Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Oldman731 on May 15, 2009, 10:34:55 AM
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The "Why Are There So Few People" thread produced (and may continue to produce?) some interesting ideas. I thought perhaps that if we put them in a separate thread they might attract more attention and discussion. So here are the ones I've located thus far:
From Gavagai:
No bomber drones, they warp.
Ack at 1.0 lethality
Enemy icons at 3k
Incorporate ENY and perks to encourage the use of less capable aircraft
AvA arena moved to a server that isn't shared with the main arena
Disabling formations is something we can do. I'd be interested in a discussion of the ack settings. Enemy icons usually are set at 3k, so no change needed there. The staff does not have the ability to implement ENY. We can turn the perks on or off, but we can't change their value. Obviously there's nothing we can do about the server.
from Antivortex:
How about create specific aircraft only available in the AvA, yeah I know thats most likely a dream. Though right now you could limit certain skins to only be available in the AvA or only enable the skins you would actually see in the specific confrontation for that weeks senario.
We can't create new aircraft, of course, but we can limit particular aircraft to particular bases. The mapmakers can limit the skins when they make the maps - some of the FinRus maps do this - and we can encourage people to use authentic skins, but we can't enforce that in any way.
From Wedge1126:
Maybe AvA needs a name change.
This is interesting. We started out as the "Combat Theater." When we were required to change the name, it actually brought in quite a number of people who said they didn't know that Combat Theater was AvA. So changing you name can have an effect. Note: it would be nice if comments on this particular issue stayed serious, instead of moving to a "Private Club" v. "Aristocracy" name fight.
From Dawger:
2-week setup runs, advertised far in advance, and broader plane sets
The weekly setup change has been a feature of AvA since The Beginning, although it has occasionally lapsed due to staff confusion or unavailability. What do people think about longer runs as a policy? Soda is now working very diligently to be able to advertise plans in advance. There will be a consequent loss of flexibility, of course. Thoughts?
As to the broader plane set, I'd like to hear more specific suggestions.
From Humble:
Player self-control
Seems to me that this is what he has been saying all along. I fully agree. Except for staff ability to mute or eject people, though, this is a player issue, not a staff issue. We would love, simply love, to hear thoughts on this.
Keep 'em coming. And please comment on the foregoing suggestions.
- oldman
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These are just my opinions so no one flip a squeak about it.
No bomber drones = no one flying bombers because they would be way to easy to kill.
Ack at 1.0 = more people running to ack when they think they are going to lose a fight.
Enemy icons at 3k = its already like that.
ENY and perks for rare planes = Id rather see those planes limited to just a number of bases.
AvA move to a different server = 100% agree
All of antivortex's ideas cant be done or enforced by staff.
AvA needs a name change = I wouldn't mind going back to 'Combat Theater'
2 week setups = IMO 2 weeks is just way to long. It may just be me but I like the one week setup because anything longer then that gets dull and boring.
Player self control = I really don't get what he is saying. Does he want us not to argue and agree with every idea anyone comes up with. Does he want us to play like if we doing something wrong we are going to get a time out? Or does he want us to control ourselves when we are around sheep? He would have to expand on what he means by self control.
IMO the first thing we really need to do is some how get HTC to move the AvA to a different server on Tuesdays. I for one and I know a few other people that don't even bother to go into the AvA on that day because there is a very good chance you wont have vox.
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i agree with larry on everything except the sheep thing!! :t
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Ack Is there a way to increase soft guns and not auto ack?
Change name back to Combat Theater Funny as simple as that seems, I bet it would bring in some new faces. Or we could call it the "Contingency Operation Arena" :D Sorry, Oldman .... that just slipped :uhoh
Planesets How about featuring certain planes for two week period (or suitable period). This will give folks time to "suit up" while still allowing for the maps to change. Example: Feature the P38 in maps that cover its major contributions throughout the war.
The most popular planes to draw folks I would think could be P38, Jug, Corsair, FW190, Bf109, N1k2, C205, Ki84.........etc. I am not looking forward to a Me262 v Pony matchup but it might be interesting to see the attraction. :uhoh
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From Dawger:
2-week setup runs, advertised far in advance, and broader plane sets
The weekly setup change has been a feature of AvA since The Beginning, although it has occasionally lapsed due to staff confusion or unavailability. What do people think about longer runs as a policy? Soda is now working very diligently to be able to advertise plans in advance. There will be a consequent loss of flexibility, of course. Thoughts?
As to the broader plane set, I'd like to hear more specific suggestions.
OM <<S>> This is Mungadai- mugadead, mugs, I was able to get my original cpid back. Sorry I haven't participated as much in AvA, and when I do get time, I tend to head to MA. I've always supported broader plane set, to be accurate, all the plane set. Vehicle hangers- all the vehicles respective to their country and C-47, maybe throw in a Piper Cub as a Forward Observer, Small Hanger- Planes from 1939-1942, Medium Hanger-Planes from 1943-1944, and Large Hanger- All the Planes
Someone said that Allies would be at a disadvantaged because of Tiger Tanks and Jet Planes, so then why not limit those Crafts to Large Hangers only and set the perks like MA.
Change taking Airfields to taking an Entire town or Cities. Load a town with 5 VH and 10X a current town. Everything in Town has to be down and U need at least 50 troops to take it. Buildings cannot regenerate for at least 24 hrs, but you can resupply to expedite repair immediately.
To Take a City would be a huge undertaking- there should be at least 25 VH 50X a current town, and at least 100 troops.
Map- Make the Map Smaller
Gotta go play Golf
But I would love to participate more
XAKL
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The real issue is and will continue to be player interaction in an arena with limited numbers and an inherently imbalanced plane set (most of the time). This is aggravated by the "total war" concept vs the older fight centric mentality. Instead of "good" game play being nurtured the reality is that it is muzzled by an uncontrollable subset that can and will continue to shape the arena to its own ends. Given the low numbers this "my sandbox, my rules" mentality will continue to shape the arena.
The minimal interest the community at large has for the format and the overall disdain that a large segment of seasoned players has for this faction has created the current status quo.
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Sometimes Humble, we may be saying the same thing but just quite differently. Interaction of the players if I am understanding that you are saying, is related to the smaller number of participants and maybe the mindset of regulars needs to be tuned to nurturing "AvA noobs".
Having said that I will still shoot you down if you are noobish, but make a suggestion on 200 as how to avoid my tactics. :aok This is what I have gotten from many of the AH players that have and still mentor me. But if you come to the AvA to vulch softly acked airfields instead of testing flying skills against a historically matched equal, then you might just be in the "wrong" arena. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask if you (the Ava noob) would like to have a fair fight, but if you refuse then I will definitely point you to the exit sign.
Now, flying wingman or even picking is a little different. Here again, if you are aware of the disadvantage and are willing to participate (as I am most of the time), then you either gain some experience on SA or you get smacked down. The bases are close and hopefully the numbers will soon allow for the odds to even or better switch in your favor. Then maybe it will be the other players turn to raise his SA.
What I have described above is the only Arena mindset or unwritten rules that I am aware of. If I am missing something, I need to be filled in, because honestly I just haven't seen it.
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The real issue is and will continue to be player interaction in an arena with limited numbers and an inherently imbalanced plane set (most of the time). This is aggravated by the "total war" concept vs the older fight centric mentality. Instead of "good" game play being nurtured the reality is that it is muzzled by an uncontrollable subset that can and will continue to shape the arena to its own ends. Given the low numbers this "my sandbox, my rules" mentality will continue to shape the arena.
The minimal interest the community at large has for the format and the overall disdain that a large segment of seasoned players has for this faction has created the current status quo.
I agree with this diagnosis but would have no clue as to a cure. But do agree with OM that this is more a player issue than a staff issue. But the current problem is caused by players "policing" the arena so I don't see how relying on the players, in this day and age, will ever generate a solution.
Just my opinion of course.
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Detune 200, fly as you want to. Bring your friends as well.
On the other points brought up, I agree with OM & Larry, changing those won't help the arena in the long run. When CT became AvA it had hundreds of players for the first nights, after that it settled down to the tens - I remember this well as it was one of my setups running when the name changed from CT to AvA... The first RPS sets had numbers above 100 also, but they soon dwindled too, I guess it is more enjoyable to most to just hang in the MA's.
As there aren't that many players in the arena now (if I've understood correctly, as I don't fly "prime time"), just take your squad there and fly against each other, have fun, that's what the arena is there for - it isn't just anyone's sandbox, it's for everyone to enjoy.
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- Schedule AvA staff in to police the arena during semi-prime and prime-time hours and actually police it - eject disruptive players and those who've appointed themselves to the position of arena-cops. AvA Staff should be making the rules and enforcing them, not the players.
- Post a thread describing the current week's setup in the forum and sticky it so players don't have to hunt for the setup description. As each week's setup is posted, sticky it and unsticky the previous week's post.
- Switch the emphasis in setups from trying to please players or group wants to just trying to create a great game environment based on historical matchups (go back to the 2001-2003 philosophy for setups).
[OM to Humble's reply]
Seems to me that this is what he has been saying all along. I fully agree. Except for staff ability to mute or eject people, though, this is a player issue, not a staff issue. We would love, simply love, to hear thoughts on this.
"Except for staff ability to mute or eject people, though, this is a player issue, not a staff issue" Sorry OM, I strongly disagree. The AvA Staff should be setting the minimum acceptable behaviour in the arena by making use of the authority given to them by HTC. Anything less than that from the Staff is the acceptance of mob rule in the arena.
The AvA started going downhill when it was still called the CT, and it started on that path when the focus switched from providing a great game environment to attempting to please players and player groups. Those charged with actually leading the arena gave up the fight and decided to follow instead. Until you change that, nothing else will change. Tweaking the setups to allow/disallow things individuals like or don't like isn't going to change anything in the arena for the better. AvA Staff need to step up to the plate and actually lead the arena rather than administer it. If you over-step your authority I'm pretty sure HTC will let you know. And, unless HTC tells you you've overstepped, what individual players say about Staff decisions or actions is entirely irelevent.
my 0.02
asw
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an inherently imbalanced plane set (most of the time).
imbalanced planeset?? lets see 109 v p51 ?? or 109 v spit?? how about 110 v p38?? seems to me the only imbalance is if you fly axis.
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I wish Hitech would just take the damn thing out of player's hands completely and run a different ETO followed by a PTO every week period. No debate, no input, no stroking the planeset because somebody doesn't like it, no complaints, just STFU and fly it or go to the Main Arena.
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LOL Shifty :lol
My ole pal. See, that is how I like the conversation sometimes. You know where you stand with Shifty. I was just thinking along the line of "agree to disagree" and then move on.
I do feel that changes that have come about because the popularity of the arena has dwindled and they most certainly are not the cause. But for those who say otherwise, let's just agree to disagree. The areas that we are discussing here are points that can be tweaked for the most part and in my opinion that is what HTC intends to continue doing with the game in general.
Even if I am not in agreement with some ideas, I would be pleased to try them if it meant that I would have somebody, anybody.... to fly against. So ........ +1 Oldman keeping it fresh, watchout some young chicks might start diggin' on you soon. :cool:
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LOL Shifty :lol
My ole pal. See, that is how I like the conversation sometimes. You know where you stand with Shifty. I was just thinking along the line of "agree to disagree" and then move on.
I do feel that changes that have come about because the popularity of the arena has dwindled and they most certainly are not the cause. But for those who say otherwise, let's just agree to disagree. The areas that we are discussing here are points that can be tweaked for the most part and in my opinion that is what HTC intends to continue doing with the game in general.
Even if I am not in agreement with some ideas, I would be pleased to try them if it meant that I would have somebody, anybody.... to fly against. So ........ +1 Oldman keeping it fresh, watchout some young chicks might start diggin' on you soon. :cool:
The whole AVA discussion is a monthly excersise in frustration. Every month the same questions are asked and every month nothing happens. How can it be that Special Events like FSO, Snap Shots, and Scenarios, can have a healthy following with their limited planesets and historical matchups, yet AVA cannot?
One reason is the CMs in special events would not tolerate what's tolerated in the AVA. I agree with ASW if we're going to have an AVA staff they need to lead and enforce not bend not tolerate. Violation of setup rules, or behavior standards... One warning only and you're gone for a week or two. Once back if you do it again you're gone for a couple of months. That goes for anybody and everybody friend, stranger, vet, or newbie. Put the health of the arena over the ego of the player.
Since people are thinking of name changes how about The WWII Arena. You set it up with the same FSO scenario and map and you run it for three weeks at a time. There are 500 plus people participating in FSOs now. I for one would love to have a place to go for the practice of tactics or just to see how my aircraft stacks up against the competetion. I know a few are going to say no it gets boring. These same people are the ones flying in here by themseleves because they've bored the hell out of everyone else over the years with their insistance you have to play their way. You guys should consider this and promote it to see if it flys. Get some of the FSO people in here and give them a place to practice and run strategies. You might end up getting a couple dozen converts if not more.
It's a shame that we have an empty arena where you have historical matchups in a sim based on WWII air combat. There's no excuse for it. This place has been a gorilla cage for way too long. The staff needs to take the bull by the horns or elect staff members that will or else ask HTC to take control.
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The problem is, you can just mute and if necessary eject someone. As there's always someone present in the Special Events during the events, it's easier, but as the AvA is 24/7 and there's not always a staff member online, it gets difficult to get to the right persons.
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The problem is, you can just mute and if necessary eject someone. As there's always someone present in the Special Events during the events, it's easier, but as the AvA is 24/7 and there's not always a staff member online, it gets difficult to get to the right persons.
This is true, and I'm not just talking about behavior related issues or somebody just mouthing off. I'm refering to whatever the setup rules and spirit of the arena as well are broken. Such as guys going in during off hours and porking an entire sides radar or other disruptive behavior. They should be called out and banned as much as possible.
No we don't need a 24 hour police department that would take the fun away too, sometimes people just have a bad night. However if a member is purposely engaging in extreme behavior and a staff member is on he should correct it on the spot with a warning, if that doesn't work send the guy packing to cool his heels for a week or so.
Im still say it's a shame that this arena cannot be more populated. It has way more to do than the usual excuses I've seen such as saying people are not here because they don't get thier favorite plane all the time and everybody knows it.
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The whole AVA discussion is a monthly excersise in frustration. Every month the same questions are asked and every month nothing happens. How can it be that Special Events like FSO, Snap Shots, and Scenarios, can have a healthy following with their limited planesets and historical matchups, yet AVA cannot?
One reason is the CMs in special events would not tolerate what's tolerated in the AVA. I agree with ASW if we're going to have an AVA staff they need to lead and enforce not bend not tolerate. Violation of setup rules, or behavior standards... One warning only and you're gone for a week or two. Once back if you do it again you're gone for a couple of months. That goes for anybody and everybody friend, stranger, vet, or newbie. Put the health of the arena over the ego of the player.
Since people are thinking of name changes how about The WWII Arena. You set it up with the same FSO scenario and map and you run it for three weeks at a time. There are 500 plus people participating in FSOs now. I for one would love to have a place to go for the practice of tactics or just to see how my aircraft stacks up against the competetion. I know a few are going to say no it gets boring. These same people are the ones flying in here by themseleves because they've bored the hell out of everyone else over the years with their insistance you have to play their way. You guys should consider this and promote it to see if it flys. Get some of the FSO people in here and give them a place to practice and run strategies. You might end up getting a couple dozen converts if not more.
Somethings in the works :noid
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Detune 200, fly as you want to. Bring your friends as well.
The strongest draw of the CT and the greatest power it would have over a MA would be the sense of community it could potentially possess. To detune is a ridiculous cure, it is a case of treating the symptom.
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The problem is, you can just mute and if necessary eject someone. As there's always someone present in the Special Events during the events, it's easier, but as the AvA is 24/7 and there's not always a staff member online, it gets difficult to get to the right persons.
Film the transgressions and send them off to the AvA staff. Have them look at it and take action. Maybe even post the offense, and the action taken on the boards to show they are on top of things and it will no longer be tolerated.
I haven't been in AvA in a long time. I used to pop in now and then looking for a fight, but got tired of the "attitudes" I had to put up with. The "gorilla cage" term fits very nicely. Maybe its better now, I don't know, but that is the "stigma" that the AvA has and MUST out grow before you'll see the population return. Proving that the managers are NOT going to let attitudes control the arena and its population might be a big step toward that end.
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I don't necessarily mean a bigger planeset, just one with a wider appeal.
I know some people love FinRus but 98% of the community at large will ignore historical setups like that. Personally, seeing a FinRus setup usually means I don't check on the AvA for a month.
2 weeks in a setup is really a minimum. For guys that fly once a week, that gives them two opportunities at any given setup. Not everyone logs in everyday.
2 weeks for a setup scheduled well in advance allows communication with squads interested in the matchup to arrange to fly in there.
I would love short icons (Actually I'm a fan of no icons and all seeing radar..the fights are pretty intense and visually stunning without icons)
I think Ack should be off because it can't be set to fire at friend and foe alike.
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On the player self control issue.....
I don't think those who are the problem regarding this issue even realize a problem exists.
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I'm trying to address several issues with one reply...
TheBug, I wasn't serious with detuning 200, but as the game isn't as it what it used to be, the community holding the CT/AvA together isn't what it was just before...
Fugitive, you're correct, but the AvA staff still has limited access to sometimes do what needs to be done. Sending the films to the AvA staff does help, at least they have something to send to HTC...
Dawger, well, some people love different setups and if the FinRus used to be the most popular one some time ago, it should be kept in rotation. The icon range is always short in the AvA (3k enemy icons).
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why not have another Battle of Britain with CO's like the time before. That was a lot of fun.
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Again, I'm not saying Fin Rus (or any other setup) should be out of the rotation.
But there seems to be a tendency to use more arcane setups instead of the meat and potatoes setups of WWII. I saw the same thing over in "that other game" for a while.
There should be a lineup and a scheduled rotation.
And it should progress through the war with occasional little side trips.
Here is a very loose example of a two week rotation. Some of these are impossible due to lack of aircraft but I'll put them in anyway.
Flying Tigers (China versus Japan, 1939)
Winter War (Finland versus Soviets, 1939-1940)
BlitzKrieg (May 1940)
Battle of Britain
Western Desert Campaign
Malta
Operation Barbarossa
Operation Crusader
Battle of Rabaul
Early Pacific Carrier Operations (Inclusive of Coral Sea and Midway, Aleutians campaign )
Early European Bomber Raids (to include Operation Millenium)
Desert Fox (war in north Africa, British versus Axis)
Guadalcanal and other early SW Pacific
Operation Torch (US in Morocco and
Operation Citadel (Kursk)
Operation Cartwheel (New Guinea)
Operation Husky (Sicily)
Operations Bellicose,Gomorrah, Crossbow and Hydra
Operation Goodtime (Bougainville)
Operation Shingle (Italy)
Island Hopping Campaign
The Mighty Eighth
Invasion of Normandy
Marianas Turkey Shoot
Operation Bagration
Battle of Tahi-ihantala
Leyte Gulf
Germany's last stand
Okinawa/Home Islands
That's 29 different 2 week setups that allow single battle special events to be held and varied terrains during the two weeks within a particular planeset.
It should be pared down to exactly 26 setups that rotate varied planesets for the different time periods and geographic locations so that it fills exactly one year. Then the schedule can be easily published and special events within the context of the two week setup planned. And I would start in the middle to generate interest early.
That would be the AvA i would like, a continuous and complete WWII covering as much of the war as the planeset and terrains allowed over the course of a year.
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Problem with that is we have so many gaps in non US planesets some of those setups would just end up one fighter vs one fighter for two whole weeks. Anther big problem is maps.
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Flying Tigers (China versus Japan, 1939)
Winter War (Finland versus Soviets, 1939-1940)
BlitzKrieg (May 1940)
Battle of Britain
Western Desert Campaign(No Map I dont believe )
Malta
Operation Barbarossa(No Map I dont believe)
Operation Crusader
Battle of Rabaul
Early Pacific Carrier Operations (Inclusive of Coral Sea and Midway, Aleutians campaign )
Early European Bomber Raids (to include Operation Millenium)
Desert Fox (war in north Africa, British versus Axis)
Guadalcanal and other early SW Pacific
Operation Torch (US in Morocco and
Operation Citadel (Kursk) No map
Operation Cartwheel (New Guinea) I dont think theres a map
Operation Husky (Sicily)
Operations Bellicose,Gomorrah, Crossbow and Hydra
Operation Goodtime (Bougainville)
Operation Shingle (Italy)
Island Hopping Campaign
The Mighty Eighth
Invasion of Normandy
Marianas Turkey Shoot
Operation Bagration
Battle of Tahi-ihantala
Leyte Gulf
Germany's last stand
Okinawa/Home Islands
why not have another Battle of Britain with CO's like the time before. That was a lot of fun.
Something is in the works :noid
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I have to SCREAM NOOOOOOOOOO! to 2 week setups. Just rewind back to the CO wars that Flatiron was talking about. The arena got porked at least twice a week. 2 weeks is TOO LONG! - 2 :mad:
The staff is doing an awesome job of keeping the setups fresh. :rock It is awesome that player input adds a different dimension to the same setups, so even during a single setup, adjustments have been made to accommodate special events which run for an evening or just to tweak the most fun out of what already exists.
As for the battles, Flatiron, if they could run in one or two hour rounds, like the Wednesday and Thursday setups do, and we had dedicated squads to participate, I agree that I would like to see another attempt at the "Chess Game" feel, continuing from week to week, with adjustments made by CO's. What I don't want to see is anything that keeps players from changing sides to even the battle. That should be the main difference between AvA and Special Events' Squad Operations.
Looking at the long list (thanks Dawger) my mouth waters at the thought of all the potential fights. But after a couple of days in my P40 ....... :( enuf said (and I love that plane).
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What I don't want to see is anything that keeps players from changing sides to even the battle. That should be the main difference between AvA and Special Events' Squad Operations.
I concur............ also like to add........ when squads sometimes show up to fly in the AvsA........and hold their squad nites there. They sometimes proceed to take it to the extreme, without any thought if their opponents.........
- come in early before their official squad nite time begins...
- proceed to de-radar & disable troops or ack or supplies for their strategic benefit
- then overwhelmingly attack the other side 3/4/5/6 on 1 giving no regard to good ethics / good arena etiquette
- then proclaim "its our squad night mission" we would not fly like this on regular times BS
and sometimes certian squads in the past have done this on a regular basis not needing a "squad Nite" to masquerade behind.........
the 1 week setups work fantastic........ the AvsA staff might want to consider the thought of adding a select few more individuals to the staff to help police the arena more thoroughly.......to take control of the situation if need be......
balancing sides has always been a key component to this arena.........and unless there is some particular special event taking place, when it is low numbers in this arena there is no need for 1 side ( or squad ) to overwhelm the other......that is what makes people not want to fly in this arena...........is like bullys on the playground
1 last thing.....I have been told by numerous people that the 3 K icon range is what keeps them from playing in the AvsA on a regular basis ........ it really doesnt bother me, but this game is played mainly by older ( above 30/3 yrs old ) players...... alot of them are in their 40's/50's and their reaction times are average at best.....
I fully understand why they do not like the 3K icon range for enemy/opponent........
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Flying Tigers (China versus Japan, 1939)
Winter War (Finland versus Soviets, 1939-1940)
BlitzKrieg (May 1940)
Battle of Britain
Western Desert Campaign
Malta
Operation Barbarossa
Operation Crusader
Battle of Rabaul
Early Pacific Carrier Operations (Inclusive of Coral Sea and Midway, Aleutians campaign )
Early European Bomber Raids (to include Operation Millenium)
Desert Fox (war in north Africa, British versus Axis)
Guadalcanal and other early SW Pacific
Operation Torch (US in Morocco and
Operation Citadel (Kursk)
Operation Cartwheel (New Guinea)
Operation Husky (Sicily)
Operations Bellicose,Gomorrah, Crossbow and Hydra
Operation Goodtime (Bougainville)
Operation Shingle (Italy)
Island Hopping Campaign
The Mighty Eighth
Invasion of Normandy
Marianas Turkey Shoot
Operation Bagration
Battle of Tahi-ihantala
Leyte Gulf
Germany's last stand
Okinawa/Home Islands
The problem with this list (and I'm not saying the IDEA is bad, just the listed rotations) is that many of the "battles" all have the same planesets. So while there might be 5 different things with different names, it all boils down to "P-40B and F4F4 vs A6m2 and/or D3a".
Further, some of them we don't even begin to have the proper planeset for. Operation Barbarossa? We have NO Soviet planes at ALL that were around for this. We have 109F4s where most planes used by the LW were 109F-2s and 109E-7ns or E-7zs. We have no I-16s, I-153s, no LaGG-3s, not a single bloody Soviet plane at the time the LW invaded. Lend-Lease planes only came later, AFTER the initial invasion (where the majority of the Soviet Air Force, thousands upon thousands of obsolete planes, were wiped out).
So, that's just 2 examples of why I think the list is bad.
On top of that, it looks like you've tried to make it chronological. That's a bad mistake in my opinion. While you may have minor planesets, I'm doubting folks want to fly the same planes nonstop for months on end. So you might go from 1942 to 1944, to 1941, back to 1943, then jump to 1945... You spice things up that way.
Just a few thoughts.
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The order of rotation and length of each isn't really the important part.
The important part is a schedule that is published in advance and adhered to.
If you only one week that's fine.
If you want to skip around in the timeline thats fine too.
But a published schedule needs to occur and it needs to be adhered to. People WANT to know what to expect.
Here are a couple ideas for rotation. Come up with 26 or 52 setups. Divide them into three chronological piles, Early, Mid and Late War. Divide each pile into theaters, say three theaters just for an example that is easy to understand. Western Europe, Pacific and Eastern Front (I would have more than three I think)
And then cycle through weekly or bi-weekly, rotating time period and theater. Early Western, Mid Pacific, Late Eastern then Early Pacific, Mid Eastern, Late Western.
Devise a 6 month schedule and stick to it. Have one day special events within the context of the setup currently running.
And, yes Larry, its fairly obvious that any setup would have to be tailored to the planeset and terrains available but I used to do this in a game much more severely limited in both plane set and terrain availability than Aces High. AH looks to have a treasure trove of available toys in comparison.
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The order of rotation and length of each isn't really the important part.
The important part is a schedule that is published in advance and adhered to.
If you only one week that's fine.
If you want to skip around in the timeline thats fine too.
But a published schedule needs to occur and it needs to be adhered to. People WANT to know what to expect.
Here are a couple ideas for rotation. Come up with 26 or 52 setups. Divide them into three chronological piles, Early, Mid and Late War. Divide each pile into theaters, say three theaters just for an example that is easy to understand. Western Europe, Pacific and Eastern Front (I would have more than three I think)
And then cycle through weekly or bi-weekly, rotating time period and theater. Early Western, Mid Pacific, Late Eastern then Early Pacific, Mid Eastern, Late Western.
Devise a 6 month schedule and stick to it. Have one day special events within the context of the setup currently running.
And, yes Larry, its fairly obvious that any setup would have to be tailored to the planeset and terrains available but I used to do this in a game much more severely limited in both plane set and terrain availability than Aces High. AH looks to have a treasure trove of available toys in comparison.
this is much more sensible.and Dawger is correct on the AvsA Staff trying to make it to where they can give advanced notice of what is coming up next..or for the next 2 or 3 weeks......
and like Dawger posted, you can still have your "1 off" days of special held events...... :aok
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i think 1 week of the same map is fine. there are some maps that as soon as i see them i wont fly them at all unless the entire squad is in there.
as for limited planesets, thats what sets the AVA apart from the MA's. otherwise you get every 2weeker, or dweeby waif in there spewing my $14.95 and declaring that everyone else sucks or cheats.
keep the limited planesets, it doesnt have to be an exact planeset, it just needs to be fun. the matched planesets oldman uses, sometimes make for the most interesting battles. flying a nikki against a p38 isnt all that much of a challenge, flying a hurr1 against a 109E on the otherhand is a knife fight at its best!
I'm not the best player around but i like to have fun. Larry and oldman and all the rest of the AVA staff try to make it just that.
our job is to help them make it fun for us and to leave out our personal feelings.
i like the idea of a publish schedule of maps, but i also dont think everything needs to be set in stone. sometimes flexibility is more fun then rigid. a surprise here and there cant hurt either.
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I'm not an omnipresent figure in the AvA, but I do try to play there when I can. The only time I don't enjoy my stay is when the teams are way uneven. We were just getting slaughtered the other day when it was 2v5. Other than that I can't help but have a great time. Many of my best fights have gone down in the AvA.
keep the limited planesets, it doesnt have to be an exact planeset, it just needs to be fun. the matched planesets oldman uses, sometimes make for the most interesting battles. flying a nikki against a p38 isnt all that much of a challenge, flying a hurr1 against a 109E on the otherhand is a knife fight at its best!
I know what you mean! Those poor nikki's just don't stand a chance. :D
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Mans_Plane.jpg)
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lol cactus...I was wondering if someone caught that :lol
Many axis planes have been downed by my P-38! It isn't even a challenge, I totally agree :)
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actually i meant that killing 38's in nikki's isnt much of a challenge :)
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easy there jeager
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He's right. P38s are very easy to kill. Mainly because only noob tards fly them.
:lol
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But manly noob tards :lol
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Girly manly noob tards. :rofl
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Ohhh I've never been soo insulted in my life!
:lol
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Ohhh I've never been soo insulted in my life!
:lol
cactus, getting downed by a bomber is hard for some people to handle ;)
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As far as experience and suggestions go... Make fuel burn 2.0.
Too many times you find folks commenting like "109E vs hurr1! A real knife-edge fight!" -- only if the 109E has 10% fuel onboard. Only if you took off with nothing in the tanks, still have enough to climb to 20k, cruise around for half an hour, and engage an anemy with no fuel weight whatsoever.
Many times (over the years) folks took great pride in the AvA for outflying plane "X" in plane "Y" -- but only because they milk the performance factor with no fuel onboard.
Try the same in a 109E with 75% fuel vs a hurr1 with 75%, and it's not so close a fight, tellyawhut.
I believe the comments about the P-38 may be similar situations. It's a fine plane, but unless it's on fumes, a number of IJN/IJA planes can give it a heart attack in short order.
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actually i meant that killing 38's in nikki's isnt much of a challenge :)
Was the 38 parked?
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noooooooo, i get lucky.......sometimes!! :D
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Make fuel burn 2.0.
What do others think about this?
- oldman
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i like it a 1.0
if its at 1.0 and all planes burn at 1.0 then the fuels states should be pretty even no matter what the flying time. just my opinion.
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2.0 fuel burn...not a terrible idea. I think the average desirable sortie length for most people playing casually outside of special events is going to be about 30 minutes, tops. Within that parameter at a 1.0 fuel burn a range advantage is virtually meaningless.
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Idea.
1. FSO is more popular than ever.
2. AvA is on the surface offers attractions similar to FSO, but is not more popular then ever.
3. Try to isolate whatever factor is causing the difference.
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My (largely irrelevant) opinions:
Fuel burn rate of 2.0: not in favor, unless maps (like BoB) are actually half scale. Want the option to be able to do historical like things.
Name: how about "Historical Arena", HA, since historical matchups is the whole point.
Reasons I don't go to AvA more often:
1) Attitude. Seems I get belittled for anything I do that doesn't lead to my immediate death. (Examples: fly high, extend when outnumbered or outflown, actually enter a fight etc.) AvA is apparently an exclusive club and outsiders are unwelcome.
2) My time in AvA is limited by its very raison d'etre, i.e. limited planesets. There are tons of planes I don't want to fly. I think AvA will always have far fewer people for this natural reason.
3) Chicken and egg. There aren't many people in AvA because when they log on they see there aren't many people in AvA ;) It might help if the logon screen had some kind of tagline for AvA, i.e. "Historical (Battle of Britain) 37/200 47", as an advertisement. Or maybe the logon screen should just lie about the number of people in AvA :) "Historical (Battle of Britain) 199/200 12".
4) I stink. AvA draws the best players. If I fly there... I die often. No matter what anyone says, that isn't much fun. It is especially unpleasant if those good players are also obnoxious and taunting. (Translation: "Momma the mean man hurt me! Momma: Then don't go there.")
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715, as long as you learn, while you get shot down is all that matters. Just like anything in life, if you know you gave all you could, you didn't lose.
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4) I stink. AvA draws the best players. If I fly there... I die often. No matter what anyone says, that isn't much fun. It is especially unpleasant if those good players are also obnoxious and taunting. (Translation: "Momma the mean man hurt me! Momma: Then don't go there.")
This can be avoided by asking those players what they would do or what you did wrong to get yourself killed. I'm betting they will take you under their wing and try to teach you to the best of their ability. Hell Iv even seen that mean 'ol storch do this many times.
Most people don't understand the AvAs history. For what ever reason numbers died off years ago and there was just a hand full of us there trying our hardest to keep it alive so HTC wouldn't just delete it alltogether. During this time those people grew to know how the others liked to fight. Those you can see were our 'unwritten rules'. Just to name a few when we saw someone rolling from a field we didn't just zoom in for the easy kill. We let that person up to make the fight more fair and fun, for both parties. On some occasions we let others go land when they had a pilot wound or were missing big parts. This went on for years. We flew like 'duels' because everyone knows dieing over and over when you don't have a chance to even get speed up isn't fun. Then when people come in and climb to 15k and play like they don't get another plane it ticked some of us off. We thought where do they get off coming in here and flying like that. It was wrong but at the same time they were a little wrong themselves. They came in and flew how they were used to flying in other arenas. They flew how they wanted, which is right, but at the same time they were disrespecting those that built and shaped the arena. If you just come into the arena and start saying 'it my $15' and disrespecting how we play then you will get that same attitude back. That's where this whole 'mean arena' comes from. Like I said we have been the only people in that arena for years. Show us some respect by not doing anything you wouldn't want done to you and I don't see any reason you would be bashed or 'ran' out of the arena.
Over the years Iv said I don't want more people in the arena. That's true and untrue at the same time. I like the AvA because its been my home in AH since around '03. But for the most part its been a place where when I was in a fight I didn't have to worry about that other enemy over head jumping in just to get a kill, or the guy I was fighting running to ack because he didn't want to mess his score up. I know when you get 20+ people in the arena without an objective like a mission or squad night that it just turns into a mini MA. Also when you get more numbers you draw in those 'tards' that get off on ruining others fun by proking dar and ord, or milkrunning bases at 3am so you have to wait for a staff member to reset the arena.
What I'm trying to say is I don't see why we all cant get along. If you don't like getting trash talked then try to see where those people are coming from. Ask before jumping into a 1v1. When you see someone heading home all messed up leave him be and wait for the next guy to up. If you think the guy is going over with the trash talk record it, report his chat, and send it into HTC. If you don't want to take it that far theres always .squelch 'butthole'. Remember fly and fight like you would want to be treated.
Okay I'm gonna go take a nap after that one. :salute
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1) Attitude. Seems I get belittled for anything I do that doesn't lead to my immediate death. (Examples: fly high, extend when outnumbered or outflown, actually enter a fight etc.) AvA is apparently an exclusive club and outsiders are unwelcome.
4) I stink. AvA draws the best players. If I fly there... I die often. No matter what anyone says, that isn't much fun. It is especially unpleasant if those good players are also obnoxious and taunting. (Translation: "Momma the mean man hurt me! Momma: Then don't go there.")
These are the things that would keep me out of AvA. You expect that crap in the main arenas, but in a much much smaller community of players a little courtesy goes a long way. It always astounds me when folks in the under used arenas purposely work to drive new folks away rather then welcome them in and teach them that the game can be fun without being a total tool to everyone on the other side.
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imbalanced planeset?? lets see 109 v p51 ?? or 109 v spit?? how about 110 v p38?? seems to me the only imbalance is if you fly axis.
Haven't visited AvA in a while, but this comment in itself speaks volumes as to part of the problem.
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As far as experience and suggestions go... Make fuel burn 2.0.
Too many times you find folks commenting like "109E vs hurr1! A real knife-edge fight!" -- only if the 109E has 10% fuel onboard. Only if you took off with nothing in the tanks, still have enough to climb to 20k, cruise around for half an hour, and engage an anemy with no fuel weight whatsoever.
Many times (over the years) folks took great pride in the AvA for outflying plane "X" in plane "Y" -- but only because they milk the performance factor with no fuel onboard.
Try the same in a 109E with 75% fuel vs a hurr1 with 75%, and it's not so close a fight, tellyawhut.
I believe the comments about the P-38 may be similar situations. It's a fine plane, but unless it's on fumes, a number of IJN/IJA planes can give it a heart attack in short order.
Which 38 you been flying cause you are incorrect? Fighting Japanese birds is what it's all about for a Headhunter 38 I love fighting N1Ks in particular.
And why you picking on the 109E? My favorite 109. Great fun to tangle with Spit 16s in it in the MA. They don't think it can turn :D As for fighting a Hurri I, I'd take the 109E every time as it can control the fight. Unless the 109E driver gets suckered into a slow turning fight, then he deserves to get shot.
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What do others think about this?
- oldman
Fuel burn should be as close to the fuel burns in reality as possible in any arena remotely concerned with history. That's what I think.
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Fuel burn should be as close to the fuel burns in reality as possible in any arena remotely concerned with history. That's what I think.
Then I think the 1.0 rate is proper. HTC raised it to 2.0 in the MAs quite awhile ago for reasons not connected to historical accuracy.
My thought was that raising it to 2.0 might make it easier for MA people to transition to the AvA, and vice versa.
- oldman
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Dawger, Oldman...
Fuel burn is an interesting subject that belongs in the same realm as historical radar settings. Each of our terrains is scaled so that special events can run in the time allotted because no one wants to devote eight hours to fly from Duxford to their targets and back in a game, for example.
I like the 1.0 fuel burn in the AvA, but to be accurate for an event, you would need to find the scale of the terrain and scale the fuel burn accordingly. Be warned though, some rides with short legs might not get into the long range missions the way they do now.
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The other aspect to remember regarding fuel burn rate is that even if the terrain is half scale the vertical axis is full scale, ie it still takes a lot of fuel to climb out. So a half scale terrain and fuel burn rate of 2.0 is not equal to a full scale terrain with fuel burn rate of 1.0.
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Good point, I neglected that.
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Also you have to remember that back in the war they didn't just roll and fly right to the enemy. They rolled, climbed out, formed up, then flew in the direction of the enemy. By the time they actually got into a fight they weren't flying will all that fuel. In BoB the German fighters had very little time to fight before they had to turn back.
So in a BoB setup its just as historical to up 25-50% and flying right to England, then it is to up 100% and climb to alt and fly around for 30mins then start heading over the channel.
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The other aspect to remember regarding fuel burn rate is that even if the terrain is half scale the vertical axis is full scale, ie it still takes a lot of fuel to climb out. So a half scale terrain and fuel burn rate of 2.0 is not equal to a full scale terrain with fuel burn rate of 1.0.
That has been my objection to higher fuel burn modification factors since 1997. Thanks for posting it :)
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Fuel burn should be as close to the fuel burns in reality as possible in any arena remotely concerned with history. That's what I think.
Historically, enemy fields weren't 15 miles apart from each other... :rolleyes:
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By the time they actually got into a fight they weren't flying will all that fuel. In BoB the German fighters had very little time to fight before they had to turn back.
Only they had to fly and fight with over 50% in those tanks at the TIME of combat. They weren't hovering on 5 gallons left, performing manuvers that make weather balloons blush.
Again, AvA is about historic matchups, but NOT recreating historic events. Never has been. Never will be. Can't compare to the real thing. Have to take into account the EFFECTS such settings have on the overall gameplay, and IMO 1x fuel burn leads to some of the gamiest fighting I've seen. Only thing worse (on my private scale of bad things) would be to up the ammo multiplier.
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I enjoy the challenge of balancing fuel load with the assignment.
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Again, AvA is about historic matchups, but NOT recreating historic events. Never has been. Never will be.
And you would know this how?
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Btw,
Another thing I asked about was if it was possible to have AvA setups saved on the server and which rotate automatically. With the CM tools we have now, this is not possible, but I think it would be fun. A lot of the time AvA setups run too long; a new setup every day would be fantastic.
As for ack lethality, people running to ack is the flip side of seeing enemy aircraft lazily playing in your AAA as you roll down the runway to begin a new sortie. There's only a difference in degree between vulching and expecting someone to fight the moment they pull up their gear when you're up on a perch.
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That is why auto ack should be .25 and maned ack should be 3.0. This stop people from running to ack and make it harder to vulch.
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How would that work? I'm not a very good shot with the 37mm, but when I hit with it in the main arena the enemy fighter goes "poof." Making it more lethal wouldn't seem to change anything.
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Wasnt talking about lethalaty with the maned ack. I was talking about hardness.
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Wasnt talking about lethalaty with the maned ack. I was talking about hardness.
Ok, that makes more sense.
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had ack set to .5 for Okinawa and it seemed to work out ok. There were a few complaints about people running to it (because there's ALOT of ack to run to on that map) but it would take a good number of hits for the ack to do major damage.
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but it would take a good number of hits for the ack to do major damage.
Not all the time. I went into the ack after a milker the other day and first ping gave me a pilot wound.
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Yeah Larry that happened to me once too, but for the most part I thought the ack setting worked out pretty good.
I remember when it was set to 1.0 for an Okinawa setup once...what a mess :confused:
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Yeah Larry that happened to me once too, but for the most part I thought the ack setting worked out pretty good.
I remember when it was set to 1.0 for an Okinawa setup once...what a mess :confused:
Happens to me a lot more than not in there. PW, Oil, Radiator, Gun... Rinse Wash Repeat cycle.