Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: moot on May 17, 2009, 07:15:41 AM
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This is in the same vein as the HO thread. Not a personal attack whatsoever, but a clinical look at the anatomy of a "suspicious" player/move.
First, the context: what happens in these instances? No one ever knows, because the accusers almost always have nothing but their word to support their claims. That's what's called "anecdotal evidence (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/volvofal.html)". The same thing happened in WWII.. "That weird looking enemy plane did something incredible!" But they have nothing but a vague recollection - no precise numbers to make a precise quantitative rather than subjective, qualitative assessment.
I'm going to say the C word here, but much the same way Germany allows you to display the swastika for strictly documentary purposes devoid of political agenda, here I think I'm allowed to illustrate how (if nothing else, for about a dozen clueless people stirred up by a certain player who needed everyone to know he was quitting on ch200 yesterday) this is why it's literally useless and counterproductive to openly talk about cheating.
1) It's nothing but anecdotic hearsay. Player A flawlessly executes an excellent maneuver on Player B, who's a hungover and brand new player (primed to scream wolf), and from that anecdote you've got an amplification of what REALLY happened, everytime the anecdote is passed along. And then you don't even need to be new. You can be a relatively old player and still do it, like the film below shows.
2) If you're serious about dealing with cheating, there's more sense in reporting what you see concretely (film, screenshot), and directly and quietly to HTC than in endlessly mouthing off about how more or less common it is, with no supporting evidence other than "I'm quitting so there's no reason for me not to tell the truth": 2a) Cheating's not common. 2b) "The people have right to know" is poop-stirring nonsense.
Second, the important part: Hard evidence. How little do you have to out-fly someone to trigger some echo of rumors started by one clueless and/or confused player? See for yourself:
Ta152 vs 190A5 (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/film3_mogex_1411.ahf)
So what happens here? The A5 is on the deck (390 TAS, 1kft) flying across the 152's path (360 TAS, 4kft). 152 spots it and dives right to the A5's six (less than 150 yards out), at this point the speeds are 430 and 340 respectively. Ta152 shoots a burst, only 20mm land for no lethal damage, and A5 sharply breaks to the left (A5 @ 330 TAS, 152 @ 400). Ta152 lets the A5 do its evasive to get into a lagging position (saves E while keeping a mostly dominant position - still behind the A5's 3-9 line - that means the A5's rear hemisphere, while letting (forcing) the A5 show its hand) and once it's clear that the A5 isn't feinting, does a hard-rudder turn that's aimed at bringing itself back close on the A5's six while scrubbing speed so that when it gets there, it's slowed enough to avoid overshooting (which the A5 could still cause).
That's all it takes to make someone perceive something fishy. And without film there's no telling what's what. Yes, the Ta152 probably would have been right near the limit of its wingtips if it had made that left turn (to match the A5's evasive) in strictly coordinated flight (http://www.friesian.com/flight.htm). The line of thought the A5 would have best followed wasn't screaming wolf but something like Holmes' axiom: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" -- All the A5 pilot needed to realize was that there's more than one way to make even something as basic as a flat turn, and/or that the 152 wasn't going all that fast.
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<--- puts sticky note on monitor to revisit this thread after 2+ cups of strong coffee. :O
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Is this a thread about gameplay? :noid
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Chlorine in the pool.
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Nice flying Moot.
This is a prime example of hundreds of people who play or played this game that feel the need to accuse, to deflect from their own personal suckage, and will remain a member of the suckage pool because of that defect.
"OMG !!! ... that guy just beat me ... unpossible ... He must be cheating or the flight model is screwed because their is no way that anyone can kill me"
rather than ...
"OMG !!! ... how the heck did he pull that off ? ... let me check the film and/or ask him (politely) how he did it, because I would like to add that to my repertoire so I can maybe use it in the future"
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The sad part of this is "most" people are going to miss that point and instead focus on the "a whine has been recorded" aspect :rolleyes:
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Moot:
AHII allows one to aim one's nose even while rotating with amazing amount of control at insanely low speeds. Judging by your films, you do this alot, and that is probably what most people invoke the C-word for. Something that is built into the modeling and every player can learn to do is by definition NOT cheating.
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m00t,
Looked like the 190A5 misjudged E states and excuted a lazy 90 degree flat turn. In the same scenario reversing his turn would have set you up for an overshoot. Which is perfectly inline with what you said and illustrates proper energy control. Good fight with Messiah near the end, hes a good stick like yourself.
BnZs,
I agree and did you noticed the speeds at which he was aiming? Even in the lower 70s he was able to setup for a shot. It takes a good amount of skill to do that and it seperates the great from the good.
I am still laughing at Skyrock talking about shades.....somethings never change.
<S> Strip
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BnZs,
I agree and did you noticed the speeds at which he was aiming? Even in the lower 70s he was able to setup for a shot. It takes a good amount of skill to do that and it seperates the great from the good.
Yes...one can question the realism of being able to control a machine with a 1G stall speed in the ~100mph IAS range at 70mph IAS at full throttle without accusing a good fellow like Moot of "cheating". Which would technically be a reason to meet at dawn for coffee and rapiers/pistols, if we retained any civilized customs in this society. ;)
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Well, the majority of MA is complete mediocrity in terms of air2air skill. Most people are not used coming up against someone who doesn't know that the throttle doesnt need to be at 100% and doesn't shy away at the slight noise of a stallbuzzer... oh and realizes you can go vertical and not just fly around in cricles/stickstir while trying to run away.
When I started playing I saw some incredible ninja watermelon but instead of moaning about how impossible that was, I tried to replicate it instead..
Unfortunately there are going to be people who take out their insecurities and lack of self belief on others
"I'd never be able to do that so he must be fishy/cheating!!!"
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I was at around 12K in a spitty 9 when I spotted a corsair coming at me.. from high 1oc it didnt go for the HO but was just trying to get past me (had ord for attack town I was defending) I started to turn into him with the goal of passing just behind him to begin the persuit.. as I so so I notice his gear is down.. :huh I think hes trying to force an overshoot so I back off a bit... but he just maintains his shallow dive... So I pour on the juice and begin to catch him.. after about 10 sec I fire a burst at D600 landing a few hits and he starts jinking all over the place, but to no avail, I wait till he settles down and another burst takes his wing off.
then suddenly I see a name pop up and yellow and an angry voice can be heard.. "I hop your really proud of yourself" I type PM him "huh?"
"there is no way you could have caught me.. NO WAY, not in a spit9.. You had to have warped up to catch me... yea, i bet your proud of yourself"
then I PMd him ".... your gear was down"
"oh... oh god it was? oh.. oh man im sorry, never mind then.."
after that he was really nice, and ended up being pretty cool.
but in theme with the topic of the thread, thats a good example of how easy it is to have a "ZOMG HAX!!!" type moment in this game.
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This is a pretty simple one. The 190 set up the 152's attack with his own left turn. The 152 didn't even have to pull that hard because the 190 turned to bring him right on his own six and sweetened the shot. Look at the 152's g-meter and he didn't pull more than 5.5 G in the whole engagement. Had the 190 broke right (or even just reversed his turn) early in the first attack the 152 would have had a much harder time hacking the turn. After the 152's first shots he's actually pretty close to a flight path overshoot, had the 190 simply reversed then he probably could have neutalized the 152 but, again, he continued in a left turn and let the 152 just lag him to the kill shot.
I will point out that there is something in the film that isn't quite right but it isn't about the players or a "cheat". Notice that at the start, the 152 pushed to over -4g. Basically AH under models the pilot effects of negative G and because it's designed that way it's not a cheat. I don't have the G specs but, even if -4g isn't beyond the 152 airframe -G limit NO pilot can realistically do that and maintain control. Physically, a pilot can handle a very short duration -G spike that large, however, he won't stay in his seat doing it. Yes, I know that aerobatic performers do this sort of thing but they have restraint harnesses specifically designed to hold a pilot down in his seat. The far simpler harnesses mass produced for fighters (especially in WWII) typically do a lousy job of keeping the pilot down in his seat since 99.9 percent of the time maneuvers are positive to zero G. When 800 effective pounds of pilot pulls up on the harness the pilot would have first pounded his head against the canopy and been knocked senseless (remember they only wore soft leather helmets) and would not be able to reach the rudder pedals and probably not even the stick. In RL, it's very hard to get a pilot to push to -1g much less -4. Let me add that a restraint harness that will hold your butt in the seat also restrains your ability to turn and check six. Getting pilots to fly with their lap belts as tight as possible has always been a battle because it can be such an impediment and most end up flying with them too loose.
Instead of a negative G push, a quick low-g barrel roll underneith to the right would have still aligned fuselages, kept positive G on the plane, and the outcome would have probably been the same.
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I see that, thanks Mace.
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Moot,
I like it when you defend yourself everyday and post these movies. Good training which I try to emulate. Why does this happen all the time? Is it reputation/an attitude that brings the C word out?
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I'm not sure Brentlo. Perpetuating the rumors when it's an extremely rare occurence, at most, contributes for sure though. They distract players that still have a lot to learn, from the right way to look at the game. Like RumbleB said, all you have to do is look at the film. In that respect, new and old players alike are both on even footing. Everone plays by the same rules, the same physics.
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Moot
Good post. The sort of thing these forums are good for. Watched the film and what I noticed was just some really basic maneuvers nothing to wow about or even scream about. Just some sensible flying all be it in a heavily contested environment. Nice use of lag persuit and rolling scissors.
I attract my share of complaints and if their not to abusive I'll tell them know "how I did it" but the vast majority newbs and vets just jump in with the insults. For those I'll let them learn the hard looooong way and even crank em up a bit......mindless idiots.
But for the idiots here's some tips:-
IL-2 37mm's penetrate a tigers tin lid easily.
My B26's are not bullet proof. You have to get closer than 1,000 yards and have a hit % above 3.5
If your blacking out it doesn't mean I am...read lag persuit.
Depending what flashes first town or field is a dead give away to where you NOE is coming from.
Lastly....Cv's are relatively easy to find.
For anyone else learning the game the key question is this:-
How did he do that
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Everone plays by the same rules, the same physics.
Correct. SOME of these players though, might not understand the extent to which an experienced stick can "push" the physics to a place that might legitimately be considered a bit implausible, BUT, as every player has the same flight model to work with, there is no "cheating". Not understanding this might be what leads them to accusations.
Or they might just be soreheads. :devil
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Nice flying m00t,
It was worth the download just to listen to Skyrock's conspiracy theory.
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BnZ - It's a lot like in racing sims.. When you look at the "alien" hotlaps, it all looks extremely (can't emphasize the word enough) simple. They're extremely smooth. Their lines are as simple as hell (except sharp slow kinks and really technical bits with weird setups where you can afford trashing the car a bit), which kinda makes it look like they're not even in the same car.. But the fact is that they're racing on a very specific line, not one inch further left or right, or earlier or later at the apex. Every little bit all adds up to a big enough difference to eliminate any chance for the other guy to compete if the latter isn't nailing the braking points and exact sideslip and apex, or isn't timing his evasives or scissor rhythm or taking care to waste as little energy as possible.
That's when you're competing.. When you can't read the opponent's energy, can't recognize sandbagging, don't use the throttle, don't know that flying uncoordinated is enough to cut the few MPH advantage your plane has over the bandit you're trying to outrun.. There's just no contest against someone who's biggest trouble is nailing the last 5% of his plane's envelope.For anyone else learning the game the key question is this:-
How did he do that
Yep.
Nice flying m00t,
It was worth the download just to listen to Skyrock's conspiracy theory.
:lol Who knows.. He could be right. I don't think he loses sleep over it in any case. There's some squad vox I had to edit out for profanity.
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The problem is that it's very hard to prove, but like it or not there are people who hack. A simple search for "Aces High 2" Hack on Google will prove that beyond much doubt. Yes, people tend to whine and make false accusations, but yes, as in any online game there are people who actually do cheat. This will never change.
EDIT: But whining on 200 is pointless and lame
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And perpetuating the rumors does nothing to help. But just to run with your point and see where it leads... Do you honestly think HTC hasn't looked at everything you can find on Google? Having it in the open like that is like antibiotics for HTC. And.. From what I heard, your ISP drops you when you cheat. Play with fire...
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Fwiw, Moot doesnt, he's a damn good stick.
I always look out for the better sticks (not difficult to find a better stick than me to be honest), and go to fight them 1 v 1.
I might get my backside tanned regularly, but I learn each and every fight (even if its only how not to fly against them)
Wurzel
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This is one reason as to why I love being a poorly skilled pilot with a bit of sense. Whenever I get shot down I don't scream bloody murder, I just chalk it up to being out flown yet again.
Nice post moot. :aok
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The problem is that it's very hard to prove, but like it or not there are people who hack. A simple search for "Aces High 2" Hack on Google will prove that beyond much doubt. Yes, people tend to whine and make false accusations, but yes, as in any online game there are people who actually do cheat. This will never change.
EDIT: But whining on 200 is pointless and lame
Uh, typing in aces high 2 in google.. lets see, oh yea you can find some hacks from 3 years ago that worked in the head 2 head arena. good luck with that.
As for the film, looks like a well standard kill on the 190 which makes the whine all that more hilarious. If anything he was haxing the 109 cause 152s are only meant to fly at 25k alt and make long lazy passes at people.
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I will point out that there is something in the film that isn't quite right but it isn't about the players or a "cheat". Notice that at the start, the 152 pushed to over -4g. Basically AH under models the pilot effects of negative G and because it's designed that way it's not a cheat. I don't have the G specs but, even if -4g isn't beyond the 152 airframe -G limit NO pilot can realistically do that and maintain control. Physically, a pilot can handle a very short duration -G spike that large, however, he won't stay in his seat doing it. . When 800 effective pounds of pilot pulls up on the harness the pilot would have first pounded his head against the canopy and been knocked senseless (remember they only wore soft leather helmets) and would not be able to reach the rudder pedals and probably not even the stick.
Yup, I love the game but have cried about the negative G "exploit" for years.
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Moot:
Try this. Take a K-4. Start the engine. Slam the throttle instantly into full WEP. Relatively huge engine in a relatively small airframe with a big, single prop. Do you ground-loop, or does the prop end up chewing asphalt from doing this? No. Without even using full rudder input one can easily keep it tracking straight down the runway. I'm thinking that this might effect what is possible in low airspeed/high power situations in combat as well, and might surprise some people. Albeit, that is clearly not the case with this particular film, and your detractor is clearly being a sorehead about it. :D
BnZ - It's a lot like in racing sims.. When you look at the "alien" hotlaps, it all looks extremely (can't emphasize the word enough) simple. They're extremely smooth. Their lines are as simple as hell (except sharp slow kinks and really technical bits with weird setups where you can afford trashing the car a bit), which kinda makes it look like they're not even in the same car.. But the fact is that they're racing on a very specific line, not one inch further left or right, or earlier or later at the apex. Every little bit all adds up to a big enough difference to eliminate any chance for the other guy to compete if the latter isn't nailing the braking points and exact sideslip and apex, or isn't timing his evasives or scissor rhythm or taking care to waste as little energy as possible.
That's when you're competing.. When you can't read the opponent's energy, can't recognize sandbagging, don't use the throttle, don't know that flying uncoordinated is enough to cut the few MPH advantage your plane has over the bandit you're trying to outrun.. There's just no contest against someone who's biggest trouble is nailing the last 5% of his plane's envelope.Yep.
:lol Who knows.. He could be right. I don't think he loses sleep over it in any case. There's some squad vox I had to edit out for profanity.
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And perpetuating the rumors does nothing to help. But just to run with your point and see where it leads... Do you honestly think HTC hasn't looked at everything you can find on Google? Having it in the open like that is like antibiotics for HTC. And.. From what I heard, your ISP drops you when you cheat. Play with fire...
It's not perpetuating a rumor when it has clearly occurred. Why protect those who may try by perpetuating the myth that it hasn't been done? See no evil, hear no evil and all that. Of course HTC looks at it (I hope), but in the history of gaming nothing has ever been hack proof, especially client-side intensive games like this one. Why pretend it's non-issue?
What ISP drops people for cheating? That would be fantastic but I can't see a large soulless ISP caring one way or the other.
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Wow.
Really well written, long post over nothing.
I think the guy was frustrated over getting killed. Nothing else.
Take it as a compliment and move along.
No C-word involved or accused.
Much ado about nothing.
wrongway
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Nice one m00t. Wiffed on my shot and payed for it.
Here is the film from my perspective (http://www.mediafire.com/?cdttezggf0k)
CAUTION: Above film contains profanity (mogex) on vox range.
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Oh...It's that guy. Have had problems with him before as well. Pm'ed me for about a 1/2 hour with insults and cries of cheating. About a 1/2 hour later he was back PM'ing me some more smack talk outta know where. The guys a tool
He made me chase his 190 all over the place and the moment I got a solution on him he bailed. Said he was not going to give me easy kill :lol
Every time I see him on he's bch'in about someone.
I have a film somewhere of moot killing me nose up going about 60 mph and hitting me w a tater. Got plenty of film on moot trying to figure out his moves. he uses those flaps well in the 152 I can tell ya.
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Nice one m00t. Wiffed on my shot and payed for it.
Here is the film from my perspective (http://www.mediafire.com/?cdttezggf0k)
CAUTION: Above film contains profanity (mogex) on vox range.
LOL, he actually sounds like he's all red faced and crying. Don't like him
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LOL, he actually sounds like he's all red faced and crying. Don't like him
lol,I have to watch this. :lol
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Regarding those that think this is much to do about nothing...well that probably should be true but unfortunately it isn't.
Maybe in this case it's just a bit of frustration showing through (probably) or maybe the 190 actually believed there was some cheat involved. In either case, there is something to be learned. I suppose there is the possibility that someone can hack the system just as can be done on most any other system but if this is really a big problem why is it that nobody can ever post a verifiable example? I understand HTC's desire not to publicise any problems like this but I'd still think those of us that have been around for a while would have seen a film or two of it and there haven't been any that I've seen.
But, to get back to why this post isn't a bad idea. Regardless of whether it's just frustration or actual belief in cheating, that person and others who have been in similar situations can learn from it and get better. They see how it was done, that it's not magic or a cheat, and that they can learn to do it themselves or at least better defend against it. This is just like another recent post regarding a 180 degree pass with the bandit doing an "impossible" turn to plant himself on the other guys six. It can be done and newer guys need to recognize it for what it is.
At the same time, a bit of understanding and less personalization is called for. I wish that the film viewer would allow you to remove names so that a film can be posted strictly for academic purposes without devolving into personal attacks and derogatory remarks.
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Nice one m00t. Wiffed on my shot and payed for it.
Here is the film from my perspective (http://www.mediafire.com/?cdttezggf0k)
CAUTION: Above film contains profanity (mogex) on vox range.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Meh, he's just frustrated. No accusations were thrown. Funny anyhow...better to just vent into a dead mic than to hit F12...
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Yeah your right mace it does get a little personal when trying to air differences. That was exactly what I was thinking Frosty don't hit the button when your temper get the best of ya!
Thanks for posting your perspective of the real fight Messiah it truely is a game of inches.
Love that film of yours that you posted several weeks ago "DA lake fun" it proved that with practice you can actually hit with a K4 regularly. This film proves that you do indeed
miss sometimes >
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Wow.
Really well written, long post over nothing.
I think the guy was frustrated over getting killed. Nothing else.
Take it as a compliment and move along.
No C-word involved or accused.
Much ado about nothing.
wrongway
Pray tell what else 'BS on your 152' and 'your wings should have snapped' is implying? And are you saying what the OP is supposedly addressing in this case (crying cheat), never happens?
It's not perpetuating a rumor when it has clearly occurred. Why protect those who may try by perpetuating the myth that it hasn't been done? See no evil, hear no evil and all that. Of course HTC looks at it (I hope), but in the history of gaming nothing has ever been hack proof, especially client-side intensive games like this one. Why pretend it's non-issue?
What ISP drops people for cheating? That would be fantastic but I can't see a large soulless ISP caring one way or the other.
You don't know what you're talking about. Perpetuating an outdated rumour is stupid. It's not a case of see/hear/speak no evil, nor "the people have the right to know", nor is anyone pretending it's a non-issue. HTC takes cheating seriously.
Regarding those that think this is much to do about nothing...well that probably should be true but unfortunately it isn't.
Maybe in this case it's just a bit of frustration showing through (probably)
It's been over a couple dozen times that someone's accused me explicitely.
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From a doorknob kinda pilot (me that is), moot just lagged his roll a bit, slid it back into position and killed the 109 (even I can manage that at times)
Cant see what the drama is about personally. Moot is way too good in that 152 to need to try anything untoward.
Wurzel
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It's been over a couple dozen times that someone's accused me explicitely.
Moot, please go and re-read my post. I must not have been clear but I wasn't talking about you complaining. I was saying that the frustration and accusations were from the 190, not you. If I can clairify, I'm saying that in a perfect world, posts like this wouldn't be necessarily but I think they serve a useful function here. The one thing I would change would be to be able to easily remove everyone's name from the equation so it can be a learning opportunity vice devolve into personal rants. I've also been accused of "cheating" and have asked the accuser to post the film and I could explain what I did for his, or other's edification. I've yet to have anyone actually post one of me "cheating".
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Pray tell what else 'BS on your 152' and 'your wings should have snapped' is implying? And are you saying what the OP is supposedly addressing in this case (crying cheat), never happens?
Frustration at getting shot down. It couldn't possibly have been something he did wrong.
What he is really saying is, "there's no way I or any other average player could have pulled that off."
Take it as a compliment and move along.
Personally, I enjoy watching your work, for whatever reason you post it.
wrongway
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Yeah Mace, that's what I meant.. I wouldn't have made this post a couple of years ago. But given how often it comes up (admittedly it's a low threshold), I thought it would be worth it.
I've yet to have anyone actually post one of me "cheating".
Exactly :)
wrgway, that's not what it looks like.. I'll concede I'm not in his head to know his thoughts, but his comments are exactly like what I've heard from other players that went on to say it explicitely when asked.
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I would agree with you Moot and I think you hit it on target :salute
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2) If you're serious about dealing with cheating, there's more sense in reporting what you see concretely (film, screenshot), and directly and quietly to HTC than in endlessly mouthing off about how more or less common it is, with no supporting evidence other than "I'm quitting so there's no reason for me not to tell the truth":
The one and only time I have ever been accused of hacking is by you, moot. You were aggressive to the point of causing me to call Hitech to check on the possible repercussions. They assured me that there was an occasional bug where it appeared that the wing was missing and the plane was still able to fly. You, moot, were shooting me down in my 110G and I was oblivious to the damage I was taking.
A bit of a tangent on the topic, but people make irrational accusations when frustrated or whatever. I wasn't cheating, but you were threatening me directly but not quietly in no uncertain terms with hitech discipline.
For the record, the only sure cheat I have ever seen was a JU-87 with infinite ord carpet bombing a base.
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Well, that is certainly ironic, but you have to take it in context. It was probably around time where players exploited that "no name" bug. It sounds like you just ignored people telling you to relog to fix it. Which is what a couple of players were doing, on purpose.
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<--- puts sticky note on monitor to revisit this thread after 2+ cups of strong coffee. :O
just buy the cliff notes. :rofl
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Wow, what a baby.
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You don't know what you're talking about. Perpetuating an outdated rumour is stupid. It's not a case of see/hear/speak no evil, nor "the people have the right to know", nor is anyone pretending it's a non-issue. HTC takes cheating seriously.
So you are not pretending that cheating is a non-issue, but cheating is also just a rumor.
OK buddy. Rock on. :rock
Don't bring up the topic at all if you can't have a civil discussion about it.
And if someone accuses you of cheating, but you know you are not cheating, and HTC knows you are not cheating, then just let it go.
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Could you rephrase that?
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Could you rephrase that?
Cheating you, are rumor pretending that cheating is a issue-non but so is also just a not.
:rock
On OK. Rock buddy.
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Cheating you, are rumor pretending that cheating is a issue-non but so is also just a not.
:rock
On OK. Rock buddy.
Could you rephrase that?
Just more time please I have no idea what your trying to say.
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Frosty So you admit your point's just gibberish?
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Me thinks frosty is a young one.
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Frosty So you admit your point's just gibberish?
Absolutely not. You said two things:
"Perpetuating an outdated rumour is stupid."
Then...
"nor is anyone pretending it's a non-issue. HTC takes cheating seriously."
You seem to be very much pretending it's a non-issue.
As for the rest of my post, I was referring to your creating a thread about being accused of cheating (when in reality you were not), then getting all hostile-like when anyone dares...DARES...to disagree with you.
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Just more time please I have no idea what your trying to say.
The quick recap ..... 99.9% of accusations are unfounded but perpetuate the myth. 0.01% of accusations are true.
Sooo.... 0.01% is not a myth and does occur. Sooo.....99.9% are fueling the reality of 0.01% which means there's more smoke than there is fire.
It's a bit like a laymen telling a surgeon that a guy has bowl cancer when infact he has a pimple on his arse.
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The quick recap ..... 99.9% of accusations are unfounded but perpetuate the myth. 0.01% of accusations are true.
Sooo.... 0.01% is not a myth and does occur. Sooo.....99.9% are fueling the reality of 0.01% which means there's more smoke than there is fire.
It's a bit like a laymen telling a surgeon that a guy has bowl cancer when infact he has a pimple on his arse.
Hey, fair enough. The only people in a position to possibly know the %'s are HTC.
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Lynx, speaking of which, I do have a pimple on me bootox as it happens.
:D ;)
Wurzel
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You seem to be very much pretending it's a non-issue.
Yeah, "SEEM" being the key word there. You don't know what you're talking about. There's no contradiction in saying that it's stupid to perpetuate the rumor that the junk you find on google isn't outdated, especially when even if it weren't outdated, HTC would deal with it as quickly as they have in the past. Which amounts to a small chance of running into that player, out of all the spots on a map, out of all the arenas, and out of all the times you might play, in the short time the player will have before being ejected and banned. If said player's stupid enough to do it in prime time, he'll get kicked out extra quick. So talking about it in the open like it were something common is stupid. Players reading ch200 will take it for granted as accurate, which it's not. What a stupid thing to do.
Cheating is a rumor because guys like you and the guy that made a big deal out of it on ch200 the other day don't have squat to back you up. Where's your evidence that it's happening right now? You don't have any. Which leads to the next point: it's stupid to keep bringing up the topic in open discussion like ch200 because of the above points. That it's all unsubstantiated or outdated, and in the rare times it's neither the best thing to do is to report it directly to HTC. A lot of us have done it in the few times it happened and trust me, it gets taken care of real quick.
Next, the point of the thread was to show how the most ordinary flying can get people screaming foul play. What, exactly, is that guy implying when he says the wings should have snapped? Answer this question.
Even if he weren't, this case is identical to the dozen other times it's happened, where the player explicitely said I was cheating, or that the plane I was flying "couldn't do that". The point is to illustrate this as part of a greater effort to sensibilize players to the full range of planes' envelope. Instead of e.g. being oblivious to using the vertical. The thread has nothing to do with this player or me in particular. I'm not the only one who's been accused of cheating when I was just flying around doing nothing extraordinary.
As far as "all hostile like". Are you 15 years old or so?
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IMO, these accusations are almost entirely the result of poor SA.
The accusations are made because they think they know how fast you were, how many G's you were pulling, what maneuver you flew, what path you flew, when you should have blacked out, how much slower your plane is/was than theirs is/was, yada, yada, yada...
The problem is that their SA leads them to believe certain things that are false, because their SA is lacking.
"How could your F4U catch my pony?!??! The pony is faster on the deck..." Could it be because you flew what you thought were subtle little jinks, but were in reality mild scissors, allowing me to close on you from 2K out by simply flying straight?
"No way that F4U should float like that with full flaps at 50mph!" Do you realize my speed was never below 150? And that I didn't drop more than 2 notches of flaps? Just because you were slow and near stalling doesn't mean I was too...
"What kind of a magic F4U BS reversal was that??!?!" Reversal? I just rolled... You flew in front of me and turned away, putting me on your six. I didn't do anything but squeeze the trigger...
"How did you outturn my A6M?!?!?" Because I was at 250 mph and able to turn well. You were at 400mph, and couldn't...
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Yeah, "SEEM" being the key word there. You don't,,,etc.
EDIT:<SNIP> Hell with it. Sorry if I p*ssed you off.
FWIW, I did point out that complaining over the public channel is stupid.
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You didn't piss me off. You did derail the thread though.
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My apologies.
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They assured me that there was an occasional bug where it appeared that the wing was missing and the plane was still able to fly. You, moot, were shooting me down in my 110G and I was oblivious to the damage I was taking.
I got that one once. The only reason I know it my squaddies told me I was flying with one wing, from their perspective.....until the damage packets caught up with me. Then I heard a hellacious racket and blew up. I have a good DSL connection too.
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Blowing up is overrated... just like landing :P
:rofl
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Blowing up is overrated... just like landing :P
:rofl
Great balls of fire!
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Lynx, speaking of which, I do have a pimple on me bootox as it happens.
:D ;)
Wurzel
I'm afraid its terminal cancer you have 24 hrs to live. Be sure to give Aunt Sally one before you go and remember me in your will.
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I get accused of cheating an awful lot. Although its bogus and totally unfunded I'm getting a tad :noid
about it. I'm getting to think that maybe 1 or 2 guys are perpetually spreading the rumour amongst the bish. They seem most preoccupied by my game play :lol Talk about sour grapes..... its being spread along the bish grape vine. :rolleyes:
Anyways most of me accusers are newbies. They have little concept of this game and speculating I'd be surprised if any one of them had any qualification or experience as to what a hack is. What on earth makes these people experts on cheating I just don't have a clue. What I do know is that their ego is left :cry :cry
This particular one is doing the circuit in Bishville right now. Apparently I'm bullet proof. I pork bomb in B26's. Most deadly bomber gun wise as most of you will agree. 3 different guys attack me dead astern at different times within the space of minutes. They crawl right up to my tail gunner and go bang. All of them started shoot from 1k out. Spraying and preying for all their worth. Although I did take hits (1 engine smoked) I was very much alive. I get Pm'ed about being bullet proof. Turns out the accuser had a hit% of less than 3.5 and he expects to hit something 1000 to 800 out ......yer right. I'd love to meet the fairs at the bottom of his garden. :aok BTW I was eventually shot down by a guy who knew what he was doing. None the less .... from this little drama spawns today's Bish Lynx bullet proof theory :huh The sad part is other Bish are believing this complete load of bollox. Blind leading the blind.
I think the best one is where I was supposed to have 2 different accounts and I got range on the enemy cruiser only because their gunner called out the range on my cruiser.....if that makes sense. How did they know it was me ? Was I on the same part of the map let alone even on a cruiser?
Elvis is alive and well :noid
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LMFAO
"Fricking 152 man. Took me down this low on the ground. He shouldn't be able to keep up with me but he can. That's bull poop." - Mogex
That shows you right there that people who have no clue about things are the ones most likely to cry foul. When the fact of the matter is the Ta152 is faster then the A5 at all alts and can keep up with it in a turn.
Its just like the people in the midwar who cry cheat when I kill them in a 110 or IL2. They think because they cant do the things others do in a plane that that person must be cheating.
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I will point out that there is something in the film that isn't quite right but it isn't about the players or a "cheat". Notice that at the start, the 152 pushed to over -4g. Basically AH under models the pilot effects of negative G and because it's designed that way it's not a cheat. I don't have the G specs but, even if -4g isn't beyond the 152 airframe -G limit NO pilot can realistically do that and maintain control. Physically, a pilot can handle a very short duration -G spike that large, however, he won't stay in his seat doing it. Yes, I know that aerobatic performers do this sort of thing but they have restraint harnesses specifically designed to hold a pilot down in his seat. The far simpler harnesses mass produced for fighters (especially in WWII) typically do a lousy job of keeping the pilot down in his seat...
Modern aerobatic X-type four-point harness:
(http://lh4.google.com/TolipM/R2lC6Acm24I/AAAAAAAABiM/wFoYcWCk2wM/s400/vlcsnap-329143.jpg)
British WWII X-type four-point harness:
(http://www.naked-army.com/img/products/raaf/1.jpg)
Luftwaffe X-type four-point harness:
(http://www.monkeydepot.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BD0878-2.jpg)
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Hard negative-G dives were also the Luftwaffe's preferred way to escape from a Spitfire during the Battle of Britain since the Spitfire's engine would cut out under negative-G load (fixed after the battle).
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I get accused of cheating an awful lot. Although its bogus and totally unfunded I'm getting a tad :noid
about it. I'm getting to think that maybe 1 or 2 guys are perpetually spreading the rumour amongst the bish. They seem most preoccupied by my game play :lol Talk about sour grapes..... its being spread along the bish grape vine. :rolleyes:
Anyways most of me accusers are newbies. They have little concept of this game and speculating I'd be surprised if any one of them had any qualification or experience as to what a hack is. What on earth makes these people experts on cheating I just don't have a clue. What I do know is that their ego is left :cry :cry
This particular one is doing the circuit in Bishville right now. Apparently I'm bullet proof. I pork bomb in B26's. Most deadly bomber gun wise as most of you will agree. 3 different guys attack me dead astern at different times within the space of minutes. They crawl right up to my tail gunner and go bang. All of them started shoot from 1k out. Spraying and preying for all their worth. Although I did take hits (1 engine smoked) I was very much alive. I get Pm'ed about being bullet proof. Turns out the accuser had a hit% of less than 3.5 and he expects to hit something 1000 to 800 out ......yer right. I'd love to meet the fairs at the bottom of his garden. :aok BTW I was eventually shot down by a guy who knew what he was doing. None the less .... from this little drama spawns today's Bish Lynx bullet proof theory :huh The sad part is other Bish are believing this complete load of bollox. Blind leading the blind.
I think the best one is where I was supposed to have 2 different accounts and I got range on the enemy cruiser only because their gunner called out the range on my cruiser.....if that makes sense. How did they know it was me ? Was I on the same part of the map let alone even on a cruiser?
Elvis is alive and well :noid
Well that's funny Lynx as I've been Bish since 2002 and I've never heard that one about you. I have heard that you sir are a smart-buttocks but never heard that you were a cheater. Now you may be referring to conversations on CH 200 that I am not privy to as I don't tune it as I don't need to hear all the griefing. Why let it bother you and why is it that it's always the Bish that are the scum of the game?
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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Well that's funny Lynx as I've been Bish since 2002 and I've never heard that one about you. I have heard that you sir are a smart-buttocks but never heard that you were a cheater. Now you may be referring to conversations on CH 200 that I am not privy to as I don't tune it as I don't need to hear all the griefing. Why let it bother you and why is it that it's always the Bish that are the scum of the game?
As it goes I spend most my time fighting the bish. There is a selected few most preoccupied with my where abouts. Some for legitmate strategic reasons and some just freaked :lol. Often see on 200 some bish guy talking to who he thinks is me. Either being chased or chasing. That cracks me up :lol I just tell em "might be".
200 is where most allegations arise but I do get a lot of PM's. The 2 examples gave were one from Bish...bullet proof theory....speak with bear69 and painless with his uber connection :lol The other example was from a knight chalenge....missing the D from the end of his name if you ask me :rolleyes:
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Hard negative-G dives were also the Luftwaffe's preferred way to escape from a Spitfire during the Battle of Britain since the Spitfire's engine would cut out under negative-G load (fixed after the battle).
But probably not much beyond -1.
And we all know about Hartmann's or Killer Caldwell's escape methods, that probably wasn't as harsh as some of the Neg G maneuvers we see in AHII either
I've been saying we need a more punishing red-out model in the game for quite awhile.
That first pilot whose picture you posted though DH, she's welcome in my cockpit anytime. :aok
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Negative G tolerance for a typical fit person is -2 to -3 G's sustained. Display pilots typically endure -5 to -7 G's for several seconds.
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Fishy things...
I just logged on for a few quick sorties, and what did I see? A nice "discussion" on Bish countrychannel. Four or five players agreeing with each other that all those "hacks" are BS, how AH is flooded with cheaters, that there are sites you can buy this stuff like "make your plane weigh only 500lbs", so you can pull off "impossible" maneuvers.
I just wonder why I never see those fishy things despite playing 120 hours per month...
Needles to say I didn't recognize the playernames, and when looking up their stats there was no surprise in what I found either. ;)
Of course it's almost impossible to convince those guys of anything else. Cluelessness & paranoia is hard to overcome.
Remember Arther C. Clarke's Third Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Maybe a AH version could be: "Any display of sufficient advanced ACM is indistinguishable from a hack"
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Or even "Any display of sufficient advanced ACM execution is indistinguishable from a hack"
And it's any responsible player's ... duty, to .report people chattering about cheating in the open.
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:noid
Atari Lynx
:noid
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That first pilot whose picture you posted though DH, she's welcome in my cockpit anytime. :aok
And I bet she'd out fly you in that cockpit too! ;)
Here Svetlana is flying her Sukhoi with Peter. Two of the best aerobatics pilots in the world: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYVpF2MGTf4
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Moot, the reality is you and the mupptards are cheaters, you have hidden away in the great "hall of muppets" the infamous NECRONOMICON "inked in blood" which is the reason for your success and GAMINESS :D You better return the book before Bruce Cambell comes for it :aok
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Sometimes I don't know if I should laugh, start to explain or simply despair...
5 mins ago a player told us on channel 2: "How does a Spit can make 420? That's bull, I rip my wings off! This game is more fishy than a *censored*..."
:lol :rolleyes:
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Was it a mistake to do this thread?
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I think not.
IMO the op does successfully illustrate the difference between percieved and actual gameplay reality. I have done such things myself in the past. I would do it more if there was a way to remove player names from films.
Unfortunately so many "haxx" accusations are so far removed from any real base that one can only shake his head. I can only appeal at every player to never utter such phrases like "no way XXX...", the C- or the H-word in the game. New players just pick thoses phrases up, start to believe it, and we end up with things like I showed in my last post.
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Its all in the film Moot and there is nothing but good flying there , I don't believe in the cheat thing and hold no credibility to cheating . I often find myself on the losing end of fights and sometimes find myself thinking how did he do that or how much practise time did he have in that plane to pull that off . People just need to get a grip on reality ( you don't always win ) and be humble just a little . Nice post Moot . :salute
Nutte
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Thanks Nutte.
Yes...one can question the realism of being able to control a machine with a 1G stall speed in the ~100mph IAS range at 70mph IAS at full throttle without accusing a good fellow like Moot of "cheating". Which would technically be a reason to meet at dawn for coffee and rapiers/pistols, if we retained any civilized customs in this society. ;)
FWIW, the 152's shape (I'm assuming that's the reason) gives it a very stable departure. The long wings (and overall dimensions) feel like a tight-rope balancing pole, and the aileron section of the wing has a different angle so that they stall after the rest of the wing does. And it also has relatively large flaps, and an excellent rudder.
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I can do a loop :D
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As Lynx has stated the "C" word isn't prevalent as much as it seems to be, but it does exist, as in all online games. However the truth be known, it is probably occurring more than .01% as it is in the other online games. Lynx, as well as many others, are very good "sticks". And will always be subject to this unfortunate branding. If Lynx has any fault, he does seem to be obsessive about dolling out misery to the Bish more than the nits, lol. :rock But if AH wants to truly address this issue, then they should do as the other online games do. As in other online games, their TOS includes random scans of hard drives checking the validity of ones game's version. It doesn't eliminate all possible
"hacks", but it will discourage its use. The other thing AH can do is not to discourage open discussions about this, so that we can all work together to keep this great game "rockin" on for years to come. And by the way Lynx, the majority of us Bish don't buy into the rumor mills. :salute
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All that needs to be said in the open is that you have a negligible chance of encountering cheats, and that any truly suspicious behavior is best reported directly to HTC. Discussing it in the open does no good. Or rather... What possible benefit could there be in open discussions?
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Also suggest filming all sorties every day and erase those you do not see funny wierd things or great fights you lose. fights you lose will teach you more ,than the ones you win. I was called a cheater recently by 5 guys on other side for shoting them down, they ranted on all channel for 20 mins how i was a known cheater. of course they had no proff of such rants. and they replued we all have it obn film today. so I sent film to HTc and few of these people lost vox for awhile.
my film is always on there is a way to save only part of a film, but don't just send exact time of incident but couple of mins before and afrter. since htc can see things we can't.
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All that needs to be said in the open is that you have a negligible chance of encountering cheats, and that any truly suspicious behavior is best reported directly to HTC. Discussing it in the open does no good. Or rather... What possible benefit could there be in open discussions?
To eliminate "rumor" mills, and show cause and effect such as the original post did. To expose "what is actually a "bug" not a "C". And to define negligible chance of encountering it is, is accepting such behavior. Even 1 "C" is 1 too many. Open discussion, open minds.
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As Lynx has stated the "C" word isn't prevalent as much as it seems to be, but it does exist, as in all online games. However the truth be known, it is probably occurring more than .01% as it is in the other online games. Lynx, as well as many others, are very good "sticks". And will always be subject to this unfortunate branding. If Lynx has any fault, he does seem to be obsessive about dolling out misery to the Bish more than the nits, lol. :rock But if AH wants to truly address this issue, then they should do as the other online games do. As in other online games, their TOS includes random scans of hard drives checking the validity of ones game's version. It doesn't eliminate all possible
"hacks", but it will discourage its use. The other thing AH can do is not to discourage open discussions about this, so that we can all work together to keep this great game "rockin" on for years to come. And by the way Lynx, the majority of us Bish don't buy into the rumor mills. :salute
I have been here since 2002 and play 150+ hours per month. In all that time in all those hours (12,600hrs) I have only seen 3 naughty people. I sent film in and the reply was on the lines "we already got em but thanks anyways". They also stated that they actively search in the arena and on the net for dodgy doo's.
Of all those accusations I'll bet 0.01% is very close to reality and thanks for not buying into the bollox :aok
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I have been here since 2002 and play 150+ hours per month. In all that time in all those hours (12,600hrs) I have only seen 3 naughty people. I sent film in and the reply was on the lines "we already got em but thanks anyways". They also stated that they actively search in the arena and on the net for dodgy doo's.
Of all those accusations I'll bet 0.01% is very close to reality and thanks for not buying into the bollox :aok
WOW, that's a 1/4 or your awake life for the past 7 years!
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In all that time in all those hours (12,600hrs) I have only seen 3 naughty people. I sent film in and the reply was on the lines "we already got em but thanks anyways". They also stated that they actively search in the arena and on the net for dodgy doo's.
An acquaintance of mine a while back found the hack that allowed unlimited bombs and and lower aircraft gross weight. He was curious about it and tried it in the game.
He was almost instantly booted and barred from the game, so they doing a good job of monitoring cheaters. It is irritating to hear almost everyday someone accusing someone else of "cable pulling" when probably 99% that accuse people of that have no idea what it means.
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I'm just trying to get good enough so that people will accuse me. I'd love to be accused of cheating, you guys don't know how good you have it. :D
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I'm just trying to get good enough so that people will accuse me. I'd love to be accused of cheating, you guys don't know how good you have it. :D
You know, to some who post in this thread, that statement may seem .........well...........dumb! But wait, It really is not. I have seen some amazing moves in my short time in game, and would give anything to know how they are pulled off. At time you can find (reviewing film ) an answer, more rarely you can ask how they do it ( getting an answer is a 50/ 50 deal here in my experience) or go offline, to the TA, or whatever and just try to duplicate it.
My personal biggest frustation has always been " how in the **** did they pull that shot off, and kill me with 3 pings?" I found too many are doing it to be " insert the C word here" so in reality, my gunnery sucks. How do I correct that? Simple keep flying, dying, and trying, with time it will come.
Bottom line? There are a bunch of us I believe who would give a limb, to be experienced and good enough to be called a C word. It may sound dumb, it may come across as dumb, but it also says, you've taken the time, made the effort, and understand just what it takes to be VERY good!
<S>
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WOW, that's a 1/4 or your awake life for the past 7 years!
well bugger me...... I better watch more TV instead :rock
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My personal biggest frustation has always been " how in the **** did they pull that shot off, and kill me with 3 pings?" I found too many are doing it to be " insert the C word here" so in reality, my gunnery sucks. How do I correct that? Simple keep flying, dying, and trying, with time it will come.
Not to hijack this thread, but...
Simple practice may not help, and may even "cement" bad practices/habits. It could be with shooting, as you mention, or flying. Either way, practice has to be done correctly to "make perfect". You may be further ahead to really look at your shooting practices/habits, and try to figure out where your errors/problems lie, and specifically work to correct them. Simply "trying harder" or "trying more" may not help...
And, now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
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You know, to some who post in this thread, that statement may seem .........well...........dumb! But wait, It really is not. I have seen some amazing moves in my short time in game, and would give anything to know how they are pulled off. At time you can find (reviewing film ) an answer, more rarely you can ask how they do it ( getting an answer is a 50/ 50 deal here in my experience) or go offline, to the TA, or whatever and just try to duplicate it.
My personal biggest frustration has always been " how in the **** did they pull that shot off, and kill me with 3 pings?" I found too many are doing it to be " insert the C word here" so in reality, my gunnery sucks. How do I correct that? Simple keep flying, dying, and trying, with time it will come.
Bottom line? There are a bunch of us I believe who would give a limb, to be experienced and good enough to be called a C word. It may sound dumb, it may come across as dumb, but it also says, you've taken the time, made the effort, and understand just what it takes to be VERY good!
<S>
It was meant to be a bit goofy little joke really. I read and study films, watch them from different angles and with trails off and on and dissect them pretty frequently. I've never seen anything impossible, or even improbable. I have seen stuff that looked odd to me from in my plane, but was perfectly normal on film from a different angle. I think lag and vantage point are the culprit in those cases.
I have only been back in AH for a few months (I was here for a few camps after AW died but RL got in the way for a while) but I was on AW for years. In my time here and there I only once saw what looked like someone cheating, and that was on AOL AirWarrior. Since I've been here I've been working like mad trying to regain some skill and instinct. I understand and always have what goes into being really good. The post was also sort of a play on that, and people's attitudes about being killed as has been stated above several times.
I was basically just making a joke there and a reference to the fact that there are lots of people who are actually working to get better rather than just cursing anyone who beats them. I kind of intended it to be a double entendre, with more than one layer, deceptive in it's simplicity. Sorry if it came off a bit lame, or even, gasp, dumb.
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This thread reminded of an experience I had about my 3rd month in AW . Right after it went 3d . There is the hlbly tooling along in his Cz dweebcat sees low and below him a guy in a hog dispatch his 3rd opponet . Gleefully rubbing his mits together he dives on this guy who has been turning with 3 of his "less skilled" countrymen . As he approaches the guy he is skillfully avoided by this EEEvillll Bz Hogg driver not to worry , just firewall the throttle hit the wep we will do it all over again , the giddy barely controlled giggle is stifled again , this guy doesn't have the sense to use his superior speed to try to get away this guy is MEAT on the hlbly table !!!!!Hmmmmm not quite as high as we were on the first pass , but no matter , we are still high enough muhahahahaha ! Down we blaze again oh yes this looks good just pull a little harder we will get the shot hehehehe shoulda run when !!!!!!! Ohhhhhhh Keeeerappppp man this guy is lucky that was so close ....lets zoom back up roll over and since each pass was a lil closer this time that obvious dweeb will die regretting not running , because it looks like he might just be able to make it to his ack now ........awwwww crapppppp we lost some more alt gonna have to grab away from the fight now.....right after we feast upon Bz hogg......Ohhhh this little evil red Hogg driving Bz dweeb gonna pay .....oh yes look at this he is mea.............awwwww crap man how can a guy get so frikkin lucky.......jeez that was close...........hmmmmmmm better not try a zoom again he may be able to get us as we hang on our prop ........hehehehe poor fool look he still wants to fight.....LOL he gonna turn with my F6F......well at least he got some cajones ......I think I will give him a <S> after I tell him to get me a beer while he is in the ....lol ....Love m new kill macro..........hehehe almost over now he gonna have to flat turn or run.... and those cajones of his guaranteeing my rightful kill he aint gonna run .......yes yes yes I got his 6 he turning left ....hehehehe guts but an obvious farm fresh dweeb he could easy escape this terrible situation I have so skillfully put him in .....heheheh i can hardly stand it I am sooooo clever..... hmmmmm WTF going on he is getting behind me....well thats just stupid....NO WAY!!!! F4U cannot out turn my F6F ....especially with this wayyyy cool skin courtesy of the kraits and sac.........i will just tighten up get it just as close as I can to the dreaded point where my plane is going to depart.......uh oh WTF he is gaining ground in the turn .......uncertianty being replaced by a sense of disquiet ....no no hlbly concentrate You know he can't out turn you and your well honed skills he will......oh nooo...no no no .......oh oh oh man that triangle falling off my plane.......NOOOOOOOOOOOO0000 00000000000000000oooooooooooo ooo..........oh man I gotta get him a beer when I reach the ground ........man he was.......uh.........luck.... ......oh man I think I just got worked.....well better get on a radio and give him his <S>.............Man no way f4u.....can..... Jeez RM how did you do that ? "do what hlbly" out turn me on the deck like that in my F6F....."what are you saying hlbly ?".........now confusion joins mild shock at the table of hlblys feast of chagrin....then a moment of clarity....he thinks I am accusing him of cheating....better set this straight........I am saying I just got my over confident dweeb butt handed to me by some one who is as good or better then I thought I was until about 25 seconds ago ...... I just knew you was gonna die horrible death until about 25 seconds before I died <S> RM ! Thats the day I learned that a F4U in AW with 2 notches of flap and keeping speed between150 to 175 Knots IAS can out turn a Hellcat .........Decided I better go look at the url of Rocket Man
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the best complement in AH is to be called a cheater :t
I have been called that many times also, not even 3 days ago I was in my Hurri fighting 5 at once, and was just having a good day at targeting, I have good SA and judgment of E-states, so I was giving these guys a good run of it, killed a couple, a couple more nme's entered the fight I was able to get away with 5 killz, was PM'd by one of the guys I killed a couple times, about "the program I was using, and film being sent in" I LOL on 200 and said I cheated by flying the Hurr2C :rofl :rofl
then told him to learn to fly and it wont seem like im cheating.
made my day actually :D
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This thread reminded of an experience I had about my 3rd month in AW . Right after it went 3d . There is the hlbly tooling along in his Cz dweebcat sees low and below him a guy in a hog dispatch his 3rd opponet . Gleefully rubbing his mits together he dives on this guy who has been turning with 3 of his "less skilled" countrymen . As he approaches the guy he is skillfully avoided by this EEEvillll Bz Hogg driver not to worry , just firewall the throttle hit the wep we will do it all over again , the giddy barely controlled giggle is stifled again , this guy doesn't have the sense to use his superior speed to try to get away this guy is MEAT on the hlbly table !!!!!Hmmmmm not quite as high as we were on the first pass , but no matter , we are still high enough muhahahahaha ! Down we blaze again oh yes this looks good just pull a little harder we will get the shot hehehehe shoulda run when !!!!!!! Ohhhhhhh Keeeerappppp man this guy is lucky that was so close ....lets zoom back up roll over and since each pass was a lil closer this time that obvious dweeb will die regretting not running , because it looks like he might just be able to make it to his ack now ........awwwww crapppppp we lost some more alt gonna have to grab away from the fight now.....right after we feast upon Bz hogg......Ohhhh this little evil red Hogg driving Bz dweeb gonna pay .....oh yes look at this he is mea.............awwwww crap man how can a guy get so frikkin lucky.......jeez that was close...........hmmmmmmm better not try a zoom again he may be able to get us as we hang on our prop ........hehehehe poor fool look he still wants to fight.....LOL he gonna turn with my F6F......well at least he got some cajones ......I think I will give him a <S> after I tell him to get me a beer while he is in the ....lol ....Love m new kill macro..........hehehe almost over now he gonna have to flat turn or run.... and those cajones of his guaranteeing my rightful kill he aint gonna run .......yes yes yes I got his 6 he turning left ....hehehehe guts but an obvious farm fresh dweeb he could easy escape this terrible situation I have so skillfully put him in .....heheheh i can hardly stand it I am sooooo clever..... hmmmmm WTF going on he is getting behind me....well thats just stupid....NO WAY!!!! F4U cannot out turn my F6F ....especially with this wayyyy cool skin courtesy of the kraits and sac.........i will just tighten up get it just as close as I can to the dreaded point where my plane is going to depart.......uh oh WTF he is gaining ground in the turn .......uncertianty being replaced by a sense of disquiet ....no no hlbly concentrate You know he can't out turn you and your well honed skills he will......oh nooo...no no no .......oh oh oh man that triangle falling off my plane.......NOOOOOOOOOOOO0000 00000000000000000oooooooooooo ooo..........oh man I gotta get him a beer when I reach the ground ........man he was.......uh.........luck.... ......oh man I think I just got worked.....well better get on a radio and give him his <S>.............Man no way f4u.....can..... Jeez RM how did you do that ? "do what hlbly" out turn me on the deck like that in my F6F....."what are you saying hlbly ?".........now confusion joins mild shock at the table of hlblys feast of chagrin....then a moment of clarity....he thinks I am accusing him of cheating....better set this straight........I am saying I just got my over confident dweeb butt handed to me by some one who is as good or better then I thought I was until about 25 seconds ago ...... I just knew you was gonna die horrible death until about 25 seconds before I died <S> RM ! Thats the day I learned that a F4U in AW with 2 notches of flap and keeping speed between150 to 175 Knots IAS can out turn a Hellcat .........Decided I better go look at the url of Rocket Man
Man, when I first got to aw, early on in aol, it was still pay by the hour, RM must have killed me a billion times right in a row. At one point he said "madda you've just got to get out of that hog!" I said, "but I love the hog" and he replied "well it obviously doesn't love you."
I think eventually he felt sorry for me and started coaching me a bit. RM was a really good guy, fun to fly with and against. He and Dragn probably showed me the most when I was new there, helped me quite a bit back then. Now here I am again at the bottom of the heap. Lotta fun to be had learning though!