I know this is gonna go badly

[SEraider]

Not true.  I actually got someone batter than me to try this theory in the DA.  It turns out, a small advantage goes to the guy pursuing the HO shot at the merge.  You guys confuse beating a nube with the hisHO giving you the advantage.

I am available to try any time if you want to see for yourself

Why is that Ded? Is it because the "vet" pursuing the HO is already trying to establish an angle on you?  Enlighten me oh grandmaster. 

[BnZ]

Not true.  I actually got someone batter than me to try this theory in the DA.  It turns out, a small advantage goes to the guy pursuing the HO shot at the merge.  You guys confuse beating a nube with the hisHO giving you the advantage.

I am available to try any time if you want to see for yourself

So what is the best option to neutralize the HO threat and best set yourself up post-merge when you don't want to chance mutually assured destruction?

[FireDragon]

Not true.  I actually got someone batter than me to try this theory in the DA.  It turns out, a small advantage goes to the guy pursuing the HO shot at the merge.  You guys confuse beating a nube with the hisHO giving you the advantage.

I am available to try any time if you want to see for yourself

Not really...... Your not really going for the HO lets be honest about it... YOU want it to appear that you are... Because a real HO would be shooting not turning...... In your senario your turning not shooting....

[dedalos]

Not really...... Your not really going for the HO lets be honest about it... YOU want it to appear that you are... Because a real HO would be shooting not turning...... In your senario your turning not shooting....

Wrong on the first and right on the second.  I tried it with bighorn in the DA.  He knew I was going to try and get a HO shot and he had to try to avoid it.  My goal was ti hit him at the merge and his to avoid and get an advantage on me.  I think what happens in the process is by him trying to avoid and me pushing for the shot, I end up with an unintentional lead turn.  He is turning to but he is turning away from me while I am turning inside him.  Even though those were very small turns, I did end up with a small advantage after the merge.  He is also busy trying to avoid my bullets so that takes him away from what ever merge he would like to use.  All this of course, assumes that the hoer knows what he is doing and he is not going to just fly straight.  So, yes, I was going to try and hit him HO but that was not the only plan.  The plan was to generate an advantage from it. Was not faking the HO because had he not goten out of the way, I would have driven my plane into him.

[dedalos]

Not really...... Your not really going for the HO lets be honest about it... YOU want it to appear that you are... Because a real HO would be shooting not turning...... In your senario your turning not shooting....

Maybe i did not phrase it right.  I opened fire at 1K and held the trigger down until we passed eachother

[toonces3]

Wrong on the first and right on the second.  I tried it with bighorn in the DA.  He knew I was going to try and get a HO shot and he had to try to avoid it.  My goal was ti hit him at the merge and his to avoid and get an advantage on me.  I think what happens in the process is by him trying to avoid and me pushing for the shot, I end up with an unintentional lead turn.  He is turning to but he is turning away from me while I am turning inside him.  Even though those were very small turns, I did end up with a small advantage after the merge.  He is also busy trying to avoid my bullets so that takes him away from what ever merge he would like to use.  All this of course, assumes that the hoer knows what he is doing and he is not going to just fly straight.  So, yes, I was going to try and hit him HO but that was not the only plan.  The plan was to generate an advantage from it. Was not faking the HO because had he not goten out of the way, I would have driven my plane into him.

I've been trying to figure out how to explain that for a while.  Everytime I read, "I love it when someone goes for the HO because then I can maneuver to kill him that much faster..." I think of your explanation above, and why the going for the HO gives the other guy the turning advantage just doesn't seem intuitively right.

I'm sure there's more to it though.

[dedalos]

So what is the best option to neutralize the HO threat and best set yourself up post-merge when you don't want to chance mutually assured destruction?

Not sure that you could do both.  You just have to hope that you are a better pilot than the him.  I don;t know if this will make any sense but will try:  Given close pilot skills (probably more true as skill levels rise) the HOer does get a small advantage.  If there is a big gap in the skill level, if the hoer is they guy with the less skills, he will die faster.  I think that is because he will miss and then he is lost not knowing what do to.  A skilled HOer is a different animal than a nube.  Lookat it this way, if we come in at a merge at a slight angle, I could open fire at 1K out and shoot to your left hoping that that makes you break a little to the right.  So, I already kind of know your first move.  That is an advanatage right there.

Raider, I hope I answered your question in these posts

[dedalos]

I've been trying to figure out how to explain that for a while.  Everytime I read, "I love it when someone goes for the HO because then I can maneuver to kill him that much faster..." I think of your explanation above, and why the going for the HO gives the other guy the turning advantage just doesn't seem intuitively right.

I'm sure there's more to it though.

Nothing works better than trying it.  Most people in the BBS talk about how easy they will kill a LALA or a SPIT16 or a HOer bla bla bla.  They usually die in a few seconds when you fight them. 

Ill try to do a diagram and post it.  The simple way to look at it is: you turn first at the merge, you will most likely die.  To avoid a HO, you have to turn.

[FireDragon]

I did not intend to make that sound personal...Im not talking about you in the scenario you know what your doing... I was talking about  a newer player.... They are shooting when they should be turning..That gets them killed quickly... a new player has no idea what his next move should be..... You on the other hand have already set something up.

I assume you were flying same plane co e ect..


The differance is your flying pro.active  and newer player is player is flying re.active.....

[FireDragon]

Nothing works better than trying it.  Most people in the BBS talk about how easy they will kill a LALA or a SPIT16 or a HOer bla bla bla.  They usually die in a few seconds when you fight them. 

Ill try to do a diagram and post it.  The simple way to look at it is: you turn first at the merge, you will most likely die.  To avoid a HO, you have to turn.

Its easier to understand if you say... I think it has more to do with who controls the fight YOu have succesfully used the HO to ge the other player to fly re actively... while you mantain control of the fight because your flying pro active.....

I can think of initial merges where i turn first as long as it getts the other guy to re.act i have the advantage.... So i think its easier to undestand by saying that  it has to do more with turning at the right time ,,, right spot   .....not who turns first or second.  because were all flying at differant speeds e states ect....

[ScatterFire]

  GUILTY AS CHARGED

Me too, my aim generally sucks which is why I am normally in a ground gun....

But at the same time, if I'm trying to get a hit in and someone turns to point straight at me who is actually doing the HOing?  Both parties are equally as guilty, otherwise both parties wouldn't be able to shoot.

Response to the person:  Pot, meet Kettle

[CAP1]

Not really...... Your not really going for the HO lets be honest about it... YOU want it to appear that you are... Because a real HO would be shooting not turning...... In your senario your turning not shooting....

FACE IT........
more vet players use this than anyone. check scores and k/d ratios. you'll find that the top scoring players either pick, bnz, or ho.(most of the time. some actually fight).
 sad part is they don't need to...which is why i don't understand it.

[Anaxogoras]

  Cap1.  Name a player in this game who doesn't pick.  If such a person existed, no one would want them in their squad.

[CAP1]

Cap1.  Name a player in this game who doesn't pick.  If such a person existed, no one would want them in their squad.

i know....we all do it at one time or another. i was referencing those that pick almost exclusivly....if no pick, then ho.......you know what i mean......

[BnZ]

i know....we all do it at one time or another. i was referencing those that pick almost exclusivly....if no pick, then ho.......you know what i mean......

Rank guys don't HO, except possibly against craft with vastly inferior firepower, because it is a 50/50 proposition. They front-quarter snapshoot at every opportunity with deadly accuracy, especially against otherwise occupied bandits, but veer off if it becomes apparent the bandit has the E and the willingness to HO back effectively.