Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Dadsguns on November 04, 2008, 09:36:30 AM
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I am completely lost how ENY really works.
This is an example from two different maps, I could be completely wrong here but comparing them its seems completely off in regards to the ENY imposed due to ratio of players versus in flight between the two maps, yet one side has a much higher ENY than another.
Can anyone explain ENY to me from someone that really has some knowledge of ENY, I am just trying to understand clearly how it works.
Not sure where I am supposed to post this question.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k213/nikomon/onlytherookenv.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k213/nikomon/rookBSenvy.jpg
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It is based on the total number of pilots on the rosters, not the numbers in flight.
The difference in the screenshots is the relative disparity between the lowest numbered country vs the other 2 respectively. In one screenshot Rooks have a 12.3% advantage over the lowest country. In the next, bishops have an 18.7% advantage and concequently have a higher ENY limit even though the percentage of the high countries are almost identical between the two screenshots. In that same image, the rooks have a 15.3% advantage over the small country and are also subject to ENY limits.
HiTech posted the code for it in this thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,229990.msg2797085.html#msg2797085)
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It is based on the total number of pilots on the rosters, not the numbers in flight.
The difference in the screenshots is the relative disparity between the lowest numbered country vs the other 2 respectively. In one screenshot Rooks have a 12.3% advantage over the lowest country. In the next, bishops have an 18.7% advantage and concequently have a higher ENY limit even though the percentage of the high countries are almost identical between the two screenshots. In that same image, the rooks have a 15.3% advantage over the small country and are also subject to ENY limits.
HiTech posted the code for it in this thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,229990.msg2797085.html#msg2797085)
The code does not tell me what eny means, hence code.
However if you break down the numbers from each one, even though the percentages are fairly close, there is a dramatic eny difference. Why?
I understand that ENY comes from players in country, not in flight.
Country Cnt Inflight Waiting %Total Min-Eny
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7
Example 2. Bishops 72 44 0 40.7% 13.8
Knights 39 31 0 22.0% 0.0
Rooks 66 49 0 37.3% 8.4
Example 1 has a 40.8% and a 3.7 eny
Example 2 has a 40.7% and a 13.8 eny
Example 1. - 77 players difference, which imposes a 3.7 eny.
Example 2. - 33 players difference, which imposes a 13.8 eny
Nothing about this adds up to me and does not appear to be proportional.
I would have thought that a stiff eny would apply to a 77 player advantage since a 13.8 eny is applied against a 33 player advantage.
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It based on the difference compared to the smallest country. Using your example:
Country Cnt Inflight Waiting %Total Min-Eny
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0 = 8% larger than Bish
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7 = 43% larger than Bish
Example 2. Bishops 72 44 0 40.7% 13.8 = 85% larger than Knights
Knights 39 31 0 22.0% 0.0
Rooks 66 49 0 37.3% 8.4 = 69% larger than Knights
8% larger = no ENY
43% larger = 3.7 ENY
69% larger = 8.4 ENY
85% larger = 13.8 ENY
To calculate: (Bigger Country #'s - Smaller Country #'s)/Smaller country #'s.
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The code does not tell me what eny means, hence code.
However if you break down the numbers from each one, even though the percentages are fairly close, there is a dramatic eny difference. Why?
I understand that ENY comes from players in country, not in flight.
Country Cnt Inflight Waiting %Total Min-Eny
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7
Example 2. Bishops 72 44 0 40.7% 13.8
Knights 39 31 0 22.0% 0.0
Rooks 66 49 0 37.3% 8.4
Example 1 has a 40.8% and a 3.7 eny
Example 2 has a 40.7% and a 13.8 eny
Example 1. - 77 players difference, which imposes a 3.7 eny.
Example 2. - 33 players difference, which imposes a 13.8 eny
Nothing about this adds up to me and does not appear to be proportional.
I would have thought that a stiff eny would apply to a 77 player advantage since a 13.8 eny is applied against a 33 player advantage.
You are still looking too much at absolute values without taking relative numbers into account.
First, a 77 players "advantage" can be much less than a 33 player "advantage" depending on overall numbers.
Extreme example :
277 to 200 players = 77 more = 39% more.
66 to 33 players = 33 more = 100% more.
As already stated, the ENY limit imposed on your country is:
YOUR % of players directly compared to SMALLEST country % of players.
In you example above its 40.8% to 28.5% (43% more players) and 40.7% to 22% (85%) more players. You see, 85% vs 43% more players is almost double the advantage. Hence resulting in 13.7 ENY vs 3.7 ENY
Overall, once your country's relative advantage over lowest number country gets to ~40% ENY limiter starts to kick in, getting quickly stronger the bigger your advantage gets.
And contrary to popular opinion, it's indeed the very same formula & effects for every country. Players just tend to notice ENY limiter only when its applied against them[/]... very much like the perceived "We (Knights/Bish/Rook) are always getting ganged!" ;)
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Country Cnt Inflight Waiting %Total Min-Eny
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7
Example 2. Bishops 72 44 0 40.7% 13.8
Knights 39 31 0 22.0% 0.0
Rooks 66 49 0 37.3% 8.4
To me, in the first example Rooks out number the Bish 1.4 to 1, in the second its almost 2 to 1 Bish vs Knits so you get a higher ENY
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The formula is handy to help understand the percentages :
To calculate: (Bigger Country #'s - Smaller Country #'s)/Smaller country #'s.
When you get to 40% eny kicks in, is there a set scale for it as it increases per each percent, example
1% -40% = no ENY
40% = 3.7 ENY
41% = 3.8 ENY
42% = 3.9 ENY and so forth.....until you get to the highest eny of 29?
What would be the percent peak for 29 eny? / ??%> = 29 ENY
You are still looking too much at absolute values without taking relative numbers into account.
First, a 77 players "advantage" can be much less than a 33 player "advantage" depending on overall numbers.
Extreme example :
277 to 200 players = 77 more = 39% more.
66 to 33 players = 33 more = 100% more.
And contrary to popular opinion, it's indeed the very same formula & effects for every country. Players just tend to notice ENY limiter only when its applied against them[/]... very much like the perceived "We (Knights/Bish/Rook) are always getting ganged!" ;)
Lusche,
Contrary to your opinion, absolute values is exactly what people are basing their opinions of eny from since this is what they know and see, this is to clarify not only to myself, but to those that do not know specifically how it works. Most people will look at 77 more people on a side would indeed have more of an advantage in a game than 33 more, no matter what the percentage works out to be.
So, please keep opinions out of it, and lets keep to the facts of what this discussion is all about. Just ENY.
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Opinion is "most people" think. Fact is how country balance actually works. Which repliers are trying to communicate.
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Lusche,
Contrary to your opinion, absolute values is exactly what people are basing their opinions of eny from since this is what they know and see.
This is absolutely not contrary to my opinion. I think I made it pretty clear. I explained how ENY works, and why many players seem to misunderstand ENY limiter. Pointing out where misconceptions may arise from does often help to make clear how things do really work.
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The formula is handy to help understand the percentages :
To calculate: (Bigger Country #'s - Smaller Country #'s)/Smaller country #'s.
When you get to 40% eny kicks in, is there a set scale for it as it increases per each percent, example
1% -40% = no ENY
40% = 3.7 ENY
41% = 3.8 ENY
42% = 3.9 ENY and so forth.....until you get to the highest eny of 29?
What would be the percent peak for 29 eny? / ??%> = 29 ENY
I'm sure there is a scale although I don't know what it is. I suspect it is not linear but rather based on a curve looking at the example I posted above.
I'm sure someone smarter than me could calculate the curve based off of these numbers:
8% larger = no ENY
43% larger = 3.7 ENY
69% larger = 8.4 ENY
85% larger = 13.8 ENY
Glad to see that you at least understand now why it is the way it is though.
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Lusche,
Contrary to your opinion, absolute values is exactly what people are basing their opinions of eny from since this is what they know and see, this is to clarify not only to myself, but to those that do not know specifically how it works. Most people will look at 77 more people on a side would indeed have more of an advantage in a game than 33 more, no matter what the percentage works out to be.
So, please keep opinions out of it, and lets keep to the facts of what this discussion is all about. Just ENY.
I understand that this thread was started elsewhere and moved here. However this is the Help and Training board. This is the only public board on the entire forum where by default, a post by a Trainer should always be assumed to be as in an official capacity as a Trainer. Unlike gameplay, tacticts, or "style" topics, game mechanics are a known quantity. Game mechanics are what they are, and the Trainers put a lot of effort into staying up to date on the many game mechanic systems in AH. I'd appreciate you not suggesting how Trainers should reply on a topic in H&T when you were the one asking for the information to begin with.
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I'm sure there is a scale although I don't know what it is. I suspect it is not linear but rather based on a curve looking at the example I posted above.
This is the graph example that HiTech posted though it is from 2004 showing a linear scale, with the smallest country having 100 players. I am not aware of any changes since then that would make it non-linear.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/hitech/neweny.jpg)
The numbers are just an example. It depends on the percentage wrather than numbers. I.E. take the player count in the small country , then divide your country by the smallest. I.E. int this example smallest is 100.
So if your country has 135 it would be 135/100.
HiTech
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Your correct, I have asked for just that, information. Nothing more.
Thank you for being informative and clear with your explanation of this subject without getting off topic.
So, up to this point many of us should have a better understanding of how it works, the only questions that remains is how does the scale progress for each percentage up to the max of 29 eny.
I'm sure there is a scale although I don't know what it is. I suspect it is not linear but rather based on a curve looking at the example I posted above.
I'm sure someone smarter than me could calculate the curve based off of these numbers:
8% larger = no ENY
43% larger = 3.7 ENY
69% larger = 8.4 ENY
85% larger = 13.8 ENY
EDIT: I see your graph below.
The increase in eny increments of percent/players are not clear, however I do understand the concept.
My question specifically would be as shown above. What values would corresponde with percentages as the scale increased?
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Here you go. I went with the metric I used in my first post, which was to simply deduct the lowest "%Total" from the country you're comparing with since the country percentages are what is available from the clipboard. I plotted data from your screenshots, and extended them to min and max values.
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/enygraph.jpg)
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The increase in eny increments of percent/players are not clear. I understand the increase concept, yet the graph still does not define clearly and specifically what values would correspond with percentages as the scale increased.
Or are you saying that the increments are reflected as according to this:
8% larger = no ENY
43% larger = 3.7 ENY
69% larger = 8.4 ENY
85% larger = 13.8 ENY
I was looking for something more specific as to show beginning with 40%= "what eny", 41%="what eny" etc etc..... all the way to the highest eny that can be applied according to corresponding percentage, I assume the known ending eny is 29, I could be wrong there.
What we dont know is the corresponding "%" and eny from 40% to (whatever would give you the hightest applicable eny and greater %)
I hope that isn't too confusing.
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What I'm having a hard time understanding is why do you need specific numbers? Are you planning to have some of your squad switch sides if you can manipulate the ENY hit on your side? Other than curiosity that is the only thing I could think of as to way you are not satisfied with the numbers Murdr gave you.
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What I'm having a hard time understanding is why do you need specific numbers? Are you planning to have some of your squad switch sides if you can manipulate the ENY hit on your side? Other than curiosity that is the only thing I could think of as to way you are not satisfied with the numbers Murdr gave you.
I think what I am asking is a reasonable question.
If your suspicious about my question, that's a personal matter.
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If a countries %total is more than 10 points higher than the smallest countries %total, ENY kicks in. It's the difference in percentage points, not the raw percentages themselves. Any hypothetical can be figured out by reading my graph.
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If a countries %total is more than 10 points higher than the smallest countries %total, ENY kicks in.
What would be the eny assigned for each percentage as the points increased?
Is the eny assigned variable, or fixed per each %total?
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Type these numbers onto a spreadsheet in this order beginning in cell A1 and ending in cell H1:
8 43 69 85 0 3.7 8.4 13.5
Then type this formula:
=TREND(A1:D1,E1:H1,29)
This will give you the % difference between the subject country and the lowest populated country at ENY 29. You can replace the number 29 in the formula with any other number that you want the approximate percent difference on for that ENY.
If you reverse the formula to:
=TREND(E1:H1,A1:D1,100)
You can now approximate the ENY at any percentage difference by changing the number 100 to any percent difference you want.
You can also graph this which will give you all the information you are looking for.
Hope this helps.
Trend analysis is your friend.
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Lusche,
Contrary to your opinion, absolute values is exactly what people are basing their opinions of eny from since this is what they know and see, this is to clarify not only to myself, but to those that do not know specifically how it works. Most people will look at 77 more people on a side would indeed have more of an advantage in a game than 33 more, no matter what the percentage works out to be.
So, please keep opinions out of it, and lets keep to the facts of what this discussion is all about. Just ENY.
I understand that this thread was started elsewhere and moved here. However this is the Help and Training board. This is the only public board on the entire forum where by default, a post by a Trainer should always be assumed to be as in an official capacity as a Trainer. Unlike gameplay, tacticts, or "style" topics, game mechanics are a known quantity. Game mechanics are what they are, and the Trainers put a lot of effort into staying up to date on the many game mechanic systems in AH. I'd appreciate you not suggesting how Trainers should reply on a topic in H&T when you were the one asking for the information to begin with.
Your correct, I have asked for just that, information. Nothing more.
Thank you for being informative and clear with your explanation of this subject without getting off topic.
So, up to this point many of us should have a better understanding of how it works, the only questions that remains is how does the scale progress for each percentage up to the max of 29 eny.
I'm sure there is a scale although I don't know what it is. I suspect it is not linear but rather based on a curve looking at the example I posted above.
I'm sure someone smarter than me could calculate the curve based off of these numbers:
8% larger = no ENY
43% larger = 3.7 ENY
69% larger = 8.4 ENY
85% larger = 13.8 ENY
EDIT: I see your graph below.
The increase in eny increments of percent/players are not clear, however I do understand the concept.
My question specifically would be as shown above. What values would corresponde with percentages as the scale increased?
YOU STILL OWE Lusche and others an Apology, Dadsguns, for your ill thwarted reply, when everyone was offering you help.......
the lasted quoted reply above, is not an apology........if you do not see a reason for you needing to apologize, then you should not have any reason to expect help from anyone / everyone when you need an answer
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I don't think that data string is the way to go, and one data point is off. Will explain when I have keyboard.
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I don't think that data string is the way to go, and one data point is off. Will explain when I have keyboard.
I was just working with the data from the screen shots he posted.
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Just a few more questions.
Q> My question was specifically what value of eny would corresponded with player percentages as the scale increased?
A> This obviousley is not a fixed scale, correct? the values are indeed fixed but slides according to percentages?
% larger = no ENY
43% larger = 3.7 ENY
69% larger = 8.4 ENY
85% larger = 13.8 ENY
When looking at the these two different examples, Where does the 28.5% and the 22.0% derive from, and how does it represent the low number side?
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0 = 8% larger than Bish
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7 = 43% larger than Bish
Example 2. Bishops 72 44 0 40.7% 13.8 = 85% larger than Knights
Knights 39 31 0 22.0% 0.0
Rooks 66 49 0 37.3% 8.4 = 69% larger than Knights
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I have been here for years and am curious to know (I did not play in the warbirds years) what does the acronym stand for?
It cannot be Everyone Needs Yaks
Thanks
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Just a few more questions.
When looking at the these two different examples, Where does the 28.5% and the 22.0% derive from, and how does it represent the low number side?
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0 = 8% larger than Bish
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7 = 43% larger than Bish
Example 2. Bishops 72 44 0 40.7% 13.8 = 85% larger than Knights
Knights 39 31 0 22.0% 0.0
Rooks 66 49 0 37.3% 8.4 = 69% larger than Knights
28.5 and 22.0 represent the % of the total number of players.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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When looking at the these two different examples, Where does the 28.5% and the 22.0% derive from, and how does it represent the low number side?
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0 = 8% larger than Bish
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7 = 43% larger than Bish
Example 2. Bishops 72 44 0 40.7% 13.8 = 85% larger than Knights
Knights 39 31 0 22.0% 0.0
Rooks 66 49 0 37.3% 8.4 = 69% larger than Knights
28.5% and 22% are the amount of the arena population that that country makes up.
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Just a few more questions.
Q> My question was specifically what value of eny would corresponded with player percentages as the scale increased?
A> This obviousley is not a fixed scale, correct? the values are indeed fixed but slides according to percentages?
% larger = no ENY
43% larger = 3.7 ENY
69% larger = 8.4 ENY
85% larger = 13.8 ENY
When looking at the these two different examples, Where does the 28.5% and the 22.0% derive from, and how does it represent the low number side?
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0 = 8% larger than Bish
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7 = 43% larger than Bish
Example 2. Bishops 72 44 0 40.7% 13.8 = 85% larger than Knights
Knights 39 31 0 22.0% 0.0
Rooks 66 49 0 37.3% 8.4 = 69% larger than Knights
Let's get rid of all the stuff in red. It is making this much more difficult than it should really be.
Americans have spent untold months being saturated with polls and election news. When you deal with poll percentages you don't need a calculator to read the results.
Popular vote - 50 states reporting
Candidates % Votes
McCain (R) 46% 56,743,121
Obama (D) 52% 64,427,144
Barr (I) 0% 492,418
Nader (I) 1% 664,470
We can look at the above data and say that Obama beat McCain by 6 points in the popular vote.
We have a poll result in this screenshot...
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k213/nikomon/rookBSenvy.jpg)
Bishops 72 44 0 40.7% 13.8 =Bishops have an 18.7% point roster lead over Knights
Knights 39 31 0 22.0% 0.0
Rooks 66 49 0 37.3% 8.4 =Rooks have a 15.3% point roster lead over Knights
I took both of your screen shots and plotted the three data points of (ENY Limit to % point lead) on that basis. Then I extended the line to the 0 and 29 ENY limit data points...
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/enygraph.jpg)
At a 10% point lead the ENY limit is zero.
For every 1% point over 10, the ENY Limt raises by about 1.59 (If some of you guys who like doing spreadsheets want to narrow the value down further, have at it)
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I have been here for years and am curious to know (I did not play in the warbirds years) what does the acronym stand for?
Thanks for the question, because I wanted to clearify the terms here also.
ENY is a varible HTC assigns to each plane and vehicle. It exists as a component for determining perk points awarded for a kill. It is short for vs ENemY
OBJ is also a varible assigned to planes and vehicles. It exists as a component for determining perk points awarded for destroying objects. It is short for vs OBJects
Country Balancer is the topic of this discussion. It exists to apply a penalty to countries who's roster advantage will have an unbalancing effect on arena gameplay as determined by HTC. It does this by limiting available planes and vehicles based on their ENY value.
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Very nice Murdr.
How is 28.5 factored, this may be where my numbers are not matching,,,,
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7
"28.5 represent the % of the total number of players" What column of numbers are you using to get the total to equal the 28.5%?
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Very nice Murdr.
How is 28.5 factored, this may be where my numbers are not matching,,,,
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7
"28.5 represent the % of the total number of players" What column of numbers are you using to get the total to equal the 28.5%?
First collumn, "Cnt". 178 players out of 625 total in that arena (178+192+255).
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Very nice Murdr.
How is 28.5 factored, this may be where my numbers are not matching,,,,
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7
"28.5 represent the % of the total number of players" What column of numbers are you using to get the total to equal the 28.5%?
30.7% + 40.8% = 71.5%
28.5% + 71.5% = 100%
meaning he is using both 30.7% & 40.8% or as Lusche posted above he is using all Bishops, Rooks and Knights combined CNT then divide
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Very nice Murdr.
How is 28.5 factored, this may be where my numbers are not matching,,,,
Example 1. Bishops 178 127 0 28.5% 0.0
Knights 192 139 0 30.7% 0.0
Rooks 255 185 0 40.8% 3.7
"28.5 represent the % of the total number of players" What column of numbers are you using to get the total to equal the 28.5%?
178+192+255=625 (total arena roster)
178 divided by 625 = .2848 = 28.5% (percent that are bishops)
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Country Balancer
Seems as though this is more sensitive to smaller arena's vice the larger ones using these two examples. Would that be correct?
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Country Balancer
Seems as though this is more sensitive to smaller arena's vice the larger ones using these two examples. Would that be correct?
In some ways yes, as a whole squad loggin in or off could of course make a bigger impact on ENY # on a small arena. But of course it's because it's impact on gameplay is also much bigger in a small arena. Small arenas tend to have bigger ENY fluctations but thats a result of getting unbalanced numbers easier. A 12 player squad loggin in on TT won't change anything. A 10 player squad deciding to log in into EW with a total population of maybe 15 players... ouch! ;)
BTW, there's a minimum population an arena must have before ENY limit kicks in. Unfortunately I can't tell any exact number right now.
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Seems as though this is more sensitive to smaller arena's vice the larger ones using these two examples. Would that be correct?
Yes. But there is also a minimum roster threshhold that an arena must reach before the Country Balancer becomes active. Last I knew of, if the total roster is less than 200 people, Country Balancer is inactive.
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Yes. But there is also a minimum roster threshhold that an arena must reach before the Country Balancer becomes active. Last I knew of, if the total roster is less than 200 people, Country Balancer is inactive.
It must be lower than that, there were 177 in the other example.
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It must be lower than that, there were 177 in the other example.
Ya, consider when a map resets and for the first few minutes there aren't very many players in the arena, but the ENY can max out for one side.
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Rgr that. It started without a minimum. Then a 140 theshold was added. Then it was changed to 200. After that if there was an announcement of a change, I missed it. Though sometimes things get changed when new versions come out and nobody, not even HTC notices it ;)
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Type these numbers onto a spreadsheet in this order beginning in cell A1 and ending in cell H1:
8 43 69 85 0 3.7 8.4 13.5
Then type this formula:
=TREND(A1:D1,E1:H1,29)
This will give you the % difference between the subject country and the lowest populated country at ENY 29. You can replace the number 29 in the formula with any other number that you want the approximate percent difference on for that ENY.
If you reverse the formula to:
=TREND(E1:H1,A1:D1,100)
You can now approximate the ENY at any percentage difference by changing the number 100 to any percent difference you want.
You can also graph this which will give you all the information you are looking for.
Hope this helps.
Trend analysis is your friend.
What do the numbers represent to the left of zero?
8 43 69 85 0
Are you saying that the country balancer will increase as described below in these incriments up to 29? 3.7 8.4 13.5
If so, what would be the missing values between 13.5 and 29?
3.7 8.4 13.5 ??.? ??.? ??.? 29
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Simply put. Understanding how the ENY is calc'd, is like trying to understand why Vista was created.
Just UP what you can, when you can. Score some kills, and have as much fun as possible. :salute
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Yes. But there is also a minimum roster threshhold that an arena must reach before the Country Balancer becomes active. Last I knew of, if the total roster is less than 200 people, Country Balancer is inactive.
I think it is the opposite as total number of players decrease all the way down to bottom number of players (Bish-7 Rook-2 and Knight-3 the ENY balancer is active and much more sensitive to difference in player numbers and of course when the volume of players increase across the three countries such as was seen in the example the opposite is true.
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What do the numbers represent to the left of zero?
8 43 69 85 0
Are you saying that the country balancer will increase as described below in these incriments up to 29? 3.7 8.4 13.5
If so, what would be the missing values between 13.5 and 29?
3.7 8.4 13.5 ??.? ??.? ??.? 29
Those were the numbers from the example. The first 4 numbers were the % difference in population to the lowest country and the last 4 numbers were the resulting ENY.
The formula simply plots these in a straight line and lets you calculate the value of one of these given a set value for the other.
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I think it is the opposite
Umm, I agreed that it is more sensitive to low numbers.
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Umm, I agreed that it is more sensitive to low numbers.
It is.
If the entire arena had 9 people in it, one more person logging in would represent 10% of the population. If it was evenly split at 3-3-3 before that person joined, his country would now have a 33% population advantage over the other two countries.
If the entire arena population was 99 then the next person joining would only represent 1% of the population. If, again, there was an even split at 33-33-33, then the person joining would give his country a 3% edge in population over the other two countries.
I just quoted you to jump in and illustrate.
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So no matter what the percentage is, the increase in increments will always start with: "3.7" the next would be "8.4" next "13.5" "??.?" "??.?" "??.?" to a max of 29?
If so, what would be the missing values between 13.5 and 29?
3.7 8.4 13.5 ??.? ??.? ??.? 29
If not, I would assume that it asssigns a different numerical value? Is this correct?
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So no matter what the percentage is, the increase in increments will always start with: "3.7" the next would be "8.4" next "13.5" "??.?" "??.?" "??.?" to a max of 29?
If so, what would be the missing values between 13.5 and 29?
3.7 8.4 13.5 ??.? ??.? ??.? 29
If not, I would assume that it asssigns a different numerical value? Is this correct?
No no no. Murdr already spelled it out for you. I'm not sure where you've gone amiss in your logic. You aren't getting it. Quoting Murdr above:
For every 1% point over 10% [threshold], the ENY Limt raises by about 1.59
1) ENY kicks in when your countries population is 10% greater than the lowest country's population.
2) At this threshold for every 1% population increase above the lowest country's population ENY value gets increased by 1.59
e.g. your country is at 11% greater than the lowest country's population, ENY would be 1.59, at 12% greater, ENY would be 1.59+1.59= 3.18, at 13% greater, ENY would be 1.59+1.59+1.59=4.77, etc.
So you want to figure out what the % difference results in a 3.7 ENY? Do the math backwards. 1%/1.59 = x%/3.7. x=2.3%. Add this back to 10%. 10%+2.3% = 12.3%.
You can check this against the numbers posted in your pic. Rooks = 40.8%. Bishops = 28.5%. Rooks% - Bishop% = 40.8 - 28.5 = 12.3% resulting in a 3.7 ENY.
EDIT:
You can also apply this to your 2nd pic as a check. Rooks= 37.3%. Knights= 22%. Rooks%-Knights%= 37.3-22 = 15.3%. 15.3%-10% = 5.3%. 5.3%*1.59= voila 8.4 ENY for the Rooks just like the pic shows.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Just to expand on dtango's reply. It doesn't go in increments per se. For every 0.1 point over a 10.0 point advantage, the ENY limit will rise a little bit more. That's why I said you can figure out any hypothetical with this graph.
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/murdr/enygraph.jpg)
Lets try a hypothetical...
Country %total
Bishop 25.0%
Knight 49.0%
Rook 26.0%
So knights have a 24 point advantage on bishop. Find where the 24 vertical line intercects the green line. Read where that is on left side scale. It reads at just over a 22 ENY limit.
Rooks have a 1 point advantage on bishop. On the graph the green line is at 0 so there's no ENY limit.
OR
You can used the formula I posted For every 1% point over 10% [threshold], the ENY Limt raises by about 1.59
24 point - 10 = 14 points (14*1.59)= 22.3 ENY limit.
The numbers by the green line on the graph are just the data points I happened to use to generate the line plot. If I had known they would be a confusing issue I'd have removed them.
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So no matter what the percentage is, the increase in increments will always start with: "3.7" the next would be "8.4" next "13.5" "??.?" "??.?" "??.?" to a max of 29?
If so, what would be the missing values between 13.5 and 29?
3.7 8.4 13.5 ??.? ??.? ??.? 29
If not, I would assume that it asssigns a different numerical value? Is this correct?
What Murdr and dtango said.
The missing values are any values you want along the trend line. 3.7 8.4 13.5 are simply values from a real world example (yours) that allow you to plot the line, which Murdr has done for you.
The trend analysis formula I posted simply lets you calculate what one value is based on the other without having to create a graph, but now you have one.
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Thank you for your patience in explaining this in detail, I am sure that for the majority of people that have followed along have a much better grasp of how dynamic this process is.
From most of what I seen in previous posts about explanations of how this worked, they just were not as informative as this one has been for me., I feel like I have a good understanding now of how it works and how it is applied and I am sure others would agree.
Thanks again for your time. :salute
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:rolleyes:
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:rolleyes:
What does this mean, it looks like a attempt to be a sarcastic about a perfectly legitimate questions and on the intelligent and informational response's as well.
Do us all favor do not post if you can't be helpful.
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What does this mean, it looks like a attempt to be a sarcastic about a perfectly legitimate questions and on the intelligent and informational response's as well.
Do us all favor do not post if you can't be helpful.
Just wondered how many pictures they would have to draw for the unappreciative twit.
Do me a favor & don't post anything if you can't be helpfull either :rock
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Just wondered how many pictures they would have to draw for the unappreciative twit.
Do me a favor & don't post anything if you can't be helpfull either :rock
I don't figure how you get "unappreciative twit" out of this thread. Looks to me he got a lot out of it, and I think it was great of Murdr BaldEagl, and others for taking their time explaining it. A big :salute to them. Then again I read the entire thread...and then again here you come TROLLING along.
But then again that's my opinion,
Fred
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I think Murdr & others went way above & beyond the call on this one & was met with snide remarks & disrespect for all of his trouble. Perhaps you didn't read all of the posts.
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Actually I did read each and every post, and the snide remarks went both ways, (in my opinion).... They then started acting as adults and respectively resolved the issue.
As for them going above and beyond, I agree completely, isn't that what, at times, makes this a great community?
I thought the thread ended well with the one side being able to offer an explanation that the other could understand. I believe it was just yesterday when someone on our squad started complaining about eny, and Boss directed him to this thread to so they could completely understand how the process works.
The following post was made by Dads, so I still don't get how you believe he is an "unappreciative twit". This was the post directly above your first post.
Thank you for your patience in explaining this in detail, I am sure that for the majority of people that have followed along have a much better grasp of how dynamic this process is.
From most of what I seen in previous posts about explanations of how this worked, they just were not as informative as this one has been for me., I feel like I have a good understanding now of how it works and how it is applied and I am sure others would agree.
Thanks again for your time. :salute
But then again, I'm expressing my opinion.
Fred
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:rolleyes:
Just wondered how many pictures they would have to draw for the unappreciative twit.
Do me a favor & don't post anything if you can't be helpfull either :rock
I think Murdr & others went way above & beyond the call on this one & was met with snide remarks & disrespect for all of his trouble. Perhaps you didn't read all of the posts.
I really don't know how to respond to your negative and ignorant remarks, but since you are in the mood of calling someone a name you obviously live by, I feel obligated to share a thought with you.
First, I didn't see anywhere in this string for your input and unwarranted comments. It also appears that the only "twit" that commented negatively in this post was you.
Here is something helpful for you live by in your make believe world... Practice what you preach.
Besides, I could care less what you think and by no means will you hamper what I say or anyone else says on this BBS if its something you find hard to swallow.
The reality of it is, you have no meaning to anyone but yourself. Here is your 2 bits troll, now crawl under that bridge you crawled out from and enjoy your meaningless existence.
:D
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Actually I did read each and every post, and the snide remarks went both ways, (in my opinion)....
Please clearify this remark for me :)
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Please clearify this remark for me :)
Not trying to be "snide" here, and I really don't want to bring up something that someone else my not have perceived to be the same thing. At the end of my post I clearly stated "in my opinion".
I will go this far. As I read the posts I did get the preception of one (some) being a bit snide. I perceived this on both sides of the issue. Again I will state this is my opinion.
If you do not agree with my opinion, then so be it, but I like anyone else on this forum am entitled to have one. Please don't take this as a smart arse remark, because it is not my intent for it to be that way. :)
I still give you and staff a big :salute explaining something that I really never understood. .
My opinion again.
Fred
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If you do not agree with my opinion, then so be it, but I like anyone else on this forum am entitled to have one.
:aok