Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: uptown on February 02, 2009, 07:42:54 AM
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With all this talk on the BBS about fair and honorable play, it got me wondering just what that means. HOing,spawn camping, milking,picking, ganging, vulching,ramming,bombing GVs,taking out hangers,taking bases, noe missions,running, flying LAs, Spits and Ponys all seem to be frowned upon.
So, can someone tell me the correct way to interact in the game. What plane to fly and how to fly it? This way we'll all be on the same page and we can once and for all end the whineing. :aok
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Near as I can figure, the only "correct" way to play is to fly as low and slow on the deck as you can, and ACM is to consist of nothing more than pulling the stick back as far as you can. And GOD forbid if you go vertical...
:rolleyes:
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With all this talk on the BBS about fair and honorable play, it got me wondering just what that means. HOing,spawn camping, milking,picking, ganging, vulching,ramming,bombing GVs,taking out hangers,taking bases, noe missions,running, flying LAs, Spits and Ponys all seem to be frowned upon.
So, can someone tell me the correct way to interact in the game. What plane to fly and how to fly it? This way we'll all be on the same page and we can once and for all end the whineing. :aok
To add to this if you don't mind....I like the turn guys who complain about being ho'ed by the Pony's, F4U's etc. My answer is why would I want to get in a turn fight with a plane I can't turn fight with. Them telling me to not BnZ is like me telling them to not BnT.....I fly the Pony with the tactics that better suit the abilities of my chosen ride and I really don't see any fault in that. So if I HO you guys in your turn planes quit sending me nasty messages because I'm not sorry and I want answer you! :P
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Just because you can't turn fight in those does not mean others can't either. Learn your plane and you'd be surprised what it can do. After all it's not the plane that HOs but the pilot.
Lanc stukas and dive bombing in B24s same...... learn your plane.
Last night a new guy came on and asked how to move a tank. I asked if he had read the help files and tried the Training Arena to learn the basic. I told him the game would be more fun with that knowledge.
Instead folks start explaining to him how to do it. Well sure enough that led to another and another question. The text buffer is busy enough without helping those in the main arenas. It is a simple fix. I spend around a couple of hours a week in TA to help folks. Anyone can come in and help. Then if we send new folks there they will learn all the basics and the game will be that much more fun for them.
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So what is the definition of Ho'ing.....
I once heard a WW2 fighter pilot say and I quote:
"Dogfighting ended with WW1, in WW2 air combat was more of a melee." he went on to say that " if he could sneak up and shoot someone in the back, he would" and that " most pilots that were shot down never seen the plane that shot them down" he also said that " fighter pilots were deemed Heroic in some way, but air combat was just not that romantic in WW2"
So I say how should I play the game...the way someone else would like me to play. I think not, I'm going to play the game the way i find it exciting to me and in a way that I find it more historical in my opinion. If I wanted to turn fight I would still be flying my spit 9 and i found that a little boring, I like hunting at 10 or 15k and catching someone else by surprise. I'm in it for the hunt, I'm not in it for gaming. :salute
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Well before the influx of fly-out-of-the-box types came along you did not see hardly any Hos.
If your nose to nose and both have guns..... many of the better sticks pass up such a shot for the fight. For those that do not know their plane they tend to be outclassed and tend to pull the trigger.. the Ho. This game is nothing like actual war.... if it were you'd be out of the game when you die. I believe that if CT had come to be that folks would not be hoing as much. If I understand correctly, in CT you would have had to start back in training.
As to how the game should be played.... depends on if your looking for a fight or just looking to drop a quarter in and get a kill any way you can.
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Well before the influx of fly-out-of-the-box types came along you did not see hardly any Hos.
If your nose to nose and both have guns..... many of the better sticks pass up such a shot for the fight. For those that do not know their plane they tend to be outclassed and tend to pull the trigger.. the Ho. This game is nothing like actual war.... if it were you'd be out of the game when you die. I believe that if CT had come to be that folks would not be hoing as much. If I understand correctly, in CT you would have had to start back in training.
As to how the game should be played.... depends on if your looking for a fight or just looking to drop a quarter in and get a kill any way you can.
In my defense I should also say I always ask a friendly before i get into his fight, and most of the enemy's that I do drop on or usually the ones that are dropping from alt on a friendly. I just prefer my fights to take place at higher altitudes and having the advantage is part of the strategy for me. I will fight one on one but under my conditions! So just because I use slashing attacks, dropping in from alt attacks, or choose to fight vertical etc., that is not really ho'ing in my opinion.
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My way is the only correct way for me. So is yours for you ;)
The rest can whine about it :devil
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Well before the influx of fly-out-of-the-box types came along you did not see hardly any Hos.
If your nose to nose and both have guns..... many of the better sticks pass up such a shot for the fight. For those that do not know their plane they tend to be outclassed and tend to pull the trigger.. the Ho. This game is nothing like actual war.... if it were you'd be out of the game when you die. I believe that if CT had come to be that folks would not be hoing as much. If I understand correctly, in CT you would have had to start back in training.
As to how the game should be played.... depends on if your looking for a fight or just looking to drop a quarter in and get a kill any way you can.
Well said....
I'm not worried about the ho as I fly to avoid it mostly.. If you avoid the ho, 9 times out of 10, the guy administering the attempted ho will put himself in a bad position
and is usually on the defensive the rest of the fight.. He has no clue what to do after missing the only shot he knows that gives him the best chance of hitting anything..
How exciting.... :rolleyes:
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That is not entirely accurate...... And ho's during the war are documented all over the place. "Grim Reaper" F6F pilot, WWII ace, says he never had a dogfight. Always nose to tail or nose to nose, with the latter being far more "real."
If your nose to nose and both have guns..... many of the better sticks pass up such a shot for the fight. For those that do not know their plane they tend to be outclassed and tend to pull the trigger.. the Ho. This game is nothing like actual war....
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In my defense I should also say I always ask a friendly before i get into his fight, and most of the enemy's that I do drop on or usually the ones that are dropping from alt on a friendly. I just prefer my fights to take place at higher altitudes and having the advantage is part of the strategy for me. I will fight one on one but under my conditions! So just because I use slashing attacks, dropping in from alt attacks, or choose to fight vertical etc., that is not really ho'ing in my opinion.
What you just described is not a ho. Just your method of flying. I will say that if you only approach fights where you have advantage you will end up on the short end of the stick when you get in trouble. I prefer fights on the deck in the trees. I like not having to climb to fight... takes time. I prefer to get to the fight right off. I have nothing against folks who fight in the clouds. Just a matter of preference. On the other hand when I find myself 5 or 10k under a con or two, I'm still in my comfort zone. I can more times than not just burn their E till the fight is actually on. I come out on top a reasonable amount of times.
Last night I found myself mixed with 3 cons. The burned their E till finally they were in the mix. I pinged a couple of them, one was smoking and none ever pinged me. I ended up being picked by a fourth that came from thier base. Was fun up to that point. Then I got a brand new 38.
LLogann your back in RL again.... we are talking about the game. You also do not really die in the game.
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here we go again
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Well let me be the first to say it is the land-grabbers way of playing that ruins the game! No wait, it's the elitist furballers! No wait, it's NOE's! No wait, it's mega super duper sized squads! Errr, I meant HOing, picking, vulching, camping...Did I miss anything?
Seriously, be respectful, have fun, and play the way you like with those two things in mind. Anything else is a waste of time & energy. Kind of like channel 200.
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ok, WHAT THE HECK IS THE BIG DEAL WITH THE HOs. I understand its a "newb" move and what have you but, my god you people are whiners, if you see a plane coming straight for you with better guns you move out of the way, I don't know how many times a game i get out fo the way of ho-er, its usally not all that difficult.
and who wrote the rule book and said you not allowed to do that, if you have the shot take it, thats the point of the game, i personally dont blatantly fly straight into people because thats not how I fly, but in the course of a furball with someone if a head on shot presents itself im going to take it because that would mean I get a big hit on him, maybe even shooting him down, thus achieving the purpose of dogfighting shooting the other guy down
I mean really guys its a game, deal with someone doing something that you dont like, thats life, annoying things happen all the time, I have no idea why people make such an issue out of this
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hmm there is a discussion here and you last three are looking for an arguement it seems. Why mess up the boards that way. To the ho'ers everything is a whine when you point one out or it seems even when you don't. Cajun was asking questions and I was doing my best to answer. If you have an answer then post it and quit trying to start arguements.
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Shuffler with all due respect the question was:
So, can someone tell me the correct way to interact in the game. What plane to fly and how to fly it? This way we'll all be on the same page and we can once and for all end the whineing. :aok
My answer was:
Well let me be the first to say it is the land-grabbers way of playing that ruins the game! No wait, it's the elitist furballers! No wait, it's NOE's! No wait, it's mega super duper sized squads! Errr, I meant HOing, picking, vulching, camping...Did I miss anything?
Seriously, be respectful, have fun, and play the way you like with those two things in mind. Anything else is a waste of time & energy. Kind of like channel 200.
I was not inferring something about nor adding anything to your conversation. I was responding to the original poster. Hopefully some of the absurdity mentioned in the first part of my response was not lost on you or future readers.
<Salute>
Way
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With all this talk on the BBS about fair and honorable play, it got me wondering just what that means. HOing,spawn camping, milking,picking, ganging, vulching,ramming,bombing GVs,taking out hangers,taking bases, noe missions,running, flying LAs, Spits and Ponys all seem to be frowned upon.
So, can someone tell me the correct way to interact in the game. What plane to fly and how to fly it? This way we'll all be on the same page and we can once and for all end the whineing. :aok
Uptown,
I have asked the same question and you know what you will never get a straight answer.
A squad I was flying with even got told that they took a base "the wrong way".
People will sit there and tell ya your doing it wrong without any idea of what they consider "the right way" even is.
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Uptown,
I have asked the same question and you know what you will never get a straight answer.
A squad I was flying with even got told that they took a base "the wrong way".
People will sit there and tell ya your doing it wrong without any idea of what they consider "the right way" even is.
We were also told we were lame, children and lacked understanding!
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In my defense I should also say I always ask a friendly before i get into his fight, and most of the enemy's that I do drop on or usually the ones that are dropping from alt on a friendly. I just prefer my fights to take place at higher altitudes and having the advantage is part of the strategy for me. I will fight one on one but under my conditions! So just because I use slashing attacks, dropping in from alt attacks, or choose to fight vertical etc., that is not really ho'ing in my opinion.
Ya I like it when pile-its tell me I killed them in a BnZ,....which they make it sound like it doesn't count or something. A low tactic. Some in here, mostly those who really think they are hot shots think if you don't TnB you're not playing right...as if that's all their is.
Why on earth would I want to TnB in a 190 or 51 on the deck against spits or 38s? That's insanity... but I do it anyway, to really irritate them,... you can't please some unless you freeze in flight and pose for their perfect shot in your head.
A BnZ plane preys on TnB planes or buffs, if both on the deck TnB planes prey on BnZers. Someone who doesn't take a BnZ plane into a horde of deck TnBers is called smart. Some planes weren't made to TnB therefore they are actually flown the way they were meant to,.. imagine that.
A 190 running from TnB with a spit,.. well do ya think? 190s, 51s and 38s NEEEEEEED to extend after 2 rotations to regain E to be able to return to the fight with a chance of winning,... it's not always running. Most that complain about this are flying uber TnB ACs. They want a stupid pilot to fight.
Here's a clue, I'm not going to fight you under your advantages and strong points. I'm going to try to make it my fight, it's your job to turn it to your advantag. What ever gets the bullet down my barrel into your plane I am going to do it, it's the hole object of the game. Too many conflicting and narrow minded **opinions** that tend to be self-serving to ones own style of fighting. OTOH, IMO, flat plane HO is for kids no matter how you paint it.
The price to pay for being a deck jocky is there is always someone higher then you. Alt and E can determine a win. Maybe it's their fault for always being too low when BnZers are around>? SO what, now anything above 6k is an alt monkey?
I shot down a famous pile-it in here, he complained that I just BnZed him in a 51 (suggesting it was lame),.....gee no kidding? BnZ in a 51,... unheard of! <eye roll>
Me thinks there's just starting to be too many community "rules".
Try just reading the below it seems pretty clear, to me.<shrug>
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/etiquette/etiquette.htm (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/etiquette/etiquette.htm)
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Oh Yeah? Well, if that's the case why do I have to wear a flight suit before entering the arena? Or is that just me? :D
LLogann your back in RL again.... we are talking about the game. You also do not really die in the game.
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The correct way is only 1 on 1, co-alt, co-E fights that begin at the merge and no sooner.
Oh, wait, that's the DA.
The correct way is barring cheats, if it works and you're having fun, do it. Let the whiners pi** and moan all they want, it only adds to the enjoyment of the "dweeb" who just killed you. :lol
If HOing, vulching, massive raids on undefended bases, etc. are such a threat, come up with an effective countermeasure, and then you'll feel that much better when you kill the people trying them. :P
Like vulching, for instance - if you don't want to be vulched, don't take off from a capped field! how hard is that? It won't kill you to fly 20 miles to get to a fight, and you'll need a couple of minutes to climb to a decent fighting alt anyway, unless you're going to whine every time someone bouces you from the grand alt-monkey height of 6k. Yeah, I get irritated when I get vulched - at myself, for doing something I know not to do! :mad:
And landgrabbery - if you don't care who wins the war, why do you give a crap what other people are doing to an undefended base? Just don't go there and let them have it! There are plenty of other scraps going on somewhere else. Why does this bother you so much - because you can't stand other people having fun if they're not having fun the way you think they ought to? What is this, the Temperance Union? :devil
As for being picked, well, SA was probably the most important thing for a fighter pilot to master, more important than ACM or gunnery. Part of SA is having a contingency plan for any situation that's likely to come up - and another enemy showing up is pretty darned likely. :noid
Oh, but that's "real life," not the game. Horsehockey. See the fist 2 sentences above. If you're going to get mad every time someone doesn't fight like it's the DA, go to the friggin' DA and stop trying to whine everyone in the MA into playing the way you think they should play. MA is for people who want the extra challenge of dealing with anything the enemy can throw at them including all the situations that don't arise in the DA. :eek:
Thus endeth the rant. :furious And the smileys. :rolleyes:
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The correct way is only 1 on 1, co-alt, co-E fights that begin at the merge and no sooner.
Oh, wait, that's the DA.
The correct way is barring cheats, if it works and you're having fun, do it. Let the whiners pi** and moan all they want, it only adds to the enjoyment of the "dweeb" who just killed you. :lol
If HOing, vulching, massive raids on undefended bases, etc. are such a threat, come up with an effective countermeasure, and then you'll feel that much better when you kill the people trying them. :P
Like vulching, for instance - if you don't want to be vulched, don't take off from a capped field! how hard is that? It won't kill you to fly 20 miles to get to a fight, and you'll need a couple of minutes to climb to a decent fighting alt anyway, unless you're going to whine every time someone bouces you from the grand alt-monkey height of 6k. Yeah, I get irritated when I get vulched - at myself, for doing something I know not to do! :mad:
And landgrabbery - if you don't care who wins the war, why do you give a crap what other people are doing to an undefended base? Just don't go there and let them have it! There are plenty of other scraps going on somewhere else. Why does this bother you so much - because you can't stand other people having fun if they're not having fun the way you think they ought to? What is this, the Temperance Union? :devil
As for being picked, well, SA was probably the most important thing for a fighter pilot to master, more important than ACM or gunnery. Part of SA is having a contingency plan for any situation that's likely to come up - and another enemy showing up is pretty darned likely. :noid
Oh, but that's "real life," not the game. Horsehockey. See the fist 2 sentences above. If you're going to get mad every time someone doesn't fight like it's the DA, go to the friggin' DA and stop trying to whine everyone in the MA into playing the way you think they should play. MA is for people who want the extra challenge of dealing with anything the enemy can throw at them including all the situations that don't arise in the DA. :eek:
Thus endeth the rant. :furious And the smileys. :rolleyes:
Have you been to the DA lately? :rofl
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Uptown,
I have asked the same question and you know what you will never get a straight answer.
A squad I was flying with even got told that they took a base "the wrong way".
People will sit there and tell ya your doing it wrong without any idea of what they consider "the right way" even is.
Stick...
Tried to talk to you about this last time I saw you.....you weren't in a listening mood. :)
The point people like Shuff are trying to make is that the game is about more than simply "capture the flag". Lots more, in fact. Every single one of the capture the flag aspects of the game was created to enhance the combat aspects of the game. Some where along the line, the capture folks have taken the "lead" in how the game is played. Unfortunately (SRI HT...:)), the current MA game makes for a poor strategic/tactical total war simulation. There is a reason why....it was NEVER designed as one. People wanting those aspects always gravitated towards scenarios. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. These days, you don't need tactics or strategy to reset a map. All you need is numbers and a willingness to fly "rinse & repeat" suicide missions. No skill or class involved.
As for the HO discussion, they are a part of reality and, therefore, a part of the game. Too many folks use them as a crutch to make up for their unwillingness to actually learn to play the game. The ones that I complain about are those that are simply "joust monkeys". They don't usually get me (in fact, I often get them) but the fights are horribly boring. These are the folks that think because you are in an Fw...you can't knife fight with a Spit. Oh well, I know they suck.......too bad that I see the clueless masses giving them a pat on the back when they land 5 in an A5. No biggy, I always know that if I can catch them where they can't run....they become just another cupcake. :D
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1. Join mega wing squad
2. Fly horde noe mishuns to capture undefended bases
3. If any resistance is met abort and pick another.
4. Rinse, repeat....
5. Come to bbs, puff up chest and talk how 1337 teh squad is.
That's the way it appears as of late.
:noid
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Stick...
Tried to talk to you about this last time I saw you.....you weren't in a listening mood. :)
The point people like Shuff are trying to make is that the game is about more than simply "capture the flag". Lots more, in fact. Every single one of the capture the flag aspects of the game was created to enhance the combat aspects of the game. Some where along the line, the capture folks have taken the "lead" in how the game is played. Unfortunately (SRI HT...:)), the current MA game makes for a poor strategic/tactical total war simulation. There is a reason why....it was NEVER designed as one. People wanting those aspects always gravitated towards scenarios. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. These days, you don't need tactics or strategy to reset a map. All you need is numbers and a willingness to fly "rinse & repeat" suicide missions. No skill or class involved.
As for the HO discussion, they are a part of reality and, therefore, a part of the game. Too many folks use them as a crutch to make up for their unwillingness to actually learn to play the game. The ones that I complain about are those that are simply "joust monkeys". They don't usually get me (in fact, I often get them) but the fights are horribly boring. These are the folks that think because you are in an Fw...you can't knife fight with a Spit. Oh well, I know they suck.......too bad that I see the clueless masses giving them a pat on the back when they land 5 in an A5. No biggy, I always know that if I can catch them where they can't run....they become just another cupcake. :D
Nice post NB.
Thie whole discussion is a cascading effect of ignroance. Serously. These gameplay issues are almost always a matter of context. In one context, the issue might be a perfectly valid tactic. In another context, the issue might be a poor choice, or worse yet, taken to extremes it may have a bad effect on overall gameplay.
The cascade effect starts when people chime in who are completely ignorant of the context, and have no knowledge base about the nuances that make an action perfectly valid in one instance, and stupid or bad for AH's overall gameplay in another instance. Then they start arguing among themselves, neither side truely understanding what they're talking about.
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A wise fella once explained it to me this way. "I pay $15 just like everyone else"
I hear lots of people talk about the spirit of the game and such. Mostly from the sit on the porch and tell the kids to get out of my yard types. Regardless of the original intentions or wishes of the so called vets, fact remains that bases are able to be captured and the only way to a new map is to capture the correct % of them. Three sets of lancs can fly noe and level a town, or they can climb to 15k feet and do the same. Does it really matter. Frankly you have better and quicker shot most likely if they are on the deck. I've seen some of the best scrums ever take place when one group tries to take a base and I've been on both sides of it. I've successfully defended a base from a horde of 6 or 7 and i have also been stopped by a lower number of defenders. It's all relative. Oddly enough the same people I've seen whining about how the opposing group operates, I've also seen participating in the same tactics with their countrymen. Que sera sera!
I agree with those who can't stand someone in a turn fighter complaining you won't come down and foolishly try to turn when not in one. On the same token, those who climb to 20 billion feet and get peeved when someone won't climb up are the same.
As far as hoing is concerned. I hate, I don't like to do it, I've had to on occasion and I try to avoid it as much as possible. Sometimes I can, other times I cannot. I feel its slightly justified when you're going up against someone you know is a chronic hoer! Obviously the best advice is to not put yourself in the situation to be hoed and you will no longer have a problem. HOWEVER!! if you are in a 2 or 3 or more on 1 situation and you are the 1 and you get hoed by one of the others, well that's just classless, in poor taste and outright retarded!
You could argue every situation this game provides until you are blue in the face and older than dirt.
I like what CashO had to say I think he hit it dead on.
Everyone has their opinion and will think differing opinions are plain wrong while those differing opinions will think their opinion is also wrong and this sentence can run on and on and on until you get the point if you haven't already then clearly you are misinformed and do not understand!
That being said I enjoy the base taking aspect of the game. Helps to give it a bit more realism than it already has. Sure it stinks when your bases are being gobbled up by a overwhelming force but the law of averages I'm sure has evened it out. I don't officially the know the tally of what the total number of "wins" each country has had but I am willing to bet its fairly even. If someone knows this answer than please share.
There is more than one arena to play in so if you want to just dogfight, they have an arena for that.
In the end everyone pays the same money and in reality can do whatever they want with it.
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NB,
:salute The reason I'm not in a listening mood is no matter what is said or explained there is going to always be 2 sides to this coin. So no matter how much this topic is discussed, there is never going to be an agreement. So why keep going over and over it on the all channel or even here? If I want to hear non stop complaining all I need to do is take my headphones off go downstairs and ask the wife "what did I do now"? LOL
Really I see both agruments,but there will never be an agreement being both sides have viable points. But when the same guy who is complaining about game play goes and hangs out at a field where some new guy keeps lifting and then keeps killing him while said new guy is in awe of this guys skill..... well it seems the pot is calling the kettle black.
Granted alot of people wish for "the good ole days" but I hate to say those days are gone. Either accept things the way they are and accept the changes, or people are just gonna be miserable and take thier misery out on others.
Like I said in a previous thread I enjoy myself each time I log on regardless of who's doing what. I feel sad for those who log on to something that should be fun and they have such a miserable time.
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This whole discussion is a cascading effect of ignroance. Serously. These gameplay issues are almost always a matter of context. In one context, the issue might be a perfectly valid tactic. In another context, the issue might be a poor choice, or worse yet, taken to extremes it may have a bad effect on overall gameplay.
The cascade effect starts when people chime in who are completely ignorant of the context, and have no knowledge base about the nuances that make an action perfectly valid in one instance, and stupid or bad for AH's overall gameplay in another instance. Then they start arguing among themselves, neither side truely understanding what they're talking about.
...I can just keep doing this until someone wants to dispute it.
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I'd like to dispute the fact that we're disputing the facts that we disputed while we were in a dispute!
I believe this should end the debate!
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee46/presto731/Bunny_with_a_Pancake_on_Its_Headash.jpg)
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I agree with those who can't stand someone in a turn fighter complaining you won't come down and foolishly try to turn when not in one. On the same token, those who climb to 20 billion feet and get peeved when someone won't climb up are the same.
While I may comment on the rest of your post...this lil gem really stood out. Mostly because I remember you whining at me for not going toe to toe with your zero in my P47. Keep wearin' the pancake...it works for you. :rofl
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Is it just me, or are the EW/MW "aces" really funny to watch?
(not directed at you NB :))
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-Have respect for your opponent, Don't assume things that aren't true.
-Honourable exchanges win or lose.
- and above all else have FUN.
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NB,
:salute The reason I'm not in a listening mood is no matter what is said or explained there is going to always be 2 sides to this coin. So no matter how much this topic is discussed, there is never going to be an agreement. So why keep going over and over it on the all channel or even here? If I want to hear non stop complaining all I need to do is take my headphones off go downstairs and ask the wife "what did I do now"? LOL
Really I see both agruments,but there will never be an agreement being both sides have viable points. But when the same guy who is complaining about game play goes and hangs out at a field where some new guy keeps lifting and then keeps killing him while said new guy is in awe of this guys skill..... well it seems the pot is calling the kettle black.
Granted alot of people wish for "the good ole days" but I hate to say those days are gone. Either accept things the way they are and accept the changes, or people are just gonna be miserable and take thier misery out on others.
Like I said in a previous thread I enjoy myself each time I log on regardless of who's doing what. I feel sad for those who log on to something that should be fun and they have such a miserable time.
Stick...
I'm not wishing for the good ole days. I simply have been around long enough to know just how much better this game can be. On a related note, do you know how HT views complaints about headons and the gunnery system? He says, "I designed a very realistic gunnery system. It's not my fault that people use it in an unrealistic way." (this was paraphrased to prevent damage to my spell checker). In point of fact, the same could be said for MA game play these days. The only way the MA game becomes valid, as a capture the flag game, is if HT institutes draconian side balancing measures. But, that won't happen because capture the flag isn't the point of the MA.
As for your analogy about someone big dealing it because the can vultch the same newby over and over, I find it insulting. If that is what you think I do....we have misjudge each other.
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Is it just me, or are the EW/MW "aces" really funny to watch?
(not directed at you NB :))
Of course it isn't. I'm no "ace"....everyone I kill simply sucks more than I do. :aok
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Of course it isn't. I'm no "ace"....everyone I kill simply sucks more than I do. :aok
bahahaha....you and I both brotha
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"Bunny with pancake on his head" :rofl, that's great :lol
:salute
BigRat
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"Bunny with pancake on his head" :rofl, that's great :lol
:salute
BigRat
Almost as good as watching you auger :)
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Almost as good as watching you auger :)
Now that's not nice :cry. Besides I'm not really augering, the planes service life just expired :lol
:salute
BigRat
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Now that's not nice :cry. Besides I'm not really augering, the planes service life just expired :lol
:salute
BigRat
OOOOOOOOH I see now :)
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To add to this if you don't mind....I like the turn guys who complain about being ho'ed by the Pony's, F4U's etc.
You DO realize that either forcing or accepting a head on pass with your popular turners is supremely stupid since most of them (Spit, N1K, Hurricane, even the Zeke) have cannon armament and can either destroy or put your plane out of a fight quite easily with a HO? Why take such an abysmal risk when you can extend from them whenever you like?
I'll admit that some, HurrIIc and N1Ks especially, seem to think swapping ends and HOing is a guns defense, even when it is 1v1 and they have plenty of energy for other options. This is annoying and tempts one to respond in kind. However, in the long run you are better off learning to avoid and turn their HO attempt against them.
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Uptown,
I have asked the same question and you know what you will never get a straight answer.
A squad I was flying with even got told that they took a base "the wrong way".
People will sit there and tell ya your doing it wrong without any idea of what they consider "the right way" even is.
lol stick ... your squad was told nothing ... the two dive bombing 24 pilots were told that was lame. I know you condone those things and that's fine. But it does not make it any better than lame. Some squads pretty much accept anyone and everyone regardless of how they play. That is fine too. Just don't expect to gain any respect in that type of play.
You can go bowling and throw the ball three lanes over and make a strike..... but that doesn't make it right.
One thing they can do is go to the TA and a trainer will be glad to teach them how to bomb.
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PROPER HONORABLE AH2 FLIGHT GUIDE:
take off in P40B.. no tard planes now.. Check :aok
stay below 8K.. no alt monkeys here.. Check :aok
Do not engage anyone below you.. no pickers here.. Check :aok
Do not engage anyone who is on climbout (see picker) Check :aok
Do not engage someone egressing/RTB Check :aok
Do not engage someone who is engaged or has been engage, or will be engaged.. no picking Check :aok
Should you find yourself in a losing fight, do not egress, No runners here... proceede to die Check :aok
Should you take damage, lose engine, oil fuel.. do not egress (see above) Check :aok
Should you acquire 2 or more kills, either ditch or die, only score tards who want to see their name in lights land kills Check :aok
Should you find yourself over an enemy airfield with no cons above it, leave immediately.. picker status imminent Check :aok
Should you find yourself trying to take off from a base and you keep getting vulched before you can start your engine.. thats good, you are no coward.. proceede to die Check :aok
Do not try and take a base, that is not what the game is about Check :aok
Do not furball, that is not what the game is about Check :aok
Never open you chute.. spy Check :aok
Never make wierd posts making fun of people who take this game way too seriousley... uh ho :O
:devil :devil
:salute
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I fly the Pony with the tactics that better suit the abilities of my chosen ride and I really don't see any fault in that. So if I HO you guys in your turn planes quit sending me nasty messages because I'm not sorry and I want answer you! :P
If you HO in a pony you are not using tactics that suit the ability of your chosen ride.
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PROPER HONORABLE AH2 FLIGHT GUIDE:
snip
you know me better than I thought
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While I may comment on the rest of your post...this lil gem really stood out. Mostly because I remember you whining at me for not going toe to toe with your zero in my P47. Keep wearin' the pancake...it works for you. :rofl
I may have said it to you at the time, chances are I was trying to pick a fight since I wouldn't been able to catch ya! I'm not a complainer by trade. In fact I freely admit I'm a marginal dogfighter at best.
As for Shuff, believe it or not I could have easily climbed to whatever height you deemed appropriate and dropped your hangers just the same. In fact I would be willing to bet you its much easier to do so. Dive bombing in buffs isn't as easy as it looks.
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As for your analogy about someone big dealing it because the can vultch the same newby over and over, I find it insulting. If that is what you think I do....we have misjudge each other
NB.....
Just to set things straight..... I am Definitely not talking about you in that quote.
Some one else gets that honor.
You have been a great opponent as well as a wingman.
Sorry you thought I was talking about you. None of my post were directed to or about you...again someone else has that honor
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ok, WHAT THE HECK IS THE BIG DEAL WITH THE HOs. I understand its a "newb" move and what have you but, my god you people are whiners, if you see a plane coming straight for you with better guns you move out of the way, I don't know how many times a game i get out fo the way of ho-er, its usally not all that difficult.
and who wrote the rule book and said you not allowed to do that, if you have the shot take it, thats the point of the game, i personally dont blatantly fly straight into people because thats not how I fly, but in the course of a furball with someone if a head on shot presents itself im going to take it because that would mean I get a big hit on him, maybe even shooting him down, thus achieving the purpose of dogfighting shooting the other guy down
Even though the HEAD-ON shot was used quite extensively in WWII - (see biographies about Bong and other aces . . .), I think that the main reason it is frowned on in AH is because back in the "Good 'ole" days of Air Warrior, HO shots were almost totally disabled or programmed to have a very low damage result. THen when AW folded and the old "vets" came to AH, they were conditioned not to HO, and frowned on those who did. As the newer players entered the game, and tried to emulate their heroes, it became an unwritten rule that HOing was bad. Even though people harp about "realism", you aren't supposed to use a tactic that was actually used in WWII.
Yes, the fights are more fun if you don't HO and actually try to use ACM and your plane's strong points to get behind and shoot down the other guy,but to call it "dweebish" or "lame" is kind of ridiculous when it was used in real-life.
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The Thach weave was a HO manuver.
http://homepage.eircom.net/~frontacs/WBStored/ThachWeave.html
The summer of 1941, Thach's Fighting Three went ashore at NAS San Diego to reequip with Grumman F4F-3 Wildcats. This gave Thach much more opportunity to test new ideas. He liked to simulate various flying formations by laying out matchsticks on the kitchen table of his home in nearby Coronado--often a relaxing diversion before retiring for the night. The next day he would try his ideas in the the air. While he was at San Diego, information reached Thach from the Fleet Air Tactical Unit describing the new Japanese Zero carrier fighter. The FATU Intelligence Bureau of 22 September 1941 gave the Zero a top speed of between 345 and 380mph, a cruise of between 210 and 250mph, and an armament of two 20mm cannons and two 7.7mm machineguns. Thach also may have seen other estimates, emanating from Claire Chennault in China. Chennault possessed firsthand experience in battling the Zero. he rated its top speed at 322mph, but more important, warned fo the Mitsubishi's incredible manueverability and high climb rate. At atny rate, the estimates sketched a formidable opponent, if one gave any credence to them. Thach was inclined to credit the reports he saw, as he felt they appeared to have been written by a fighter pilot. It was not comforting that the potential energy might already possess a fighter that could outperform the F4F-3s just reaching the squadron.
"Faced with the possibility of encountering fighters that were faster, more maneuverable and swift climbers, Thach began thinking of tactics to overcome these vital advantages. Out came the matchsticks in earnest. He concentrated on developing a cruise formation that would offer protection en route to battle, the time when his fighters would be most vunerable to surprise attack from above. In dealing with an attacking fighter, the defender has two basic options: turn away and run, or head into his assailant to counterattack or try spoiling his aim. In fighting a Zero such as described, Thach knew it would be suicidal to break away unless the defender had a hell of a long lead. Thus the crux of the problem lay in developing a maneuver in which the defender, in deciding to stay and fight, could line up a shot on the attacker. Because of extensive training in deflection shooting, Thach felt confident his pilots could score hits, even if offered only snap bursts at fleeting targets.
"Thach made his breakthrough when he decided to deploy the two sectons abreast of each other at a distance at least equal to the tactical diameter (turning radius) of the F4F Wildcat. Once he assumed this formation, he saw many opportunities for the defender. Being abreast of one another, the sections had good lookout, particularly over the tail of the opposite pair. Thach evolved a lookout doctrine in which the section on the right watch above and behind the left squadron, and, similarly, the pair on the left observed the tail of the right section. They could warn each other of imminent attacks by signals, hastend by the fact they were already looking in each other's direction!
" In terms of dealing with attacks, all four planes could fire on enemy fighters executing opposite (head-on) attacks. If the enemy charged in from above and behind, one section could turn to shoot at any fighters bouncing the other section. Thach quickly determined that the best procedure was to have the section that spotted an attacker going after the other section, itself turn immediately toward the threatened compatriots. This would be the signal to alert the other section and would also get the two counterattacking planes moving in the porper direction for a shot at the enemy.Seeing the other section turn toward them, the section in dangeer would know they were about to be attacked. Their reaction would be to turn toward the other section and set up a scissors with them. This maneuver would help spoil the aim of the attackers and give the defenders time to work thier counter. If the attacker pulled out early, then the unattacked section would get a side shot at him. If the attacker maneuvered to follow his targets around in their turn, then the unattacked section could line up a head-on run. Now this was mutual defense!
" Thach was very excited and eager to present his discovery to the squadron."
The First Team
Pacific Naval Air Combat from Pearl Harbour to Midway
pp480-481
John B Lundstrom
Naval Institute Press
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So, can someone tell me the correct way to interact in the game.
The correct way is to have fun....... After all these years of playing flight sims I still do. I started back in the dark days of Airwarrior at $5.00+ an hour. I look at AH today and I see all the things we was asking way back them....
Arena's with 100's of players.... A butt load of planes to fly..... Ships that move..... Many tanks that can maned and fight..... Maps with lots of terrain to fight over (and if you like, you can make maps too).... Vox... All kinds of stuff to bomb, from the other players to, field targets, tanks, factories, buildings within a city, Trains, Convoys, and Barges.... Ships.... And you can capture territory through the use of air, land and sea power winning the map reset.
Why would I not have fun.
HTC placed few rules on the game and I like it that way. I do have few rules of my own.
I try to be one of the good guys in the game, but don't care if you like the the way I fight.
I do not like FT/TT in the main arena's, but i don't %$# with them. I play by the "rules" if I play there.
I never tuned to CH. 200.
And never feel the need to go to the DA if someone is mad at me.
CAVALRY
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The fact is that if we were to set up some sort of "HOing" contest between various fighters, 90% of the time it would end up with one plane destroyed and the other either destroyed or too damaged to continue effectively. Therefore HOing unless you are in a situation where you are a dead man flying anyway is an illogical and unproductive way to fight. THAT is why it is so frowned upon...because if everybody went for it all the time there would be almost no fights and most people's sorties would be very short.
8 .303s is too dangerous a gun package to fly right into and the firepower levels go up from there. People who HO habitually either are so bad that is the only way they can go 1/1 on the K/D ratio, or, more commonly, they are banking on the other person trying to avoid mutually-assured-destruction so they have a chance of a cheap so-called "FQ" shot kill.
Keep in mind they didn't have icons and on a true head-on course, an airplane could go from "What's that speck on the windscreen" to filling the windscreen "Oh %@%$!!!" and past in a twinkling, giving far less time to observe and decide to HO in any accurate manner.
Even though the HEAD-ON shot was used quite extensively in WWII - (see biographies about Bong and other aces . . .), I think that the main reason it is frowned on in AH is because back in the "Good 'ole" days of Air Warrior, HO shots were almost totally disabled or programmed to have a very low damage result. THen when AW folded and the old "vets" came to AH, they were conditioned not to HO, and frowned on those who did. As the newer players entered the game, and tried to emulate their heroes, it became an unwritten rule that HOing was bad. Even though people harp about "realism", you aren't supposed to use a tactic that was actually used in WWII.
Yes, the fights are more fun if you don't HO and actually try to use ACM and your plane's strong points to get behind and shoot down the other guy,but to call it "dweebish" or "lame" is kind of ridiculous when it was used in real-life.
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After re reading this thread once again, I'd like to add to things like the rinse and repeat on taking dwn ords.
(I need to use this as an example NB again this is not directed towards ya)
Yes people do over and over runs to take dwn ords..... but why? Usually is stems from cause and effect.
One county is running massive bomber raids, dropping everthing in sight going from base to base. How do you counter this? By making run after run to take dwn their ords.
Another example.....massive GV raids over and over......How do you counter? Run after run to take dwn troops.
So really the base taking aspect is the cause of gameplay that's called lame.
So lets get rid of everything except fighters and no base taking.
Is this what we want?
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The Thach weave was a HO manuver.
http://homepage.eircom.net/~frontacs/WBStored/ThachWeave.html
No, it was not a maneuver to force a Head On engagement or shot.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Weave_plain.svg/342px-Weave_plain.svg.png)
Here is a video of the maneuver as illustrated by some History Channel show
Thach Weave (http://link.history.com/services/link/bcpid1610679540/bclid1600116545/bctid1531241345)
Here is another diagram with a 4 plane formation
(http://images.absoluteastronomy.com/images/topicimages/t/th/thach_weave.gif)
Another diagram to show the maneuver and you can clearly see that it in no way is a head on maneuver.
(http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/media/gallery/document/ThachJames_Weave_f.jpg)
ack-ack
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Even though the HEAD-ON shot was used quite extensively in WWII - (see biographies about Bong and other aces . . .)
At least in the PTO, US pilots were taught that the easiest way to make a Japanese fighter break was to go for a head on shot. The reason was that the Japanese pilots actually thought lowly of using Head On shots, thought it was beneath the 'samurai fighting spirit' and would usually break off at the first signs of a head on attempt by US planes.
Kind of interesting that the country that most personified the 'furballer's mentality' were the Japanese.
ack-ack
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Well, I try to avoid Ho'in people, but sometimes that is the
only way they come at you.. Repeatedly!!!
If circumstances put me nose to nose with someone, I throw
the nose dip a couple times to let them know I'm a Non Ho guy...
But geez, they do it anyway.. Not all, but MOST do...
I try to get under their nose, and throw in a barrel roll to
dodge the gunfire, cross my fingers just for luck.. Then
a hard 180 hook onto their tail.. Works most times, not always..
But when ya drop your nose, it shows a HUGE 3/4 target aspect
to them.. A good shot won't miss it.. They call it a deflection shot..
Hmmm, whatever!!! I still call it a Ho... Because it resulted from a Ho..
Lately, I just Ho'em back, doesn't matter anyway.. But then it sucks
when the guy turns out to be a good flyer, not a weenie, and I Ho'ed
him... Embarrassing!! So I text him, apologize, and tell him that, "If I
knew it was you, I wouldn't have taken the Ho shot"..
What else can ya do?
You tell me what is the correct way to play out that scenario..
RC
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-Have respect for your opponent,
-Don't assume things that aren't true.
-Honourable exchanges win or lose.
- and above all else have FUN.
Bruv said it the best. Those two words that I bolded cover just about everything. The only other thing I would add is
-Fight the fight
Don't cut corners to "game the game". Use whats there the way it was intended. Lancs don't dive bomb, HO are lame, and spawn camping is too.
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After re reading this thread once again, I'd like to add to things like the rinse and repeat on taking dwn ords.
(I need to use this as an example NB again this is not directed towards ya)
Yes people do over and over runs to take dwn ords..... but why? Usually is stems from cause and effect.
One county is running massive bomber raids, dropping everthing in sight going from base to base. How do you counter this? By making run after run to take dwn their ords.
Another example.....massive GV raids over and over......How do you counter? Run after run to take dwn troops.
So really the base taking aspect is the cause of gameplay that's called lame.
So lets get rid of everything except fighters and no base taking.
Is this what we want?
Stick...
I've never actually seen the "defensive" ord take down you are talking about. What I see over and over and over and over...(you get the picture :)) is invariably the prelude to a gv attack. One guy comes in and kills the vh and ords (dying in the process) and will be back rolling to town with his buds in a few minutes. It isn't about a fight. It is about insuring that there is no fight to prevent them from capturing the field.
I see it as a bit like the steriods/baseball stuff from the late '90s. Taking steriods wasn't strictly against the rules. But, certainly was against the spirit of the rules. It did give a competitive advantage to the players that didn't do it. For me...it qualifies as "lame". :)
Once again, base taking isn't lame. Planes and/or ground vehicles aren't lame. It's people and how they chose to use these things that can be lame.
Having played the game with and against you, I did find it a bit surprising that you chose the side of this argument that you did. I don't remember anyone with a clue ever trying to accuse you of lame gameplay. So, I can only guess that you are defending someone else. If that is the case, I can only suggest that you teach them to play the game with the same spirit and class that you do....and the "problem" will go away. :rock
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No, it was not a maneuver to force a Head On engagement or shot.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Weave_plain.svg/342px-Weave_plain.svg.png)
Here is a video of the maneuver as illustrated by some History Channel show
Thach Weave (http://link.history.com/services/link/bcpid1610679540/bclid1600116545/bctid1531241345)
Here is another diagram with a 4 plane formation
(http://images.absoluteastronomy.com/images/topicimages/t/th/thach_weave.gif)
Another diagram to show the maneuver and you can clearly see that it in no way is a head on maneuver.
(http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/media/gallery/document/ThachJames_Weave_f.jpg)
ack-ack
http://www.centuryinter.net/midway/appendix/appendixfourteen_usvftac.html
Fighting Three and the Beam Defense
LCDR John S. Thach was already considered one of the Navy's better pilots and tacticians in the summer of 1941. However, it was what he did after that that turned him into a legend not only within the Navy but within the entire military aviation community.
In July of that year Thach and the rest of Fighting Three were in San Diego to exchange their Brewster F2A-3s for Grumman F4F-3 Wildcats. While in San Diego Thach learned of Japan's new carrier based fighter, the Mitsubishi A6M2 Zero. Information from the Fleet Air Tactical Unit reported phenomenal performance: a top speed of between 345 and 380 mph, cruising speeds of between 210 and 250 mph equipped with 20mm and 7.7mm guns. Reports coming from the American Volunteer Group in China showed less speed (about 320 mph), but told of an exceptional rate of climb (3500 feet/minute) and maneuverability. This worried Thach because his potential enemy already had a plane that could out fly what he was just getting.
Thach had already developed a habit of using matchsticks to test new ideas. With the news from FATU and China, he spent many a night with matchsticks spread out over his kitchen table. He was most interested in developing a new formation that would counter the Zero's maneuverability and allow the F4F to get shots while maintaining a defensive position.
Even before coming up with his "beam defense" position, Thach came to the conclusion that two two-plane sections were better equipped to engage fighters than divisions of six. Armed with that, Thach considered several ideas:
Four-plane divisions in close formation.
Four-plane division with sections split one behind the other.
Neither of these options were successful. The closeness of the tight formation offered little advantage over a six-plane division that was already in use. The split section formation was better. It would require the attackers pick only one section to attack. That left them vulnerable to counterattack by the un-attacked section. However, the sections were still too close together to provide effective mutual defense.
Thach was determined to find a solution to the Zero problem. And he did just that. Thach deployed the sections abreast of each other at a distance that represented the turning radius of the aircraft. Immediately he saw the incredible possibilities of his new formation.
Because of the position of the fighters, the opposing sections had an excellent view of the other, particularly the vulnerable tail. And, since they were already looking at each other, hand signals would be readily seen and reacted upon.
When fighters engaged from the rear, the one section should be able to shoot the attackers off the other. However, to take advantage of this and make best use of the "beam defense position," Thach needed to develop a lookout doctrine. This doctrine would differentiate the "Thach Weave" from later and less formal tactics (called "bastard weaves" collectively). Since each section was already looking behind their opposite section, the easiest way to warn of an attack on the opposite section was to simply turn towards it. Upon seeing the opposite section turning towards them, the attacked section would turn into them and set up a scissors. At this point, the attacker has two choices- press home his attack and risk a head-on attack, or break off and offer a long range shot by the un-attacked sections.
The idea worked well with match sticks. Now he needed a real world test. In this test Thach and three others would fly F4Fs with their throttles wired to reduce their power usage. Four additional F4Fs under LT(jg) Edward H. "Butch" O'Hare, a future Medal of Honor winner, would oppose Thach, with no restrictions on their performance. This would give O'Hare's men a performance advantage over Thach that would roughly simulate what he could expect going up against Japanese Zeroes.
O'Hare and his men tried virtually every type of attack and were repeatedly discouraged by Thach and his countermoves. In spite of flying a better airplane, O'Hare simply could not get in a good shot without risking the defenders getting an equally good shot. Thach had hit upon the most significant new tactic of aerial combat.
Despite the obvious advantages in this new formation and doctrine, ComAirBatFor did not accept the new tactic into other squadrons. Halsey did, however, give his official blessing to Thach and Fighting 3 to continue to use it.
During Fighting Three's only combat tour previous to Midway, in the spring of 1942, the squadron encountered no aerial fighter opposition and therefore did not get a chance to test out the "Thach Weave." After leaving Lexington in April, Fighting Three was reorganized, and Thach lost most of his veteran pilots. Necessitated with rebuilding his squadron from square one and only five pilots permanently assigned, he began teaching his charges the basics at NAS Kaneohe in May. With rookie ENS Robert A. M. Dibb and experienced NAPs from Fighting Two, MACHs Doyle C. Barnes and Tom F. Cheek, Thach began his training. With Thach and Dibb comprising one section and Barnes and Cheek the other, two Army Air Force P-39's were assigned the task of "attacking" the F4F-4s of Fighting Three. These two pilots experienced the same frustration that O'Hare had several months before.
The third week of May brought a virtual end to the training on the "beam defense position" with the addition of seven new Ensigns to the squadron. Instead, Thach needed to concentrate on teaching basics of gunnery and fighter tactics. However, he did get in a few sessions, and added to his lookout doctrine. If necessary, the rookies were told to radio, "There is one on your tail!" to set up the scissors with the other section.
The frantic absorption of many Fighting Forty-Two veterans into VF-3 meant that Thach had virtually no time to teach his new tactic, and no hope of employing it in large numbers on the upcoming cruise to Midway on Yorktown. However, he did hope to fly an escort mission comprised of two divisions of four, with the second division led by MACH Cheek. This way, the two experienced division leaders could use the radio to instruct the other two pairs by radio. As it turned out, Thach led six fighters, one division of four that flew top cover for Torpedo Three, and one section led by Cheek that flew close escort for the torpedo planes. As described in more detail on Midway, June 4, Thach's division, after the initial loss of one plane, slipped into the weave. In spite of terrible odds and an inexperienced wingman, Thach and his men shot down four A6Ms and damaged at least two more without further loss. Considering the three men were outnumbered five or six-to-one, the results were spectacular and demonstrated conclusively that the "Thach Weave" worked. Cheek's section shot down two additional Zeroes and damaged others, even though they were not able to use the weave.
After being proven at Midway, Thach went on to work with the Bureau of Aeronautics (or BuAer) to add his "beam defense position" into official doctrine. While best used with two two-plane sections, the "Thach Weave" could be employed by anything from individual aircraft to divisions of four planes. The keys were flying abreast, proper spacing, proper lookout doctrine and scissoring at the right moment. Throughout 1942 and 1943, Thach and Jimmy Flatley, who fell in love with the weave at Santa Cruz in October 1942, (Flatley and three other pilots, having returned from a strike escort mission on 26 October, used the weave at 50 percent power to keep Zeroes off until the fuel starved fighters could land safely on Enterprise) began training a new generation of pilots in the use of the "Thach Weave."
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Having played the game with and against you, I did find it a bit surprising that you chose the side of this argument that you did. I don't remember anyone with a clue ever trying to accuse you of lame gameplay. So, I can only guess that you are defending someone else. If that is the case, I can only suggest that you teach them to play
NB,
Things have gotton twisted a bit here lol
My whole argument was That there is no winning the argument of who right or wrong when it comes to game play. Some where in this whole mess it seems that I am taking sides or defending a certain type of game play. Which I'm not and sorry if came across that way.
Now I've gotta laugh cause all I was trying to say I was getting so tired of Shuffler going on and on about the right way to play the game this weekend and that being no one is going to agree to whats right or wrong _Please shut up about it already.
From Sat night through super bowl time Sunday , every time I logged back on .....well it was like I had never left....... the same conversation and comments were still going. I was getting down right annoying.
Like I said in my 1st post, I get on line to escape that kind of endless complaining.... by Sun afternoon I had had anASSfull of it.
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lol Stick I never said right way or wrong way.. that is what you said. I never said anything to you in the first place. I said something to the two folks dive bombing in 24s. I told them they should learn to fly them proper and not have to dive bomb and that dive bombing is lame in 24s. Then you stepped in and started defending them. So what NB said is actually fact and not some misunderstanding.
You know you can say what you do all the time... but it is actually what you do that people will go by.
Before this I never had any cross words with you but I have to disagree with your stand on supporting lame play. It is not healthy for the community as a whole.
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Going to say it just one more time for those with hard hearing.....
I really don't care how any one plays the game. I won't agree or disagree.
Because depending on who you talk to both ways are right and at the same time both ways are wrong. But you will never have both sides agree.So why waste the energy discussing it over and over?
That's all I was trying to convey this whole time.
One side will say killing sheep is lame because..... Then the other side will say killing sheep isn't lame because.....
Both sides whole heartily believe that their reasoning is correct and neither side will budge from their opinion.
So why even try to discuss it?
Again this was the only point I was trying to make.
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To add to this if you don't mind....I like the turn guys who complain about being ho'ed by the Pony's, F4U's etc. My answer is why would I want to get in a turn fight with a plane I can't turn fight with. Them telling me to not BnZ is like me telling them to not BnT.....I fly the Pony with the tactics that better suit the abilities of my chosen ride and I really don't see any fault in that. So if I HO you guys in your turn planes quit sending me nasty messages because I'm not sorry and I want answer you! :P
Exactly my opinion. The only rule of war is: "Not to die for your country but make the other bas tard die for his"
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Yep....
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To add to this if you don't mind....I like the turn guys who complain about being ho'ed by the Pony's, F4U's etc. My answer is why would I want to get in a turn fight with a plane I can't turn fight with. Them telling me to not BnZ is like me telling them to not BnT.....I fly the Pony with the tactics that better suit the abilities of my chosen ride and I really don't see any fault in that. So if I HO you guys in your turn planes quit sending me nasty messages because I'm not sorry and I want answer you! :P
Actually this is a pretty good example of the lack of nuance... Absolutely you should fly to your rides strenghts, and not to the opponents strengths. But if your "flying to your 51s strengths" results in a HO so much...Then I'm not surpised you're getting grief all the time. Because that is not the result I see from good pony sticks. It sounds to me like you're doing something other than flying to its strengths.
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Exactly my opinion. The only rule of war is: "Not to die for your country but make the other bas tard die for his"
And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair. While war is not ment to be either fair or fun.
(...out of context, but I couldn't resist) :D
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(...out of context, but I couldn't resist) :D
:rofl that pretty much hits the nail n the head.
Too many get too serious about the game. Many have no ethics. Many say there are no ethics in a game.... but actually it is just those few with no ethics.
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Just fly Balls out, all the time. All you ever need to do for just about anything.
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turn off 200 and just talk to your squad m8's on vox or ventrillo. play anyway that makes you have a smile on your face and when someone does something dumb walk away.....
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Yes a Game, a Simulation of real war where the consequence of lead was final. Those that choose to play this game play by the rules set by the host not the rules a player or players would impose on others as the "right way to play". If you enjoy the HO then HO. There are ways to avoid it. You enjoy gaming the game to see your name in lights Enjoy yourself. Only you can ruin your day. Kill or be killed is the key ingredient for the Fighter scores so don't tell me it's not a Simulation of war where that was the rule.
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Yes a Game, a Simulation of real war where the consequence of lead was final. Those that choose to play this game play by the rules set by the host not the rules a player or players would impose on others as the "right way to play". If you enjoy the HO then HO. There are ways to avoid it. You enjoy gaming the game to see your name in lights Enjoy yourself. Only you can ruin your day. Kill or be killed is the key ingredient for the Fighter scores so don't tell me it's not a Simulation of war where that was the rule.
:rofl
ooh let me catch my breath
:rofl :rofl
Let me just add. We'll make it more realistic for ya... Next time you receive a pilot wound, have someone hit ya with a bat.
:rofl
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Catch your breath baby space ball when you grow up you can take a deep breath. :D
and maybe have something to contribute to a discussion.
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Catch your breath baby space ball when you grow up you can take a deep breath. :D
Looks like you already tried the bat idea... one too many head injuries? :aok
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To add to this if you don't mind....I like the turn guys who complain about being ho'ed by the Pony's, F4U's etc. My answer is why would I want to get in a turn fight with a plane I can't turn fight with. Them telling me to not BnZ is like me telling them to not BnT.....I fly the Pony with the tactics that better suit the abilities of my chosen ride and I really don't see any fault in that. So if I HO you guys in your turn planes quit sending me nasty messages because I'm not sorry and I want answer you! :P
Heh, if you only fly B&Z in the game, I think it's silly to use the "I'll fly my plane's strength" argument. Sure, you're flying to the P51's strength, but that's all you fly! The choice to fly B&Z has nothing to do with the plane, it has to do with the player since he chose the plane.
It should be noted though that there are plenty of good sticks who fly B&z'er planes and turn them.
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so don't tell me it's not a Simulation of war where that was the rule.
Yes I did tilt, it has always been as I have said.
We make a game around WWII planes and vehicles. We do not try to simulate WWII. Simulation of WWII is one of CT's goal's. Then things like ho's start to be used much more like they were in the war. Once there is a substatial penalty on death. And you can win with out shooting down the other guy. Then the choice of to HO or not becomes a very diffferent equation.
But if you try taylor things in the main to be a recreation of WWII tatics, you start to run into major fun limiting restrictions.
AutoPilot: Where does our banner in anyway contradict what I have said. In fact we choose those words very precisly to not give the impression we were a simulation of WWII.
Other wise instead of saying the Preimer WWII combat experiance, we would have said the Preiemer WWII simlation.
HiTech
Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.
This is a false assumption.
The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.
HiTech
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Also while we're talking about Ponies:
Those of you that BnZ in a Pony and use the "flying it to its strenghts" or whatever...have you ever tried turnfighting it?
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snip
Where have I seen those before? :noid
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Yes a Game, a Simulation of real war where the consequence of lead was final. Those that choose to play this game play by the rules set by the host not the rules a player or players would impose on others as the "right way to play". If you enjoy the HO then HO. There are ways to avoid it. You enjoy gaming the game to see your name in lights Enjoy yourself. Only you can ruin your day. Kill or be killed is the key ingredient for the Fighter scores so don't tell me it's not a Simulation of war where that was the rule.
Murdr quoted the owner and developer of Aces High. I think he knows what he was making.
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I've given up on this issue pretty much. The tards are going to continue flying like tards with their heads stuck in the sand like a bunch of ostridges and never ever listen to a word of reason... it's their $15, they can do whatever they want, no consideration for the bigger picture. As HT has said many times the problem is that of the path of least resistance. Tards like this path. We can try to change this behavior all we want, but only a small few will see the light. The only viable answer is coading the tards into doing things differently.
The question is how though. Every change made has been on this note I think though. ENY, breaking up the arenas, the base order capture (failed unfortunately), has been to try to alter that path of least resistance. However each time the tards (I guess I'm being harsh here, because a huge majority of them are just don't know any better. It's the seasoned vets who I refer to as the true tards who lead others to this base level) find a way around and the status quo doesn't change.
I hope Dale tries something radical. Now that CT is out of the way and all attention is back on the MA, lets shake it up and try some new things. Different strat, modified and more penal ENY/ Zone ENY, perked ords, beefing up field/town defenses more, something. Hell, even experiment with things on one map in one of the LW arenas see how it plays out. I'm sure if it's good the tards will hide in the other arena and cry about whatever changes are implemented. I say that's a good thing. I wouldn't mind losing a vast majority of the tards to restore some balance to gameplay. HT would mind it though, so it'll probably be something middle of the road if he does make changes, but please Dale, try something...
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Another case of the vocal minority, dictating to the silent majority.
Its always the same dozen or so guys too.
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There are always a few players insisting that their ways are correct and everyone else should play by the standards of those few who have a higher moral sense.
There is something in this game for everybody. Find it and shut up already.
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Boner if there wasn't an issue we never would have seen ENY, split up arenas, or a field-ordered base capture system, now would we?
Please make your answer specific to the question.
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The correct way to play AH is to tell your self, hey its my $15 and I'll play this game how ever the hell I want.
Ask any of the Flying Circus guys how I fly and they will tell you that I spend most my time flying inverted, killshooting myself while talking about having a dingleberry removed.
Just have fun....
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I hate to sound like a broken record, but these topics are all about context and if/when these issues are taken to the extreme.
HOing is not inherently "wrong". But wholesale jousting doesn't really make for all that great of a gaming experience either. The real question is what was the context of the HO? Because sometimes it is the best response for the situation, but not 100% of the time. Three vs one, and the one gets HOed down, one of those three deserve to get some grief. That's just flat out poor for the guy with that much of an advantage to be unable to manage anything better than a HO shot.
I doubt many people are thrilled to spend 7-8 minutes flying to a fight so the first plane they see can fly straight at them with the trigger mashed down. Sure, that player can do that, but I can also shine a light on it by use of the radio. See? That works both ways. You can silence my radio use, about as well as I can change your tactics....At least a first glance, but being that AH has a social side, you'll either have to address or ignore it :) The third option I guess is this merry-go-round which is complaining about the complainers :rolleyes:
I once had a fight where HiTech and I HOed each other down (he "won" by the way, because he got my pilot and I only got his wing). What was the context? Well, it wasn't flying straight at each other from 5k separation, with triggers held down from 1.5k distance. He came in on my 6 as I was finishing another plane, and after a quick succession of maneuvers we ended up coming out of opposing turns nose to nose inside of 300 yards separation. (And the result was probably karma since I vulched him about 10 minutes before that :)
I used HO as an example, but it goes for pretty much any of these topics. A good general rule is that anything taken to the extreme is probably bad for overall gameplay...Including the guys who make it sound like HO/pick/E tactics are taboo 100% of the time, and the guys who say "eff everyone its my $15".
Have to leave it at that for now...
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Well said Murdr, balance is the key.
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Boner if there wasn't an issue we never would have seen ENY, split up arenas, or a field-ordered base capture system, now would we?
Please make your answer specific to the question.
I did read the OPs question, and determined it to contain a well deserved level of sarcasm that was aimed at the vocal minority that incessently trys to dictate "how the game SHOULD be played".
So, I don't think the OP had a question, instead I think he was making a statement. And so was I.
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murdr has it correctly. now back to the game.
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Spot on Murdr. :aok
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1ST things 1st.......IT's your money, play however you wanna play, hope fully you;ll get a grin or two. 2nd- care even less what kinda pilot folks think you are,. does it matter?........and 3rdly......grab as much alt as possible, come screaming down on some unsuspecting poor bastage.....blast him to smithereeens....climb back up.....and laugh your posterior off.....thats how I have fun.... and it IS proper. :rock
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murdr has it correctly. now back to the game.
I agree, but with the amount of people that are NOW playing the game, the courtesys and honorable flying days of yore I'm afraid are gone , never to return.
You tend to see a "mob" mentality that has changed the game.
What can be done about it?
Unfortunatly, probably nothing.
Alot of the players are going for the "kill" and they don't seem to care how they get it (camping etc.).
They don't care about getting into a good fight. Its the last thing they want.
How do you change that type of thinking with such a large crowd of people?
So barring some type of radical change , I will continue playing the game the way it is, putting up with behaviors that I don,t care for, because this is still a really great game to play despite its very minor shortcomings.
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Damn Murdr...you gonna get banned if you continue to play the logic and fact cards!!!
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1ST things 1st.......IT's your money, play however you wanna play, hope fully you;ll get a grin or two. 2nd- care even less what kinda pilot folks think you are,. does it matter?........and 3rdly......grab as much alt as possible, come screaming down on some unsuspecting poor bastage.....blast him to smithereeens....climb back up.....and laugh your posterior off.....thats how I have fun.... and it IS proper. :rock
You don't seem to get it... :rolleyes:
If most of 'em would simply do that, most of the complaints would end. As it is, so many capture monkeys spend their game time hiding in the tall grass, wait for a chance to "accomplish" something without a fight. Hell, as often as not, I'm gonna salute a guy just for TRYIN' to fight...all too many won't even bother. :frown:
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Boner...
I am truly sorry that you don't get it. You come to MW and say that you and your buds come there so you can get in some fights. Kewl, I stay out of your way and try not to poach on your fights. I offer assistance when requested....and you say that none of that matters?
I could just as easily poached on all of your fights and you would be ok with that?
"I will continue playing the game the way it is, putting up with behaviors that I don,t care for, because this is still a really great game to play despite its very minor shortcomings."
Sorry, but if something is wrong...ignoring it doesn't make it better. As has been pointed out previously, if nothing was wrong we wouldn't have split arenas or the ENY/Perk point modifiers.
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I think game play issues really fall on the vets' shoulders. The longer you play, the more skilled you become, the more responsibility you have in making the game fair. If you've been playing for 10 years and all you fly is Temps, La7's, and Chogs and pick pick pick, that's very tard like. I am not bothered the least bit by the new guys B&Zing, flying La7s and spit16's (or HOing for that matter) because this is a good starting point and a great way to be competitive at your skill level. What annoys the heck out of me is vets who have been around forever still flying the uber planes, avoiding combat, and setting a bad example for other players who respect them.
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Boner...
I am truly sorry that you don't get it. You come to MW and say that you and your buds come there so you can get in some fights. Kewl, I stay out of your way and try not to poach on your fights. I offer assistance when requested....and you say that none of that matters? stay out my way? Not sure what you're talking about.
I could just as easily poached on all of your fights and you would be ok with that? Poach away if thats what floats your boat.
"I will continue playing the game the way it is, putting up with behaviors that I don,t care for, because this is still a really great game to play despite its very minor shortcomings."
Sorry, but if something is wrong...ignoring it doesn't make it better. As has been pointed out previously, if nothing was wrong we wouldn't have split arenas or the ENY/Perk point modifiers. And what would you suggest that I do to change the behaviors that "bug" me?
I never said that ignoring things would make it better.
There are so many people in this game now, its going to be virtually impossible to change "the mob rules" mentality.
So I simply try to not let it get to me, and have fun playing the game. And now theres something wrong with that too?
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Grizz brings up a valid point! :aok
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I think game play issues really fall on the vets' shoulders. The longer you play, the more skilled you become, the more responsibility you have in making the game fair. If you've been playing for 10 years and all you fly is Temps, La7's, and Chogs and pick pick pick, that's very tard like. I am not bothered the least bit by the new guys B&Zing, flying La7s and spit16's (or HOing for that matter) because this is a good starting point and a great way to be competitive at your skill level. What annoys the heck out of me is vets who have been around forever still flying the uber planes, avoiding combat, and setting a bad example for other players who respect them.
The new guy wants to get kills, any kills, to salve the desperate frustration.
Maybe the vet wants to land 23 kills in a Tempest as opposed to getting shot down with 3 in an F4F for what is deep down the same reason? :D
I don't see how anybody does nothing but pick though. There just aren't enough picks to go around. Sometimes the other guy is a !@#$!#@%% and actually tries to make you work for your kill, or worse yet, tries to kill you hisself. You can't let 'em get away with that sort of thing.
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Its your $15. There is a lot to offer in this game. It is a MMO. You can do whatever you want (except shoot down friendlies, not that anyone would want to.)
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Its your $15. There is a lot to offer in this game. It is a MMO. You can do whatever you want (except shoot down friendlies, not that anyone would want to.)
Some would pay $150.00 a month for the ability to shoot down a "friendly" time to time...
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(except shoot down friendlies, not that anyone would want to.)
You've never had the pleasure of playing AW - or even AH2 with killshooter turned off, I see.
- oldman (people will do anything)
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Some would pay $150.00 a month for the ability to shoot down a "friendly" time to time...
Some have. :)
Boner...what you do about stuff that annoys you is really your choice. I believe in trying to have a dialog in hopes that things will get better. Simply ignoring it doesn't work for me.
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One in every hundred enemies I come across doesn't HO. I usually get my arse kicked by this particular enemy.
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People who insist that the other guy is going for the HO don't think 4D. You can always use the vertical, as a matter of fact any aircraft can. Too slow? Low yo-yo. Too fast? Hi yo-yo.
Very simple, you don't always have to go straight for your enemy. You need to think 3D + time, where is he going to be at the time you have reversed from your climb to go straight down guns pointed right at him. Will he stall out before you do?
Think.
Just some general pointers, not putting anyone down or anything just saying that there's so much more to it than trying to point your guns at your opponent as quickly as you can.
Oh... and in reply to the original post. The correct way to play AH is to HAVE FUN DOING IT! Without hampering other players fun I should add. :)
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Oh... and in reply to the original post. The correct way to play AH is to HAVE FUN DOING IT! Without hampering other players fun I should add. :)
bingo, unless getting owned is not fun for them, that's just too bad.
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Some have. :)
Boner...what you do about stuff that annoys you is really your choice. I believe in trying to have a dialog in hopes that things will get better. Simply ignoring it doesn't work for me.
I also believe in trying to resolve issues with discussion.
But you can't have discussions with some people, they will not be satisfied (ie:stfu) until they get it THEIR way.
They are convinced they are right and you are wrong , and even if they got their own way, they will ALWAYS find something else to complain about.
And I think that probably holds true for both sides of the coin.
That said, I still see the same old faces,complaining about the same old things in here,and they will not stop even though I'm sure 95% of the people in the game either disagree with them or simply don't care.
Personally, I think the game is fine the way it is. There are a few issues that bug me that I'm sure could be easily resolved (spawn campers,lancstukas) but issues like HOing and punkstangs etc are just a part of the game.
You can't "force" courtesy and honorable playing standards on such a large and diverse crowd as we have here.
As much as I would like to see those standards permeate the game, I'm afraid it will never happen.
So consequently, I'm not gonna bang my head against a wall and complain about it every chance I get, it is what it is.
Enjoy it or don't.
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The fact that we got 7 pages of different views on what is appropriate game play just goes to show there is no one way to play the game. What are there, a couple thousand people paying to play? We have people from all over the world, 8 to 80, blind, crippled and crazy. Spoiled brats, know it alls,alpha males and losers. Most play to win and a few will go to ANY lengths to achieve that goal. Some get satisfaction in just getting a kill while others care about HOW they got the kill. Some want easy mode,some want hard mode.
I guess my take on the correct way to play is to realize we're playing a GAME with all types of people and personalities, likes and dislikes, and take that into consideration and just have a good time.
I'm just now coming to the conculsion that I'll never be as good as I'd like to be in this game, no matter how good my stats or rank are, I'll never get to the point where I'll win every fight everytime. And that's a good thing because if that day ever came, the challenge would be over and so would the fun of it all. :salute
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Bullseye uptown, :salute
RC
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The fact that we got 7 pages of different views on what is appropriate game play just goes to show there is no one way to play the game. What are there, a couple thousand people paying to play? We have people from all over the world, 8 to 80, blind, crippled and crazy. Spoiled brats, know it alls,alpha males and losers. Most play to win and a few will go to ANY lengths to achieve that goal. Some get satisfaction in just getting a kill while others care about HOW they got the kill. Some want easy mode,some want hard mode.
I guess my take on the correct way to play is to realize we're playing a GAME with all types of people and personalities, likes and dislikes, and take that into consideration and just have a good time.
I'm just now coming to the conculsion that I'll never be as good as I'd like to be in this game, no matter how good my stats or rank are, I'll never get to the point where I'll win every fight everytime. And that's a good thing because if that day ever came, the challenge would be over and so would the fun of it all. :salute
Sanity finally finds words.
Uptown :salute
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Agreed, well said Uptown.
:salute
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Last night I found ten ponies attacking one of our fields and when I engaged there were three coalt ponies that decided to attack and ignore me. They didnt have bombs or rockets but they did not want a long protracted fight they wanted fast kills even if it meant they died before they could get the first one. It did. :D
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I think game play issues really fall on the vets' shoulders. The longer you play, the more skilled you become, the more responsibility you have in making the game fair. If you've been playing for 10 years and all you fly is Temps, La7's, and Chogs and pick pick pick, that's very tard like. I am not bothered the least bit by the new guys B&Zing, flying La7s and spit16's (or HOing for that matter) because this is a good starting point and a great way to be competitive at your skill level. What annoys the heck out of me is vets who have been around forever still flying the uber planes, avoiding combat, and setting a bad example for other players who respect them.
Hmm, Irony comes to mind :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Actually this is a pretty good example of the lack of nuance... Absolutely you should fly to your rides strenghts, and not to the opponents strengths. But if your "flying to your 51s strengths" results in a HO so much...Then I'm not surpised you're getting grief all the time. Because that is not the result I see from good pony sticks. It sounds to me like you're doing something other than flying to its strengths.
Well as it was pointed out to me in a post after that, what I was calling a ho, and I was being accused of, is not actually ho'ing. So what I calling a Ho is actually a pick which I don't know if that is any better in the eyes of some players!
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And to add to my last post I'm 43 and have no skills and probably will never have any, but I like playing the game and I have fun at it. And I use to complain mostly to squad mates about what other players would do to me and I learned after 2 years its a game and now I just :salute them and go on with having fun, made the game a lot more enjoyable and just say sorry when I get the unpleasant PM's.
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but I like playing the game and I have fun at it.
If this is the case, I think you are playing the game correctly.
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Although saluting someone who does something lame is about equal to coming home to find someone in your home looting it and just standing aside so as to not get in the way. Oh.. shake his hand on the way out.
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Nice post NB.
Thie whole discussion is a cascading effect of ignroance. Serously. These gameplay issues are almost always a matter of context. In one context, the issue might be a perfectly valid tactic. In another context, the issue might be a poor choice, or worse yet, taken to extremes it may have a bad effect on overall gameplay.
The cascade effect starts when people chime in who are completely ignorant of the context, and have no knowledge base about the nuances that make an action perfectly valid in one instance, and stupid or bad for AH's overall gameplay in another instance. Then they start arguing among themselves, neither side truely understanding what they're talking about.
Could not have said it better.
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And to add to my last post I'm 43 and have no skills and probably will never have any, but I like playing the game and I have fun at it.
:rofl I feel your pain man. That sentence right there sums up alot for me. Here I am 44 yrs old laughing at how ridiculous some of us talk about "skills" in a video game. I got all into this video game the last few years and let my real skills I have fall to the wayside. Not many people know this about me, but I used to work in a custom hotrod shop and I can build a car from the ground up. I got a old truck in my garage I haven't worked on for 3 years because it's just easier and cheaper to sit down at my computer,escape reality and become a fighter pilot.
Yeah, I got skills. I have the nicest house on my street, bought the house next door and gave it to my mother-n-law. I got a beautiful wife that has put up with my sitting here for hours on end playing a game while she does the housework, cooks my food and mixes my drinks. I got 2 healthy wonderful boys that get all As&Bs in school and they look up to me as their hero. I got a good dog and live where you can leave the door unlocked and know the neighbors are lookin' out for me and my stuff. I'm a ole country boy. Like Hank says, I can grow tomatoes and make homemade wine. I can fix a leaky roof, dress a deer and catch fish with a milk jug, some string and a hook.
So if some faceless name whips his cartoon 109 around and shoots me in the face, is that really all that important in the grand scheme of things? This game has made me lazy and neglectful of what really matters in life. I haven't played much in the last few weeks because all this is just a distraction to what really matters. It's nice to be able to sit down and play, but even better sometimes not to. :aok
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I found it interesting that one of the driving factors of the original argument as well as the argument of it. I often hear everyone say oh hey its LW (insert whatever group or type) coming in here and ruining MW, heard it the other way as well. This statement holds true for nearly all sub arenas of the MA.
Doesn't that in itself, as evidence from everyone who has chimed in on this thread alone; some from names I've never heard of because I do not frequent their arena of choice. Bring those "others" into that very arena claiming to be "infected" Look at the stats, that’s a lot of people all with varying opinions. Not to mention those that read but never spoke.
What I find to be even more alarming is the male to female ratio in this entire forum is a staggering 44:1. Are we in Alaska?
According to the statistics at the time of this post, that would mean there are around 276 women in here. Imagine if that was halved to 22:1. There would be almost 600! Think of the “arguments you would have then.
The lesson learned form that says your math teacher was right, you will need it someday! So unless you want a bunch of woman drivers in here, (though I hear some called that a lot :D) you better quit arguing! If I’ve learned anything it’s that women will eventually always find there way to an argument!
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What I find to be even more alarming is the male to female ratio in this entire forum is a staggering 44:1. Are we in Alaska?
It's probably far worse... somehow I have the feeling relatively more men don't even care to specify their gender on the BBS. ;)