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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: sluggish on October 05, 2008, 09:16:15 AM

Title: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: sluggish on October 05, 2008, 09:16:15 AM
Do away with the payroll tax.  Make everyone pay their taxes out of pocket quarterly.  We have become a "net pay" society.  To the point where most just give a passing glance at the FICA, state and SS deductions.  Of course, the reason those automatic deductions are there is to prevent the all-out revolt and refusal to pay that would happen if the masses had to pay their taxes out of pocket.

We are well domesticated sheep that don't even need to be led to the slaughter; we go there willingly.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Wayout on October 05, 2008, 09:21:15 AM
Go one step further.  Make final yearly taxes due October 31.  There is a reason tax day is 6 months before/after election day. 
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: wrag on October 05, 2008, 09:30:01 AM
This is NOT a new idea!  Been said many times before but try and get the politicians to agree to it.

And of course you have the liberal democrats that are actually socialist and they want you and everyone else to give all your money to the state so THEY can dole it out and have everyone worship the state (and them) that will NEVER vote for such a thing!
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: storch on October 05, 2008, 09:56:12 AM
or at least compensate the employer/tax collector for the myraid of nonsense he must go through to currently collect the tax for the gubmint for free.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Gunthr on October 05, 2008, 09:59:57 AM
Quote
To the point where most just give a passing glance at the FICA, state and SS deductions.

if you think wage earners don't want to look at the fine print on the stubbs now, wait until they add the national health care deduction.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: lasersailor184 on October 05, 2008, 11:04:57 AM
You guys are thinking too small.




Any change to the Tax Code or Budget Spending by ANY politician triggers that politician's re-election date to be held 2 weeks post a yes or no vote.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Heater on October 05, 2008, 11:11:42 AM
The People is the US have it easy for Taxes....
Here is mine From last month

Gross Pay : €8611,76
Net Pay: €4552,15

€ 650 of the witholding is for Retirement and health Insurance:

The rest is TAX!!!!
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Hangtime on October 05, 2008, 11:14:31 AM
Yah.. but weed is cheap and women are... women.

;)

Sup, bud!?
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: storch on October 05, 2008, 11:22:38 AM
The People is the US have it easy for Taxes....
Here is mine From last month

Gross Pay : €8611,76
Net Pay: €4552,15

€ 650 of the witholding is for Retirement and health Insurance:

The rest is TAX!!!!

unbelievable.  that is what obama would have us become
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: lazs2 on October 05, 2008, 11:58:16 AM
yet....except for having some of the worst suicide rates in the world..  poll after poll has shown that these are the "happiest" people on the planet.   That is what the democrats have in store for us.

lazs
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Tango on October 05, 2008, 12:31:33 PM
I'm all for a National sales tax. That should be the ONLY tax that the government should get. It would force them to keep the economy going good or they would see less money.

Of course the only way it would work is make it where the people vote on increases in the sales tax as well. It would give the power back to the people.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: sluggish on October 05, 2008, 06:34:44 PM
The People is the US have it easy for Taxes....
Here is mine From last month

Gross Pay : €8611,76
Net Pay: €4552,15

€ 650 of the witholding is for Retirement and health Insurance:

The rest is TAX!!!!


I thought you were all happy socialists...
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: RedTop on October 05, 2008, 06:38:06 PM
unbelievable.  that is what obama would have us become

Not "Would" become..... Will become....
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Sandman on October 05, 2008, 07:06:04 PM
I'm all for a National sales tax. That should be the ONLY tax that the government should get. It would force them to keep the economy going good or they would see less money.

Of course the only way it would work is make it where the people vote on increases in the sales tax as well. It would give the power back to the people.

It sounds good and all... but then when the legislators talk numbers, they say things like 15-20%. Seems a bit high to me, especially while living in a state where some cities and counties charge over 8% already.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: SPutz on October 05, 2008, 07:44:12 PM
Well the current sales Tax in Europe (Euro Zone) is 19% on most thing's and 3-6% on food.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: RedTop on October 05, 2008, 07:56:15 PM
It sounds good and all... but then when the legislators talk numbers, they say things like 15-20%. Seems a bit high to me, especially while living in a state where some cities and counties charge over 8% already.

I agree with you again.......as the travelocity knome says..."Am I gong to die?" :uhoh :lol
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Hangtime on October 05, 2008, 07:59:25 PM
yes.

that; you can take to the bank.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: RedTop on October 05, 2008, 08:01:32 PM
yes.

that; you can take to the bank.

Nope...Im not....just aint gonna do it...nope nope nope...
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 05, 2008, 08:03:34 PM
Do away with the payroll tax.  Make everyone pay their taxes out of pocket quarterly.  We have become a "net pay" society.  To the point where most just give a passing glance at the FICA, state and SS deductions.  Of course, the reason those automatic deductions are there is to prevent the all-out revolt and refusal to pay that would happen if the masses had to pay their taxes out of pocket.

We are well domesticated sheep that don't even need to be led to the slaughter; we go there willingly.
+1
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Hangtime on October 05, 2008, 08:05:28 PM
Nope...Im not....just aint gonna do it...nope nope nope...

lol. actuaries from the second most despicable corporate entities on the planet will dispute that in detail.

via the life insurance premium rates vs age table.

Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: sluggish on October 05, 2008, 08:20:13 PM
+1

+2
Is the plane in your avatar out-turning and pulling away from me or is it turning into me for the solution?
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Yeager on October 05, 2008, 10:36:04 PM
Get the maverick in there and I think you will see this sort if thing, dontcha know (wink).
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: texasmom on October 05, 2008, 10:45:18 PM
Go one step further.  Make final yearly taxes due October 31.  There is a reason tax day is 6 months before/after election day. 

Nice idea  :aok
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Getback on October 05, 2008, 11:20:39 PM
The People is the US have it easy for Taxes....
Here is mine From last month

Gross Pay : €8611,76
Net Pay: €4552,15

€ 650 of the witholding is for Retirement and health Insurance:

The rest is TAX!!!!


Yeah, but in the Netherlands don't they have like for every 1 person working 2 receive complete benefits.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: drdeathx on October 06, 2008, 04:43:20 AM
Its a users tax. This would eliminate people getting paid cash and not reporting income. The rich would pay more cause they buy more. The middle class would pay middle taxes becuase... They are middle income. The less fortunate would pay the least taxes... By the way whats the avg pay of a congressman or senator??? You think they would actually go for this. Just imagine ... the irs would have less employees or re direct them to audit businesses. OOOPs, I bet most comgressmen and senetors (republicans) get most donations from businesses and are involved with some.. Again... Why would they vote for this... Its an endless cycle.


Great idea, old idea and most probably useless cause of our politicians.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Heater on October 06, 2008, 06:05:39 AM
Yeah, but in the Netherlands don't they have like for every 1 person working 2 receive complete benefits.
Getback,

Not any more, right now the un-employment is around 3% I believe, and the "free ride" has been reduce a lot (still there) but not as bad as it was...as far as I am concerned they can do away with it 100%! don't get me wrong i.e. the people that can not work due to disability etc... ok... but the for those can can work but do not want to, then sorry no work, no money!!!
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: bongaroo on October 06, 2008, 07:59:53 AM
No income tax you say?

http://www.fairtax.org (http://www.fairtax.org)

Write your reps to support it! 
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Shane on October 06, 2008, 08:23:33 AM
This is NOT a new idea!  Been said many times before but try and get the politicians to agree to it.

And of course you have the conservative republicans that are actually facist and they want you and everyone else to give all your money to the state so THEY can dole it out and have everyone worship the state (and them) that will NEVER vote for such a thing!

fixed.

 :noid
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Eagler on October 06, 2008, 07:26:36 PM
unbelievable.  that is what obama would have us become

only if they legalize soma er pot so we are all so stoned we just don't care ...

think we are headed for a combination brave new world and idiocracy society, if the socialist wins in nov, we'll be there in less than 4 years...
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Toad on October 06, 2008, 08:12:31 PM
I would have thought this would qualify as a political thread.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Tango on October 06, 2008, 08:18:18 PM
I was wondering about that as well, Toad.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Hangtime on October 06, 2008, 08:41:50 PM
(http://www.techspot.com/gallery/data/504/16cat.jpg)

It's dead, Jim. Free.. but dead.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: sluggish on October 06, 2008, 08:47:56 PM
I would have thought this would qualify as a political thread.

He only locked the threads on page one.  Apparently they've all gone home.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: drdeathx on October 07, 2008, 01:23:56 AM
Heater the unemployment rate is 6.1%
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Heater on October 07, 2008, 04:01:19 AM
Heater the unemployment rate is 6.1%

Correct...Just went back and re-read it

Cheers
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Trell on October 07, 2008, 07:54:48 AM
Not a big fan of the fair tax,  I believe it is anything but fair
A sales tax only tax will hurt the poor and middle classes the most,   They spend a larger amount of their income because they make less. So it would be a much larger % of their income going to taxes.  I believe in a strait income tax on anyone making over 35k a year.  The tax should include everything including capital gains. 
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: bongaroo on October 07, 2008, 08:50:18 AM
People with more money spend more money firstly.

Second: read about the tax.  Everyone gets a refund up to the poverty level.  It's much more progressive than our current system.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Torque on October 07, 2008, 11:01:41 AM
The People is the US have it easy for Taxes....
Here is mine From last month

Gross Pay : €8611,76
Net Pay: €4552,15

€ 650 of the witholding is for Retirement and health Insurance:

The rest is TAX!!!!


they have... well had... a tax deferment program.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Fangio on October 07, 2008, 01:02:51 PM
Not a big fan of the fair tax,  I believe it is anything but fair
A sales tax only tax will hurt the poor and middle classes the most,   They spend a larger amount of their income because they make less. So it would be a much larger % of their income going to taxes.  I believe in a strait income tax on anyone making over 35k a year.  The tax should include everything including capital gains. 



Under the FairTax plan,  NOBODY pays ANY tax on the first $30K of income.   The FairTax includes a "pre-bate"....  basically a rebate that would PAY everyone back for the taxes paid at the purchase for items up to the $30K income mark. So anyone earning under $30K will pay ZERO taxes.

The fact is that under the FairTax the poor people your concerned about would in reality pay far LESS taxes.

Capital Gains taxes DO NOT increase Govt. tax revenues.  This has been proven repeatedly. The higher the capital gains tax rate, the less economic activity will take place as investors choose not to liquidate assets and re-invest in order to avoid the tax penalties.

I DO agree that a single flat tax rate would be better than what we have now. I have never understood how a democratic system can be expected to function properly when all citizens have the same single vote but the majority can gang up on the minority and force them to pay all of the taxes while the majority in fact pays little to no taxes. The top 50% of income earners in the US pay over 97% of the taxes. THAT is not fair.



Fang
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Nwbie on October 07, 2008, 01:19:30 PM
The top 50% pay the most in percentage on Federal taxes
but if taken into consideration all taxes - we already have a flat tax situation
see chart
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/01/20/business/21DOUBLE.chart.jpg

Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Casca on October 07, 2008, 04:38:11 PM
Do away with the payroll tax.  Make everyone pay their taxes out of pocket quarterly.  We have become a "net pay" society.  To the point where most just give a passing glance at the FICA, state and SS deductions.  Of course, the reason those automatic deductions are there is to prevent the all-out revolt and refusal to pay that would happen if the masses had to pay their taxes out of pocket.

We are well domesticated sheep that don't even need to be led to the slaughter; we go there willingly.

You are right and I would like to see it happen.  I get paid once a year and pay taxes in one lump sum including 14 plus percent FICA.  Supposed to file quarterly but since I only get paid once a year it chaps my a** to pay taxes on money I haven't made yet so I pay the penalty.  My marginal rate on a modest income is right at 40%.  Taxes are greater than all my other expenses combined and I get to see them go out on one check in April.  If everyone in the country had to write that check there would be massive shortfalls followed by a revolt.

Everyone had to do this until WWII when withholding was introduced.  It was the brainchild of a Macy's executive that realized that layaway was a popular way of purchasing big ticket items and thought it would translate well to the tax system.  It was sold by the Roosevelt admistration as a "convenience" to the taxpayer.
Title: Re: An excellent way to open the eyes of Americans
Post by: Eagler on October 07, 2008, 04:41:02 PM
redistribution of wealth will be the tax plan 2009 - 2012  if obamamans kool aid does the trick

and maybe beyond if the country lives through the 1st four years of it ... I don't think it would