Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sonicblu on January 14, 2009, 10:13:28 PM
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I would like to see a time or event maybe an arena with the icons turned off.
The pilots would have to have much better SA. Communication and skill.
I can just see it now. A guy diving in for the pick only to get " friendly kill shot " by shooting his own country's plane out of the sky.
One of the things that makes the pick so easy is the icons. Most guys would think twice before picking because they would have to get close enough to see what kind of plane they were shooting at not just an Icon.
I think a lot of the complaints of the game that i see on the BBS and in game would be helped greatly.
A big help would be to at least remove what type of plane it is. So it would take a first merge just to figure it out.
Most of all game play would improve.
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to go along with that.... :O night flight.
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THought you left! :rofl
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im trying its hard!!! :cry
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im trying its hard!!! :cry
And it gets harder every day. :D
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Most of all game play would improve.
No, it wont.
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Lack of icons rewards those with a better computer/higher resolution.
It will never happen, HTC would lose too many customers.
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First of all, as has been pointed out before, no icons simulates legally blind pilots.
Second, you lost me when you said no icons would *decrease* the very historical pick/bounce/surprise you're dead! type attacks. Uh, no. They would go from being 50% of kills to 95%. I have played "Il2" online sans icons and this is exactly what you get.
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I would like to see a time or event maybe an arena with the icons turned off.
The pilots would have to have much better SA. Communication and skill.
I can just see it now. A guy diving in for the pick only to get " friendly kill shot " by shooting his own country's plane out of the sky.
One of the things that makes the pick so easy is the icons. Most guys would think twice before picking because they would have to get close enough to see what kind of plane they were shooting at not just an Icon.
I think a lot of the complaints of the game that i see on the BBS and in game would be helped greatly.
A big help would be to at least remove what type of plane it is. So it would take a first merge just to figure it out.
Most of all game play would improve.
ya.....'cause that'd work sooo well for those of us flying on tiny monitors.
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I've flown no icons in another game and it is intensely fun.
But there are a very few people who would enjoy it.
It requires a completely different attitude.
I like it but I don't think it would ever be popular with more than a handful of players.
The fights are completely different, very much like what you see described in books. The dogfights tend to be fought at much closer ranges without icons and its easy to have a suddenly empty sky.
Its also much easier to bug out of a fight, much like real life.
Its a lot closer to real world fights and that is 90% of the problem. In the real world its damn hard to find another airplane in a sky full of them.
No icons is not for the masses. Heck, I love them but I don't think I would want a steady diet of it anymore. I like my neon targeting computer way too much now.
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One of my squaddies "always" plays without icon, he loves it, dont know how he does it though
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Sonic, in case you are not aware, alt-i will allow you to cycle through icon options, allowing you to remove both friendly and/or enemy icons if you so wish...
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I wish that too, but i know its only a wish.to see that in the MA Enemy icons off - friendly icons on. The game would improved by 100%
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can you imagine the Whine if it happened? I do agree that it would be cool in some instances though, maybe a snapshot or AvA. Another note, it was nice flying in the dark during Weds. Snapshot........but man am I glad we had the icons. ;)
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I've made this very suggestion about a year ago. Here's the problem. The visual in virtual reality is not nearly as good as in reality.
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GV icons should be off,
Don't see why planes should have the benefit of a neon sign when GV's don't on the ground. They are still easy to spot from the air without it.
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yes Bruv I'd like that to be turned off I mean we GVers hate those carpet bombers :P
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The more people that turn off their icon views the better.. just dont ask me to do the same. Im handicapped enough as it is :lol
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Nope just turn off Planes capability to see GV's when flying over well they icons atleast :devil
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ya.....'cause that'd work sooo well for those of us flying on tiny monitors.
*WARNING* pre-coffee posting
Don't worry, your woman says it's big enough for her. :devil
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GV icons should be off,
Don't see why planes should have the benefit of a neon sign when GV's don't on the ground. They are still easy to spot from the air without it.
Plane icons for GV'ers must be off. Planes are far easily to spot from the ground then GVs from air. :noid
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I wish that too, but i know its only a wish.to see that in the MA Enemy icons off - friendly icons on. The game would improved by 100%
I agree with this. I think it would add to better SA. As far as the small monitors, define "tiny". I flew with a 17" monitor for the last 2 years. Just upgraded to a 22" flat recently. Is there a difference in my flying......not that I can tell. I still die just as easy. It's just bigger pieces flying off my plane.
Obie
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(http://www.netaces.org/TEMP/plane-x-300.gif)
Here is a plane at a mere 300 yards. What is it? Is it friend or foe? Now, think back to any airshow you've been to. You can tell what a plane is from 300 yards with ease. Think about driving down the highway and how far ahead you can tell the difference between cars, trucks, semis, etc. There is no way that no icons on a computer screen is anywhere close to real life capability.
Regards,
Hammer
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Enemy Off and Friendly on (long range) isn't much fun. It actually decreases your SA and reaction time in a fight. The Neon is very distracting when in a swirling dogfight with a bandit with no icon and you keep seeing friendly icons that aren't in your fight.
No enemy and short range friendly (400 yards) is the ideal setting with the currently available icon system. I determined this through some fairly scientific analysis. 400 yards is the distance you can read the tail markings on a B17.
As for the monitor not being representative of reality, it is true in a very limited way but it is a lot closer to reality than people care to admit.
The lapse in performance comes between 300 and 1500 yards. All other ranges its darn close to what you would see in real life.
I've done the legwork to prove that to myself.
A new icon system that preserves the nature of real world fights while correcting the limitations of the monitor would be an amazing thing but I don't think there is an impetus to do anything of the sort. Players don't have much interest in that sort of thing.
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A new icon system that preserves the nature of real world fights while correcting the limitations of the monitor would be an amazing...
This I agree with. I've often thought we should get limited info at long range - maybe a "1E" identifying the plane as a single engine type along with "2E" and "4E". You could then progress to plane type etc as range decreased. If you really wanted to get fancy, the range you get the plane type could be dependant on the viewing angle.
You must also consider depth perception. It's impossible to determine if a pixel is moving towards you or away from you while, IRL, it is easy to tell if something is moving towards or away from you from great distances.
There are possibilities besides what we have now, but off is, IMHO, far less realistic than what we have now.
Regards,
Hammer
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Lack of icons rewards those with a better computer/higher resolution.
It will never happen, HTC would lose too many customers.
Yeah but only for 1 event, i think it will be fun, more real and will really take team work in communication
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I wish that too, but i know its only a wish.to see that in the MA Enemy icons off - friendly icons on. The game would improved by 100%
ONLY for those of you that can fly on larger monitors. what are those of us that fly on 19" monitors supposed to do? heck, at 1,000 yards, i have to zoom in to see what you're doing. unless i wanna wait till you've already turned into me, at which point it's too late. even at 500 yards, i'm zoomed some to take the shot.
it's best left as is. if you want icons off, then you can cycle through the options.
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Yeah! What he said!!!
I've made this very suggestion about a year ago. Here's the problem. The visual in virtual reality is not nearly as good as in reality.
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Hell I'm using a 15" monitor that was given to me an I am zoomed up to about 300-500 yards. It all depends on the plane type. And since there is a command to cycle through the icons just turn yours off.
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I've been using a 15" monitor too for the past 1 1/2 years since my previous monitor died, it has maximum resolution of 1024 x 768, woowoo! :D No zooming in for me though except against gv's, I don't know how people zoom in to aim at aicraft, it feels plane weird for me.
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I agree with this. I think it would add to better SA. As far as the small monitors, define "tiny". I flew with a 17" monitor for the last 2 years. Just upgraded to a 22" flat recently. Is there a difference in my flying......not that I can tell. I still die just as easy. It's just bigger pieces flying off my plane.
Obie
by bigger monitors, i mean these guys flying on 40"+ monitors. i recall even seeing one that uses a projector, thus giving him an 8' "screen".
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Since we fly a mix of Axis and Allied fighters you would still need a way of determining enemy and friendly. Suppose your wingman in a pony gets jumped by someone in a pony (with the same skin). I don't know if its possible but maybe subtle shading differences in friendly and enemy on the control surfaces to help ID might make it doable without icons. (what if you could spend some perks to see the names of the enemy instead of just the plane type??)
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Hate to say this but Icons off would be worthless seeing we have the capability of flying THE SAME PLANE OR USING THE SAME GV.
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I was thinking a no icon game might be interesting to try in a Axis vs. Allies type scenario. You'd have to get up to speed real fast on aircraft recognition to play that game.
You might be able to pull something like that off in the Axis vs. Allies arena.
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The other thing is that with Icons turned off, you won't know who your friendlies are due to the same country using axis/allied aircraft.
Maybe in AvA where its allies v axis might work.
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Icons make up for the inherent lack of depth perception you get from playing a 3d game on a 2d medium, also there is AH's graphic shortfalls for example dark planes against dark backgrounds/water (a topic which has been brought up) that cause aircraft to blend in a little too well with the background I.E. a dark plane flying over water in game can be damn near invisible at only D200 while in real life you would be able to see it just fine.
there are other factors as well of course but even just those 2 are enough to make Icons a needed measure.
I do however wish that you could make the designation I.E. "P51D" disappear once you get withing say D400 or so, leaving only the distance marker. that's just personal wish though
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Obviously no icons only works in an historical setup.
But modified icons that only indicate friend or foe would be welcome in the MA IMO.
A subtle glow around the aircraft at appropriate ranges would be awesome. Getting rid of the range altogether and aircraft type outside of realistic ranges would be nice.
And have the plane ID switch tied to aircraft size (and aspect if possible) would be awesome.
As an example a P51 and 109 silhouette look identical at twice the distance. Basically, a 109 at 2000 feet looks just like a P51 at 4000 feet away. A good icon system would switch on aircraft type at twice the range for a pony as a 109. (This is just an example. Aircraft ID should be tied to aircraft size is my point)
Another example is the difference in planform and side aspect. The P38 is the most vivid example. In planform it is easily identifiable at very long range but in side or front aspect it virtually disappears. But I imagine coding icons for aspect would be quite a challenge.
I've typed all this at least 100 times before and I absolutely know I am wasting my time doing it yet here I am. Typing it again.
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I was thinking a no icon game might be interesting to try in a Axis vs. Allies type scenario. You'd have to get up to speed real fast on aircraft recognition to play that game.
You might be able to pull something like that off in the Axis vs. Allies arena.
The other thing is that with Icons turned off, you won't know who your friendlies are due to the same country using axis/allied aircraft.
Maybe in AvA where its allies v axis might work.
uhhhh..... no.
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The other thing is that with Icons turned off, you won't know who your friendlies are due to the same country using axis/allied aircraft.
Maybe in AvA where its allies v axis might work.
The AvA is the place to try stuff like this but I wouldn't hold my breath.
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There are more than one arena so they can roll out any change and see the results.
As far as Icons... I would like to see something more creative with aircraft icons. As a compromise to gameplay I don't think friendly icons should change. With eny, long range depth perception could be handled with distance dependent "dot" colors. For example, 3-6k = grey dot, under 3 it stays black. Once you get within 800k or so you should be able to id type as a real pilot would. There are tons of things that could be done to keep the game interesting. If something does not work out then go back and try something else. Making no changes is just a slow bleed of interest.
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The icon is one of two ways to ID a con since allied may be fighting alled aircraft. Of course the second is if he shoots at you.
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There are more than one arena so they can roll out any change and see the results.
As far as Icons... I would like to see something more creative with aircraft icons. As a compromise to gameplay I don't think friendly icons should change. With eny, long range depth perception could be handled with distance dependent "dot" colors. For example, 3-6k = grey dot, under 3 it stays black. Once you get within 800k or so you should be able to id type as a real pilot would. There are tons of things that could be done to keep the game interesting. If something does not work out then go back and try something else. Making no changes is just a slow bleed of interest.
Interesting idea, but the geezers and colorblind folks may have a hard time figuring out what's going on.
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We used to have a couple of "no icons" events in the past on some snapshots with historical planesets. Although most of the action took place inside on sector, mostly around the Jabo target, it was too tough to be fun.
Another question: How big is a "big" monitor? My 24" widescreen is the biggest I have ever had so far, but I still can't tell a flowerpot fly from a dot without icons. Not to mention, that I have a microfibre cloth within reach to wipe off every dot looking dust particle.
I don't say that this icon system we now have is perfect, but compensates the lack of 3D reality on this 2D surface. And it is quite adjustable too.
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I fly with a 24 widescreen too. I have a 28 widescreen at the shop but don't use it on Ah.
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:lol The old game of is that a con or a spot of dust on my monitor.
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Interesting idea, but the geezers and colorblind folks may have a hard time figuring out what's going on.
If you are color blind you will have no problem with grey scale. Maybe folks will hotkey that zoom a bit more.. I find it handy already as I'm setting up an approach. If you think about it, starting lighter grey and moving to dark/black is consistent with something getting closer so it should be pretty intuitive even if you don't read the help files.
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Hmmm, Some got it others did not.
We still have radar to know where eny are.
I would be fine with a modified icon system get rid of range and plane type would improve some aspects of game play imo.
Or leave range and plane type, and turn off red icon.
BTW i know you can turn off and on the icons. I don't pick from 20 k though I,m talking about the pilots that bnz. It makes it easy for them to pick out icons at a long range to pick over and over again as soon as they loose sight they would have to reevaluate the situation before making the next run. However now they just see a low 109 at 6k and jump it again. MY thoughts are that if the icons were modified or off and they lose sight by climbing back up out of sight and start to come back down and now see three planes one of which is a eny con two are friendlies they are going to have to make some better choices. So the dont blow them selves out of the sky by friendly kill shot.
Some of you made my exact point if they don't know and aren't communicating with pilots on their side they will blow themselves out of the sky by shooting their own team mate. Leave kill shoot on.
The ground doesn't have and icon nor does it need it I auger all the time and don't complain. It was my fault.
You shoot your bud out of the sky you deserve to die.
Yes we would see more squad type flying with the same plane types.
I get tired of getting picked by some bnz cherry picker because he can see my icon.
The pilot has to make a different set of choices when he is over a base with 20 cons and 20 friendlies not just
pick the red icons.
Turning on the icons at close range only, would help a little.
Hey guys I still like the game and enjoy playing overall. Its is lame some nights more that others though.
Just some suggestions
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A soft colored halo outlining the airplane (red or green) ID's friend or foe and resolves the blending into the background issues.
No distance marker ever. A variable rate flashing -/+ to indicate closure direction and relative velocity.
Id plane type at a range determined by aircraft size. Just take the smallest airframe in the game (109 I think is smallest) and scale ID distances out from that baseline. A 109 size airplane can be reliably identified at about 6000 feet in planform. Bigger is further.
Answers all the concerns of hardware differences and is much more realistic than the current system
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A 109 size airplane can be reliably identified at about 6000 feet in planform.
What is the source for this distance? Anecdotal evidence suggests identification at much more than 1 1/4 miles with much less than a planform angle. Of course, knowing what the bad guys are flying helps identify things early, and there is also real and anecdotal evidence of pilots mis-identifying planes within gun range. I've never seen anything definitive and it's always an interesting discussion on this topic!
Regards,
Hammer
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Ive posted in three differant threads and I believe it all comes down to Respect...... There is a lack of respect that you must have if pilots are going to have some 1v1 fights. Changing the icons would not force a more respectfull desision It would just make it harder for....lets be honest........90+% of the players...... Its only going to be fun for less than 10% of players like you and I that play the game for the 1v1..........
1v1 is just a dying breed of game play....Players like you and I will just move on in life like some of the other players have. We are being effectively replaced with players with a differant mentality....Our problem is we hope it might change.... or the pendulum will swing the other way...
I dont see it changing at all the pendulum is still swinging the other way.
I dont get anywere near the number of 1v1 i could get 3 years ago....200 is no were near as friendly as it used to be.....
Bottom line is there is no cure for the lack of respect for the 1v1..... Except RESPECT....
<S>
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100% correct! Somebody not so recently actually proved this.
What is the source for this distance? Anecdotal evidence suggests identification at much more than 1 1/4 miles with much less than a planform angle.
And let us not forget those darn video cards. Anybody asking for no icons must have a great card........... And if not....... They are just stupid.
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100% correct! Somebody not so recently actually proved this.
I would also like to see how it was proved.
Regards,
Hammer
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I wonder how many paying players have low end computers......
I just dont believe that most players have low end cmputers that play ACES High......
What is anyones guess as to how much profit is in the `15.00 bucks for HTC.... mabye 2 or 3 dollars what would you guess???????????????? i bet they barely break even at the end of the month.......
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LOL you want no icons why dont you go to Lockon with BVR radar and all the goodies that come along with it. Aim120s' and the R77s' just to name a couple fun spray and pray missles.
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I live under the landing pattern of a small airport. I get learjets and such passing over my backyard quite frequently. Even distant ones are far far FAR more identifiable than the 1-black-pixel that AH has.
It's NOT about graphics cards. It's NOT about the size of your monitor or the resolution.
The entire concept of showing visual representations at a distance on a PC is not even a fraction as accurate as the old Mk.I eyeball. Most planes in this game are a collection of 1 to 5 black pixels until well under 1000 yards. At that point you should already have identified the contact and positioned yourself to attack. Instead without icons you're worse than legally blind and cannot distinguish what the hell you're looking at unless it's a bomber with a 150-foot wingspan (and that's the exception to the rule, let's be honest).
It's NOT a matter of "having enough cool technology" -- because the game itself (and EVERY game in existence today) cannot represent what the human eye can at distances.
No icons represents what the folks that were kicked outta flight school for being unable to see would experience, not what really can be seen.
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A new icon system that preserves the nature of real world fights while correcting the limitations of the monitor would be an amazing...
This I agree with. I've often thought we should get limited info at long range - maybe a "1E" identifying the plane as a single engine type along with "2E" and "4E". You could then progress to plane type etc as range decreased.
I really like that idea. No doubt the high end systems would have a significant advantage with icons off using our current system.
Giving limited info according to range would be a nice way to go. To expand a bit on what hammer suggested:
- Info on number of engines (1E)
- Country type (Britian)
- Plane type (Spitfire)
- Plane model (Spit V)
- Range (300)
I would have to think about the transitions between the information and which info would remain, but others smarter than I could come up with something I am sure.
I have always wanted another icon option for special events. This would be a great addition to Friday Squad Operations or the Snapshots and any other events that wanted to use another icon option.
I remember several years back (for a very short period of time) HTC tried a different icon method. Did not last long, but I liked it.
I liked what they had in WWIIOL a few years back with the circle appearing around the aircraft when in close range. Sure was tough to spot them at times.
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A soft colored halo outlining the airplane (red or green) ID's friend or foe and resolves the blending into the background issues.
No distance marker ever. A variable rate flashing -/+ to indicate closure direction and relative velocity.
Id plane type at a range determined by aircraft size. Just take the smallest airframe in the game (109 I think is smallest) and scale ID distances out from that baseline. A 109 size airplane can be reliably identified at about 6000 feet in planform. Bigger is further.
Answers all the concerns of hardware differences and is much more realistic than the current system
I wopuld actually be willing to go along with this.
I have no problem discerning aircraft type from a distance that would be needed.. I.E. in profile I can tell a 109 from a LA from a pony at 1.0 or so.. which is still outside engagement distance..
the rub comes in your distinction between a G2/K4/F4.. and such, THAT'S when things could get difficult.. if you try to fight a F4 the way you would a K4 you will get murdered.
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"Proved" might be a strong word but.......
Same thread, different starter, last month........
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254180.0.html
I would also like to see how it was proved.
Regards,
Hammer
I play that game every night!
:lol The old game of is that a con or a spot of dust on my monitor.
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this would be more of an AvA thing. in the MA its to hard to tell friend from foe when your all flying the same model planes whenever, wherever. just my thoughts
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What is the source for this distance? Anecdotal evidence suggests identification at much more than 1 1/4 miles with much less than a planform angle. Of course, knowing what the bad guys are flying helps identify things early, and there is also real and anecdotal evidence of pilots mis-identifying planes within gun range. I've never seen anything definitive and it's always an interesting discussion on this topic!
Regards,
Hammer
Well, the source is me. About 10 years ago I was interested in how close Warbirds was to reality and what changes to the icon system would better reflect reality.
I freely admit there are limitations to computers when it comes to visual simulation but I also believe there is a better compromise between no icons and the rather silly icon system we have now.
As for how I arrived at my numbers....
It was a multipart experiment, one I continue to this day in small ways but here is what I did 10 years ago.
I gathered all of the actual dimensions of the aircraft in game and I compared those dimensions to aircraft commonly flying today for the real world experiment portion. I found common modern airplanes that were similar in size to each game model.
I spent time at local airports playing a game trying to identify aircraft over known distances from my vantage point and comparing my guess to reality when the plane was close enough for positive identification (I have a long background in aviation and can recognize just about anything flying)
Conclusion one.......There is a big difference between I see an airplane and I see a Beechcraft Baron.
Conclusion two.......Knowledge of aircraft is critical. Aircraft I could identify at 2 miles my wife (who has spent a considerable amount of time around airplanes) had to look at the nameplate when it was parked.
I even enlisted air traffic controllers and other pilots in the experiment. I continue this silliness to this day. I am always comparing TCAS range in the Challenger with what I see outside the window. It is amazing how hard it is to spot a airliner sized airplane when you know exactly where to look and how close it has to be before you know exactly what it is. Just yesterday I played this game while tooling around in a 172.
The second part was to print scaled silhouettes of every plane in the game. I then gave the scaled silhouettes to my wife (and a few others ) for five minutes of study.
I measured scale distances and starting from scale 5 miles had the wife try to ID each type. I had her come in a half mile at a time and recorded the result. I did the same thing. I was able to correctly identify the aircraft much further out than she was until she became familiar. Then the distances got closer together but it was clear that outside of certain scale distances one could only determine basic characteristics and not enough to positively identify the aircraft.
109's look like P51's. Ki84's look like Zekes. 110's look like P38's from far enough away. Big planes were easy. Small planes were hard. Everything you would expect.
The 6000 feet for a 109 sized airplane comes from an average of part one and part two results.
The last thing I did was paint a white letter (it was an M so I could turn it upside down and make it a W) on a black background. The letter was the same size as the Tail ID on a B17.
The letter was reliably identifiable at 1100 feet by people with 20/20 or better (I have 20/10 20/15)
The specific number isn't incredibly important. The biggest issue is that a smaller plane should not be positively identified at the same distance as the biggest plane. A 109 is much harder to see and identify than a B24.
Anecdotal evidence is particularly unreliable because people have no distance reference unless they specifically are measuring something like this.
For example, if you are looking at an airplane flying directly overhead in the traffic pattern at the local airport it is 1000 feet away if its a piston engine plane. That is very close. Way inside guns range in the game.
And like I said earlier....there is a big difference between seeing a plane clearly and actually identifying it.
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A soft colored halo outlining the airplane (red or green) ID's friend or foe and resolves the blending into the background issues.
No distance marker ever. A variable rate flashing -/+ to indicate closure direction and relative velocity.
Id plane type at a range determined by aircraft size. Just take the smallest airframe in the game (109 I think is smallest) and scale ID distances out from that baseline. A 109 size airplane can be reliably identified at about 6000 feet in planform. Bigger is further.
I like this idea to.
If nothing else this thread does offer a lot of suggestions to HTC and lets them know many in the community would enjoy other icon options, especially special events.
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Courtesy of BnZ:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/aee459e014b2ba4eb7e378abbe4a63d16g.jpg)
Only 2400 ft away is this plane that you cannot identify.
Lots of words........
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ah cc in game. thought you had something definitive from RL.
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I like this idea to.
If nothing else this thread does offer a lot of suggestions to HTC and lets them know many in the community would enjoy other icon options, especially special events.
This idea isn't to bad, I really like the scope of it. The halo especially helps against dark backrounds, and determins the airspace the aircraft is in. In addition to this, I'd like to see it also use the following:
The halo doesn't appear until you "aquire" visual of the bandit. At close distances, you only have to be looking at the aircraft for a split second or two before the halo appears, and it appears instantly. If you're at a much longer distance, say 6000K, then the halo would take many seconds to appear and could fade in/out depending on if you're looking at it or not.
So at long range you could see movement, keeping the A/C in your view, then the halo would fade in and identify it. Alternatively, if at long range, you might "accidentally" have an aircraft in your visual scope, but unless you're concentrating on the view, you might miss it entirely.
I feel it's about the best as it could get, with the limitations of the 3D vs. 2D argument.
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Or we could leave as is, if the bandit you're bouncing sees you, so be it,you get to do some of that pilot shQ%@#$$t. :P
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on this computer mulligan built for me i could handle it.
What i would love is more customisation of the icons. Do you want range displayed? do you want the country displayed? how about the option to have a single pixle red dot as the icon. Then you can maximise your viewing enjoyment personaly.
It would be great to have an icon deadband slider on each end of D6.0 to D0. Then you could set it so that plane closer than X yards have no icons eg. from 200-0yards.
Mess to much with icons though and you lose the purpose. Icons enable the old or the young to all be blessed with the eagle eyes of a 20 year old WW2 ace just like we can all withstand an equal ammount of G.
more options for customisation would be sweet, imo.
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on this computer mulligan built for me i could handle it.
What i would love is more customisation of the icons. Do you want range displayed? do you want the country displayed? how about the option to have a single pixle red dot as the icon. Then you can maximise your viewing enjoyment personaly.
the hangup there is if everything is optional, and nothing is forced, everybody(the vast majority) will used whatever gives the biggest advantage.
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exactly, like i said a line or two down..
Mess to much with icons though and you lose the purpose. Icons enable the old or the young to all be blessed with the eagle eyes of a 20 year old WW2 ace just like we can all withstand an equal ammount of G.
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Bah, Icons! I do not like them, hence I hang out in the full switch servers of IL2 over hyperlobby. But with AHII since the planes in the MAs are not split into Axis and Allied sides, lack of icons would make visual identification near useless. By that I mean if you are in a BF.109 and ID another Bf.109 you would still not know weather if was rook, bish, or knight (unless you use VOX). If the arenas were splt like the AvA arena with a clearly axis and allied oriented plane set on each side then icons off would work, if you ID that same 109 in this instance then you know not to fire.
But this game is what it is. Yes icons are not very realistic, but that is just part of what makes this game have its broad appeal. Some like myself like engine management/overheat/break down, we like no icons and visual identification, we are not opposed to flying at 7-10km. But there are others that just want to jump in and have at it for a quick couple of sorties.
I think esentially HT has done a good job of incorporating a mix of realism and functionality itho this game. He has made a game to wich there is a broad appeal and one to wich the hard core and casual and even the "air quake" types can all mingle together.
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But this game is what it is. Yes icons are not very realistic, but that is just part of what makes this game have its broad appeal. Some like myself like engine management/overheat/break down, we like no icons and visual identification, we are not opposed to flying at 7-10km. But there are others that just want to jump in and have at it for a quick couple of sorties.
I would love to have higher alt fights and perhaps more complex engine management in AHII, but this no icons as "realism" that people keep harping on is highly debatable, even in an AvA enviroment. As has been demonstrated ad nauseum. No icons would be more aesthetically pleasing perhaps, but it is not terribly realistic to be unable to type a fighter-sized aircraft only a mile away in CAVU conditions, without resorting to extreme zoomed views which are a PITA themselves from a function/fov/having to fool with even more keys/buttons just to look around standpoint.
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All of those icon ideas I posted come from Dobs. Warbirds guys will recognize the name.
He is an F15E guy in the USAF and participated in an effort to develop a more realistic icon system. The ideas I posted are directly from him, a guy with real world experience dogfighting trying to get it into the game. The halo, +/- and aspect and range dependent ID all come from what he perceived as a realistic compromise in game.
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ah cc in game. thought you had something definitive from RL.
Oh....I have definitive from real life but that doesn't matter one bit. A 109 size airplane is reliably identifiable at 6000 feet
You are looking for some guy to travel back to 1943 and do an icon study.
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Oh....I have definitive from real life but that doesn't matter one bit. A 109 size airplane is reliably identifiable at 6000 feet
You are looking for some guy to travel back to 1943 and do an icon study.
No, what I'm really asking is the source of "A 109 size airplane is reliably identifiable at 6000 feet". I've seen numbers like this, much larger numbers, and much smaller numbers thrown out there as fact but there are never sources to back them up. Six thousand feet is about 1 1/4 mile. I can generally, given the right road conditions, ID auto types at that distance with a reasonable degree of accuracy; particularly the non-generic types. It seems to me plane's would be easier in general given the right angle (hence my earlier statement about viewing angle having some impact on icon distance).
I like the halo idea. I think the system where an ID gradually fades in as a plane is in your view (is that WW2OL?) has some merit. I agree that the AH system is less than optimal. I'm just curious about the source for the 6000 feet.
BTW, my response you quoted was to LLogan's statement where he quoted my note about anecdotal evidence of extremely long ranged identifications and said it had recently been proved. I was asking what proof that was.
Regards,
Hammer
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Courtesy of BnZ:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/aee459e014b2ba4eb7e378abbe4a63d16g.jpg)
Only 2400 ft away is this plane that you cannot identify.
Fly closer then :noid :lol
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Oh come on. This isn't about flying so you can't see icons. You can do that now if you choose. This is about flying so others cannot see your icon.
I get tired of getting picked by some bnz cherry picker because he can see my icon.
The pilot has to make a different set of choices when he is over a base with 20 cons and 20 friendlies not just
pick the red icons.
It's another "I'm getting killed too much/too easy" rant. You want to fly without icons? Go for it. ALT + I. I for one see dots. Bushes and GVs look the same to me.
The discussion is nice, but why ask to impose on everyone what you already have the ability to do yourself right now?
wrongway
(after a weeks imposed absence)
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Sonic, I have experienced this experiment when I played "Il2" online abit.
Your idea that no icons will keep you from getting "cherrypicked" is totally wrong. It has *exactly* the opposite effect in full switch Il2 servers. It gives great advantage to he high-speed, high-alt hit and run style attack, in fact to a certain degree that becomes the only *sane* style of fighting because of the limits on SA.
Hmmm, Some got it others did not.
We still have radar to know where eny are.
I would be fine with a modified icon system get rid of range and plane type would improve some aspects of game play imo.
Or leave range and plane type, and turn off red icon.
BTW i know you can turn off and on the icons. I don't pick from 20 k though I,m talking about the pilots that bnz. It makes it easy for them to pick out icons at a long range to pick over and over again as soon as they loose sight they would have to reevaluate the situation before making the next run. However now they just see a low 109 at 6k and jump it again. MY thoughts are that if the icons were modified or off and they lose sight by climbing back up out of sight and start to come back down and now see three planes one of which is a eny con two are friendlies they are going to have to make some better choices. So the dont blow them selves out of the sky by friendly kill shot.
Some of you made my exact point if they don't know and aren't communicating with pilots on their side they will blow themselves out of the sky by shooting their own team mate. Leave kill shoot on.
The ground doesn't have and icon nor does it need it I auger all the time and don't complain. It was my fault.
You shoot your bud out of the sky you deserve to die.
Yes we would see more squad type flying with the same plane types.
I get tired of getting picked by some bnz cherry picker because he can see my icon.
The pilot has to make a different set of choices when he is over a base with 20 cons and 20 friendlies not just
pick the red icons.
Turning on the icons at close range only, would help a little.
Hey guys I still like the game and enjoy playing overall. Its is lame some nights more that others though.
Just some suggestions
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Oh come on. This isn't about flying so you can't see icons. You can do that now if you choose. This is about flying so others cannot see your icon.
It's another "I'm getting killed too much/too easy" rant. You want to fly without icons? Go for it. ALT + I. I for one see dots. Bushes and GVs look the same to me.
The discussion is nice, but why ask to impose on everyone what you already have the ability to do yourself right now?
wrongway
(after a weeks imposed absence)
Clear, concise and accurate!! :aok
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All of those icon ideas I posted come from Dobs. Warbirds guys will recognize the name.
He is an F15E guy in the USAF and participated in an effort to develop a more realistic icon system. The ideas I posted are directly from him, a guy with real world experience dogfighting trying to get it into the game. The halo, +/- and aspect and range dependent ID all come from what he perceived as a realistic compromise in game.
I can't say where HTC got the +/- system from, but I suggested that idea here well before it was implemented and I came up with it on my own. I am not taking credit for it here, merely pointing out that your friend is not necessarily the origin of it.
In the end, no icons means a lot less ACM and a lot more ambushes in which no maneuvering happens. That sounds a lot less fun.
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Courtesy of BnZ:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/aee459e014b2ba4eb7e378abbe4a63d16g.jpg)
Only 2400 ft away is this plane that you cannot identify.
Looks like a P-47 to me, but I could be wrong :)
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Clear, concise and accurate!! :aok
Thats exactly what Sonicblu said........ Turning off the icons so you dont get picked all the time......Cause its to the point in the game were its just BS you pickers dont go for anyone thats not already engage........Cause you get your prettythang handed to you cause you have no clue how to fly 1v1... your totaly lost.........
NO< > for you
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Thats exactly what Sonicblu said........ Turning off the icons so you dont get picked all the time......Cause its to the point in the game were its just BS you pickers dont go for anyone thats not already engage........Cause you get your uncle handed to you cause you have no clue how to fly 1v1... your totaly lost.........
NO< > for you
Hmmm.... :huh
So, what you are saying is that because you lack the skill or experience to utilize good SA....everyone should have to fly without icons? In the immortal words of an old time AH player...."Fly like a cherry......and someone will make cherry pie out of you." Btw, if you wish to try to hand me my "uncle" 1v1.....just let me know when you feel froggy. :)
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We had a no icon arena once years ago, it was underutilized and didnt last long.
shamus
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Geeeze if i have to exsplain it you wont understand......
No im saying picking a player that is already engaged in a 1v1 is lame really lame......Im asking you do you have any respect for a player that is already engaged in a 1v1...?
BTW If you will read the whole thread you will see my position on the matter i posted in in plain english...So you have no reason to ask me what im saying!!!
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Geeeze if i have to exsplain it you wont understand......
Well, perhaps if you learned a little spelling and punctuation, you wouldn't need to explain your posts. :)
No im saying picking a player that is already engaged in a 1v1 is lame really lame......Im asking you do you have any respect for a player that is already engaged in a 1v1...?
...and I am saying that if you fly like a dweeb someone will harvest you. Am I saying that I will? Probably not. I'm, often as not, looking for more than one bad guy to fight. But, if I put myself in a situation where I am going to get picked by someone....I sure don't complain because I'm not smart enough to stay out of that situation. Work on your SA and you won't have to worry so much about getting picked. :D
BTW cupcake...the offer to fight you 1v1 remains on the table. :)
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More slop....Are you going to specifically answer my question? ITs a simple yes or no...
Ill 1v1 you in the MA any time i am on.....
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More slop....Are you going to specifically answer my question? ITs a simple yes or no...
Well, since you are obviously a "simple" person...here is the simple answer. If I know its you....I will pick you in a heart beat. If a friendly asks me to stay out...I respect that. I will, generally, ask if my help is needed before entering a 1v1 and I always respect the answer I get. Do I care about the "bad guy's" feelings? No, silly....he is the BAD GUY!!!
BTW, you have simply proven that Wrongway was right. This is about trying to force others to play the way you want them to because your playing style is weak. Being picked is like being vulched....you have to be dumb enough to let someone do it to you! :rolleyes:
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NB getting called out? wow, im so IN :D
edit: for the record, i dont think SonicBlu was ranting about pickers as much as making a realism arena. He never said enforce it on the whole game. I think it would be fun if it was an optional arena that only those willing to make things harder would join.
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Well, since you are obviously a "simple" person...here is the simple answer. If I know its you....I will pick you in a heart beat. If a friendly asks me to stay out...I respect that. I will, generally, ask if my help is needed before entering a 1v1 and I always respect the answer I get. Do I care about the "bad guy's" feelings? No, silly....he is the BAD GUY!!!
BTW, you have simply proven that Wrongway was right. This is about trying to force others to play the way you want them to because your playing style is weak. Being picked is like being vulched....you have to be dumb enough to let someone do it to you! :rolleyes:
The personal jedi mind tricks dont work on me.....If you know its "me" ? :rofl :rofl :rofl
BTW read my post I allready said it was a way to force players to play differently before wrngway did... so i dont see your point....He validates my post not the other way around.
opppps i forgot some punctuations i hope u can still understand what i said
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:rofl You're all crazy, from the original post it is quite clear it was intended as an optional arena idea. Who is going to force anyone to log in there? Sonicblu is a decent player, he knows how to fly and fight 1 on 1. I think this is a false mob of protest forming around a good idea.
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He wants 1v1 go to the DA. He was cloaking the request inside an argument of "realism" and "anti-cherry-picking" rhetoric.
Neither of which do anything other than to let the one guy who's already got blinders on to live long enough to kill the other guy in his own private 1-on-1.
1-on-1s can rarely be found in historic events and scenarios.
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If anything, i think no icons would make cherry picking much easier. this board is like a courtroom sometimes, with hundreds of lawyers all with their own idea of the picture.
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It's true... He was....... :D
BTW, my response you quoted was to LLogan's statement where he quoted my note about anecdotal evidence of extremely long ranged identifications and said it had recently been proved. I was asking what proof that was.
....And you know... If you stop and think about it for a second.... The only thing that would happen if icons were always off, would be kill shooters all day long. Because so many of the group would still cherry pick just based on the idea that it could be an enemy.
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:rofl You're all crazy, from the original post it is quite clear it was intended as an optional arena idea. Who is going to force anyone to log in there? Sonicblu is a decent player, he knows how to fly and fight 1 on 1. I think this is a false mob of protest forming around a good idea.
...and I have never denied that I was (am) crazy. Heck, it's a GOOD thing. :D
While I am willing to admit that having another arena would not force anyone to play there and I will defer to your judgment on Sonicblu's decency...he does state that he wants it because he gets cherried. The flaw in his logic is that the 2 things are related...they aren't. I stand with my agreeing with Wrongway's post. If Sonicblu had not decided to link the 2 issues, I would probably only have posted that he should search for icon threads. He would then find the reasons why it is impractical to do what he wants.
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The personal jedi mind tricks dont work on me.....If you know its "me" ? :rofl :rofl :rofl
BTW read my post I allready said it was a way to force players to play differently before wrngway did... so i dont see your point....He validates my post not the other way around.
opppps i forgot some punctuations i hope u can still understand what i said
Are you really this new? You don't think enemies can find each other? You don't think people talk about the guy they killed...or the one that killed them? Geez son...stop by the gift shop and pick up a clue rake......you are in dire need of one!!!! :rofl
Let me make sure I have this right....
Wrongway validates your post by saying that the idea is merely a crutch for people that can't learn proper SA? Oh yes..the following quote from his post really does "validate" your point of view..."It's another "I'm getting killed too much/too easy" rant. ".
BTW, I'm sure that when you get to the 6th grade...they will teach you more punctuation. :)
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If anything, i think no icons would make cherry picking much easier. this board is like a courtroom sometimes, with hundreds of lawyers all with their own idea of the picture.
I know for a fact that that the "surprise-you're dead!" style of attack would encompass 90% of kills in an iconless arena because I've played in ones in other games. That's been my point all along.
Would this be realistic? Certainly. Is AHII better or worse because a bandit has an unrealistically decent chance of seeing you bounce him in AHII, thus forcing you to do some of that ma-nooverin' stuff if you want the kill?...that's up to each individual to decide I suppose. ;)
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Is AHII better or worse because a bandit has an unrealistically decent chance of seeing you bounce him in AHII, thus forcing you to do some of that ma-nooverin' stuff if you want the kill?...that's up to each individual to decide I suppose. ;)
In a word...YES. The game is always about balancing realism and gameplay. Add this request to other similar ones, like no radar, no field warnings, etc., and you get a much more "realistic" game. Realistically, only 10% of the fighter pilots that flew in WW2 shot down an enemy plane in combat. Only about 10% of that 10% did it more than once. Striving for this might be realistic....but would make for a VERY boring game.
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I know for a fact that that the "surprise-you're dead!" style of attack would encompass 90% of kills in an iconless arena because I've played in ones in other games. That's been my point all along.
Would this be realistic? Certainly. Is AHII better or worse because a bandit has an unrealistically decent chance of seeing you bounce him in AHII, thus forcing you to do some of that ma-nooverin' stuff if you want the kill?...that's up to each individual to decide I suppose. ;)
Let me try it this way...
We agree that the icon thing is a bad idea.....as i have posted....We agree that it would force some to play a differant way.....as i have posted ... We agree that i have problems with punctuations and spelling.....We agree that you dint respect the 1v1 in the MA.....
The interesting thing is you posted your REASONS you dont resectthe 1v1 in the MA.... the other player is a "dweeb" "bad SA" ect.
Its exactly like your commcent about my spelling and punctuation If you know its wrong then you know how it would be right..... So to say I would not have to explain if I punctuated properly is LAME. AND a false statement. youunderstandanyways
The only reason someone cant have a 1v1 has nothing to do with history. Its that players dont respect it in the MA ..for what ever reasons they have........Which is a differant conversation.... So is whining about it differant conversation....I am not interested in placing everything into the trash bag then having to dig thru with you.....
I would be willing to guess you cant tell me were we disagree.
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Huh, I have not posted *anything* on the subject of your spelling, or the merits or demerits of cherrypicking. Indeed, the only point I have made is that a lack of icons would facilitate cherrypicking. So I can only conclude you posted this in response to me because things are still a bit confusing on a Saturday morning coming down...try having some black coffee and toast before hiting "reply" again, mmmkay?
Let me try it this way...
We agree that the icon thing is a bad idea.....as i have posted....We agree that it would force some to play a differant way.....as i have posted ... We agree that i have problems with punctuations and spelling.....We agree that you dint respect the 1v1 in the MA.....
The interesting thing is you posted your REASONS you dont resectthe 1v1 in the MA.... the other player is a "dweeb" "bad SA" ect.
Its exactly like your commcent about my spelling and punctuation If you know its wrong then you know how it would be right..... So to say I would not have to explain if I punctuated properly is LAME. AND a false statement. youunderstandanyways
The only reason someone cant have a 1v1 has nothing to do with history. Its that players dont respect it in the MA ..for what ever reasons they have........Which is a differant conversation.... So is whining about it differant conversation....I am not interested in placing everything into the trash bag then having to dig thru with you.....
I would be willing to guess you cant tell me were we disagree.
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...and I have never denied that I was (am) crazy. Heck, it's a GOOD thing. :D
While I am willing to admit that having another arena would not force anyone to play there and I will defer to your judgment on Sonicblu's decency...he does state that he wants it because he gets cherried. The flaw in his logic is that the 2 things are related...they aren't. I stand with my agreeing with Wrongway's post. If Sonicblu had not decided to link the 2 issues, I would probably only have posted that he should search for icon threads. He would then find the reasons why it is impractical to do what he wants.
i cant argue with logic of this calibre :D
S!
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Huh, I have not posted *anything* on the subject of your spelling, or the merits or demerits of cherrypicking. Indeed, the only point I have made is that a lack of icons would facilitate cherrypicking. So I can only conclude you posted this in response to me because things are still a bit confusing on a Saturday morning coming down...try having some black coffee and toast before hiting "reply" again, mmmkay?
BnZ...
You just got PUNKED by the dweeb version of a scatter gun!! :devil
He was trying to respond to me. However, his SA is so poor he can't even do that right!! One has to wonder...does he even know what "SA" is? :D
Firedragon...
At least take the time to LOOK at what you type!! You not only have problems putting together a cogent argument, you also seem to have problems with coherent sentences!!
GOOD LORD MAN!!! STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD!!! :devil
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I am not interested if it makes it more realistic or not. I'm interested in better game play.
We are living with "you cant see the plane anyway" NONE of this changes how the planes are seen. The icons dint change the fact that you can or can't see the planes. Lets use our brains here.
It is a false argument. Having the icon NOT only gives you information you cant gather gather visually," because of poor graphics" and or limitations in this enviornment. It gives you information you shouldn't have.
Because 90% of the players use the information in a way the deteriorates game play imo.
I doesn't change the fact that you cant see the plane or what type it is.
LOL on the suggestions that i turn off my icons. Come on guys. I don't use them in a way that deteriorates game play.
There is a reason I choose the to title the post Turn the icons off. Even though i would rather modify them.
IT shows in some of the responses because you have to think "how would I fly with no icon?"
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Oh come on. This isn't about flying so you can't see icons. You can do that now if you choose. This is about flying so others cannot see your icon.
I never said it was about flying with no icons duh. and you are right i don't want a bnz cherrypicker to see my icon.
Look and my previous post it will help you understand.
It's another "I'm getting killed too much/too easy" rant. You want to fly without icons? Go for it. ALT + I. I for one see dots. Bushes and GVs look the same to me.
Read my post dont judge my emotional state. YOU lack the qualifications.
The discussion is nice, but why ask to impose on everyone what you already have the ability to do yourself right now?
I never asked to impose anything on anyone. I only chose the the title Turn icons off. In my post you can see i would prefer a modified system. YOUR the one the got stuck on the "Turn icons off title"
wrongway
(after a weeks imposed absence)
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Sonic, I have experienced this experiment when I played "Il2" online abit.
Your idea that no icons will keep you from getting "cherrypicked" is totally wrong. It has *exactly* the opposite effect in full switch Il2 servers. It gives great advantage to he high-speed, high-alt hit and run style attack, in fact to a certain degree that becomes the only *sane* style of fighting because of the limits on SA.
It may in fact in some situations. I have takin that into consideration before posting.
In other situations the cherry picker is going to die alot if he doesnt have very good SA. because he is going to kill shoot himself. If the icon didn't show up as eny cons " red ".
I am hoping it would improve game play overall. Hey I may be wrong.
Anyway it is a type of play that has been taught by example to the new players.
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NB getting called out? wow, im so IN :D
edit: for the record, i dont think SonicBlu was ranting about pickers as much as making a realism arena. He never said enforce it on the whole game. I think it would be fun if it was an optional arena that only those willing to make things harder would join.
Thanks batfink It was just a suggestion. Not trying to impose anything on anyone.
wrongway. Says that it your own fault for flying a certain way to get pick or vulched. That I can agree with. However
use the same logic here wrongway. If you don't want to enter an arena or special event with them turned off. Don't come play.
Why the emotional diatribe on the bbs.
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It is a false argument. [...] It gives you information you shouldn't have.
Wow. You're very wrong. You don't get ENOUGH info.
The point isn't to create an arbitrary system like FighterAce where everything is % based (like TIE Fighter), the point is to give you realistic weapons, planes, performance, and use these as tools not to re-create WW2 but to simply enjoy flying what was available in WW2.
We're given many tools, and your request is to remove several of them. That's just 1 step shy of giving everybody 1 turbolaser and deflector shields, you're basically complaining about getting cherry picked and want to shut down everything that helps you come close to semi-realistic visual dimension.
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It may in fact in some situations. I have takin that into consideration before posting.
In other situations the cherry picker is going to die alot if he doesnt have very good SA. because he is going to kill shoot himself. If the icon didn't show up as eny cons " red ".
I am hoping it would improve game play overall. Hey I may be wrong.
Anyway it is a type of play that has been taught by example to the new players.
Just so I clearly understand what you just said. You want to have no idea who is friendly and who is enemy?
HiTech
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Wow. You're very wrong. You don't get ENOUGH info.
The point isn't to create an arbitrary system like FighterAce where everything is % based (like TIE Fighter), the point is to give you realistic weapons, planes, performance, and use these as tools not to re-create WW2 but to simply enjoy flying what was available in WW2.
We're given many tools, and your request is to remove several of them. That's just 1 step shy of giving everybody 1 turbolaser and deflector shields, you're basically complaining about getting cherry picked and want to shut down everything that helps you come close to semi-realistic visual dimension.
Krusty please dont take my post out of context by modifing the quote. It is only to much information because the person uses it to deteriote game play was my thought. MY thought may be wrong. but is seems to me that in this enviornment it is to much information for most people to have as it deterorates game play if used to vulch/ cherrypick. ( to have a red icon around the eny and a green one around friendlys
I apoligize for my lack of understanding the terms cherry pick and vulch and not being more specific. As i go through the posts it looks like I have drawn a poor picture by useing and interchanging a term.
MY thought is the situations where there are muliple cons, im lifting from a base and get pounced over and over. NO i dont get Picked/vulched the first pass it takes 5 or more passes of spray and pray to shoot me down.
I think in my original post i suggested a seperate venue NOT DA MA and every arena.
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Even monkeys in a cage, when they press a button and get an electric shock, learn not to press the button.
Why did you keep re-upping after being vulched over and over?
I don't think it's the game's fault. If anything, blame the horde/mission vulching, but not the game. When you're on the runway and low to the ground, your icon doesn't show up on top of the plane, it shows up underneath it. They're just close enough they can vulch you without needing to know what plane you're in.
EDIT: And I did not take your quote out of text. I thought I took it directly in the context it was given.
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Just so I clearly understand what you just said. You want to have no idea who is friendly and who is enemy?
HiTech
It would have to be no green or red icons.
I am only suggesting it in a seperate time or place NOT an overall game play. To turn off icons.
A modified form of icons in the MA I thought would help improve game play.
I think several of the post here have pointed out a modified form may be best. MY thoughts are on overall improved gameplay.
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I love to turn on Friendly Icons only once in a while. Always gotta keep an eye on your enemy, or he'll dissappear into the trees and you won't have the big red icon to tell you where he is!
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Just so I clearly understand what you just said. You want to have no idea who is friendly and who is enemy?
HiTech
I think the present icon system is certainly not ideal.
Let me present some of the pros and cons of both extremes.
Current Icon system.....
Pros....Easy to tell friend from foe. Easy to see the name of the friend
Cons..Distance that aircraft are identifiable by specific model is unrealistically high and the same for every aircraft no matter the size or shape of that aircraft. Distance info is far too exact for the period. Huge text based system detracts from visual beauty of the game.
No Icons
Pros....Fights are visually stunning. I've done it, a bunch, in another game and it is amazing how much your brain focuses on the icon. It is awesome to suddenly be focusing on only the plane. This was my favorite part of no icons fights. It was like the best WWII movie you ever saw. Fights were closer, tighter, more intense. Some of the uncertainty of real fights is available. Its a lot easier to bug out of a fight or to actually get a "bounce". The uncertainty of friend or foe at long range and of specific model is preserved.
Cons....Its hard to see stuff. Hard to determine aspect and closure. In an MA type environment you can't tell who your friends are. Even when you know which planes are friends you can't tell who they are. No Icons is impossible outside of an historical axis vs allies setup and very difficult in one. Fun for only a few rather eccentric folks like myself.
The middle ground between the two would be ideal, especially if that middle ground magically preserved the Pros and eliminated the Cons.
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LOL on the suggestions that i turn off my icons. Come on guys. I don't use them in a way that deteriorates game play.
Please, explain what you mean by "in a way that deteriorates game play". I ask because icons give the opportunity to participate in "unreal" environment in a realistic way. Without them, the over whelming majority of people here was qualify as legally blind within the game.
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Yeah but only for 1 event, i think it will be fun, more real and will really take team work in communication
I played an event once in the pitch black night with icon range set at like 3k. That was intensely more difficult. I can't imagine having no icons in virtual reality.
I'd recommend going to the DA and dueling a friend where both agree to turn icons off and experiment.
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It would have to be no green or red icons.
I am only suggesting it in a seperate time or place NOT an overall game play. To turn off icons.
A modified form of icons in the MA I thought would help improve game play.
I think several of the post here have pointed out a modified form may be best. MY thoughts are on overall improved gameplay.
With no green icons, no red icons, and killshooter on -- Aces High would be absolutely unplayable.
Why? Because ANY player from ANY country can fly ANY plane with ANY skin! Without icons there is simply no way to tell who is friendly and who isn't!
Just can't imagine anyone with any sense at all asking for this in AH. Only way its even conceivable is to AT THE SAME TIME ask that the plane set be limited to certain countries' aircraft for each chess piece. And that, I dare say, is just not an option for the MA arenas.
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Distance info is far too exact for the period. Huge text based system detracts from visual beauty of the game.
You have a point here. Something I've considered...and I have no idea how hard or easy it would be to implement...is to have the icons simply become translucent beyond a rather close range, finally fading out at long range. Not unreadable but the sort of thing you'd have to look at to read, if that makes any sense. You get something of the effect I'm thinking of with friendly icons in certain low-visibility settings.
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Please, explain what you mean by "in a way that deteriorates game play". I ask because icons give the opportunity to participate in "unreal" environment in a realistic way. Without them, the over whelming majority of people here was qualify as legally blind within the game.
Why not just put the icons out to 10k or 20k?
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Why not just put the icons out to 10k or 20k?
It appears you took my advice. :rofl
In answer to your question (which I'm sure is your attempt sarcasm), because the planes aren't normally seen at that distance.
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Why not just put the icons out to 10k or 20k?
One one end, I've heard of occasional visual identification of bandits at 25 miles.
One the other end, anybody with 20/20 vision should be able to discern and identify a WWII fighter plane 1 mile away in clear air conditions.
Now all our pilots are equal,as it should be, presumably he's an eagle-eyed 20 year old. Its all pretend, so why not? The 1.5 nautical miles (3,000 yards) settings used in scenarios and AvA seems conservatively realistic. The 3 nautical mile settings of the MA is also far from out of the question.