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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: TheZohan on March 05, 2009, 05:01:17 AM

Title: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: TheZohan on March 05, 2009, 05:01:17 AM
i was flying that thing a few days ago and the firepower was so devastating. when i got shot down i just reupped and killed some more. maybe if it was perked i would think twice about being so careless about just reupping over and over.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Bronk on March 05, 2009, 05:15:59 AM
Perk the Wirble also? You know with the over modeled turret rotation speed and over modeled quad infinite continuous fire?
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Bruv119 on March 05, 2009, 05:18:09 AM
if the  37mm IL gets perked so should the wirble,  they cancel each other out, I do feel a little sorry for the panzer drivers with no A2A cover they are like shooting fish in a barrel.   But hey thats fun right  :cool:


DISCO!!!  DISCO!!!
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: TheZohan on March 05, 2009, 05:18:56 AM
no i dont think so, but thats why you have tanks to take out wierbles so the il2 can take out the heavier GV's

Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: rapp25 on March 05, 2009, 05:49:33 AM
A slight perk on both <8~ might be good but I don't really have a major problem with either as they are as they cancel each other out. The IL2 needs fighter protection just as the tanks need wirbel protection when both are operating in same area. But yeah an IL2 hovering round panzers only means trouble.  I would rather they put the Ju87-G2 version into the game with its 12 round 37mm flak pods I imagine theyd be difficult to aim similar to the hurris 40mm vickers. The IL2 carries too much of those lethal 37mms but thats history.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Ghosth on March 05, 2009, 05:50:24 AM
Go away zohan, crawl back under the rock you crawled out off. Don't need trolls here.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: TheZohan on March 05, 2009, 05:53:36 AM
ghost if you want to flame then i suggest you go elsewhere.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Max on March 05, 2009, 07:34:40 AM
I smell stank
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: VonMessa on March 05, 2009, 07:45:25 AM
no i dont think so, but thats why you have tanks to take out wierbles so the il2 can take out the heavier GV's



Whirble?  I have tanks to take out the endless IL2-tards, I find it more amusing and dramatic that way.

And the resulting whines are absolutely priceless, I mean totally and utterly top shelf.  :devil

I think it was 25 or 30 total last tour ( you can check if you like)
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: skullman on March 05, 2009, 08:09:11 AM
just gotta change tactics-I love seeing sleek fighters swooping in to chew on some IL
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 05, 2009, 08:53:33 AM
I'm not sure the IL-2 needs to be perked as much as it needs to have its ENY/OBJ scores adjusted.

CUrrently, it has a 25 ENY.... and why???  Because HTC doesnt pay close enough attention after they get it in game with regards to ENY/OBJ scores.  The IL-2 is a MUCH better aircraft than the 25 ENY.  Nothing rips open gv's like it regardless of 23mm or 37mm. 

The 2 biggest travesties in ENY scoring are the IL-2 and the Fw190A-8.  The IL-2 would be better served with a 12 or 15 ENY (seriously, stop and think how devistating it is even with out ord), and the 190A-8 is a far better aircraft than a 31 ENY (the dual 30mm in the nose make it the best single engine "porker" and bomber hunter in the game).
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: rapp25 on March 05, 2009, 09:01:37 AM
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/ju87g/ju87g-2.jpg)

Seen as the stuka is hardly used in the game perk up the IL2 or fix the eny/obj and add this baby!
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: waystin2 on March 05, 2009, 09:35:00 AM
I will leave the perking, ENY & OBJ discussion to the experts.  The only thing I question about the IL-2 37mm package is the guns ability to maintain accuracy with sustained firing.

"Proving ground trials carried out at NII AV VVS KA (this abbreviation means 'Science Lab of the Air Force of Red Army'), showed that firing of the NS-37 in the IL-2 was to be done in short controlled bursts-no more than 2-3 shells a burst. This was to be done in accordance with the fact that the cannons were not synchronized to fire together -resulting in massive jolting of the aircraft which disrupted the aircraft's line of fire. "

Here is the link with support docs:

http://www.battlefield.ru/content/view/239/123/lang,en/ (http://www.battlefield.ru/content/view/239/123/lang,en/)
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Anaxogoras on March 05, 2009, 09:40:57 AM
I will leave the perking, ENY & OBJ discussion to the experts.

There are no experts in this field.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: TheZohan on March 05, 2009, 09:45:16 AM
wasnt there some plane that the firing of there cannons made it stop or slow down from the force..
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: waystin2 on March 05, 2009, 09:49:22 AM
There are no experts in this field.

Well how about those who are willing to debate the vagaries a bit more than myself.... :D
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 05, 2009, 12:54:14 PM
wasnt there some plane that the firing of there cannons made it stop or slow down from the force..

Quite a few, actually.  It was also said that the early model B52's actually gained a few knots of speed when the rear gunner (20mm?) fired for any amount of time.  Take it for what it is worth.   :)

In regards to the IL-2's accuracy, even the Hurricare IID hasa bit of a jolt when firing.  Nothing to really make it less accurate, but it is far more noticable than when firing the IL-2 much faster firing 37mm.

Does anyone have pics of the Soviet 37mm and British 40mm shells?  I'm curious as to how they compare in case size.  IIRC, the British 40mm was a naval gun that fired an HE warhead and the IL-2 fired an AP projectile, yes? 
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 05, 2009, 12:55:02 PM
There are no experts in this field.

Perhaps, but there are many people to have shown that HTC is amongst the crowd as being "not in the know" as well.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 05, 2009, 01:07:37 PM
Those that cry for the IL2 to be perked are the same limp wristed players that cry to perk the WW, LA-7, P-51D or any other plane or vehicle they can't kill due to lack of skill.

IL2 doesn't need to be perked.  If you want to protect your vehicles from being attacked, bring along some mobile AA cover and friendly air support.  IL2s won't last very long if there is friendly DEFCAP in place to cover the attacking GVs.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 05, 2009, 01:09:36 PM
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/ju87g/ju87g-2.jpg)

Seen as the stuka is hardly used in the game perk up the IL2 or fix the eny/obj and add this baby!

So you guys can spam the forums with "PERK THE G-2!" threads?


ack-ack
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Masherbrum on March 05, 2009, 01:14:01 PM
wasnt there some plane that the firing of there cannons made it stop or slow down from the force..

The A-10.    The force exerted from the AWG-8/A cannon offsets the forward thrust of the engines.   No other plane had this characteristic in all of my readings.   At least this is the only PROVEN case, I've ever heard mentioned.

This is a WWII flight sim.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: skullman on March 05, 2009, 07:00:04 PM
just leave em as is.Just have to change tactics
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: AWwrgwy on March 05, 2009, 07:10:26 PM
The A-10.    The force exerted from the AWG-8/A cannon offsets the forward thrust of the engines.   No other plane had this characteristic in all of my readings.   At least this is the only PROVEN case, I've ever heard mentioned.

This is a WWII flight sim.

Why aren't there more cannon powered aircraft?  It would seem to be a pretty good source of power if one 30mm rotary cannon can offset the thrust of two turbofans enough to stop forward movement.


 :noid


wrongway
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 05, 2009, 07:47:23 PM
Those that cry for the IL2 to be perked are the same limp wristed players that cry to perk the WW, LA-7, P-51D or any other plane or vehicle they can't kill due to lack of skill.

IL2 doesn't need to be perked.  If you want to protect your vehicles from being attacked, bring along some mobile AA cover and friendly air support.  IL2s won't last very long if there is friendly DEFCAP in place to cover the attacking GVs.


ack-ack

Your "lack of skill" arguement is getting old.  It has nothing to so with skill and everything to do with the capability extremes of an aircraft.  Stop being so quick on the knee jerk.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: E25280 on March 05, 2009, 07:57:25 PM
I'm not sure the IL-2 needs to be perked as much as it needs to have its ENY/OBJ scores adjusted.

CUrrently, it has a 25 ENY.... and why???  Because HTC doesnt pay close enough attention after they get it in game with regards to ENY/OBJ scores.  The IL-2 is a MUCH better aircraft than the 25 ENY.  Nothing rips open gv's like it regardless of 23mm or 37mm. 

The 2 biggest travesties in ENY scoring are the IL-2 and the Fw190A-8.  The IL-2 would be better served with a 12 or 15 ENY (seriously, stop and think how devistating it is even with out ord), and the 190A-8 is a far better aircraft than a 31 ENY (the dual 30mm in the nose make it the best single engine "porker" and bomber hunter in the game).
IMO the ENY scores for aircraft have more to do with its A2A capability than its A2G capability.  In this regard, I don't think the IL-2 rates as low as a 25, to be honest.

You would almost need a third ENY score (in addition to ENY and OBJ) to rate the planes comparably.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 05, 2009, 08:01:26 PM
Your "lack of skill" arguement is getting old.  It has nothing to so with skill and everything to do with the capability extremes of an aircraft.  Stop being so quick on the knee jerk.

I am sorry if the truth has struck a nerve with you but it is what it is.  No one has shown any definitive proof on why the IL2 needs to be perked.  Every argument to have it perked is always based on how the IL2 killed so and so's tank and they didn't like it because they can no longer spawn camp with impunity.

So, show us (backed up by concrete proof) on how the IL2 unbalances the game play and as such, needs to be perked.  


ack-ack
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 05, 2009, 08:10:35 PM
IMO the ENY scores for aircraft have more to do with its A2A capability than its A2G capability.  In this regard, I don't think the IL-2 rates as low as a 25, to be honest.

You would almost need a third ENY score (in addition to ENY and OBJ) to rate the planes comparably.

I'm not sure about the AvA ability being the base for the ENY score.  The 110G-2 isnt anywhere near the other aircraft in the 10 ENY range when it comes to AvA ability.

Who knows what or how the ENY is based on, I bet HTC cant even vouich for how they set things up, I know HTC cant vouch for how they maintain it that is for sure.  Stop and look at the stats and see how many planes are in the 20-30 range that are ahead in the game vs other coresponding aircraft in the same range.  Aircraft like the 190A-8 and IL-2 are so very inaccurately scored it isnt funny.  Look at the Wirblewind, Ostwind, and M16 and I dare anyone to tell me those ENY scores are relative to their ability and success.  HTC either is totally turning a blind eye or they dont care.    
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 05, 2009, 08:14:34 PM
I am sorry if the truth has struck a nerve with you but it is what it is.  No one has shown any definitive proof on why the IL2 needs to be perked.  Every argument to have it perked is always based on how the IL2 killed so and so's tank and they didn't like it because they can no longer spawn camp with impunity.

So, show us (backed up by concrete proof) on how the IL2 unbalances the game play and as such, needs to be perked.  


ack-ack

I didnt say it needed to be perked.  Keep showing you egotistical and immature side, you're doing well.  My point was how you kneejerk with the same response.

The IL-2 doesnt need to be perked, it needs an ENY adjustment because it is a far more menace than its 25 ENY shows.  Ords aside, no other plane can rip apart a gv like an IL-2 and the ENY does not reflect that.  Both the Hurricane IID and the IL-2 have the same ENY of 25... care to explain that one??? 
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 05, 2009, 08:21:42 PM
Ords aside, no other plane can rip apart a gv like an IL-2 and the ENY does not reflect that. 

B-25H can kill any GV in this game with one round and further out than the IL2 can.


As for the ENY, ask HiTech why he gave the numbers as he did.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 05, 2009, 08:27:40 PM
B-25H can kill any GV in this game with one round and further out than the IL2 can.


As for the ENY, ask HiTech why he gave the numbers as he did.


ack-ack

OK... if the B25 is so good then why isnt it being used more?  Oh, and what is the ENY of the B25H??? That 75mm HE has a trajectory like a bowling ball falling off the shelf and it isnt any more able to destroy a tank than the IL-2 at typical ranges (800 yards and closer). 

Oh?  HTC did mention why???  Do us all a favor and link that thread.  I've done the searches as others have... and there is nothing out there.  Nothing recent and certainly not since the IL-2 was re-done with the dual 37mm.  If there was something posted, then lets save everyone a lot of time and have it pinned up top, shall we???
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Bronk on March 05, 2009, 08:41:01 PM
Perk the Wirble also? You know with the over modeled turret rotation speed and over modeled quad infinite continuous fire?
This was kind of just a poke at the OP. I do not want the wirble perked. Just fixed and the eny adjusted. :aok
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: moot on March 05, 2009, 08:57:07 PM
The B25H may not be easy to kill tanks with, from 3K out, but it can do it.  The Il2 can only do it from within 1.5K and that's with whacked out convergence/dispersion.  The trajectory is really not bad at all on the 75mm. It's actualy very good all the way out to 4K with moderate approach angles.  Do your homework preparing the shot, coming with speed and angle, and the limiting factor is how precise and smooth your controls are.  The gun isn't the bottleneck there.
The reason the 25H isn't used is because it's so much more dependent on air superiority.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: RMrider on March 05, 2009, 09:34:08 PM
Ack-Ack,

I have always respected you (and known enough not to start a BBS war with you  :lol)

However im not sure if its the lack of "skill" these guys have that causes them to want the IL2 perked. Many "skilled" pilots/Tankers can have some real problems with this monster.

I dont GV much anymore with the stick problems i have, messes with my GVing, but i have witnessed the IL2's fire power, and if it gets perked? sure perk the whirble. But i believe something should be done about the IL2,

I fly for knights, we dont tend to work together much  :lol, so unless you have squaddies on its hard to get a mobile AA gun to come with you on a GV sortie.

Actually... im not totally sure where im going with this, so ill end with this, i just dont like russian planes, get rid of the damned thing.  ;)

Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 05, 2009, 10:29:28 PM
The B25H may not be easy to kill tanks with, from 3K out, but it can do it.  The Il2 can only do it from within 1.5K and that's with whacked out convergence/dispersion.  The trajectory is really not bad at all on the 75mm. It's actualy very good all the way out to 4K with moderate approach angles.  Do your homework preparing the shot, coming with speed and angle, and the limiting factor is how precise and smooth your controls are.  The gun isn't the bottleneck there.
The reason the 25H isn't used is because it's so much more dependent on air superiority.

The IL-2 is far a more efficient gv killer than the B25H.  And if you really think the B25H can destroy gv's reliably from a 3-4k distance, I really want you to teach me that trick.  Seriously.  The furthest I've ever destroyed a gv with a B25H was very near 1000 yards and that was vs an M3.  I dont even think I hit it but rather the ground in front of it (area effect?)
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: moot on March 05, 2009, 10:36:51 PM
Seriously?  Shoot from above.  It'll work if you have a sensitive enough stick. I certainly don't.  That's the limiting factor, not the gun.
I'm pretty sure I've done it last year with Kappa.. We were shooting at flaks from ~3K out and nailed a couple of them. Turreted a good number of them. Landing a hit on the small areas that are vulnerable on e.g. a T34 from anything else than straight above (or even then) is extremely difficult.. But not impossible.  Jeeps and M3/16s are a piece of cake though, yep.  You just need to hit near enough and then let the (seemingly) random splash damage generator do the rest.  But again the ballistics aren't the limiting factor at all.  I've deacked fields from ~10kft and routinely overcompensated for shell drop.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on March 05, 2009, 10:55:31 PM
I would only say make the WW historic turret transverse wise, and put a TINY perk on the il-2 WITH the 37mm gun option. And only a small perk so as to not render the 23mm cannon version useless in the MA.





Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: gpwurzel on March 05, 2009, 11:25:50 PM
Moot, I may have been on the receiving end of that trick with the b25. Very infuriating it is too..... :D



Couldnt hit the plane at all, and I'm not a bad shot in a wirble/osti at times.

<S>

Wurzel
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: FYB on March 05, 2009, 11:53:34 PM
See Rule #2
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Plazus on March 17, 2009, 07:57:39 PM
I put my vote on a bigger gun package for the stuka.  :aok
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Anaxogoras on March 18, 2009, 11:00:44 AM
I love how the "work together" argument is selectively applied to GV's, but not to bomber pilots who get drones to make up for their lack of teamwork.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: MjTalon on March 18, 2009, 11:29:09 AM
The IL-2 is far a more efficient gv killer than the B25H.  And if you really think the B25H can destroy gv's reliably from a 3-4k distance, I really want you to teach me that trick.  Seriously.  The furthest I've ever destroyed a gv with a B25H was very near 1000 yards and that was vs an M3.  I dont even think I hit it but rather the ground in front of it (area effect?)

Simple. Tank weakpoints. Every tank has at least 2. Learn them, get that Trusty B25H gunsight, and you'll be popping them from those ranges. I've done it before before i went all luft. Just takes practice, patience, and execution.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: TheZohan on March 18, 2009, 11:33:21 AM
Simple. Tank weakpoints. Every tank has at least 2. Learn them, get that Trusty B25H gunsight, and you'll be popping them from those ranges. I've done it before before i went all luft. Just takes practice, patience, and execution.

every tank has weakpoints agreed.. with a 37mm il-2 i am more likely to get a kill not having to finetune a shot with a B25

if you made 50 passes on a 50 tanks with each what you think would have a higher kill ratio?

i would bet the il-2 hands down
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: SmokinLoon on March 18, 2009, 12:30:04 PM
Simple. Tank weakpoints. Every tank has at least 2. Learn them, get that Trusty B25H gunsight, and you'll be popping them from those ranges. I've done it before before i went all luft. Just takes practice, patience, and execution.

Every tank has a weak point.  Got it.  I'll right that down.   ;)  Lemme guess, the rear and top?  You're partially correct.  Weak point vs effective point, that is the next debate.  The easiest to hit is the side of the tank (or top if coming in from the tank's 9 or 3 O'Clock) because the target is wider and you can get both rounds on target for longer periods of time.  I rarely ever go for the front of a tank and if do it is to knock out the cheese armored turret of a T34x.

I can nail all of the tanks in the rear/top and take them out with the IL-2 or the Hurri IID (Hurri IID is much more of a challnge).  Not a big deal.  I can hit the sides of a all of the tanks and be about %75 as effective as I am when hitting the rear of a tank with the only exception being the Tiger.  That thing is tough.  Mind you, I'm firing from 400 and closer with no more than 3 volleys from the Hurri IID and maybe 5-6 from the IL-2/37mm.

The B25H may be a bad boy when it comes to taking out GV's, but it is too out matched in the air to go up without fighter support or complete air superiority.  Like Zohan said (and I completely agree), the IL-2 is by far the most efficient tank killer in the game and I believe the ENY/OBJ score is quite inaccrate.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Bronk on March 18, 2009, 02:54:45 PM
every tank has weakpoints agreed.. with a 37mm il-2 i am more likely to get a kill not having to finetune a shot with a B25

if you made 50 passes on a 50 tanks with each what you think would have a higher kill ratio?

i would bet the il-2 hands down
Bet my kill : hit ratio would be smoking in a b-25.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: skullman on March 18, 2009, 04:46:04 PM
the b25 is alot easier to kill than the IL.I found that raking pintle gun fire from gun to gun seems to be the most effective.Wont kill em but they limp home smoking
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: GGhost on April 26, 2009, 09:23:17 AM
The A-10.    The force exerted from the AWG-8/A cannon offsets the forward thrust of the engines.   No other plane had this characteristic in all of my readings.   At least this is the only PROVEN case, I've ever heard mentioned.

This is a WWII flight sim.

B25H = 75mm nose cannon ....although AH doesn't model this effect.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Nemisis on April 26, 2009, 09:50:05 AM
I agree with moot, the 75mm in not the problem, it's the pilots, they use wrong approach angles, speeds, (I saw someone at around 10K, they dove to 4K and used the speed from that dive in their approach... with his target 1.5k in front of him!!! he missed so bad I almost crashed my fighter because I was LOL'ing so hard :D but then I told him to either start further back, or to slow down.) etc. And moot, I have seen B25's flown quite aggressively, infact it almost like some ace A20G pilots had switched planes, they actually killed quite a few planes and gv's even some jeeps, and when those are pulling hard turns they can be fairly hard to hit so I think it is safe to say that if you are a good enough pilot and have a good gunner then they don't quite rely on air superiority. :salute
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: sethipus on April 26, 2009, 02:10:56 PM
OK... if the B25 is so good then why isnt it being used more?  Oh, and what is the ENY of the B25H??? That 75mm HE has a trajectory like a bowling ball falling off the shelf and it isnt any more able to destroy a tank than the IL-2 at typical ranges (800 yards and closer).
Yes it is.  Very much so.  Yes, it's not that hard to destroy Panzers and wirbels and whatnot in the IL-2.  In the B25H, it's not hard at all to destroy T34s, Shermans, and it's even possible to kill Tigers with them.  Tell me that the T34, Sherman, and Tiger are easily killable with the IL-2.  They simply aren't.  Sure, knock a turret off the T34, or whatever, but outright kill?  Not very often.

Anyhow, when I fire at tanks nowadays with the B25H, I usually wait till like 400 yards or less, and then try to put the round into the deck area behind the turret, or on top of the turret.  That's usually a one-shot kill.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Lusche on April 26, 2009, 02:18:32 PM
Yes it is.  Very much so.  Yes, it's not that hard to destroy Panzers and wirbels and whatnot in the IL-2.  In the B25H, it's not hard at all to destroy T34s, Shermans, and it's even possible to kill Tigers with them.  Tell me that the T34, Sherman, and Tiger are easily killable with the IL-2.  They simply aren't.  Sure, knock a turret off the T34, or whatever, but outright kill? 

Sorry, they are, especially the Tiger is easy meat for the 37mm Il-2.
Yes, the 75mm round from the B-25H does it even a tad better, but as both planes are more then capable to destroy any tank on the battlefield, their secondary charactristics start to play the major role. And there the 25 is losing to the Il-2 by a huge margin.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Enker on April 26, 2009, 02:47:38 PM
OK... if the B25 is so good then why isnt it being used more?  Oh, and what is the ENY of the B25H??? That 75mm HE has a trajectory like a bowling ball falling off the shelf and it isnt any more able to destroy a tank than the IL-2 at typical ranges (800 yards and closer). 

Oh?  HTC did mention why???  Do us all a favor and link that thread.  I've done the searches as others have... and there is nothing out there.  Nothing recent and certainly not since the IL-2 was re-done with the dual 37mm.  If there was something posted, then lets save everyone a lot of time and have it pinned up top, shall we???
Why destroy a tank when you can stop all of its movement by popping off a tread or two with one shot. Der.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Spikes on April 26, 2009, 02:53:10 PM
A few words from me:
Lower Il2's ENY. Fix the dad gum wirble...1.) lower gun traverse speed 2.) 20 round clips 3.) not firing all of it's 3000 rounds at once.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: comet61 on April 27, 2009, 05:56:32 PM
I don't agree to perk the IL-2; adjust the OBJ, ENY perhaps...but that's it.

Honestly..my perferred weapon of choice vs. the IL-2 is the Ostwind.  After flying and killing IL-2's, they have the ability to soak up a lot of 20mm rounds from a Wirb, whereas an IL-2 doesn't fair to well with a few well placed shots from an Osti. Trick is however, it to do that before thay bear down on you and kill you.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: moot on April 27, 2009, 06:47:24 PM
A few words from me:
Lower Il2's ENY. Fix the dad gum wirble...1.) lower gun traverse speed 2.) 20 round clips 3.) not firing all of it's 3000 rounds at once.
What about the other guns?  Doesn't the 110C4 have similar setup, with the MGFF's drums reloaded by the gunner?  Where do you draw the line, what is the arbitrary to separate those vehicles that get strict realism and those that don't?  Ammo counters in a P47 might not mean much, but the Tiger's optics were a definite advantage in WWII.  Enough that it could land the first round near the target, which would be enough to give it a more historical dominance in AH. 
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Lye-El on April 28, 2009, 07:05:13 PM
A few words from me:
Lower Il2's ENY. Fix the dad gum wirble...1.) lower gun traverse speed 2.) 20 round clips 3.) not firing all of it's 3000 rounds at once.

And give gun jams on fighters. Be more realistic. (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Sarge/Whatever_anim.gif)
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 28, 2009, 08:05:45 PM
I hope someday i can lob a 75mm under a tank,and sent that sucka' rolling end over end.



Kill or not, that would be the dream.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Wingnutt on April 29, 2009, 12:40:05 AM
I hope someday i can lob a 75mm under a tank,and sent that sucka' rolling end over end.



Kill or not, that would be the dream.

more like a fantasy, as the explosive force of the 75mm shell is not even a fraction of what would be needed to flip a tank over.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Plazus on April 29, 2009, 02:30:51 PM
My thoughts on this:

-Lower the ENY to around 10-15.
-Perk only the 37mm gun package to about 3 perks or so.
-For everything else, leave the perk price free at a consistent ENY of 10-15

This shouldnt frighten too many people for this setup. But maybe we may see a little more discipline on the use of the IL2. Keep in mind, too, that the IL2 has relatively short legs. It is also very, very slow. These two reasons are good points to make against perking the IL2 or its gun package...
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: waystin2 on April 30, 2009, 10:21:51 AM
I am not concerned about a Perk for the IL-2, but I do think the accuracy of the cannons needs to be downgraded when continously fired. 

"Proving ground trials carried out at NII AV VVS KA (this abbreviation means 'Science Lab of the Air Force of Red Army'), showed that firing of the NS-37 in the IL-2 was to be done in short controlled bursts-no more than 2-3 shells a burst. This was to be done in accordance with the fact that the cannons were not synchronized to fire together -resulting in massive jolting of the aircraft which disrupted the aircraft's line of fire. The correction of fire was possible in this case."

See link for information:
http://www.battlefield.ru/content/view/239/123/lang,en/
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Ghosth on April 30, 2009, 12:54:37 PM
If your going to perk the iL2 you need to perk the Wirble. Each keeps the other from being unbalancing. iL2's keep the Wirble in check with not much practice. And the Wirbel's keep the iL2 in check with not much practice.

On opposite sides they are each the others natural enemy, and on same sides each others best friend and teammate.

You can't change access to one without doing it to both, and I just don't see HTC doing it.

They may be annoying at times, but each has weaknesses that the other can exploit.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Plazus on May 01, 2009, 05:31:27 PM
If your going to perk the iL2 you need to perk the Wirble. Each keeps the other from being unbalancing. iL2's keep the Wirble in check with not much practice. And the Wirbel's keep the iL2 in check with not much practice.

On opposite sides they are each the others natural enemy, and on same sides each others best friend and teammate.

You can't change access to one without doing it to both, and I just don't see HTC doing it.

They may be annoying at times, but each has weaknesses that the other can exploit.

Nicely put! And I agree that HTC may not perk the IL2. Besides, the IL2 is simply too slow with short legs for it to be a "threat" to faster, more agile, aircraft.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Karnak on May 01, 2009, 07:38:45 PM
This video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-a8U1QWUw

Has six seconds of the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII firing the automatic 57mm Molins gun while on the ground.  The footage is from 0:35 to 0:41 seconds.  It gives a good idea of the kick that weapon had.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: BnZs on May 01, 2009, 07:54:12 PM
If your going to perk the iL2 you need to perk the Wirble. Each keeps the other from being unbalancing.

And they also now constitute the vast majority of a2g planes and g2a vehicles. Lightly perk both the 37s and the WW to restore some variety.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: shreck on May 01, 2009, 08:15:40 PM
 P E R K   I T !!!!!
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: moot on May 01, 2009, 10:01:03 PM
The 37mm on the AH Il2 fire together.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Ghosth on May 03, 2009, 06:59:48 AM
BnZ with respect sir, I disagree.

The A20 and the B25h are seen just as much as the iL2 is.

Even if you did perk the wirble, you would still have the osty to deal with.
Sorry but AH is and always has been a matter of adapt or die.

Tactics, field capture methods, strat, all have one thing in common. They have changed with every significant release.

It is the way it is going to be until they release something else that changes things.
Adapt and accept it.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Lusche on May 03, 2009, 08:18:40 AM
BnZ with respect sir, I disagree.

The A20 and the B25h are seen just as much as the iL2 is.

Hm, not in the AH I am playing ;)

The popularity of the B-25H as a tank killer had taken 2 major hits: First by the introduction of the Wirbelwind, which suddenly made flying low & slow over the battlefield a pretty dangerous thing, and second by the appearance of the 37mm Sturmovik wich is more survivable and easier to score in.

As usual, some data:

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1932/clipboard01sdr.jpg)


Also I respectfully disagree on the "new" Il-2 being a counter to the Wirbelwind. It' not better than the "old"  il-2 in killing it, and the 23mm version is actually better suited to disable the turret.

The 37mm Il-2 is mainly negating the former advantage of killing ords at a base, as it is the bane of every GV rolling to a field, Tiger & T34 included


That being said, I am not for perking the Il-2, nor the Wirbelwind (though I really want to see it's ENY lowered)
But in my personal vision of a perked ords system, it would be a perked option.


Snailman
(who is still crying about how the Wirbel made his Hurri D obsolete)
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: BnZs on May 03, 2009, 08:59:10 AM
Osti is a significantly harder to shoot with. Especially when it comes to annoying fighters in a low dogfight, as opposed to targeting bombers. Of course the Osti *is* superior in some regards, particularly when dealing with A-20s.

And I don't see near as many A-20s or anything else looking to kill tanks with a bomb as I used to. Except for those padding bomber or attack scores by annoying tank-town. :rolleyes: The Il2 option is just too much easier. I understand the argument, that it is soooo easy to pork the ords in a suicide 190 and drop the VH, then roll vehicles in unopposed, and that was annoying. IMO, it would make a lot more sense to fix it to where one suicide 190 couldn't disable bombs at a base.

BnZ with respect sir, I disagree.

The A20 and the B25h are seen just as much as the iL2 is.

Even if you did perk the wirble, you would still have the osty to deal with.
Sorry but AH is and always has been a matter of adapt or die.

Tactics, field capture methods, strat, all have one thing in common. They have changed with every significant release.

It is the way it is going to be until they release something else that changes things.
Adapt and accept it.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: macerxgp on May 03, 2009, 05:37:06 PM
There is one more situation where the B25H does not need air superiority.

However, only the Rooks can use it in such a manner, as it heavily involves Limbo0.

The chatter on channel 200 is PRICELESS.

Gotta love the good old 20-man B25H raids. Even more fun than Looney Gooney.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: oakranger on May 04, 2009, 01:46:50 AM
37 mm Il-2 should be perk.  The other down dam near made it home with a half of wing after the Il-2 hit me from 2k out.  What the hell is that about. 
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: moot on May 04, 2009, 02:50:17 AM
"damned"
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Rich46yo on May 04, 2009, 04:03:50 AM
37 mm Il-2 should be perk.  The other down dam near made it home with a half of wing after the Il-2 hit me from 2k out.  What the hell is that about. 

"Dam near made it home"? Ive "made it home" in Hellcats with 1/2 a wing and oil shot up. Shoot the huge oil target in the IL-2 and the bird has maybe two minutes flight time. Actually the IL-2 is very easy to shoot down. Easier then real life accounts have it. Ive shot them down plenty of times with a single 0.50 and dont hesitate to engage them with any gun package in the game. Against fighters, even bombers, and flak they are as easy to kill, or easier, as a heavy Jabo.

I think this game, the players, were used to racking up lotsa perks with the Panzer lV prior to the big cannon being put on the Storm birds. And the 37mm makes easy meat of Panzers.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Hazard69 on May 04, 2009, 04:47:43 AM
I think this game, the players, were used to racking up lotsa perks with the Panzer lV prior to the big cannon being put on the Storm birds. And the 37mm makes easy meat of Panzers.

That might be it.
I haven't had much more success in my IL2/37mm (though thats probably due to the fact that I cant aim and I refuse to spend on a good stick). On the other hand Ive been in T34s where 37mm IL2s have strafed me till they were out of ammo. I have also shot down a few IL2s in a T34 (love the gun traverse and HVAP).

I think the WW and the IL2 are fine as they are, though the IL2 seems pretty easy to down and not as tough as its reputation (that maybe though due to its reputation not being forged facing too many 50cal armed aircraft).
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: Xasthur on May 04, 2009, 09:53:48 PM
This video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ-a8U1QWUw

Has six seconds of the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII firing the automatic 57mm Molins gun while on the ground.  The footage is from 0:35 to 0:41 seconds.  It gives a good idea of the kick that weapon had.

Sweet jesus.

Gimme gimme gimme.
Title: Re: Perk the 37MM Il-2
Post by: oakranger on May 05, 2009, 11:17:15 AM
How dose one to be perked?