Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MachFly on February 28, 2009, 03:05:55 PM
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I am currently trying to chose a new main fighter. And my two top competitors are F4U-4 and Spitfire 14.
If you guys had to chose ONE aircraft to fly all the time, which one would it be? (if not looking at the perks, ability to take of a CV, or ability to carry ord)
thanks
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Hands down.... F4U-4.
My regards,
Widewing
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-4 eats spit14 for lunch, really is a no brainer.
NOT
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I've been flying the spit14 as my main ride this tour, she has her quirks but is competitive if you fly conservatively.
If i had to choose on fighter performance alone I would fly the f4u4 because she is more survivable and handles beautifuly at all speed ranges, unlike the spit14 which is very squirrely at low speeds.
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I've been flying the spit14 as my main ride this tour, she has her quirks but is competitive if you fly conservatively.
If i had to choose on fighter performance alone I would fly the f4u4 because she is more survivable and handles beautifuly at all speed ranges, unlike the spit14 which is very squirrely at low speeds.
Also, the XIV can't roll at high speed. If I wanted lots of kills and few deaths, F4U-4 is it.
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Nothing can beat a U4 in the game, so it should be a no brainer.
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I'd say the La-7 has about a 50/50 shot at winning a fight with an F4U-4. Maybe a little less than that. Been a while since I did it, so I forgot exactly what the results were, but me and Widewing played around F4U-4 vs La-7 and I don't remember it being a landslide either way.
I'd say a Spixteen would probably have a better than even shot at killing an F4U-4 one on one, if the F4U-4 fought.
But between the F4U-4 and the Spit 14 I'd say the F4U-4 hands down. The Spit 14 shouldn't even be a perk plane.
If the F4U flaps didn't turn it into a Spitfire, I'd say the F4U-4 wouldn't even deserve it.
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F4U-4. Has too many advantages across the board.
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F4U-4 is the best prop fighter in the game.
I don't know why the Spit XIV is still perked.
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I am currently trying to chose a new main fighter. And my two top competitors are F4U-4 and Spitfire 14.
If you guys had to chose ONE aircraft to fly all the time, which one would it be? (if not looking at the perks, ability to take of a CV, or ability to carry ord)
thanks
Being both a spitfire and F4U fighter pilot, Ive got to say the spit could be surprisingly better than the F4U sometimes. Unfortunately, the Spitfire would lose for a kill:death ratio. I'd say 2.5:1 for the F4U and about 0.75:1 for the spit.
-FYB
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I'd say 2.5:1 for the F4U and about 0.75:1 for the spit.
-FYB
Well thats in your case...the spit14 got the means to do some slaughters if used correctly. But allover the F4U4 is better. It got More range with DTs, more ammo, a better top speed and is a better bnz plane in general.
Lets not start the perk thing on the spit14 cause we all know it should be perked as it is (90 gal drop tank ?) :devil
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thanks for the input guys
Well thats in your case...the spit14 got the means to do some slaughters if used correctly. But allover the F4U4 is better. It got More range with DTs, more ammo, a better top speed and is a better bnz plane in general.
I would say that I have no problem doing good in a spitfire. But you know there are some moments when it's really hard to survive, like 1 vs 5. And thous are the ones where I usually lose my perk planes.
Also alot of you guys said that F4U-4 is much better that spit 14 hands down. Did you guys take into account that -4 has only 1 internal fuel tank, which means there is 1 spot on that aircraft that you can hit the take it out of commission. (which is why I don't fly planes with a single radiator)
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Also alot of you guys said that F4U-4 is much better that spit 14 hands down. Did you guys take into account that -4 has only 1 internal fuel tank, which means there is 1 spot on that aircraft that you can hit the take it out of commission. (which is why I don't fly planes with a single radiator)
F4U-4 can be hit in its single main fuel tank, Spit XIV can lose its single radiator. Not much difference.. if you neglect the fact that overall the F4U can take a dam lot more punishment than the Spit.
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Spit XIV can lose its single radiator. Not much difference..
No it can't. Late war spitfires have 2 radiators.
You know thous things under the wins on spitfires, there radiators.
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No it can't. Late war spitfires have 2 radiators.
You know thous things under the wins on spitfires, there radiators.
Damage list says: 1 radiator. If that's hit, its gone. ;)
Uhhmmm wait... if I think about it... I can't remember having had any radiator loss in a Spit XIV... :noid
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Damage list says: 1 radiator. If that's hit, its gone. ;)
Image from WarbirdDech Series Merlin-Powered Spitfires
(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/3803/radiator.jpg)
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Image from WarbirdDech Series Merlin-Powered Spitfires
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8608/radiatorr.jpg)
I'm NOT talking about real life. I do know there are two. Thank you.
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Uhhmmm wait... if I think about it... I can't remember having had any radiator loss in a Spit XIV... :noid
same
been flying the spitfire for about a year now
HTC probably made the radiator indestructible because it was much easier than modifying the game just for 1 aircraft.
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The rad's not indestructible and the 4 hog is easily the more rugged of the two planes.
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The rad's not indestructible and the 4 hog is easily the more rugged of the two planes.
I'm not sure if i agree with that. Spitfires' tale section can take much more fire, and again the F4U has only 1 fuel tank.
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paper wings on the spit...hell I even broke a couple of pairs on a flat turn.
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were you going 500mph and pulled the stick as far as it goes?
spitfires' wings create much more lift than most other planes. Also you know how you usually compress planes when you go to fast, spitfire will want to pull up instead.
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Uh oh, don't get schlowy started on the 109's dual radiators...
But it would be cool if the K-4 had its shut-off switch in case one of them is hit. ;)
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I took a 37mm round at about 1.2k from a Yak-9T and lost the radiator on a Spitfire Mk XIV. It can be hit.
Uh oh, don't get schlowy started on the 109's dual radiators...
But it would be cool if the K-4 had its shut-off switch in case one of them is hit. ;)
Dual radiator Spits had an automatic shutoff valve as well. In AH those would be the Mk VIII, Mk IX, Mk XIV and Mk XVI. Couldn't run at full power, but it would get you home.
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Also alot of you guys said that F4U-4 is much better that spit 14 hands down. Did you guys take into account that -4 has only 1 internal fuel tank, which means there is 1 spot on that aircraft that you can hit the take it out of commission. (which is why I don't fly planes with a single radiator)
What makes you think that you'll ever get an opportunity to shoot? ;)
My regards,
Widewing
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I'm not sure if i agree with that. Spitfires' tale section can take much more fire, and again the F4U has only 1 fuel tank.
I'm not going to argue it.. It's really obvious IMO. The hogs take enough punishment to put them in the top ranks in that respect, whereas the spit is pretty middling. Their wings are real fragile, dud 30mm's notwithstanding.
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I don't want to turn this into an arguing poll, just want to know your opinions.
The radiator and the fuel tank thing that i said was just to keep in mined.
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were you going 500mph and pulled the stick as far as it goes?
Not even close thats the thing, level flight near max speed, roll right, then pull the stick hard enough, but not enough to blackout totally. I think its hard to reproduce, it happens on spit14 and even spit9 sometimes.
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Spits are one of the easiest aircraft to take down once you get a shot. F4U's will take all sorts of 50 cals before they lose anything important.
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Dual radiator Spits had an automatic shutoff valve as well. In AH those would be the Mk VIII, Mk IX, Mk XIV and Mk XVI. Couldn't run at full power, but it would get you home.
would like to see this implemented :aok
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Spits are one of the easiest aircraft to take down once you get a shot. F4U's will take all sorts of 50 cals before they lose anything important.
Even with 20mm fire you often need more concentrated fire than just a snapshot to break off something important.
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Why get a couple of uber sticks to test it out. Do it at the different alt bases in the DA.
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If teh F4U-4 can flown inside its evelope, it will win. But take 2 average pilot who dont really know either plane well... and the Spit14 will win as it is an easier plane to fly.
The F4U-4 takes lots of flaps, throttle, and experience to make it perform to its potential and the Spit14 just takes some commen sense.
Me? I'd grab the Spit14 since I am not well versed in the trickery of the F4Ux. "Any idiot can fly a Spitfire", I believe is the quote I heard a Spitfire pilot say on YouTube. :)
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Aye, but the pilot was clearly not referencing the spit14, it's anything but friendly to the inexperienced. I imagine a duel by 2 average pilots would end up with the spit14 entering a flat spin and augering.
The f4u4 is not only superior plane for racking up kills in the MA and surviving, but is also a better fighter 1v1 than the spit14. I'm not sure the minimum notches of flap the f4u4 requires to outturn the spit14 but it may only be a single notch, combined with it's gentler low speed handling it soon dominates the spit.
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On the other hand, it the XIV drivers knows what he's doing, he can fly it like a 109K-4 and get above the F4U-4. The XIV climbs about 1000fpm faster than the U-4 below 10k ft.
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If teh F4U-4 can flown inside its evelope, it will win. But take 2 average pilot who dont really know either plane well... and the Spit14 will win as it is an easier plane to fly.
The F4U-4 takes lots of flaps, throttle, and experience to make it perform to its potential and the Spit14 just takes some commen sense.
Me? I'd grab the Spit14 since I am not well versed in the trickery of the F4Ux. "Any idiot can fly a Spitfire", I believe is the quote I heard a Spitfire pilot say on YouTube. :)
The 14 breaks all of the rules. It is very difficult to fly compared to the F4U. It doesn't turn for chit.
IMO the 14 is about as difficult to keep stable and flying (if not more) as the 109K. The only redeeming factor is it's guns.
The -U4 would trash the 14.
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On the other hand, it the XIV drivers knows what he's doing, he can fly it like a 109K-4 and get above the F4U-4. The XIV climbs about 1000fpm faster than the U-4 below 10k ft.
The Spit 14 wouldn't have a chance in hell against the F4U if it slowed down long enough to take advantage of the F4U's "inferior" acceleration and climb.
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If I was the spit pilot my tactics would be:
1: slow the fight down
2: get alittle bit of separation using better acceleration
3: outclimb using spiral climb
4: hope the f4u pilot is dumb enough to try to climb with me
5: shoot said f4u down....and hope I don't break my wings off.
IMO equal sticks I think it would be a really good fight
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If I was the spit pilot my tactics would be:
1: slow the fight down
2: Bang you're dead
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The Spit 14 wouldn't have a chance in hell against the F4U if it slowed down long enough to take advantage of the F4U's "inferior" acceleration and climb.
Actually spitfire 14 has a greater acceleration and climb rate that the F4U-4, (I also tested that)
If teh F4U-4 can flown inside its evelope, it will win. But take 2 average pilot who dont really know either plane well... and the Spit14 will win as it is an easier plane to fly.
The F4U-4 takes lots of flaps, throttle, and experience to make it perform to its potential and the Spit14 just takes some commen sense.
Me? I'd grab the Spit14 since I am not well versed in the trickery of the F4Ux. "Any idiot can fly a Spitfire", I believe is the quote I heard a Spitfire pilot say on YouTube. :)
you guys are comparing 2 AVERAGE pilots, who don't know the key ability's of ether planes. I am trying to compare what plane will do better for a pilot that knows how to fly both of them.
And yes, i shot down Spit 14s wile flying -4, and I show down -4 wile flying spit 14. You just need to know what your doing.
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Actually spitfire 14 has a greater acceleration and climb rate that the F4U-4, (I also tested that)
You missed the point. By slowing down the fight in order to take advantage of the superior climb and acceleration, you are surrendering. You'd be dead before you got the opportunity to put these factors to use.
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And yes, i shot down Spit 14s wile flying -4, and I show down -4 wile flying spit 14. You just need to know what your doing.
Of course. I've shot down an Me.262 in a Bf.109E before.
That's why, when you compare aircraft in this way, you have to do it assuming the two aircraft are flying in a DA environment and are flown by pilots of similar skill.
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Granted I think the F4 has the advantage, but if I can fight F4s in the 109K with some success I should be able to do it in the XIV.
We need to stop this arm-chair philosophizing and go try it out.
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We need to stop this arm-chair philosophizing and go try it out.
I'd love to
But that's going to be kinda hard because it's hard finding 2 pilots with the same amount of skill
So if you can find 2 pilots with approximately the same kill to death ratio (for tour 109, because 110 has just started), I would appreciate that.
(and yes, I would love to be one of the pilots testing it as long as we find a 2nd one with approximately the same K/D as me)
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I'd love to
But that's going to be kinda hard because it's hard finding 2 pilots with the same amount of skill
So if you can find 2 pilots with approximately the same kill to death ratio (for tour 109, because 110 has just started), I would appreciate that.
(and yes, I would love to be one of the pilots testing it as long as we find a 2nd one with approximately the same K/D as me)
Kill to death ratio is meaningless if you want to determine dogfighting skill.
We have tested the F4U-4 against the Tempest, Spit14, Spit16, La-7, 190K-4, Ta 152, Dora and the like. By we, I mean some of the best pilots in the game. Regardless of who flew the F4U-4, it was the equal of the La-7 and Spit16 down low (if the fight goes long enough to get slow, the F4U-4 gains a noticeable edge). It was superior at 10k and above. The F4U-4 was superior to the others at any altitude up through 30k.
Indeed, I advocate unperking the Spit14, while keeping the F4U-4's perk where it is. If we had the F4U-4B with four cannon, HTC would have to perk it as high or higher than the Tempest.
When I stated that the F4U-4 was superior to the Spitfire Mk.XIV, I wasn't assuming anything. We have tested the best fighters head to head many times. That doesn't mean that the Spit14 isn't a great fighter, because it is. It's just not the F4U-4's equal... Overall, nothing else is either.
My regards,
Widewing
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We have tested the F4U-4 against the Tempest, Spit14, Spit16, La-7, 190K-4, Ta 152, Dora and the like. By we, I mean some of the best pilots in the game. Regardless of who flew the F4U-4, it was the equal of the La-7 and Spit16 down low (if the fight goes long enough to get slow, the F4U-4 gains a noticeable edge). It was superior at 10k and above. The F4U-4 was superior to the others at any altitude up through 30k.
When I stated that the F4U-4 was superior to the Spitfire Mk.XIV, I wasn't assuming anything. We have tested the best fighters head to head many times. That doesn't mean that the Spit14 isn't a great fighter, because it is. It's just not the F4U-4's equal... Overall, nothing else is either.
Hmm....thanks for the info
Would you happen to have a video of that? Kinda interested at what exactly happened.
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I spent time in both today because of this thread. These were my impressions:
F4U-4: Handles nearly identically to the other F4U's, but it's faster, climbs better, and accelerates better. With 100% fuel and a drop tank it could not sustain 3000fpm at military power on climb-out, but the performance dramatically improves as you lose weight. It's a solid gun platform. It is superlative in a dive, and can force any prop airplane in the arena to fight. For this reason, it is easy to get overconfident and put yourself in a bad position to punish a P-51 that tries to run away. ;) Despite its great low speed characteristics, keep it fast, and only get the flaps out in a pinch.
SpitXIV: Leaps off the runway. Climbs at least as well as the 109K-4, accelerates like an La-7, superior to the F4U-4 in these respects. The ailerons become heavy in level flight because of the high speed. It's unable to follow the Spit XVI through nose-low maneuvers that incorporate a lot of roll. The instability makes it a poor gunnery platform; the nose has a tendency to "bounce" while you're trying to aim. Requires a lot more rudder/throttle finesse to make it perform optimally than the F4U-4. It can be difficult to force the enemy to fight because they will constantly dive away in rolling maneuvers that the XIV cannot follow.
In both cases, the ability to run down the P-51D that has no intention of fighting is a major plus. :t
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In both cases, the ability to run down the P-51D that has no intention of fighting is a major plus. :t
Spit 14 is slower than 51D
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At what altitude?
Anyway, it's not even the ultimate Spit XIV in AH, - AFAIK.
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Spit 14 is slower than 51D
I don't think so, A P51 never ran away from me when i was on spit14, how ever i did run away from a pony ones. (10K and above)
I spent time in both today because of this thread. These were my impressions:
F4U-4: Handles nearly identically to the other F4U's, but it's faster, climbs better, and accelerates better. With 100% fuel and a drop tank it could not sustain 3000fpm at military power on climb-out, but the performance dramatically improves as you lose weight. It's a solid gun platform. It is superlative in a dive, and can force any prop airplane in the arena to fight. For this reason, it is easy to get overconfident and put yourself in a bad position to punish a P-51 that tries to run away. ;) Despite its great low speed characteristics, keep it fast, and only get the flaps out in a pinch.
SpitXIV: Leaps off the runway. Climbs at least as well as the 109K-4, accelerates like an La-7, superior to the F4U-4 in these respects. The ailerons become heavy in level flight because of the high speed. It's unable to follow the Spit XVI through nose-low maneuvers that incorporate a lot of roll. The instability makes it a poor gunnery platform; the nose has a tendency to "bounce" while you're trying to aim. Requires a lot more rudder/throttle finesse to make it perform optimally than the F4U-4. It can be difficult to force the enemy to fight because they will constantly dive away in rolling maneuvers that the XIV cannot follow.
In both cases, the ability to run down the P-51D that has no intention of fighting is a major plus. :t
Greatly Appreciate that.
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Acceleration baby! :D
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Acceleration baby! :D
I believe you are referring to the spitfire
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Soda's Aircraft Evaluation
Spitfire Mk XIV
Overview
There really are mixed opinions on the SpitXIV in general. I have to say, used in it's element it is a wonderful plane, but used outside of that is just another Spitfire, but that's not a bad thing. To control the use of the SpitXIV it has a high perk value attached to it, so you need to use it wisely and not just throw it away by getting into poor situations and not giving yourself a chance to escape. The Spit XIV is a killer, no doubt, and at some altitudes can show every other propeller driven plane exactly what the Spitfire is all about, a killer.
To be successful
The Spitfire Mk XIV is an excellent plane, although it is one that shows it's advantages under certain conditions while also showing that it is quite "ordinary" under others. Ordinary isn't a bad thing, but is certainly isn't worth risking the perks to take one out of the hanger when a Spit IX is free and could be flown in the same fashion. That's what it really comes down to in the case of the Spit XIV though, you need to know how to fly it. Too many Spit drivers simply fly them all the same, usually as turn-fighters, where the Spit XIV can show you what a great energy fighter can do.
Engine power is incredible, though some people simply don't realize it. Here is why, at sea-level the Spit XIV can cruise at 332mph, nothing good in that number. With WEP that can be brought up to 358mph, a big difference but still not a number that will turn heads in any way. At those speeds an La5 is going to be able to keep up, let alone mention something like a 190D9, La7, 109G10, or Typhoon. If you climb up to about 12.5K though the situation is dramatically different, 400mph cruise. Need a bit of a sprint at 12K, kick in the WEP and you'll quickly see 420mph. Bump that up to 28K and you are seeing 427mph in cruise. Punch in the WEP up high and at 26K you are pulling 448mph. Those are pretty big numbers, larger than pretty much anything else. Not only that, look at the climb rate of the Spit XIV from sea-level, 5,000ft/minute all the way up to about 9K. Nothing can match that, not the 109G10, not the La7, nothing. Trips to 12K are only a little over 2 minutes away and pretty much ensure that your 400mph speed is going to bring at least parity with anyone else up at 12K (though it is a tight race against some opponents). WEP is important too, without it you are likely comparable to the best fighters at similar altitudes, with it you are likely better. Don't burn your WEP up in transit or during climbs, chances are with the attention you are bound to attract you will need it all for the fight ahead.
Firepower is standard Spitfire, twin 20mm hispano cannons backed up either four .303's or twin .50's. The hispanos really are the key to this package, they add the real punch while the other guns are mostly just supporting. The .50's option seems to give the better results as the hitting power of a .50 is more than twice that of a .303 for most purposes in the game. The .50 also seems to give an increased number of critical hits over the .303 which can be important to swing an enemy into a position where they need to end the fight quickly or escape. The hispanos have 120 rounds/gun while the .50s have 250. Once the hispanos are fired away though I would recommend it's time to leave and reload with more.
Maneuverability is almost exactly like a Spit IX, or at least almost impossible to tell any/much difference. If you are turn-fighting with the Spit XIV though you are missing the point and may as well just take a Spit IX. Maneuverability in the Spit XIV is only used to get the guns into position when taking snapshots or during BnZ attacks. The only time to get into sustained turn-fights is when you are completely alone with an enemy you know can't out-turn you. Any other time is likely to lead to an awfully quick ending for you since everyone knows you are in a Spit XIV and will hunt you like a pack of hungry wolves.
Offensively, BnZ or slash attack opponents who are at your altitude or lower. Don't get engaged too low as the Spit loses too much performance even with WEP at very low altitudes. Cruise at a comfortable altitude where you don't expect to see many/any enemy cons above you. Always remember that your icon is special and every enemy within icon range will be screaming that there is a Spit XIV in the area, thus you attract a lot of attention, quickly. Best to be above trouble in such a situation. Never accept Head-On's, though the hispanos will likely make a draw, you certainly wouldn't want to risk the perk points in such a manner against an inferior opponent. You should never find yourself in a situation in a Spit XIV where, one on one, you don't have a clear advantage in some area of the fight. Energy fighting is beautiful in the Spit XIV, the climb, acceleration, top speed, and handling all aid this. Try and fight that sort of fight while remaining out of harms way.
Defensively, don't immediately dive to the deck for speed since the engine performs worse at sea-level and you will never actually break off enemies who are chasing you because they give up. The only way to lose an enemy is to show him pure horsepower in speed and climb. Too many opponents can easily catch a Spit XIV low. Make maneuvers that are just violent enough to avoid attack and try to build up energy parity. The Spit can put on speed and climb instantly and make many opponents with equal speed very envious. You don't want to get stuck in a constant turning duel down low against multiple opponents as your options in such a fight are typically low. Try to initiate a climbing spiral turn and use the Spit XIV's extraordinary climb rate to quickly pull you above the enemy while your great turn-rate will defeat their attempts to get a gun lead on you. Always be trying to build up energy advantage though after a defensive maneuver. Many planes find it very difficult to replace lost energy and you can quickly build up a big energy surplus on them before they realize it.
A couple of last notes, the Spit XIV is a big target, which is unfortunate. Every enemy within radio range will know you are there and be hunting you to the point of making suicidal attacks just to deny you the ability to land your plane. People will completely forget everything else around them and immediately dive in on you, so expect that and keep your situational awareness high. Bringing a Spit XIV to a furball is just too unpredictable and likely to draw too much attention. You should always have some sort of advantage in a Spit XIV though against an opponent, often many, in speed, climb, and/or turn-rate.
To beat it
The lucky thing is, most Spit XIV pilots fly it just like any other Spit and then cry when they lose it. They think it should turn like a Zero and sprint like a La7 on the deck and fly it like that, throwing caution to the wind and expecting the plane to haul their butts out of trouble. Unfortunately, it can't be flown like that successfully, or at least not typically. That said, you should always fear a Spit XIV, because if the pilot at the controls has any clue on how to properly use it he will quickly show you how dominant it can be.
Offensively, you need to corner a Spit XIV, typically not an easy task. An altitude advantage is usually a requirement though if you can catch one at low altitudes (under 5K) there are a number of aircraft that can stay on the tail of a Spit and force it to defend. Driving a Spit XIV low is a good start, make it defensive and maneuver as such but be very careful to preserve your own energy and not bleed much in your attacks. It is rare that you can catch a Spit in one maneuver so plane on this being a bit of an extended battle where you will need all your energy. The lower the fight, the more parity a plane like the La7, 190D9 or 109G10 is going to have in energy building. Watch each Spit maneuver closely and make sure he isn't just building energy on each defense. If you drive him lower, you need to get him to bleed speed, and not just climb back up. Be aggressive and continue the pressure. Unless you are greedy, having a second plane help you is best. Likely, you will find though that every friendly plane within icon range will be trying to beat you to the kill. I hate to recommend taking a Head On, but sometimes against a Spit XIV it can be about the best option available and shows that the Spit driver is getting desperate.
Defensively, you need to try and get into a position where you have some advantage. Some fighters can out-turn the Spit XIV, namely the other Spits, N1K, Hurricanes or Zero so you can try that. Chances are the Spit isn't like to play that game with you unless it is out of options. Never try and fight in the vertical against one as it will totally dominate you unless you have an excellent position to start with. The combination of turn-rate and climb rate will make 190's, 109's and La7's pretty envious. In a real speed demon you can probably out-run the Spit XIV down low, especially if you think he has been using WEP in other fights recently (and doesn't have full WEP time left). Diving to top speed, then maintaining that at sea-level is your best chance in cases like that. The Spit XIV knows it's not best at sea-level and may not follow at all since it would put them at a disadvantage. Extend a long way though, the Spit XIV is likely building energy like crazy while you are running away and you will need to build at least that amount of energy if you are thinking about coming back with any sort of honest offensive effort later.
to be continued....
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The Spit XIV tends to draw a lot of attention, so it is likely you will have lots of help in the same way people chase Me262's around forever with no hope of actually catching one. The Spit is catchable by a number of planes down low, even non-perk ones, so if you see one circling low it is at it's most vulnerable.
F4U-4
Overview
The ultimate Corsair in AH, the F4U-4 is a perked plane and has limited use in the MA most of the time. It is probably one of the most popular perk planes though and as compared to other Corsairs the reasons are clear. Where some Corsairs have a weakness in acceleration and top speed, the F4U-4 has none of these. The huge power, combined with a tough airframe that can make the most of it, combines for a deadly package in the hands of a knowledgable pilot. The F4U-4 is by no means invicible though, it requires good situational awareness and energy management techniques in order to really dominate.
Engine Performance
A world apart from other Corsairs, the F4U-4 packs top 5 performance pretty much across the board. Sea-level cruise speed is a solid 358mph, tied for best overall with the La7, but with WEP it can pull 378mph which is 2mph slower than the La7. The Tempest is slightly faster at sea-level though it is also a perk plane and very rare so the chances of a F4U-4 bumping into a Tempest are almost nil. Increases in altitude only make the F4U-4 faster with a 380mph cruise speed available at only 5.5K. At 20K the F4U-4 can make a 415mph cruise while absolute top speed is around 440mph at 26.5K. There is a bit of a dead band in the speed improvement between 6K and 10K so try and skip over this area if you can. Climb rate is good but the use of WEP is really important for the majority of the climbing curve. At low levels (under 4K) you can manage 3,500ft/minute without the use of WEP but between 4K and 18K the use of WEP will maintain this rate while lack of WEP can drop you over 500ft/min. Acceleration is good, top 5 at both low and high altitudes though there are a couple of aircraft that will give you trouble in a drag race so it's not advisable. WEP time is limited to only 5 minutes so don't abuse your WEP and give it plenty of time to cool between uses. Fuel duration is only 25 minutes on full internal, which is advisable, though you can add up to two external drop tanks that add +16 minutes each. Often taking a drop tank would be a good idea, releasing it before entering the fight.
Firepower
Exactly as in the F4U-D, there are six .50 cal machineguns mounted 3 to a wing in a nice tight package. Four of the guns have 400 rounds/gun, the remaining two only 375 rounds/gun though that tends to be quite a bit. The mounting position of the guns is fairly distant on the wings, outside the prop arc (of a HUGE prop) so convergence can be an issue. Try and pick a range that is relatively short or a small zone in the D300-D350 range, tops. That should give a nice deadly range in order to kill people quickly. What the .50's lack in individual killing power they make up for in ballistic properties and rate of fire. You can also add external ordinance of up to 8 5 inch rockets or two 1,000lb bombs. The bombs replace the drop tanks (one or both are an option) but using the F4U-4 as a group attacker is a bit pointless as the F4U-D can perform the same role without risking any perk points. Any sort of firing opportunity should be taken, snapshots, crossing, etc, though Head-Ons are not really advisable because of the perk nature of the aircraft.
Maneuverability
The F4U-4 weighs in at a whopping 12,420lbs making it no lightweight though it is only a couple hundred pounds heavier than the -D model and has far more engine power. The F4U-4 does retain the somewhat spooky handling of the other Corsairs and should be treated with care at low speeds and when landing. Use of proper flaps can be important to avoid snapstalls and crashes. All Corsairs thrive at high speeds though and the F4U-4 is no different. High speed handling is as good as anything in the game in roll and elevator response with easy recovery from even the steepest dives. Some caution should be exercised in regards to acceleration, the F4U-4 can build up too much speed very quickly because of the massive engine power. The great mass of the F4U-4 also allows it to retain and hide energy very effectively. The F4U-4 has combat flaps that can be deployed at higher speeds to aid turn-rate but these should be used sparingly in controlled bursts. The F4U-4 also has the interesting ability that it can deploy the landing gear at much higher than the typical 200mph limit without damage. This might normally be a interesting possibility in combat except for the perk price but can be a nice addition to add drag for landings or in duels (where perks mean nothing).
Flying the F4U-4
Fly the F4U-4 like a D-Hog for the most part but be aware that your icon is displaying to everyone around you that you are in a special aircraft. You will typically draw a lot of attention and should ensure you keep a high level situational awareness as most enemies are probably looking for a way to get to you and attack you.
Offensively, use the great high speed handling and mass of the F4U-4 to stun people with amazing zooms and plummetting dives. Don't slow down enough to turn-fight anything or limit your turns to a maximum of about 90 degrees under any sort of medium level of G's. Learn how to lag turn people as this can help you retain speed very effectively until you get your shot. Use the .50's advantages, easy aiming and high rate of fire, to lay quick hits on people that can translate to a large number of bullet impacts. If you get an enemy at the correct range as you set in your convergence then you are likely to land dozens of hits in a very brief period of time. While your acceleration is good, you need to not rely on it as the La7, 190D9, and Bf109-G10 all have roughly comparable accelerations and are very common to see in the MA. Don't use WEP until combat, there is little reason unless you want to boost your climb rate a bit when you first take off. Just give it some time to cool back down though while cruisuing as you really don't need WEP for that, the F4U-4 is plenty fast.
Defensively, don't enter the fight while exposing yourself to numerous higher opponents. Any enemy that is higher is going to think of nothing except diving and trying to intercept your perk plane to kill you. You don't need to climb into the nose-bleed seats though, just get a little altitude to work with, maybe 10K or whatever is appropriate to the situation. A higher diving Spitfire or N1K is not all that likely to catch you as long as you detect them early enough and react, regardless of how much excess altitude they may have started with. Remember, few aircraft that are as fast as you have the high speed handling you possess in a dive. Take planes like the 109's, Spits, N1Ks, etc to high speeds and then simply turn away or use your roll to ge them out of phase with you so you can leave. The La7 is likely to be the most dangerous aircraft to you at lower altitudes though he really only has parity with you in speed and no advantage as long as you have WEP to use. Don't be afraid to put the F4U-4 into a 0G nose over to dive as the acceleration is outstanding in this situation, just like with a P-47. Always try and leave yourself a little bit of altitude to use to escape, maybe setting a floor of 5K for yourself in any fight. Once you reach the point where you can't retain a reasonable speed at that level then it's time to leave the build up some energy. The F4U-4 is pretty good in that respect so you won't have to leave the fight for long.
Fighting the F4U-4
Keep your head on a swivel as the F4U-4 can come out of nowhere with amazing speed and has the handling to almost instantly adjust his aim. The F4U-4 is actually fairly common so you are bound to see a few of them around the skys from time to time. Consider it's high speed abilities to be slightly superior to any other Corsair though the icon will let you know instantly that you have an F4U-4 to deal with. Try sucking the pilot into a slower turning fight if you can or give him only high deflection shots at medium speeds which the enemy is unlikely to have success with. Defensively, the best thing you can probably do is retreat if the F4U-4 doesn't seem willing to slow down to fight.
Offensively, catching an F4U-4 can be pretty easy if you have a little altitude to work with to convert into speed and an aircraft that handles enough to match his speed. Sometimes one pilot will end up the person who corners the F4U-4 while another pilot may be the one who finishes the job. Initiate a shallow dive to build up speed and then pursue the F4U-4 is you care managing to catch him. Remember that his sustained high speed potential is likely higher than your so once you lose closure your attack is over. It's best to break off slightly before that so as not to signal to the enemy that you know you've blown your chance and are lower on energy already. Never consider the Corsairs a single shot kill either, they can often absorb a lot of punishment and continue to fly with little performance damage. The F4U-4 shouldn't be completely overpowering though if you set up yoru situation properly and don't get impatient. Most F4U-4's are not overly well flown and tend to be rather easy to sucker in to turn style fights were aircraft like the Spitfire will simply chew them to pieces.
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I prefer my writeup on the AH Wiki, but that's just me. ;)
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Maneuverability is almost exactly like a Spit IX, or at least almost impossible to tell any/much difference.
I disagree with that. Seems like the write up has been done before the 109K4, and I can't recall any change on the spits handling since then.
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Soda's writeups are good but not perfect. The Ta152's not exactly accurate either.
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Spit 14 is slower than 51D
Flat out on the deck in a long drag race, yes.
Elsewhere, no.
That is one of the best things about the Spit XIV, it can force Runstangs to fight. The last fight I had in it before canceling my account was against a P-51B and it could not escape from me, nor was the pilot good enough to out maneuver me. He bounced me and I was able to power my way out of trouble and turn the tables, never letting him escape even when he tried.
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My old friend from the wartime RAF was a P51C stick, and did some time chasing doodlebugs. He stated that the Spit XIV was clearly faster, since it frequently ran down the missiles, while the P51C would need some altitude advantage.
That was in real life, and at low altitude.
Anyway, up high the tables turn more, the XIV we have is very fast at high altitude. Guess I'll have to test these birdies in the DA tonight :D
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Maneuverability is almost exactly like a Spit IX, or at least almost impossible to tell any/much difference.
I disagree with that. Seems like the write up has been done before the 109K4, and I can't recall any change on the spits handling since then.
Yea, your right.
Spit 14 is more like spit 8, not 9.
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I disagree with that. Seems like the write up has been done before the 109K4, and I can't recall any change on the spits handling since then.
Yea, your right.
Spit 14 is more like spit 8, not 9.
It handles like no other spit. It is in a class all it's own. Do you think that huge engine turning the opposite direction makes little difference?
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I disagree with that. Seems like the write up has been done before the 109K4, and I can't recall any change on the spits handling since then.
Yea, your right.
Spit 14 is more like spit 8, not 9.
It handles like no other spit. It is in a class all it's own. Do you think that huge engine turning the opposite direction makes little difference?
I was talking about the airframe.
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It handles like no other spit. It is in a class all it's own. Do you think that huge engine turning the opposite direction makes little difference?
I was talking about the airframe.
Ahh that makes it a bit clearer then. :aok
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OK...silly question...did any F4U-4Bs see combat in WWII?
I thought F4U-4Bs were Korean War era?
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OK...silly question...did any F4U-4Bs see combat in WWII?
I thought F4U-4Bs were Korean War era?
No F4U-4Bs saw action in WWII. Some photos mislabel F4U-1Cs as F4U-4Bs though and that has caused some confusion.
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Flat out on the deck in a long drag race, yes.
Elsewhere, no.
That is one of the best things about the Spit XIV, it can force Runstangs to fight. The last fight I had in it before canceling my account was against a P-51B and it could not escape from me, nor was the pilot good enough to out maneuver me. He bounced me and I was able to power my way out of trouble and turn the tables, never letting him escape even when he tried.
Exactly. Even from 300 to 350mph, the XIV gets there quicker than the 51D. So the only way the 51D can use its better low-altitude top speed to escape is if it's already going ~350mph.
I wouldn't be so enamored with the idea of running down 51s if it weren't for the fact that so few of them have any other ideas than diving toward ack if they're not 5k above you making front quarter BnZ guns passes.
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No F4U-4Bs saw action in WWII. Some photos mislabel F4U-1Cs as F4U-4Bs though and that has caused some confusion.
Adding to the confusion... The F4U-4B designation was originally set aside for F4U-4 deliveries expected to go to the Fleet Air Arm. These were canceled, so the -4B reverted to the Navy. 20mm armed F4U-4s were originally to be designated F4U-4Cs. So yeah, many historians have been baffled by the muddle of designations.
No F4U-4Bs were shipped outside CONUS prior to Japan's surrender.
F4U-4 and F4U-4Bs saw extensive combat duty in the Korean War. Even shot down a MiG-15 and quite a few Yaks.
My regards,
Widewing
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2: Bang you're dead
you just got picked by steve's p-51d!!!! :lol :salute
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The F4U-4 does retain the somewhat spooky handling of the other Corsairs and should be treated with care at low speeds and when landing.
Ohhhh Soda, dude.. what were you drinking? :D
'Spooky handling' Hogfires.. lol :D
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it would have been more interesting if it were a tempest vs. -u4 at 15k.
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Thanks, Widewing....that clears the mud from my head.
<S> Sir.
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Comes down to the Pilot INMHO.
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Ohhhh Soda, dude.. what were you drinking? :D
'Spooky handling' Hogfires.. lol :D
I think those write-ups all predate the Hogfire flap patch.
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Comes down to the Pilot INMHO.
Not true. Different aircraft have different potential.
Or does a fight between a Foker Eidecker and an F-22 Raptor come down to the pilot? Yes, that is an extreme example. How about a Foker Eindecker vs a Spitfire Mk Ia?
The aircraft does make a difference. Great pilots can overcome a lot, but even then limits can be found.
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Ok just to keep this thread going I PICK SPIT14!
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Ok just to keep this thread going I PICK SPIT14!
I'd get the spit14 too...
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Was jostling with an F4U-4 yesterday, - me in a Spit 8. He could not shake me off, however his wingman made a change in that setup :D
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Not true. Different aircraft have different potential.
Or does a fight between a Foker Eidecker and an F-22 Raptor come down to the pilot? Yes, that is an extreme example. How about a Foker Eindecker vs a Spitfire Mk Ia?
The aircraft does make a difference. Great pilots can overcome a lot, but even then limits can be found.
ON PAPER the 109 was better than the spit/hurri during the BoB, did they win? no, of course not, why? Because real men flew those planes and they didn't want a bunch of German Nazis rampaging through our country. so without sounding too confrontational, I disagree and say that it does come down to the Pilot mostly, (especially in the cartoon world in here) Example, someone like Larry, N72 etc in a spit 14, Zipcode guy in the 4 hog, who's gonna win?
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The Bf109E-4 is not better than the Spitfire Mk Ia on paper. The two are about the most evenly matched aircraft in any historical meeting I can think of.
And your comment ignores they rather strong advantages the British had in radar and fighting over their own territory.
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Example, someone like Larry, N72 etc in a spit 14, Zipcode guy in the F-16, who's gonna win?
Fixed. :aok :lol
I disagree and say that it does come down to the Pilot mostly
Within the confines of AH, yes, a big majority of the time it is pilot ability that determines the fight. But remember, we are usually flying aircraft that are matched closely enough for pilot ability to matter. I can beat the pants off a better pilot if he's in a P-40B and I'm in a Spitfire XVI, but how often does that matchup occur?
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The Bf109E-4 is not better than the Spitfire Mk Ia on paper. The two are about the most evenly matched aircraft in any historical meeting I can think of.
And your comment ignores they rather strong advantages the British had in radar and fighting over their own territory.
Also ignored is the short notice due to the short distance and geographical position as well as the system of the British still wearing it's baby clothes. So, generally, the Hun came out high from the sun. That was also an advantage.
But on paper they were very well matched, as in real life.
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Both plane & pilot are part of the equation. The bigger the difference in pilots skill, the less important the machines get -
Put two good sticks of same skill in different planes and the performance of that machines begins to play a major role. If you put an ace in one plane, and a 2weeker on his first day in another - not so much.
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ON PAPER the 109 was better than the spit/hurri during the BoB, did they win? no, of course not,
I don't know, on paper they look kinda the same, lol
date taken from Spitfire vs Bf 109 Battle of Britain by Tony Holmes
(http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/941/spitfiemk1vs109e3.png)
I can beat the pants off a better pilot if he's in a P-40B and I'm in a Spitfire XVI, but how often does that matchup occur?
The last fight on P-40B that i had was against a P-51D and a P-38L (at the same time) they also probably thought that they can beat me, lol, did not happen that way. :D
Or does a fight between a Foker Eidecker and an F-22 Raptor come down to the pilot?
Example, someone like Larry, N72 etc in a spit 14, Zipcode guy in the F-16, who's gonna win?
To be honest with you the fight between an F-22 and an E.1 would be kinda hard. Because E.1 is made out of wood and is invisible for the missiles, then if you want to go for guns, F-22's stall speed is probably greater than E.1's top speed. And E.1 can certainly out turn the raptor. lol
I understand the point that your trying to make, your just not making it. Here is a better example: You have 2 airplanes climbing in the vertical, the distance between them in about 200yards & there almost stalling. If the 1st plane stalls 1st, he dies, if the 2nd stalls 1st he dies. Here is a part of a dogfight episode where Bud Anderson is in such situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt8G3vxLmKE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt8G3vxLmKE)
Most of the time when you have 2 aircraft of the same class it does depend on the pilots, but sometimes that little bit of power can make a differences between life and death.
The reason I made this thread is NOT to determine which pilot is better, the one that is siting in a spit 14 or in -4, but which airplane is better, actually which airplane would you take for your self?
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I'd probably go with the 14.
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Spitfire mk XIV Data Sheet
(http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-XIV-ads.jpg)
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Spit 14, because winning with the best plane is no fun.
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I found the exact specs for F4U-4 from Corsair by Barrett Tillman
Wing Area: 314sq ft
Wingspan 41ft
Span Folded 17ft
Length:33ft 8in
Height: 14ft 9in
Empty Weight: 9,205lb
Gross Weight: 14,670lb
Engine: P-W R-2800-18W
Engine rating: 2,100hp
Top Speed: 446mph @ 26,200ft (385kts)
Cruise speed: 215mph (187kts)
Climb Rate: 3,870fpm
Service Ceiling: 41,500ft
Range: 1,005 statute miles
Standard Armament: Six .50-cal. machine guns
Maximum Ordnance: Eight 5in rockets under wings; Up to 4,000lb on centerline and pylon racks.
keep in mined that the info. above is about the read F4U-4 not what we have in AH2, there for it might be a little different.
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(http://forums.randi.org/images/smilies/Bump1.gif)
If your attacking a set of bombers, what would you rather be flying? 14 or -4?
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I'll take the -4 for it's ruggedness, and gobs of laser ammo that can be applied liberally at long range.
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I'd take a -4 for that role, the Spit14 would get ripped apart.
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Spit, for the Hizooo :devil
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morning, im a real newbie ( one week of play) and i had the same question. the f-4 sounds like my savior. thanks guys!
what an amazing game.
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morning, im a real newbie ( one week of play) and i had the same question. the f-4 sounds like my savior. thanks guys!
what an amazing game.
(http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9695/signwelcome.gif)
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morning, im a real newbie ( one week of play) and i had the same question. the f-4 sounds like my savior. thanks guys!
what an amazing game.
Keep in mind that we are talking about specifically the Spitfire MkXIV (14) and F4U-4. Both of which are perked in the MA's. For the comparable non-perked version of these aircraft, the Spitfire MkXVI (16) and F4U-1A or D, the Spitfire is the better choice for a beginner.
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Spit 14 is one of my fav planes to go up against because most pilots dont knwo how to fly them (niether dfo i for that matter, but that doesnt matter i never flown it). But flown by a good pilot and it can be deadly.
The F4U-4 however, even a nooby pilot can do good in it, but a good pilot can do GREAT in it.
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Spit 14 is one of my fav planes to go up against because most pilots dont knwo how to fly them (niether dfo i for that matter, but that doesnt matter i never flown it). But flown by a good pilot and it can be deadly.
The F4U-4 however, even a nooby pilot can do good in it, but a good pilot can do GREAT in it.
well spoken :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok ect...
BTW, try taking the spitfire 14 offline and just fly it for a few minuets, I think you will like it.
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Spit XIV. :aok
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I'm not a very good Corsair pilot, but I can do respectably in the 4 hog, simply because that plane is a farging BEAST. It's unbelievably powerful, and pretty much as fast as it gets. But I will admit that I do as well as I do in the -4 only because I keep it fast and use its speed to my advantage. I'm not good enough in the Corsair to get slow and turn-fight with people like some folks do.
I think I fly the -4 differently than I fly the other Corsairs, and that helps me.
I think a lot of people fly the Spit 14 like they'd fly the Spit 16, and that hurts them.
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I think a lot of people fly the Spit 14 like they'd fly the Spit 16, and that hurts them.
yes they do. Never ever never fly a spit 14 like a spit 16
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yes they do. Never ever never fly a spit 14 like a spit 16
Dive with the 14 and you're going to regret it when your wings disappear. Dive with a 16 and you're going to need to put rockets on the back to "magically" R.I.P. the wings off. Turn with a 14 and you might do 3 rolls before you notice how sharp you're turning. Turn with a 16, same $#!|.
I still prefer the F4U-4...
-FYB
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Spit 14 sheds its wings too easily in AH. I've never read of Spit 14s having that problem, other than a couple that were incorrectly reassembled in India after having been shipped from the UK.
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There's something that can be asked for in the wishlist.
-FYB
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thanks guys for the welcome and advice!
now if i can just get on your 6 for a few seconds! lol!
see you in the air!
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4 Hog pwns all spits.. :rock
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Spit 14 sheds its wings too easily in AH. I've never read of Spit 14s having that problem, other than a couple that were incorrectly reassembled in India after having been shipped from the UK.
If you fly the 14 alot, you will get a good feel for it. And you will know when your wings are about to get ripped off, so you will know how hard can you pull your stick.
I don't remember the last time I lost my wings in spit 14.
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ill take the -4 over the spit 14 any day :rock
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4 Hog pwns all spits.. :rock
ill take the -4 over the spit 14 any day :rock
Just wondering, did you guys ever fly the spitfire 14?
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Just wondering, did you guys ever fly the spitfire 14?
Spitfire Mk XIV out climbs the F4U-4 by a bit and has slightly heavier firepower. In all other ways the F4U-4 is superior.
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Spitfire Mk XIV out climbs the F4U-4 by a bit and has slightly heavier firepower. In all other ways the F4U-4 is superior.
spitfire's airframe conserves energy much better than the F4U's.
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See it more deepens on what airplane you know how to fly better.
In aces high they made the F4U much easier to control than the spitfire 14, so people who don't really know a lot about both airplanes say that F4U is the best.
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The 14 is too restricted by that torque Mach. That's what it boils down to. Everything else (weak wings, contextually weak firepower, etc) is instrumental to its sum inferiority, but nothing else more than it.
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The 14 is...restricted by that torque Mach.
True, that is a disadvantage.
Every time I feel bad about it's torque, I just go offline and do 1 take off on a tempest :D
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The 14 is too restricted by that torque Mach. That's what it boils down to. Everything else (weak wings, contextually weak firepower, etc) is instrumental to its sum inferiority, but nothing else more than it.
Fix that, and then you can perk it. Otherwise, unperk it. Its pretty much a weaker 16...
-FYB
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Why does it need fixing?
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FIX THE WINGS, try diving and pulling up at speeds regular aircraft won't break. The wings will be floating behind you, equaling, no wings, no flight, same as death.
-FYB
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Just confused cause you said that quoting my post on its torque. Can you debunk BnZ's claim that the spit14 can spike 8G at ~500mph with no damage?
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Just wondering, did you guys ever fly the spitfire 14?
yes i have flown the Spit 14 plenty of times and even though i am not as good in a spit as a Hog, i feel that if i were fighting my clone in a Spit 14, i would win.
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Its pretty much a weaker 16...
Don't you mean, It's pretty much a more more powerful 16?
Fix that, and then you can perk it. Otherwise, unperk it.
you might want to visit this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,263195.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,263195.0.html)
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yes i have flown the Spit 14 plenty of times
plenty is a point of view? What exactly do you mean?
Do you at least have more than 10 hours in spitfire 14?
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I'll probably end up flying the Spit14 to burn my perks back to 0 to see what's so special about it. Losing 262's is too boring cause you run out of perks too quick.
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I'll probably end up flying the Spit14 to burn my perks back to 0 to see what's so special about it. Losing 262's is too boring cause you run out of perks too quick.
:confused:
Why not dogfight in a temp? you won't lose your perks as fast as in a 262, but faster than in spit 14.
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:confused:
Why not dogfight in a temp? you won't lose your perks as fast as in a 262, but faster than in spit 14.
Not sure yet. Undecided if I'm deleting my account for a few months or not...game just isn't what it used to be, probably never will be but I've got some hope I guess. Could dogfight in a temp I suppose.
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post deleted
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e-Ra0dH-Lg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e-Ra0dH-Lg)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e-Ra0dH-Lg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e-Ra0dH-Lg)
Never gets old. :lol
And spikes, put down the light bomber and pick up the Irons. You'll love the German side. :devil
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Spitfire Mk XIV out climbs the F4U-4 by a bit and has slightly heavier firepower. In all other ways the F4U-4 is superior.
Did you try true energy and the corkscrew?
Must say though that the F4U as it is now, is one #### pain ;)
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Only this weekend I realized how much bigger the F4U is than a spitfire.
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Soda's writeups are good but not perfect. The Ta152's not exactly accurate either.
Moot can you expand further on the TA152, its quite an intresting plane and I would like to fly it more
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I'm working on it.. It's a bit difficiult to tie everything together while still keeping it concise.
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Spits are one of the easiest aircraft to take down once you get a shot. F4U's will take all sorts of 50 cals before they lose anything important.
yeah
i once took both wings of a spixteen with 2 hits from my hispano cannon