Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Saxman on July 11, 2009, 09:59:02 AM
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The Japanese plane set without a doubt is one of the most neglected in the game.
DESPERATELY Needed:
Ki-43 (PRIORITY AIRCRAFT!)
G4M (PRIORITY AIRCRAFT!)
Ki-21
Ki-27
A5M
D4Y
B6N
Would like, but not critical:
G3M
Ki-44
Ki-45
J2M
N1K2 (we have the N1K2-J)
A6M3 Models 32 and 22 (Model 22 would be prefered, but I could see the clipped-wing Model 32 because it would offer something distinctive from the A6M2 and A6M5)
Ki-100
B7A (actually faster and more maneuverable than the Zero. Small production numbers could make it a rare perk choice for the Japanese set)
Ki-48
Ki-30
Ki-49
P1Y
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+1 :aok
Our Japanese plane set is nothing to boast about...
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The Russian planeset is gimp also.
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I'm with you 100% Sax. I REALLY hope we get more Japanese A/C in the near future. There should be an update focused on just Japanese planes to really take a chunk out of your list there.
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Saxman,
There was no N1K2.
There is the N1K1, which was a float plane fighter, that is what the "N" in the name means.
There is the N1K1-J, which was the modified land based interceptor based on the previous float plane fighter. "J" was the letter code for a land based interceptor as in the J2M 'Jack'. In the case of the N1K1-J it is added on as a "-J" and the name means a float plane fighter modified to be a land based interceptor.
Lastly there is the N1K2-J which we have.
I am guessing you were suggesting that we get the N1K1-J, of which a bit more than 1000 were built.
EDIT:
I will add a note that the changes from the N1K1-J to the N1K2-J were so extensive that they are essentially different aircraft. The wing was moved from midwing to low wing so that the complex, fragile telescopiong landing gear could be replaced with basic landing gear, the tail was completely redesigned, the cowl machineguns were removed, the ammo bins in the wings were changed to be an integral part of the wing in order to greatly enlarge its ammunition capacity. There was a reduction of about 50% in the number of parts used to make the N1K2-J compared to the N1K1-J. I don't recall reading anything about automatic combat flaps on the N1K1 or N1K1-J, but I could be mistaken about that.
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KI-84lb should be relativley easy to add. :rock
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Im despertly trying to learn how to do repaints for aircraft skins :(
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I'd also put the Ki-44 and J2M way above the Ki-27 or A5M in priority.
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I'd also put the Ki-44 and J2M way above the Ki-27 or A5M in priority.
Karnak,
I'd take two birds that could open up a LOT of scenario options for the China-Burma-India theater any day. While I'll grant you an early variant of the Ki-44 would be useful, (keep in mind: the heavy cannon-armed IIc's were all deployed to the defense of Tokyo) the J2M didn't see combat until 1944. And yes, I meant the N1K1-J.
Kazaa,
At least Eastern Front scenarios can sub in Lend/Lease P-40s, P-39s, Hurricanes, ETC. to fill the holes in the Russian set. There ARE no legitimate substitutes for Japan. We have TONYs filling in for D4Ys in the Phillippine Sea FSO this month. :huh
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The lack of bombers in both the Jap and Ruskie plane set is kinda sad actually.
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Truth be tolled. I'd like to see some Japanese fighters and some Russian bombers. Both countries had great aircraft. The IL-4 is a beauty.
(http://www.world-war-2-planes.com/images/Ilyushin-IL-4.jpg)
They made well over 5,000 of these. Yes, it is the IL-4.
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Saxman,
For fighters, the Ki-43 stands heads and shoulders above the rest in terms of need and utility.
My choice for the Ki-44 would be a quad 12.7mm armed Ki-44-IIb.
Problem with the Ki-27 and A5M is that they were withdrawn so early that there aren't many scenarios for them.
Another fighter you left out of your list was an earlier version of the Ki-61-I. The one we have is from 1944.
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The plane-set that is most lacking is that of the ITALIANS. The Japanese set has some serious holes in it for certain; but not like the Italian set does. The VVS set is a distant third. Until the aforementioned set that I think is most lacking is added to, AH will not be as egalitarian as it could be.
Thank you for your attention.
ps. Pffft on the French lest anyone think I was un-aware of their state in AH. :D
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The plane-set that is most lacking is that of the ITALIANS. The Japanese set has some serious holes in it for certain; but not like the Italian set does. The VVS set is a distant third. Until the aforementioned set that I think is most lacking is added to, AH will not be as egalitarian as it could be.
Thank you for your attention.
ps. Pffft on the French lest anyone think I was un-aware of their state in AH. :D
The thing about the Italian set is that the Regia Aeronautica had a comparatively small impact on the war, and an even smaller positive impact (positive for the Axis at least). Even in the Mediterranean Theater the majority of work was done by the Luftwaffe. The RA is certainly under- represented, but not any more than the Luftwaffe in proportion to its effect on the war, IMO. As far as I'm concerned with a CR 42, G.50 BR.20 and SM79 for the RA and the He 111, Ju 52, Do 217 and Me 410 for the Luftwaffe the western Axis powers would be very well represented (about as well as they need to be for a long time) compared to the rest of the sets in the game.
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The plane-set that is most lacking is that of the ITALIANS. The Japanese set has some serious holes in it for certain; but not like the Italian set does. The VVS set is a distant third. Until the aforementioned set that I think is most lacking is added to, AH will not be as egalitarian as it could be.
Thank you for your attention.
ps. Pffft on the French lest anyone think I was un-aware of their state in AH. :D
As is the case with the Russian set, there are plenty of gaps filled by foreign-produced aircraft (the Italians DID use quite a few German aircraft).
And making your text big and red doesn't give it any more weight.
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In proportion to their effect on the war, the Italians have better representation than the Japanese or Russians do.
Also keep in mind that Italian aircraft needed for gap filling are not the G.55 or Re.2005, but rather the C.200, RR.42 and SM.79-II.
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We dont need "every" bomber that ever flew in the war but i think we need at least 3 or 4 for balance PLUS a new perk bomber.
I realize this cant be accomplished in one update but maybe over the course of a year?
Thing is were getting two early war fighters that had very limited impact in the war and that impact, pretty much, only on one lonely Northern front. Meanwhiles bombers that had huge footprints in the war, 111s, Bettys, PE-2s, TU-2s, and another perk bomber have been largely neglected.
We need new bombers pure and simple. And we need the Jap, Ruskie, German, Italian, sets addressed. Plus a Yank perk bomber.
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And making your text big and red doesn't give it any more weight.
Just making sure that the ITALIANS don't get short-shrift....again. Besides, I like red & I like big. :devil
In proportion to their effect on the war, the Italians have better representation than the Japanese or Russians do.
Also keep in mind that Italian aircraft needed for gap filling are not the G.55 or Re.2005, but rather the C.200, RR.42 and SM.79-II.
Since when is "in proportion to their effect on the war..." a consideration for inclusion in AH? They were 1/3 of the Axis "major" players. Also I never asked for the G.55 or R.2005; the G.50 & R.2002 are good enough & the SM.79 would be wonderful to have; and if we got the CR.42, by gawd that would be amazing to have a bi-plane at last! :x
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They were 1/3rd of the Axis in only the most simplistic way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it would be to say they were about as effective for the Axis as the Chinese were for the Allies. The Axis nations that fought the lions share of the war and carried the costs of the war were, by far, Germany and Japan.
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The Japanese plane set without a doubt is one of the most neglected in the game.
DESPERATELY Needed:
Ki-43 (PRIORITY AIRCRAFT!)
G4M (PRIORITY AIRCRAFT!)
Ki-21
Ki-27
A5M
D4Y
B6N
Would like, but not critical:
G3M
Ki-44
Ki-45
J2M
N1K2 (we have the N1K2-J)
A6M3 Models 32 and 22 (Model 22 would be prefered, but I could see the clipped-wing Model 32 because it would offer something distinctive from the A6M2 and A6M5)
Ki-100
B7A (actually faster and more maneuverable than the Zero. Small production numbers could make it a rare perk choice for the Japanese set)
Ki-48
Ki-30
Ki-49
P1Y
We just don't need those. I'm sorry. You can't honestly tell me a Ki-49, Ki-30, Ki-48, etc is desperately needed in AH. These are planes that you really need to dig up when researching the war, whereas there are some more well known aircraft that are no brainers when it comes to being added
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Read my post more carefully, Dave. I said they'd be NICE to have, but NOT critical.
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Read my post more carefully, Dave. I said they'd be NICE to have, but NOT critical.
The same goes for them too.
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The same goes for them too.
Would you mind explaining to me then why the Ki-43 and G4M aren't needed? Do you think the only planes we need are the latest American or German late-war uber rides, Or is the only part of the war worth remembering the ETO/MTO?
There's an entire OTHER theater of the conflict which is HORRENDOUSLY represented and needs attention BADLY. Sorry if it doesn't fit your desire for yet ANOTHER perked monster, but there's more to this game than the Main Arenas.
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As is the case with the Russian set, there are plenty of gaps filled by foreign-produced aircraft (the Italians DID use quite a few German aircraft).
This is a good point with the Regia Aeronautica and especially the Aeronautica Nazionale Repubblicana, saying that using mostly American aircraft to represent the VVS from 1941-1944 is a pretty weak argument. Sure, the aircraft were in use, but they didn't come anywhere near the numbers of domestic Soviet aircraft in VVS service... going off of memory, I think something like one in ten aircraft in service with the VVS was lend lease. So we have one of the (or the?) largest air force in the world, 90% of which is represented by 5 (soon to be 6) single-engined aircraft, while the other 10% is represented by... what, almost 10 aircraft? :rolleyes:
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This is a good point with the Regia Aeronautica and especially the Aeronautica Nazionale Repubblicana, saying that using mostly American aircraft to represent the VVS from 1941-1944 is a pretty weak argument. Sure, the aircraft were in use, but they didn't come anywhere near the numbers of domestic Soviet aircraft in VVS service... going off of memory, I think something like one in ten aircraft in service with the VVS was lend lease. So we have one of the (or the?) largest air force in the world, 90% of which is represented by 5 (soon to be 6) single-engined aircraft, while the other 10% is represented by... what, almost 10 aircraft? :rolleyes:
The point still stands that regardless of the percentages, there ARE legitimate AND historical substitutes to use for the VVS where needed. The Japanese have none.
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I agree 100% with Sax, PTO Japanese setups needs some major holes filled in for FSO and AVA.
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Well, again, the KI-43 had a very large presence in the war. Most of all in the EW where the Allies had a lot of problems with it. There were almost 6,000 Oscars produced, the later varients were fairly fast, manueverable, had long range, and I cant remember if they were ever fitted with cannon or not.
I'd bet they accounted for more then their share of kills against the Allies. Count me in as a "yes" for the KI-43. Its far to important an aircraft to leave out of Aces High. :salute
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Only very few Ki-43-IIIs with two 20mm Ho-5 cannons were built, very late in the war. The most common, Ki-43-IIs, were all armed with two 12.7mm Ho-103 machine guns. The Ki-43-Ia was armed with two 7.7mm Type 80 machine guns, the Ki-43-Ib with one 7.7mm Type 80 and one 12.7mm Ho-103 and the Ki-43-Ic with two 12.7mm Ho-103s.
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Only very few Ki-43-IIIs with two 20mm Ho-5 cannons were built, very late in the war. The most common, Ki-43-IIs, were all armed with two 12.7mm Ho-103 machine guns. The Ki-43-Ia was armed with two 7.7mm Type 80 machine guns, the Ki-43-Ib with one 7.7mm Type 80 and one 12.7mm Ho-103 and the Ki-43-Ic with two 12.7mm Ho-103s.
Maybe to give us a good representation the Japanese plane set should be expanded to:
Fighters
A6M2 Model 21
A6M3 Model 32 Note: I went with the clip-winged Model 32 as it would be a definite change from the other models
A6M5 Model 52
A6M6c Model 53
Ki-43-Ia
Ki-43-IIb
Ki-43-IIIb (mild perk to reflect limited numbers?)
A5M4
Ki-27b
Ki-84-Ia
Ki-84-Ib
N1K1-J
N1K2-J
Ki-61-I-Hei
Ki-61-I-Tei
Ki-61-II-KAIa
Ki-100-I-Ko
Ki-45 KAIa
Ki-45 KAIc
Ki-44Ia
Ki-44IIc
J2M3a Model 21A
J2M5a Model 33A
Level Bombers
G3M2 Model 21
G4M1 Model 11
G4M2 Model 22
G4M3 Model 34
Ki-21-IIa
Dive/Torpedo
D3A1 Model 11
D3A2 Model 22
D4Y2a KAI Model 22A
B5N1-K
B6N2a Model 12A
B7A2 (mild perk?)
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Sooo many numbers my head is swimming :rolleyes:
No wonder americans just named them things like "Oscar" or "George" or "Betty" its alot easier that way LOL
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I'd think if we see an increase in Japanese rides we might see more dedicated IJN and IJAA squads in game. Would make some fun fights for the Naval and Marine squads.
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Saxman,
I am not sure the G4M3 saw combat and the G4M1 and G4M2 are similar enough that just the G4M2 could work for both.
I would like to see the P1Y1 at some point, though definately a lower priority than the G4M2. More than 1000 were built.
Sooo many numbers my head is swimming :rolleyes:
No wonder americans just named them things like "Oscar" or "George" or "Betty" its alot easier that way LOL
Actually, the IJN naming scheme is pretty much the same as the USN naming scheme.
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KI-84lb should be relativley easy to add. :rock
I would agree. Should be easy to add. The -Ic as well
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Saxman,
I am not sure the G4M3 saw combat and the G4M1 and G4M2 are similar enough that just the G4M2 could work for both.
I would like to see the P1Y1 at some point, though definately a lower priority than the G4M2. More than 1000 were built.
Actually, the IJN naming scheme is pretty much the same as the USN naming scheme.
There's enough differences to warrant both the G4M1 and 2. The G4M2 added a 20mm cannon to the dorsal turret to go with the tail "stinger" and made a number of other changes. I believe some of the durability issues were addressed as well. There were 60 G4M3s produced and they did see combat, so definitely fits the "squadron strength" requirement. It would be PARTICULARLY nasty if we got the G4M3a, which had FOUR defensive 20mm cannon (two waist positions, dorsal turret, and the tail stinger)!
I looked at the P1Y1 when I made my original list, Looking at her she reminds me an awful lot of the Mosquito.
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Actually, the IJN naming scheme is pretty much the same as the USN naming scheme.
Yes, thats why we call our planes "jugs" "ponys" "lightnings" and "warhawks" :P
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Maybe to give us a good representation the Japanese plane set should be expanded to:
Fighters
A6M2 Model 21
A6M3 Model 32 Note: I went with the clip-winged Model 32 as it would be a definite change from the other models
A6M5 Model 52
A6M6c Model 53
Ki-43-Ia
Ki-43-IIb
Ki-43-IIIb (mild perk to reflect limited numbers?)
A5M4
Ki-27b
Ki-84-Ia
Ki-84-Ib
N1K1-J
N1K2-J
Ki-61-I-Hei
Ki-61-I-Tei
Ki-61-II-KAIa
Ki-100-I-Ko
Ki-45 KAIa
Ki-45 KAIc
Ki-44Ia
Ki-44IIc
J2M3a Model 21A
J2M5a Model 33A
Level Bombers
G3M2 Model 21
G4M1 Model 11
G4M2 Model 22
G4M3 Model 34
Ki-21-IIa
Dive/Torpedo
D3A1 Model 11
D3A2 Model 22
D4Y2a KAI Model 22A
B5N1-K
B6N2a Model 12A
B7A2 (mild perk?)
This is just taking the piss now.
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Actually, the IJN naming scheme is pretty much the same as the USN naming scheme.
Yes, thats why we call our planes "jugs" "ponys" "lightnings" and "warhawks" :P
Reading comprehension is your friend.
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This is just taking the piss now.
Bite me, Dave. Maybe you'd like to tell the class what YOU think is a worthwhile addition to the game?
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The Russian planeset is gimp also.
You can't really complain when the 3/4ths of the planes you DO have are among the best fighters in the game....
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You can't really complain when the 3/4ths of the planes you DO have are among the best fighters in the game....
You can when the only one that you have for 1941-1943 is among the worst.
Curious... 3/4s?
La 7
Yak 9U
OK... but...
Yak 9T
La 5FN
I 16
Looks more like 2/5...
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Bite me, Dave. Maybe you'd like to tell the class what YOU think is a worthwhile addition to the game?
Certainly. Beaufighter, A-26, He-111, and Ju-52 all have a higher place on my list than any Japanese aircraft.
You do realize that the Japanese plane set you just created is essentially bigger than the ENTIRE plane set we have in AH currently, right? (Maybe more around half to 3/4).
I would not oppose 1-2 Japanese aircraft (G4M would be fine), but they surely do not merit as many planes as you are proposing here. How would you like it if l said that we should have every single variant of every main American or European aircraft?
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Certainly. Beaufighter, A-26, He-111, and Ju-52 all have a higher place on my list than any Japanese aircraft.
You do realize that the Japanese plane set you just created is essentially bigger than the ENTIRE plane set we have in AH currently, right? (Maybe more around half to 3/4).
Closer to half then 3/4. Have a few more planes then it seems, we have 91 (give or take a few) Planes/GVs in game. 75 are planes and 16 are GVs, Saxman gave a list of 34 planes, Just 0.5 more then 1/2 of currently available. Just putting a small hopefully accurate 'fact' in. :)
I agree we don't need all of those Japanese planes (that is quite an impressively long list), but some of them wouldn't hurt, just like many other planes including your list. :)
This is before the Beta edition, so it does not include the I-16 and Brewster.
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You do realize that the Japanese plane set you just created is essentially bigger than the ENTIRE plane set we have in AH currently, right? (Maybe more around half to 3/4).
And you do realize that list is just a list of planes to pick from, not a list of what is needed.
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All for new Nip planes to light up. :D :aok
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Certainly. Beaufighter, A-26, He-111, and Ju-52 all have a higher place on my list than any Japanese aircraft.
You do realize that the Japanese plane set you just created is essentially bigger than the ENTIRE plane set we have in AH currently, right? (Maybe more around half to 3/4).
I would not oppose 1-2 Japanese aircraft (G4M would be fine), but they surely do not merit as many planes as you are proposing here. How would you like it if l said that we should have every single variant of every main American or European aircraft?
The Beaufighter and He-111 are needed, I'll give you that, as they'll both fill HUGE roles in scenarios.
HOWEVER, the A-26 is yet ANOTHER late-war American monster we don't have a pressing need for. It's not going to fill a role in the Mains that another aircraft doesn't already except for being a potential Perk ride. Its use in FSO/Scenarios/Snapshots would probably be limited as well. While the Ju-52 would be nice, it doesn't fill a role in the Main Arenas that the C-47 doesn't already and that's the ONLY place where it would really see usage. I've yet to fly in an FSO that utilized C-47s, and I don't recall seeing any scenario or snapshot setup involving them, either. And is base capture even ON in AvA? So the Ju-52 would be nice to have, but a German equivalent to the M8 would be far more useful for all facets of the game.
Also, just as an FYI there are 31 American aircraft currently in the game (32 if you count the Boston. If you want to stretch it and include the Brewster as well it will be 33 when the update comes out). Assuming HTC would add everything, the second list I posted above would bring the Japanese plane set to just above that. And sure, some of these could be trimmed. Like instead of the two Ki-44 variants I listed that could be handled with something as simple as a gun package option in the hangar (which if you include the P-39D's 20mm option, technically means we ALSO have the P-400. Our F4F-4 has a 4x .50cal package which technically makes her an F4F-3, bringing the American plane set up to "35").
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My "required" list for the Japanese reads thus:
A6M3
B6N2
D4Y
G4M2
Ki-43-I
Ki-43-II
Ki-44-II
Ki-61-Ia or Ki-61-Ib
N1K1-J
Added to that is my "would be really nice have" list:
J2M
Ki-21 or Ki-48
P1Y1
And my "wish the could be added" list:
B7A2
H8K2
Because the Japanese did the same Army/Navy split that we did, they fielded almost as many designs as we did.
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Reading comprehension is your friend.
Ha ha, you win this time Bert...
New list! Hellcat, Wildcat, devastator
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Because the Japanese did the same Army/Navy split that we did, they fielded almost as many designs as we did.
That's a pretty key distinction being missed. With the wider range of types used by the Japanese it makes sense that they WOULD have a larger plane set. Even just going by Karnak's list you're still looking at almost 20-25 aircraft.
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You can when the only one that you have for 1941-1943 is among the worst.
Curious... 3/4s?
La 7
Yak 9U
OK... but...
Yak 9T
La 5FN
I 16
Looks more like 2/5...
The La5 does what, close to 360 on the deck? While having good thrust/weight and being maneuverable? It is a better fighter plane in the typical low alt melee than every model in the USAAF lineup. Its good even in late-war. I forgot about the I-16...I'm not sure how that one is going to work out yet. Betcha its going to have a similar "market share" to Hurris and Zekes though and be far more annoying to fight than anyone gives it credit for.
Hey, but don't me wrong...I don't object to more planes, any planes!
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YOU GUYS ARE FORGETING ONE JAPENESE DIVE BOMBER!!!
D3a1 val :O ;)
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YOU GUYS ARE FORGETING ONE JAPENESE DIVE BOMBER!!!
D3a1 val :O ;)
We have that. Clipboard comprehension is your friend.
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whoops my bad i forgot :eek:
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I vote Ki-43 for next fighter!
Very heavily produced and very fun to fly in this game, I would think. It'd probably out turn a Zero. Many of them flew in the CBI as well, and as I recall, the CBI really has become a forgotten war.
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DESPERATELY Needed:
Ki-43 (PRIORITY AIRCRAFT!)
G4M (PRIORITY AIRCRAFT!)
Could not agree more with the priorities but I disagree with the term "neglected". Decisions had to be made, things must be maintained and we must be realistic. It's the price we must pay for having less mistakes in what is important: fligh models. But development continues. We have reasons to believe that, in due time, many more important models will arrive. And not only aircraft. Soon we will have the I-16 and the Brewster. Others will follow.
On the aircraft priority list I would add 2 bombers for the Russian VVS, the Pe-2 and the Il-4; 2 more to the Italian Reggia, the CR-42 and the SM-72 (or close); 4 for the French Armée de l'Air (this has to be done), the Curtiss-Hawk 75, the MS-406, the Potez 63-11 and the LeO 451; for the German Luftwaffe, the He111 and the Ju-52. I believe this would keep AH development team busy until the end of 2010...and the, there´s all the rest...Lucky guys, they have their jobs secured well until 2020...
<S> all and let's keep pushing for the less popular planes that were so important in the conflict that inspired this game.
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Sparow:
As I told Dave there's going to be almost nowhere that the Ju-52 will find usage to merit its addition ahead of almost ANY other aircraft. It WILL be a hangar queen in the Mains. While some Ju-52s were armed, it's almost 30mph SLOWER than the C-47 (if that's even possible) so it's going to be no less (if not MORE) vulnerable a target, guns (only a single dorsal 13mm and two waist 7.7mm's: a B-17 it ain't) or not. The "bomber" variant was a Spanish Civil War aircraft that saw only extremely limited use during the first few months of the war over Warsaw. And unlike other aircraft that would be superfluous in the mains but have uses elsewhere, there's NOWHERE in scenario-type play the Ju-52 has value. I've yet to fly in an FSO setup utilizing C-47s to begin with, much less have a place to use Ju-52s (can someone tell me if they were ever used in FSO?). The number of scenarios and shapshots that would find a use for it are likewise going to be limited if ANY, and are C-47s EVER available in AVA in the first place?
We're talking an absolute scraping the crud from UNDERNEATH the bottom-of-the-bucket addition. Every Japanese plane in my list will by FAR be a more valuable addition for ACTUAL usage than the Ju-52. The only real reason to add it is because "it was there."
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Sparow:
As I told Dave there's going to be almost nowhere that the Ju-52 will find usage to merit its addition ahead of almost ANY other aircraft. It WILL be a hangar queen in the Mains. While some Ju-52s were armed, it's almost 30mph SLOWER than the C-47 (if that's even possible) so it's going to be no less (if not MORE) vulnerable a target, guns (only a single dorsal 13mm and two waist 7.7mm's: a B-17 it ain't) or not. The "bomber" variant was a Spanish Civil War aircraft that saw only extremely limited use during the first few months of the war over Warsaw. And unlike other aircraft that would be superfluous in the mains but have uses elsewhere, there's NOWHERE in scenario-type play the Ju-52 has value. I've yet to fly in an FSO setup utilizing C-47s to begin with, much less have a place to use Ju-52s (can someone tell me if they were ever used in FSO?). The number of scenarios and shapshots that would find a use for it are likewise going to be limited if ANY, and are C-47s EVER available in AVA in the first place?
We're talking an absolute scraping the crud from UNDERNEATH the bottom-of-the-bucket addition. Every Japanese plane in my list will by FAR be a more valuable addition for ACTUAL usage than the Ju-52. The only real reason to add it is because "it was there."
You know SAX, if someone were to do a AXIS captured Dakota skin. That would really put the coffin lid on the Ju52.
Just a thought...
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YOU GUYS ARE FORGETING ONE JAPENESE DIVE BOMBER!!!
D3a1 val :O ;)
:eek:
Ki-43, G4M, and J2M are still the first priorities on my Japanese planeset list. As someone posted in another thread, a good ratio IMO is 4 early/mid war planes: 1 Late war plane added.
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You know SAX, if someone were to do a AXIS captured Dakota skin. That would really put the coffin lid on the Ju52.
Just a thought...
Too bad captured skins aren't allowed...
Although Japan DID build a version of their own (L2D) and we do have an IJAAF skin for it.
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Japanese planes neglected?? what bout us Italians, theres C-202 and C-205.. i think.. thats it?
-BigBOBCH
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Japanese planes neglected?? what bout us Italians, theres C-202 and C-205.. i think.. thats it?
-BigBOBCH
As has been said elsewhere, a large enough number of German aircraft were flown by the Italians--and the contribution of those designs to the war wasn't nearly as significant as the Germans or Japanese--that there's no immediate need for them in either the Mains or Scenario-type play. The Japanese completely lack legitimate substitutions like what the Italians have available with the German iron, (and to a lesser extent like the Russians with Lend/Lease) which makes the gaps in the set by FAR more glaring than the Italian set.
You can run a North African or MTO campaign focusing on the Regia Aeronautica and there's sufficient aircraft to accurately portray all the belligerents involved. This is NOT a case with the Pacific Theater. We don't have an early or mid-war Japanese level bomber. The only setups we have ALL the major aircraft for are the 1942 carrier battles (except the TBD Devastator for Coral Sea and Midway, which ALSO should be added). It's difficult to do anything in New Guinea or the Solomons because we're missing the Betty, A6M3 and Ki-43. We can't really do early or mid-war CBI because we don't have the Ki-43, Ki-44 and Ki-21 (the G3M, Ki-27 and A5M also factored into the early phase of the war). Bougainville and Rabaul are also difficult because those missing aircraft were also significantly involved.
Should more Italian designs be added? Sure! But when you have the main Axis power of an ENTIRE THEATER as poorly represented as Japan it becomes a priority. Imagine the Luftwaffe only being represented by the 109E and G6, 190D9, 110C, Ju-87 and Ju-88 and that pretty much covers what trying to do anything with the Japanese plane set.
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AMEN Sax!
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I'd call these "needed"...
G4M2 "Betty"
Ki-43-I and -II "Oscar"
B6N2 "Jill"
D4Y1 and D4Y3 "Judy"
and these "nice to have"...
Ki-27 "Nate"
A6M3 "Zero"
Ki-45 KAIb "Nick"
But that's just me putting in my own two quatloos here. ;)
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One way or another, the absence of two of Japan's most important aircraft--the G4M and Ki-43--is just about inexcusable.
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The Japanese plane set without a doubt is one of the most neglected in the game.
DESPERATELY Needed:
Ki-43 (PRIORITY AIRCRAFT!)
G4M (PRIORITY AIRCRAFT!)
Ki-21
Ki-27
A5M
D4Y
B6N
Would like, but not critical:
G3M
Ki-44
Ki-45
J2M
N1K2 (we have the N1K2-J)
A6M3 Models 32 and 22 (Model 22 would be prefered, but I could see the clipped-wing Model 32 because it would offer something distinctive from the A6M2 and A6M5)
Ki-100
B7A (actually faster and more maneuverable than the Zero. Small production numbers could make it a rare perk choice for the Japanese set)
Ki-48
Ki-30
Ki-49
P1Y
^^ For President
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A36 please
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I really don't have a desire to see any of these hangar queens...
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I really don't have a desire to see any of these hangar queens...
Who says they would be used for the Late War Arenas? They would be quite useful in FSO and the Scenarios.
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Crawl out of the DA sometime and you'll be surprised to find out there's more to the game than picking guys off in a Tempest and running with your tail between your legs at the first sight of a co-alt con.
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"running with your tail between your legs"
<shrug> Aint that SOP by those who dwell in the Diper Arena.
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Ooops. I'll 13,323rd Sax's list!
More, more, more!
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The Soviet Mig-3 would be a nice single seat fighter to see in the game.
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Who says they would be used for the Late War Arenas? They would be quite useful in FSO and the Scenarios.
Thats kind of the point for me, I don't play FSO or scenarios so that would pretty much be why I don't really care to see any of these planes added.
Crawl out of the DA sometime and you'll be surprised to find out there's more to the game than picking guys off in a Tempest and running with your tail between your legs at the first sight of a co-alt con.
I've actually never been to the furball portion of the DA, I play the MA's, and generally don't pick in a tempest when I do...Nice to see you assume though. :aok
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Thats kind of the point for me, I don't play FSO or scenarios so that would pretty much be why I don't really care to see any of these planes added.
There's a lot more people than you, however, that DO. I guess you're going to tell us that the Brewster and I-16 were wastes of time, as well?
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There's a lot more people than you, however, that DO. I guess you're going to tell us that the Brewster and I-16 were wastes of time, as well?
I would guess that the majority of AH players don't participate in anything other than the Late War MA's, it's not just me. And no, while I wouldn't say they were wastes of time per se, I would of chose different aircraft to add, as I'm sure most of everyone would have.
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Let me guess? More late-war super rides that saw maybe a week of combat, if that?
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I would guess that the majority of AH players don't participate in anything other than the Late War MA's, it's not just me. And no, while I wouldn't say they were wastes of time per se, I would of chose different aircraft to add, as I'm sure most of everyone would have.
Funny, I would have guessed the opposite, with Friday Squad Operations and the Scenarios being the biggest draw. Also, the B-239 is an Early War bird, so why does it see so much use?
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I'd call these "needed"...
G4M2 "Betty"
Ki-43-I and -II "Oscar"
B6N2 "Jill"
D4Y1 and D4Y3 "Judy"
and these "nice to have"...
Ki-27 "Nate"
A6M3 "Zero"
Ki-45 KAIb "Nick"
I agree Bino, no need for 20+ more Japanese planes immediately, but these are badly needed. These 7, in about that order (although I'd say give us the Oscar first), and then concentrate on the Russian planes and then some additional Italian planes.
:aok
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Funny, I would have guessed the opposite, with Friday Squad Operations and the Scenarios being the biggest draw. Also, the B-239 is an Early War bird, so why does it see so much use?
Because it's a Finnish FM2 with all the ballast out the window. (Figuratively speaking.) It's fairly quick for an EW bird, and it out-turns almost everything on the list right now. Plus, it's new. That's something we haven't seen in a while as it is.
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There's a lot more people than you, however, that DO. I guess you're going to tell us that the Brewster and I-16 were wastes of time, as well?
Though we don't normally always see it the same way...I would have to say that I agree with Saxman on almost all of the points he has made. Heck sometimes I think that the only reason I have stayed around this long is for the Special Events. Now most if not all of the planes I want to see added are for the Special Events. Rock on Saxman and lets get some more Japanese planes in here.
Here are my birds I would like to see for Special Events reasons
A6M3
G4M2
D4Y's of some mark
Ki-21
Here are the two that I would like to fly for MA reasons
Ki-84Ib
Ki-100
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Let me guess? More late-war super rides that saw maybe a week of combat, if that?
You like to assume alot. I'm sorry someone disagreeing with you is such an earth shattering event that you need to get all pissy. Oh well, carry on.
Funny, I would have guessed the opposite, with Friday Squad Operations and the Scenarios being the biggest draw. Also, the B-239 is an Early War bird, so why does it see so much use?
There are easily more players who don't play special events and FSO than ones who do. Secondly, the Brewster is barely 2 weeks old, of course it's going to see alot of use being as how it's so new. Wait 6 months and you won't see them very often, probably on the same level as the F4F and FM2.
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You like to assume alot. I'm sorry someone disagreeing with you is such an earth shattering event that you need to get all pissy. Oh well, carry on.
Well when you come into a thread like this spouting off about "I don't want to see those Hangar Queens!" then guess what people are GOING to think? As I asked someone earlier in this thread, would you like to share with the class what YOU think is a worthwhile addition to the game?
Put up or shut up.
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Italian and Russian sets, sure, I'd love to see more.
I don't fly Japanese craft unless I have to... For personal reasons....... But if the rest of you agree then I'll go with it too.
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Sparow:
As I told Dave there's going to be almost nowhere that the Ju-52 will find usage to merit its addition ahead of almost ANY other aircraft. It WILL be a hangar queen in the Mains. While some Ju-52s were armed, it's almost 30mph SLOWER than the C-47 (if that's even possible) so it's going to be no less (if not MORE) vulnerable a target, guns (only a single dorsal 13mm and two waist 7.7mm's: a B-17 it ain't) or not. The "bomber" variant was a Spanish Civil War aircraft that saw only extremely limited use during the first few months of the war over Warsaw. And unlike other aircraft that would be superfluous in the mains but have uses elsewhere, there's NOWHERE in scenario-type play the Ju-52 has value. I've yet to fly in an FSO setup utilizing C-47s to begin with, much less have a place to use Ju-52s (can someone tell me if they were ever used in FSO?). The number of scenarios and shapshots that would find a use for it are likewise going to be limited if ANY, and are C-47s EVER available in AVA in the first place?
We're talking an absolute scraping the crud from UNDERNEATH the bottom-of-the-bucket addition. Every Japanese plane in my list will by FAR be a more valuable addition for ACTUAL usage than the Ju-52. The only real reason to add it is because "it was there."
Hi Saxman,
In fact, I agree, partially, with your argument. The JU-52, scenario speaking, would only be of use for, let me see... for Crete, MTO, Stalingrad... As a troop carrier for any MA would be a sitting duck (like the C-47). In AvA could have some use. C-47's have been used. But I firmly believe that the He-111 would be a much more important adition in the short term. Like the G4M. Two prioritary models, even more than many fighters mentioned.
OTOH, it would be simpler to fill the gaps on almost sufficiently complete planesets than to leave some half filled and others dry... I mean, only a couple of models could "close" the German, American and British planesets. A good choice of a fighter and a bomber could make the Japanese and Soviet setups acceptable. Maybe even the Italian. How on earth will you model any MTO setup without, at least, the Sparviero? What is totally empty is the French planeset. But I understand that would be used only for early war setups and some MTO setups. I concede that the French models should come last in the list, but they should be present, one day.
We all want the same... The most complete planeset possible. We only propose diferent shortcuts to get there...
<Salute>
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I agree that the Japanese plane set has serious holes that should be filled, but I also can't help but think it's about time the He-111 shows up. With the regularity of the BoB scenario, that's a bird we really "need" (and by 2010, I'm guessing).
I understand that bombers are more time-consuming to implement, but I don't think an update of the following planes would be unreasonable:
Betty
He-111
If they wanted to really spoil us they could throw in the Oscar as well. I think those three planes would be an update that would get many scenario/FSO junkies very excited :)