Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: uptown on December 04, 2008, 07:38:47 AM
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What 109 is the best around fighter and why? :salute
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Simply put:
109f is the turner
109g2 is all around
109g14 is a more powerful g2, vert fighter
109k4 is the most powerful, great E fighter and great in the vertical.
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And the G6 is for men. :aok
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I agree that the 109G-2 is the best all-around 109. Here's why:
It's fast, 342mph on the deck.
It climbs like a home-sick angel.
It turns well enough to mix it up (though it's not a stall fighter).
The 109F-4 is better for furballing, though it's slower and doesn't climb as well.
The 109G-14 is a better energy fighter. It's faster, climbs better, and has extra punch with the upgraded 12.7mm cowl mg's.
The 109K-4 is a different bird because of the 30mm tater gun. You have to rethink your gunnery habits and change your tactics to be successful with it.
Here's the issue:
How to get a 450mph high wingloading aircraft within 200 yards of a target when the controls get heavy from overspeeding in normal level flight? :D
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And the G6 is for men. :aok
Only the practitioners of guile and subterfuge need apply for the G-6. ;)
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And the G6 is for men. :aok
And so is the E4.
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Only the practitioners of guile and subterfuge need apply for the G-6. ;)
:lol
And so is the E4.
A blast for sure, but kind of limited overall, by speed, roll rate, and firepower though. Fun arse early bird though.
They are all fun and capable Uptown. Have fun with your project.
Throttle control in a dive, You'll learn that quick ;)
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Throttle control in a dive, You'll learn that quick ;)
And manual elevator trim.
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Only the practitioners of guile and subterfuge need apply for the G-6. ;)
Please elaborate :)
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And manual elevator trim.
Yes, the K button will save your airframe untold hundreds of merges with the ground.
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maybe its just me, I have flown the 109s in the past, at the start of this tour I was like screw it leave the hurri home, take out the 109f, it is a very nice plane, but there is something about those german birds that I just dont like, maybe its the views or lack therof, I still got 6 killz in it that first day, not to bad,but not great by any means, well last night I said screw it again and left the 109 home and took out my Hurri-O-deth, in about the same amount of time,(maybe a little more) switching sides to fight the hourd, flying the way I fly.
I took 32 sculpts in that Hurri,I cant understand why I have such better results in the Hurri, I chalk to the cannons(allthough i dont use it as a HO machine) and turning ability of the Hurri, and maybe a better than avarge SA on my part,and the fact that I have spent most of my AH career in one, getting to know it in every aspect.
point is Pick a plane, get to know it like the "back of your hand"
I guess I am a Hurri dweeb :D
good luck and have fun<S>
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What 109 is the best around fighter and why? :salute
A 109g2 is best in terms of all round performance on paper. In reality the majority of the used planeset in the MA will have the speed to run and stay out of range of effective guns. The mgs are pretty much useless unless your close in and can put a lot of hits on target. I prefare the g6 to the g2 better rear views and effective mgs even on paper theres not much of a difference performance wise. It doesnt really feel like theres too much difference flying them eithier for some reason theres a stigma attached to them that they are a difficult plane to fly.
Best 109 all round imo is the k4 if you can make a habit of constantly flying it too its limits and learn some acm there isnt a lot you cant do with it.
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A 109g2 is best in terms of all round performance on paper. In reality the majority of the used planeset in the MA will have the speed to run and stay out of range of effective guns. The mgs are pretty much useless unless your close in and can put a lot of hits on target. I prefare the g6 to the g2 better rear views and effective mgs even on paper theres not much of a difference performance wise. It doesnt really feel like theres too much difference flying them eithier for some reason theres a stigma attached to them that they are a difficult plane to fly.
Best 109 all round imo is the k4 if you can make a habit of constantly flying it too its limits and learn some acm there isnt a lot you cant do with it.
IMO the G2 is easier and more balanced than the G6. The G2 can load up gondolas and not be penalized too heavily for it (there is still a penalty), especially compared to the other 109s in the game that have a gondolas option. The G2 is the only 109 I would take off loaded with gondolas with the intention of fighting other fighters, or never hesitate getting into a furball with the gondolas on because I was originally intending to only buff hunt.
I agree though that the G6 is similar to the G2 and a good plane, until you throw on the gondolas... I guess the G2 was just designed to handle them while the G6 feels like you just kicked it below the belt when you throw them on the wings, and in that aspect I regard the G2 as a better plane.
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IMO the G2 is easier and more balanced than the G6. The G2 can load up gondolas and not be penalized too heavily for it (there is still a penalty), especially compared to the other 109s in the game that have a gondolas option. The G2 is the only 109 I would take off loaded with gondolas with the intention of fighting other fighters, or never hesitate getting into a furball with the gondolas on because I was originally intending to only buff hunt.
I agree though that the G6 is similar to the G2 and a good plane, until you throw on the gondolas... I guess the G2 was just designed to handle them while the G6 feels like you just kicked it below the belt when you throw them on the wings, and in that aspect I regard the G2 as a better plane.
Would a g2 with gondolas handle as well a g6 without them? point is a g2s gun package is weak enough to necessitate needed them a g6 has a much more effective gun package so gondolas arent really needed.
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Would a g2 with gondolas handle as well a g6 without them? point is a g2s gun package is weak enough to necessitate needed them a g6 has a much more effective gun package so gondolas arent really needed.
They aren't really needed on the G2 either and cause more parasitic drag than they are worth.
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the G2 is easier to fly.. but.. when flown right the G6 is much better, assuming both G2 and G6 are flown without the gun pods. Of course only in my opinion that is.
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G-2 has better front view than the later ones, which have the MG bulges blocking far too much of the front view. G-2 is nimble, but I would not take gondolas on it, unless you fly with friends or are a crack shooter. With gondolas you will find it hard to get entangled in a furball or when you want to disengage.
If you want to go after buffs, you will want the gondolas. Then take G-14. It has the power to carry them. You just need to avoid the hardest turn fights and fly more conservatively.
Above comments in Late War Arena context.
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And so is the E4.
The E-4 is good for 2 kills vs all comers in the LWA. It's surprisingly capable of holding its own vs the late war rides....
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109G2...
It turns well enough to mix it up (though it's not a stall fighter).
Oh, but I beg to differ.
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Lot of good info here, Thanks fellas
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Well this morning I took the G6 out for a spin and really liked the way it handled. But, the guns suck IMO. I took the 20mm gun package, 50% and DT. Converengence set at 400 and dove in on a set of lancs, started firing at 600 from high 6, and it took me 2 passes for each bomber to bring them down. The same approach in a 51 and I can down them on 1st pass almost everytime.(convergence @300)
But on the upside, I found the G6 to man handle a spit16, although spit pilot was somewhat noobish. I didn't kill him but he ran away with a bloody nose :D I think tomorrow i'll try the G14 out. :salute
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50% and DT.
The drop tank rack slows you down, even after you've dropped the tank. Take 100% and no DT.
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The drop tank rack slows you down, even after you've dropped the tank. Take 100% and no DT.
Thank you. Will do :salute
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DT rack only does -8mph on the k4. If it allows me a longer, or better fight, I take it.
I don't need that 8mph faster top speed.
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Took them all out today and I think my favorites are this in order.
F4 is a lot of fun, a little slow compared but turns the best
Next would be the G2 with and without gonz and the G14 without seems to do everything well.
The G6 I had trouble with for some reason. Seemed a little sluggish to me compared to the others. Only gave each of them one shot tho.
Think I'll look up an old Agent 360 post and read up on them a bit.
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Took them all out today and I think my favorites are this in order.
F4 is a lot of fun, a little slow compared but turns the best
Next would be the G2 with and without gonz and the G14 without seems to do everything well.
The G6 I had trouble with for some reason. Seemed a little sluggish to me compared to the others. Only gave each of them one shot tho.
Think I'll look up an old Agent 360 post and read up on them a bit.
You know, this is interesting to me... I also have been fairly happy with the F4 (more since I have learned to hold the trigger a bit longer)... I'm still interested in the G2 with and without the gondolas, from my experiences... But I have had little luck with the G6 (with or without the gondolas). The G14 has been pretty positive for me with the 20mm hub cannon...
Interesting that the G6 seemed to be the breaking point. I have so little experience with the 109s that a similar experience with the G6 makes me wonder what is different about the G6 that I'm not understanding?
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Converengence set at 400 and dove in on a set of lancs, started firing at 600 from high 6, and it took me 2 passes for each bomber to bring them down. The same approach in a 51 and I can down them on 1st pass almost everytime.(convergence @300)
Ballistics are completely different in the German planes. You'll get used to it.
I set convergence to 650 and can take a buff out from 800 with either the 20 or 30mm.
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Interesting that the G6 seemed to be the breaking point. I have so little experience with the 109s that a similar experience with the G6 makes me wonder what is different about the G6 that I'm not understanding?
The G-6 is most like the G-2 than any other 109. Its firepower is improved, but in every other respect it's a little bit worse because of the drag penalty from the cowl bulges. It's a little slower, the climbrate is reduced, it doesn't turn quite as well, etc.
My guess is that the G-6 is more challenging because there's no one thing it does particularly well, but then it's not a total loser in any category, either. More than any other 109, you have to make good choices and use correct ACM to get kills and survive. Why is that? Well, you're flying an early '43 aircraft against the whole planeset. In the arena it's advantageous to be in a plane the turns really well, one that's fast, or even better, both. Notice the success of the Hurri II in the main arena. On paper, it's outclassed because its only trumps are turning circle and hizookas, but in an arena environment which does not simulate WW2 combat that's enough. The G-6 is neither one of the fastest nor one of the most maneuverable. It's an in-between purgatory, and if that weren't enough, you have to be a good shot, too.
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There are really only 2 planes to learn =p the 109s and the 190. Well there's teh 110 for ground pounding and tnb too! so 3!
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Think of the 109's as three sets of totally different aircraft; the E4 and F4 are the turn fighters, the G2 and G6 are the jacks of all trades and the G-14 and K-4 are the E fighters. The differences between each in their respective classes are not as great as moving from one class to another although one is always a bigger challenge than the other.
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They're all very similar, almost like you learn 1 you can fly em all.
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I love the k-4 I just have a hard time aiming the thing.. My next choice is the g-14 with the 20mm gun package..I believe the 109's in general are fun because of the challenge...Although there are people out there that can own with the thing. They have sure put there time into learning them..Also I like the E better than the -f that thing is just a blast... :salute
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Would a g2 with gondolas handle as well a g6 without them? point is a g2s gun package is weak enough to necessitate needed them a g6 has a much more effective gun package so gondolas arent really needed.
Compared to the Es (especially) and Fs, the G2's gun package w/o gondolas is quite adequate. IMO, all 109s have enough ammo w/o gondolas if you get experienced enough with them to know you have an asinine amount of cowl gun ammo compared to your limited and precious few cannon rounds (which I save for real good shots at short bursts). If you shoot like that, then a G2 w/ gondolas is penalized by flying with them equipped, but I think you will find it's lethality with that package is more than adequate (again, shooting cannon ammo very conservatively).
If you're comforitable shooting w/o gondolas then you might as well fly one of the later models that do very well w/o them on. But I still feel the the G6 and beyond was the beginning of the 109's being very picky about what speed you were doing maneuvers at (with or without gondolas). They handle well, but if your going too fast or too slow when doing a particular maneuver it can be a fatal move in a dogfight.
G-2 has better front view than the later ones, which have the MG bulges blocking far too much of the front view. G-2 is nimble, but I would not take gondolas on it, unless you fly with friends or are a crack shooter. With gondolas you will find it hard to get entangled in a furball or when you want to disengage.
If you want to go after buffs, you will want the gondolas. Then take G-14. It has the power to carry them. You just need to avoid the hardest turn fights and fly more conservatively.
Above comments in Late War Arena context.
I've had a blast in a G2 in the LWA w/ gondolas in furballs, flying in the same conservative way you suggest flying the G14, you just need to remember you have the extra drag and fly to conserve your energy.
But, I still don't like taking gondolas for buff hunting with the G14. I prefer the 30mm for G14 buff hunting (with maybe a DT, but no gondolas), and I prefer a G14 with the large 20mm package for dogfights (a lot more firing time than a 30mm, plus if you use it conservatively for good shots, the 20mm is adequate for taking off wings in a couple shots. no DT or gondolas). Kinda related, but kinda off topic, I really wish the K-4 had a high-ammo 20mm cannon package sometimes for the same reasons above, I really really do.
Well this morning I took the G6 out for a spin and really liked the way it handled. But, the guns suck IMO. I took the 20mm gun package, 50% and DT. Converengence set at 400 and dove in on a set of lancs, started firing at 600 from high 6, and it took me 2 passes for each bomber to bring them down. The same approach in a 51 and I can down them on 1st pass almost everytime.(convergence @300)
But on the upside, I found the G6 to man handle a spit16, although spit pilot was somewhat noobish. I didn't kill him but he ran away with a bloody nose :D I think tomorrow i'll try the G14 out. :salute
If I'm going buff hunting specifically and want a later cannon heavy German fighter, then I take up a Ta-152H (technically a 190 variant, but it rules for buff hunting).
I've found that DTs on 109s are never a good thing unless you're buff hunting or really need the extra fuel (100% fuel is the way to go most of the time, in rare cases where I'm scrambling from an airfield into a nearby furball at 2-5K, then I take one with 50-75% fuel). I've also found that 9/10 times when I'm considering taking gondolas on my 109 for X reason, I'm considering the wrong plane type for that sortie. I go back to the beginning of the thought process and consider if the 109x with gondolas is really the right plane for the sortie I'm considering.
Regarding convergence, the 109s are the only plane in AH I think I set the cannon at a drastically different convergence than the cowl gun's convergence in each plane. On the G2 and earlier, my cowls are around 175-125, and my 20mm cannon to 225-200. On the later models, my cowls are around 200 give or take and my cannons around 300-250.
The cowls are already mounted pretty close together on the nose and have great ballistics, and especially with the earlier smaller caliber cowl guns, they really only do damage at closer ranges and in a nice tight grouping. If you're shooting your cowls into a wing for more than 3 solid seconds at 200-400 yards, then start messing with your convergences, because I can vouch that the cowl guns are lethal when properly converged and used at the proper ranges in bursts.
The cannons are a totally different bird for the 109s than the cowls, other than they are placed close to the cowls on the nose. 109s feature either the 20mm MG/FF (with only 60 rounds and horrible ballistics and rate of fire :furious ), the 20mm Mg151 (plenty of ammo with 150 or 200 rounds, best ballistics of any German 109 cannons IMO and the fastest rate of fire :aok ), or the much feared 30mm Mk108 (only 65 rounds and a slow rate of fire, and ballisticaly it's better than a 20mm MG/FF IMO, but still pretty bad). Each handles differently, and really the best practice/feel you can get for the first time is to go in offline mode and unload them each a couple times into some drones without any cowl guns.
If I'm confusing more than helping, please let me know, I have a habit of writing walls of text when I don't intend to.
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If I'm confusing more than helping, please let me know, I have a habit of writing walls of text when I don't intend to.
Blabbalong? :noid :aok
FWIW - they took out the best 109 in the series when then removed the gondies from the F... :cry
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Blabbalong? :noid :aok
FWIW - they took out the best 109 in the series when then removed the gondies from the F... :cry
Why must you make me laugh and cry in the same post. :cry
(j/k, but yeah, where did those gondies go? :furious )
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They're all very similar, almost like you learn 1 you can fly em all.
No they aren't.
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Yeah, I don't know what Yenny is thinking there. From my very limited seat time in german iron, I find the E & F models completely different from the G14s and K4s. :salute