Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Serenity on February 07, 2009, 02:55:15 PM

Title: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Serenity on February 07, 2009, 02:55:15 PM
How do you manage this?!? A Guided Missile Cruiser gets stuck on the reef! I saw it from school early yesterday and knew something was wrong. Saw this on the news later last night. (Work Safe)

http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/13886/40/

"Obviously the desire was not to run aground..." -Ships Captain

I don't know if they mentioned it in these two videos, but the ship JUST got out of dry-dock (Only a month or so ago IIRC) which ran $18mil over budget!
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: caldera on February 07, 2009, 06:34:18 PM
Captain Hazelwood at it again?
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: nirvana on February 07, 2009, 07:34:52 PM
Due to tidal fluctuations and the ever changing environment it's always possible to run aground no matter how many charts or GPS units you have.  Remember those are all managed by humans at some level thus there is always room for error.  It's the same situation with aircraft, you read your instruments wrong or there is an error with your equipment and unfortunate events can occur.  It doesn't matter how new or high tech something is, there is always room the chance for error.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Serenity on February 07, 2009, 07:54:17 PM
Due to tidal fluctuations and the ever changing environment it's always possible to run aground no matter how many charts or GPS units you have.  Remember those are all managed by humans at some level thus there is always room for error.  It's the same situation with aircraft, you read your instruments wrong or there is an error with your equipment and unfortunate events can occur.  It doesn't matter how new or high tech something is, there is always room the chance for error.

That may be, but to run aground in calm seas like that, with all of the depth-finding equipment a modern cruiser is equiped with is pathetic. The waters the ship was conducting the operation in were only 2.5 feet deeper than the ships keel at HIGH tide. A margin far too slim to risk a ship like that in.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Masherbrum on February 07, 2009, 08:31:40 PM
Due to tidal fluctuations and the ever changing environment it's always possible to run aground no matter how many charts or GPS units you have.  Remember those are all managed by humans at some level thus there is always room for error.  It's the same situation with aircraft, you read your instruments wrong or there is an error with your equipment and unfortunate events can occur.  It doesn't matter how new or high tech something is, there is always room the chance for error.

Excellent post Nirvana, I hope all is well with you.

Serenity, ask Nilsen, he has personal knowledge on this type of stuff.   :devil
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Frodo on February 07, 2009, 09:30:53 PM

Serenity, ask Nilsen, he has personal knowledge on this type of stuff.   :devil


 :noid  :devil
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Nilsen on February 08, 2009, 01:37:18 AM
Its very simple gents.

If rock and ship is at the same position they will hug no matter how excellent the skipper is  :)
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Serenity on February 08, 2009, 02:03:20 AM
26 hours later, the ship is still sitting there. They FINALLY decided tonight that if they cannot get her off, they will try removing fuel from her tanks to lose about 200 tons of weight.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Masherbrum on February 08, 2009, 02:17:16 AM
Its very simple gents.

If rock and ship is at the same position they will hug no matter how excellent the skipper is  :)

 :rofl
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: nirvana on February 08, 2009, 04:26:01 AM
Like I said in my post, even the most high tech technology can't prevent a ship from grounding because of human error.  Here's an example from a few years ago up here about a cruise ship grounding: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003708404_webship15m.html
Quote
Empress of the North appeared to have hit a mapped and lighted rock early Monday morning.

It happens fairly regularly; people don't pay attention, instruments fail, wrong charts, weather etc.  I don't know what is so incredulous about this particular case.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: REP0MAN on February 08, 2009, 05:13:39 AM
It happens fairly regularly; people don't pay attention, instruments fail, wrong charts, weather etc.  I don't know what is so incredulous about this particular case.

It happened in Serenity's direct view?

Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: RTHolmes on February 08, 2009, 09:38:35 AM
Like I said in my post, even the most high tech technology can't prevent a ship from grounding because of human error.

and training is what eliminates human error - its not like it was crewed by a bunch of drunk guys on a fishing trip  :uhoh
i think they need to learn the 6 Ps: Proper Preparation Prevents Piss-Poor Performance :D
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: rogwar on February 08, 2009, 11:02:50 AM
I'll bet somebody was "relieved" and I don't mean in a relaxing sort of way.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Serenity on February 08, 2009, 02:56:38 PM
I don't know what is so incredulous about this particular case.

The fact that a multi-billion dollar top-of-the-line military ship could have wound up like this. I know it happens, but that doesn't stop it from being just... retarded.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Nilsen on February 08, 2009, 03:07:12 PM
Windows for warships?

No wait.. thats the royal navy  :)
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: RTR on February 08, 2009, 07:09:01 PM
It might have been an act of terrorism.

You guys better go "liberate" some 3rd world banana republic, just in case.

RTR
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: rshubert on February 08, 2009, 07:26:56 PM
You betcha the captain is looking at a court martial, as well as the officer of the deck.  The navy is VERY unforgiving of running their ships into stuff, including other ships, Hawaii, or whatever.  Neither officer will ever serve on board a naval vessel again.  Not never, no way.

Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Motherland on February 08, 2009, 07:29:10 PM
It might have been an act of terrorism.

You guys better go "liberate" some 3rd world banana republic, just in case.

RTR
:lol
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: 1pLUs44 on February 08, 2009, 07:41:58 PM
Like my friends dad used to say...

"only the Navy could do something like this"

:noid  :lol
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Husky01 on February 08, 2009, 07:43:48 PM
The problem appears to be that there are no windows in the ship, therefore they could not see where they where going.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: cpxxx on February 09, 2009, 03:51:52 AM
There is actually no excuse for it. A career ending situation if I ever saw one for someone.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: john9001 on February 09, 2009, 08:23:13 AM
I've put my sail boat aground a few times, it was always a navigation error on my part, fortunely it was always soft sand and i got it unstuck without assistance.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: wooly15 on February 09, 2009, 11:48:54 AM
I have no idea how this could have happened.  I have been through that channel alot on the same type of ship and find it hard to believe no one saw the reef.  The water where they are is crystal clear and your can see down a loooong way.  The draft of the ship is only 30 some odd feet and I know you can clearly see the bottom at that depth.  It amazes me with the bridge team, lookouts (everywhere on sea and anchor detail), CIC doing radar fixes, and lots of people looking at charts, they STILL hit it.  The best part is that an admiral was on board when it happened...oops
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 09, 2009, 12:58:55 PM
That may be, but to run aground in calm seas like that, with all of the depth-finding equipment a modern cruiser is equiped with is pathetic. The waters the ship was conducting the operation in were only 2.5 feet deeper than the ships keel at HIGH tide. A margin far too slim to risk a ship like that in.

Not to long ago a submarine collided with an undersea mountain.  Everyone was like you, saying with our technology and advanced navigation systems, it should never happened.  Until that is when it came out that the navigation chart that was being used didn't show the undersea mountain and the captain was cleared of any wrong doing.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: oakranger on February 09, 2009, 01:06:07 PM
Captain Hazelwood at it again?

lol.  You know that situation with that oil spill was not all Hazelwood at fault.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: pallero on February 09, 2009, 01:33:37 PM
I have no idea how this could have happened. 

Like this? *click* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQm5P2KypeE)
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: MORAY37 on February 09, 2009, 02:22:21 PM
Not to long ago a submarine collided with an undersea mountain.  Everyone was like you, saying with our technology and advanced navigation systems, it should never happened.  Until that is when it came out that the navigation chart that was being used didn't show the undersea mountain and the captain was cleared of any wrong doing.


ack-ack

Of course not Ack-ack...charts for the undersea floor are notoriously bad.........

I mean, except for the sea floor that is a mile away from PACFLT headquarters.  I imagine those charts are probably updated for that inlet pretty regular.  In fact, I'm pretty certain they update the hazards there once or twice per day.... whoever was the OoD did more than "cut the corner" on the channel.

I mean I'm just a biologist and all..... but there are waves breaking in the news pics, only another 100 feet or so in.  Albeit, the tidal difference factored in, (not very big as Hawaii lies closer to the equator than say...Norfolk) there is absolutely no reason to miss a shipping channel that badly, in calm seas, on a billion dollar warship.  With an admiral onboard.  (Someone just lost his commission.)

Sidenote:
Wasn't this ship the one involved with those Iranian powerboats in the Gulf a year or so ago?  I'm going to look it up but I think I remember it being this ship in particular.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: rpm on February 09, 2009, 03:27:40 PM
You betcha the captain is looking at a court martial, as well as the officer of the deck.  The navy is VERY unforgiving of running their ships into stuff, including other ships, Hawaii, or whatever.  Neither officer will ever serve on board a naval vessel again.  Not never, no way.


Correctamundo.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: druski85 on February 09, 2009, 03:37:43 PM
"Obviously the desire was not to run aground..." -Ships Captain

Did someone promote John Madden to captain?   "You know it comes down to scoring points.  If you score more points, you're gonna win the game."

*facepalm*

Really though, that waste of a sports commentator was the first thing that came to mind when I saw this post.  Also, in order to prevent a full hijacking, I will note that I find the whole reef > large ship situation is pretty funny :) 
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Masherbrum on February 09, 2009, 05:43:17 PM
lol.  You know that situation with that oil spill was not all Hazelwood at fault.

The hell it wasn't.
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: MiloMorai on February 09, 2009, 05:57:24 PM
Captain John Carroll was born and raised in Marshfield, Massachusetts.  He graduated from Worcester Polytechnic Institute in May 1984 and was commissioned through Officer Candidate School in October 1984.

After completing nuclear power training and surface warfare basic training, he reported to Reactor Department in USS ENTERPRISE (CVN 65) in Alameda, California.  During this tour, he deployed to the Arabian Gulf and participated in Operation PRAYING MANTIS.  Following this, Captain Carroll reported as the ASW Officer to USS LUCE (DDG 38) homeported in Mayport, Florida, deploying on counter-drug operations in the Caribbean Sea and the Eastern Pacific Ocean.

From March 1991 to September 1993, he attended Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California , earning Masters of Science and Engineer Degrees in Mechanical Engineering.

Following Department Head School, Captain Carroll again reported to USS ENTERPRISE (CVN 65) in Norfolk, Virginia as Reactor Controls Assistant, part of the crew taking CVN 65 out of the shipyard following her complex nuclear refueling overhaul.  From June 1996 to February 1998, Captain Carroll served as Combat Systems Officer on USS FORD (FFG 54) out of Everett, Washington, participating in a battle group deployment to the Arabian Gulf.

Captain Carroll reported to USS THACH (FFG 43) in May 1998 in Yokosuka, Japan, as Executive Officer.  During this tour, he deployed again to the Arabian Gulf conducting maritime intercept operations as part of a Maritime Expeditionary Force Group.  After returning to Yokosuka , he oversaw one of the first forward deployed crew/hull swaps, becoming XO of USS GARY (FFG 51).

In October 1999, Captain Carroll reported to the staff of Commander, Naval Air Forces, U.S. Pacific Fleet as Deputy Force Nuclear Propulsion Officer and Officer-in-Charge of the Pacific Surface Nuclear Propulsion Mobile Training Team.

Captain Carroll took command of USS RODNEY M. DAVIS (FFG 60), homeported in Everett, Washington, in May 2002.  He deployed to the Arabian Gulf as part of NIMITZ Strike Group supporting Operations IRAQI FREEDOM and ENDURING FREEDOM.  During his tour, ending in March 2004, RODNEY M. DAVIS was the winner of the Battle Efficiency Award, the Golden Anchor and the CNO Safety Award.

Captain Carroll reported to the USS GEORGE WASHINGTON (CVN 73) in November 2004 where he served as the Reactor Officer until May 2007, completing two drydocking availabilities and preparing the ship for its transfer to Yokosuka, Japan.

He recently graduated from the Industrial College of the Armed Forces.  In October 2008, he assumed command of USS Port Royal (CG 73).  His individual awards include the Meritorious Service Medal (four awards), the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal (two awards), and the Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal (two awards).
Title: Re: Ooops... Where did that ocean floor come from?!?
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 09, 2009, 06:57:36 PM
lol.  You know that situation with that oil spill was not all Hazelwood at fault.

He's the captain of the ship and this is responsible for all actions of his ship and crew.  While he wasn't in the bridge and left command to a junior officer, it doesn't eliminate his responsibility.  Of course, it didn't help him either that he had a few glasses of vodka prior to the accident either.


ack-ack