Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: kamori on June 26, 2009, 06:39:30 PM
-
I had posted this in the beta area I guess that was the wrong place to do so...I thought the beta time would be a great time to debate this thought. I could be wrong. Now, if that is the real issue then I do hope this is the appropriate place to make the following statement, if that is not the real issue then I guess this is an inappropriate subject. Whatever the reason, i believe a open debate is healthy and can be informative.
"I understand the desire for HTC to keep as much of their clientele as possible. I wish there were not going to be lesser versions offered, (by the ability to drastically turn down graphics). I do know that in the AH2 one can turn down graphics and get unfair advantages in the Gv aspect of the game. It just cheapens the game play in my opinion.
I believe that the game should be brought to the graphics we are seeing in the beta, with minimal adjustments for terrain as long as the strategic game play does not suffer. I do know a good marketing campaign would more than recover the losses from the upgrade."
Kam
-
I am NOT I repeat NOT buying a new computer for the new update.
-
The problem with that kam is that it is not always an older machine that is a problem. Although, I have an ancient machine, my problems primarily exist because of connectivity issues with my ISP. Talk about a double whammy, loose clientele and still have bad gameplay issues. Throughout the years HTC has really impressed me with the broad base of support for the numerous numbers of OS and graphics cards. KUDOS HTC........ now let's see how beta runs for me ........ I might be putting the horse before the carriage. :x
-
Kamori, the issue you spoke about was simply a bug that was fixed very soon after it was reported, but got caught in the long release cycle.
HiTech
-
Like HT said, the "gv advantage" has been gone for a long time.
Anyway, graphics are nice and all but I'm not playing for the pretty pictures of the water and the ground. It's just eye candy and really has little to do for me regarding flying and fighting.
I do plan on upgrading in the future anyway, not because of the new graphics. If it did come down to being able to play a new version that looked pretty and I was unable to upgrade then I would be reluctantly gone.
wrongway
-
I don't see any problem whatsoever, I repeat, whatsoever, with upgrading the graphics and, therefore, requiring a modest computer upgrade in the process.
I say that in the knowledge that AH2 currently has fairly low-end computer requirements to run. Extremely low compared to other "modern" games/sims.
Having said that, if the new version allows for users to turn off "eye candy" without affecting gameplay, on their end or their opponents' ends, then this would be win-win.
Graphics don't make the game, but they aren't completely unimportant either.
-
The issue I'm referring to still exists. The advantage is still there. I am very aware of the fix. It did help but not by any means completly fixed. I have seen it time and time again. It is still here just not as extreme as it used to be. One can still dial down graphics and see tanks behind hills from ground and from above.Like I said Its better just not complete. Mabey this as good as it gets. Im not programming this software. If this is the best that it can be so be it.
Kam
-
I am NOT I repeat NOT buying a new computer for the new update.
I will. but I'm about due anyway..
-
I am NOT I repeat NOT buying a new computer for the new update.
[/quote?]
I agree I will not buy a new comp for a game either.
-
I am NOT I repeat NOT buying a new computer for the new update.
Fall behind, get left behind.
you get no sympathy from me. :aok
-
I am NOT I repeat NOT buying a new computer for the new update.
I took my 50cc scooter racing today, I was owned by every "big bike" on the track. I told them all to slow down because I didn't have the hardware to compete, they all laughed at me. :cry
Fall behind, get left behind.
you get no sympathy from me. :aok
You didn't want to sugar coat the truth one little bit did you?
-
As i close my eyes,
I feel it all slipping away
(i come towards you)
We all got left behind,
We let it all slip away
:rock
I think it´s still too early to slit wrists, yesterdays patch doubled my fps.
(I allmost placed order for a new rig, but now im going to wait for the released version)
-
I will be upgrading to a new machine next spring (as tax refund gives me a little leeway). For now, there are still AGP video cards out there I can purchase to replace my old ATI 9800. These days, gotta watch the pennies, keep the kids fed, and keep a wary eye on the job hoping it will still be there.
-
Exactly. Some folks just cant afford a new computer, and certainly not one just to play a game on.
I have no answers. The reality of gaming is as faster and faster puters come out the game writers will be writing more and more intensive code to better their product. Nothing is going to ever stop that.
But I do know what it feels like to not be able to spend that $1,000 cause your kids need shoes, food has to be put on the table, and now all of America and the world is worried about their jobs.
-
No one said that video gaming is an cheap 'hobby.' Other than some MMORPG's that are out there, I cannot think of too many games with at least the size of player base and continued development from the game designers such as Aces High that has not either released a new version with update graphics.
AH2 was released what, in 2004? 5 years ago? Plane models is about all we had in updates and IMO it was getting quite long in the tooth.
The fact of the matter is Aces High is a business and in the video game world you have to keep up or you'll be left behind. I don't have of their info but I would imagine that the player base of new players coming is getting fairly low. You've got the long time guys that have been playing for years and continue to play or the guys that come back and play off and on. But I'm not seeing a large or rather noticeable number of new pilots that just stumble on the game like I've seen in other game communities I've been a part of over the years.
I can talk to pretty much any gamer in my age group (mid 20's) or younger and if they see a game advertised they're going to see graphics as the first thing. "Oh that game looks sweet" etc. I can't count too many game advertisements that portray their biggest attraction aspects in "great community and gameplay." Advertising is a key essential to any business model and I have hopes that the new graphics update will bring a lot of a new player base instead of the vacation 2 week squeaker if you will.
If HTC wanted to continue, they had to draw a line in the sand somewhere. And for those of you gaming on your string bag for the last 7 years, there's a perfectly good corner in your bedroom where you can cry. It's a fact of gaming life, you need to upgrade eventually. And if it's not in your checkbook to do so, I'm sorry. I've been in that boat before too. Any hobby I've done over the years costs money, paint ball, hunting, golfing. They all can be expensive.
-
By normal standards of modern America, the cost of AH even with a new computer makes for a very inexpensive hobby/entertainment venue. Almost any hobby that can be named is more expensive than this game.
-
By normal standards of modern America, the cost of AH even with a new computer makes for a very inexpensive hobby/entertainment venue. Almost any hobby that can be named is more expensive than this game.
WHAT HE SAID!!
My other hobbies are Kayaking and Hog hunting, both of those are defiantly budget hobbies, and what I pay to play for either of them absolutly dwarfs what I spend on AH.
AH is the Ramen Noodles of Hobbies in the cost department.
and now more than ever its completely necessary, We have global warming and our president is trying to model our health care system after something he read in a Dr Seuss book, but I can still bounce a zero from 15k dammit.
-
Aces High has to keep improving. If it doesn't, then some other company out there will make something in competition with Aces High; at that point outdated graphics and code isn't going to hold up to newer stuff that can also offer the same gameplay. Ever wonder why AirWarrior isn't around anymore? Or other MMORPGs and games? If you don't adapt in the game industry you'll be left on the side of the road.
-
I'd like to see those other games update as quickly with HTC's staff, while spending most of the last few years working on a side project. HT will lose customers who can't/won't afford to upgrade, and you'll get more eye candy- isn't that exactly what you guys are asking for? You should be happy.
-
I took my 50cc scooter racing today, I was owned by every "big bike" on the track. I told them all to slow down because I didn't have the hardware to compete, they all laughed at me. :cry
So you think AH should be configured in such a way that better, faster machines give an advantage in the game?
You're comparing completely different types of hobbies. And I like AH in part because it is NOT like the video game racket with its millions of good little mindless consumers.
You didn't want to sugar coat the truth one little bit did you?
It's not a "truth," it's a state of mind, and a bad one. It's exactly what got us into this s*** we're in today, people piling up mountains of debt and pawning our future to the Chinese and Saudis in order to buy the newestlatestfastest consumer goods they don't need and can't afford. It's idiotic, is what it is.
That doesn't mean AH should never be upgraded. It DOES mean there are valid reasons for not wanting to see it turn into an electronic arms race.
-
Ppl leave for variety of reasons. To be successful HTC need to attract new subscribers, not keep old ones at all cost.
And AH dont need very good computer, after all.
-
Ever wonder why AirWarrior isn't around anymore?
I don't need to wonder, I know why Air Warrior isn't around, and it isn't because of its graphics, at least not directly. It isn't around because of something I mentioned in another thread WRT putting AH on one of the popular video game platforms: it got sucked into the larger gaming/consumer culture and bought up by one of the industry giants who promptly killed it because they want everyone to be hooked on the newestlatestfastest console games and having to replace all their hardware and game inventory every three years. Games like Air Warrior and Aces High don't fit into that market or business model, and the LAST thing AH needs to do is try to be more like Microsoft's or Sony's shiniest new toy.
-
WHAT HE SAID!!
Hog hunting, both of those are defiantly budget hobbies, and what I pay to play for either of them absolutly dwarfs what I spend on AH.
Hog hunting aye?
I bought my .30-30 used in good shape for $250, and I expect it will last me for hunting anything that lives in East Texas until I'm dead, properly cared for. Some odds and ends of PVC piping for feeders and scrap plywood for blinds probably brings the total investment to $251.98, plus some fifty pound sacks of corn now and again :)
(http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs102.snc1/4553_1059455499069_1606353641_1512601_2043200_n.jpg)
By comparison I spent $600 building a gaming stack less than two years ago. This is MONEY to me. It currently runs AH with maxed out sliders and hi-res skins at 60-85fps reliably and I would like it to last me for AHII until I'm in the grave also, or at least until Obama is out of office. Whichever comes first.
-
So you think AH should be configured in such a way that better, faster machines give an advantage in the game?
That is pretty obviously NOT what Kazaa is saying. :devil
As long as you have enough comp for decent frame rates at some graphical setting, the technology doesn't matter in the competitive sense in AHII. In fact, sometimes I think "seeing" a plane's aspect was easier at on my old E-machines at 800x600 resolution...
Hopefully players on marginal machines will be able to turn off enough settings in the finalized new version to continue to play well at about the same level of graphical detail they were used to anyway. If things can be made customizable to that extent, no worries.
-
Time to throw away those old Dell pre-builts and invest in some quality parts, boys and girls. :P
-
Hog hunting aye?
I bought my .30-30 used in good shape for $250, and I expect it will last me for hunting anything that lives in East Texas until I'm dead, properly cared for. Some odds and ends of PVC piping for feeders and scrap plywood for blinds probably brings the total investment to $251.98, plus some fifty pound sacks of corn now and again :)
(http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs102.snc1/4553_1059455499069_1606353641_1512601_2043200_n.jpg)
By comparison I spent $600 building a gaming stack less than two years ago. This is MONEY to me. It currently runs AH with maxed out sliders and hi-res skins at 60-85fps reliably and I would like it to last me for AHII until I'm in the grave also, or at least until Obama is out of office. Whichever comes first.
thats a fine swine, :aok
and yea you spent $600 for a computer... but you use it for much more than AH... thats like saying you spent 20 grand on a fishing trip because you drove your car to the lake. :P
that and pig blastin eats up more money over time than AH, despite a higher initial investment.
-
Just like the game advancing and moving forward bits and piecs at a time so should your computer!
I can't dump a bunch of money into a computer every couple of years, but I can put a bit aside when I can and buy that new powersupply, or a new video card, or a new cpu. Upgrading a little at a time don't hurt so much and still keeps you in the game.
And for those who are saying that they "won't upgrade just to play a game", well I'm sorry for ya, but also the world ain't going to stop for you either. Pay the piper, or get off the ride. My brother in law loves this game, but with 4 kids, and a house payment he just couldn't swing it so he doesn't play anymore after paying HTC for years. You do what you got to do.
-
the funny thing its not alot of money to upgrade these days ..
AMD route X2 phenom cored with motherboard/CPU x2 7750/4 gigs of RAM/ATI 3850-4830 series pcie video card - 170.00 and you can use your old hardware like the harddrive and optical drives etc....
-
I had a problem with a big blue bug on my screen with the beta. I checked the date of my video card driver and it was 2006.
I got the latest driver and it cured the problem. With everything maxed and all settings turned on i get 40-55 FPS, with object shadow off it is solid 60 FPS. THIS IS ON A PC I BUILT FEB 2006. it is now June 2009. I think some of you guys need to roll with the times.
I could understand the concern if you bought a PC a year ago and it couldn't run it. They have put in optional settings to turn off the eye candy so you will still be able to have all the gameplay you like in cartoon land.
-
And if it's not in your checkbook to do so, I'm sorry. I've been in that boat before too. Any hobby I've done over the years costs money, paint ball, hunting, golfing. They all can be expensive.
Try building and flying real airplanes :-)
(http://i515.photobucket.com/albums/t360/rvflyer/rvupdn2-1.jpg)
RV6flyer
-
My PC is 2-3 years old with a GPU that I'm pretty sure you can now get for around $50, and I run the new beta OK w/ self shadowing on (I could turn it off but it's too awesome :) )
Great work HTC!
-
It's not a "truth," it's a state of mind, and a bad one. It's exactly what got us into this s*** we're in today, people piling up mountains of debt and pawning our future to the Chinese and Saudis in order to buy the newestlatestfastest consumer goods they don't need and can't afford. It's idiotic, is what it is.
That doesn't mean AH should never be upgraded. It DOES mean there are valid reasons for not wanting to see it turn into an electronic arms race.
Oh geez, give me a break!!!!!!
-
I have used the same PC for the past 6 years or so.I gave it a few small up-grades here and there.It was still playing AH just fine with an AGP video card and AMD Athalon processeor that was equal to a P2 I believe.I tore it down for parts last month.I dont think I needed a new system but figured it was time.
I just built the new system using the old case,hard drive,CDR drive,and sound card.Firedragon sent me a video card.I bought a new mother board with a 3.1 Ghz Athalon XP duo core,550 power source,4 gigs of Ram for maybe 330 bucks US.I probably wont have to up-grade again for some time.
If i average it out I have spent roughly 130 dollars a year for equipment to play AH and some of the stuff I bought I cant say I realy "needed".
Just for conversation sake I am a working class hero who doesnt have a whole lot of money.I also dont think buying that stuff is going to kill the US economy or would be considered overly self indulgant.
Pipz
-
If you can afford to put away a hundred dollars a month at this rate and save up, you can have a top-of-the-line computer that'll last years. I just got a new PC last year with quad core, 4 gig of RAM, 512 8800GT and 500gig HD for one thousand dollars; it also included a new keyboard, monitor as well. Aside from probably getting another video card for SLI, or adding a stick of RAM here or there, it'll last me for years. My last PC from 2002 ran AH2 wonderfully up to when I got my new PC. In fact its still around but I upgraded to play some newer games like Armed Assault 2 and the next IL-2.
Listen, it'd be nice if we could all still use our old PCs from years ago to play the newer games but times change. Like going from drum brakes to discs, or mail-order bride to Megan Fox.
-
and yea you spent $600 for a computer... but you use it for much more than AH...
Uhmmm...actually I don't :D I might not OWN a computer if it were not for flight sims like AH.
-
And if we cant...HTC dose not get my 15$ anymore.A lot cant.I get fine F.R. if i turn all the GFX down and it looks even more like a cartoon.
If you can afford to put away a hundred dollars a month at this rate and save up, you can have a top-of-the-line computer that'll last years. I just got a new PC last year with quad core, 4 gig of RAM, 512 8800GT and 500gig HD for one thousand dollars; it also included a new keyboard, monitor as well. Aside from probably getting another video card for SLI, or adding a stick of RAM here or there, it'll last me for years. My last PC from 2002 ran AH2 wonderfully up to when I got my new PC. In fact its still around but I upgraded to play some newer games like Armed Assault 2 and the next IL-2.
Listen, it'd be nice if we could all still use our old PCs from years ago to play the newer games but times change. Like going from drum brakes to discs, or mail-order bride to Megan Fox.
-
I'm sure HTC will do all it can so that most of AHs' players will be able to continue. You will have to dial down....but you will be able to play.
You won't see what we see...but if you feel you don't need to that is fine. But no matter what, at some point, you will have to upgrade
to do anything on your present PC. Albeit maybe web searching and EMail. Game playing no matter what will as now and in the future, require
newer and faster hardware. That is a fact of life about anything that is bought and sold today.
-
Try building and flying real airplanes :-)
(http://i515.photobucket.com/albums/t360/rvflyer/rvupdn2-1.jpg)
RV6flyer
I think you had the plans upside down when you built that one... :D
-
Oh geez, give me a break!!!!!!
No problem, whaddya want broken?
It's artificially created demand, and you're a sucker to fall for it.
-
No problem, whaddya want broken?
It's artificially created demand, and you're a sucker to fall for it.
artificial demand, just like automobiles, houses, and electricity...
but no your right, anything that requires more than and old Tandy to run, is for suckers :aok
-
Thinking out loud...
lots of us older players have been down the "let's upgrade to stay abreast of the latest and greatest in gaming".
After years of playing we've figured out we had to budget for our new upgrade ti the best stuff!!! However, some of us budgeted for 2nd best. Iso of the absolute fastest, bestist we settled for one step below it. The price difference between best and also ran can sometimes be astronomical. Here's how lots of us did it....
I used to golf alot...$28 a round. Iso 4X a month I'd golf 3X a month. The money went into a kitty for upgrades.
Some of our guys smoked a lot. Think about prices nowadays. If you smoke 1 pack a day @ $5 a pack you're paying $150 a month.
If you cut down to 3/4 pack a day every 5th day is a free pack X 4 or $20 into the kitty.
There's a million ways to do it.
We should have a FOR SALE/SWAP/GIVE AWAY Forum on the boards. You upgrade and don't need the old one anymore Sell, Swap or Just give it to someone who needs one, I can't remember how many I've passed on to someone else but it's definately more than a few.
Check for squadies who live out West and can goto Fry's. They usually have Friday sales of MB/Chip combos for $110-120 or so. ALl you need do is buy some ram and a MB. Ram is cheap. Then again if we had a board for swaps/sales/give aways there are probably a lot of players who have old ram (one or two steps below the best) you can get cheaply. And its fairly cheap on line. Same for one step below the best vid card.
Point is $20 a month in a kitty = $240 a year. If you plan on a new computer upgrade every 2-3 years...get my drift?
You pay $15 a month for this game. .50 a day...You can't buy a cupajava a day for that price....
Are you sure you can't find a way to make it work?
People come and people go. Those that have stayed plan for it and have made lifelong friends. Per the commercial....that's priceless.
You might find another game somewhere but where are you gonna find a Flight Sim, Dogfight, multiplayer game with most folks in the arena who actually respect each other and can have a damned fine time.
Last I looked on Craiglist some dude was selling some sorta mage 80 or sumtin for $475. I think he's looking for someone who voted for Obama. MUAHAHAHAHAHA. :x
Ren
A player, just like you....
-
It's artificially created demand, and you're a sucker to fall for it.
With console games I'd agree with you. But not with Aces High...not by a longshot. The HTC crew are doing what they have to do to keep their game competitive, so people who DO have computers to run a lot of graphics will get a lot of graphics and not go over to some other game. This is most especially true for NEW players choosing between AHII and the competition.
Full blunt honesty: We all know their main competition is Il2. We all know basically the 1 thing Il2 has over AHII that counts in the mind of your average prospective customer is graphics...graphics that look like a freakin' painting on high enough settings. AHII's big advantage is flight modeling, which is less apparent to noobs even while using up more CPU and making it that much more difficult to put out whizz-bang graphics in a playable package. When HTC finally manages to get terrain/lighting modeling equal or better than Il2, combined with their flight model, and to top it off the new terrain will *still* look good driving a tank around, they will have a great big "So there!" to silence any negative comparisons between AHII and Il2 on a graphical basis.
-
Good point Ren.
Plus with upgrades comes better looks, I mean who knows what future version of AH will bring, possibly something that'll blow IL-2 out of the water, maybe we'll see pilots heads moving about when you look, moving ailerons on other planes, detailed destruction...so on and so on.
Lets keep moving ahead, in baby steps.
-
If you can play AH now, I see no reason you can not play the next version.
As far as any testing I can see you can produce the same frame rates at the same vis ranges as before. The only difference would be the terrain looks not quite as good for the very very low end guys.
HiTech
-
If you can play AH now, I see no reason you can not play the next version.
As far as any testing I can see you can produce the same frame rates at the same vis ranges as before. The only difference would be the terrain looks not quite as good for the very very low end guys.
HiTech
PS, Was on SB's computer
-
artificial demand, just like automobiles, houses, and electricity...
First of all, to be clear, this is way beyond the immediate context of this update, it's more about what I'd hate to see AH become part of (but don't really expect it will with the current ownership/management). EA killed Air Warrior, just like Hasbro killed every Avalon Hill title, because it didn't fit into their rat race market model.
Second, yeah, you need a house, a car, electricity, and a computer. What you don't need is a 5,000 sq. foot house for a family of three, a shiny new car as soon as you've paid off the last one, and $20,000 worth of consumer electronics including a new computer every 2-3 years on which most of the performance boost is wasted on software bloat. That's manufactured demand: no one needs it, but people feel like they need it because a whole industry is devoted to making them feel like their manhood is dependant on how much Stuff they own. If you're wealthy enough that those things don't impact your finances significantly, great, but for the other 95% of us it's silly to work full time + and have nothing to show for it but a pile of debt and a lot of luxuries that will be worth nothing in 10 years. What's the average American family's credit card debt these days, $10k?
The last computer upgrade that was really worthwhile to me was in 1997. Every machine I've bought since then didn't really do anything important that the previous one didn't do, it was just necessary because Microsoft has everybody by the yarbles with planned obsolescence. In that same time period I've bought one car, because Exxon and Toyota don't team up to force me to buy new ones by changing the type of fuel (incompatible with last year's model, natch) that's available every 3-5 years.
-
What EXACTLY are the NEW min requirments to play the new version of AH2 (the beta)? Are these specs listed yet?
Last year I bought a game for my daughter called "Oblivion" (at Best Buy). I did not realize the specs required to run this game. Turns out the game was being returned by almost every customer. Parents were not going to upgrade or buy a $2500 computer for thier kids to play a game.
Currently this game has a very small following. It never made it because the makers did not consider the min specs and what that meant to the customers base ( kids) who would be playing this game.
If the new AH2 can not be played on a "mid range" spec computer it will fail. If it can then all is good.
If you go look at new computer systems they are graded like this....Gaming system, office system, graphic design system...etc. They are graded by what you intend to use the computer for. A simple analgy is tools. You can buy a cheap cordless drill for the wife to hang pictures or you can buy a heavy duty commercial drill that you can use every day all day long and drop it all you want.
It all depends on what you are going to use it for.
All I can say if a game is desinged for high end systems it will fail. If it is designed to work on a mid range system it will succeed.
So, will AH2 succeed in making the game better in some way (see all the posts on the wish list forum) or will it just be a game that added eye candy with no real improvement in game play.
I vote for game play over eye candy.
-
Quit ranting about stuff that doesn't have anything to do with AHII. You are not talking about some giant faceless corporation here, they are not getting kickbacks for every new graphics card that gets sold. HTC has bent over backwards for years to make their game playable on very low end systems. It is fairly freaking amazing how well AHII has made a massively multi-player game that has pretty good graphics, and oh yeah, a very complex flight model calculating the aerodynamics many times per second work on low end systems. It has reached the point where they match the competition or get left behind. You and I know why AHII is clearly the best...the flight model, the view system, the coms, the instrumentation, and the careful thought that has gone into nearly every other detail. But, facts are facts, the average prospective player is more likely to make his choice based on a screen-shot showing sh*t hot graphics.
First of all, to be clear, this is way beyond the immediate context of this update, it's more about what I'd hate to see AH become part of (but don't really expect it will with the current ownership/management). EA killed Air Warrior, just like Hasbro killed every Avalon Hill title, because it didn't fit into their rat race market model.
Second, yeah, you need a house, a car, electricity, and a computer. What you don't need is a 5,000 sq. foot house for a family of three, a shiny new car as soon as you've paid off the last one, and $20,000 worth of consumer electronics including a new computer every 2-3 years on which most of the performance boost is wasted on software bloat. That's manufactured demand: no one needs it, but people feel like they need it because a whole industry is devoted to making them feel like their manhood is dependant on how much Stuff they own. If you're wealthy enough that those things don't impact your finances significantly, great, but for the other 95% of us it's silly to work full time + and have nothing to show for it but a pile of debt and a lot of luxuries that will be worth nothing in 10 years. What's the average American family's credit card debt these days, $10k?
The last computer upgrade that was really worthwhile to me was in 1997. Every machine I've bought since then didn't really do anything important that the previous one didn't do, it was just necessary because Microsoft has everybody by the yarbles with planned obsolescence. In that same time period I've bought one car, because Exxon and Toyota don't team up to force me to buy new ones by changing the type of fuel (incompatible with last year's model, natch) that's available every 3-5 years.
-
gameplay and eyecandy are not really related are they? You can change the gameplay without adjusting the graphics and visa versa. Each fuction independantly and need seperate work. Both are also vital to a good gaming experience. Gameplay is a constant formula through the ages, eye candy is fluid with each new technology and cpu advance.
-
I vote for game play over eye candy.
+1 I like the game as it is now.
-
+1 I like the game as it is now.
yea, im sure you would still play it if it were just wire frame and 5 colors as long as the FM was correct, problem is, you would have little else but sheep to shoot at because there would be very few customers paying.. on a monthly basis, to play something light years behind the times.
If you dont like improved visual representation of land sea and earth, well that's you... I dont like gangtards.. thats me..
but guess what.. improved graphics will bring in more people.. who will gangtard me.. so its a win win.. wait.. crap.
-
Computer upgrades are a part of life...
-
For my system to use beta this is what the game looks like to for me when flying
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/beta8.jpg)
and it's playable. What folk seem to be PANICING about is the FACT the LOW RES isn't enabled or fixed in the BETA....read Pyro's posts.
Second guessing which isn't the ideal thing to do, HTC is working things out on 2 levels. They are obviously looking to the future when systems like mine wear out / become obsolete and inevitable upgrades are needed. They seem also to be looking at the NOW...hence the low res for weaker systems like mine.
All I can say is the fat lady ain't singing so do not panic.
-
well said lynx!
-
For my system to use beta this is what the game looks like to for me when flying
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/beta8.jpg)
and it's playable. What folk seem to be PANICING about is the FACT the LOW RES isn't enabled or fixed in the BETA....read Pyro's posts.
Second guessing which isn't the ideal thing to do, HTC is working things out on 2 levels. They are obviously looking to the future when systems like mine wear out / become obsolete and inevitable upgrades are needed. They seem also to be looking at the NOW...hence the low res for weaker systems like mine.
All I can say is the fat lady ain't singing so do not panic.
Well said. Oh, BTW, the "fat lady" is in the wings with a box of doughnuts..don't think she'll be singing anytime soon. ;)
-
This is an on-line community we all want one thing to " Play Aces High". Maybe if needed we could set aside a part in the forums for selling, trading, or giving old parts to our fellow gamers instead of tossing them.
I gave one of my old squad mates some RAM i had lying around from my old system fixed him up only $1.80 US Mail.
"If your not on board and helping row your swimming behind".
-
Like HT said, the "gv advantage" has been gone for a long time.
Anyway, graphics are nice and all but I'm not playing for the pretty pictures of the water and the ground. It's just eye candy and really has little to do for me regarding flying and fighting.
I do plan on upgrading in the future anyway, not because of the new graphics. If it did come down to being able to play a new version that looked pretty and I was unable to upgrade then I would be reluctantly gone.
wrongway
I agree. Eye candy is nice but I wish HTC would have added 10-15 different planes and left us with the same graphics. But just my .02 cents.
-
I agree. Eye candy is nice but I wish HTC would have added 10-15 different planes and left us with the same graphics. But just my .02 cents.
that statement could roll over and over indefinitely..
kinda like, "1 more sortie, then Ill mow the lawn"
the lawn is 5 feet high, I cant find my dog, and I hear a Lion.
-
that statement could roll over and over indefinitely..
kinda like, "1 more sortie, then Ill mow the lawn"
the lawn is 5 feet high, I cant find my dog, and I hear a Lion.
"In the jungle,the mighty jungle..."
-
Just to get back on track...Th GV advantage is still there...although its better we still can see if a tank is behind a hill or not...
KAM
-
I vote for game play over eye candy.
I agree. But, it is a fact that eye candy sells.
As long as people can get a good frame rate with current or better graphics, the game will do just fine. It will probably be a good thing as old timers will stay and new players arrive.
Yes, I know, there is an "exclusive club" set of people on this BBS who rage against noobies. We were all new to the game at one time or another. More is better.
Regarding upgrades, my philosophy is to get last years' bleeding edge off the discount shelf today. So, I'll probably be enjoying the new graphics in a year or so.
One more thing on graphics. If more useful information can be presented, then upgrading is a good thing.
-
Just for conversation sake I am a working class hero
Pipz
A working-class hero is something to be.
-
You don't need a top of the line machine to play. If your on an old out dated machine you might have to updats a graphics card or something. You can't drive on the highway without a car. If you have a car then it has to be able to do the minimum posted speed on the highway.
-
A working-class hero is something to be.
i'm just working class how do i reach heroic status?
-
Last year I bought a game for my daughter called "Oblivion" (at Best Buy). I did not realize the specs required to run this game. Turns out the game was being returned by almost every customer. Parents were not going to upgrade or buy a $2500 computer for thier kids to play a game.
Currently this game has a very small following. It never made it because the makers did not consider the min specs and what that meant to the customers base ( kids) who would be playing this game.
Oblivion is one of the most popular RPG's I can think of (as someone that is not really into RPG's).
If the new AH2 can not be played on a "mid range" spec computer it will fail. If it can then all is good.
That really doesn't have anything to do with it... the beta for 2.14 can be played on my 'mid spec', if you could call it that, computer great, with everything turned on & up except for self shadowing, which mutilates frame rates. 'Mid spec' computers can handle this game easily. The question is whether it can be played well on low end computers, which I'm fairly sure it easily can on low settings, which is what you should be expecting if you've got a 5 year old rig.
Regarding upgrades, my philosophy is to get last years' bleeding edge off the discount shelf today. So, I'll probably be enjoying the new graphics in a year or so.
Aces High's graphics are not 'bleeding edge', and they never will be because so much of the player base has low end rigs. You can enjoy the new graphics now, considering two generation old NVIDIA cards can easily run the game 2.14 beta at very high settings.
One more thing on graphics. If more useful information can be presented, then upgrading is a good thing.
This is a pretty driving thing. With computers things progress very very fast. Software developers want to take full advantage of the current generation of computers because it makes the games more appealing- outside of graphics, newer games also have better physics engines etc., making the game more realistic and (with the help of better graphics) more immersive, which makes the game better in my book (although gameplay is the defining factor). Which is why computers become obsolete so quickly.
-
mid spec, at mid settings.. seems fair..
mid spec.. maxxed out settings.. cmon... be realistic.
if your still on on-board video.. seriously... you have gotten away with that long enough.
Ive seen people go through the "@&$^ i gotta upgrade my *#$^* computer now, what a crock!"
you know how it ends up?
"i cant believe how smooth it is!! ,its like a different game!!" I cant believe, wow,, wow I can see your nose art!! , Wow.. Its so smooth, WOW, im running the high res textures HAVE YOU SEEN THIS!?.. my god its smooth.. im at 60fps and everything around me is ON FIRE.. and its STILL SMOOTH!!! wow, its so smoo */.SQUELCH newpcguy*
-
Updated graphics could mean bringing us closer to realism. Its one thing for the FM to be realistic and accurate, but combined with the looks it'll be a great visual experience.
-
What EXACTLY are the NEW min requirments to play the new version of AH2 (the beta)? Are these specs listed yet?
#1, it's a BETA. As in, IN TESTING. Minimum required specs as stated by HTC are aimed to be similar to AH2's minimum specifications, however, as the beta is still considered "unreleased test", minimum specifications are subject to change. (as is anything that is not yet released officially)
Last year I bought a game for my daughter called "Oblivion" (at Best Buy). I did not realize the specs required to run this game. Turns out the game was being returned by almost every customer. Parents were not going to upgrade or buy a $2500 computer for thier kids to play a game.
Please tell me where you get this information from, as I think you're just pulling it from your nether-regions. Plus, in no way do you, or DID you need a $2500 computer to play Oblivion. I spent less than $800 on mine over 2 years ago and can run Oblivion (as well as everything except perhaps Crysis) just fine.
Currently this game has a very small following. It never made it because the makers did not consider the min specs and what that meant to the customers base ( kids) who would be playing this game.
Just FYI, the main customer base for Oblivion is NOT kids. It's adults. Aged 18-35. It's rated M for mature, mature meaning 17+ like a rated R movie.
Even with that, Oblivion is one of the highest selling PC games. But don't take my word for it...
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/10/oblivion-records-record-sales-1-7-million-and-climbing/
As far as it having a "very small following", all I've got to say is "ha".
If the new AH2 can not be played on a "mid range" spec computer it will fail. If it can then all is good.
Perhaps you are are under a false impression of what a "mid range" computer is anymore. My computer was not bleeding edge when I built, it, and 2 years later is considered aging low-mid range, but still handles everything I throw at it just fine.
If you go look at new computer systems they are graded like this....Gaming system, office system, graphic design system...etc. They are graded by what you intend to use the computer for. A simple analgy is tools. You can buy a cheap cordless drill for the wife to hang pictures or you can buy a heavy duty commercial drill that you can use every day all day long and drop it all you want.
It all depends on what you are going to use it for.
There is some truth to this statement. However, at the same time, you fail to mention how there are even grades of difference between even "commercial" drills or "consumer" drills in terms of price, performance, and reliability.
Plus, you go to use an analogy of buying the right tool for the job, but then complain when the job requires a better tool? Even the technology in drills has improved, or we'd still all be using those hand held crankable mini-auger looking things.
All I can say if a game is desinged for high end systems it will fail. If it is designed to work on a mid range system it will succeed.
From what I've seen with the Beta so far, it is absolutely not designed for a "high end system". Dawn of War II, Fallout3, and Oblivion are all games that are harder on hardware than this beta appears to be.
So, will AH2 succeed in making the game better in some way (see all the posts on the wish list forum) or will it just be a game that added eye candy with no real improvement in game play.
I vote for game play over eye candy.
As do I, but if I can get icing on my cake, why not put on the icing too? Plus, doesn't "eye candy" add to the immersiveness and realism, which enhances game play?
-
My current computer (a 5 year old Dell :P) used to get 15-20 fps on a good day.
I upgraded the RAM from 512MB to 4GB, and got rid of the old NVidia Geforce FX5200, and replaced it with an ATI Sapphire HD 3650.
Now I get anywhere from 60-100 FPS.
This was a total of about £80, or $132.24 (according to Google). Also, in games like Battlefield 2 and Flight Simulator X, which were both previously unplayable, BF2 is now brilliant, and FSX works quite well :D :aok .
-
#1, it's a BETA. As in, IN TESTING. Minimum required specs as stated by HTC are aimed to be similar to AH2's minimum specifications, however, as the beta is still considered "unreleased test", minimum specifications are subject to change. (as is anything that is not yet released officially)
Please tell me where you get this information from, as I think you're just pulling it from your nether-regions. Plus, in no way do you, or DID you need a $2500 computer to play Oblivion. I spent less than $800 on mine over 2 years ago and can run Oblivion (as well as everything except perhaps Crysis) just fine.
Just FYI, the main customer base for Oblivion is NOT kids. It's adults. Aged 18-35. It's rated M for mature, mature meaning 17+ like a rated R movie.
Even with that, Oblivion is one of the highest selling PC games. But don't take my word for it...
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/10/oblivion-records-record-sales-1-7-million-and-climbing/
As far as it having a "very small following", all I've got to say is "ha".
Perhaps you are are under a false impression of what a "mid range" computer is anymore. My computer was not bleeding edge when I built, it, and 2 years later is considered aging low-mid range, but still handles everything I throw at it just fine.
There is some truth to this statement. However, at the same time, you fail to mention how there are even grades of difference between even "commercial" drills or "consumer" drills in terms of price, performance, and reliability.
Plus, you go to use an analogy of buying the right tool for the job, but then complain when the job requires a better tool? Even the technology in drills has improved, or we'd still all be using those hand held crankable mini-auger looking things.
From what I've seen with the Beta so far, it is absolutely not designed for a "high end system". Dawn of War II, Fallout3, and Oblivion are all games that are harder on hardware than this beta appears to be.
As do I, but if I can get icing on my cake, why not put on the icing too? Plus, doesn't "eye candy" add to the immersiveness and realism, which enhances game play?
At the time I bought Oblivion it has just been released...like in days on the shelf. That was over 2 years ago. At that time the game was being returned by many many people at the loctaion I bought it at becuase it required "at that time" a high end system to run it. At that time the mid range computers like most college kids have for school would barly run the game....technically it would run but it was basically unplayable.
I really have no other information about the game so I could be wrong an the other accounts. But it doesn't matter. It was just an example of how a games success can be related to the min specs of the average computer user.
Knite, you obviously disagree with everything I said in my earlier post which is kinda strange. I cant believe none of my points got acroos.
I am not under the false impression of anything. I build my own systems as well.
I am just saying that as a 40+ y/o adult who likes to play a game that requires "brains" and not twitch skill that I would prefer a game..this game...to improve in ways that better the actual game play. I agree that nice graphics are ...welll nice. If I could have it all I would take it all.
But, if the game becomes something that forces me to run it at min specs...everything turned off/down/unchecked and I end up playing a game that struggles to function then that is a bad thing. Not just for me but for everyone.
I am sure that whatever AH2 is doing now their "dream game" ( i dont mean the beta I mean what they would build if there no limits) will run on any computer 2 years from now. They just have to figure out how to get from now to there without loosing players.
I think this is really up to the hard core coders who are writing the code. There are limits. From an engineering point the its a problem to be solved. If you let the "graphic designer" dept rule the roost you will have a game that wont run. If you let the Coders rule the roost you have a game that no one can fig out how to use.
It's quite simple. Build a game that exceeds the average computers ability ...no body will play it. Build a game that runs fairly smoothly on mid range computer (current mid range) no problems.
As for the really low end computers. It just like what happend to dial up internet. As a web designer I eventually had to stop designing pages for those users. I had to draw the line. It cost too much time to do both low and high bandwidth versions. I didnt want to keep building pages of text just to the dial up users could see it too. Things do move on.
I agree if you have a very low end computer that struggles to run this game it time to upgrade something.
I just dont want to see ah2 go craZy with the graphics and push the mid range users out the door.
-
WOW you guys have really gotten away from Kam's OP.
I think he was trying to start a thread to hash out the allowance for low res while upgrading the graphics at the same time. While some of you guys are still on the kick of telling others they just leave if they can't afford to upgrade. For one this arguement has come up many times and has gone nowhere except that HT has decided that it would do all it can to keep the player base it has (maintaining customers is much easier than getting new ones) while trying to keep things up to date to get in the new ones. :aok
Secondly part of the problem of getting in new players is the learning curve IMHO not graphical issues. Many of the younger players don't want to take the time to learn anything and think it should be like their console FPS and be able to get their kills after 10 minutes of playing, not to mention their cheat codes.
Finally to get back to Kam's argument. I think it is in good interest to try to keep things playable for the most amount of people. I too have witnessed a few times that people seem to have shots on me through hills and trees, but I think this is mostly from lag or some kind of difference between machines more than a graphical adjustment. I could be wrong but the amount of times this happens seems very rare and after looking at the new version with things turned down I don't really see it being any worse than the current version is. As a matter of fact I have the current version running maxed out and have taken a few shots at gv's that look like they are going through a hill (just under the edge) and land hits and even get kills, so this is not always that someone is turning down graphics to do it. Sometimes I think the problem is more where the computer shows the objects to be to the user and where it actually registers it at. (I really don't kow how else to explain it)
Anyway this is my take on the question originally asked.
-
Last year I bought a game for my daughter called "Oblivion" (at Best Buy). I did not realize the specs required to run this game. Turns out the game was being returned by almost every customer. Parents were not going to upgrade or buy a $2500 computer for thier kids to play a game.
Currently this game has a very small following. It never made it because the makers did not consider the min specs and what that meant to the customers base ( kids) who would be playing this game.
I really have no other information about the game so I could be wrong an the other accounts. But it doesn't matter. It was just an example of how a games success can be related to the min specs of the average computer user.
Oblivion shattered all prior sales records (1.7 million sold in its 1st year, a feat that was only beat by it's follow up release Fallout 3) and as of 2007 has sold over 3,000,000 copies.
Define "small market" and "never made it" for me please.
Oblivion was (is) one of the most sucessfull games ever made, high spec. included.
So much for your "theory".
(back on topic) I am pretty sure I read that the curret specs for AH will be the same for the new release.
Don't let the Beta freak you out, as there is a low-res option for the new release that wasn't included in the Beta.
If you can fly now, you should be able to fly no problem when the new release comes out.
-
So you think AH should be configured in such a way that better, faster machines give an advantage in the game?
You're comparing completely different types of hobbies. And I like AH in part because it is NOT like the video game racket with its millions of good little mindless consumers.
It's not a "truth," it's a state of mind, and a bad one. It's exactly what got us into this s*** we're in today, people piling up mountains of debt and pawning our future to the Chinese and Saudis in order to buy the newestlatestfastest consumer goods they don't need and can't afford. It's idiotic, is what it is.
That doesn't mean AH should never be upgraded. It DOES mean there are valid reasons for not wanting to see it turn into an electronic arms race.
What he said ...
Not sure it makes sense to require folks to spend money to upgrade at a time when lots of em are wondering if they are going to have enough cash to pay the mortgage.
I've been playing the game since 2000, flying around the arena these days I don't hear many folks complaining the graphics stink.
Still, it seems to me every effort is being made to minimize the impact on frame rates - efforts I applaud.
In the past, when HT has made changes that impacted the frame rate, they've usually come back and found ways to minimize the impact. I know, cause I was among the crowd moaning and groaning about the change.
So I have faith and hopes for this update
-
When Aces High 1 became Aces High 2 I was unable to afford the upgrade. I sat on the forums for six long months wishing i could play the new game. Finally I was able to afford to start a hire purchase deal on a new PC. I had just formed a new squad with some good friends in AH1 and when i returned i felt like a new comer at first. It really was frustrating being exluded but I never once expected everyone else to suffer it with me. It was my short coming in the system requirements
I know what it is like to be left behind. This time I wont be. Why should I not enjoy this moment? Does not mean I don't feel bad for thoe who cannot keep up. I was one of them. This time it may be your turn to sit out for six months so I can enjoy the improved product.
:uhoh
-
Friends, pile-its, and countrymen(I fly all three, so......)....Lend me your ears!!
Upgrading your PC does not have to be expensive!!
Hell, you could probably build an entirely "new" system better than what you currently have for less than you think!
You don't always need the latest and greatest! I know a lot of you guys have issues with eBay, but I've found them to
be a reliable source for acquiring used parts (tested of course with warranties) such as older CD2 cpus, older high-end video cards (my Geforce 6800GS AGP runs the beta great!),
memory, etc.
Not sure why everyone is against doing an upgrade if you do it intelligently... You don't need anything close to the latest and greatest to run the beta.. And I'm sure after any bugs
are worked out, it will run even better on lower end machines...
I've got so many Pentium 4 and Pentium D machine guts that I could probably put together a decent system for about 10 of you guys for under 100 bucks..
I put together my wife's system a few months ago... Check this out....
C2D e4500 2.2ghz----> bought this CPU used off of eBay for $25.00.... Works perfectly...
Crucial Ballistix pc6400 2 gigs------>$30.00 new in the package from eBay..
Geforce 6800 Ultra PCI/e 512------>$20.00 from eBay (I swear!!)
OCZ 650 watt PSU-------->$40.00 after rebate and is the only item I bought new....
I had a case laying around as well as a 120 gig Sata drive and cd/dvd rom, keyboard, mouse....
It's not that much money! I bet some of you could even get better deals than that!!
I bet some of you could get away with upgrading processor and ram and be fine with existing video card...
Also, some of you could try overclocking if you're feeling confident... I had some real success in oc'ing my
Pentium 4 and Geforce 6800GS...
-
I think that the biggest block in the road for most people at this point is that they are using onboard video or an out dated card, and maybe not enough ram.
I have this card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130297) which handles the beta version very well, and RAM is ridiculously cheap anymore (I bought a gig a year ago for like $60 I think). Most could probably bring their marginal rigs up to speed and really be able to enjoy the update for under $100.
-
I dont see the issue. I seriously doubt any gamer is playing just this.They play COD,FO3 BF2 and they ALL are graphic intense. Get a grip.If you have to update the graphics card its not going to break you and your not going to play an OLMM game with the same rig forever.Sooner or later your going to have to keep up with the middle of the pack or get left behind. Ht has done a fantastic job keeping the req's for AH as low as possible. That at some point has to raise on the tech end. Were not playing pong here.
-
Oblivion shattered all prior sales records (1.7 million sold in its 1st year, a feat that was only beat by it's follow up release Fallout 3) and as of 2007 has sold over 3,000,000 copies.
Define "small market" and "never made it" for me please.
Oblivion was (is) one of the most sucessfull games ever made, high spec. included.
So much for your "theory".
...snip
Can you guys quit with the Oblivion thing. I just used it as an example in MY CASE. My daughter had a low end computer and it wouldnt run.
My comment about it was when IT FIRST came out. At that time it wasnt the most succesful game. And it did have problems. Please review all of my posts to get the WHOLE point.
Please carry on with the relavent point about AH2
ps. seem latly you guys just want to dog pile me for voicing my points.
-
Can you guys quit with the Oblivion thing. I just used it as an example in MY CASE. My daughter had a low end computer and it wouldnt run.
My comment about it was when IT FIRST came out. At that time it wasnt the most succesful game. And it did have problems.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/10/oblivion-records-record-sales-1-7-million-and-climbing/
Oblivion records record sales, 1.7 million and climbing
by James Ransom-Wiley { Apr 10th 2006 at 3:25PM }
According to NPD sales figures, Bethesda's The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion has become the fastest selling Xbox 360 title to date, in North America. In addition, the PC version accounted for 13% of all Windows games sold during Oblivion's first week of release — more than four times the percentage of the next best selling game. Currently, the standard and collectors editions rank #1 and #2, respectively, on the PC sales chart. Bethesda reports that more than 1.7 million combined units have shipped.
And to beat this horse anymore, Oblivion for at least the next two years was used in almost every computer benchmark (for CPU or video card etc) as one of the toughest tests for a product because of its high requirements for performance. Using AH2 beta and Oblivion for your analogy was a poor choice as other have stated. You'll need to find different cannon fodder to make your point.
-
ps. seem latly you guys just want to dog pile me for voicing my points.
No offense was intended from my end Agent. I wasn't trying to "dog pile". Just a bit confused as to where you are coming from. It seems a lot of posts have been from the point of view that the beta was a finished product, and I understand the anger some are feeling with the idea they may be "left behind". The most unfortunate part about a situation like this is most laptops and even a lot of desktops sold still have completely inadequate hardware to handle anything more complicated than a 4+ year old 3d engine, and sometimes that frustration gets directed at the creators of the engine, as opposed to the computer manufacturers for not even attempting to put any decent 3d card in thier systems out of the box.
Aces High has always had "low" system requirements compared to games coming out around the same time. In fact, I'd be willing to bet the current AH2 (not beta) can run on some pieces of hardware that would choke on World of Warcraft, which, IMO is one of the most hardware requirement friendly programs out there. The beta itself does not compare (when running properly, and again, IMO) with the minimum spec requirements of most PC games coming out right now such as Dawn of War II, Far Cry 2, Dragon Age, and so forth.
It IS beta, and hopefully things will be improved by release time. As far as I can tell from following and playing this game on and off since the original launch beta, HT, Scuzzy, Pyro and the others DO care about the game, even if they make decisions that don't always make sense at face value.
-
Many of you can upgrade parts for $100-200. Some of you can build a new machine canabalizing parts from your old machine for $300-500. You can build an all new computer that will run this game for as little as $600-700 or you can build a really nice computer that will play this game for years to come for $1000-1500.
So, find the option that fit's your budget and get to work.
This is so much cheaper than my other hobby; offroading: Vehicle, Suspension lift kit with new springs, control arms, bushings and brake lines, extended rear shackles, quick release sway bars, ARB air locking front and rear differentials with on-board compressor and interior switches, lower differential gears, re-geared speedometer, big mud tires, brush guard, nerf bars, rear tire & gas can carrier, skid plates, 8000' winch with front and rear receptor mounts, off-road front and rear lighting with interior switching, CB radio, bigger radiator, bigger battery, bigger brakes... you get the idea. And that doesn't count travel expenses, registration fees, and a complete compliment of back-up parts and accessories for the inevitable trail break-down.
-
Many of you can upgrade parts for $100-200. Some of you can build a new machine canabalizing parts from your old machine for $300-500. You can build an all new computer that will run this game for as little as $600-700 or you can build a really nice computer that will play this game for years to come for $1000-1500.
So, find the option that fit's your budget and get to work.
You are basically asking people to buy AH for anywhere between $100 and $1500. Their other games would benefit as well, true, but usually computers are way over specced for 90% of what you do on them (I am not including 14 years old addicted gamers in this statement). I am now out of the game because I cannot get an acceptable frame rates with my current two laptops. I will not buy a 3rd computer just to play AH, as much as I love this game. Instead I have to wait it out till it is a good opportunity to get a new computer and not just for AH (required specs will continue to rise in the mean time).
This is not a reason to prevent upgrades from the game - it must advance to survive and I want it to be top notch when I finally get a computer that can run it. But please, cut the "it is only $<3-4 digit number> to upgrade!" crap. HTC know that they have to make this a gradual progress or loose a large fraction of the customers if they make a sudden large jump.
-
You are basically asking people to buy AH for anywhere between $100 and $1500. Their other games would benefit as well, true, but usually computers are way over specced for 90% of what you do on them (I am not including 14 years old addicted gamers in this statement). I am now out of the game because I cannot get an acceptable frame rates with my current two laptops. I will not buy a 3rd computer just to play AH, as much as I love this game. Instead I have to wait it out till it is a good opportunity to get a new computer and not just for AH (required specs will continue to rise in the mean time).
This is not a reason to prevent upgrades from the game - it must advance to survive and I want it to be top notch when I finally get a computer that can run it. But please, cut the "it is only $<3-4 digit number> to upgrade!" crap. HTC know that they have to make this a gradual progress or loose a large fraction of the customers if they make a sudden large jump.
I bought my first computer in summer of 1996. It was an IBM with a 150 Mhz PII CPU, 16 Mb of RAM, 2 Mb on-board video RAM and a 4 Gb HD running Windows 95. Between that, a monitor, printer, speakers, keyboad, mouse and scanner I paid about $2000. I played AW and AWII on it. I upgraded it to 32 Mb of RAM and 4 Mb of on-board video RAM along the way (yes, I was able to add a second 2 Mb VRAM chip to the motherboard). No more upgrades could be done. Should that system still be able to run the new version of AH?
In 1999 with my first system already hopelessly outdated I bought a Dell with a 600 Mhz PIII, 128 Mb of RAM, a dedicated 16 Mb video card and a 13 Gb HD running Windows 98. Again, including everything for a complete new system, I paid about $2000 and I played AWIII on that machine. When I moved to AHI I upgraded to 512 Mb RAM, a 64 Mb video card and two 120 Gb HD's. I played AH on that until March of 2008. Since then I've upgraded that machine to a 1.2 Ghz CPU, 768 Mb RAM and 440 Gb of drive space with a Win98/Win XP dual boot and it's still in use although not for gaming (although it will still run AH at 14-30 FPS along with most of my other games). Would most of you think that this machine should be able to run AH?
In March of 2008 I built a new machine with a 2.66 Core2Duo which I overclocked to 3.2 Ghz, 4 Gb of RAM, a 512 Mb video card and 1.5 Tb of drive space running Windows XP. Again I bought a new monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, etc. and paid about $2000, a quarter of that on things other than the box itself. This machine runs AH pegged to my monitor's refresh rate (60 FPS) with everything maxed out. If I were to do it again I don't think I'd have spent as much... probably more like $750-1000 for just the box.
Technology marches on. I don't make the rules. If I could still get by on that machine I bought in 1996 I'd be several thousand dollars richer and believe me I wish I was but that's just not reality. Period.
My total investment in computer technology is $38/mo. over 13 years and will continue to decrease as I get more use out of my new machine. It was $27/mo. until I built my new machine. Fortunately, technology advancement relative to computers has leveled off somewhat and obsolesence is less prevelant than it once was. The other fortunate thing is that I use my machines for more than just playing this and other games. I watch movies, listen to music, surf the net for news and information, use e-mail, type correspondence, build spreadsheets and a multitude of other things so the amout of my investment allocable to this or any other game is minimal. I see it as an investment in connectivity to the world, personal productivity and entertainment and IMO it's well worth it.
BTW, I also have a laptop that I'm typing this on right now.
I guess if you want to keep driving a Yugo, a Ford Pinto or an AMC Gremlin then more power to you. Most people have upgraded. It's a good analogy as vehicle technology also continues to advance. I started driving in a 1964 Chevy Belaire. I could hardly imagine that being my daily driver today (although I wish I still had it).
-
HTC know that they have to make this a gradual progress or loose a large fraction of the customers if they make a sudden large jump.
That is why they take so much time to test the newest offering. They will lose some but they will gain many.
I know quit a few play this game on a laptop. I always wondered why though. If you can play a decent game on your lappy you should feel blessed.
-
The title made me lol.
Great graphics and older computers shouldn't be used in the same sentence.
-
The title made me lol.
Great graphics and older computers shouldn't be used in the same sentence.
Yup... I'm upset because the new beta wont run on my Compaq Suitcase. :cry
:aok
-
Hi Tech is a place of Business. What do places like this need to do......????? They need to make money! To keep new customers coming to there business and to keep some old customers too.... They need to upgrade.
Not only that but If your playing the game on and APPLE 2GS or something (LOL) then you shouldn't be trying to game with your PC anyway!
I think Hi tech has done a great job trying to keep the masses playing. But TECH changes and if people can't deal with that then they shouldn't be PC gaming! Now you don't have to be a Upgrade Nerd like I am "always having the top of the line everything and upgrading every month. " But if want to game on a PC like I said you do need to keep your PC somewhat up to date. That's just a fact of PC gaming life. If you can't deal with that BUY an XBOX or PS3!
There are some upgrades you can do for little money or no money....
1. Don't download the High RES. pack. If your PC can't handle it don't do it.
2. Turn down the settings on your Video card if its older.
3. Make sure AA settings aren't on in the game.
4. If your Video card is old but it has good cooling Over clock it just a little. A few FPS sometimes makes the Difference.
5. Upgrade your Mother board most higher end On Board Video Cards would let you play ACES HIGH on high settings anyway.
6. Upgrade your CPU to the Highest Chip it will allow. If your CPU socket is a older 775 socket you could get a Intel P4 for dirt cheap now. Also check how much RAM your using and upgrade that if necessary. The reason I put these to together is because Flight SIMS are so CPU and RAM based that this could go along way to getting better game performance.
There you go.... Of course that's not all you can do but those are somethings to think about............ But really guys Come on It's not like ACES HIGH is going from low tech (everyone can play) to CRYSIS graphic specs! This is not that hard.
But on a side note Like I said ........ I think Hi Tech has done a stellar Job trying to keep this game to the masses and they still are doing a good job! Thank you Hi tech keep up the good work.
And to the rest of the people complaining come on you gotta change things once and awhile,....... you can't expect the world to revolve around you, and then wait for you to upgrade first and then we have to ask you for permission to upgrade too! COME ON!
-
A working-class hero is something to be.
:aok
-
On one more Side note.... I just looked on Newegg there are a couple of video cards available for cheap that will keep you playing this game for years on high settings
Cheap $60 to $100 range....
Nividia 9600GT 60 to 70 bucks PCI express 2.0
Nividia 8800gt 70 bucks or lower PCI express 2.0
ATI 3850 PCI express 2.0 60 to 70 bucks
ATI 3850 or 3870 AGP around 100 bucks
ATI 4770 PCI express 2.0 (small card new 40NM tech) 100bucks
ATI 4830 PCI express 2.0 70 to 100 bucks
ATI 4600 series AGP or PCI express 2.0 60 to 100 bucks
Middle range:
ATI 4850 PCI express 2.0 130 to 170 bucks
Nividia 9800 GT 80 to 130 bucks PCIE 2.0
Nividia 260 GTX 130 to 160 bucks PCIE 2.0
ATI 4870 PCIE 2.0 150 to 180 bucks
And even some low end ATI 4890, from 190 bucks
Now I didn't leave links so you could find them but my point is do the costs in your head....... To be able to play your favorite game for at least a couple of years with out any problems, wouldn't it be worth it? Especially the lower end cards you most likely won't need to upgrade anything else to use them. They usually run with lower power supplies. And if you still want to go cheaper still you still get some pretty good performance out of a Nividia 9400 gt or a ATI x1650 might not be the absolute highest settings then but still nicer then what you have probably now! Would get you better FPS too.
Look around everything is getting cheaper because of the economy and the fact that ATI and Nividia Are both coming out with new Video card series very soon with in a month.
My Specs:
Intel Q9550 @ 3.2 12MB Core 2 quad cache
Gigabyte EP45-U3DL
8 GIG G.Skill RAM 1066MHz
OCZ 700WATT PSU Modular
H.I.S. ATI HD 4850 @690/1150
Western Digital Black 500GB 7200RPM 32MB Cache
Zalman CNPS5000a CPU Heatsink & Fan
-
Anybody got a spare Dual Core (core 2 duo, etc) laying about?
My mobo is socket 775 and can support up to quad core chips (Intel) but $ is an issue.
Currently running 3.2ghz p4.
-
I might I'm getting rid of some parts soon on my other gaming PC
Core 2 duo e7400
Asus p5q-em
And some other parts if your intrested Private message me.
-
You can't drive on the highway without a car. If you have a car then it has to be able to do the minimum posted speed on the highway.
How often does the government raise that minimum speed so that older cars can no longer meet it?
Not every 3-5 years, that's for sure.
When was the last time you took your five-year-old car to the shop only to be told that no one supports that old model anymore and you'll have to buy a new one? :huh
-
How often does the government raise that minimum speed so that older cars can no longer meet it?
Not every 3-5 years, that's for sure.
When was the last time you took your five-year-old car to the shop only to be told that no one supports that old model anymore and you'll have to buy a new one? :huh
That would be a valid point if cars became twice as fast every two years.
-
I dont see the issue. I seriously doubt any gamer is playing just this.They play COD,FO3 BF2 and they ALL are graphic intense.
Not me. I don't play any of those. I bet I'm not the only one, either.
Were not playing pong here.
No, we're not. We're not playing COD, FO3, or BF2, either.
On a scale of 1-10 I rate eye candy at 0.5 and game play at 11. I simply do not care about whiz-bang graphics. I also think Tora, Tora, Tora was an infinitely better movie than Pearl Harbor - heck, I think December 7th was a better film than Pearl Harbor.
AH2 is a rare gem in an industry that usually sees graphics as everything and game play as an afterthought, if they think of it at all.
-
That would be a valid point if cars became twice as fast every two years.
Cars could get 10 times as fast as they do now and the minimum and maximum speeds on highways would change very little. And a street-legal car that could go 400 mph would be wasting all that power capacity because the driver has no practical use for it.
You fail at analogy.
-
Crash Orange, now it's a rare gem with great graphics. :D
-
AH2 is a rare gem in an industry that usually sees graphics as everything and game play as an afterthought, if they think of it at all.
I would have to disagree about the industry. Almost all games that do very well have great game play, AH is nothing special in that regard.
But they also find the balance of graphics that can play on a wide range of machines.
And in the last testing we did today, FPS would go up with most slower machines running same ranges, but non detailed terrain.
HiTech
-
That would be a valid point if cars became twice as fast every two years.
That is a very good point cars don't double in speed every 2 years. But computers do. Also just because they do doesn't mean you have to upgrade every two years either. Here's my list of Ideal upgrading conditions.
1. If you want to game on the PC upgrade about every two years is appropriate. Think of it in terms as if you are a gamer on gaming consouls. New gaming consouls come out every 3 to 4 years and then you upgrade. Do you get mad a xbox and playstation because you can't play all your old games on that too? So every two years is not unheard of in the gaming community. But I only recommend this if your a fanatic like me.
2. You don't have to upgrade every two years, most gamers do about every 5 years (meaning they're whole PC ) Usually what happens instead of upgrading your whole computer you just upgrade your video card and maybe CPU and RAM. But video card is definitely the most important. A new video card top of the line will play most games for about two years at high to almost high levels.
3. If your not a fanatic like some are and there is only one or two games that you like to play. Don't upgrade until you can't play the game anymore. If you think about the ACES HIGH version that is going out soon.. If you bought a top of the line video card and CPU at the beginning of that version it would be about 7 - 8 years till you needed to upgrade. So if you only play this game that averages out to not so much money per year for upgrade.
4. Good planing always helps!!! Do some studying before you purchase your next PC. See where then trends are going. The more reseach you do the better understanding you'll have to know how long upgrades will be available for your PC. If you buy a cheaper model( Which is not always a bad thing if you just need a computer and money is tight! ) Than don't expect it to last forever and that you won't be able to upgrade as much. Kinda like you get what what you pay for.
So again my opinion is that Hi Tech is way over do for some upgrades. I don't think it's they're fault either, because they have been trying to appeal to the masses for so long that they just got behind. They had to make it playable for people with the Hand Me down computer as well as the highend computers and they had to make them both happy. That's gotta be tough! With the new Tech age of 64-bit and CPU's and GPU's getting more and more cores and getting more and more powerful they finally needed to take a step up to keep with compatibility and to keep the customers happy. It's just the way it works.
I also said in my last post two It's not like they're upgrading so much that it's goning to be unplayable for most. Most people still will be able to play it with lower end computer!!!
-
I'm not sure why this subject is getting to me so much????? But an after thought I had spend a hundred dollars get yourself a new video card and be set for the next 5 years. If ya can't do that and times are that tight "which some are and you can't help that" then don't ya think you should maybe even think about quiting the 15 bucks a month too?
LOL alright maybe I'll finally be able to let this subject rest for me :aok
-
Cars could get 10 times as fast as they do now and the minimum and maximum speeds on highways would change very little. And a street-legal car that could go 400 mph would be wasting all that power capacity because the driver has no practical use for it.
You fail at analogy.
Cars can't go twice as fast every two years. How often is the world speed record broken? And by how much is that broken?
The car analogy is not mine. I was only pointing out why you were wrong. I will not try to make an analogy as there is no industry that is analogous with the computer industry.
And a street-legal car that could go 400 mph would be wasting all that power capacity because the driver has no practical use for it.
Of course, and this is another reason why the car vs. computer industry comparison is a poor one.
-
How often does the government raise that minimum speed so that older cars can no longer meet it?
Not every 3-5 years, that's for sure.
When was the last time you took your five-year-old car to the shop only to be told that no one supports that old model anymore and you'll have to buy a new one? :huh
They change the inspection... and you have to meet it every year. Cars have been around way longer than your computer. If you have a car that does not meet the minimums then your SOL.
They do not soften the laws so you can drive your 50 year old smoker to the store.
-
I am NOT I repeat NOT buying a new computer for the new update.
who said anything about a new computer?
were just talking ram and maybe a video card....
-
Cars could get 10 times as fast as they do now and the minimum and maximum speeds on highways would change very little. And a street-legal car that could go 400 mph would be wasting all that power capacity because the driver has no practical use for it.
You fail at analogy.
wrong cars is SO MUCH DIFFERENT than electronics, cars are mechanical devices binded by the laws of physics and friction, games and computer are not, they are elctronic components putting together code and displaying it on a monitor, thats it. And all technology is doing is putting more code in and putting it out faster than the one before and that my friend is a whole lot easier than trying to figure out how to make a car go twice as fast every year and not expect wear and tear more often. Your car analogy fails. Thank you.
-
See Rule #6
-
My 3.75 year old computer runs the beta just fine at max detail.
-
who said anything about a new computer?
were just talking ram and maybe a video card....
Me thinks that a lot of the guys who are griping about "a new computer" are individuals who need some instruction on computers to begin with....
Things like RAM, Video Card, Processor have no meaning to these people.. All that stuff in that big heavy cereal box looking thing with the wires hanging out was $2000.00
from Dell 8 years ago and they're still probably paying on it.. It's probably never once been reformatted and is practically a semi-solid mass of dust inside.. Any fan in the thing
probably quit working years ago, but keeps their feet nice and toasty warm in the winter.. They're possibly still running Windows ME...lmao
I can only imagine...
In all seriousness, they really need some help in how to upgrade or build inexpensively....
-
My 3.75 year old computer runs the beta just fine at max detail.
My auxiliary system is almost 5 years old and does fine! Not sure what all the fuss is all about.. I bet 95% of systems playing the current version could play the beta as well....
-
If only 95% will run the release, then things would not be going as we plan.
HiTech
-
that's why we love you guys :D
-
If only 95% will run the release, then things would not be going as we plan.
HiTech
:aok
-
My 3.75 year old computer runs the beta just fine at max detail.
Case and point! This will not hurt that many people! The only people it Will hurt are the people still gaming on they're Great Grandfathers Type writer. :lol
P.S. When did this post become about Cars we were just using it as an example. And computers are still bound by the laws of physics there just bound by them in the same way!
There should be no more debate for this ....... It's a good change! :aok
-
The same whines were spoken when AH2 was in Beta. It is BETA, things will be fleshed out before BETA is RELEASED as the new product from HTC.
-
If only 95% will run the release, then things would not be going as we plan.
HiTech
I was figuring 95% was the low side...
Obviously you guys are committed to 100%....
Works for me! :rock