Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FLOTSOM on October 03, 2008, 04:37:11 PM
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For the sake of an understanding to all of us not in the know,
"What is the technical definition of a H.O. and at what time in an engagement does it occur?"
i have been accused of hoing when i fire from any forward position of the enemy plane, including from the bottom up the top down steep angles turning in ect.
i have been told that a H.O. can only occur on the initial merge and that after that all is fair when turn fighting, but then Ive been told that its a H.O. no matter when its occurs.
It seems to me that those who complain about the H.O. the most tend to be the ones who change the rules to suit their actions at any given moment. one particular individual got mad at me and accused me be a H.O. (took no offense as i will H.O. if you fly at me firing your guns) when in this particular engagement i fired upon him from a climb and strafed him down the length of the bottom of his plane. then later in the night in another entanglement with this same individual we merged and began a twisting downward spiral he fired upon me on three separate head in passes, to his demise i noticed the ground coming before he did, but when i called him out on his H.O. shots he stated its only a H.O. on the merge.
same individual, next evening, 6 turns into an engagement i put a load of 20mm into his nose and canopy, "YOU F&*&ING HOTARD" is private typed to me.
Will one of you fine marauders of the cartoon air please be gracious enough to lay out what the definition of a H.O. is and what point in a fight it is applicable for those of us not in the know?
(Oh, and just as a p.s., since Ariel combat first began in WWI and right up until the present day, standard military tactics and procedure dictates that when being attacked you should first turn into your enemy, by doing so you shorten the time and firing opportunity your opponent may have, as well as possibly opening an opportunity for you to fire upon him in the merge. So please this is not a "well in WWII" so and so did this or SO and so did that....ect. this is about in game etiquette only.)
Thanx
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H.O. or 'Head Opposite' is when you are looking behind you and a noob collides with you while trying to get a hit. :D
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H.O. or 'Head Opposite' is when you are looking behind you and a noob collides with you while trying to get a hit. :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl GUILTY AS CHARGED
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A HO is when both planes have a firing solution. If only 1 does its a deflection shot.
It really is that simple. :aok
I use a simple rule in game, avoid all HO attempts from others. After the same plane has tried twice to HO me,
the third time he gets a face full. Kinda like the 3 strikes your out rule. :O
Personally, if your trying to HO me, your just givin me the inside turn on the next pass. So HO away, it'll just get you killed. Even if you win the HO, chances are your gonna take damage too. So it's a low percentage propostion
at best. Try learning how to pull a guys 6 and then shoot him, it's alot more gratifying.
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(Oh, and just as a p.s., since Ariel combat first began in WWI and right up until the present day, standard military tactics and procedure dictates that when being attacked you should first turn into your enemy, by doing so you shorten the time and firing opportunity your opponent may have, as well as possibly opening an opportunity for you to fire upon him in the merge.
This not directed at you Flotsom, but some people interpret the "turn into the bandit" maxim of ACM to mean "honk around hard and HO" so I felt like it needs addressing.
This image is more representative of the way to "turn into" a bandit attacking with a dive. The defender doesn't really get a guns solution, HO or otherwise, and the attacker gets one that is more liable to hurt his position if he takes it than bring down the defender. (For further edification, watch any Batfink film.)
(http://www.simhq.com/_air/images/air_024a_28.gif)
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Depends on who you talk to.
The low skill tactic of nose on from 3k out, guns blazing from 1k out is what generated both the name and the stigma attached to it.
A forward quarter shot in the midst of a turn fight is a whole another animal in my opinion.
And should not have the same stigma attached to it, nor the same name as the other.
Call it a hot merge, call it whatever, just don't call it a HO.
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I think the most common answer you'll receive from most air combat fans is what SHawk describes. Some of ACM purists may disagree, and in the DA or secluded 1v1 engagement I may agree with them and look only for rear-hemisphere shots. But in the multi-threat environment I think the definition that both aircraft must have a firing solution is a good middle ground to define a head on scenario. It satisfies both the challenge and enjoyment of a manuvering engagement and the need to dispatch the oponent at nearly every opportunity to be ready to meet the next threat. It also has the added benefit of avoiding return fire.
That's the basic philosphy that I take in most the engagements in the MA, other factors do sometimes come into play that will change my approach, when facing multiple opponents for example I tend to be less selective when I can actually get guns on someone. :)
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Try this on for size.
An HO is when a pilot -- having significant time, speed, energy, position and/or a positive or neutral tactical situation to try and work for any other gun solution -- clearly decides, with intent and malice aforethought, to go for the 0-0 aspect shot.
Lacking (one or more) these positive criteria (especially time or tactical situation), a pilot taking such a shot would be considered taking a clearly respectable angle deflection shot (if slightly off the 0-0 aspect by some degree), or an advantageous and 'unexpected' firing opportunity, even if he was at 0-0 aspect at the moment of the shot.
In other words, if the guy has a calm, not under fire, some distance away moment or two where they could plan and execute any other manuever for a guns solution, but instead just bore in with lethal intent, then that is what I call a HO.
Anything else, is a valid, snap choice, right or wrong. No fame, no shame.
And in EITHER situation, if you get killed, it's your fault, not the other guys good or bad tactics, lame ACM, or lack thereof. If it's my definition of an HO, you had time to get out of the way. If it was anything else, your ACM wasn't good enough at that moment to prevent your dying. All your own fault. Live (or die) with it. :aok
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I never HO, I prefer to call it a 360 deg. deflection shot.
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nevermind
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H.O. or 'Head Opposite' is when you are looking behind you and a noob collides with you while trying to get a hit. :D
:rofl
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For the sake of an understanding to all of us not in the know,
"What is the technical definition of a H.O. and at what time in an engagement does it occur?"
i have been accused of hoing when i fire from any forward position of the enemy plane, including from the bottom up the top down steep angles turning in ect.
i have been told that a H.O. can only occur on the initial merge and that after that all is fair when turn fighting, but then Ive been told that its a H.O. no matter when its occurs.
It seems to me that those who complain about the H.O. the most tend to be the ones who change the rules to suit their actions at any given moment. one particular individual got mad at me and accused me be a H.O. (took no offense as i will H.O. if you fly at me firing your guns) when in this particular engagement i fired upon him from a climb and strafed him down the length of the bottom of his plane. then later in the night in another entanglement with this same individual we merged and began a twisting downward spiral he fired upon me on three separate head in passes, to his demise i noticed the ground coming before he did, but when i called him out on his H.O. shots he stated its only a H.O. on the merge.
same individual, next evening, 6 turns into an engagement i put a load of 20mm into his nose and canopy, "YOU F&*&ING HOTARD" is private typed to me.
Will one of you fine marauders of the cartoon air please be gracious enough to lay out what the definition of a H.O. is and what point in a fight it is applicable for those of us not in the know?
(Oh, and just as a p.s., since Ariel combat first began in WWI and right up until the present day, standard military tactics and procedure dictates that when being attacked you should first turn into your enemy, by doing so you shorten the time and firing opportunity your opponent may have, as well as possibly opening an opportunity for you to fire upon him in the merge. So please this is not a "well in WWII" so and so did this or SO and so did that....ect. this is about in game etiquette only.)
Thanx
when you shoot him in the face, and he could've done the same to you it's a ho......any time during the fight.
normally used by score mongers more than anyone.
one time it is acceptable, is during base defense, as most likely they're gonna be vulching and ho'ing to try n capture.
i only don't like em as i prefer the "dance" although i generally lose anyway.
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Sloehand thats a good description in my opinion.
I really agree with the end result, if you could have used ACM, tactics, to avoid his shot, and didn't, and died, well its your mistake then isn't it. So why whine about it?
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A HO is when both planes have a firing solution. If only 1 does its a deflection shot.
It really is that simple. :aok
now see.....this is where it can actually get UNsimple. 9 out of 10 it seems set up for a ho no matter what i try to do. so i let them get their setup....or so they think. i use a shallow slipping dive to build speed, and hopefully a bit of seperation. last minute, i push the nose over, and they rake me stem to stern. the fact is they were gonna shoot no matter what. that was still a ho, but they'll claim it wasn't as i had no shot on them. again, the fact is i did, and could've continued, but chose to make a vain attempt at having an actual fight, while they took the easy simple way out.
I use a simple rule in game, avoid all HO attempts from others. After the same plane has tried twice to HO me,
the third time he gets a face full. Kinda like the 3 strikes your out rule. :O
i give em one strike now. if i manage to avoid the first one, i open up on their second attempt.
Personally, if your trying to HO me, your just givin me the inside turn on the next pass. So HO away, it'll just get you killed. Even if you win the HO, chances are your gonna take damage too. So it's a low percentage propostion
at best. Try learning how to pull a guys 6 and then shoot him, it's alot more gratifying.
i had a fight on the deck the other night......started off me in a a6m5b vs a hurri2c. guess what the hurri did? he missed, and next thing i know, there's a 190, another zeke, a spit of some sort, and i think it was a fm2. each and every one of them kept tryin to ho me. to his credit, the fw did manage to set up a decent deflection shot as i was avoiding one of the ho's, but he also left himself open to me as he went by...i got a quick burst, and hit an oil line or something....he was out.....another minute or so, and i lost pieces, and finally hit the dirt.
friggin 5 guys though, and they all hadda ho.........very very sad........
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I have read again and again, in book after book of first hand accounts real life pilots taking head on shots. The fact is that head on shots are just as much a part of of Air Combat Maneuvers as being on somebodies six. This comunity need to get over it.
I have flown here for 100+ tours and during that time I have tried to stick to this phony chivalry of not firing on HO passes only to get shot down because they did not. If your opponent has his/her tracers off you have no idea you are being fired upon until you get close enough to see the muzzle flashes. At this point it is maybe too late. Also if you try to avoid a Head On pass you are giving up some angle to the enemy, which against an expert pilot maybe all the edge he needs to beat you.
The best advice i can give is the same thing a boxing referee tells you at the beginning of a match... "protect yourself at all times"
To the comunity I say ....."get over it"
Helm ...out
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TO me an HO is more of an "honor" thing. Most fights start out pretty close to head on. Honor would dictate that you do not fire on that first pass, if you do it's a HO.
With that being said, we all know there is very little if not no honor in the skies of aces high (which is pretty sad even for a game), so fire away !
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Let me ask this is the HO acceptable against formations of buffs ?
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IN THE MA>>>>
The entire plane is a target...so any shot is legitimate...
Sometimes a HO is the only shot you will get on a "picker" or "runner"...
It takes 2 to HO...the collision model should be incentive enough to avoid a HO if you care about damage...if not then why care if the damage came from bullets or another plane????
I find a HO less cowardly then shooting me from behind or the side where i cant ram or HO them :devil
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Let me ask this is the HO acceptable against formations of buffs ?
I'll shoot a Buff anywhere I can. But more seriously, It was a practice of the Luftwaffe to target Lancs by attacking them at their 10 or 2 oclock at the leading edge of the wing/fuselage connection. Not quite a HO, but close.
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I have read again and again, in book after book of first hand accounts real life pilots taking head on shots. The fact is that head on shots are just as much a part of of Air Combat Maneuvers as being on somebodies six. This comunity need to get over it.
Most of us are here to play cartoon fighter pilot, to try and recreate in some small way the daydreams we had as kids of swirling dogfights in the air while staring at a small armada of model aircraft hanging from the ceiling over our beds. This is a game, what those pilots you were reading about were participating in was a war. This game has far more in common with those childhood daydreams than what our communal heroes had to deal with. Here the consequences of deliberately not taking that first and potentially only shot in favor of an engagement of maneuver are not nearly has dire.
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I find a HO less cowardly then shooting me from behind or the side where i cant ram or HO them
:rofl
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Let me ask this is the HO acceptable against formations of buffs ?
ALTHOUGH I never set that up, i think it may be. i've had people set me up that way.....and it's where i can bring the least guns to bear on a target...........
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I have read again and again, in book after book of first hand accounts real life pilots taking head on shots. The fact is that head on shots are just as much a part of of Air Combat Maneuvers as being on somebodies six. This comunity need to get over it.
I have flown here for 100+ tours and during that time I have tried to stick to this phony chivalry of not firing on HO passes only to get shot down because they did not. If your opponent has his/her tracers off you have no idea you are being fired upon until you get close enough to see the muzzle flashes. At this point it is maybe too late. Also if you try to avoid a Head On pass you are giving up some angle to the enemy, which against an expert pilot maybe all the edge he needs to beat you.
The best advice i can give is the same thing a boxing referee tells you at the beginning of a match... "protect yourself at all times"
To the comunity I say ....."get over it"
Helm ...out
This is not WWII, this is a simulator game. Nobody here for simulating air combat really cares to fly 5-10 minutes to find an enemy to fight, only to have the first plane they see try to joust with them at the first merge.
It takes no skill at all to fly directly at an opposing planes nose with the trigger held squeezing the trigger. If the message you want to send to other players is "I have no skills for air combat" by all means proceed with that tactic, but don't compain about getting grief afterwards.
If both planes cannot get guns it is not a HO. Examples: I rope someone, and wait for them to stall nose up and shoot them. I have guns, they don't. Not a HO. I'm inside the opponents opposing turn circle and rake them as their flight path crosses under my belly. I could get guns, they could not. Not a ho.
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<SALUTE> to all who responded!!!!
Thank you for your opinions and advise in this matter. Mostly i appreciate getting those opinions and advice without having this thread turned into a finger pointing insult fest that allot of these types of threads tend to turn into.
once again i thank you and <SALUTE> you all
FLOTSOM
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A HO is when both planes have a firing solution. If only 1 does its a deflection shot.
It really is that simple. :aok
Quoted for truth. I'd expand a little and say that if one aircraft moves to avoid the HO when they could have taken it, but the other aircraft takes the shot, it's still an HO shot.
when you shoot him in the face, and he could've done the same to you it's a ho......any time during the fight.
normally used by score mongers more than anyone.
I flew for a good score last tour, and ho'ing is not the way to do it. You will collide too often, and other times simply be shot down if the bandit ho's back. There are exceptions, but people who regularly ho often rarely have a K/D of more than 1.5, and frequently less than 1.
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I'd expand a little and say that if one aircraft moves to avoid the HO when they could have taken it, but the other aircraft contorts out of their way to make the shot, it's clear they always intended on a HO shot.
Fixed. There is not a free pass for sloppy HO avoidance.
I see people try to lead turn very poorly quite often, and when they do, I pull the trigger. If one is going to try to lead turn before a merge, they better do it right or they are going to get shot. I'm doing them a favor letting them know they did it wrong ;)
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I didn't think what I said implied anything about whether or not hits were landed. :confused:
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:cry
If you were going to respond to these type of posts wouldn't it be easier to just copy and paste your old responses or make a Ho response macro.
You could have just did a search and found your answer in one of the 400 + threads on the subject dating back to the start of this forum. It's a bi-weekly question ya know.
Maybe we need a HO response sticky or have it defined on wikipedia. :aok
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Thing that makes a HO abit of a different proposition in this game than it was in real life is the icons, which make seeing, identifying, and shooting a small you are closing on at 650 mph an entirely different proposition.
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A HO??????????? I thought this was a HO
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e263/Forker1/Misc/Fleiss.jpg)
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That's a business woman.
This is a Ho
(http://houstonconservative.com/070806-cleavage.jpg) :rofl
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Most of us are here to play cartoon fighter pilot, to try and recreate in some small way the daydreams we had as kids of swirling dogfights in the air while staring at a small armada of model aircraft hanging from the ceiling over our beds. This is a game, what those pilots you were reading about were participating in was a war. This game has far more in common with those childhood daydreams than what our communal heroes had to deal with. Here the consequences of deliberately not taking that first and potentially only shot in favor of an engagement of maneuver are not nearly has dire.
What you say is essentially correct. But carry it further. Consider that many of us are trying, in some small way, to fulfill our daydreams a little bit, to experience what those historical pilots actually went through, and try to mimic how they flew and fought, within the limitations of this sim.
While considered the more 'chivalrous' service in WWI, it was not in WWII. It was kill or be killed, without warning, by ANY means possible. And it was never a duel. I've seen the statement often that 90% of kills occured without the victim even seeing his opponent. Definitely no honor there, nor any 'dueling' mentality.
But, this is a historical simulation AND a game, so people are free to play it any way they want to. Some people want to play the game in the MA's just for 1v1 fights, and it's their dime to play that way. I think they are missing out, but I'm not going to complain about it to them.
However, what I do take issue with is, these are primarily the people who whine about HO's. The other side of the coin is, the other guy is playing it like it really was, and it's HIS DIME TOO. So he plays it with no honor rules, no chivalry, no tipping the hat or handshake before the fight. It's the way it was, and even though this is just "a game", that's what's fun for them. Once in awhile these styles of play clash and that's to be expected, but in the aftermath, to even raise the issue of HO or no HO, honor or no honor, ACM or no ACM, is so pointless and worn out, it's beyond stupid.
And crying about the HO is something that contributes to the one thing about this game that I deplore. That it's given me a whole new perspective on the extreme lack of tolerance and manners of people in our society. More people than I'd ever have thought if I hadn't experience online gaming. Yes, I know, some is just smack talk and wonder weenies spouting off, but where there is smoke, there is fire. Too many people just love to rain on someone else's parade.
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Come on now its even easier then that and I think you know it! Guys get into the game they see a bunch of red airplanes (or whatever color) they get excited and want to show how good they are and dive right in without thinking about setup or preparation H or anything and first thing you know the whole bunch is hot in pursuit and then here comes one guy straggling home with half his wing gone and no rudder just barely flying and he gets HOed by a desperate noob.
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This is not WWII, this is a simulator game. Nobody here for simulating air combat really cares to fly 5-10 minutes to find an enemy to fight, only to have the first plane they see try to joust with them at the first merge.
It takes no skill at all to fly directly at an opposing planes nose with the trigger held squeezing the trigger. If the message you want to send to other players is "I have no skills for air combat" by all means proceed with that tactic, but don't compain about getting grief afterwards.
If both planes cannot get guns it is not a HO. Examples: I rope someone, and wait for them to stall nose up and shoot them. I have guns, they don't. Not a HO. I'm inside the opponents opposing turn circle and rake them as their flight path crosses under my belly. I could get guns, they could not. Not a ho.
First off no way is some noob gonna kill a pilot of your skill w/ a HO
Second what you are asking from your fellow players is some kind of Dueling arena rules ...thats not happening in the MA
thirdly In Air Warrior you could not get HO hits ....I allways felt this was lame as hell ....basically all anybody had to do was turn into you and they were safe ...forever!! ....It sucked... trust me
fourth you describe front 1/4 shots which many NEW pilots would classify as a HO ....they don't know the difference ...so in a way you reinforce their behavior by teaching them to do it ....if you gonna be Mr. Chivalry then drop the front 1/4 shots as well
Since you point out that this is not WW2 but a simulation ...whats the big deal if some noob kills you with a HO? ....you wasted 10min??? ....BIG DEAL
a 12 on 12 guns solution exists in the Real world .....AND in ACES high
Like I said: ...get over it
Helm ...out
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For the sake of an understanding to all of us not in the know,
"What is the technical definition of a H.O. and at what time in an engagement does it occur?"
i have been accused of hoing when i fire from any forward position of the enemy plane, including from the bottom up the top down steep angles turning in ect.
i have been told that a H.O. can only occur on the initial merge and that after that all is fair when turn fighting, but then Ive been told that its a H.O. no matter when its occurs.
It seems to me that those who complain about the H.O. the most tend to be the ones who change the rules to suit their actions at any given moment. one particular individual got mad at me and accused me be a H.O. (took no offense as i will H.O. if you fly at me firing your guns) when in this particular engagement i fired upon him from a climb and strafed him down the length of the bottom of his plane. then later in the night in another entanglement with this same individual we merged and began a twisting downward spiral he fired upon me on three separate head in passes, to his demise i noticed the ground coming before he did, but when i called him out on his H.O. shots he stated its only a H.O. on the merge.
same individual, next evening, 6 turns into an engagement i put a load of 20mm into his nose and canopy, "YOU F&*&ING HOTARD" is private typed to me.
Will one of you fine marauders of the cartoon air please be gracious enough to lay out what the definition of a H.O. is and what point in a fight it is applicable for those of us not in the know?
(Oh, and just as a p.s., since Ariel combat first began in WWI and right up until the present day, standard military tactics and procedure dictates that when being attacked you should first turn into your enemy, by doing so you shorten the time and firing opportunity your opponent may have, as well as possibly opening an opportunity for you to fire upon him in the merge. So please this is not a "well in WWII" so and so did this or SO and so did that....ect. this is about in game etiquette only.)
Thanx
FLOTSOM, every encounter with you has resulted in either a HO, HO-RAM, or you running away in an LA7 after missing a HO attempt. Please don't try to justify yourself by saying you fire from different angles and then get blamed for a HO... You couldn't make an angle shot with a lead computing gun sight, let alone on your own.. :rofl Suicide Dweeb indeed.....
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Try learning how to pull a guys 6 and then shoot him, it's alot more gratifying.
Is that why your boyfriends are never heard from? :uhoh :rofl :rofl
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I HO when I have a shot and he doesn't. I almost never get ho'd anymore after I learned to just move out of the way. It is pretty simple, move in any direction and they miss for the most part.
Last night I actually had someone complain to one of my squaddies that I was hoeing... At first I thought maybe I did something un ethical until I looked around my capped base a there was a 30 v 5. In that case anything in my sights get fired upon... So I quickly stopped feeling bad.
I grew out of whining a while back, especially if there is nothing you can do about it. I though most of us were adults. Anyway.
SWneocon
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First off no way is some noob gonna kill a pilot of your skill w/ a HO
Second what you are asking from your fellow players is some kind of Dueling arena rules ...thats not happening in the MA
Not at all. One of the first examples I'll show in training a newer player is the angles disadvantages of relying on a HO as a primary tactic. It is not a matter of chivallry. It is a tactic very easily countered and exploited (as you seem to say), and I try to not only make players aware of that fact, but show them how to automatically gain an advantage when the opponent is using it on them.
thirdly In Air Warrior you could not get HO hits ....I allways felt this was lame as hell ....basically all anybody had to do was turn into you and they were safe ...forever!! ....It sucked... trust me
Regardless of how you felt about it, the network technology wasn't there to make collision modeling practical when the game was developed. The tool they used to keep the game from devolving into planes flying through each other with guns blazing was to have arena settings defining the angle off that qualified as a head on, the percentage of hits to reject for a bomber, and percentage to reject for a fighter. So by the way, you did have a 15% chance on getting HO hits on a bomber, and a 3% chance on fighers. For planes with nose mounted guns, there actually was a pretty good chance of hitting HO shots due to the shear number of rounds hitting the target :) Bet you didn't know I knew that? If I knew where I had boxed my AW CM manual I could tell you what the angle off setting was :)
fourth you describe front 1/4 shots which many NEW pilots would classify as a HO ....they don't know the difference ...so in a way you reinforce their behavior by teaching them to do it ....if you gonna be Mr. Chivalry then drop the front 1/4 shots as well
As I said, it's not a matter of chivalry. A HO is a valid shot, but it is not always the smartest shot to intentionally seek...Though in some situation it very well be the best choice. On the other hand, any shot that does not leave the opponent the opportunity to shoot back is better than one that does in my book.
Like I said: ...get over it
This is the main point that caught my attention in your first post. Just because your opinion seems to be that there should be no stigma attached to the HO shot does not mean everyone else has to fall in line behind you and shut up.
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FLOTSOM, every encounter with you has resulted in either a HO, HO-RAM, or you running away in an LA7 after missing a HO attempt. Please don't try to justify yourself by saying you fire from different angles and then get blamed for a HO... You couldn't make an angle shot with a lead computing gun sight, let alone on your own.. :rofl Suicide Dweeb indeed.....
without a doubt there is always a punk in the crowd.
let me explain something to you mouth boy, i started this thread partially because of whinny wimpy little bioatchs like you. you sir are on of those "in the know" wanna be's that i spoke of who changes the definitions of a HO or a pick to suit and justify their actions or to whine and whimper about the actions of others.
this thread was created so that i could find a definning line between what was, in the majority of opinions, a HO and what was acceptable tactics. when i shot your lame ash down the other night i was already engaged with someone else and you, as you had done successfully once just the flight before, dropped in from the stratisphere to pick a plane already engaged in a turn fight with multiple others. you made the mistake of blowing your shot but then trying to come immediately back. i got a shot and you ate a load in the mouth. simple as that. or don't you remember that you also got a message that you collided? that was me crashing into your wingless carcass that you so rudely let fall into my flight path. oh and the third time we engaged.......yep you guessed it, i was engaged in a turn fight with 3 others and here comes the hero to save the day. yep they really needed your help against little ole me.
lets also not forget the discussion on 200 that night when you went into your rant of whining and moaning like a little girl, only to have your own country men call you a whiner and a bit of a baby (my favorite) but to have your own actions stuffed down your throat by me on 200. amazing the amount of dribble that spooges forth from your flap, your a lame and pathetic individual.
if you didn't realize it from the way this thread was written, and the "thank you" that i posted within for those not turning this thread into an insult contest but instead keeping it to a legitimate discussion on tactics and opinion thereof, then i will tell you clearly so that the shortbusser will get it..............This Conversation is for Adults or those with the INTELECT of an Adult Only Childish People NEED NOT REPLY!!!!!!
I apologise to the rest of you who have class and intelligence, those that chose to conduct this conversation and the responses they posted as an intelligent and reasonable conversation for adults wanting to share knowledge experience and wisdom with those of us who are in need of an honest opinion. i apologise for getting into the mud with a person who obviously has no respect for others and no class to know when he should just keep his mouth shut.
<SALUTE> to those of you willing to share your knowledge without your judgment
thank you
FLOTSOM
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The other side of the coin is, the other guy is playing it like it really was, and it's HIS DIME TOO. So he plays it with no honor rules, no chivalry, no tipping the hat or handshake before the fight. It's the way it was, and even though this is just "a game", that's what's fun for them.
If I may point out, "how it really was" depends on the platform, theater, and enemy platform. Take Tom McGuire's Combat Tactics in the South West Pacific:
Offered in evidence is the Japanese reaction to the head-on pass. They don't like it and nine out of 10 will break first, even before they are in range. To be sure, the head-on task cannot be recommended when flying a plane that has little armament, no convergence of lines of fire, and light armor, but what about this shout of "Banzai" and the suicide crash? Nothing about it because the Japanese aren’t living up toor dying for their propaganda. Instead they will break from the head-on pass in a vertical bank and try to come around for a tail attack. The P-38 pilot need only to keep on at the same speed or go into a shallow dive to defeat this tactic, for the emeny pilot loses speed in the bank and turn and will wind up too far behind to be a menace. In this case of the exceptional one who does hold to a head-on pass, simply push over. The Japanese pilot will invariably go up. One thing you must not do when committed to a head-on pass: you must not turn until entirely clear.
On one hand you have American fighter pilots encouraged to use the HO because it offers them and advantage, on the other hand it is observed that Japanese pilots will avoid that situation like the plague. So in this case "how it was" was in fact both ways depending on the survivability of using the tactic. I don't buy that the HO is employed out of some kind of historical accuracy the majority of the time. It may be sometimes, but the majority of the time it is out of ignorance of both history and tactics. However, move to another theater and the tactical recommendations may be completely different.
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I didn't think what I said implied anything about whether or not hits were landed. :confused:
No offence intended gavagai. I actually agree with you to a point. Probably, to you and I both, it is as plain as day when we try to avoid the HO and the enemy is hell bent, and bending over backwards to make a shot happen at the merge anyways. We *know* that the enemy had every intention of shooting on the merge no matter what aspect the shot would have been. It's pretty clear they are a "HOer".
However (making assumptions on your experience), it's also plain as day when someone acts like they have cart blanche to pre-turn a merge however they wish, and cry HO if they get shot at doing it. If they do it in such a way that they leave an easily aquired shot, that is their fault, not the shooters. Those kinds of nuances are where it gets sticky on crying HO because one could have gotten guns, but chose not to. Because an inexperienced player would not know the difference between the two.
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But, this is a historical simulation AND a game, so people are free to play it any way they want to. Some people want to play the game in the MA's just for 1v1 fights, and it's their dime to play that way. I think they are missing out, but I'm not going to complain about it to them.
However, what I do take issue with is, these are primarily the people who whine about HO's. The other side of the coin is, the other guy is playing it like it really was, and it's HIS DIME TOO. So he plays it with no honor rules, no chivalry, no tipping the hat or handshake before the fight. It's the way it was, and even though this is just "a game", that's what's fun for them. Once in awhile these styles of play clash and that's to be expected, but in the aftermath, to even raise the issue of HO or no HO, honor or no honor, ACM or no ACM, is so pointless and worn out, it's beyond stupid.
And crying about the HO is something that contributes to the one thing about this game that I deplore. That it's given me a whole new perspective on the extreme lack of tolerance and manners of people in our society. More people than I'd ever have thought if I hadn't experience online gaming. Yes, I know, some is just smack talk and wonder weenies spouting off, but where there is smoke, there is fire. Too many people just love to rain on someone else's parade.
While I occasionally get frustrated a the sheer number of people that I see that attempt the guns blazing nose to nose initial merge, on some level I can understand it, occasionally I'll mention it on squad vox and on bad nights where I'm having a rough go of it it does annoy me, when I'm shot down on those nights the anger can start to build and in all honesty it's usually partially pointed inwards because I know I fell for a newbie move.
I find the most enjoyment in the game in the move, counter move of aerial cartoon combat, not necessarily 1v1's as I consider myself a pretty poor duelist but in the larger context of a multiple plane engagement, furball, etc. There can be maneuvering in these situations I don't feel that I HO very often (although will on occasion, depending on the circumstances) and I have some small degree of success in these furballs. What frustrates me on a more intellectual level about the HO artist is that there is a lot this game has to offer if you take time to learn it and those that zoom around at 400mph guns blazing at everything that crosses in front of them are missing out on it. To me, it's not some idea of honor or anything of that nature it's a game play issue, to me game play would be better if people tried to work the fights a little deeper than what you see most the time in the MA is seems.
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What you say is essentially correct. But carry it further. Consider that many of us are trying, in some small way, to fulfill our daydreams a little bit, to experience what those historical pilots actually went through, and try to mimic how they flew and fought, within the limitations of this sim.
While considered the more 'chivalrous' service in WWI, it was not in WWII. It was kill or be killed, without warning, by ANY means possible. And it was never a duel. I've seen the statement often that 90% of kills occured without the victim even seeing his opponent. Definitely no honor there, nor any 'dueling' mentality.
But, this is a historical simulation AND a game, so people are free to play it any way they want to. Some people want to play the game in the MA's just for 1v1 fights, and it's their dime to play that way. I think they are missing out, but I'm not going to complain about it to them.
However, what I do take issue with is, these are primarily the people who whine about HO's. The other side of the coin is, the other guy is playing it like it really was, and it's HIS DIME TOO. So he plays it with no honor rules, no chivalry, no tipping the hat or handshake before the fight. It's the way it was, and even though this is just "a game", that's what's fun for them. Once in awhile these styles of play clash and that's to be expected, but in the aftermath, to even raise the issue of HO or no HO, honor or no honor, ACM or no ACM, is so pointless and worn out, it's beyond stupid.
And crying about the HO is something that contributes to the one thing about this game that I deplore. That it's given me a whole new perspective on the extreme lack of tolerance and manners of people in our society. More people than I'd ever have thought if I hadn't experience online gaming. Yes, I know, some is just smack talk and wonder weenies spouting off, but where there is smoke, there is fire. Too many people just love to rain on someone else's parade.
Horray!! Well said!!!
Helm ...out
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A HO is when both planes have a firing solution. If only 1 does its a deflection shot.
It really is that simple. :aok
I use a simple rule in game, avoid all HO attempts from others. After the same plane has tried twice to HO me,
the third time he gets a face full. Kinda like the 3 strikes your out rule. :O
Personally, if your trying to HO me, your just givin me the inside turn on the next pass. So HO away, it'll just get you killed. Even if you win the HO, chances are your gonna take damage too. So it's a low percentage propostion
at best. Try learning how to pull a guys 6 and then shoot him, it's alot more gratifying.
Not true. I actually got someone batter than me to try this theory in the DA. It turns out, a small advantage goes to the guy pursuing the HO shot at the merge. You guys confuse beating a nube with the hisHO giving you the advantage.
I am available to try any time if you want to see for yourself
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That's a business woman.
This is a Ho
(http://houstonconservative.com/070806-cleavage.jpg) :rofl
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Not true. I actually got someone batter than me to try this theory in the DA. It turns out, a small advantage goes to the guy pursuing the HO shot at the merge. You guys confuse beating a nube with the hisHO giving you the advantage.
I am available to try any time if you want to see for yourself
Why is that Ded? Is it because the "vet" pursuing the HO is already trying to establish an angle on you? Enlighten me oh grandmaster. :salute
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Not true. I actually got someone batter than me to try this theory in the DA. It turns out, a small advantage goes to the guy pursuing the HO shot at the merge. You guys confuse beating a nube with the hisHO giving you the advantage.
I am available to try any time if you want to see for yourself
So what is the best option to neutralize the HO threat and best set yourself up post-merge when you don't want to chance mutually assured destruction?
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Not true. I actually got someone batter than me to try this theory in the DA. It turns out, a small advantage goes to the guy pursuing the HO shot at the merge. You guys confuse beating a nube with the hisHO giving you the advantage.
I am available to try any time if you want to see for yourself
Not really...... Your not really going for the HO lets be honest about it... YOU want it to appear that you are... Because a real HO would be shooting not turning...... In your senario your turning not shooting....
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Not really...... Your not really going for the HO lets be honest about it... YOU want it to appear that you are... Because a real HO would be shooting not turning...... In your senario your turning not shooting....
Wrong on the first and right on the second. I tried it with bighorn in the DA. He knew I was going to try and get a HO shot and he had to try to avoid it. My goal was ti hit him at the merge and his to avoid and get an advantage on me. I think what happens in the process is by him trying to avoid and me pushing for the shot, I end up with an unintentional lead turn. He is turning to but he is turning away from me while I am turning inside him. Even though those were very small turns, I did end up with a small advantage after the merge. He is also busy trying to avoid my bullets so that takes him away from what ever merge he would like to use. All this of course, assumes that the hoer knows what he is doing and he is not going to just fly straight. So, yes, I was going to try and hit him HO but that was not the only plan. The plan was to generate an advantage from it. Was not faking the HO because had he not goten out of the way, I would have driven my plane into him.
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Not really...... Your not really going for the HO lets be honest about it... YOU want it to appear that you are... Because a real HO would be shooting not turning...... In your senario your turning not shooting....
Maybe i did not phrase it right. I opened fire at 1K and held the trigger down until we passed eachother
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Wrong on the first and right on the second. I tried it with bighorn in the DA. He knew I was going to try and get a HO shot and he had to try to avoid it. My goal was ti hit him at the merge and his to avoid and get an advantage on me. I think what happens in the process is by him trying to avoid and me pushing for the shot, I end up with an unintentional lead turn. He is turning to but he is turning away from me while I am turning inside him. Even though those were very small turns, I did end up with a small advantage after the merge. He is also busy trying to avoid my bullets so that takes him away from what ever merge he would like to use. All this of course, assumes that the hoer knows what he is doing and he is not going to just fly straight. So, yes, I was going to try and hit him HO but that was not the only plan. The plan was to generate an advantage from it. Was not faking the HO because had he not goten out of the way, I would have driven my plane into him.
I've been trying to figure out how to explain that for a while. Everytime I read, "I love it when someone goes for the HO because then I can maneuver to kill him that much faster..." I think of your explanation above, and why the going for the HO gives the other guy the turning advantage just doesn't seem intuitively right.
I'm sure there's more to it though.
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So what is the best option to neutralize the HO threat and best set yourself up post-merge when you don't want to chance mutually assured destruction?
Not sure that you could do both. You just have to hope that you are a better pilot than the him. I don;t know if this will make any sense but will try: Given close pilot skills (probably more true as skill levels rise) the HOer does get a small advantage. If there is a big gap in the skill level, if the hoer is they guy with the less skills, he will die faster. I think that is because he will miss and then he is lost not knowing what do to. A skilled HOer is a different animal than a nube. Lookat it this way, if we come in at a merge at a slight angle, I could open fire at 1K out and shoot to your left hoping that that makes you break a little to the right. So, I already kind of know your first move. That is an advanatage right there.
Raider, I hope I answered your question in these posts
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I've been trying to figure out how to explain that for a while. Everytime I read, "I love it when someone goes for the HO because then I can maneuver to kill him that much faster..." I think of your explanation above, and why the going for the HO gives the other guy the turning advantage just doesn't seem intuitively right.
I'm sure there's more to it though.
Nothing works better than trying it. Most people in the BBS talk about how easy they will kill a LALA or a SPIT16 or a HOer bla bla bla. They usually die in a few seconds when you fight them.
Ill try to do a diagram and post it. The simple way to look at it is: you turn first at the merge, you will most likely die. To avoid a HO, you have to turn.
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I did not intend to make that sound personal...Im not talking about you in the scenario you know what your doing... I was talking about a newer player.... They are shooting when they should be turning..That gets them killed quickly... a new player has no idea what his next move should be..... You on the other hand have already set something up.
I assume you were flying same plane co e ect..
The differance is your flying pro.active and newer player is player is flying re.active.....
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Nothing works better than trying it. Most people in the BBS talk about how easy they will kill a LALA or a SPIT16 or a HOer bla bla bla. They usually die in a few seconds when you fight them.
Ill try to do a diagram and post it. The simple way to look at it is: you turn first at the merge, you will most likely die. To avoid a HO, you have to turn.
Its easier to understand if you say... I think it has more to do with who controls the fight YOu have succesfully used the HO to ge the other player to fly re actively... while you mantain control of the fight because your flying pro active.....
I can think of initial merges where i turn first as long as it getts the other guy to re.act i have the advantage.... So i think its easier to undestand by saying that it has to do more with turning at the right time ,,, right spot .....not who turns first or second. because were all flying at differant speeds e states ect....
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:rofl :rofl :rofl GUILTY AS CHARGED
Me too, my aim generally sucks which is why I am normally in a ground gun....
But at the same time, if I'm trying to get a hit in and someone turns to point straight at me who is actually doing the HOing? Both parties are equally as guilty, otherwise both parties wouldn't be able to shoot.
Response to the person: Pot, meet Kettle
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Not really...... Your not really going for the HO lets be honest about it... YOU want it to appear that you are... Because a real HO would be shooting not turning...... In your senario your turning not shooting....
FACE IT........
more vet players use this than anyone. check scores and k/d ratios. you'll find that the top scoring players either pick, bnz, or ho.(most of the time. some actually fight).
sad part is they don't need to...which is why i don't understand it.
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:lol Cap1. Name a player in this game who doesn't pick. If such a person existed, no one would want them in their squad. ;)
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:lol Cap1. Name a player in this game who doesn't pick. If such a person existed, no one would want them in their squad. ;)
i know....we all do it at one time or another. i was referencing those that pick almost exclusivly....if no pick, then ho.......you know what i mean......
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i know....we all do it at one time or another. i was referencing those that pick almost exclusivly....if no pick, then ho.......you know what i mean......
Rank guys don't HO, except possibly against craft with vastly inferior firepower, because it is a 50/50 proposition. They front-quarter snapshoot at every opportunity with deadly accuracy, especially against otherwise occupied bandits, but veer off if it becomes apparent the bandit has the E and the willingness to HO back effectively.
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without a doubt there is always a punk in the crowd.
let me explain something to you mouth boy, i started this thread partially because of whinny wimpy little bioatchs like you. you sir are on of those "in the know" wanna be's that i spoke of who changes the definitions of a HO or a pick to suit and justify their actions or to whine and whimper about the actions of others.
Flotsom, you suck..... You DON'T WANT to get better because you'd rather take that 50/50 chance...That's why you ho...End of story.....
this thread was created so that i could find a definning line between what was, in the majority of opinions, a HO and what was acceptable tactics. when i shot your lame ash down the other night i was already engaged with someone else and you, as you had done successfully once just the flight before, dropped in from the stratisphere to pick a plane already engaged in a turn fight with multiple others.
You have a horrible memory, a grand imagination or, lie like most felons :)
you made the mistake of blowing your shot but then trying to come immediately back. i got a shot and you ate a load in the mouth.
My only mistake was not hoing back when I saw you started to fire at over D800. You didn't get a shot, you sprayed and prayed... That's not "taking a shot"..
that was me crashing into your wingless carcass that you so rudely let fall into my flight path. oh and the third time we engaged.......yep you guessed it, i was engaged in a turn fight with 3 others and here comes the hero to save the day. yep they really needed your help against little ole me.
lets also not forget the discussion on 200 that night when you went into your rant of whining and moaning like a little girl, only to have your own country men call you a whiner and a bit of a baby (my favorite) but to have your own actions stuffed down your throat by me on 200. amazing the amount of dribble that spooges forth from your flap, your a lame and pathetic individual.
if you didn't realize it from the way this thread was written, and the "thank you" that i posted within for those not turning this thread into an insult contest but instead keeping it to a legitimate discussion on tactics and opinion thereof, then i will tell you clearly so that the shortbusser will get it..............This Conversation is for Adults or those with the INTELECT of an Adult Only Childish People NEED NOT REPLY!!!!!!
I apologise to the rest of you who have class and intelligence, those that chose to conduct this conversation and the responses they posted as an intelligent and reasonable conversation for adults wanting to share knowledge experience and wisdom with those of us who are in need of an honest opinion. i apologise for getting into the mud with a person who obviously has no respect for others and no class to know when he should just keep his mouth shut.
<SALUTE> to those of you willing to share your knowledge without your judgment
thank you
FLOTSOM
FELON (sounds more appropriate than FLOTSOM), you are inferior for several reasons....
1. You're a felon, first and foremost...
2. You cannot spell or punctuate correctly...
3. You lie uncontrollably just as most criminals of your stature do..
4. Everyone, including your friends, know your an opportunistic dweeb who couldn't get on anyone's 6 in any instance... :)
5. You fly planes with 3 cannons or more (ho-ing in a plane without cannons just isn't economical is it :) )
6. You will not meet me in the DA so I can make a fool of you (since I know it's you and know you'll do nothing but ho)..
FELON, I urge you to meet me in the DA at a time of your choosing... We will have a spelling bee, an IQ test, and a duel..
All of which you will lose... :)
(http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/7739/0/Star_Wars_FAIL.ashx)
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Well if the pussbag didn't spooge forth from his lips then i guess he just wouldn't feel like life was worth living.
You my loser of the cartoon airways are without a doubt what in prison would be a TIER PUNK. you would run your suck when the doors are closed and you cant be reached, but as soon as the locks were turned and the doors opened you would be kneeling in a shower stall paying your rent. don't talk to me about felons punk, you are a victim of your own ignorance and someday someone like me will make you understand just how much that ignorance cost people with big mouths.
don't ever try to judge me as a person based upon a video game. i am 39 years old, I HAVE NEVER BROKEN MY OATH OR A PROMISE IN MY LIFE. can your pansy ash say that???? never??? my loyalty is without question, my honor is intact, i am the person you would beg to have as a friend when the poop hits the fan....because no matter the personal cost i will not turn my back. so felon i may be.....but 5 times the man you ll ever be without a doubt. (just go ask your ole lady) and i wouldn't make the mistake of casting judgment on those i call friends, they don't take kindly to loser running their mouths.
if my spelling is inaccurate then blame spell checker, cause unlike you i actually work on improving at whatever i apply myself to. thus the original purpose to this post.
as far as flying rigs with cannons? well i have a life outside this game so i have yet to attain the level of accurately firing upon an opponent that would ensure fast kills without multiple attempted shots taken, so the shots i do land need to count. and as i recall mouth boy all three of our engagements constituted you in a plane carrying cannons. Unless you were issued the only p38g that they forgot to put them on.
you forget when you run your mouth about what happened to mention that the 2 kills you have against me i was flying a hurricane, while you were booming in your 38. but when i came back in a plane that could at least climb and some what pace with you (La7) that is when you died. if your gonna run your mouth at least make it accurate and informative, don't alter easily reviewable history to suit your delusion.
the comment of opportunistic..........well BnZing a guy turn fighting in a hurri while your riding a 38 coming down from the stratosphere.....i would call that opportunistic, wouldn't you?
as far as meeting you in the DA? why the hell should I? tell you what tough guy you wanna pet your ego try DAing someone who has spent as many hours a month playing as you have. or why don't you DA JETSOM, I'm sure he will. he loves to turn the picker into his punk. ask him next time you see him on.
i only DA someone i want to learn from. i don't DA punks who want to prove they have no life no class and no heart. your a tough guy in your cartoon airplane, but once the cartoons are over you got nothing.
I did awhile ago DA GRIZZ. unlike you he is a good guy willing to teach and not judge or try to use it for bragging purposes. i learned a few things on that night, the most important being that not all people in this game are juvenile little punks such as you.
the IQ test, now that's funny. i wouldn't want to hurt your self esteem by showing you just how stupid you are. aside from that loser boy do you understand the fact that an IQ test score isn't worth poop in the real world? is that why you spend so many hours in pretend land? cause your afraid of the real world?
well i have wasted enough of my time on talking with you. you are below me, you are the slime from my boot at the best you could ever be. so why dont you just keep your mouth on your boyfriend and off the topic of me.
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ooooo.. sooooo IN....
:noid
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this thread has certainly taken an interesting turn !
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the simple answer on how to avoid the ho shot is do not merge head to head. ever. that is for the da only.
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Guys, you can't settle this in the manner of gentlemen over the internet. And do you REALLY want to pay for plane ticket just to bloody each other noses? :devil
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BnZ i cocied to your wisdom
Anodizer I agree to disagree on our opinion of prior events. I will drop the issue between us here and now and I apologise for my rudeness in my responces to you.
<SALUTE> to you for your skills and i am sure we will meet again in the air over A.H. land.
<SALUTE> to all
FLOTSOM
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Rule 1: Always expect a HO on initial merge.
Rule 2: Never try a coalt merge...(There are limited player styles>Ranker sees easy kill>Noob sees a "here goes my cherry">Veteran player sees> :mad: hes goin for ho)..all three will put you in tower.
Rule 3: I'm assuming that the comments about your kill were in the EW arena on this one...DONT KILL A HIGH RANKED PLAYER. It cannot be done.
Rule 3 Definition: A hi ranked player is invincible. They can only be defeated by warping, ho'ng, vulching, picking, gang banging, cable pulling (whatever that is), running codes, camping, spying, etc...
Basically in short. dont concern yourself with what a "HO" shot is. if its Red-KILL IT. Its your money. Have fun :salute
Just dont HO
Legal disclaimer:
The above text is not directed towards any individual or squads, either directly or implied. Any inference of such is at the sole discretion of the reader and should not be taken as such.
The author makes no claims of validity of the accuracy of claims aforementioned in the written text prenoted.
The aforementioned text is simply an observational opinion, any party or parties that take offense to the above statements need to relax and enjoy the game that they participate in.
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FACE IT........
more vet players use this than anyone. check scores and k/d ratios. you'll find that the top scoring players either pick, bnz, or ho.(most of the time. some actually fight).
sad part is they don't need to...which is why i don't understand it.
Ahhhh, but they do need to :rofl. When they don't, they find out their score was not able to protect them.
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Rank guys don't HO, except possibly against craft with vastly inferior firepower, because it is a 50/50 proposition. They front-quarter snapshoot at every opportunity with deadly accuracy, especially against otherwise occupied bandits, but veer off if it becomes apparent the bandit has the E and the willingness to HO back effectively.
I KNOW of at least one that does.....and he is a rank player...........says he doesn;t, but i see it all the time, as do others.
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Holy toejam!
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As an update to all you pleasant and wonderful people who have been so kind as to share with me your opinions and tactics involving the HO.
well i have been trying to practice some of them as the opportunities have provided themselves.
i have managed to get shot in the face, the wings the tail and everywhere else on my cartoon airplanes. this has been with HOing without HOing while turning to avoid while climbing diving and doing every other manner of obscene acts to get around my intended victim.
what i have noticed is a much lower number of colides, and that against a player without years of experience i usually get so form of shot off, but against any longer term player i wind up in the tower without so much as a hello here's a cup of coffee!!!!!
i will continue to experiment with these varying strategies as the days pass.
<SALUTE> to all and thanx again
FLOTSOM
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i've read most of the replies here, and gathered everyones opinions. some say get over it, some say don't do it, and i think in one of the previous threads about this, there was the suggestion of turning off the hits fron head on.
i've made several replies to this particular thread already.
in my case, i think the main reasons i don't like the ho, are because i don't much care to fly 25 or more miles to the fight only to have some "skilled" :rolleyes: cartoon pilot shoot me in my cartoon face thus ending the fight in approximatly 7 seconds.
i have limited time that i can fly, and this really really kills the enjoyment. if this continually happens, where can the fun be?
the worst thing is the guys that are REALLLY good at it. you try some evasive, but in the process, you take away your own gun solution as you possibly open yourself up to his guns. then if you call him on it on open channel, he claims it wasn't a ho.
it's just becomming a very very sad state concerning things like this in the arenas.
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Late to the party as usual; I blame my SpitV for that. :lol
I will complain about a HO if:
a) It is the 1st pass.
b) I have a gun solution.
c) He gets me, I miss him. OR He misses me, I get him.
I also accept complaints if the above are true.
I do not complain if 'b' is false; 'cause that is a deflection for him.
I do not accept complaints on the 2nd conditional of 'c' when his bullets are everywhere but my PIM; 'cause that is a deflection for me. :P
Example from last night/this morning:
UP-ed the trusty SpitV, Pony & Nikki de-acking field; both cons see me and set-up to vulch. I roll w/WEP, speet 80-90, pull back, wheels up, flaps down, get level, flaps up, rudder to counter torque. At last 1/4 of runway, Pony comming down, 0-0 aspect solutions for both, nose up, @ 1.0k a .75 sec burst w/ Lazpannios, oil, fuel, & coolant leak for him, sideslip right, no hits on me; decided HO for both. Nikki comming down, 0-0 aspect solutions for both of us, nose up, @d800 a .75 sec burst with Hisookas, oil hit on him, no hits on me, he collides, i lose my vertical stabilzer (failed to make side slip left sooner). Me crash, him crash; we both HO'ed it and lost. Get a new SpitV, go kill the limping Pony in 1st pass HO 'cause he tried the same tactic again & then 4 of his C-47 flying buddies that were sitting on the ground (that-a-be-a Vulching :D ). final Tally 173rd guardian Angels:1, vonKrimm of Hellcat Fighter Group: 6. :rock
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IN :aok
I don't like HOing personally because I am almost exclusive with the Ki-84. I've had my donut handed to me too many times from a HO. Plus I love the way the 84 handles and turns when I get someone's six. You can just smell their frustration :D
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I have read again and again, in book after book of first hand accounts real life pilots taking head on shots. The fact is that head on shots are just as much a part of of Air Combat Maneuvers as being on somebodies six. This comunity need to get over it.
I have flown here for 100+ tours and during that time I have tried to stick to this phony chivalry of not firing on HO passes only to get shot down because they did not. If your opponent has his/her tracers off you have no idea you are being fired upon until you get close enough to see the muzzle flashes. At this point it is maybe too late. Also if you try to avoid a Head On pass you are giving up some angle to the enemy, which against an expert pilot maybe all the edge he needs to beat you.
The best advice i can give is the same thing a boxing referee tells you at the beginning of a match... "protect yourself at all times"
To the comunity I say ....."get over it"
Helm ...out
Your absolutley right on.
I will try to avoid them, but when I get ganged by two or more at one time, the option is there and I will take it to even the odds. Gangtards are open game and anything goes. :salute
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Hoing is getting worse in MW. Helm is correct about tracers off.... however if you fire first your conceding that the other pilot is better than you based on your description. If you hold fire and maneuver with him you'll improve your skill. If you just concede that everyone else is better than you, they will be. Maneuvering doesn't mean just turn fighting... if your not in a turn fighter get separation. The point is to outfly your opponent. If you always take the easy way out you'll never learn the limits of your ability or your plane's.
When it comes down to it anyone can Ho. But in the end, even if the other guy is dead, you conceded that he was a better cartoon pilot.
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Dropped Flotsom.....**shake hands**
Still like to DA ya all gentlemen like sometime.... :)
Now, my opinion and why I think it (about the ho):
If there is a 1v1, I see absolutely no reason to ho on the first pass.... 2 on 1, maybe... 3 on 1, definitely...
in a 1v1, if someone ho's on the first pass, I see it as opportunistic... Yes yes, real dogfighting was opportunistic as well...
But this is not real dogfighting.. I see no other reason for a 1v1 first merge ho other than that individual can use all the
kills he can get (really cares about score)... Whatever.....People play the game their own way... For some, score is very important and it
shows in the way they play... For others, it's all about the thrill of besting someone in virtual combat(what I call fun).. I do not see a ho as
besting anyone in most cases.... I tend to avoid merges now due to the ho, especially in a 38 that I believe is more susceptible to ho's than other planes due to it's size..
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Take out the Enemy in any way possible. What I object to is the Direct attempt at Collision because the opposing plane often has little damage. Most Mid-air collisions in the real world result in both aircraft going down and I wish it was that way with AHII.
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12 on 12 gun solutions exist in the real world ...and they exist in Aces High ....end of story
Helm ...out
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Anodizer if you ever want to DA, i would be happy to. for you it would be target practice for me it would be a learning expierience.
i do not mind losing to a better player, as long as it is with the understanding that you will explain your tactics so that i may learn and improve my own skills from the encounter.
<SALUTE>
FLOTSOM
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I fly online so that I can dogfight other human beings, and hopefully shoot them down. It's not the kill as much as the fight.
I can get kills all day long offline, HOing drones until the cows come home.
Kills are kills. Fights are fun.
I'm not going to waste my time ending a dogfight with a 2 second squirt in the face online, when I can do that to my heart's content offline.
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I'm not going to waste my time ending a dogfight with a 2 second squirt in the face online, when I can do that to my heart's content offline.
i know there is some stank of a porn related topic in here but i just cant seem to put my finger on it. help anyone?
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i know there is some stank of a porn related topic in here but i just cant seem to put my finger on it. help anyone?
I was thinking the same thing, but I think it might be best left to the imagination.
Actually, I really don't want to imagine that :O
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i just found this on the trainers website.
HEAD-ON SHOTS: A "head-on" is a shot when you are nose to nose with the enemy. It is considered bad form and the mark of a dweeb to take a head-on shot, especially on the merge but many people take them anyway. I guess the best line of reasoning I have heard on this is "It takes two to head-on"! For me personally, and for many others, it isn't much of a game if everybody goes straight at each other with guns blazing and whoever got the best roll of the dice from the computer (as far as hits, misses, and damage caused) wins. Do your best to avoid having to receive or give head-on shots.
Murdr says: While a front quarter shot is completely valid, when someone is intent on making a head on shot during the initial merge, it is a clear sign of an inexperienced player. The experienced player knows how to routienly avoid such shots while simultaniously gaining an angles advantage on their opponent. Hence while on player is trying to line up a head on shot, the other is already maneuvering to get on their six after the merge.
KILL STEALING: In Aces High, a damaged plane can spin helplessly to the ground after having its wing shot off in a good fight. The victor of this fight, assuming he is any good, is probably already looking for the next fight, and maybe even anticipating seeing who he killed. A kill stealer is someone who chases the tumbling, burning wreckage that was once a plane down to the ground, pumping it full of bullets, and gets a kill because he gets more hits into it before it hits the ground. This is the mark of a true dweeb who cares only for his score, not whether he is any good or not. While accidents do happen, don't shoot into planes that are already going down.
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edit
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edit
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you trying to brainwash us? use the spinning hypno disk thing works better than triple posts :p
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you trying to brainwash us? use the spinning hypno disk thing works better than triple posts :p
sorry bout the triple post guys.......my puter farted i think, and i kept hitting the post button
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i admit i read the first sentance of the second one before i realised :uhoh
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i admit i read the first sentance of the second one before i realised :uhoh
:rofl :rofl :rofl
now THAT's funny!!
i see i can still edit...gonna remove the extras now
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i just found this on the trainers website.
KILL STEALING: In Aces High, a damaged plane can spin helplessly to the ground after having its wing shot off in a good fight. The victor of this fight, assuming he is any good, is probably already looking for the next fight, and maybe even anticipating seeing who he killed. A kill stealer is someone who chases the tumbling, burning wreckage that was once a plane down to the ground, pumping it full of bullets, and gets a kill because he gets more hits into it before it hits the ground. This is the mark of a true dweeb who cares only for his score, not whether he is any good or not. While accidents do happen, don't shoot into planes that are already going down.
This I must admit is one of the most annoying aspects of this game! i find this to be a sign of a true jack-off.
sometimes you don't realize the plane is going down right away, so you nose in and pop a round or so. but within a second or two anyone should realize that the plane they are engaging is either beyond the control of the pilot (i.e. tail down spin to the ground, end over end tumble upside down flat spin ect) or damaged to the point of imminent crash.(i.e. missing wing(s) tail ect)
although if a plane, such as a zeek, is flaming but still flying the pilot who shot it should not let it go but must Finnish it off. the zeek can still fly fight and kill while burning. they light quick but burn for a long time. as a fact to this, while playing this afternoon i watched a burning zeek saddle and down two planes in quick succession before succumbing to the flames. if the zeek is left to fly away after sparking it up then its still a viable kill for who ever wants to catch it. just because you light it that doesn't make it dead, if you turn away from it it may be you it comes back to kill (yes i learned this the hard way, thanx for the lesson).
as we are all well aware, i am no expert in this game. so it takes allot of effort for me to get enough good hits on a target to bring it down. don't rob me of my due for the work invested by scum bagging kills from me.
so my view on this is simple, if it's just burning but turning its game, if it looks like its missing key parts or in an unlikely to recover from tumble or spin then leave it alone.
i think that THE MOST IRRITATING thing for a person to do is to boom into a fight that is obviously going on between two planes without a request for the help. yes yes this is the pick, but i am talking about the "friendly" pick. i have killshot myself on multiple occasions on the arse of a friendly who has taken it upon himself to jump between me and a target i am firing on from 200 or less away. you cant not see me, or the fact that i am firing on the target, but then you choose to jump yourself into my stream of fire anyways?? what kind of scumbag s*&(t is that? these are by far the lowliest of the low in killstealing dirt bags.
on a funny note to that though, one night a couple of jerk offs did this a couple times in a row to my wingman JETSOM. so for the rest of the night we made it our job in life to jump between these pilots and any plane they engaged. we wouldn't even bother to shoot the enemy plane, we would just get into the line of fire of the dirt bags.
i know childish and immature, but in defense of our actions Jetsom had called them off before they got in front of him the first time and the disregarded him and caused his subsequent killshots. then after he typed to them that that was not a kool thing to do, and that he did not need there help, they attempted this two more times almost getting him killed both times. well after that the game was on.
this does not include when someone kills themselves because they shoot a country man while hording. if there are 10 guys in a bundle chasing and firing one plane, well you get what you get.
this thread has been great guys, i thank you again
<SALUTE>
FLOTSOM
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This I must admit is one of the most annoying aspects of this game! i find this to be a sign of a true jack-off.
sometimes you don't realize the plane is going down right away, so you nose in and pop a round or so. but within a second or two anyone should realize that the plane they are engaging is either beyond the control of the pilot (i.e. tail down spin to the ground, end over end tumble upside down flat spin ect) or damaged to the point of imminent crash.(i.e. missing wing(s) tail ect)
although if a plane, such as a zeek, is flaming but still flying the pilot who shot it should not let it go but must Finnish it off. the zeek can still fly fight and kill while burning. they light quick but burn for a long time. as a fact to this, while playing this afternoon i watched a burning zeek saddle and down two planes in quick succession before succumbing to the flames. if the zeek is left to fly away after sparking it up then its still a viable kill for who ever wants to catch it. just because you light it that doesn't make it dead, if you turn away from it it may be you it comes back to kill (yes i learned this the hard way, thanx for the lesson).
as we are all well aware, i am no expert in this game. so it takes allot of effort for me to get enough good hits on a target to bring it down. don't rob me of my due for the work invested by scum bagging kills from me.
so my view on this is simple, if it's just burning but turning its game, if it looks like its missing key parts or in an unlikely to recover from tumble or spin then leave it alone.
i think that THE MOST IRRITATING thing for a person to do is to boom into a fight that is obviously going on between two planes without a request for the help. yes yes this is the pick, but i am talking about the "friendly" pick. i have killshot myself on multiple occasions on the arse of a friendly who has taken it upon himself to jump between me and a target i am firing on from 200 or less away. you cant not see me, or the fact that i am firing on the target, but then you choose to jump yourself into my stream of fire anyways?? what kind of scumbag s*&(t is that? these are by far the lowliest of the low in killstealing dirt bags.
on a funny note to that though, one night a couple of jerk offs did this a couple times in a row to my wingman JETSOM. so for the rest of the night we made it our job in life to jump between these pilots and any plane they engaged. we wouldn't even bother to shoot the enemy plane, we would just get into the line of fire of the dirt bags.
i know childish and immature, but in defense of our actions Jetsom had called them off before they got in front of him the first time and the disregarded him and caused his subsequent killshots. then after he typed to them that that was not a kool thing to do, and that he did not need there help, they attempted this two more times almost getting him killed both times. well after that the game was on.
this does not include when someone kills themselves because they shoot a country man while hording. if there are 10 guys in a bundle chasing and firing one plane, well you get what you get.
this thread has been great guys, i thank you again
<SALUTE>
FLOTSOM
well, i found that stuff on the trsainers page, and thought it could go in with this, as i've seen a lot of guys follow 1/2 of an airplane to the deck pumping it full of virtual lead.
<<S>>
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FELON (sounds more appropriate than FLOTSOM), you are inferior for several reasons....
1. You're a felon, first and foremost...
2. You cannot spell or punctuate correctly...
3. You lie uncontrollably just as most criminals of your stature do..
4. Everyone, including your friends, know your an opportunistic dweeb who couldn't get on anyone's 6 in any instance... :)
5. You fly planes with 3 cannons or more (ho-ing in a plane without cannons just isn't economical is it :) )
6. You will not meet me in the DA so I can make a fool of you (since I know it's you and know you'll do nothing but ho)..
FELON, I urge you to meet me in the DA at a time of your choosing... We will have a spelling bee, an IQ test, and a duel..
All of which you will lose... :)
(http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/7739/0/Star_Wars_FAIL.ashx)
what exactly does being a felon have to do with flying virtual planes?
so I will take you up on that DA,offer, heck we don't need to go to DA I will kill ya just as easily in MA,
you run your mouth, to someone who does not have the time and experience to put up a great fight, to make your self feel all big and bad,
trust me you are not all that.
I have known FLOTSOM since i was 12 years old, he is the only person in the world i trust. and I would put my life on the line for him any day.
I am kindly urging you to back off, this is a game and we are sapposed to have fun, but when someone such as yourself comes along and wont stop talking trash its not all that cool, nether of us would report you, but I will hunt you down, and make your AH life miserable i enjoy jumping sides, plus with a squaddie on your side I will know where you are at every moment, the only safe place to be for you, will be the tower.
I hope you understand what I'm saying...
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what exactly does being a felon have to do with flying virtual planes?
so I will take you up on that DA,offer, heck we don't need to go to DA I will kill ya just as easily in MA,
you run your mouth, to someone who does not have the time and experience to put up a great fight, to make your self feel all big and bad,
trust me you are not all that.
I have known FLOTSOM since i was 12 years old, he is the only person in the world i trust. and I would put my life on the line for him any day.
I am kindly urging you to back off, this is a game and we are sapposed to have fun, but when someone such as yourself comes along and wont stop talking trash its not all that cool, nether of us would report you, but I will hunt you down, and make your AH life miserable i enjoy jumping sides, plus with a squaddie on your side I will know where you are at every moment, the only safe place to be for you, will be the tower.
I hope you understand what I'm saying...
sooo.....the impressions i get from reading some of his posts are right then?
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sooo.....the impressions i get from reading some of his posts are right then?
well i guess that depends on those impression :D
i have my good and my bad qualities and i can only hope that i find the strength every day to balance the two sides and find some peace and harmony in my life.
i hope to always be the person you can trust to give to you an honest opinion, whether you like it or not. i hope to be the kind of person that can learn from his mistakes and then pass that knowledge on to some one less informed or experienced than i in an attempt to teach them before they suffer the pains of failure. these are the simplest of my hopes of who i am, unfortunately these tend to be off set by a bad attitude, an abundance of pessimism and a lack of sympathy towards my fellow man.
Me and Jetsom have been friends long enough to know that only a fool believes their friend is perfect, and if he thought i was out of line he would more than happily tell me so. (i think he kinda likes reminding me that I'm a dumbarse from time to time) He is my Best Friend, my brother, his family is my family, our friendship transends blood. so forgive him if he gets protective, even in this wonderfully dysfunctional land of make believe! You always stand by those that matter.
So <SALUTE> to all
FLOTSOM
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well i guess that depends on those impression :D
i have my good and my bad qualities and i can only hope that i find the strength every day to balance the two sides and find some peace and harmony in my life.
i hope to always be the person you can trust to give to you an honest opinion, whether you like it or not. i hope to be the kind of person that can learn from his mistakes and then pass that knowledge on to some one less informed or experienced than i in an attempt to teach them before they suffer the pains of failure. these are the simplest of my hopes of who i am, unfortunately these tend to be off set by a bad attitude, an abundance of pessimism and a lack of sympathy towards my fellow man.
Me and Jetsom have been friends long enough to know that only a fool believes their friend is perfect, and if he thought i was out of line he would more than happily tell me so. (i think he kinda likes reminding me that I'm a dumbarse from time to time) He is my Best Friend, my brother, his family is my family, our friendship transends blood. so forgive him if he gets protective, even in this wonderfully dysfunctional land of make believe! You always stand by those that matter.
So <SALUTE> to all
FLOTSOM
well, i was making that statement on the post you put up about when you did time. from the way you described it, you most probably could've gotten out of it, but chose to take your lumps, and learn from it. THAT deserves respect, no matter who you are.
we all have our good and bad sides, and i expect perfection from no one except myself(and rather strangley, i never manage it either :D).
i also like honest answers too......regardless if i like it or not. i frigin HATE being lied to. :D
soo....i meant my previous post in a good way sir.
<<S>>
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well, i was making that statement on the post you put up about when you did time. from the way you described it, you most probably could've gotten out of it, but chose to take your lumps, and learn from it. THAT deserves respect, no matter who you are.
we all have our good and bad sides, and i expect perfection from no one except myself(and rather strangley, i never manage it either :D).
i also like honest answers too......regardless if i like it or not. i frigin HATE being lied to. :D
soo....i meant my previous post in a good way sir.
<<S>>
as a matter of fact he went to the bighouse for what I did, we both went.
he is the most stand up guy i know.
and when he says JETSOM that is me, but for those that arnt in the know
you can find me in the MA as MORTIS, or if you hav been killed by MORTIS, and are wondering who this noob is well its me hehe.
although i will be back as JETSOM very soon.
oh and FLOTS its "JETSOM and I"
dummarse
<S> brother
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oh and FLOTS its "JETSOM and I"
dummarse
<S> brother
well <SSSSS> to you as well brother!
just as a foot note "mister im gonna pretend im an english major", its spelled DUM"B"ARSE! ya dumbarse!!!!!
do you press some other number on phone??? i take it press one wasnt your first choice?
<S>
FLOTSOM
p.s. remember your wife wont let you beat me up :rofl :rofl :rofl
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well <SSSSS> to you as well brother!
just as a foot note "mister im gonna pretend im an english major", its spelled DUM"B"ARSE! ya dumbarse!!!!!
do you press some other number on phone??? i take it press one wasnt your first choice?
<S>
FLOTSOM
p.s. remember your wife wont let you beat me up :rofl :rofl :rofl
:rofl :rofl:rofl
sux im not gonna fly tonight, been a crazy day at the shop and i am working on 3 hrs sleep now.
hopefully ill see ya in the air tomorrow.
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well <SSSSS> to you as well brother!
just as a foot note "mister im gonna pretend im an english major", its spelled DUM"B"ARSE! ya dumbarse!!!!!
do you press some other number on phone??? i take it press one wasnt your first choice?
<S>
FLOTSOM
p.s. remember your wife wont let you beat me up :rofl :rofl :rofl
don't forget..she has to go to sleep sometime. what she doesn't know could hurt you :D :rofl
sorta kinda
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oh no,
he knows i will soooooooo rat him out once she wakes up!!!!!!! :devil and he will get it :furious :furious :furious
besides....he has 6 wonderfully crazy kids.......i dont think she ever sleeps!!!!!!!!!! :rock
<SALUTE> STACY :salute
FLOTSOM
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oh no,
he knows i will soooooooo rat him out once she wakes up!!!!!!! :devil and he will get it :furious :furious :furious
besides....he has 6 wonderfully crazy kids.......i dont think she ever sleeps!!!!!!!!!! :rock
<SALUTE> STACY :salute
FLOTSOM
wow!!
is he starting his own clan or something? :rofl :aok :D
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wow!!
is he starting his own clan or something? :rofl :aok :D
well god said "Go forth and populate the Earth"..........Jetsom took it as a personal mission and is doing his best to achieve it! :aok
FLOTSOM
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well god said "Go forth and populate the Earth"..........Jetsom took it as a personal mission and is doing his best to achieve it! :aok
FLOTSOM
you know it brother!!!
i am on a mission from GOD
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you know it brother!!!
i am on a mission from GOD
You a catholic priest by any chance? :O
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You a catholic priest by any chance? :O
lol nope
but I am a son of Yahaveh