Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oakranger on April 14, 2009, 12:17:46 AM
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Have any of you watch this documentary film about the health care system? Oh, it was directed by Micheal Moore. Despite i don't take his side, this one i do. The health care system is a joke. It always have and always will. They are the scum of the earth. Forget about the banks, oil companies and CEO's pay. Medical Health Insurance companies are sticking it to us and we are all suckers.
I was denied because i have Hepatitis C. They calmed it is a deadly disease and that there is no medication that can kill the virus. Well, i had that dam disease for 26 years, it is not deadly unless i drink alcohol heavily (i don't drink at all) and still alive.
My humble opinion about the health care system, they are all a bunch of HOs. Are you happy with you health insurance?
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Before I respond, what would be your solution to the problem?
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Yes, i need a time machine to take me back and stop from getting it.
But what i am most focusing on this topice is how the health insurance making lot and lots of money yet, they try to find ways to reject your calamine. Not all the time this happens, but it happens. It is a joke how they paint a pretty pitcher of them self but behind that there is the truth.
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The individual policy health insurance industry is geared toward young healthy people.
If you cant get coverage, don't worry, after all of your assets are liquidated and used for medical care you will qualify for medicaid.
shamus
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Your first mistake is calling that program a "documentary". I suppose you think that I should pay the health care costs that are due to your poor decision making?
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They are wrong about Hep C. My stepfather got it from a blood transfusion in the '70s before they knew it existed. Anyway, I don't know what sort of treatment he received, but he was cured. They are jerking you around. Contact a lawyer.
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Michael Moore is a tard.
Healthcare is a joke, this is not news.
As Gavagai said, procure the services of an attorney. Try to find one that works on percentage, and doesn't take a retainer. Any good attorney will have a 1st impression as to wether or not you have a case, and can he/she win it or not.
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They are wrong about Hep C. My stepfather got it from a blood transfusion in the '70s before they knew it existed. Anyway, I don't know what sort of treatment he received, but he was cured. They are jerking you around. Contact a lawyer.
I got it from a blood transfusion too in 1981. Ask him what he did to eradicated it.
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Sluggish
Yr reply was in very poor taste ....
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Here is his reply:
I had interferon and ribavirin.
The fact is, even though I've been tested every year since my treatment in 2001 with no hint of Hep C virus in my blood, the insurance companies would still refuse to insure me if I was applying as an individual. They can't turn me down as part of a group which is why I have no problem while I'm working.
In California they have a state subsidized program under HIPAA that will cover me, but it's quite expensive and I had to use it for awhile. I don't know about Indiana, but your friend should investigate what the state has to offer, whatever state your friend is in.
This is one reason I hate insurance companies.
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Health care in America is the best you will find. Try having a long term illness in a country with socialized medicine. The ONLY positive on that is that in some cases, their prescription costs are less.
If you are bashing the insurance industry, they have their rules because people with pre-existing diseases and illnesses are a drain on their reserves. Companies can deny based on potential insurees being overweight as well. Fact is, for decades in America companies can and do deny coverage for those with pre-existing diseases because they are an extremely poor risk...and that is the ENTIRE premise that insurance (any) is based on---risk. People with pre-existing illnesses are an extremely poor risk.
There are even "fraternal" insurance companies that are run with no profit at all ("Woodmen of The World" for example). Others have to have massive cash reserves on hand (by state law) to pay out claims...billions, if need be.
Companies run ads & commericals encouraging people to get coverage when they are young BEFORE they get diseases or illnesses. Anyone who doesn't is simply gambling with their health care future. Sometimes they never get sick or get diseases and it pays off and the vast majority of the time they end up getting sick/injured and have to pay the entire 100% of the bill--and go bankrupt...here's another stat no one wants to hear...80% of all people who go bankrupt due to medical bills HAD major medical---and no supplimental whatsoever.
Worse yet, those who have major medical and think that it covers everything--it doesn't. MM covers about 80% of your health care bills. If you don't have a decent MM suppliment policy you get stuck for the other 20%. Most people don't think that when they get very sick or in an accident that when the bill comes to $200,000---they get stuck for $40,000 that's left over. Even while some supplimentals cost as little as a whopping $6 a week--millions of Americans don't even have it. I guess they think that scratching a check for $40,000 is no big deal.
If you want to point a finger at abuse in the system, point it at the millions who know they need insurance and don't get it. They get sick or hurt and end up in the ER--with NO insurance and expect free treatment. When they default on the bill, the cost has to be written off as a loss and as operating costs go up--costs of services go up. I have even seen private hospitals turn people with no insurance away. Public hospitals (who get national, state, or local tax dollars as funding) have to eat the loss--at the expense of people who are insured as well as taxpayers.
Go look at any hospital ER and look around. Just under half have no insurance at all. When they get treated, who pays for that? We all do.
Getting a lawyer to attempt to sue a company for refusing to write you will be a waste of your time and resources.
Companies have a right to deny writing anyone with pre-existing conditions they feel are a bad risk...that includes heart attacks, strokes, fibromyalgia, cancer, hepetitis, cirrohis, diabetes, and a laundry list of about 30 others.
Had anyone gotten coverage before their condition, they would enjoy 80% to 100% right now (depending on their coverage).
Shop around. There are some companies that WILL write you for any other condition other than your current one. There are a boatload of different kinds of cancer, yet, most companies that offer a cancer policy will write you for every other type of cancer other than the one someone already had.
It's all about risk and transferring risk of one person to a group of many.
ROX
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Health care in America is the best you will find. Try having a long term illness in a country with socialized medicine.
Funny that life-expectancy is longer in Western Europe and Japan... Sorry skuzzy! :devil
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Funny that life-expectancy is longer in Western Europe and Japan... Sorry skuzzy! :devil
And you can attribute that to diet and exercise...something the US populus is sorely lacking for most.
ROX
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the problem is their concern is to make money and not to help people, thats the fundemental problem with health insurance.
They don't want to help the sick, only the healthy, heard that story a dozen times, its really sad.
Socialized health care has its flaws too, but I believe overall its a better deal.
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interferon and ribavirin, i took that crap in 1999. $3,000.00 a month for 9 months and i didn't help. I was sick every day, lost weight, hair, always was pale looking, shook a lot and most of all it kill me when it comes to running. I was able to to run 3 miles then when on that stuff, i was lucky to make it 200 meters.
The only good thing about having Hep C is that it is not sexually transmitted. So, FU Pama Anderson, looks like you been shooting crack with Tommy.
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the only complaint I have is one of my meds(lyrica) for some reason they dont want to pay for it.I will eventually get it but is huge hassle.When I hit 1 grand ins. went to paying 100%.It has saved me a bundle-that is an artteriogram 2surgeries rehab and a prosthesis.It could have cost me a good bit.And I purchased max long and short term disibility.That makes a difference on a weekly check.I
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Sluggish
Yr reply was in very poor taste ....
What is in poor taste is the idea that since I have a job and relatively good health I should pay for the healthcare of someone who has neither. Or are you suggesting that we extract said healthcare from providers with the barrel of a gun? I would find that in extremely poor taste.
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What is in poor taste is the idea that since I have a job and relatively good health I should pay for the healthcare of someone who has neither. Or are you suggesting that we extract said healthcare from providers with the barrel of a gun? I would find that in extremely poor taste.
That is an attitude that I find common in people who are covered under a group plan and figure that it will be there forever and through retirement, public employees and large corp types come to mind.
The eye opening happens when they get downsized or the employer discontinues the coverage, maybe in their 50's and they hit the individual market for coverage after the COBRA expires.
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Sluggish, you should also consider those who are self-employed entrepreneurs, or small business owners. Then there are poor souls who work 2 or 3 part-time jobs because they can't find full-time work. Just because you don't have access to cheap group health insurance doesn't mean you don't work.
Despite the extraordinary high cost of living in Japan, it still costs more to manufacture a car in the United States because of the health insurance and pension burdens on the US auto maker, whereas in Japan those benefits are public. Private health care costs in this country are making us less competitive capitalists!
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Sluggish, you should also consider those who are self-employed entrepreneurs, or small business owners. Then there are poor souls who work 2 or 3 part-time jobs because they can't find full-time work. Just because you don't have access to cheap group health insurance doesn't mean you don't work.
Despite the extraordinary high cost of living in Japan, it still costs more to manufacture a car in the United States because of the health insurance and pension burdens on the US auto maker, whereas in Japan those benefits are public. Private health care costs in this country are making us less competitive capitalists!
You apparently don't understand what "public" means. It means that the "cans" provide for the "can'ts" and "won'ts". You do this by either forcibly extracting the cost from a providing class or by forcibly extracting the service from the professionals.
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Go to flamewarriors. I'm done with this.
Oaktree, I hope you can work out some affordable health insurance. Good luck.
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That is not what it means. Everyone who pays into the health insurance program in Japan is covered with no pre-existing condition restrictions. People are free to not pay into it, but aren't covered. They are also free to use some other health insurance, but there is no need, since it is affordable for everyone. It includes dental and prescriptions also.
Doctors are in private practice and everyone can choose their doctor. There are private, community and university hospitals, just like in the US. People can choose wherever they want to go. Overall health care costs are substantially less than in the US because doctors don't have to pay $100,000 per year malpractice insurance. Many hospitals are non-profit. That doesn't mean that care is poor, it means that they charge enough to pay for all services and staff, plus funds for reinvestment in future equipment and building costs. Health care is health care with no $50 million CEO's. That's why you pay 5 times what I pay for the same tests and procedures and your health insurance is 5 times what I pay.
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(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2256/2205859072_7a3878468c.jpg)
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Go to flamewarriors. I'm done with this.
Oaktree, I hope you can work out some affordable health insurance. Good luck.
Thx Gavai.
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I'm not a fan of this "one or the other" mentality. Why can't we have socialized basic healthcare for all, and privatized healthcare for those that prefer and can afford it?
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You apparently don't understand what "public" means. It means that the "cans" provide for the "can'ts" and "won'ts". You do this by either forcibly extracting the cost from a providing class or by forcibly extracting the service from the professionals.
It means exactly what Rolex said.
Furthermore, just about everything Rolex stated is true.
I can see your point of paying for those who are unwilling to contribute themselves, but what about what Gavagai said about the people who are willing to work and contribute, but can't secure full-time employment (36 hrs./week here in PA). What about the senior citizens? I can tell, as my 87 year old grandfather lives with my wife and I, that MediCare is a crock and that he is damn lucky that he has a secondary insurance.
I also understand what Rox is saying, to a point. Americans, by and large, have become very lazy, complacent, and do not take care of themselves as well as they should.What I refuse to accept is the "burden" that insurance companies have to bear. They collect from both ends: the patients for the health care insurance AND from the Doctors with the (ever increasing and ridiculous) malpractice premiums. To ice that cake, somehow it is becoming more and more common that the insurance companies get to make the decision about what is "medically necessary" . Yes, it's a business based upon risk, but why refuse anyone. Wouldn't it be just as profitable to adjust premiums based on AMOUNT of risk?
I cannot say I am a big fan of socialized health care either. Not until all Doctors (and health care providers as a whole are all required to adhere to a higher standard to get into, or stay in, the health care system. Most doctors these days are like a M.A.S.H. unit. Diagnose and treat the symptom instead of the problem. "Here take this pill." Fear not, the drug manufacturers are cashing in on that one, also. I live about 5 minutes from Merck and in the past 20 years, I have seen their campus grow from a couple of acres to more than a square mile in size.
It's a shame that we, as Americans, live in one of the most prosperous countries in the world, but yet, cannot seem to take care of our own people (for whatever reason). One would think that as ingenious and resourceful as we pride ourselves to be, that we could figure this one out.
I do not even have the time to rant about how our vets are treated, either. How the very people who have pledged their flesh and blood to keep this country safe and free so that these big companies don't need to worry about socialism, etc, cannot even receive decent care for injuries sustained while in the line of duty just confounds me to no end.
Once the power to decide what is needed for a patient has been wrested from the insurance and drug companies and given back to the folks who have gone to school for years and years to become doctors, perhaps then things will be a bit more fair.
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It means exactly what Rolex said.
Furthermore, just about everything Rolex stated is true.
I can see your point of paying for those who are unwilling to contribute themselves, but what about what Gavagai said about the people who are willing to work and contribute, but can't secure full-time employment (36 hrs./week here in PA). What about the senior citizens? I can tell, as my 87 year old grandfather lives with my wife and I, that MediCare is a crock and that he is damn lucky that he has a secondary insurance.
I also understand what Rox is saying, to a point. Americans, by and large, have become very lazy, complacent, and do not take care of themselves as well as they should.What I refuse to accept is the "burden" that insurance companies have to bear. They collect from both ends: the patients for the health care insurance AND from the Doctors with the (ever increasing and ridiculous) malpractice premiums. To ice that cake, somehow it is becoming more and more common that the insurance companies get to make the decision about what is "medically necessary" . Yes, it's a business based upon risk, but why refuse anyone. Wouldn't it be just as profitable to adjust premiums based on AMOUNT of risk?
I cannot say I am a big fan of socialized health care either. Not until all Doctors (and health care providers as a whole are all required to adhere to a higher standard to get into, or stay in, the health care system. Most doctors these days are like a M.A.S.H. unit. Diagnose and treat the symptom instead of the problem. "Here take this pill." Fear not, the drug manufacturers are cashing in on that one, also. I live about 5 minutes from Merck and in the past 20 years, I have seen their campus grow from a couple of acres to more than a square mile in size.
It's a shame that we, as Americans, live in one of the most prosperous countries in the world, but yet, cannot seem to take care of our own people (for whatever reason). One would think that as ingenious and resourceful as we pride ourselves to be, that we could figure this one out.
I do not even have the time to rant about how our vets are treated, either. How the very people who have pledged their flesh and blood to keep this country safe and free so that these big companies don't need to worry about socialism, etc, cannot even receive decent care for injuries sustained while in the line of duty just confounds me to no end.
Once the power to decide what is needed for a patient has been wrested from the insurance and drug companies and given back to the folks who have gone to school for years and years to become doctors, perhaps then things will be a bit more fair.
Basic health care coverage in the US can be had for less than $100 a month. Around $200 for a family. This just covers catastrophic expenses like surgeries and emergency visits. Basic office visits should be paid out of pocket. This will encourage the consumer to shop for the best deal promoting competition and bringing costs down.
Of the 40 some million uninsured people in the US the majority CHOOSE not to be covered. These are the people who drive around in a $40k SUV getting 8 mpg with a 60 in plasma hung on the wall complaining about the lack of health care on their $150 a month cell phone. The real point of this discussion is priorities.
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Basic health care coverage in the US can be had for less than $100 a month. Around $200 for a family. This just covers catastrophic expenses like surgeries and emergency visits. Basic office visits should be paid out of pocket. This will encourage the consumer to shop for the best deal promoting competition and bringing costs down.
Of the 40 some million uninsured people in the US the majority CHOOSE not to be covered. These are the people who drive around in a $40k SUV getting 8 mpg with a 60 in plasma hung on the wall complaining about the lack of health care on their $150 a month cell phone. The real point of this discussion is priorities.
Indeed, priorities should be addressed also, but the OP's original question was whether or not we were happy with our health insurance.
As for the price for basic coverage that you quoted, it begs the question of "Where do you live?"
Here is a scan of one of this week's junk faxes to my office (Greater Philadelphia area). Indeed, these prices reflect coverage besides just the "basic", but there are no choices for that listed. On top of that, the next questions would be "Does the local hospital accept this insurance? Does my PCP accept this insurance, and if not, what quality of care will I get from a PCP that DOES accept this insurance? What types of things does the "basic" insurance deem medically necessary? "
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/HealthFax.jpg)
I agree that a competitive market breeds better pricing and, as a small business owner, I can respect that except for when it may have a bearing on the quality of health benefits and care that my family and I receive.
I am certainly not in any rush to have any medical procedures performed by the lowest bidder.
Just for reference, I own a 2006 Jeep Wrangler that gets 15 mpg if I am lucky. I have a 32" "normal" television, and my cell phone bill is, thankfully, mostly paid for by my business. I am not complaining about the "lack" of health insurance but moreover the quality, thereof.
I carry $2,000,000 worth of liability insurance for my business that costs me exponentially less than my health care insurance for my family without even factoring in the co-pay expenditures, which tally up to about $100-$200/month between Dr. visits and prescriptions.
Dental insurance? Well, at least the kids are covered...........
I suspect that even with the questionable priorities that you previously cited, you are possibly being quite liberal with the definition of "choose"
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File a claim on that liability insurance and see what happens to the premiums (you'll probably get canceled).
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File a claim on that liability insurance and see what happens to the premiums (you'll probably get canceled).
That may very well be true, but I do not make the connection of your analogy (if I may be permitted to make the assumption of what you are intending to compare).
If I "choose" to have health care and, for years, dutifully make payment on my premiums without making any major claims, then all is OK......
but
If someone in my family becomes chronically ill, and it cuts into the profit/loss ratio of my insurance provider, it is perfectly fine for them to cancel my contract at will, as it suits them? I fail to see the quality in that. In fact, I would wager on the actual legality of such practice. The Hinkley, CA court cases come to mind.
I think that would be like comparing apples and oranges as far as liability insurance for a business is concerned.
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That may very well be true, but I do not make the connection of your analogy (if I may be permitted to make the assumption of what you are intending to compare).
If I "choose" to have health care and, for years, dutifully make payment on my premiums without making any major claims, then all is OK......
but
If someone in my family becomes chronically ill, and it cuts into the profit/loss ratio of my insurance provider, it is perfectly fine for them to cancel my contract at will, as it suits them? I fail to see the quality in that. In fact, I would wager on the actual legality of such practice. The Hinkley, CA court cases come to mind.
I think that would be like comparing apples and oranges as far as liability insurance for a business is concerned.
I'm just saying that your liability insurance is low because you haven't had a claim filed against you. The problem is with calling health care coverage insurance in the first place. It's not insurance; not if you think it should cover preventive care and non-emergency office visits. Will your home owner's insurance put new windows in your house when the old ones wear out?
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I'm just saying that your liability insurance is low because you haven't filed a claim. The problem is with calling health care coverage insurance in the first place. It's not insurance; not if you think it should cover preventive care and non-emergency office visits. Will your home owner's insurance put new windows in your house when the old ones wear out?
^^^^^
Fails to understand the concept of insurance.
You don't file claims for liability insurance.
Rather than make a lengthy post explaining it all--this dude needs to go down to his local insurer and get educated.
ROX
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^^^^^
Fails to understand the concept of insurance.
You don't file claims for liability insurance.
Rather than make a lengthy post explaining it all--this dude needs to go down to his local insurer and get educated.
ROX
LOL splitting hairs is all you've got? OK have a claim filed against you.
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The United States has the best healthcare in the world.
If you don't like your insurance then get another or get rid of it all together.
There are associated costs for filing insurance claims that are passed to the end user. Most of that paper work is because of lawyers not the insurance company itself.
If you get something done and have no insurance the price is much less than if you were insured.
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Saying that he'll get cancelled or his rates jacked up just because he files a claim simply shows a misunderstanding on how insurance works.
In your post, you mention three different types of insurance in two sentances...Property, Casualty, and Health. All three have different rules, laws, and regulations that are laid down by each state's Department of Insurance. That department is a state bureau in charge of making sure that each company that is granted a certificate of authority to do licenced business in that state serves it's clients in the people's best interest. If not, they lose their certificate of authority and are banned from operating there. Companies cannot jack up rates or cancel people willy-nilly or in a discriminitory way. It all has to be approved by the state.
And then it's easy for you to say "well I did and they hiked my rates"...well...look at your past stubs and how much you paid to begin with when you signed up and what your paying now and note that your major medical more than likely has gone up every year whether you filed a claim or not. I havn't filed a claim in 3 years but my major medical goes up every year. Until someone somewhere can convince people who seek health care and then don't pay their bills (not to mention frivilous malpractice claims) who cheat the system--we all will all keep paying higher premiums.
To answer Von's question:
Money to pay claims is in each companies financial reserves, and is required by each different state's laws to have $X Millions in reserve to pay claims. It has nothing to do with their profit margin unless they are a stock insurer (where the company's partial value is dependant on it's value in the stock market at the time, and pays back money to it's insureds when the stock pays a dividend) or a fraternal insurer (where you have to pay a yearly "club" fee to be insured, but the company is non-profit and able to offer cheaper "member only" premiums) or a mutual company. Just as an example AFLAC has $10 Billion in reserves to pay premiums on their supplimental policies. That's simply money set aside earning interest in the event that it's all needed to pay claims. Same for Blue Cross, although as a major medical, their cash reserves for claims is far larger.
"If someone in my family becomes chronically ill, and it cuts into the profit/loss ratio of my insurance provider, it is perfectly fine for them to cancel my contract at will, as it suits them? I fail to see the quality in that. In fact, I would wager on the actual legality of such practice."
No, they can't. And it won't cut into their profit /loss margin because he're how insurance works...
You pay your premiums to cover you in case you or a family member is sick or injured---you ALSO pay your premiums in case some one else or their family member gets sick or injured that is covered by the same company. And others with the same company are paying their premiums in case they or their family gets sick or injured or you or your family gets sick or injured. All the people with that same company are paying into the same cash reserve pool to spread out the risk over a group of people with that same company.
Most major medical companies DO raise their rates each year for the reasons I stated in my first post...when deadbeats abuse the system to get "free" health care--we all end up paying for it. Most supplimental health companies do not increase their rates and people are locked in to that low rate (even lower if you get it as a group through your place of work) for as long as they pay their premiums and do not break their insuring agreement they signed when they got it. There are some supplimental insurance companies that have not raised rates on their in-force policies for over 50 years.
Unless you fail to pay your premiums or you do something to break the insuring agreement you signed--they can't cancel you. If you have excessive instances of at-fault accidents, injure yourself on purpose, or your entire family comes down with some long term highly expensive to treat disease that starts to gobble up the majority of the cash reserves in your "group" companies have been known to rase rates on people in that "group" to make up for it. The odds of that however, are very small.
While most major medicals won't cover wellness and non-emergency visits, many supplimentals will. Many will even cover chiropractor visits associated with an accident.
What WILL cause your rates to go up (except for the health care deadbeats mentioned before)? Anything that makes him or anyone covered in his policy a greater risk. If Von decides tomorrow to change jobs to skydiving instructor, crop duster, professional bugee jumper, or skyscraper window cleaner, his company will either jack up his rates commensurate with that risk, or give him a 30 day cancellation notice and ask him to go elsewhere.
If this thread serves anything?---hopefully it will serve to prod anyone who reads it to go to the file cabinet and break out all the policies and READ them. Find out what coverages you have, how much they pay per occurance, how much liability coverage you have, how much property coverage you have, and what are the stated terms in it for cancellation. If you don't think you have a contract--you do. An insurance policy is a legally binding contract. It has declarations, an insuring agreement, conditions, and exclusions. Everything in your policy will tell you whay the company is responsible for and what you are responsible for.
If you don't understand the wording, terms, or the what's and wherefores--call up the agency you got it from and schedule an appointment. If they won't take the time--then it's time to go shopping somewhere else that will take care of you personally.
ROX
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The United States has the best healthcare in the world.
If you don't like your insurance then get another or get rid of it all together.
There are associated costs for filing insurance claims that are passed to the end user. Most of that paper work is because of lawyers not the insurance company itself.
If you get something done and have no insurance the price is much less than if you were insured.
You aught to publish that advice and entitle it "How To Go Bankrupt, For Dummies".
ROX
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Health care in America is the best you will find. Try having a long term illness in a country with socialized medicine. The ONLY positive on that is that in some cases, their prescription costs are less.
Oh rly :rolleyes:
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You aught to publish that advice and entitle it "How To Go Bankrupt, For Dummies".
ROX
The only dummy is actually someone who pays for something he doesn't like. There is the whole book.
Think it'll sell for 15 bucks?
I am writing a new book titled "Michael Moore IS a Dummy".
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LOL splitting hairs is all you've got? OK have a claim filed against you.
Business Liability insurance is relatively low in comparison to health insurance because the incidents of claims is low in comparison. Von might have his kid get a broken arm jumping off the swings at the park, his wife may notice a patch of dark skin on her arm from where she suntanned a lot as a kid, Von might cut his foot mowing the lawn (all Cod fobid!) and may file three different sets of claims this year. On the other hand, he might have a sign out front that says "This facility accident free for 2,899 Days", and hasn't needed to use his BL insurance in 8 years. There are many businesses where nobody has ever gotten hurt (banks, libraries, churches, etc.). So that the risk is spread out over tens of thousands of businesses, the rates are very affordable.
While there IS a chance that some dipstick may come into his business--ignore the "Employees Only" sign and venture back somewhere and get hurt and sue Von--thank goodness those instances are rare--and the low premium reflects that. I'm just guessing but Von probably doesn't run an explosives company or cropdusting service (very high risk) and that his business is a low risk for a liability lawsuit in the first place. $2M isn't a great deal in BL.
Let's say that it's cold and snowy and Von shovels and plows all the snow on his business property--lays down salt and sand, and put up signs saying "Caution--Slippery Surface" around his parking lot. Somebody slips and falls and breaks an arm and has to go to the hospital and sues Von. His company has three basic options; A) Pay the claim, B) Dispute the amount of the claim through an arbitrator and settle for that, or C) Take the claimant on in court if they feel that the claimant contributed to their own accident in some way thet made them partially at fault (drunk or impaired), and pay what the court decides.
The company will pay the claim and that will be that. His rates will stay the same. He's no more an at-fault risk than the business next door who the same thing could have happened to them.
Now--let's go crazily out on a limb here and say that while feeling nutty, Von decides to put bananna peels all over his lot and entryway and grease the steps and handrails with motor oil. It was (in this insanely made up case) caught on CCTV and had wittnesses. And someone got hurt. Von would have been found to to have been grossly negligent. His company would still pay the claimants expenses, but would either increase his rates because he'd shown himself to be negligent in the past--or given his 30 day cancellation notice all together.
Things happen. People get hurt. People sue, and insurers pay. That's what it's there for.
To make a blanket statement that just because someone files a claim (sues) against a business liability policy that's the premiums will go up just isn't true.
Again, a trip down to your local agency will really help you, and I mean that in a good way.
ROX
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Oh rly :rolleyes:
Sadly, many "first out" prescriptions are extremely expensive until it expires to allow generics to be manufactured (usually 5 to 10 years). Some medicines can run $35 to $100 a pill. Yes, there are times where Americans will drive to Canada to get their prescriptions filled and save quite a bit of money.
Conversely, many Canadians come to the US to have medical procedures done because they might have to wait weeks or even months to get them done in Canada.
ROX
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The only dummy is actually someone who pays for something he doesn't like.
Good luck with that.
ROX
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Sadly, many "first out" prescriptions are extremely expensive until it expires to allow generics to be manufactured (usually 5 to 10 years). Some medicines can run $35 to $100 a pill. Yes, there are times where Americans will drive to Canada to get their prescriptions filled and save quite a bit of money.
Conversely, many Canadians come to the US to have medical procedures done because they might have to wait weeks or even months to get them done in Canada.
ROX
And what about the countries where they are actually free?
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And what about the countries where they are actually free?
Umm we do pay them in taxes, the sick ones just cash out. It's good anyway, when you're disabled by sickness you're seldom rolling in money at the same time. And insurances last only so long.
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And what about the countries where they are actually free?
And that (socialized medicine) works extremely well for countries will relatively small populations. For a nation of 260+ Million people, it doesn't.
It would be nice if our country provided aid/discounts for the most expensive of meds, but private industries, in conjucntion with drug companies and charitable organizations are working on that.
ROX
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The United States has the best healthcare in the world.
If you don't like your insurance then get another or get rid of it all together.
There are associated costs for filing insurance claims that are passed to the end user. Most of that paper work is because of lawyers not the insurance company itself.
If you get something done and have no insurance the price is much less than if you were insured.
You are series mislead about the health care. U.S. is not even ranked in the top 20 in the world.
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^^^ agreed.
We have the best technology in the world... but we don't have the best health care.
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the problem is their concern is to make money and not to help people, thats the fundemental problem with health insurance.
The purpose of any commercial endeavor is to make money. And you have a problem with that?
Purchasing Insurance in any form is to protect you from loss.
Unfortunately, people in this country have come under the delusion that medical insurance is there to pay for all of your health care needs, from routine exams to lab tests to getting the sniffles as well as falling down the stairs and breaking your keester.
We don't expect our auto insurance to pay for our gasoline, oil changes or tires. We expect it to pay if we have an accident.
If our health insurance was still based on the same philosophy, there would be less whining about it. And it would be much cheaper.
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Actually Rox, I was being a bit facetious. I was trying to see how truly misinformed that the public is.
I worked at the Prudential Eastern home office in Horsham, PA for a while so I actually do know how it works.
As for my Liability coverage, I own a Disc Jockey business, so my risk is nil, at worst. Unless someone trips over one of my cords (which I religiously secure with gaffer's tape), or dies of a heart attack while I'm teaching the 2-step or the Macarena, there is not much that an actuary can get excited about from my presence at an event. That, coupled with my hefty "hold harmless" clause in my contract, keeps me pretty safe.
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The purpose of any commercial endeavor is to make money. And you have a problem with that?
Purchasing Insurance in any form is to protect you from loss.
Unfortunately, people in this country have come under the delusion that medical insurance is there to pay for all of your health care needs, from routine exams to lab tests to getting the sniffles as well as falling down the stairs and breaking your keester.
We don't expect our auto insurance to pay for our gasoline, oil changes or tires. We expect it to pay if we have an accident.
If our health insurance was still based on the same philosophy, there would be less whining about it. And it would be much cheaper.
Two points:
Why do auto-insurance companies seem more reliable at paying out when something goes wrong than health insurance companies? If our health insurance companies actually covered the things they say they will, instead of dropping people when they get sick, there would be far fewer of us calling for their necks.
Having an automobile is not a necessity of life. Medical care is. Capitalist societies do not require that there be a completely level playing field to leverage the full talent of their population and maximize prosperity, but they do require that basic necessities be met for all citizens so that talent and ambition have a chance at success.
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Two points:
Why do auto-insurance companies seem more reliable at paying out when something goes wrong than health insurance companies? If our health insurance companies actually covered the things they say they will, instead of dropping people when they get sick, there would be far fewer of us calling for their necks.
Having an automobile is not a necessity of life. Medical care is. Capitalist societies do not require that there be a completely level playing field to leverage the full talent of their population and maximize prosperity, but they do require that basic necessities be met for all citizens so that talent and ambition have a chance at success.
what he said ^
it shouldn't be a corporation out to make millions when it comes to your health, it should be someone who wants to help you if you're sick.
It's really a moral issue I believe, these companies can afford to provide for someone if they're sick, they have enough money, but they just choose not to, which is just morally disgusting if you ask me, it's cold and heartless.
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Two points:
Why do auto-insurance companies seem more reliable at paying out when something goes wrong than health insurance companies? Not sure why you say health insurance companies are not reliable about paying claims. They certainly are. I have never had a health care claim denied, nor have I known personally anyone who has had a claim denied for anything other than a pre-existing condition. Pre-existing condition exclusions are well known and publicized in advance in any health insurance package you would buy. If our health insurance companies actually covered the things they say they will, instead of dropping people when they get sick, there would be far fewer of us calling for their necks. As long as you did not obtain the policy under fraudulent conditions, any legitamate claim must be paid as per the contract. Most policies are guaranteed renewable unless you stop paying your premiums. Lots of hype, not much fact here.
Having an automobile is not a necessity of life. Medical care is. Not true. I do not need to go to the doctor every time I have the sniffles. I do not need to have someone else pay for me when I do. Capitalist societies do not require that there be a completely level playing field to leverage the full talent of their population and maximize prosperity, but they do require that basic necessities be met for all citizens so that talent and ambition have a chance at success. Capitalism has nothing to do with providing basic necessities to everyone for free. You seem very confused on this point.
what he said ^
it shouldn't be a corporation out to make millions when it comes to your health, it should be someone who wants to help you if you're sick. If there were not millions to be made, there would be no health care system. No one would be a professional doctor if he were not paid to be so.
It's really a moral issue I believe, these companies can afford to provide for someone if they're sick Umm -- yah, because they charge for it :huh, they have enough money, but they just choose not to if they really did not pay what they were contractually obligated to pay, why would anyone purchase the coverage?, which is just morally disgusting if you ask me, it's cold and heartless. Cold and heartless to not provide something to someone who did not pay for it? :huh
The two of you seem by your comments to be the type of people I was talking about. Health care is not a "right" -- it is a service. A service of any kind must be paid for. Period.
You don't like the way health insurance works? Fine -- don't buy it. Unless you are in the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts, AFAIK you are not FORCED to purchase health insurance. So don't. Just then be man enough to pay for whatever health care you think you need out of your own pocket, and don't expect me or the taxpayers to pay for it.
If you are relatively young and healthy, and are lucky enough to remain so, you will probably spend less than what you would on your coverage. Have an accident or serious illness, though, and you will regret it . . .
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" If there were not millions to be made, there would be no health care system. No one would be a professional doctor if he were not paid to be so."
so theres no doctors in basically every single other country in the entire world? Because we are pretty much the only western country without socialized health care, so is that what you're saying all of europe and canada don't have doctors?
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" I believe thats in the declaration of independence, well with no health care theres no life. It's one of our inalienable rights that this country is founded on. I'd be ok if we didn't go to socialized medicine, but the system we have needs to be fixed desperatly.
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so theres no doctors in basically every single other country in the entire world? Because we are pretty much the only western country without socialized health care, so is that what you're saying all of europe and canada don't have doctors?
What? You don't think the doctors in those other countries are getting paid? :rofl
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What? You don't think the doctors in those other countries are getting paid? :rofl
you're saying people in this country are only doctors because they get paid, and since we established health care is a big buisness, the doctors here get paid alot. So I was being sarcastic since doctors don't get paid nearly as much anywhere else in the world.
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Doctors, but moreso pharmaceuticals in general rake in FAR more profit than they should..
Japan's health care system is not perfect, but we could certainly learn a lot from it. Same goes for Germany, Switzerland and others.. They are all a little different but one thing they have in common, that is in stark contrast with ours is, it is quite literally unheard of for someone to have to file bankruptcy due to medical expenses..
and the argument "they live longer because they have more active lifestyles"
they also have lower infant mortality rates than we do, more people WITH insurance, and in general a higher % of the people living in these countries are please with the way their medical system is than in ours..
Doctors there live well, but are not super wealthy. and the government keeps a lid on out of control drug and treatment pricing.. where in the US our policy is "charge what you want, they have insurance or if they dont, let them pay themselves, untill they die"
so in summation:
Them:
longer live expectancy
lower infant mortality rate
more people with insurance.
more people per capita approving of their health care system,
US:
Sky high hospital bills
doctors and pill pushers living in mansions.
yay.
a year ago, I had a torn medial meniscus in my knee, a very common injur among active people, not a hard operation to have, nothing exotic..orthoscopic as a matter of fact, 2 little holes, a little camera, and a little knife/grabber thingamabob, 1.5 hours on the table total. $33,000...... a new car... I have UNBELIEVABLE insurance, and all told went out of a pocket a total of ~$800 but regardless 33 grand is an absurd amount of money for a simple operation, no matter who ends up paying it.
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Doctors, but moreso pharmaceuticals in general rake in FAR more profit than they should..
Japan's health care system is not perfect, but we could certainly learn a lot from it. Same goes for Germany, Switzerland and others.. They are all a little different but one thing they have in common, that is in stark contrast with ours is, it is quite literally unheard of for someone to have to file bankruptcy due to medical expenses..
and the argument "they live longer because they have more active lifestyles"
they also have lower infant mortality rates than we do, more people WITH insurance, and in general a higher % of the people living in these countries are please with the way their medical system is than in ours..
Doctors there live well, but are not super wealthy. and the government keeps a lid on out of control drug and treatment pricing.. where in the US our policy is "charge what you want, they have insurance or if they dont, let them pay themselves, untill they die"
so in summation:
Them:
longer live expectancy
lower infant mortality rate
more people with insurance.
more people per capita approving of their health care system,
US:
Sky high hospital bills
doctors and pill pushers living in mansions.
yay.
a year ago, I had a torn medial meniscus in my knee, a very common injur among active people, not a hard operation to have, nothing exotic..orthoscopic as a matter of fact, 2 little holes, a little camera, and a little knife/grabber thingamabob, 1.5 hours on the table total. $33,000...... a new car... I have UNBELIEVABLE insurance, and all told went out of a pocket a total of ~$800 but regardless 33 grand is an absurd amount of money for a simple operation, no matter who ends up paying it.
And had you not had insurance the bill would have been $55,000.00.
An odd fact is that if you pay cash the bill is much higher than what the insurance companies pay.
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And had you not had insurance the bill would have been $55,000.00.
An odd fact is that if you pay cash the bill is much higher than what the insurance companies pay.
I didn't know that.
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Capitalism has nothing to do with providing basic necessities to everyone for free. You seem very confused on this point.
Even Ayn Rand admitted that a functioning capitalist society taxes its citizens for basic necessities like police and the military. All you are doing is denying that medical care is a basic necessity for life, and then cherry-picking trifles like the sniffles to prove your point. We can have a laissez-faire health system in this country, like she might have envisioned, but that would require doing away with medical insurance all together--everyone pays out of pocket, doctors charge what you can afford, even nothing--is that politically possible? I'm fine with that alternative, but the special interests of mega-billion insurance companies are entrenched.
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Life expectancy anyone?
(http://www.statice.is/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=6194)
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Life expectancy anyone?
(http://www.statice.is/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=6194)
This says nothing of our health care system. It speaks volumes about our bad diet and high stress though - oh, and the fact that Japanese women are way too pampered.
ELEVEN MORE YEARS OF YOKO ONO!! OH NO!!!
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I didn't know that.
The insurance industry sets the rates that it will pay for procedures, they used to pay on a "reasonable and customary" basis, not so much any more.
shamus
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When i watched SICKO, i realized how lucky i am to live in Denmark.
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This says nothing of our health care system. It speaks volumes about our bad diet and high stress though
Diet and "high stress" are essentially health issues, right?
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Diet and "high stress" are essentially health issues, right?
Not really. They cause health issues though.
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Sounds like your saying they are health issues... :uhoh
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This says nothing of our health care system. It speaks volumes about our bad diet and high stress though - oh, and the fact that Japanese women are way too pampered.
ELEVEN MORE YEARS OF YOKO ONO!! OH NO!!!
:rofl
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They are wrong about Hep C. My stepfather got it from a blood transfusion in the '70s before they knew it existed. Anyway, I don't know what sort of treatment he received, but he was cured. They are jerking you around. Contact a lawyer.
Hep C is not curable. It can be controlled with some medications and diet. If is usually not fatal but can have some serious side effects if you do not take care of yourself.
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ah Michael Moore the Liberal Media's workhorse to fill our heads with lies
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the doctors here get paid alot.
Yea, and paying off their student loans, mouth pratice insurance, licences, certifications, ect.