being much more restricted than it was in AH1?
The odds are, however the rear view may be broadened it's not going to be as broad and wide and clr as the old AH1 stock F6F.
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I got into a couple of real flaps-out stallhorn-blaring rolling scissor knifefights with Banshee5's Seafire just now, great fun. :D It seems the Hellcat no longer does that low speed roll wobble when you stall it with flaps out, it just drops a wing a little when you hit the limit. I'll have to test it properly offline, but has anyone else noticed an improvement in low speed handling?
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Oh Dear God, thats all we need - Greebo not having problems with low speed handling :D
Enjoy running across Greebo - even tho I lose every single time - and dont last long either ;)
<S>
Wurzel
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Don't worry Wurzel. ;) I've since managed to get the F6F into one of those weird stalls. Either I wasn't trying hard enough before or they raised the threshold a bit.
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I got into a couple of real flaps-out stallhorn-blaring rolling scissor knifefights with Banshee5's Seafire just now, great fun. :D It seems the Hellcat no longer does that low speed roll wobble when you stall it with flaps out, it just drops a wing a little when you hit the limit. I'll have to test it properly offline, but has anyone else noticed an improvement in low speed handling?
i've managed to turn it against a couple 109's......and a spit8. i haven't been able to in the past. :aok