Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Widewing on November 03, 2008, 06:50:58 PM
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I was helping to beat back a major GV raid. I was up an A-20 and had been dodging P-51s for a few minutes. I was missing an aileron courtesy of Wirblewind. While I was working over a Panzer in the town, a P-51D comes in and makes a rather badly managed attack. This results in a classic overshoot and the resulting consequences. A-20s are tough birds and you won't do much harm to them scattering just a few hits.
http://home.att.net/~historyworld/Classic-Overshoot.ahf (http://home.att.net/~historyworld/Classic-Overshoot.ahf)
My regards,
Widewing
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I love shooting at a plane after the tail comes off there is a moment when it flips over and the conopy is right begging to get shot... :devil
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I love the moment when they realize whats happening... :devil
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DOH! :uhoh
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I love the moment when they realize whats happening... :devil
99% of the time they're in the tower going... :huh
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That F3 View sure comes in handy... :rolleyes:
<S>...-Gixer
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(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/cheater.jpg)Tell me it ain't so!
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Well played, sir! :salute
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That F3 View sure comes in handy... :rolleyes:
<S>...-Gixer
You should know, you used it enough in our (ahem, cough) "duel".....
Not a problem though, the option is there, I expect it to be used. I also expect, however, that you not be hypocritical about it.
I always use F3 to track ground targets, or to just scan around. In an A-20 you are completely blind to the rear. Heck, I can even get off a halfway accurate snap shot in F3.
My regards,
Widewing
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You should know, you used it enough in our (ahem, cough) "duel".....
My regards,
Widewing
When on earth did I ever use F3 view in a duel? I only ever fly fighters not bombers. Haven't been in a buff since before AH2.
Yes of course you only use it to track GVs how silly of me to think otherwise.
<S>...-Gixer
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Wow, bit whiny aren't we.
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First hits from outside view too...
You are a much better shot than me sir. :salute
But...after seeing how many times you shot the P-51...I got to ask...after you shoot a deer do you cut its throat AND knock it in the head with a hammer, just to make sure it ain't playing possum? :devil
I was helping to beat back a major GV raid. I was up an A-20 and had been dodging P-51s for a few minutes. I was missing an aileron courtesy of Wirblewind. While I was working over a Panzer in the town, a P-51D comes in and makes a rather badly managed attack. This results in a classic overshoot and the resulting consequences. A-20s are tough birds and you won't do much harm to them scattering just a few hits.
http://home.att.net/~historyworld/Classic-Overshoot.ahf (http://home.att.net/~historyworld/Classic-Overshoot.ahf)
My regards,
Widewing
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Do you mean ALT-F3 or what ever it is to quit?? :rofl
If you think I'd be worried about you in the MA let alone the DA then your ego is getting ahead of you by a long margin.
What ever happend in DA is one thing, which no one gives a toss about anyway. But having F3 mapped to your joystick in the MA is another matter... Oh of course only for GVs. :lol
<S>...-Gixer
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First hits from outside view too...
You are a much better shot than me sir. :salute
But...after seeing how many times you shot the P-51...I got to ask...after you shoot a deer do you cut its throat AND knock it in the head with a hammer, just to make sure it ain't playing possum? :devil
Sometimes in this game I want people dead all the way. NO chuting out or ditching...Straight to the tower wit cha... even if i have to waste a bit of extra ammo putting you there :devil
Maybe that was the case with Widewings P51
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IT does not matter in the DA ,but it does in th MA............... :rolleyes:
Uhhhhh.......I almost forgot to sign my post :devil <S> F-i-r-e-D-r-g-n
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Hmm... Gixer in a pissing match vs. Widewing.
Place your bets, gents. :D
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When on earth did I ever use F3 view in a duel? I only ever fly fighters not bombers. Haven't been in a buff since before AH2.
Yes of course you only use it to track GVs how silly of me to think otherwise.
<S>...-Gixer
I can post the film... Suit yourself.
My regards,
Widewing
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Do you mean ALT-F3 or what ever it is to quit?? :rofl
If you think I'd be worried about you in the MA let alone the DA then your ego is getting ahead of you by a long margin.
What ever happend in DA is one thing, which no one gives a toss about anyway. But having F3 mapped to your joystick in the MA is another matter... Oh of course only for GVs. :lol
<S>...-Gixer
Wow, someone has self-esteem issues.
It's like if you say it enough, you'll convince yourself... Better keep repeating it.
My regards,
Widewing
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Hmm... Gixer in a pissing match vs. Widewing.
Place your bets, gents. :D
Not if you want to keep your money. Besides, if I were to duel Gixer (he won't duel anyway), I'd have to stipulate 25% fuel or chase him around the arena for an hour....
My regards,
Widewing
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I love when that happens :salute
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Widewing,
I'm not repeating myself again over a thread and episode that was months ago, if you like link the old thread and post the film then do it, and if you post the film post it from the start and post it in a new thread so it isn't lost in this one.. But remember the challenge you gave out was a open one no communication was ever given prior about DA rules especially one with reduced range of 1.5k.
It is hilarious that you think I used F3 in the DA, and hilarious that I would use it in a Yak out of all planes in the set. What on earth advantage would I gain from using F3 in a Yak when it is the only plane in the game that has a better view looking backwards then forwards?
As for the "he won't duel" that's also ridiculous, no I won't in the DA under your long list of rules but if you want to again in the MA with no rules I will any time. Like I do against many others who specifically go out looking for duels against me. If you want to do the same, do so and fly what ever you want. You can post those films as well.
I know you like to think of the DA as your personal sandpit but it doesn't interest me and never has.
Now F3 in the MA for buffs is one of the longest going cheats that's ever been in AH, using F3 for gunning instead of dropping into turrets, but now seeing it being used in the A20 is something else. IMHO the F3 view should of been dumped long ago.
While I respect the information,training and time you put towards this community I'm not some two month newbie or one of your groupies, if your going to make claims about me then go for it. But one of Timid and "he won't duel" won't stick.
And thanks for the new sig.
<S>...-Gixer
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double post..
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I use to the F3 view in an A20. Can't shoot with it though. Since I'm usually outnumbered, (FH down and I feel like upping into the fight, A20!) I don't feel bad about it in the slightest.
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Dueling Rules were brought up in another thread, and after I asked about it, it was made explicitly known to me that the rules are intended for same-aircraft matchups. Otherwise, the 1.5k distance rule drastically handicaps the aircraft with higher wingloading.
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I was helping to beat back a major GV raid. I was up an A-20 and had been dodging P-51s for a few minutes. I was missing an aileron courtesy of Wirblewind. While I was working over a Panzer in the town, a P-51D comes in and makes a rather badly managed attack. This results in a classic overshoot and the resulting consequences. A-20s are tough birds and you won't do much harm to them scattering just a few hits.
http://home.att.net/~historyworld/Classic-Overshoot.ahf (http://home.att.net/~historyworld/Classic-Overshoot.ahf)
My regards,
Widewing
The link is not working. I'm getting an error message.
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2.5K is the current standard separation rule to my knowledge. If that has supposedly changed, I need a link :)
As for the "he won't duel" that's also ridiculous, no I won't in the DA under your long list of rules but if you want to again in the MA with no rules I will any time.
There have always been dueling rules, whether it was a couple of pilots in a mock dogfight out over the desert in the 1930's, or cartoon pilots flying Air Warrior in 1990. Actually the majority of standard dueling rules are the same as they were before AH even existed, though the separation one is more recent. A duel is supposed to be an arranged fight that in principal is structured to start with the opponents on equal footing, or with an agreed to handicap.
By definition you refuse to duel, because you show a complete lack of respect for the community standards on dueling that have evolved over the last 20 years, and have no wish to initiate a fight in an "all things being equal" setting. So I do not find the "he won't duel" asertion ridiculous at all.
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Not if you want to keep your money. Besides, if I were to duel Gixer (he won't duel anyway), I'd have to stipulate 25% fuel or chase him around the arena for an hour....
My regards,
Widewing
:rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
I'm always amazed at the confusion between the typical run, twitch, flop, shoot yak driver and the concept of "ACM". The Yak is a tremendous plane and very formidable when well handled...but basically is flown in "drive by" mode almost all the time (with a few notable exceptions). As for the thought of F3 mode being a help in the A-20 in an air to air role...hardly. In fact I've found it gets you killed in a fight more often then not. I never use F3 in a dogfight...it messes up my timing and actually degrades my SA while giving away angles. A good pilot almost never "loses sight"...even when he can't actually see you. In the 3/10ths of a second your out of view I'm flying to where "your going" or where I think you'll vector to...if you dont reappear then i'm aggresively reorienting the lift vector anyway. Messing around looking for a con in F3 just gets you killed.
I do use it when being chased or when I need to refresh my overall SA during a fight where the actual con being engaged isnt a threat. Normally I use F3 when the bogie is in sight in front of me...never when he's "behind" me.
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I dont see why duel rules are needed simply because we are all adults and dont need regulations to set everything from alt down to fuel loading. It is common sense that two would merge at a relative co alt co E engagement.
Now if i get messaged in MA from someone I know at higher alt and E I will still say in.
Its just boils down to common sense and show a little respect I've never seen the need to leave the MA for duels and then lay down a list of rules. Rules are for training ops.
DA & TA is for training if someone wants a match up just message me in the MA.
<S>...-Gixer
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I dont see why duel rules are needed simply because we are all adults and dont need regulations to set everything from alt down to fuel loading. It is common sense that two would merge at a relative co alt co E engagement.
Now if i get messaged in MA from someone I know at higher alt and E I will still say in.
Its just boils down to common sense and show a little respect I've never seen the need to leave the MA for duels and then lay down a list of rules. Rules are for training ops.
DA & TA is for training if someone wants a match up just message me in the MA.
<S>...-Gixer
Ok I'm having a hard time grasping this... so you're basically saying that meeting at a set altitude is silly? What do you do when you duel? Climb to like 15k and then head in hoping to find your opponet at a disadvantage? What's the point of duelling if you have to have an advantage? Even if you get the other guy, could you ever admit to yourself that you "beat" him holding all the cards? Please tell me how you would go about a duel and what is so preposterous about meeting at the same altitude then fighting to see who the better pilot is?
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Duels don't always happen in the same plane. There are many planes that have clear advantages over others. It comes down to who has better stick settings, set-ups and the know how or skill to defeat the enemy.
Luck in some cases also can play a role. Like when you chase a guy around for 3-6 minutes then finally when your able to get a shot on him, the sun gets in the way, the cat jumps on your keyboard, your wife walks in the room naked, the pizza is at the door, smoke gets in your eye, the kid falls down the stairs,your computer freezes or you switch to udp
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Did you even read my thread i said its common sense that you would meet co alt i never said anything or would merge at a higher alt if someone wants to duel. And it isnt expected from other party either but if they do so be it.
<S>...-Gixer
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It is common sense that two would merge at a relative co alt co E engagement.
Not at all. It's a very simple courtesy to agree to an alt cap before the initial merge. There is no co-E without a cap because inevitably one or both players will be seeking to gain an E advantage before they even make visual contact. Which quite frankly is a waste of everyones time since the idea is to engage in a 1 vs 1, and not to fool around for 10 minutes playing who can climb the highest.
Trying to unbalance the fight before the initial merge, be it a 100 mph advantage from a climbout and dive, or 500 lb weight advantage from manipulating the loadout, or a no-notice surprise aircraft choice, shows a total lack of respect for the fellow player who has chosen to spend a portion of their game playing time to arrange a 1 vs 1 with another player.
Taking 30 seconds to communicate and agree on the pre-fight conditions is the adult thing to do. Trying to be a weasel and rig the fight well before it actually starts is the childish way of doing it.
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It's not common sense to set a merge alt for most people, believe me. Most people you get in the DA (think Cmustard) look for any advantage they can get and will do the lowest sort of things to do it. Like pacerr saying use 50 fuel while he grabs only 25% (my personal favorite). Anytime someone insists on 50 fuel you can almost guarantee that's what's going on.
And to A8Tool's comments... in a duel why would you ever be chasing a guy? And what does stick settings have to do with anything? The plane can only maneuver as much as the airframe allows, a certain stick setting can't make it do one bit more. Hell Lazer and Nilsen fly with a mouse... think their "stick settings" are uber? And they would own 99.9% of the AH population in a duel.
The reason there are rules for duelling is because it's supposed to be a gentleman's sport of fairness in setup to see who the better pilot is. A test of skill, not dweebery. If you object to all of these things, I can only come to one conclusion, and this is based on 10+ years of flight sim experience... the only ones who ever reject all the rules are the ones who have to have an unfair advantage to win. And why? Because they have zero integrity and just suck at fighting.
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And to A8Tool's comments... in a duel why would you ever be chasing a guy? And what does stick settings have to do with anything? The plane can only maneuver as much as the airframe allows, a certain stick setting can't make it do one bit more. Hell Lazer and Nilsen fly with a mouse... think their "stick settings" are uber? And they would own 99.9% of the AH population in a duel.
I just recently lost my stick settings again :mad: and I can tell you from experience that the stick you choose and your settings have everything to do with how good you are. Stang, change yours to the default and see what happens. You will not be able to pull off many of your maneuvers like you know you can. For me, when my settings are off, my plane will begin to snap roll or I'll go into a spin trying to do things I already know i can do in whatever particular plane it is I'm flying.
lazer and nilsen have their mice tuned perfectly not to mention they have years of experience. If they switched to a cheap or standard mouse and had to start with new settings they would suck for a day.....or more. Stick settings are more than 1/2 the battle. The rest comes with time and practice.
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Oh and BTW stang :) If your not chasing him that means he's chasing you unless your in a draw match. The roles can switch rather quickly depending on skill but there is no in between. Someone is always chasing or avoiding an advantage.
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I've never messed with my stick settings. Hell I probably have all the default settings in use. I could probably switch to flying w/ the mouse and it wouldn't make that much of a difference except fighting a guy like widewing or bighorn. You guys get way too caught up in this stick setting crap. It's not what makes one guy better than another.
How does stick settings affect what manuever I can pull off? To pull off a maneuver all I have to do is decide which one to do and simply fly my aircraft in that matter. Whatever stick or mouse I am using won't allow me to pull that maueuver any differently than what the plane allows me to do. The limits on the airframe are everything, not what the stick settings let you do. You can only do what your aircraft lets you do, stick settings won't change that one bit. Again, not one bit.
Some of you are paranoid thinking the best pilots have these uber stick settings that allow them to do things you can't. The only reason you can't pull some of these maneuvers they can is because you just aren't as good as they are or don't understand acm as well as they do. It's as simple as that.
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Sunday I was chasing a spit in MW. He had been running for a bit so I was typing alot with others in the room. Half way through a sentence he turns hard. lol I didn't react as fast as I normally would because I was mid-sentence. I quickly posted that half sentence and started a dance with the spit. It lasted almost 2 full minutes before I was able to gain the upper hand. So another suggestion is DON'T TYPE WHILE CLOSE IN. lol
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Here's your chasing comment. If you had to chase a guy for 3 to 6 minutes, then it isn't a duel, it's a lamefest. That or you're fighting pacerr. The only time you have to chase someone is when they have no clue what they are doing and they just extend away after the merge. Cluelessness isn't acm.
Luck in some cases also can play a role. Like when you chase a guy around for 3-6 minutes then finally when your able to get a shot on him, the sun gets in the way, the cat jumps on your keyboard, your wife walks in the room naked, the pizza is at the door, smoke gets in your eye, the kid falls down the stairs,your computer freezes or you switch to udp
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Oh and BTW stang :) If your not chasing him that means he's chasing you unless your in a draw match. The roles can switch rather quickly depending on skill but there is no in between. Someone is always chasing or avoiding an advantage.
I read your initial "chasing" comment the same way Stang did. Which is one plane trying to catch another in a straight line chase. If you meant circling in a luftberry for 5 minutes trying to gain angle and position on the other guy, chase is probably not the right word.
Like Stang said, a planes performance envelope in the game is the same regardless of the stick settings. Any issues one might have is between themselves and how they are accustomed to manipulating their controller. Stick setting do not make one "good" if they are not good to begin with. It just makes one more prone to making mistakes if the settings are not what they're used to.
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I read your initial "chasing" comment the same way Stang did. Which is one plane trying to catch another in a straight line chase. If you meant circling in a luftberry for 5 minutes trying to gain angle and position on the other guy, chase is probably not the right word.
Like Stang said, a planes performance envelope in the game is the same regardless of the stick settings. Any issues one might have is between themselves and how they are accustomed to manipulating their controller. Stick setting do not make one "good" if they are not good to begin with. It just makes one more prone to making mistakes if the settings are not what they're used to.
Bingo.
:aok
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Some people....er most people start out trying to avoid being killed before they finally begin acquiring skills enough to make one themselves. Some of them even to this day have more SA and avoidance skills than the actual ability to kill.
The majority of players coming into this game encounter nose bounce and the primary reason for not being able to kill efficiently. Without adjusting your stick settings properly, you can count on much frustration to be had. I would imagine Stang has no issues with nose bounce and Murder has spent many hours experimenting with stick settings trying to get them just right at some point.
Chasing a guy who's flying the same plane and has the same level of skill as you can lead to many minutes of chasing each other around. Each of you are looking for either a mistake or an advantage. Chasing someone in the main opposed to dueling it out in the air are two different things.
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I have horrible issues with nose bounce because my stick is 10 years old and is crapping out. Not much I can do about that except maybe try to replace the pots or get a new stick.
What is with all the chasing comments? Is that all you find yourself doing is chasing or being chased? The only guys I every chase are the chronically timid. Either they're just acm clueless or a "vet" who lacks a set of gonads.
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duel are so WWI :p
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I remember once, years ago, when I was making an attack run on some GVs using an Il-2 when suddenly there was a cacophony of pings and bangs that seemed to go on far longer than the Il-2 could hold together, and then the roar of a Spitfire Mk IX as it overshot me and began a lazy pull up. I raised the nose a bit and popped off a burst of 23mm cannon and anniliated the Spitfire at about 500 yards. Then I nursed my pulverized "Flying Coffin" back home.
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In fairness I understand what A8TOOL is trying to say with reference to stick settings. My CH stick with default sliders, dead band and damping will roll my F6 inverted when on the edge in a hard turn. Not good for lead shooting.
I find the CH stick too sensitive with default settings. Little to no feel before the plane does it's own thing.
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In my sig I have a link to some colored gun sights. Some of the previous sights I've found are good but just didn't fit what I thought I needed to do the job. Like when learning to shoot rockets.
No sight can make you a better pilot but finding the right one that works for you can make all the difference...just like stick settings.
I like these two best because they fit most every plane, are not to cluttered and help me line up targets easily. I don't need the rocket one as much anymore but the vertical lines can still help me.
The stick settings I use are probably close to Mudr's and taken from settings I found in a post made years ago on the subject in either 2001 or 2 by Lephern I think his name was.
I further manipulated them using one of the CH products control manager functions that allows me to get even more control. I don't exactly need it but it's there for me to use if I wanted just like AH's map controller function.
Getting back on topic...kind of. Widewing was overshot by that mustang partly because he may not have known how to use (manipulate) his rudder or manage his throttle. Throttle management is key to avoiding overshoots and the guns on an A20 can be very deadly once your in front of them :)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/Yellow_A-1_rocket.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/A-1Type1_Alpha.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss133.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss131.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss130.jpg)
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Not at all. It's a very simple courtesy to agree to an alt cap before the initial merge. There is no co-E without a cap because inevitably one or both players will be seeking to gain an E advantage before they even make visual contact. Which quite frankly is a waste of everyones time since the idea is to engage in a 1 vs 1, and not to fool around for 10 minutes playing who can climb the highest.
Trying to unbalance the fight before the initial merge, be it a 100 mph advantage from a climbout and dive, or 500 lb weight advantage from manipulating the loadout, or a no-notice surprise aircraft choice, shows a total lack of respect for the fellow player who has chosen to spend a portion of their game playing time to arrange a 1 vs 1 with another player.
Taking 30 seconds to communicate and agree on the pre-fight conditions is the adult thing to do. Trying to be a weasel and rig the fight well before it actually starts is the childish way of doing it.
Having rules in a dual doesn't help either. It is just an other way to unbalance the fight before the initial merge.
Example. I would wonder how a pilot would always have more e that me on a co alt merge.
the little trick is to come in one k or more higher and looking at map before the icon can be spotted starting a dive to the agreed to alt. then from there its a game of who can mow the grass the closest.
Most rules are in fact to handicap the less knowledgeable pilot in the dual.
THE 1v1 dual in the DA with rules is more about handicapping one player than making it fair. They wont tell you the alt dive trick or the others.
Some the the funnest and fairest fights in the DA have been 1 v 1 with no rules.
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Having rules in a dual doesn't help either. It is just an other way to unbalance the fight before the initial merge.
Example. I would wonder how a pilot would always have more e that me on a co alt merge.
the little trick is to come in one k or more higher and looking at map before the icon can be spotted starting a dive to the agreed to alt. then from there its a game of who can mow the grass the closest.
Most rules are in fact to handicap the less knowledgeable pilot in the dual.
THE 1v1 dual in the DA with rules is more about handicapping one player than making it fair. They wont tell you the alt dive trick or the others.
Some the the funnest and fairest fights in the DA have been 1 v 1 with no rules.
Wrong... goes back to what they were saying about rules. If you climb above the agreed merge, even though your co-alt at the merge, all your doing is conceding the other guy is much better than you. That is not a "trick" as you call it. It is simply a method used by a weaker cartoon pilot to give him a chance in the fight. A person using that method to cover his inabilities or weaknesses might get along fine for awhile... till caught. Then no matter what they do in the future, they'll always be stuck with the moniker of "weak pilot"or of "one not to be trusted".
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Having rules in a dual doesn't help either. It is just an other way to unbalance the fight before the initial merge.
Example. I would wonder how a pilot would always have more e that me on a co alt merge.
the little trick is to come in one k or more higher and looking at map before the icon can be spotted starting a dive to the agreed to alt. then from there its a game of who can mow the grass the closest.
Most rules are in fact to handicap the less knowledgeable pilot in the dual.
THE 1v1 dual in the DA with rules is more about handicapping one player than making it fair. They wont tell you the alt dive trick or the others.
Some the the funnest and fairest fights in the DA have been 1 v 1 with no rules.
Another clueless post, yet I think this might be the majority opionion of people in game. How sad is that?
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If there is a way to try to cheat in a duel, I have probably seen it, but that is not the point. If you do not ask an opponent to agree to anything, then you cannot expect anything either. If they agree to the duel setup, and then break their word, then they are a liar and a cheat, and many in the community like to be aware of such things. And word of those players dweebery does get around.
The reason there are rules for duelling is because it's supposed to be a gentleman's sport of fairness in setup to see who the better pilot is. A test of skill, not dweebery.
Yep, it's pretty much a filter of who can act like a gentleman, and who is an arse.
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If there is a way to try to cheat in a duel, I have probably seen it, but that is not the point. If you do not ask an opponent to agree to anything, then you cannot expect anything either. If they agree to the duel setup, and then break their word, then they are a liar and a cheat, and many in the community like to be aware of such things. And word of those players dweebery does get around.
Yep, it's pretty much a filter of who can act like a gentleman, and who is an arse.
:rock :rock :rock :rock :rock
:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
;)
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I can post the film... Suit yourself.
My regards,
Widewing
Post eeet! :D
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Yep, it's pretty much a filter of who can act like a gentleman, and who is an arse.
So if I might have a reputation in the MA as a gentleman and good opponent to come across. But simply not agreeing or being interested in the DA with it's set rules and instead preferring the more open arena of the MA for duels that makes me an arse in the communities view?
According to the Training Corp? Or is that just your opinion?
<S>...-Gixer
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Being bested by a better pilot in a fair fight is not shameful. However.... puffing up ones chest then not accepting a fair fight ( with same planes and set rules) is. :aok
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Having rules in a dual doesn't help either. It is just an other way to unbalance the fight before the initial merge.
Example. I would wonder how a pilot would always have more e that me on a co alt merge.
the little trick is to come in one k or more higher and looking at map before the icon can be spotted starting a dive to the agreed to alt. then from there its a game of who can mow the grass the closest.
Most rules are in fact to handicap the less knowledgeable pilot in the dual.
THE 1v1 dual in the DA with rules is more about handicapping one player than making it fair. They wont tell you the alt dive trick or the others.
Some the the funnest and fairest fights in the DA have been 1 v 1 with no rules.
I'll pull the diving trick while training with my squaddies. However I start AT the specified alt CAP and dive to trick them into thinking I'm at a worse E-state because I'm below them. :D
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duel are so WWI :p
:rofl
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So if I have a reputation in the MA as a gentleman and good opponent to come across. But simply not agreeing or being interested in the DA with it's set rules and instead preferring the more open arena of the MA for duels that makes me an arse in the communities view?
According to the Training Corp? Or is that just your opinion?
<S>...-Gixer
Not what he said at all. "If" you agree to rules then do not abide by them, then you will be stoned sayeth the masses. If you don't agree to any rules then expect nothing in return. If you free-form in the MA there is nothing wrong with that.....
Personally I don't go into the DA either but I have no problem with those that do...
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Did you even read my thread i said its common sense that you would meet co alt i never said anything or would merge at a higher alt if someone wants to duel. And it isnt expected from other party either but if they do so be it.
<S>...-Gixer
not to be a smart ass, but you dont tell me "co alt merge" or "no HO's" i will do whatever the hell i want, just incase you should do it too, unless i know your honest enough to not do one or the other.
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I'd like to see some more film, and hear a lot less from Gixer.
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I'd like to see some more film, and hear a lot less from Gixer.
No problem, I'll sit back and watch and see how this and any new threads pan out.
<S>...-Gixer
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So if I might have a reputation in the MA as a gentleman and good opponent to come across. But simply not agreeing or being interested in the DA with it's set rules and instead preferring the more open arena of the MA for duels that makes me an arse in the communities view?
According to the Training Corp? Or is that just your opinion?
<S>...-Gixer
Not what he said at all. "If" you agree to rules then do not abide by them, then you will be stoned sayeth the masses. If you don't agree to any rules then expect nothing in return. If you free-form in the MA there is nothing wrong with that.....
Personally I don't go into the DA either but I have no problem with those that do...
I think Shuff pretty much summed it up.
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Wrong... goes back to what they were saying about rules. If you climb above the agreed merge, even though your co-alt at the merge, all your doing is conceding the other guy is much better than you. That is not a "trick" as you call it. It is simply a method used by a weaker cartoon pilot to give him a chance in the fight. A person using that method to cover his inabilities or weaknesses might get along fine for awhile... till caught. Then no matter what they do in the future, they'll always be stuck with the moniker of "weak pilot"or of "one not to be trusted".
i used to do, as for your reasons stated. i would climb up higher, then dive down hoping to have more E, and go verticle longer than the other, but it didnt work that way; and i just thought to myself "i wont get any better by being a cheap shot, i may as well grit my teeth and try the honest way", and i have gotten much better. as sonicblu said, the rules are to handicap the weaker player, it handicaps them to some extent, but take them out 4 or 5 months later and see if they are as handicapped. 20 bucks says that they will have more skill and sense of ACM, so they will do better, even if its not a whole lot, they will do better. :salute
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Gixer, thanks for the entertainment. I havent laughed like that in a long time.
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The insistence that a co alt, co E, same plane/load out duel is a handicap is driving me nuts. Your skill level is your handicap (that, and your attitude). Pretty gunsight colors, fancy stick setups/scalings, being a pansie and disregarding the rules in a structured duel... these do not make you a better cartoon pilot. These are obstacles in your way, and opportunities to find excuses for your inability to compete, while ignoring the simple fact that you just aren't as good as the other guy.
This attitude that a fair fight is to be avoided at all costs explains a lot about gameplay in the arenas.
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The insistence that a co alt, co E, same plane/load out duel is a handicap is driving me nuts.
I saw the BS meter spike several dozen krusties on that point myself.
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Widewing,
I'm not repeating myself again over a thread and episode that was months ago, if you like link the old thread and post the film then do it, and if you post the film post it from the start and post it in a new thread so it isn't lost in this one.. But remember the challenge you gave out was a open one no communication was ever given prior about DA rules especially one with reduced range of 1.5k.
It is hilarious that you think I used F3 in the DA, and hilarious that I would use it in a Yak out of all planes in the set. What on earth advantage would I gain from using F3 in a Yak when it is the only plane in the game that has a better view looking backwards then forwards?
As for the "he won't duel" that's also ridiculous, no I won't in the DA under your long list of rules but if you want to again in the MA with no rules I will any time. Like I do against many others who specifically go out looking for duels against me. If you want to do the same, do so and fly what ever you want. You can post those films as well.
I know you like to think of the DA as your personal sandpit but it doesn't interest me and never has.
Now F3 in the MA for buffs is one of the longest going cheats that's ever been in AH, using F3 for gunning instead of dropping into turrets, but now seeing it being used in the A20 is something else. IMHO the F3 view should of been dumped long ago.
While I respect the information,training and time you put towards this community I'm not some two month newbie or one of your groupies, if your going to make claims about me then go for it. But one of Timid and "he won't duel" won't stick.
And thanks for the new sig.
<S>...-Gixer
I didn't say DA, did I? It was in the TA, and you used it any time you lost sight of me. Again, not an issue, I used it too. Not to fight, but to track you as you extended halfway to New Zealand.
I've watched the films you posted to the Help and Training forum. Generally, what you are offering is lessons on picking guys occupied in a fight, or helpless noobs with zero skill. http://files.filefront.com/Gixer+Yak+9Tzip/;11571402;/fileinfo.html (http://files.filefront.com/Gixer+Yak+9Tzip/;11571402;/fileinfo.html) If you want to see a high order of skill, watch this film instead: http://www.4shared.com/file/67039966/d872b91a/Phew.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/67039966/d872b91a/Phew.html)
The fact is, unless forced upon you, you will not engage without a significant advantage in altitude or speed. Even with every advantage, your timidity undoes you on occasion. http://www.mediafire.com/?2ww5nidmyi5 (http://www.mediafire.com/?2ww5nidmyi5) I have no idea what BillyD was doing much of the time, other than begging to get clobbered. I can say that there was enough suckage there to vacuum pack the Mall of America.
You cannot deny that the reason you won't duel is that a duel means equality at the outset. Equality in your case means taking the risk of getting your clock cleaned, which is something you apparently can't handle. You could always put the suicide hotline on speed dial, or you could accept the fact that getting beat is nothing more than part of the learning process.
You don't like rules because rules would highlight your shortcomings. We wouldn't think less of you for that. Your issue is that you seem unable deal with it on your own level.
So, inasmuch as rules make you uncomfortable, how about a duel with just one rule. One teensie, weensie, little rule. Shouldn't be too tough, right?
You can't fight this duel in the DA, so it would be in the TA. We go to a large field. We each take an aircraft. You can fly your Yak-9T. I'll take something less sprightly. Let's say.... A Boston Mk.III or if you prefer, some comparable fighter like a P-39Q or even the -9T, okay? Any fuel load you want is fine. We spawn on opposite runways and get the engines running. On a given signal, we roll, passing as we take off. upon reaching the end of the runway, we reverse. Okay, now comes the one rule... You cannot leave the horizontal boundaries of the airfield (the outer taxiways). Cage Match!!!!
Anyone who flies outside the boundary loses by default.
One simple, easy to understand rule. There should be no confusion or miscommunication.
Should be a no-brainer, right?
Since there's no gun lethality in the TA, winning is based upon how many times one gets hosed, or augers, or throws a hissy-fit and logs off.
Should you do well, I'll tip my hat to you. Should you not do well, I'll still tip my hat to you. Indeed, should you let yourself go, be a wild child, throw caution to the winds, you might even have fun. What's the worst that could happen? You break a few cartoon airplanes, right? Not to worry, the HTC Xerox machine will spit 'em out as fast as they get wrecked.
My regards,
Widewing
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umm......PWNED!!! :) #S# WW
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(http://www.forumspile.com/Owned/Owned-BadHair.jpg)
:rofl
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Nevermind
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Widewing,
No problem, on the large field idea in the TA.
As you offered Yak-9Ts it is.
1. 25% Fuel
2. Taters only MG hit counts for nothing.
3. No F3 views or any other TA training aids.
Otherwise as descirbed from takeoff and within horizontal boundaries of the airfield. What is it most hit's with the 37mm wins? Auger counts as a kill or reset?
After that we can do DA if time persists, you fly what ever you like and I'll continue with the Yak-9T normal DA rules but you have to destroy the other aircraft to claim a win, damaged doesn't count.
Post the films in a new thread afterwards others can decide for themselves.
Again time differences, I should be available from this Thursday evening your time through the weekend.
<S>...-Gixer
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i used to do, as for your reasons stated. i would climb up higher, then dive down hoping to have more E, and go verticle longer than the other, but it didnt work that way; and i just thought to myself "i wont get any better by being a cheap shot, i may as well grit my teeth and try the honest way", and i have gotten much better. as sonicblu said, the rules are to handicap the weaker player, it handicaps them to some extent, but take them out 4 or 5 months later and see if they are as handicapped. 20 bucks says that they will have more skill and sense of ACM, so they will do better, even if its not a whole lot, they will do better. :salute
I see your point but I disagree. If there are no rules the individual will handicap himself. Most will climb to what he hopes is a higher alt.... in doing so he will not meet another opponent on an even playing field. This means he will improve very little because improvement is not required if all you do is fight from advantage.
Oh the cage fights sound fun. Should be good for alot of laughs too. No matter who fights who.
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ya'll should bring your "seconds" to .join your opponent. :noid
this applies to anyone who feels they can't trust the other party's integrity in the arranged DA engagement.
nothing surprises me at the lengths poepl go to gain an edge in a duel, especially same plane co-alt, yadda yadda. these would include:
taking less than agreed upon fuel (actually 25% is enough for any plane, but i don't mind higher loads as they reflect the MA performance - all about trusting the other guy)
alting out of range and diving in
coming in higher than agreed upon
dumping ammo on takeoff
<meh> it's all about integrity and communicating the actual RoE before taking off.
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ya'll should bring your "seconds" to .join your opponent. :noid
A lot consider having an observer is cheating in a duel for some reason. Frankly, I would rather have an observer to the duel join my plane than buzzing around the fight in a plane.
ack-ack
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While we are on the topic of duels:
I'm not in the DA very often and have a question: is a front quarter shot (which the other will perceive as a HO, even if i have few degrees advantage and can shoot earlier) fair game in duels?
I'm talking after the initial merge.
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A lot consider having an observer is cheating in a duel for some reason. Frankly, I would rather have an observer to the duel join my plane than buzzing around the fight in a plane.
ack-ack
you misunderstood... my second joins his plane... the action will be much too fast paced after merge for a rider to be of any tactical assistance. prevents pre-merge shenigans.
yeah, i hate people flying close to watch, it *is* distracting... use /.join or god's eye mode.
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Widewing,
No problem, on the large field idea in the TA.
As you offered Yak-9Ts it is.
1. 25% Fuel
2. Taters only MG hit counts for nothing.
3. No F3 views or any other TA training aids.
Otherwise as descirbed from takeoff and within horizontal boundaries of the airfield. What is it most hit's with the 37mm wins? Auger counts as a kill or reset?
After that we can do DA if time persists, you fly what ever you like and I'll continue with the Yak-9T normal DA rules but you have to destroy the other aircraft to claim a win, damaged doesn't count.
Post the films in a new thread afterwards others can decide for themselves.
Again time differences, I should be available from this Thursday evening your time through the weekend.
<S>...-Gixer
Excellent!
I don't know why you discount MG hits, I've gotten kills with the -9Ts one MG. However, it doesn't matter either way.
I should be available on Friday evening (not a training night). I'm sure you'll have fun, these types of fights are a hoot.
I'll PM you when I know precisely as to when I'll be in the TA Friday evening.
My regards,
Widewing
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While we are on the topic of duels:
I'm not in the DA very often and have a question: is a front quarter shot (which the other will perceive as a HO, even if i have few degrees advantage and can shoot earlier) fair game in duels?
I'm talking after the initial merge.
depends.... but it's not verboten. mostly the shot would be held *if* the two duelers are friendly and want to make it more challenging.
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Excellent!
I don't know why you discount MG hits, I've gotten kills with the -9Ts one MG. However, it doesn't matter either way.
My regards,
Widewing
I discount the MG simply because there is no skill hitting with it compared to the 37mm and therefore the MG isn't any sort of test. Yes we can all hit/kill with the single MG. Unlike skill required hit/% with the tater.
If you can don't even have it mapped, as I don't. Not there is any mistaking the difference of the hit sprite between the two.
Yes I'm looking forward to it too, especially if going into this you actually believe in the BS you've been trying to spread and discredit me with.
<S>...-Gixer
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Lots of grey area there Leitwolf... two general rules apply though. If the opponet clearly can't get his nose up to make it a true headon (both planes in the other's recticule) then it is a fair shot. The other if both planes are nose to nose (after first merge) and one breaks early to try to gain an angle. In this case if he shows you his belly go ahead and blast it off.
Again it's fairly grey as when friends duel they'll usually let the small stuff slide and keep the fight going for the sake of the fight. Now if I were fighting Dedalos I'd open up a can of souvlaki on him any chance I got. Maybe throw some turkish falafel in there as well.
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I discount the MG simply because there is no skill hitting with it compared to the 37mm and therefore the MG isn't any sort of test. Yes we can all hit/kill with the single MG. Unlike skill required hit/% with the tater.
If you can don't even have it mapped, as I don't. Not there is any mistaking the difference of the hit sprite between the two.
Yes I'm looking forward to it too, especially if going into this you actually believe in the BS you've been trying to spread and discredit me with.
<S>...-Gixer
Well if he's saddled up on you long enough to gnaw you wings off with the mg I think we know who won, lol.
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Well? What happened?
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Well? What happened?
Gixer took his ball and went home?
:noid
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I was helping to beat back a major GV raid. I was up an A-20 and had been dodging P-51s for a few minutes. I was missing an aileron courtesy of Wirblewind. While I was working over a Panzer in the town, a P-51D comes in and makes a rather badly managed attack. This results in a classic overshoot and the resulting consequences. A-20s are tough birds and you won't do much harm to them scattering just a few hits.
http://home.att.net/~historyworld/Classic-Overshoot.ahf (http://home.att.net/~historyworld/Classic-Overshoot.ahf)
targets of oppertunity always taste good, nice work!
I will meet your careless p51 overshoots quick thinking A20 and raise you by one front page top ranked player in P38 overshoots furballing B26 :t
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/B26furballing.ahf
S!
bat
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Gixer took his ball and went home?
:noid
Coordinating across the planet is a dilemma. We expect to get together by next weekend (11/14 or 11/15). It didn't work out this weekend. I PM'd Gixer saying I would be free after 9 PM Saturday. I went to the TA at 8:45 and waited till 9:45. I then logged into the two LW MAs and the DA. No Gixer. I then returned to the TA. Again, not there. So I went to the MA for an hour. Gixer arrived around 11 PM, but I was about to log as I had to be on the road at 5:30 AM to drive to JFK airport (NYC) to pick up family arriving at 7:30 Am. I returned home about 20 minutes ago.
Anyway, we are going to reschedule for next weekend. Gixer will pick a specific time that works for him, rather than the somewhat vague "after 9 PM".
Meanwhile, having not flown the Yak-9T in a while, I've been tuning up dueling veterans in Spit16s and LaLas. Also, I've been doing little MA flying in it as well. I discovered a couple of FM quirks that can be exploited that I've never seen anyone else use. No one stall fights in Yaks due to a three-axis instability at low speed (below 120 mph). However, I found that this instability can be managed and utilized to do some very interesting things. Inasmuch as the Yak-9T cannot generate more than 200 mph from takeoff within the confines of the field, these fights will be at low-speed with a fighter that accelerates poorly and will be a handful with flaps out.
My regards,
Widewing
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targets of oppertunity always taste good, nice work!
I will meet your careless p51 overshoots quick thinking A20 and raise you by one front page top ranked player in P38 overshoots furballing B26 :t
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/B26furballing.ahf
S!
bat
I'll fold... :)
I'll bet Jackraid was banging his head on his desk over that one. Excellent flying.
My regards,
Widewing
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Gixer is a decent stick. He and I got into an extended stall fight one night. He was in his 9T, I was in a XVI. I was surprised at how well he managed the 9T and he did finally win. I don't remember if it was with a shot or if I augered though (I hate that XVI departure at low speeds). Either way it was a good fight.
I'd still put my money on WW having fought them both though. It should be fun for both of you.
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www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/last2.zip
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I'll fold... :)
I'll bet Jackraid was banging his head on his desk over that one. Excellent flying.
ty, doubt he would fall for that one again though.
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Another clueless post, yet I think this might be the majority opionion of people in game. How sad is that?
Why don't u expand on that Stang how is the post clueless......
Sonicblu pointed out that the rules are only as good as the ethics or respect of the person......The rules for them are nothing more than a trick to lock u in a box while flying..... JUST LIKE 50% fuel trick.... theirs the alt cap trick... ord trick......and many others......
The rules at that point only shine a light on the others character....and for the fight are worthless....
Murdrs point if u have respect for the other pilot you need less rules...
When I duel i don't need rules just a pilot with a little respect..... It not something you can teach in here they either have it or don't.....
<S>
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Basic Rules are there to set the ethics as much as they can be set. Additional rules may be set to prevent other "behaviors".
One example is to shoot out much of the ammo to lighten the airplane. Another is to climb above the hard ceiling and dive to the agreed to altitude for the E advantage. Some guys will want to start a lead turn prior to the actual physical merge. If you suspect this may be the case, be specific on the rules prior to the fight. I've dueled guys who thought nothing of cheating. More often, I've dueled guys for whom cheating was never even a thought.
When two guys have great respect for each other and value fairness above winning, no rules are required as neither will attempt to gain an advantage outside the scope of fair competition.
I've fought many duels where my opponent pulled off to reset a merge realizing he had an advantage. I do the same, although I really don't mind starting at a disadvantage under certain circumstances with certain individuals. If I'm dueling a guy who is in the learning process, I'll give the advantage just to see what he does with it.
Most guys are honorable, a few are not. Film usually exposes these few to public scrutiny.
My regards,
Widewing
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When I duel i don't need rules just a pilot with a little respect..... It not something you can teach in here they either have it or don't.....
<S>
That I can agree with... you guys are missing the point though. Veteran players who have frequented the DA don't make rules to try to gain an advantage. Quite the opposite. The rules are meant to make things totally even. Only a scumbag like pacerr tries to set "rules" to get the other guy at a disadvantage.
The rules are pretty much common knowledge. All I have to say when duelling someone is what the merge alt will be, which usually is the same altitude as the field you take off at anyway. There is no climbing, just level flight into the fight. Once you have vis you can dive to the deck and then it's on. A lot of newer players might not know that last part so I would inform them if they don't know. Hardly a way to gain a dweebish advantage.
Again if you've been there and know, you know. Never going there, claiming you know what goes on and believing the paranoia that good fliers are great because they cheat, use tricks or have better mapped sticks... hogwash.
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Another clueless post, yet I think this might be the majority opionion of people in game. How sad is that?
Hmm firedrgn spells it out for you and you agree. Firedrgn got it.
The same lack of respect we are talking about in the DA is the same lack of decency you show on your post.
If we all we all agreed on all aspects of a person's post we wouldn't need the BBs. Keep it in context next time and keep your emotional overgeneralizations out of it. I welcome your point of view in context. I spend a ton of time in the DA. I do know what goes on in there.
Sorry you didnt get it, Murdr and I are in Violent Agreement. I was just adding a refined distiction from my point of view. I thought it was understood it is the person not the plane or the DA or the rules or the lack of rules. When I have to spell everything out some of the finer points are lost. Because you get lost in the content and don't look at the context. Or worse yet you ignore it and post anyway.
Do we need to agree on a set of rules for your posts. So that everyone is treated with decency and respect.
You expect one thing in the DA and do another on your post.
1. Lack of respect
2. Sloppy overgeneralization.
3. Poorly frame rhetorical question built on emotional ignorance.
In your other post you say "you guys are missing the point though. veteran players who have frequented the DA don't make rules to try and gain an advantage."
We never said nor assumed such a thing. Did I say Veteran Players? your putting words in my mouth. I dont care who they are your the one assuming that only Veteran players know enough to gain an advantage with rules.
" Believing the Paranoia" Again an ignorant bellybutton umption. Those are your words not mine. Nor is it a belief of mine.
Your post is filled with Manure.
Never mind you just dont get it. If I have to spell it out for you, you wont understand.
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The Rules wont change someones behavior.. even in the DA .....it only allows u to shine the light on their character.
"Veteran players who have frequented the DA don't make rules to try to gain an advantage."
This is a respones to someones brilliant "re frame". Who said they do? Who ever it was obviously communicates far better than they fly. This is important!!!! HOW can you respond to something that is untrue?
"Never going there, claiming you know what goes on and believing the paranoia that good fliers are great because they cheat, use tricks or have better mapped sticks... hogwash"
What Paranoia?????? Your just ingaged in conversation with someone that ,again, communicates far better than they fly.... Obviously this came from someone who got there A-- handed to them by you.
The Problem is you believe that there is Paranoia. You cant tell me that you respect someone that does think such things.... unless u do their opinion is mute and does not matter anyways. Clearly you dont need respect from such players.
Ive been playing for 3 years and this is the first time i have even heard of such nonsense....
<S>