Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Getback on February 12, 2009, 05:30:29 AM
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It seems that some folks are trying to turn the MA into another FSO. So I thought I would give my thoughts on both.
FSO's are pretty cool, no doubt. I enjoy them when I'm not too sleepy. Everyone's on the same mission and goals are assigned. The enemy knows the targets. It also gives those with a tight schedule a chance to fly with their buds and squads. You know they are likely to be there. There's also a measure of reality with plane types by era. And if you are like me and stuck pretty much on one plane it forces you to try different plane sets.
On the downside you get only one life (which does add to the realism) and someone else does all the planning and assigns the tasks. Because the enemy knows the target the defenders usually fly higher than 30k. Now radar is almost non existent so you still don't exactly know where the cons are until you make a visual or someone gives a report on location. So you don't know the number of planes you will encounter. It could be 5 or 35. Well unless you get an advance report. The last FSO I was in the assignment was a GV field. By the time I got there nothing was left to bomb. Everything was down and as far as I know no secondary assignment. So I just dropped my eggs and went home.
Now in the MA you get to choose what planes you want to fly and what missions you want to run or join. Room for a lot of creativity there. You also get the opportunity to go on your own. I go off by myself quite a bit. I decide if I want to run a gv or fly a plane or where I think the cv should go if I have the rank. You also pick the targets. Just a lot of freedom in the MA. If I go to bomb a field and find that there are no targets left I can simply choose my secondary target. Additionally the enemy doesn't know what plane sets will be coming or maybe even what the goal or target is. So there is the element of surprise.
On the down side you may not get any teamwork in the MA at all and on some nights according to a few you get too much team work. :rofl :rofl Then you also get way too many folks flying so called uber planes. Another detriment is that in the FSO it is bad to do suicide runs. That goes against your country in the FSO. Way too much of that in the MA.
I know Joker posted a mission and announced it on the boards to prove a point. Which he did quite well. However, to do this on a regular bases takes away many of the freedoms of the MA. I just don't think it should be a regular event. I think those type of things belong in the SEA arenas.
Additionally I would like to say that I do like the FSO it sure has its place in AH and is much appreciated by all. However, no one ever came to AH and the first question asked was about the FSO. So if you want to recruit you have to fly the MA. Unfortunately I have seen major squads all but disappear from the MA. They may have 20 to 30 guys show up for FSO and only about 5 show up for squad nights in the MA. While these squads are still doing quite well attrition does take place. My FSO squad, The 880 is a great case in point. While Warloc contributes heavily to the FSO the squad has almost no presence in the MA and thus is unable to grow to the 10- -12 players that Warloc would like. No offense intended Warloc. I really enjoy flying with the 880.
My last thoughts are you shouldn't sacrifice the MA for the FSO or vice versa.
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It seems that some folks are trying to turn the MA into another FSO. So I thought I would give my thoughts on both.
It'll never happen.
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It'll never happen.
Thanks Shifty. I like them both for what they are.
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It seems that some folks are trying to turn the MA into another FSO.
not to worry. htc holds the keys.
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Because the enemy knows the target the defenders usually fly higher than 30k.
This is the one frustration I have in FSO. Everything is in the stratosphere and it's very, VERY rare to find an enemy below that altitude unless the CMs impose a limit.
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Thanks Shifty. I like them both for what they are.
LOL not like it's up to me. :D
The MA Arenas are what they are.
The Special Event Arenas are what they are.
Different animals completely.
<S>
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I don't like the MA much, but it's the only place I can fly a P51D. The FSOs suck most of the time because I always get stuck in a B5N,A6M or some other crap I have no interest in. The AvA is the type of play I'm looking for, but again not much of a plane choice and low player interest. So I'm pretty much limited to LW MA fighting spits.
CT is what I really wanted to see happen. All I really want to do is fight 109s and 190s with my P51 :frown:
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I don't think anybody is looking to force the MA to comply with FSO type missions. Talk about herding cats. Ain't gonna happen.
The 'FSO' type of missions, however, require a certain amount of effort on both sides of the front to create an environment that is simply another sub-culture for combat.
Saying that one cannot and should not conduct pre-announced attack raids is the equivalent of telling folks they cannot or should not furball, toolshed, spawncamp, vulch, tank town, noe, HQ raids, .. etc.
It's simply another facet of the game.
I wouldn't be too concerned that the MA style of gameplay will ever go away.
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Main arena turned into another FSO? Snowball's chance in hell.
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This is the one frustration I have in FSO. Everything is in the stratosphere and it's very, VERY rare to find an enemy below that altitude unless the CMs impose a limit.
When I regularly did FSO's a couple of years ago, it was worse. You had people ABOVE the alt. limit (not just 1,000, more). Flight Leaders going against their own responsibilities, all in the name of getting their pat on the backs.
That's the problem with games like this. The Action's need to start coming, instead of the words.
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Karaya, did you hear the 51 pilots in blue yesterday who declared a 14k hard-deck for themselves? :lol They were operating in the same area where you were flying.
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Personally I think FSO flying is far superior to the MA in every way. I've got no problem with the altitude, and its not uncommon to see lower level or NOE either. What is important is that you have actual objectives and tasked orders. No question that at times you draw "bad" assignments but the good squads often find a way to achieve some measure of success. By and large the individuals and squads that do well consistently in FSO are equally capable in the MA.
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I don't think the OP is actually worried about losing the current MAs to an FSO style setup. They are totally different. Ones Gamey, on tries to be more of a sim. I think he's content with the MA and any suggestions that the current setup is flawed in someway made him create this thread.
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It's just my opinion folks. Sure don't want to tell people how to enjoy themselves. Never have never will. I do think the MA is a bit more gamey than the FSO but I've seen some gaminess in the FSO before as well.
Like I said I enjoy both for what they are.
Addendum: I thought about joining Joker's mission it sounded like a lot of fun. However was too tired from having a cold all week so I logged instead.
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Altitude is speed, speed is life.
This is is the combat air bible.
Why would you be angry at people for reading the bible?
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This is the one frustration I have in FSO. Everything is in the stratosphere and it's very, VERY rare to find an enemy below that altitude unless the CMs impose a limit.
That's always frustrated me about FSO's too. All too often the battle turned not on who had the better plan or the better tactic, but on who got the highest with the most planes.
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That's always frustrated me about FSO's too. All too often the battle turned not on who had the better plan or the better tactic, but on who got the highest with the most planes.
One of the things that has always amused me was people that fly FSO's complaining about NOE's in the MA. In the FSO you are essentially NOE at 30k. The only difference is you do know somewhat what type of plane is coming and you do know what the potential target is.
Now frankly, I wouldn't change a thing in the FSO. This is just a point.
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Altitude is speed, speed is life.
This is is the combat air bible.
And yet, in the war, everyone didn't fly around at 30k+ all the time.
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Altitude is speed, speed is life.
This is is the combat air bible.
Why would you be angry at people for reading the bible?
What we need here is a definition of the word "life" from this particular statement.
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I'd say about 1/3 of the attack missions I've flown have been at 7500 ft or less. On more then one occasion we've hit a target with the cap at 30k looking for us. I've also been on the flip side were we as CAP never found low level cons till they were actually engaging the target.
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And yet, in the war, everyone didn't fly around at 30k+ all the time.
Read about the air battles over Guadalcanal. A6M2s and F4Fs at 30k.. daily.
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Altitude is speed, speed is life.
This is is the combat air bible.
Why would you be angry at people for reading the bible?
Again, even the creator of this GAME will tell you it is not a WAR GAME. You will have the less intelligent folks who conjure it up to being a War game.
Shades accounts are another thing. :aok
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Karaya, did you hear the 51 pilots in blue yesterday who declared a 14k hard-deck for themselves? :lol They were operating in the same area where you were flying.
Neg. I rolled a Pony (historical squadron is my new thing) and met a co-alt Pony around 13k. I engage and by the 2nd turn he ran towards their base. I head towards 39 due to low fuel. He all of sudden is 1.5k out. I take him through the ack, he makes it. However, I went through our bomber hangar, he pulled up, VANDALS shot him down in a FG. :rofl
Fun fighting alongside you guys last night. We'll have to do it more often. Good communication, THAT is what is missing a lot of the times in this game.
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Well said.
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In the last year alone, FSO has grown from 300 pilots, to 600 pilots. Me, and hundreds of other pilots are enjoying FSO for what it is and for what is has to offer.
For those who say the defense is +30k most of the time and also seeing pilots flying above the alt limits imposed occasionally:
Avoiding higher cons can be done. In Jan's FSO, our squadron neutralized a fighter sweep performed by zeros at +20k, by simply going around them. We rendered that advance fighter sweep useless and was able to attack the bomber force behind them way before they arrived to their target. We were lower than 20k because at 30k, you give up some tactical advantages.
If the squadron you fly with in FSO isn't giving you the FSO experience you were hoping for, then you should do something about it OR go to another squadron who will better fit you.
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The frog is wise.
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This is the one frustration I have in FSO. Everything is in the stratosphere and it's very, VERY rare to find an enemy below that altitude unless the CMs impose a limit.quote]
Hm, one word... DGS 2007. 20k+ Luftwaffe Vs 8th USAAF. Best time ever. The immerison, the carnage, the vox comms, the adrenaline of spotting massive dots at your 9 o clock closing fast with nano seconds to react before all hell broke loose.
Ask anyone that participated in it...Best time ever in a Aces High Event. Honestly it was. :salute
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Good communication, THAT is what is missing a lot of the times in this game.
Not trying to hijack here, but one of the things I love about the 412th is we always, always talking about what we're doing and who is where in a fight. A real pleasure to jump in a furball with those fellas.
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This is the one frustration I have in FSO. Everything is in the stratosphere and it's very, VERY rare to find an enemy below that altitude unless the CMs impose a limit.
True. Even the FSO I flew with 251. We were at 27K and saw Zeke's at 32K almost.
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Very well balanced analysis Getback. I'll provide one thing you missed though, and you can't be blamed for it because you obviously don't share this sentiment.
For people who enjoy FSO and "realism" flying, myself included, the fun is in the experience. I can fly a two hour long FSO or scenario, see the enemy only once, and have more fun than if I would have spent that time in a deck furball in the MA racking up, like, 40 kills. It's difficult to explain this type of fun to those who don't feel the same, I guess you could call it "action dilution". The MA's are so action packed that everything becomes diluted, and it's not until you get that pure, close to realism experience that the real fun is found in strength again.
People who prefer this realism flying are proportionately small compared to HTC's entire customer base, so you will NEVER have to worry about the MA becoming like FSO. I wish it would, but it won't. People simply would not cooperate. I guess my point is that for us people who like FSO's and scenarios, it really IS fun for us, we are not just trying to push an agenda of boredom and realism on everyone else.
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Very well balanced analysis Getback. I'll provide one thing you missed though, and you can't be blamed for it because you obviously don't share this sentiment.
For people who enjoy FSO and "realism" flying, myself included, the fun is in the experience. I can fly a two hour long FSO or scenario, see the enemy only once, and have more fun than if I would have spent that time in a deck furball in the MA racking up, like, 40 kills. It's difficult to explain this type of fun to those who don't feel the same, I guess you could call it "action dilution". The MA's are so action packed that everything becomes diluted, and it's not until you get that pure, close to realism experience that the real fun is found in strength again.
People who prefer this realism flying are proportionately small compared to HTC's entire customer base, so you will NEVER have to worry about the MA becoming like FSO. I wish it would, but it won't. People simply would not cooperate. I guess my point is that for us people who like FSO's and scenarios, it really IS fun for us, we are not just trying to push an agenda of boredom and realism on everyone else.
I understand. FSO is a nice break from the usual MA stuff.
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I understand. FSO is a nice break from the usual MA stuff.
Not quite... :D He's saying he'd always fly FSO over the main arena if he had a choice. :aok
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Not quite... :D He's saying he'd always fly FSO over the main arena if he had a choice. :aok
I understand that. However my view it's a nice break from MA.