Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GrimWulf on September 21, 2008, 02:21:55 PM
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Ok, for everyone that knows me I am a pretty easy going guy, I admit that I jump on the newbies that can't read the help files on the website and expect everyone to train them but other than that I consider myself a "nice" guy. All that being said, I am sick and tired of hearing or reading people whine when they get jumped by multiple-enemy-aircraft. What most of these people don't seem to comprehend is that in a real-life scenario, the only time you would see a lone aircraft is a "recon" flight or someone who has lost his element and is heading for home. I am going to post an excerpt from a training manual written by Major Thomas Buchanan McGuire Jr. He was the second highest scoring American ace during World War II, and McGuire was awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously for his actions, whose memory was preserved by the naming of McGuire Air Force Base in Burlington County, New Jersey. This will hopefully show these whiners why if they want 1v1 plane engagements, go to the DA and keep the whining out of MA about getting jumped by 2,3,4,5,6,-25 planes.
"If the combat turns out to be fighter versus fighter, then it may be necessary to break up into two-ship elements, but no further. There is no excuse at all for a wing man to leave his element leader and the two-ship element must be regarded as the absolute minimum under any circumstances. The minimum, that is, if the combat is to be successful from our point of view. Ninety-five percent of the men who have been lost in combat have been lost while they have been alone, separated from the rest of their flight. The phrase, "He was last seen at a little distance from the rest of the formation", comes up time and time again in reports of actions in which we have suffered casualties.
An excellent demonstration of some of the points made in this foregoing paragraphs took place in Rabaul a few months ago, when a mission there meant certain interception. Before the target was reached the lead flight had had one snafu, the third flight leader had taken over position of squadron leader, and there were two snafus from the third flight, leaving nine of the original twelve planes. Just after the B-25’s had finished a low-level bombing run and were heading for home, a force of sixty or seventy enemy fighters attacked both the bombers and the escort. Shortly after the first attack the number two man in the first flight became separated from the rest and the other flights split up into elements. Leaving the squadron leader without a wingman. One element, the leader of the second flight and his wingman saw his danger and stayed with the squadron leader, who had been singled out by the enemy and was subjected to repeated attacks. On the first attack, made from the rear, the leader of the second flight shot down one Zeke while his wingman fired a long burst which caused the second Zeke to break away. The next attack was made head-on. Again the flight leader shot down one and the second Zeke broke away. The third attack was made from 11 o’clock low. The leader of the second flight had run out ammunition by this time and as the Zeke came on the leader ducked under and to the left, allowing his wingman to fire a burst which sent the enemy plane down in flames. Two more Zekes attacked the squadron leader from behind and the flight leader made a dry run on them, causing them to pull-off in opposite directions. Then one of about five enemy aircraft in the vicinity made a ninety-degree deflection attack from the right. The flight leader peeled up at the Zeke and it half rolled away, frightened off by the empty guns.
Had either of the two men in the second flight broken away to fight on his own, the squadron leader could not have survived this engagement. Sustained close support saved him. Don’t sacrifice yourself and the man you are supposed to protect by making a grandstand, lone-wolf play. You might be lucky, once or twice, but don’t forget that you are gambling with another man’s life as well as your own and his luck may not last him through the first minute you have left him. Because it is a temptation for the last man to strike out on his own, having no one following him, it is the general practice in this area for the strongest wingman (and by strong is experience enough to hold his own place) to fly number four position in each flight, and for the first and fourth flights to be the strongest in the squadron. Tail-end Charlie is a mighty important man, and any time you play the part, play it square with the men who are relying on you it play it just that way. It is an obligation, not a courtesy, for you to do so." -From Combat Tactics in the SouthWest Pacific Area
By Major Thomas B. McGuire, Jr. :salute
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You know what I like to whine about.... why do people insist on comparing this GAME to real life?
Of course if more people looked at it as a game more people might avoid ganging a good fight, maybe avoid a "cheap shot" HO, avoid vulching, avoid spawn camping, in general, learn to play the game, not to "game" the game. Score isn't the most important thing in this game. It is a fighter simulation game, a game where you are suppose to "fight" players from all over the world. Pit your skills against live opponents in simulated air to air combat. I've never seen any place where it says to have the best score.
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Most, but not all, of my whines are from the perspective of the side doing the ganging. It's a terrible waste of resources. No more than 2 friendlies should be required to down one enemy. If you follow that rule you and the friendlies around you can kill far more efficiently than a country that's full of gangtards.
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This IS a game based on the REAL-LIFE performance and tactics used by these aircraft during WW2. And if you will notice these tactics, such as ganging up on 1 opponent and destroying aircraft on the ground actually work as they do in REAL-LIFE. If you would like to play a game that is not based on RL except for the names of the planes, I would suggest the Ace Combat series. In that game you can complete every mission and destroy all the enemies "lone-ranger" style. Otherwise AHII is 99 times out of 100 a numbers game. If YOU put YOURSELF in a situation where you are getting ganged by 10 enemies that is your fault. That is kind of the whole idea behind a squadron. That way you always have someone to watch your six. And again always remember that it is YOUR fault if you get hoed. They are predictable and easily avoidable. All that being said I do agree with Anaxogoras, in so much as there is no reason to have 5 people on 1 enemy. If 1 or 2 friendlies are engaged with that 1 enemy, then let them handle him and find another target or, keep watch on them so they don't get jumped. I also agree with The Fugitive that score is not everything. Pretty much if you don't worry about score and fly at your best then the score will handle itself. But again, if you are in an arena with 3 sides with 100 players each how can you expect to get a 1v1 every time you see the enemy? That's like going into a football game and the quarterback saying only 1 player from the defense can try to tackle him. It's just don't make sense. I wasn't trying to be an arse when i said take it to the Dueling Arena. That is what the "DUELING ARENA" is for: DUELING 1v1.
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There is no fair and there is no unfair in the MA. I admit that I am somewhat contemptuous of the number of players who seem to never want to do anything but come on your unguarded six while you are otherwise occupied, who, on any given day, will try to HO and go or just blow past a fair merge and run to help rather than take you up on a clean 1v1 while flying an equal or superior aircraft. On the other side of the coin, you have all the jokers who insist it is just sooooo terrible to respond rationally to this horde crap by flying something fast enough to choose your engagements.
But here is the really dirty little secret Grimwulf: You will almost never shoot anybody down in a "right" way, nor will I or most anybody else. No matter how you shoot them down, there is always this or that. You had a better plane, you had an E-advantage, you had numbers, the opponent was AFK or the sun was in their eyes. The only thing you can do, if you are interested in making other players happy, is die easily and die often. But, I believe the Sage once implied this game is not about making the other guy happy, it is if anything all about making him the opposite of happy. :devil
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This IS a game based on the REAL-LIFE performance and tactics used by these aircraft during WW2. And if you will notice these tactics, such as ganging up on 1 opponent and destroying aircraft on the ground actually work as they do in REAL-LIFE. If you would like to play a game that is not based on RL except for the names of the planes, I would suggest the Ace Combat series. In that game you can complete every mission and destroy all the enemies "lone-ranger" style. Otherwise AHII is 99 times out of 100 a numbers game. If YOU put YOURSELF in a situation where you are getting ganged by 10 enemies that is your fault. That is kind of the whole idea behind a squadron. That way you always have someone to watch your six. And again always remember that it is YOUR fault if you get hoed. They are predictable and easily avoidable. All that being said I do agree with Anaxogoras, in so much as there is no reason to have 5 people on 1 enemy. If 1 or 2 friendlies are engaged with that 1 enemy, then let them handle him and find another target or, keep watch on them so they don't get jumped. I also agree with The Fugitive that score is not everything. Pretty much if you don't worry about score and fly at your best then the score will handle itself. But again, if you are in an arena with 3 sides with 100 players each how can you expect to get a 1v1 every time you see the enemy? That's like going into a football game and the quarterback saying only 1 player from the defense can try to tackle him. It's just don't make sense. I wasn't trying to be an arse when i said take it to the Dueling Arena. That is what the "DUELING ARENA" is for: DUELING 1v1.
1.This is a game not real life, so don't compare them.
2.Your own six, your own SA, not anyone else except yourself that needs to watch it.
3.Your the one whining, about other people whining.
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I totally understand the fun of 1 vs. 1s, even as uncommon as they were in real life they are part of the game as a valuable source of "what if" contrived match-ups for amusement purposes. In AH it is a courtesy to ask first, if you can't tell for certain your buddy needs help, before disturbing a 1 vs. 1 in the MA. The only problem I have is people who expect and get earnestly pissed off when they cannot get a 1 vs. 1 in the MA. The simple fact is, if there's hundreds of people in the arena a 1 vs. 1 is going to be a rare treat not a realistic expectation.
I have to question the intelligence of anyone who honestly believes they can log into a chaotic MA with hundreds of people and gets really upset when 1 vs. 1s do not fall into their laps. Truly, in real life, 1 vs. 1s passed the WWI era were mostly rare, unfortunate accidents which were generally the result of the untimely demise of the wingman/leader or an utter failure of navigation. Therefore, the vast majority of aircraft and tactics are predicated upon the presumption of more than 2 participants in an engagement operating in mutual support. The MA provides a reasonable, if much more loosely structured, facsimile of that environment.
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It requires no skill to fly with a horde. Do not expect respect from the better sticks if that is what you depend on. And when I say better sticks, I'm not talking about a good score.
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I personally get a little disappointed when a good 1vs1 gets interrupted but I would not say that I get mad and definitely not at the person who jumped in. If I do get even the slightest bit upset it is with myself for not maintaining good SA or asking the friendly to stay out (depending on circumstances).
I also don't go with the "If you want a 1vs1 then go to DA either". Yes the DA is for arranged fights (not just 1vs1's) and Yes most use it for 1vs1's. Where our opinions differ is the fact that I do not like prearranged fights. I prefer to test my abilities (luck is probably more suitable) against others who have advantage such as better plane, more alt, more speed. I like for fights to have many different elements involvedand many of these elements lose their impact in the arranged fights that take place in DA.
I do agree though that there is no reason to get mad at anyone because you can't find a 1vs1. There are ways of increasing your odds of a 1vs1 but none of these are going to be guarantees especially in the late war arenas during peak time. I do have a tendancy to laugh at those who feel the need to pile on a con with 5-6 or more friendlies already on him. This is the time I usually start to climb waiting for the next wave.
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Oh noes, Cartoon planes ganging each other.
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MA is a multi-target, multi-threat environment, one should know that as they log in, but then again im on the road with 3 1/2 mojitos in my system right now! :)
Which begs the question, is posting while drunk in violation of bbs rules, if so, please forgive me.
(whats left of ) ----> zuii
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Which begs the question, is posting while drunk in violations of bbs rules, if so, please forgive me.
If so then everyone would be PNGed.
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Don't like getting jumped by multiple enemies?
Bring multiple friends!
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This IS a game based on the REAL-LIFE performance and tactics used by these aircraft during WW2. And if you will notice these tactics, such as ganging up on 1 opponent and destroying aircraft on the ground actually work as they do in REAL-LIFE. If you would like to play a game that is not based on RL except for the names of the planes, I would suggest the Ace Combat series. In that game you can complete every mission and destroy all the enemies "lone-ranger" style. Otherwise AHII is 99 times out of 100 a numbers game. If YOU put YOURSELF in a situation where you are getting ganged by 10 enemies that is your fault. That is kind of the whole idea behind a squadron. That way you always have someone to watch your six. And again always remember that it is YOUR fault if you get hoed. They are predictable and easily avoidable. All that being said I do agree with Anaxogoras, in so much as there is no reason to have 5 people on 1 enemy. If 1 or 2 friendlies are engaged with that 1 enemy, then let them handle him and find another target or, keep watch on them so they don't get jumped. I also agree with The Fugitive that score is not everything. Pretty much if you don't worry about score and fly at your best then the score will handle itself. But again, if you are in an arena with 3 sides with 100 players each how can you expect to get a 1v1 every time you see the enemy? That's like going into a football game and the quarterback saying only 1 player from the defense can try to tackle him. It's just don't make sense. I wasn't trying to be an arse when i said take it to the Dueling Arena. That is what the "DUELING ARENA" is for: DUELING 1v1.
First off "HO" to me is a derogatory term meaning some clown merges head-on AND is firering from 1k out until he passes you. Under this definition, only skill less dweebs "HO". I would rather fight 50 fights in a row and loose them all as long as I had a chance to win. 7 to 1 I don't have a chance, 2 on 1 lets go ! The point is to fight. Playing against some AI isn't any fun, fighting against a real live player is. They are unpredictable to a point, and thats the challange. The DA is just knowing more tricks, or practicing the timings of certain moves that will give you an advantage. A football game is a team sport and can not compare with this game. This game is more like chess. Its all about the player, it comes down to who thinks there way through with the least amount of mistakes. 1 on 1
There is no fair and there is no unfair in the MA. I admit that I am somewhat contemptuous of the number of players who seem to never want to do anything but come on your unguarded six while you are otherwise occupied, who, on any given day, will try to HO and go or just blow past a fair merge and run to help rather than take you up on a clean 1v1 while flying an equal or superior aircraft. On the other side of the coin, you have all the jokers who insist it is just sooooo terrible to respond rationally to this horde crap by flying something fast enough to choose your engagements.
But here is the really dirty little secret Grimwulf: You will almost never shoot anybody down in a "right" way, nor will I or most anybody else. No matter how you shoot them down, there is always this or that. You had a better plane, you had an E-advantage, you had numbers, the opponent was AFK or the sun was in their eyes. The only thing you can do, if you are interested in making other players happy, is die easily and die often. But, I believe the Sage once implied this game is not about making the other guy happy, it is if anything all about making him the opposite of happy. :devil
I think there is a right way, or a fair way. I'm honest enough with myself that if you beat me without HOing every pass, run to your friends, or cherry pick me while I'm busy with a couple of others, that you won. You out flew me and won. To me thats all this game is. I don't care how many bases "my country" has, I don't care about bombing (I can knock the cross off the top of the church from 15k), I don't care to be killed as I spawn in a GV. These things are easy to master, and therefor are not a challenge.
If people had a bit more....dare I say "honor" and looked at the fight as THE reason for the game I think we would have much better fights, and a better community. Its the poor game play that got the arenas split in the first place. I think we just need a better class of people flying and GVing.
As a GVer tell me what it would be like if you could spawn and be guarantied not to get vulched? Say they had a 2 mile radius around the spawn points. The enemy wouldn't "know" where you would come out of that circle. Think of the tactics needed to kill GVs, or use the assault capabilities for taking bases. Wouldn't that challange be more fun?
Same as when fighting air to air. Wheres the challange of being one of 7 guys chasing down a lone bad guy? And from the other side, being the lone guy trying to avoid 7 is a pretty hopless situation, and not a lot of fun either. Its up to the community to fix these issues, not HTC (well I think they could fix the spawn camping issue, but they shouldn't have to).
...edited for spelling
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Ok, for everyone that knows me I am a pretty easy going guy, I admit that I jump on the newbies that can't read the help files on the website and expect everyone to train them but other than that I consider myself a "nice" guy. All that being said, I am sick and tired of hearing or reading people whine when they get jumped by multiple-enemy-aircraft. What most of these people don't seem to comprehend is that in a real-life scenario, the only time you would see a lone aircraft is a "recon" flight or someone who has lost his element and is heading for home. I am going to post an excerpt from a training manual written by Major Thomas Buchanan McGuire Jr. He was the second highest scoring American ace during World War II, and McGuire was awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously for his actions, whose memory was preserved by the naming of McGuire Air Force Base in Burlington County, New Jersey. This will hopefully show these whiners why if they want 1v1 plane engagements, go to the DA and keep the whining out of MA about getting jumped by 2,3,4,5,6,-25 planes.
"If the combat turns out to be fighter versus fighter, then it may be necessary to break up into two-ship elements, but no further. There is no excuse at all for a wing man to leave his element leader and the two-ship element must be regarded as the absolute minimum under any circumstances. The minimum, that is, if the combat is to be successful from our point of view. Ninety-five percent of the men who have been lost in combat have been lost while they have been alone, separated from the rest of their flight. The phrase, "He was last seen at a little distance from the rest of the formation", comes up time and time again in reports of actions in which we have suffered casualties.
An excellent demonstration of some of the points made in this foregoing paragraphs took place in Rabaul a few months ago, when a mission there meant certain interception. Before the target was reached the lead flight had had one snafu, the third flight leader had taken over position of squadron leader, and there were two snafus from the third flight, leaving nine of the original twelve planes. Just after the B-25’s had finished a low-level bombing run and were heading for home, a force of sixty or seventy enemy fighters attacked both the bombers and the escort. Shortly after the first attack the number two man in the first flight became separated from the rest and the other flights split up into elements. Leaving the squadron leader without a wingman. One element, the leader of the second flight and his wingman saw his danger and stayed with the squadron leader, who had been singled out by the enemy and was subjected to repeated attacks. On the first attack, made from the rear, the leader of the second flight shot down one Zeke while his wingman fired a long burst which caused the second Zeke to break away. The next attack was made head-on. Again the flight leader shot down one and the second Zeke broke away. The third attack was made from 11 o’clock low. The leader of the second flight had run out ammunition by this time and as the Zeke came on the leader ducked under and to the left, allowing his wingman to fire a burst which sent the enemy plane down in flames. Two more Zekes attacked the squadron leader from behind and the flight leader made a dry run on them, causing them to pull-off in opposite directions. Then one of about five enemy aircraft in the vicinity made a ninety-degree deflection attack from the right. The flight leader peeled up at the Zeke and it half rolled away, frightened off by the empty guns.
Had either of the two men in the second flight broken away to fight on his own, the squadron leader could not have survived this engagement. Sustained close support saved him. Don’t sacrifice yourself and the man you are supposed to protect by making a grandstand, lone-wolf play. You might be lucky, once or twice, but don’t forget that you are gambling with another man’s life as well as your own and his luck may not last him through the first minute you have left him. Because it is a temptation for the last man to strike out on his own, having no one following him, it is the general practice in this area for the strongest wingman (and by strong is experience enough to hold his own place) to fly number four position in each flight, and for the first and fourth flights to be the strongest in the squadron. Tail-end Charlie is a mighty important man, and any time you play the part, play it square with the men who are relying on you it play it just that way. It is an obligation, not a courtesy, for you to do so." -From Combat Tactics in the SouthWest Pacific Area
By Major Thomas B. McGuire, Jr. :salute
It's a game, there is no reason for the 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th planes in on one con, to be there, 4 is enough. :aok
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....edited wrong thing.
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It requires no skill to fly with a horde. Do not expect respect from the better sticks if that is what you depend on. And when I say better sticks, I'm not talking about a good score.
Xargos, don't take this wrong, buy why should one care wheather the "better sticks, respect them or not? My intent is not to start an argument, I just found your statement interesting.
Just throwing a thought out there.
Fred
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This IS a game based on the REAL-LIFE performance and tactics used by these aircraft during WW2. And if you will notice these tactics, such as ganging up on 1 opponent and destroying aircraft on the ground actually work as they do in REAL-LIFE. If you would like to play a game that is not based on RL except for the names of the planes, I would suggest the Ace Combat series. In that game you can complete every mission and destroy all the enemies "lone-ranger" style. Otherwise AHII is 99 times out of 100 a numbers game. If YOU put YOURSELF in a situation where you are getting ganged by 10 enemies that is your fault. That is kind of the whole idea behind a squadron. That way you always have someone to watch your six. And again always remember that it is YOUR fault if you get hoed. They are predictable and easily avoidable. All that being said I do agree with Anaxogoras, in so much as there is no reason to have 5 people on 1 enemy. If 1 or 2 friendlies are engaged with that 1 enemy, then let them handle him and find another target or, keep watch on them so they don't get jumped. I also agree with The Fugitive that score is not everything. Pretty much if you don't worry about score and fly at your best then the score will handle itself. But again, if you are in an arena with 3 sides with 100 players each how can you expect to get a 1v1 every time you see the enemy? That's like going into a football game and the quarterback saying only 1 player from the defense can try to tackle him. It's just don't make sense. I wasn't trying to be an arse when i said take it to the Dueling Arena. That is what the "DUELING ARENA" is for: DUELING 1v1.
As soon as this becomes a 1 life and you never get to fly again game, you can start using real life as a comparison. Since we get to choose the engagement, our aircraft, our altitude, and control all the cards, this isn't real life.
Imagine the screams in here, if when you entered the arena, HTC chose your job, your plane, your environment, your squadron mates etc.
"Thank you for signing up with Aces High. You have been assigned to fly Val's and are stationed on an island that at this point is far away from any actual combat. You have little fuel, no spare parts, and when the enemy shows up, he has masssive numbers, altitude, performance and pilot skill. Thank you for your 14.95 and enjoy your time in the game. Once you die, you will never be allowed to play again."
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1.This is a game not real life, so don't compare them.
2.Your own six, your own SA, not anyone else except yourself that needs to watch it.
3.Your the one whining, about other people whining.
I completely agree with #2 and if you notice I am not in a squadron with tons of people but when my squad mate and I are on we TRY to keep a watch on each other.
#3: I am not trying to whine about this topic, if I came off that way I am sorry. I am simply stating why it is perfectly rational and smart to fly with more than just yourself.
Yes 1v1's are very fun, and when I get a chance to get into one I will "Attempt" to engage. While I am not the best stick around, I can somewhat hold my own, but once I have lost equal or superior ground, you are absolutely right that if I can run or make my opponent auger or fly him over a friendly base, I will do just that. Who's fault is it for flying 100ft over an enemy base and getting shot down? The Enemy chasing you or you for keeping a way out of the fight when it turns against you? When someone ducks out to their base when I'm on their six. I don't get mad at them for using the terrain or location to their advantage. I consider keeping your options open and a way out equal to the ability to control your aircraft.
I guess what I am really trying to say is that; Barring "disco", lag, warping, etc... It is my fault if I get shot down and in no way is it my opponent, or opponents. If ten people jump you because you lost SA or you went in "John Wayne" style into a situation where there is ten enemy cons at 5k over you, then that is your fault. So stop crying because you lost and congratulate your opponent.
"Respect one's enemies, and celebrate in his victories." -Asian Proverb
And OMG I only started this thread because I get tired of reading that so & so got jumped by 2-3 guys and that was unfair...blah,blah,blah...Didn't think I was smart enough to hit on such a hot-button issue...yay me...lol
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Xargos, don't take this wrong, buy why should one care wheather the "better sticks, respect them or not? My intent is not to start an argument, I just found your statement interesting.
Just throwing a thought out there.
Fred
I think the point is that one would hope that folks coming into the game would look to gain the notice, or respect of their peers and the vets in the game. Maybe that's not relevant anymore. I do recall being very aware of who the vets were, and who the 'good sticks' were when I started playing online in Airwarrior. Any sort of community is built on that awareness and respect.
There seems to be a clear defining line within the community these days on style of play, and it seems that many expect that gang mentality will get you that recognition.
In the end I suppose you are right, and it doesn't matter. I do believe that there are many of us who hope that folks coming into the game would not just jump to the path of least resistance. Posts like the one that started this thread, give people a justification to avoid the learning curve however and it will get a reaction from those of us who hope that people look for more then that.
The beauty of this online flight sim, and those that came before it, is the ability to engage other people in air combat. The challenge is in that air combat. As we don't really die, and we get new planes any time we fly, it seems silly to only engage in that combat under circumstances that pose no challenge.
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I think the ?this is war? attitude is one of the biggest problems with this game. It's a computer game, not war, and we play games to have fun. Everyone should take it upon themselves to have fun and play in such a way as to allow others to have fun too. One should not expect a 1v1 in the MA but it is just good manners to ask before you jump in. No one has the right to put their fun above all others. Your $15 does not buy you the right to grief others.
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What ever happened to treating others how you'd like to be treated?
This not only goes for your opponents, but your own friends.
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What ever happened to treating others how you'd like to be treated?
This not only goes for your opponents, but your own friends.
Bingo!
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As we don't really die, and we get new planes any time we fly, it seems silly to only engage in that combat under circumstances that pose no challenge.
Game Genie was a very popular toy ;)
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Boy I sure wish I knew what AH was all about 3 weeks and less than 20 posts into it.
I guess I'm a slow learner.
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Game Genie was a very popular toy ;)
ahh game genie those where the days :P :rofl
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Another Game vs Real Life thread :rolleyes:
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Again this post is NOT about so much comparing real-life to a game. The only reason I posted the excerpt from Major McGuire is to show that there is a historical precedence for the mob-mentality. I am sorry that I posted this now because the entire point of the post was missed. Either that or it was ignored to push an agenda of 1v1 is the only "honorable" kills. But I think BnZ said it best earlier in this topic when he said "You will almost never shoot anybody down in a "right" way, nor will I or most anybody else. No matter how you shoot them down, there is always this or that. You had a better plane, you had an E-advantage, you had numbers, the opponent was AFK or the sun was in their eyes. The only thing you can do, if you are interested in making other players happy, is die easily and die often." But one more thing, If this game is all about the actual air to air combat, then why are there bases and territories to captured? Seems to me that if the entire purpose was to shoot down the enemy, then perhaps the concept of capturing bases and strats should be removed from the game. While we are at it we should remove field ack, ord, bombers, missions, etc...because if it is all about air to air combat, what do we need the rest of it for? Seems like a useless distraction to me. Also Guppy, gaining the "respect" of people in the game is no longer about how much you help when your country calls for it. It isn't about coming up with strategies that will help your country win. Now all it is about is your score, and how many kills you land. And that my friend is sad. If a newbie comes in and doesn't have the 4-5 hours daily to devote to this game to get "good," no matter how hard that person tries, he doesn't gain the "respect" for trying, or attempting to learn. Yes I admit I am hard on the Newbies that come in asking how to fly or how to land or shoot or whatever inane question they come up with that could have easily been read on the website. But kids like Lt. Manny or some of those with zip-code names, who actually try to learn the more advanced things, aren't given any respect simply because their voice is high-pitched, no matter how hard they try. And with that attitude, alot of the "squeekers" get fed up with the constant disparagement and belittlement and then hit back by griefing the older sticks. Can you really blame them? If you want the community to come together, lead by example. Let the "older sticks" give a little respect out from the get-go instead of sitting in their ivory towers judging all the little peons like myself who aren't quite as well practiced. The "Vets" are the ones who keep this communities' core operating, but please remember that we were all newbs at one time.
“This is the final test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible service to him” -William Lyon Phelps
I think some of the "Vets", and not all and not even most, but some would do well to remember this.
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Ok, let's leave the R/L aspect out then.
This is a game. There are griefers. Get used to it.
End of story.
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Again this post is NOT about so much comparing real-life to a game. The only reason I posted the excerpt from Major McGuire is to show that there is a historical precedence for the mob-mentality. I am sorry that I posted this now because the entire point of the post was missed. Either that or it was ignored to push an agenda of 1v1 is the only "honorable" kills. But I think BnZ said it best earlier in this topic when he said "You will almost never shoot anybody down in a "right" way, nor will I or most anybody else. No matter how you shoot them down, there is always this or that. You had a better plane, you had an E-advantage, you had numbers, the opponent was AFK or the sun was in their eyes. The only thing you can do, if you are interested in making other players happy, is die easily and die often." But one more thing, If this game is all about the actual air to air combat, then why are there bases and territories to captured? Seems to me that if the entire purpose was to shoot down the enemy, then perhaps the concept of capturing bases and strats should be removed from the game. While we are at it we should remove field ack, ord, bombers, missions, etc...because if it is all about air to air combat, what do we need the rest of it for? Seems like a useless distraction to me.
Well said.
Also Guppy, gaining the "respect" of people in the game is no longer about how much you help when your country calls for it. It isn't about coming up with strategies that will help your country win. Now all it is about is your score, and how many kills you land. And that my friend is sad. If a newbie comes in and doesn't have the 4-5 hours daily to devote to this game to get "good," no matter how hard that person tries, he doesn't gain the "respect" for trying, or attempting to learn. Yes I admit I am hard on the Newbies that come in asking how to fly or how to land or shoot or whatever inane question they come up with that could have easily been read on the website.
Very well said.
But kids like Lt. Manny or some of those with zip-code names, who actually try to learn the more advanced things, aren't given any respect simply because their voice is high-pitched, no matter how hard they try. And with that attitude, alot of the "squeekers" get fed up with the constant disparagement and belittlement and then hit back by griefing the older sticks. Can you really blame them? If you want the community to come together, lead by example. Let the "older sticks" give a little respect out from the get-go instead of sitting in their ivory towers judging all the little peons like myself who aren't quite as well practiced. The "Vets" are the ones who keep this communities' core operating, but please remember that we were all newbs at one time.
“This is the final test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible service to him” -William Lyon Phelps
I think some of the "Vets", and not all and not even most, but some would do well to remember this.
Extremely well said.
I can't find anything I disagree with at all in there :aok :aok
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Amazing..... I actually agree with an Obama supporter. :D
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I can't find anything I disagree with at all in there :aok :aok
I find a few things to disagree with. Especially the parts about how the "Vets" aren't, apparently, helping out the new guys.
As far as the historical precedence for the "mob mentality" just google Watling Street. Then read up large formations in air to air combat. They are not the most effective unit, by a long shot. A total "waste of resources," to put it in terms my base-taking friends can understand.
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Again this post is NOT about so much comparing real-life to a game. The only reason I posted the excerpt from Major McGuire is to show that there is a historical precedence for the mob-mentality. I am sorry that I posted this now because the entire point of the post was missed. Either that or it was ignored to push an agenda of 1v1 is the only "honorable" kills. But I think BnZ said it best earlier in this topic when he said "You will almost never shoot anybody down in a "right" way, nor will I or most anybody else. No matter how you shoot them down, there is always this or that. You had a better plane, you had an E-advantage, you had numbers, the opponent was AFK or the sun was in their eyes. The only thing you can do, if you are interested in making other players happy, is die easily and die often." But one more thing, If this game is all about the actual air to air combat, then why are there bases and territories to captured? Seems to me that if the entire purpose was to shoot down the enemy, then perhaps the concept of capturing bases and strats should be removed from the game. While we are at it we should remove field ack, ord, bombers, missions, etc...because if it is all about air to air combat, what do we need the rest of it for? Seems like a useless distraction to me. Also Guppy, gaining the "respect" of people in the game is no longer about how much you help when your country calls for it. It isn't about coming up with strategies that will help your country win. Now all it is about is your score, and how many kills you land. And that my friend is sad. If a newbie comes in and doesn't have the 4-5 hours daily to devote to this game to get "good," no matter how hard that person tries, he doesn't gain the "respect" for trying, or attempting to learn. Yes I admit I am hard on the Newbies that come in asking how to fly or how to land or shoot or whatever inane question they come up with that could have easily been read on the website. But kids like Lt. Manny or some of those with zip-code names, who actually try to learn the more advanced things, aren't given any respect simply because their voice is high-pitched, no matter how hard they try. And with that attitude, alot of the "squeekers" get fed up with the constant disparagement and belittlement and then hit back by griefing the older sticks. Can you really blame them? If you want the community to come together, lead by example. Let the "older sticks" give a little respect out from the get-go instead of sitting in their ivory towers judging all the little peons like myself who aren't quite as well practiced. The "Vets" are the ones who keep this communities' core operating, but please remember that we were all newbs at one time.
“This is the final test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible service to him” -William Lyon Phelps
I think some of the "Vets", and not all and not even most, but some would do well to remember this.
Ever hear of the paragraph? It makes things much easier to read/comprehend.
As to the original post all I saw was someone trying to justify hoard mentality. We all paly to have fun. Just how much fun do you think the guy getting ganged is having? 3 on 1 is at least reasonable and gives a better stick a fighting chance. Anything more than that is simply unsportsmanlike. Of course you can argue that sportsmanship wasn't part of real life either but this isn't real life, it's a game.
I generally fly alone. I've had nice 1 on 1/1 on 2's turn into 1 on 10's and even 1 on 20's. Does it really take that many little hoardlets to kill me? I'm guessing it wasn't even that much fun for 19 of them, especially since there were no other cons around.
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As to the original post all I saw was someone trying to justify hoard mentality. We all paly to have fun. Just how much fun do you think the guy getting ganged is having? 3 on 1 is at least reasonable and gives a better stick a fighting chance. Anything more than that is simply unsportsmanlike. Of course you can argue that sportsmanship wasn't part of real life either but this isn't real life, it's a game.
Yep.
And you know, it's not only unsporting to your foe, but to your friends as well. THEY'VE been doing all the work, THEY'VE been bleeding the guy of all his E, THEY'RE wondering who this fella is that can last so long against them, THEY'RE the ones that deserve this kill, and you just come in late to the party and take the scalp and credit?
Poor form all around to be the 4th in. The person who does it on purpose is selfish, end of story. If you've been playing less than two months, you have an excuse. Otherwise...
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Ever hear of the paragraph? It makes things much easier to read/comprehend.
Sorry I am terrible about that. I get into a rant and forget all about proper form. My apologies :).
As to the original post all I saw was someone trying to justify hoard mentality. We all paly to have fun. Just how much fun do you think the guy getting ganged is having? 3 on 1 is at least reasonable and gives a better stick a fighting chance. Anything more than that is simply unsportsmanlike. Of course you can argue that sportsmanship wasn't part of real life either but this isn't real life, it's a game.
I generally fly alone. I've had nice 1 on 1/1 on 2's turn into 1 on 10's and even 1 on 20's. Does it really take that many little hoardlets to kill me? I'm guessing it wasn't even that much fun for 19 of them, especially since there were no other cons around.
Yes that was the Topic of my original post. Yes there are instances where flying alone works and most of the time I do fly alone. And yes I do Laugh when I see 20 people chasing one enemy. And no i don't think it's much fun for 19 other guys to drop on my target. But again if you fly into a situation where the odds are 20/1 you can expect to have all 20 cons after you and rightly so. A good tactic is to wait until two or three people are taking off for the same base and jump in with them. Try to organize some kind of coherent strategy, and all land with 2-3 kills. It is not a good tactic to fly solo into an enemy base with 20 enemies all at higher alt and then whine about it when you get chased by those 20 cons.
Lets say for argument's sake that you go to an enemy base that has 20 enemies flying over it. And lets say that only 2 drop down after you. You polish both of those enemies off. Should those other 18 just stay at alt or should a few more drop down and finish you off? The answer we all want is no. They should "respect" your gutsy flying against overwhelming odds and getting two kills and let you egress home to land your two kills and then <S> you on 200. But the logical answer is to drop down on you en-mass and finish you off before you do anymore damage. I am sorry that the game is sometimes not fair in that respect but that is the way of the world.
Yep.
And you know, it's not only unsporting to your foe, but to your friends as well. THEY'VE been doing all the work, THEY'VE been bleeding the guy of all his E, THEY'RE wondering who this fella is that can last so long against them, THEY'RE the ones that deserve this kill, and you just come in late to the party and take the scalp and credit?
Poor form all around to be the 4th in. The person who does it on purpose is selfish, end of story. If you've been playing less than two months, you have an excuse. Otherwise...
Completely agreed. If they ask for help it is another story but before you engage with an enemy that is obviously engaged with a friendly that is winning, it is polite to ask if they need some help. Or at the least watch his six to make sure the enemies' friends don't jump into the fight.
And for clarification's sake, When I said "To take it to the Dueling Arena", I was not trying to be a butt about that but looking back I probably could have found a better way to put that. What was meant was, if you want a strictly fair fight, where you know you are not going to get ganged, or you can use all the fancy maneuvering you want to your hearts content, that is the place for it. In the MA, my job and my fun come from getting down the enemy that has engaged me or that I have engaged in anyway that I can. If you can out-fly and out-maneuver me every time, that's not much incentive for me to fight a 1v1 fair fight, now is it? Yes I learn alot and most times when I get shot down I will private msg the person and ask what could I have done better. Usually the answer I get is, "Not get shot-down." However funny this answer maybe it does not hold to the people's contention that "we all" want the best dogfights that we can get. Otherwise we would all be working together to improve the other persons skill.
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Seems to me that if the entire purpose was to shoot down the enemy, then perhaps the concept of capturing bases and strats should be removed from the game. While we are at it we should remove field ack, ord, bombers, missions, etc...because if it is all about air to air combat, what do we need the rest of it for? Seems like a useless distraction to me.
Me, too! Some great ideas here!
- oldman
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Me, too! Some great ideas here!
- oldman
:aok
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seems to me if I remember correctly Mcquire was killed because he violated his own rules while trying to beat Dick Bong in the Ace of ace's race going on at the time?
This is not ment as disrespect to the hero but just a fact of the war.
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Also Guppy, gaining the "respect" of people in the game is no longer about how much you help when your country calls for it. It isn't about coming up with strategies that will help your country win. Now all it is about is your score, and how many kills you land. And that my friend is sad. If a newbie comes in and doesn't have the 4-5 hours daily to devote to this game to get "good," no matter how hard that person tries, he doesn't gain the "respect" for trying, or attempting to learn. Yes I admit I am hard on the Newbies that come in asking how to fly or how to land or shoot or whatever inane question they come up with that could have easily been read on the website. But kids like Lt. Manny or some of those with zip-code names, who actually try to learn the more advanced things, aren't given any respect simply because their voice is high-pitched, no matter how hard they try. And with that attitude, alot of the "squeekers" get fed up with the constant disparagement and belittlement and then hit back by griefing the older sticks. Can you really blame them? If you want the community to come together, lead by example. Let the "older sticks" give a little respect out from the get-go instead of sitting in their ivory towers judging all the little peons like myself who aren't quite as well practiced. The "Vets" are the ones who keep this communities' core operating, but please remember that we were all newbs at one time.
“This is the final test of a gentleman: his respect for those who can be of no possible service to him” -William Lyon Phelps
I think some of the "Vets", and not all and not even most, but some would do well to remember this.
I would like to think that I lead by example, in how I present myself in the game, and on the boards. Folks know what my attitude is. They know I'll help if I can. There are many many vets with the same attitude. That's not the issue. It isn't the vets promoting the horde mentality outside of a few.
When I don't join the vulch pattern, or lug bombs to kill fighter hangers. When I don't jump into someone elses fight unless they ask for help. When I up from a capped base, or wade into a crowde from below I'd like to think my message is clear. This is a game, where I can risk dying in a fight becasue the only risk I can take is the fight. I don't PM people if they kill me, other then to say nice fight on occasion. I don't use 200 that way either. If I get shot down, and it happens often, I just get my new 38G and go again.
Again there are lots of guys out there, who are vets, that approach the game that way. I've got a squad full of them, there are other squads with the same approach. It's not like it's frowned upon to get into a fight.
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I would like to think that I lead by example, in how I present myself in the game, and on the boards. Folks know what my attitude is. They know I'll help if I can. There are many many vets with the same attitude. That's not the issue. It isn't the vets promoting the horde mentality outside of a few.
When I don't join the vulch pattern, or lug bombs to kill fighter hangers. When I don't jump into someone elses fight unless they ask for help. When I up from a capped base, or wade into a crowde from below I'd like to think my message is clear. This is a game, where I can risk dying in a fight becasue the only risk I can take is the fight. I don't PM people if they kill me, other then to say nice fight on occasion. I don't use 200 that way either. If I get shot down, and it happens often, I just get my new 38G and go again.
Again there are lots of guys out there, who are vets, that approach the game that way. I've got a squad full of them, there are other squads with the same approach. It's not like it's frowned upon to get into a fight.
Good post, but I hear the term "vet" being thrown around alot in everyone's writing, but what constitutes as a vet exactly? X amount of days spent on this game? Here from the beginning?
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Good post, but I hear the term "vet" being thrown around alot in everyone's writing, but what constitutes as a vet exactly? X amount of days spent on this game? Here from the beginning?
Long enough to have a clue :)
Yeah you
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Guppy please don't misunderstand I was not singling you out or even applying that to you. Have flown with you and your squad before and have nothing but respect for you. My comments were more of generalization, was just addressing the comments to you in the context of the discussion. No disrespect intended. :salute
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As soon as this becomes a 1 life and you never get to fly again game, you can start using real life as a comparison. Since we get to choose the engagement, our aircraft, our altitude, and control all the cards, this isn't real life.
Imagine the screams in here, if when you entered the arena, HTC chose your job, your plane, your environment, your squadron mates etc.
"Thank you for signing up with Aces High. You have been assigned to fly Val's and are stationed on an island that at this point is far away from any actual combat. You have little fuel, no spare parts, and when the enemy shows up, he has masssive numbers, altitude, performance and pilot skill. Thank you for your 14.95 and enjoy your time in the game. Once you die, you will never be allowed to play again."
This needs a sticky for all the HO/Gang threads from now into eternity...Great stuff Dan! :salute
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Ever hear of the paragraph? It makes things much easier to read/comprehend.
As to the original post all I saw was someone trying to justify hoard mentality. We all paly to have fun. Just how much fun do you think the guy getting ganged is having? 3 on 1 is at least reasonable and gives a better stick a fighting chance. Anything more than that is simply unsportsmanlike. Of course you can argue that sportsmanship wasn't part of real life either but this isn't real life, it's a game.
I generally fly alone. I've had nice 1 on 1/1 on 2's turn into 1 on 10's and even 1 on 20's. Does it really take that many little hoardlets to kill me? I'm guessing it wasn't even that much fun for 19 of them, especially since there were no other cons around.
Well said BaldEagl, I agree.
About the "VET" and "RESPECT" comments further up the posts, are you kidding? Most of the VETS if thats what you want to call them have created this generation of players that they complain about through the years of play and excuses in tactics they use.
You WILL NOT find these "VETS" alone very often or AT ALL, but if and when you do, they will usually turn tail and call out the cavalry to shoot you down instead of fight, yet brag about how they are so good and everyone else is somehow inferior to them. So what is there to respect about that kind of play? Nothing. If thats how the VETS want to play the GAME, fine. But dont expect anyone to RESPECT you.
Respect is used so loosley in this game, I dont care if someone has played this "GAME" for 1 yr, 5 yr, 10+ yrs... RESPECT is not a givin due to time in game. Its actually more deeper than that and would deal with how you "PLAY", how you treat others, how you respond to BBS comments, etc. etc.
A couple of days ago, I had a wonderful fight between myself and two others... a classic 2vs1. I shot them both down without anyone resorting to hoing and was actually a good fight. Did I expect a <S> from these two guys, nope.
They were probably more pissed at me since they had all these kills from picking some noob umteen times and were running to land (yes they did have ammo), They were killed with an advantage in the most honorable way and by a better stick. That my friend will get you respect.
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Most, but not all, of my whines are from the perspective of the side doing the ganging. It's a terrible waste of resources. No more than 2 friendlies should be required to down one enemy. If you follow that rule you and the friendlies around you can kill far more efficiently than a country that's full of gangtards.
I agree with you Anaxogoras. That being said, AH, since 2002 when I began, differed and is gamey in respect to the multiple lives pilots have. As it should, since it is a game.
One of the aspects of the game that has been lost is "efficiency." There's nothing to win anymore. A game with no winning is like, like, well, I don't know what it is like. Since that's the case, there's really no call for efficient use of resources.
When I returned to flying a few weeks ago, I worked on my k/d ratio under and got it to 1.3 to 1.7. No stimulation. Talk about the lone wolf effort. Granted those #'s are low too. Was no "wow this is fun lets see if we can get it done." No "we" to it.
Base captures still happen of course. But there's no sustained drive by any side to win the war. Not their fault either. The dynamics, that is the rules, may not prohibit it, but they sure work against it.
The best part of the game is the fellowship. Finding guys and hooking up and having fun. But there's this inescapable something that nags at me, "now, why are your doing this? What's the object of this game?"
I guess the answer "to have fun" is still present. But in all contests "fun" doesn't cover adequately the experience of the endeavor. Think football. There was lots about practice and games that was not fun. It was hard work. But the desire to have your side win made it all seem worthwhile. That part has been lost.
I'm assuming that since the changes have become permanent, they have been a very good business decision by HTC. But the field on online WW2 gaming is still in its infancy. Imagine what my be available in 15 years. We probably would not believe it if we were told today about it.
The only real weakness in HTC's product is it does not provide the essential outcome that all games provide, winners and losers. Might it always be profitable as a business despite that. Yes.
I would not be surprised that the next generation of WW2 online flight sim game designers are already dialed into AH and looking to see what HTC does right and what they do wrong. Neither would I be surprised that sometime in the next 5 years or so, we'll see a company host a game that has all the pluses that AH provides along with the conspicuously absent winners and losers.
This latest generation of gameplay and pilots shows that anyone can excel at AH. Time and attention is what it takes. The first thing that got me hooked was what strikes everyone in the face when they play: wow. This is cool flying about shooting at folks. Then, what really sunk the hook in deeply was the fact that folks from all over the world could work together for the common goal of winning the war. That battle has been fought and lost. It's not the game we have today and what we do have must please the majority of players because my guess is business is booming. Lots of updates, improvements, cool stuff generally.
Still, there's an opening for a WW2 flying game that has all that HTC provides plus those parts it has left behind.
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Wow....What a read this has been. I have been playing AH for about 3 months or less. I did play Air Warrior for about two years prior to its disappearance and i have learned one thing..........It is the same in AH as it was in Air Warrior. Some people are sore losers. There is no getting around it and you certainly will NEVER change them in that regard. When i get shot down (I do that a LOT!) i simply re-up in a new plane and try again. It is really that simple. It doesn't matter whether i get HO'd, jumped by 50 guys or ran into a tree because i was too stupid to look around after a dive. I am still dead and i need to get back into the action.
As for the "honor" or the "Vets" i have discovered that almost all of these folks are VERY friendly! I have NEVER been disrespected because of a question. I DID read the website first, I did download the instruction manual (My Girlfriend loved that one!) and i did fly in the training area for awhile before venturing out into the "Real World". I try not to ask stupid questions but i am sure i have and they have all been answered with respect.
I also try to help out whenever i can. I cant offer a lot of help but when asked a question i know i answer it...Simple as that.
Now.......For the real life Vs Game comparison..........
I realize that there are two schools of thought here. you have to consider WHY you play before you can answer the RL v G question.
1. If you play to experience what the actual WWII pilots did, flew like, then yes...you want the game to mimic that in almost every regard. AH and AWIII were unique in this aspect as they accomplished this well. Flying against ACTUAL human beings is by far more enjoyable than flying against some programmers idea of how WWII pilots SHOULD have flown. It is the unpredictable nature of the game that appeals to the real lifers.
2. If you play because the game itself is challenging (It is), you want the highest score possible or you want to yuk it up with your friends WHILE playing a game than your also in the right place.
Hitech has done a great job at accommodating both of these types of players. I personally like a little of both aspects. I LOVE WWII Aviation, I LOVE history and I LOVE playing computer games. AH satisfies all of these requirements for me and i love them for it. I love the fact that i can jump into a plane with my squaddies and do what we were BORN to do and at the same time do not have to worry about whether our wills are filled out or whether our wives/girlfriends will become widows.
Sportsmanship and honor are things that are earned. If you give it you will get it...... It really is as simple as that. We ALL pay to be here...Why whine about what someone else is doing? If they CHOSE to fly into a situation where they are going to get shot down then let them. I dint see how this detracts from YOUR enjoyment of the game. If it is about the fact that you get jumped by 10, 20, 30 flyer's than learn from your mistake and try really hard NOT to get into that situation. Just like the old joke........"Hey doc it hurts when i move my arm" ....."Dint move your arm"
I want to close this by saying that in no way did i mean any disrespect to ANY of the posters on this thread. I can actual see both sides of this argument and i agree with some of it from both sides. I just think that what others do in the game should in no way detract from your enjoyment of the game. If they do something to you that you do not like, Find another fight somewhere else. Hitech has given us choices that we should utilize. Trying to change how someone else plays in the game is an act of futility and will only end in you becoming frustrated and not enjoying a game that you pay to play.
Fair skies and tailwinds to all
"Ghostber"
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One of the aspects of the game that has been lost is "efficiency." There's nothing to win anymore. A game with no winning is like, like, well, I don't know what it is like. Since that's the case, there's really no call for efficient use of resources.
Base captures still happen of course. But there's no sustained drive by any side to win the war. Not their fault either. The dynamics, that is the rules, may not prohibit it, but they sure work against it.
The only real weakness in HTC's product is it does not provide the essential outcome that all games provide, winners and losers. Might it always be profitable as a business despite that. Yes.
MMORPG's have no clear winners or losers and yet they are THE most popular games on the market today. World of Warcraft doesnt have a clear winner or loser...People play the game for the experiance of the game itself. Not for winning or losing. so while i feel your point was made eloquently i dont agree with it.
The best part of the game is the fellowship. Finding guys and hooking up and having fun. But there's this inescapable something that nags at me, "now, why are your doing this? What's the object of this game?"
I couldnt agree with you more but you have asked and answered your own question! We do this because of the fellowship, The challange and the thrill of the kill. It feeds a primal need to hunt that we can do safely within the confines of our homes. It isnt about winning or losing. Besides...When your in a good fight and you are victorious...isnt that winning??
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The only real weakness in HTC's product is it does not provide the essential outcome that all games provide, winners and losers.
I have to take major issue with this statement.
The beauty of AH is that it provides so many winners and losers on so many levels. There is the individual fight, the base capture, the war win, the score win (in multiple categories btw), etc. Moving beyond that are the less quantifiable wins; surviving against overwhelming odds or in an "obsolete" aircraft, an exceptional sortie, your name in lights landing kills, etc., etc., etc. These winners and losers might be individuals, teams (squads), entire countries or just a couple guys winging up.
The beauty of AH is that there's something for everyone and I think that contributes to it's success. Everyone has the chance to be a winner (or loser) everytime they log on. It all depends on what you're looking for.
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Then, what really sunk the hook in deeply was the fact that folks from all over the world could work together for the common goal of winning the war. That battle has been fought and lost.
It's not as though winning the war is out of the question... The problem is, the same people who don't want to put in any effort to sit down and think about the air combat aspects of this game, don't put in any effort to sit down and think about the strategic aspects of this game, either.
Many people who claim furballers are "Mindless," need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
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You know what I like to whine about.... why do people insist on comparing this GAME to real life?
Of course if more people looked at it as a game more people might avoid ganging a good fight, maybe avoid a "cheap shot" HO, avoid vulching, avoid spawn camping, in general, learn to play the game, not to "game" the game. Score isn't the most important thing in this game. It is a fighter simulation game, a game where you are suppose to "fight" players from all over the world. Pit your skills against live opponents in simulated air to air combat. I've never seen any place where it says to have the best score.
yaknow, i say what you said a lot...no one listens. i read grims next post following the one i quoted here.......he doesn't get it, and probably never will.....i can't make myself read any further in this one......
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seems to me if I remember correctly Mcquire was killed because he violated his own rules while trying to beat Dick Bong in the Ace of ace's race going on at the time?
This is not ment as disrespect to the hero but just a fact of the war.
He violated his own dicta to save a wingman when he spun in and died.
ack-ack
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Good post, but I hear the term "vet" being thrown around alot in everyone's writing, but what constitutes as a vet exactly?
When you have "Playing Since Tour XXX" in your signature then you've hit "Vet" status.
ack-ack
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I Would like to thank everyone who posted in this topic. Most replies were well thought-out and wise. I never expected to start such a long and serious topic on the philosophy of AHII. I think that most of us agree that the reason we play is for fun, and comradeship with our friends. All I really wanted to express is the sadness at whining in general that can be found, by that I mean it seems there is no right way but plenty of wrong ways to shoot someone down as someone posted earlier. You are right this is just game. I hope that in my posts I have not offended anyone, and I think we can all agree to disagree. I hope to see you all in the air, and <S> to each and every one of you. No hard feelings from my end, I hope none from yours. I have learned a lot from some of you and will try to be more "friendly" I guess is the word, with the tactics I employ to shoot someone down.
:salute
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When I get shot down....I cuss and bit*h about how the guy cheated.......(unless Im drunk)....the
I reup and go at it again. Guess Im a masochist
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MMORPG's have no clear winners or losers and yet they are THE most popular games on the market today. World of Warcraft doesnt have a clear winner or loser...People play the game for the experiance of the game itself. Not for winning or losing. so while i feel your point was made eloquently i dont agree with it.
Ghost, thanks for posting. Besides playing Quake once back in 1998??? at a friends house on his network at home, I've never tried those games. But boy are you right. THE most popular.
And I think HTC dialed into that. Sucessfully so. Great business decision. Proof's in the pudding.
Even so, a very saavy game builder, someday, will provide the missing ingredients I expect. But then, maybe times have changed so much that it would be a silly thing to do so.
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The key to happiness in the MA is accepting the fact that most players fly in hoards. Once you accept this, and can hold your tongue, you can have fun fighting them, and quite often win. It takes alot of practice, and dicipline knowing when to abandon the easy shot on a guy that will take place in 5 seconds, when you instead need to break off that easy shot to avoid the other guy who will shoot you in 3 seconds.
Use it as a learning tool,and you will improve. Let the other guys fly the way they do, they will anyways.
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yay go horde! :aok
I bumped into a organised 190 mission that turned into a gangbang last night while i was low- it came with the customary tempest screaming in at 500mph. I can understand dispatching a few guys to deal with a low con, but 6, 7 or 8 of them? It's a little excessive to say the least. :) As filth said you have to accept the horde unfortunately.
You can even watch it - all 2 mins of it. :D
http://www.4shared.com/file/64566109/e12246bd/190horde.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/64566109/e12246bd/190horde.html)
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(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/52Hoosier/sharkattack.gif)
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I takes'em as I find'em....
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There's an important thing to understand about this topic. The tendency is for the individual to look at this subjectively and in temporal isolation. This is especially true if he is the recent victim of a horde bang. But, step back and look at the bigger tactical picture. Gang hording a single con is bad tactics. The more enemy that engage a single bandit the more vulnerable they become to any other enemy bandit that approaches and the less likely they are individually to score a victory.
For example, say I am wandering into an area, there's 1 friendly at 12k, 5 enemy at 15k and me at 10k. Well, the 5 enemy at 15k don't notice me as I am far away, but they all pile on my friendly who has no choice but to spiral dive defensively in my general direction. I come in and kill two or three of the enemy that blew all of their E chasing my friend as they are now below me, and my friend is able to escape with me as cover. By all attacking my single friend they unecessarily put themselves in a position to be attacked at a disadvantage. The enemy bandits only had a 20% chance each to score a victory, all factors being equal.
Now say instead, the 5 enemy do not all engage my friend, only 2 do. Now my friend is engaged and as I approach I am confronted by 3 enemy higher than me and either forced to engage or egress. Either way my friend and I are in no position to mutually assist one another. We'd both be doing well to just survive an encounter with multiple higher enemy. Both groups of enemy were able to attack with the advantage.The enemy bandits on my friend had a 50% chance of scoring a victory and the ones on me had a 33% chance.
The second scenario is actually how it happened in real life. Only the force necessary was applied, the remaining elements stayed as top cover to confont other, hitherto unknown, bogeys. So, in the game, anytime you see gang banging you can take comfort in the fact that they are relatively ineffective because they are resigning themselves to a much smaller fraction of kills and making themselves much more vulnerable to being killed. In essence they are making things a lot easier for you and your team than it would be if they didn't gang-bang.
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Exactly Zazen...
Economy of force. Makes complete tactical sense and actually enhances the enjoyment of those that play the game, on both sides.
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(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb261/SavageArtistry/smilies/smileyinvasion.gif)
There's an important thing to understand about this topic. The tendency is for the individual to look at this subjectively and in temporal isolation. This is especially true if he is the recent victim of a horde bang. But, step back and look at the bigger tactical picture. Gang hording a single con is bad tactics. The more enemy that engage a single bandit the more vulnerable they become to any other enemy bandit that approaches and the less likely they are individually to score a victory.
For example, say I am wandering into an area, there's 1 friendly at 12k, 5 enemy at 15k and me at 10k. Well, the 5 enemy at 15k don't notice me as I am far away, but they all pile on my friendly who has no choice but to spiral dive defensively in my general direction. I come in and kill two or three of the enemy that blew all of their E chasing my friend as they are now below me, and my friend is able to escape with me as cover. By all attacking my single friend they unecessarily put themselves in a position to be attacked at a disadvantage. The enemy bandits only had a 20% chance each to score a victory, all factors being equal.
Now say instead, the 5 enemy do not all engage my friend, only 2 do. Now my friend is engaged and as I approach I am confronted by 3 enemy higher than me and either forced to engage or egress. Either way my friend and I are in no position to mutually assist one another. We'd both be doing well to just survive an encounter with multiple higher enemy. Both groups of enemy were able to attack with the advantage.The enemy bandits on my friend had a 50% chance of scoring a victory and the ones on me had a 33% chance.
The second scenario is actually how it happened in real life. Only the force necessary was applied, the remaining elements stayed as top cover to confont other, hitherto unknown, bogeys. So, in the game, anytime you see gang banging you can take comfort in the fact that they are relatively ineffective because they are resigning themselves to a much smaller fraction of kills and making themselves much more vulnerable to being killed. In essence they are making things a lot easier for you and your team than it would be if they didn't gang-bang.