Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Heretic on July 25, 2009, 07:15:33 AM

Title: Gaming the game
Post by: Heretic on July 25, 2009, 07:15:33 AM
Since Skuzzy said he will be making adjustments in the next patch I was wondering if this will be looked at as well.

Taking a M3,LVT,or Skdz, with troops to a maproom. Release troops,end sortie,up a C47 at a friendly field and then wait till maproom is captured and get a bomber capture.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Lusche on July 25, 2009, 07:24:30 AM
Is the same. Troops are just another kind of "ords". That should stop working too.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Skuzzy on July 25, 2009, 07:47:09 AM
I am not one of the developers.  I am just a messenger boy.  HiTech, Pyro, Sudz, Superfly, and Waffle do all the development work for the game.

It would have to be confirmed with HiTech, but I believe Lusche is correct.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Heretic on July 25, 2009, 07:51:06 AM
Thanks for the quick response fellas.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Anaxogoras on July 25, 2009, 08:24:49 AM
If you want to pick on field captures, look at the category in "attack."
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: RipChord929 on July 25, 2009, 08:30:47 AM
I always wondered how ppl got field captures in attack mode, goofy stuff man, lol!!!
Good riddance to all of that silly gamey crap...

RC
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: texastc316 on July 25, 2009, 08:31:18 AM
meat bombs are ords too
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: A8TOOL on July 25, 2009, 12:55:11 PM
I always wondered why there was a option to get a capture in attack mode. The only way to get a capture in attack mode is to drop troops, end sortie and then sit on the runway in a plane thats set in attack mode until you get a capture mesg.

The capture will go to your squad and not you yourself and can increase overall squad rank dramatically. What was the reason for putting that in?


Another thing I just found out is that some of the best sticks in the game use the MAGIC K KEY to turn faster and tighter than anyone else plus helps you avoid auguring into the ground at high speed due to compression. Seems the K key over rules why we have compression in the first place.

Although I wish I knew about it before I left the game and probably would have used it, I think it should be disabled. It's an unfair, game the game type advantage for those who know how to use it.



Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: A8TOOL on July 25, 2009, 01:21:09 PM
Another Game The Game cheat is how you can move your sight around to take shots. Most guys with the trackIR can figure it out but Adonia had it down pat. I'm not so sure he had trackIR though. When watching the films you'll need to view in "use recorded views"

You'll notice how he is able to move in circles  around his plane. Most of his shots are taken out of plane too...er head out the window anyway  hehe.


http://download112.mediafire.com/zw2lnnajzddg/21j42zogd2a/film2.ahf


EDITED IN:The text Buffer is hilarious too

Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: TEShaw on July 25, 2009, 01:22:06 PM
There
Really
Is no
Magic
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Anaxogoras on July 25, 2009, 01:32:31 PM
Elevator trim is an unfair advantage?
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Yenny on July 25, 2009, 01:34:39 PM
Another Game The Game cheat is how you can move your sight around to take shots. Most guys with the trackIR can figure it out but Adonia had it down pat. I'm not so sure he had trackIR though. When watching the films you'll need to view in "use recorded views"

You'll notice how he is able to move in circles  around his plane. Most of his shots are taken out of plane too...er head out the window anyway  hehe.


http://download112.mediafire.com/zw2lnnajzddg/21j42zogd2a/film2.ahf


EDITED IN:The text Buffer is hilarious too



What you talkin about willy, that's an F-18 using sidewinder for kills
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: mensa180 on July 25, 2009, 01:36:17 PM
Elevator trim does not make you turn tighter.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Yenny on July 25, 2009, 01:37:21 PM
Elevator trim does not make you turn tighter.

However, for the bnzmer. It helps w/ avoidin the ground when you're hitting near mach 1 and your plane shutter too much for you to control xD
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Twizzty on July 25, 2009, 01:49:25 PM
Manual trim is not cheating, and neither is moving your head around in the cockpit.

Carry on!
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: A8TOOL on July 25, 2009, 01:58:54 PM
Elevator trim is an unfair advantage?

If you don't know to use it is. I'm not online anymore so I was only able to do some offline testing. I've flown in this game for a long time and know what things look and feel like.  I set the K key to my stick and I can tell you this, it made a big difference, especially in the 38,... which I never flew well in anyway.

If I knew about it I would have used it and I would be fighting to keep it too I suppose. Realistically though, did WWll pilots really use it for what it's used here in this game?

I'd like to give it another shot...maybe next year when and if I return.
Using that key does give advantages.


Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: AWwrgwy on July 25, 2009, 02:00:41 PM
Another Game The Game cheat is how you can move your sight around to take shots. Most guys with the trackIR can figure it out but Adonia had it down pat. I'm not so sure he had trackIR though. When watching the films you'll need to view in "use recorded views"

You'll notice how he is able to move in circles  around his plane. Most of his shots are taken out of plane too...er head out the window anyway  hehe.


http://download112.mediafire.com/zw2lnnajzddg/21j42zogd2a/film2.ahf


EDITED IN:The text Buffer is hilarious too



Head position in films does not necessarily reflect the head position f the filmer as the head positions, as far as where the head is saved, is saved on the viewers computer.

For example, I can use F10 to save head positions while watching a film and if the head position is different in the film it may appear outside the cockpit or down in the dash, etc.


You know the Mark Twain quote about keeping your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about T00L?

wrongway
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Twizzty on July 25, 2009, 02:08:52 PM
did WWll pilots really use it for what it's used here in this game?

Do you think WWII polits had "Combat Trim"

You know the Mark Twain quote about keeping your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about T00L?

 :rofl
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Motherland on July 25, 2009, 02:17:26 PM
Another Game The Game cheat is how you can move your sight around to take shots. Most guys with the trackIR can figure it out but Adonia had it down pat. I'm not so sure he had trackIR though. When watching the films you'll need to view in "use recorded views"

You'll notice how he is able to move in circles  around his plane. Most of his shots are taken out of plane too...er head out the window anyway  hehe.


http://download112.mediafire.com/zw2lnnajzddg/21j42zogd2a/film2.ahf


EDITED IN:The text Buffer is hilarious too


The film viewer only records inputs, not what actually happens in the game. So when Adonai shifted his head view up and in game it was stopped, he was still shifting it up (for whatever reason, probably out of reflex or something) but it couldn't move out any farther in game because... well, you can't, the game stops you to simulate what is possible with head movement. The film viewer does NOT do this however, because.... it makes it more convenient for viewing films... there's no point in it. So it seems like he's shifting his head out, as that's how it looks on the viewer, but he's actually not. Furthermore, he can't be using TIR because, as mentioned earlier, the Film Viewer only uses the inputs that can be mapped to a keyboard/hat switch for recorded views.

And, again, there's no gamey advantage to TIR, which was explained to you in the last thread you brought it up in but you ignored.




And trim doesn't give any unfair advantage, either, any advantage you gain is placebo.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Lusche on July 25, 2009, 03:10:09 PM
Elevator trim is an unfair advantage?

If you don't know to use it is.

With that definition, disabling stall limiter is gaining an unfair advantage too, as well as setting up your views and saving them with F10 to get a better view on your six.

Under normal flight conditions, using manual trim doesn't give you and advantage. It's getting important for example when controls are getting stiff in a 109. But that's what the trim is for, it's not an "unfair advantage"
Two Spits turning at 200mph, 50%fuel and coalt will have the same minimum turn radius, even if one is using manual and one is using combat trim.

Head position in films does not necessarily reflect the head position f the filmer as the head positions, as far as where the head is saved, is saved on the viewers computer.

Exactly. It's YOUR head position, not the guys one that recorded the movie.

Another Game The Game cheat is how you can move your sight around to take shots. Most guys with the trackIR can figure it out but Adonia had it down pat. I'm not so sure he had trackIR though.

You still don't have a TrackIr I guess?
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Dadsguns on July 25, 2009, 03:15:08 PM
There
Really
Is no
Magic


 :rofl
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: grizz441 on July 25, 2009, 03:20:26 PM
Another Game The Game cheat is how you can move your sight around to take shots. Most guys with the trackIR can figure it out but Adonia had it down pat. I'm not so sure he had trackIR though. When watching the films you'll need to view in "use recorded views"

You'll notice how he is able to move in circles  around his plane. Most of his shots are taken out of plane too...er head out the window anyway  hehe.


http://download112.mediafire.com/zw2lnnajzddg/21j42zogd2a/film2.ahf


EDITED IN:The text Buffer is hilarious too



That's just the film viewer A8Tool.  Granted he is shifting his view from side to side to see better but for whatever reason sometimes the film viewer records those view shifts as out of the plane.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: A8TOOL on July 25, 2009, 03:25:57 PM

And, again, there's no gamey advantage to TIR, which was explained to you in the last thread you brought it up in but you ignored.




And trim doesn't give any unfair advantage, either, any advantage you gain is placebo.

The last time I brought this up people wanted the film I viewed on youtube or where ever it was that I seen months prior to making that post. I could not find it again but it clearly showed how someone was able to hack TIR for this game. I also knew i had a few of adonias films somewhere but could not find them either. There were about 5 of them, this is the only one I could find and was found by mistake just today...I did not make it up.  Theres another missing one that even more clearly shows what you can do in respect to views but again is gone,.. they were old films and i'm just not sure what happened to them.

I kind of remember seeing this film slightly differently come to think of it. It's possible the viewer has changed since early 2008. Either way, the films I watched showed the sight moving about the cockpit and out of the window.  Well not exactly the actual sight out of the window but the view. Adonia himself said he used to put marks on his screen to use as a sight and he's not the first to do that. The film clearly shows his head leaving the cockpit and circling around it many times.

Seems like a lot of trouble to go through to prove what i seen and believe to be true. If I could find just one other person, I might not look like such a crazy liar....that is what your all calling me isn't it.

I realize the sight SHOULD only be able to move in the constraints of the cockpit window as the creators made it but it's a computer game, and like many, has holes.

People will do anything to game the game and using the K key to fly with is also part of gaming the game.

Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: mensa180 on July 25, 2009, 03:28:47 PM
LOL.  The K key doesn't do anything to make you fly better, yes, even in the 38.  Having the K key held down is more of a hindrance.  Please hitech come and smack this guy down.

Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Motherland on July 25, 2009, 03:31:48 PM
I realize the sight SHOULD only be able to move in the constraints of the cockpit window as the creators made it but it's a computer game, and like many, has holes.
No, it doesn't have 'holes', only the film viewer does. It's always worked this way. You can't do it in game. The film viewer doesn't record what is happening in game, it only interprets the inputs. This is why it's such a useful tool.

You can't shift your head outside of the cockpit except for on some of the very old models that need  updated (like the rear seat of the 110), and even then it's only like an inch or so. Not on the 109 or whatever adonai was flying. It's a film viewer thing.

You don't gain any advantage by using TIR. In fact, with TIR you lose the ability to use the 'mouse hold' or 'put marks on your screen' trick.

Seems like a lot of trouble to go through to prove what i seen and believe to be true. If I could find just one other person, I might not look like such a crazy liar....that is what your all calling me isn't it.
Whether you're lying or misinterpreting what you saw doesn't matter, you're spreading false rumors and people will debunk them to stop other people from falling for them.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: A8TOOL on July 25, 2009, 03:42:04 PM

Exactly. It's YOUR head position, not the guys one that recorded the movie.

You still don't have a TrackIr I guess?

I didn't make the film, adonia did and no, ...I don't have trackIR but would be nice. :aok


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Humm, found that post of me complaining (in a way) about trackIR. I wish I had it but my end point was.. It could be hacked.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,262765.msg3267048.html#msg3267048
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: The Fugitive on July 25, 2009, 03:48:20 PM
Tool, its good that your taking a break. It seems you have some real pent up anger. I think there have been a number of very good explanation as to why it "looks" like the players head moves outside the plane, while in the game it DOES NOT do so. Your refusing to believe this and pushing other falsehoods will do nothing more than get you in trouble.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Belial on July 25, 2009, 05:03:06 PM
Game the game= Anything to do with bombing and bailing to gain something, from perks to feilds captures.  Disabling enemy skins so the default tank colors show up.  Turning your tank diagonal to add in more equations to the damage model.  Using the invisible solid objects to glitch inside and out of when you spawn.


Just a few off the top of my head.   
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Lusche on July 25, 2009, 05:07:55 PM
Turning your tank diagonal to add in more equations to the damage model. 

A real world tactic = gaming the game ?
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: CAP1 on July 25, 2009, 05:12:29 PM
I always wondered why there was a option to get a capture in attack mode. The only way to get a capture in attack mode is to drop troops, end sortie and then sit on the runway in a plane thats set in attack mode until you get a capture mesg.

The capture will go to your squad and not you yourself and can increase overall squad rank dramatically. What was the reason for putting that in?


Another thing I just found out is that some of the best sticks in the game use the MAGIC K KEY to turn faster and tighter than anyone else plus helps you avoid auguring into the ground at high speed due to compression. Seems the K key over rules why we have compression in the first place.

Although I wish I knew about it before I left the game and probably would have used it, I think it should be disabled. It's an unfair, game the game type advantage for those who know how to use it.




isn't the k key the "up trim"?

Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: CAP1 on July 25, 2009, 05:15:32 PM
If you don't know to use it is. I'm not online anymore so I was only able to do some offline testing. I've flown in this game for a long time and know what things look and feel like.  I set the K key to my stick and I can tell you this, it made a big difference, especially in the 38,... which I never flew well in anyway.

If I knew about it I would have used it and I would be fighting to keep it too I suppose. Realistically though, did WWll pilots really use it for what it's used here in this game?

I'd like to give it another shot...maybe next year when and if I return.
Using that key does give advantages.




i've tried adjusting my trim during fights. i almost always have manual trim on, so i have elevator, rudder, and aielron trims all on my stick.

 adjusting the elevator up in a serious turnfight did nothing for me. werllllll....it DID make me have to re-trim when the fight got faster.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 25, 2009, 05:17:42 PM

Another thing I just found out is that some of the best sticks in the game use the MAGIC K KEY to turn faster and tighter than anyone else plus helps you avoid auguring into the ground at high speed due to compression. Seems the K key over rules why we have compression in the first place.


Are you serious?  It has been proven time and time again that using elevator trim to make your plane turn tighter and faster is nothing more than an AH urban legend.  Not only has it been proven without a shadow of a doubt, HiTech has even confirmed it doesn't work.  Stop propogating the myth.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: WWhiskey on July 25, 2009, 05:41:33 PM
  Turning your tank diagonal to add in more equations to the damage model. 


 lol by this standard, the soviets where in violation of the articles of war, for building tanks with sloping armor!
 it is always best not to show a strait or flat angle, to your enemy,in the real world and in the internet one! look it up in armor trainiing, U.S. army, F.M.  :noid
 one inch of armor becomes more like 2 inches when sloped or turned to a 45 % angle, i guess i just assumed everyone new this, maybe you should go put that in your , "this is how i use a gv", thread.
you must just be an internet tanker, no real world expireance what so ever, with actual combat or of any kind? :x
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Speed55 on July 25, 2009, 06:05:17 PM
Freakin cheaters, always using those dang flaps to turn tighter.   :noid
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: WWhiskey on July 25, 2009, 06:12:28 PM
Freakin cheaters, always using those dang flaps to turn tighter.   :noid
  :noid :noid :noid you dont even want to see what i was thinking about posting, good thing i know what baord i am on.  lol!
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: kilo2 on July 25, 2009, 06:13:15 PM
When the word hack is used in refrence to AH people freak out. I dont know if what tools talking about is happening now, but I am sure that there is someone out there hacking AH. Its no different than any other computer game.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Wreked on July 25, 2009, 06:15:08 PM
Freakin cheaters, always using those dang flaps to turn tighter.   :noid

Ya - next ya know they'll be using those wheels to land with instaed of for putting skid marks on hanger ceilings as ya hot-dog inverted thru em eh!!


***note - no sheep were hurt during the production of this post!
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Speed55 on July 25, 2009, 06:16:03 PM
  :noid :noid :noid you dont even want to see what i was thinking about posting, good thing i know what baord i am on.  lol!
:lol  - I know exactly what your talking about.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Lusche on July 25, 2009, 06:16:40 PM
When the word hack is used in refrence to AH people freak out. I dont know if what tools talking about is happening now, but I am sure that there is someone out there hacking AH. Its no different than any other computer game.

Actually it's very much different. And guys like you are just spreading distrust & paranoia, resulting in dozens of "hacks" being "witnessed" by clueless players every hour.
("No way he could have XYZ...!" Or "nice shooting thrugh hill, hacker!" on CH200)
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: WMLute on July 25, 2009, 06:20:00 PM
Are you serious?  It has been proven time and time again that using elevator trim to make your plane turn tighter and faster is nothing more than an AH urban legend.  Not only has it been proven without a shadow of a doubt, HiTech has even confirmed it doesn't work.  Stop propogating the myth.


ack-ack

QFT

Proven beyond all shadow of a doubt the UP trim does not make your plane turn any tighter.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: kilo2 on July 25, 2009, 06:20:22 PM
I think being naive about hacking doesnt mean it doesnt happen. And lusche i have never accused anyone of hacking. I dont go off calling people hackers if i get shot down.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: WWhiskey on July 25, 2009, 06:23:30 PM
:lol  - I know exactly what your talking about.
:noid :noid :noid :noid
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Lusche on July 25, 2009, 06:25:50 PM
I think being naive about hacking doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

You can be naive in both directions...

Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: kilo2 on July 25, 2009, 06:27:36 PM
You can be naive in both directions...

QFT
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: BaldEagl on July 25, 2009, 06:40:47 PM
I'm actually stunned that Tool is so clueless.

Elevator trim won't help you turn better and other than that it is used in the game just as it was in real life, as an assist to overcome control stiffness and/or compression in addition to keeping your plane flying straight and level.  There have been numerous discussions of trim in th help and training forum.

To suggest that using something one player doesn't know about or understand is gaming the game is ludicrus.  If you didn't understand trim then it was up to you to learn about it.  Didn't you ever wonder why those keys were mapped to trim and what it did?

You've also obviously never watched a film.  In every flight I film when I go to play it back my side to side head movements move outside the plane.  I only wish they did that in game as well but they don't.

As to Belial's claim that disabling other players skins is gaming the game somehow I doubt HT agrees.  He did afterall specifically place a button in the set-up labeled "disable other peoples skins".  Frankly I've never downloaded anything but the default skins and always have that button checked.  I don't want a ton of skins taking up space on my computer and I don't want to deal with micro stutters as skins download.  In fact, I wouldn't care if there were no player skins.  I do just fine in Panzers using the default skin.  Maybe your just not all the GV god you think you are.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: WWhiskey on July 25, 2009, 07:05:51 PM
  Maybe your just not all the GV god you think you are.

  :rofl
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Grind on July 25, 2009, 09:57:15 PM
So, using a little extra "up-trim" in a fight wont help ya get your nose around a little quicker?  What about when you disable "combat trim"?  When is it best to disable combat trim?  Anyone want to elaborate?  Since the topic is gaming the game... Lets see a list... 
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: fudgums on July 25, 2009, 10:00:25 PM
I'm actually stunned that Tool is so clueless.



Jeeze when did you get that  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Belial on July 25, 2009, 10:03:58 PM
Turning diagonal is something that not all average tankers know and its useing damage model to advantage, it may be a real world tactic, but it works.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Motherland on July 25, 2009, 10:05:54 PM
Turning diagonal is something that not all average tankers know and its useing damage model to advantage, it may be a real world tactic, but it works.
Gaming the game is exploiting things that are overlooked in the game mechanics to your advantage, not doing exactly what the game is designed to encourage you to do.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: BaldEagl on July 25, 2009, 10:09:02 PM
Turning diagonal is something that all tankers know and its useing armor to advantage, it is a real world tactic, because it works.

Fixed
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Lusche on July 25, 2009, 10:19:11 PM
Turning diagonal is something that not all average tankers know and its useing damage model to advantage, it may be a real world tactic, but it works.

It works in here for the very same reason it works in the real world.

Gaming the game?

Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: WMLute on July 25, 2009, 10:23:29 PM
So, using a little extra "up-trim" in a fight wont help ya get your nose around a little quicker?  What about when you disable "combat trim"?  When is it best to disable combat trim?  Anyone want to elaborate?  Since the topic is gaming the game... Lets see a list... 


100% deflection is all you can get.

By trimming UP you can NOT get more than 100% elevator deflection.

There is no more.  Trimming UP will not cause you elevators to go beyond max deflection.

Your elevator will only go so far and it doesn't matter if you manually trim UP or pull you joystick back that extra 1/4 inch to get max/full deflection.

The planes turning ability is the same either way. 

(Might I add that once you trim up and do any maneuver BUT a flat turn you are now out of trim and fighting your plane which is now wanting to NOSE UP)


As far as Combat Trim, that is more of a personal prefrence thing.  I always fly with it on, with a few rare exceptions.

I will turn it off when fast in a KI-84, or slow in a P-38.

I hear tell that when stalling nose up in an F4U it's good to turn it off, but i've never done it.  (TC did a great writup about this in Help/Support that I read and have always meant to try)

When I land I DOWN trim to offset the planes tendency to nose up w/ flaps out.

And of course when compressing I will trim up to avoid thwakin' into the ground.

Them 'bout the only time I trim. 

Some players would rather fly w/ manual trim.  Me myself I never saw the need.  IF I ever break down and get that full CH setup w/ a throttle and peddals I might start manually trimming, seein' as I got all those nifty rotary dials and extra buttons and such.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Belial on July 25, 2009, 10:27:52 PM
I said its something off the top of my head I felt it was kinda gamey but whatever
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: DMBEAR on July 25, 2009, 10:29:08 PM
I said its something off the top of my head I felt it was kinda gamey but whatever

<S> Tres  :salute
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: ImADot on July 25, 2009, 10:30:58 PM
IF I ever break down and get that full CH setup w/ a throttle and peddals I might start manually trimming, seein' as I got all those nifty rotary dials and extra buttons and such.

I have it...
Still use combat trim most of the time...
Turn it off when I want to use flaps or when landing.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Scratchman on July 25, 2009, 10:32:04 PM
It's the nature of the human beast, it's going to happen. There will always be those who find "work arounds", cracks, hacks, scripts, etc. and use them. It happens in all games whether online or otherwise. So saying your being "naive" that it doesn't or hasn't here, is an insult at best. But spreading rumors, and propagating that "hackers" are everywhere will be the deathknell of "our" favorite game. Even WOW has seen it's share of "hacks and cracks". People will start to leave in droves if they think that others have an "unfair" advantage over them. It's one of the reasons why AW went under. If you suspect something "gamey" film it and send it in. And please, leave it off the boards and off channel 200. I really love this game and I'd hate to see it's demise.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Grind on July 26, 2009, 12:09:42 AM
100% deflection is all you can get.

By trimming UP you can NOT get more than 100% elevator deflection.

There is no more.  Trimming UP will not cause you elevators to go beyond max deflection.

Your elevator will only go so far and it doesn't matter if you manually trim UP or pull you joystick back that extra 1/4 inch to get max/full deflection.

The planes turning ability is the same either way. 

(Might I add that once you trim up and do any maneuver BUT a flat turn you are now out of trim and fighting your plane which is now wanting to NOSE UP)

Excellent post!  I was under the impression that some of these WW2 planes had trim tabs on the control surface.  For example, on a MDS80 not only can the Horizontal stab be set at an angle but the elevators have trim tabs on the trailing edges of the elevators.  I just assumed when you were using trim you were altering the non existant trim tabs. lol Doesn't really matter now.  I finally hit my limit with the sucker punching and running this game has turned into. I no longer have the time to invest to wade through all the bs just to find a "good" fight.  To all my friend(s) I <S> you. to the sucker punchers and runners...... you know.  :devil
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: WMLute on July 26, 2009, 12:30:20 AM
It's the nature of the human beast, it's going to happen. There will always be those who find "work arounds", cracks, hacks, scripts, etc. and use them. It happens in all games whether online or otherwise. So saying your being "naive" that it doesn't or hasn't here, is an insult at best. But spreading rumors, and propagating that "hackers" are everywhere will be the deathknell of "our" favorite game. Even WOW has seen it's share of "hacks and cracks". People will start to leave in droves if they think that others have an "unfair" advantage over them. It's one of the reasons why AW went under. If you suspect something "gamey" film it and send it in. And please, leave it off the boards and off channel 200. I really love this game and I'd hate to see it's demise.

AirWarrior "died" because EA bought Kesmai so they would have an "in" with America Online and its Games channel.  (which they wanted to run)

I don't have the slightest clue how that has anything to do with "hacks and cracks" but that is how it went down


Nobody has said that AH has not had a few run ins with morons who are trying to be clever. 

I will say that I can count on one hand how many times it has happened in the 9yrs I've flown AH.  (with a finger or 2 to spare)

HTC takes such things most seriously and as such you will find (basically) no cheating in this game.

What most would call "cheating" I call "years of practice".

Just 'cause YOU can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

When I 1st started flying AH I thought Shane just HAD to be cheating somehow.  There was NO WAY his la7 could turn with my A6m.  It just wasn't possible!

It was (and is) possible if you log the hours/days/months/years that it takes to be able to accomplish it.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Scratchman on July 26, 2009, 02:55:42 AM
AirWarrior "died" because EA bought Kesmai so they would have an "in" with America Online and its Games channel.  (which they wanted to run)

I don't have the slightest clue how that has anything to do with "hacks and cracks" but that is how it went down


Nobody has said that AH has not had a few run ins with morons who are trying to be clever. 

I will say that I can count on one hand how many times it has happened in the 9yrs I've flown AH.  (with a finger or 2 to spare)

HTC takes such things most seriously and as such you will find (basically) no cheating in this game.

What most would call "cheating" I call "years of practice".

Just 'cause YOU can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

When I 1st started flying AH I thought Shane just HAD to be cheating somehow.  There was NO WAY his la7 could turn with my A6m.  It just wasn't possible!

It was (and is) possible if you log the hours/days/months/years that it takes to be able to accomplish it.

1.) AW was already an albatross when EA bought Kesmai out. Subscriptions were falling rampantly, and it was a constant rant everywhere about the "script kiddies" use of hacks that was a PART, mind you, a part, of this. I was there, I lived it, so don't preach to me about it. As a matter of fact the problem became so bad that AW started scanning everyone's hard drives prior to being allowed access to the game. Do you even remember this? ( It is one of the BIGGEST fears that online gaming companies face. The fear of their game being hacked and the use of this code becomes widespread. )
2.) Unless you actually work for HiTech you have no clue how much this has actually happened. You talk about your personal experience of how many times that you have seen it as if it is the Gospel. Surely your not that naive that they are the only times it has occurred?
3.) I concur HiTech, like many companies takes it seriously. No where in my post did I say they didn't. So I am at a loss for why you would even mention it. But I feel the boards, nor channel 200 is the place for this discussion. See Rule #7.
4.) Daily I receive either on Channel 200, or personal messages, that I am cheating. So I also agree what can be done from experience can be confused as "cheating". Again I am at a loss why you would mention this. For this explanation doesn't even address the actual threat.
5.) I am always amazed when people like you come here and Rant that it isn't happening here or anywhere for that matter. I am glad that through diligence and perseverance that it is the exception and not the rule within this game. But if your that naive about this problem, then I suggest to you that you keep your Firewall up, and anti-virus software updated. Unless of course your years of computer experience excludes you from this threat.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Masherbrum on July 26, 2009, 03:05:07 AM
<S> Tres  :salute

 :rofl
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 26, 2009, 04:19:29 AM
1.) AW was already an albatross when EA bought Kesmai out. Subscriptions were falling rampantly...

WMLute is very correct in the reasons why EA bought Kesmai.  In addition to getting their foot in the door with AOL, it was also to get their hand on the Aries netcode.  Did you know that when AW shut down its servers for the last time, it was EA's #2 game in terms of subscriptions.  At the time, only OU had more paying subscribers. 


ack-ack
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Scratchman on July 26, 2009, 04:44:16 AM
WMLute is very correct in the reasons why EA bought Kesmai.  In addition to getting their foot in the door with AOL, it was also to get their hand on the Aries netcode.  Did you know that when AW shut down its servers for the last time, it was EA's #2 game in terms of subscriptions.  At the time, only OU had more paying subscribers. 


ack-ack
Didn't say that wasn't the reason why EA bought out Kesmai. I already knew why EA bought out Kesmai. I said AW was already reeling in subscription rates because of the "script kiddies", prior to that, ( over 30% reduction of subscriptions. ) Air Warrior's demise was already in the works. It was my response to why he couldn't see how this pertained to "hacking". And in being # 2 in subscription rates, why did EA shut it down do you think? The abuse of "hacks" and "cracks" can kill any game. The same is true just from the rumors of it.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: The Fugitive on July 26, 2009, 10:10:29 AM
1.) AW was already an albatross when EA bought Kesmai out. Subscriptions were falling rampantly, and it was a constant rant everywhere about the "script kiddies" use of hacks that was a PART, mind you, a part, of this. I was there, I lived it, so don't preach to me about it. As a matter of fact the problem became so bad that AW started scanning everyone's hard drives prior to being allowed access to the game. Do you even remember this? ( It is one of the BIGGEST fears that online gaming companies face. The fear of their game being hacked and the use of this code becomes widespread. )

I flew AW from 97 till the night they turned off the servers and I don't remember them ever scanning my HD. The only times I saw the subscriptions numbers drop was in the waning days of the game and that was because everyone KNEW it was dieing and had switched to other games or quit all together.

Quote
2.) Unless you actually work for HiTech you have no clue how much this has actually happened. You talk about your personal experience of how many times that you have seen it as if it is the Gospel. Surely your not that naive that they are the only times it has occurred?

A pretty good number of people who fly are friends with HT and other members of his staff. I'm sure many a "bit of information" has slipped while downing beers after work. Those friend talk with others. I know of only a few instances where things were done, or tried and they were slammed quickly.

Quote
3.) I concur HiTech, like many companies takes it seriously. No where in my post did I say they didn't. So I am at a loss for why you would even mention it. But I feel the boards, nor channel 200 is the place for this discussion. See Rule #7.

I agree the boards is NOT the place to air this stuff, but I think WMLute was pointing that out that any kind of cheating is quickly addressed by HTC to maintain that "integrity" so as to assure people that the game is kept clean and free of hacks/cheats

Quote
4.) Daily I receive either on Channel 200, or personal messages, that I am cheating. So I also agree what can be done from experience can be confused as "cheating". Again I am at a loss why you would mention this. For this explanation doesn't even address the actual threat.

Maybe not, but it explains the majority of the "issues" that the uninformed complain about. If you don't know how to out turn a zeek with an LA then it may look like a cheat to you. I think that is what WMLute was pointing out

Quote
5.) I am always amazed when people like you come here and Rant that it isn't happening here or anywhere for that matter. I am glad that through diligence and perseverance that it is the exception and not the rule within this game. But if your that naive about this problem, then I suggest to you that you keep your Firewall up, and anti-virus software updated. Unless of course your years of computer experience excludes you from this threat.

I didn't see WMLutes post as a rant.... yours how ever looks very much like one. WMLute posted that HTC is very much on top of anything that anyone might be trying. His code is very jealously guarded for the reasons stated above. You posted falsehoods about AW which just proves that there may be more errors in other things you posted. WMLute tried to post more accurate information and you tried to slam him with your " you's".  Nobody is saying to not to be diligent, but being paranoid is even worst.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: WMLute on July 26, 2009, 11:34:33 AM
Not much to add here.

The III/JG26 9th ST WidowMakers were mostly all American Online employees so I do know quite a bit about what 'happened' to AirWarrior re: EA and AOL.  I was "in the loop" as it were about what was going on.
(I forgot about the Aries bit AckAck, good catch)

You have flown for one year scratch.  What in that year have you contributed to the game?  What about that year flying would give you insight  into what happens in AcesHigh or how things are "done"?  Do tell what has happened, or what have you accomplished, in the past year that would give you, your opinion, or anything you say "credit" when discussing AcesHigh related 'stuff'?

In other words, just why should anybody pay you the slightest bit of attention?  What about you might make us go "hey now, here is a guy that knows what they are talking about!". 

(FYI most everybody allready know the answers to the above questions and they are merely 'rhetorical')



Being Sunday I would point scratchman to Proverbs' 17:28 and kindly ask 'em to take it to heart.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: BaldEagl on July 26, 2009, 11:56:26 AM
Not much to add here.

The III/JG26 9th ST WidowMakers were mostly all American Online employees so I do know quite a bit about what 'happened' to AirWarrior re: EA and AOL.  I was "in the loop" as it were about what was going on.
(I forgot about the Aries bit AckAck, good catch)

You have flown for one year scratch.  What in that year have you contributed to the game?  What about that year flying would give you insight  into what happens in AcesHigh or how things are "done"?  Do tell what has happened, or what have you accomplished, in the past year that would give you, your opinion, or anything you say "credit" when discussing AcesHigh related 'stuff'?

In other words, just why should anybody pay you the slightest bit of attention?  What about you might make us go "hey now, here is a guy that knows what they are talking about!". 

(FYI most everybody allready know the answers to the above questions and they are merely 'rhetorical')



Being Sunday I would point scratchman to Proverbs' 17:28 and kindly ask 'em to take it to heart.

Fixed.   :D
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Steve on July 26, 2009, 12:03:10 PM
Quote
Daily I receive either on Channel 200, or personal messages, that I am cheating.

 :)




Uhhh shenanigans
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: TonyJoey on July 26, 2009, 12:12:54 PM
:)




Uhhh shenanigans

Says the biggest gamer in this game. It's impossible to kill you when you're playing the piano. :mad:
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: R 105 on July 26, 2009, 02:29:11 PM
We have all seen the You Tube post with the planes dropping a 1000 bombs and the plane taking off of a base and climbing straight up to ten thousand feel like it was on a yo yo string. However all the people who hacked AH to do this all have something in common besides no morals. They were all caught by HT and booted off the game. This is a pretty well policed game as far as I can see. Don't confuse gaming the game with cheating. Turning off stall limiter and saving head positions is not a cheat. I was taken in by the cry of cheating by others when I first came to the game. I am 56 years old and this is the first and only computer game I have ever played and I am pretty dumb about computers anyway but even I figured out there is very little cheating going on. Don't put to much stock in what you see on You Tube.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Scratchman on July 26, 2009, 02:41:38 PM
I flew AW from 97 till the night they turned off the servers and I don't remember them ever scanning my HD. The only times I saw the subscriptions numbers drop was in the waning days of the game and that was because everyone KNEW it was dieing and had switched to other games or quit all together.

A pretty good number of people who fly are friends with HT and other members of his staff. I'm sure many a "bit of information" has slipped while downing beers after work. Those friend talk with others. I know of only a few instances where things were done, or tried and they were slammed quickly.

I agree the boards is NOT the place to air this stuff, but I think WMLute was pointing that out that any kind of cheating is quickly addressed by HTC to maintain that "integrity" so as to assure people that the game is kept clean and free of hacks/cheats

Maybe not, but it explains the majority of the "issues" that the uninformed complain about. If you don't know how to out turn a zeek with an LA then it may look like a cheat to you. I think that is what WMLute was pointing out

I didn't see WMLutes post as a rant.... yours how ever looks very much like one. WMLute posted that HTC is very much on top of anything that anyone might be trying. His code is very jealously guarded for the reasons stated above. You posted falsehoods about AW which just proves that there may be more errors in other things you posted. WMLute tried to post more accurate information and you tried to slam him with your " you's".  Nobody is saying to not to be diligent, but being paranoid is even worst.
Don't know why you don't remember the Hard Drive scans. I too flew AW since it's DOS Beta days, it began the last year of it's existence. To sum it all up I agreed with what WMLute said. The slamming began with him however, and I took my concerns in the wrong direction. Quote: Just 'cause YOU can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.. If it wasn't a slam he would have chosen a word like someone.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Scratchman on July 26, 2009, 03:04:06 PM
Not much to add here.

The III/JG26 9th ST WidowMakers were mostly all American Online employees so I do know quite a bit about what 'happened' to AirWarrior re: EA and AOL.  I was "in the loop" as it were about what was going on.
(I forgot about the Aries bit AckAck, good catch)

You have flown for one year scratch.  What in that year have you contributed to the game?  What about that year flying would give you insight  into what happens in AcesHigh or how things are "done"?  Do tell what has happened, or what have you accomplished, in the past year that would give you, your opinion, or anything you say "credit" when discussing AcesHigh related 'stuff'?

In other words, just why should anybody pay you the slightest bit of attention?  What about you might make us go "hey now, here is a guy that knows what they are talking about!". 

(FYI most everybody allready know the answers to the above questions and they are merely 'rhetorical')



Being Sunday I would point scratchman to Proverbs' 17:28 and kindly ask 'em to take it to heart.
So I have to fly AH for several years to be considered worthy? Sorry for the slam, I took it that you were slamming me, and to me it appears that you still are. I flew AW from it's DOS Beta days under the CPID Cuda. When AW's demise was evident, I quit flying due to my wife's failing health condition about 3 months before it's Death, who is still battling Breast and Ovarian Cancer. Now that I have more time on my hands I am flying AH. So I am being punished for not being able to fly all this time in AH? I try to contribute, and "Veterans" like yourself pick apart every part of someone's post, and for what? I see it everywhere. Perhaps if you want more people to be a part and contribute, maybe stop knocking them down. My whole point was that this discussion has no place here on the boards. That is my opionion and I am entitled to it. Just 'cause YOU can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. To me by not choosing a word like someone instead of all cap's YOU, comes off as a slam. Being Sunday I will part with this; I had a concern, a real concern, that even a rumor of cheating can kill this game, or any game for that matter, if it's an online game.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Belial on July 26, 2009, 04:06:09 PM
Scratchman you fly respectually and I never see you badmouth anyone, I think we could all read a page of your book and benifet.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: kilo2 on July 26, 2009, 04:12:08 PM
Not much to add here.

The III/JG26 9th ST WidowMakers were mostly all American Online employees so I do know quite a bit about what 'happened' to AirWarrior re: EA and AOL.  I was "in the loop" as it were about what was going on.
(I forgot about the Aries bit AckAck, good catch)

You have flown for one year scratch.  What in that year have you contributed to the game?  What about that year flying would give you insight  into what happens in AcesHigh or how things are "done"?  Do tell what has happened, or what have you accomplished, in the past year that would give you, your opinion, or anything you say "credit" when discussing AcesHigh related 'stuff'?

In other words, just why should anybody pay you the slightest bit of attention?  What about you might make us go "hey now, here is a guy that knows what they are talking about!". 

(FYI most everybody allready know the answers to the above questions and they are merely 'rhetorical')



Being Sunday I would point scratchman to Proverbs' 17:28 and kindly ask 'em to take it to heart.

Ah another pile-it who thinks time in game equates to respect or knowledge.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: LYNX on July 26, 2009, 04:39:51 PM
I always wondered why there was a option to get a capture in attack mode. The only way to get a capture in attack mode is to drop troops, end sortie and then sit on the runway in a plane thats set in attack mode until you get a capture mesg.

The capture will go to your squad and not you yourself and can increase overall squad rank dramatically. What was the reason for putting that in?


Another thing I just found out is that some of the best sticks in the game use the MAGIC K KEY to turn faster and tighter than anyone else plus helps you avoid auguring into the ground at high speed due to compression. Seems the K key over rules why we have compression in the first place.

Although I wish I knew about it before I left the game and probably would have used it, I think it should be disabled. It's an unfair, game the game type advantage for those who know how to use it.





From the Spitfire pilot note book....about .......TRIM.  30 being your interpritation as the magic key

Quote
AIRCRAFT CONTROLS
12. Trimming tabs.—The elevator trimming tabs are controlled by
a handwheel (30) on the left-hand side of the cockpit, the
indicator (24) being on the instrument panel. The rudder
trimming tab is controlled by a small hand-wheel (27) and is
not provided with an indicator. The aircraft tends to turn to
starboard when the handwheel is rotated clockwise.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Sloehand on July 26, 2009, 04:58:04 PM
So I've read through this thread for the pertinent info on the "Elevator Trim Up" issue, and I see where most everyone uses words like "tighter" as the advantage gained.  However, I wonder if the more correct term, at least in the scenario I'll present here, is "quicker".

I'll just give you what I was taught and the reasoning behind it.  I'll even admit that it 'seems' to actually induce some small element of advantage, at least to my perception, but I could be technically wrong, so don't beat on me, just explain.

When entering into a Head On merge with a bandit at some distance (similar to the dueling merge we use to practice ACM) I will sometimes hit the Elevator Trim Up key at about 2.5-3K out from the bandit.  This drives my nose up so I counter with forward pressure on the stick.  It takes approx. a second and a half for the elevator to move from neutral to full up.   As I avoid the bandit's shot and we pass I release stick pressure and my plane seems to immediately snap up into a full elevator up loop.  The bandit, I assume, pulls back on his stick to achieve the same loop, but it takes time for his elevator to get into the full up position.  Therefore, all other things being equal (we react into the loop at the same time), theoretically, I gain a split half second advantage as my elevator is already full up at the moment in initiate movement upward out of level flight.  Does this mean I actually turn tighter, I don't know (you'd think so), but I think it does mean I turn a slight bit quicker. 

However, I'm open to the interpretation of the 'experts' that maybe even this is a fallacy.

Also, I fully realize that in doing this you induce drag at the merge, but given a high starting speed this is not a problem, further it seems to help to quickly reduce airspeed for a better loop as well.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Scratchman on July 26, 2009, 05:02:04 PM
Scratchman you fly respectually and I never see you badmouth anyone, I think we could all read a page of your book and benifet.
Thank you Belial, and I respect all who play this great game. Never been much of a "fragger", so I'm not starting now. WMLute, I respect you as a player, and one who contributes to the boards as well. So I wish you well.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: WMLute on July 26, 2009, 05:18:52 PM
Ah another pile-it who thinks time in game equates to respect or knowledge.

2 quick things.


First to scratch.  The "you" was an "in general" and not directed to you yourself as a player.  Wasn't a slam on you as I can't say what type of a pilot you are off the top of my head so I wouldn't be able to comment on your ability.  Wasn't personal and I hope you don't take it as such as that was not my intent.

Now to kilo2.

Yes actually.  To a large degree I do think that.  I think it is import. to honor those that went before us and who prob. have forgotten more than we will learn about this little hobby.   Without them there IS no community or game for us to fly.  I remember when I saw GrayEagle (GE) start flying again last year (ish?  was it last year?) and I made great pains to make sure to <S> him, told 'em how great I thought he was (even announced to all the players online at the time we were in the presence of greatness) and passed it on to my squad to look out for him and help 'em if he needed it.

Why did I do that?  He deserved it.

These are the players whose shoulders this community was built upon and they deserve our respect.

I also think that the time/effort that a player gives back to the game and the community is worthy of respect.  Players that log untold hours working in the AvA, TA, or the SEA.  Those players deserve respect as well.  They have shed blood sweat and tears for this game and deserve it.

I can't tell you how much respect I have for these players.  The Daddogs, 68Falcons, Ghosths, and too many to name in one post.  We HAVE a community and a great game to play because of their efforts.  (waves to TC, you on that list too buddy)

Heck, I'm sure WideWing looses more knowledge about WW2 airplanes when he sneezes than I will ever know.  I am constantly amazed at how much he contributes to the community.

I respect the newer, younger players who have made the effort to excel in this game.  The TonyJoeys and the BearKats (and again too many to name here) who have logged the time and put forth the effort to add to the game and the community.

So yes kilo, I DO think that.  One should always respect their elders.  We wouldn't be where we are at now w/o them.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Rich46yo on July 26, 2009, 05:21:03 PM
Well said Lute. :salute
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Scratchman on July 26, 2009, 06:10:00 PM
Sorry that I took your reference the wrong way WMLute, my passion for this game may have gotten the best of me. I saw how the "rumor mills" about the "script kiddies" in AW affected that game, and I did not want to see a repeat here. And speaking of America Online, I was a Sys Op for two years for Quantum Link . Remember what they became?  :rock
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Dadsguns on July 26, 2009, 06:15:39 PM
I will say that I can count on one hand how many times it has happened in the 9yrs I've flown AH.  (with a finger or 2 to spare)

Unless your are deformed in some way, this would mean only 3-4 in 9yrs? 

I would dare say its much more than that in 9yrs.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Scratchman on July 26, 2009, 06:21:03 PM
Unless your are deformed in some way, this would mean only 3-4 in 9yrs? 

I would dare say its much more than that in 9yrs.
If truth be known much more than that, many times over. As a community we can play a big part in keeping the numbers of who try low.   :rock
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Motherland on July 26, 2009, 06:23:03 PM
Unless your are deformed in some way, this would mean only 3-4 in 9yrs? 

I would dare say its much more than that in 9yrs.
He means software hacks in the MA... not just 'gaming'... so I would dare to say he's right or not far off.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: LYNX on July 26, 2009, 07:04:53 PM
If truth be known much more than that, many times over. As a community we can play a big part in keeping the numbers of who try low.   :rock

Stop pushing the myth.  Look mate 99.9% of accusations in game are from ignorant clueless folk.  I personally have no credentails other than 150+ hours every month since January 2002.  In that time I have only ever witnessed 4 incidences.  That leaves me a thumb Dadsguns.

Here's one from about 5 hrs ago ....check the victims comment.

http://www.filefront.com/14129877/invisability%20_1020.ahf
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: LYNX on July 26, 2009, 07:29:28 PM
SNIP

When entering into a Head On merge with a bandit at some distance (similar to the dueling merge we use to practice ACM) I will sometimes hit the Elevator Trim Up key at about 2.5-3K out from the bandit.  This drives my nose up so I counter with forward pressure on the stick.  It takes approx. a second and a half for the elevator to move from neutral to full up.   As I avoid the bandit's shot and we pass I release stick pressure and my plane seems to immediately snap up into a full elevator up loop.  The bandit, I assume, pulls back on his stick to achieve the same loop, but it takes time for his elevator to get into the full up position.  Therefore, all other things being equal (we react into the loop at the same time), theoretically, I gain a split half second advantage as my elevator is already full up at the moment in initiate movement upward out of level flight.  Does this mean I actually turn tighter, I don't know (you'd think so), but I think it does mean I turn a slight bit quicker. 

However, I'm open to the interpretation of the 'experts' that maybe even this is a fallacy.


I'm no expert but I'll say this.  It seems to me your just ahead of the game by being prepared...is all.  Should you need to dive low you'll have to trim down which would, as you say, take a moment to do. 

Trimming is a personal thing.  I have stick 3 set up for using trims and find myself using it mostly to pull out of compression.  Some like to trim others like myself find it far to fiddly in the middle of ball busting dog fight.  As the fight progresses you'll be way out of trim and feel it. 
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: moot on July 26, 2009, 07:31:22 PM
We have all seen the You Tube post with the planes dropping a 1000 bombs and the plane taking off of a base and climbing straight up to ten thousand feel like it was on a yo yo string. However all the people who hacked AH to do this all have something in common besides no morals. They were all caught by HT and booted off the game. This is a pretty well policed game as far as I can see. Don't confuse gaming the game with cheating. Turning off stall limiter and saving head positions is not a cheat. I was taken in by the cry of cheating by others when I first came to the game. I am 56 years old and this is the first and only computer game I have ever played and I am pretty dumb about computers anyway but even I figured out there is very little cheating going on. Don't put to much stock in what you see on You Tube.
That youtube video isn't relevant anymore.  No use bringing it up..

Lynx has it right.  The majority of cheat comments are false and caused by ... ignorance, with all due respect.

So I've read through this thread for the pertinent info on the "Elevator Trim Up" issue, and I see where most everyone uses words like "tighter" as the advantage gained.  However, I wonder if the more correct term, at least in the scenario I'll present here, is "quicker".

I'll just give you what I was taught and the reasoning behind it.  I'll even admit that it 'seems' to actually induce some small element of advantage, at least to my perception, but I could be technically wrong, so don't beat on me, just explain.

When entering into a Head On merge with a bandit at some distance (similar to the dueling merge we use to practice ACM) I will sometimes hit the Elevator Trim Up key at about 2.5-3K out from the bandit.  This drives my nose up so I counter with forward pressure on the stick.  It takes approx. a second and a half for the elevator to move from neutral to full up.   As I avoid the bandit's shot and we pass I release stick pressure and my plane seems to immediately snap up into a full elevator up loop.  The bandit, I assume, pulls back on his stick to achieve the same loop, but it takes time for his elevator to get into the full up position.  Therefore, all other things being equal (we react into the loop at the same time), theoretically, I gain a split half second advantage as my elevator is already full up at the moment in initiate movement upward out of level flight.  Does this mean I actually turn tighter, I don't know (you'd think so), but I think it does mean I turn a slight bit quicker. 

However, I'm open to the interpretation of the 'experts' that maybe even this is a fallacy.

Also, I fully realize that in doing this you induce drag at the merge, but given a high starting speed this is not a problem, further it seems to help to quickly reduce airspeed for a better loop as well.
Didn't someone at HTC once say that trim tabs weren't modeled?  Or that the 109's integral horstab "trim" wasn't modeled.  Either way, this is how I see it:
1) If trim makes no difference to full deflection and
2) trim does make a difference in pulling out from nose-down compression
Then what trim seems to be is a force multiplier over the same range of elevator travel.  Or trim tabs really are modeled.  Either way, while you don't get any extra authority and a tighter max turn from trim, you do get increasing authority above a certain speed and that does give an advantage like Sloehand points out.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: kilo2 on July 26, 2009, 08:46:31 PM
2 quick things.


First to scratch.  The "you" was an "in general" and not directed to you yourself as a player.  Wasn't a slam on you as I can't say what type of a pilot you are off the top of my head so I wouldn't be able to comment on your ability.  Wasn't personal and I hope you don't take it as such as that was not my intent.

Now to kilo2.

Yes actually.  To a large degree I do think that.  I think it is import. to honor those that went before us and who prob. have forgotten more than we will learn about this little hobby.   Without them there IS no community or game for us to fly.  I remember when I saw GrayEagle (GE) start flying again last year (ish?  was it last year?) and I made great pains to make sure to <S> him, told 'em how great I thought he was (even announced to all the players online at the time we were in the presence of greatness) and passed it on to my squad to look out for him and help 'em if he needed it.

Why did I do that?  He deserved it.

These are the players whose shoulders this community was built upon and they deserve our respect.

I also think that the time/effort that a player gives back to the game and the community is worthy of respect.  Players that log untold hours working in the AvA, TA, or the SEA.  Those players deserve respect as well.  They have shed blood sweat and tears for this game and deserve it.

I can't tell you how much respect I have for these players.  The Daddogs, 68Falcons, Ghosths, and too many to name in one post.  We HAVE a community and a great game to play because of their efforts.  (waves to TC, you on that list too buddy)

Heck, I'm sure WideWing looses more knowledge about WW2 airplanes when he sneezes than I will ever know.  I am constantly amazed at how much he contributes to the community.

I respect the newer, younger players who have made the effort to excel in this game.  The TonyJoeys and the BearKats (and again too many to name here) who have logged the time and put forth the effort to add to the game and the community.

So yes kilo, I DO think that.  One should always respect their elders.  We wouldn't be where we are at now w/o them.

I respect people not on age or time in game. I respect people on what they say or what they do. Just because somebody has played for ten years and happens to be 20 years older than me, or others, doesn't give them license to do or say whatever they want. Then expect every one to give them respect. So many times I have seen vets post in peoples threads and just rip them to shreds without adding anything to the discussion.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: LYNX on July 26, 2009, 09:48:27 PM
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/trim.jpg)

Look....this stuff is in game for anyone to use it if they wish.  Personally combat trim on is more convenient for me.

If you ain't read the Top Secret help file.....that's your fault.  There's others you can use like stick scale to stop the horrid nose bounce or make your stick heavy on the feel. Take the training wheels off and uncheck "stall limiter".  There's volume controls for every effect in "game sound".  Tip:- make secondary explosion 100%

If you don't understand something step back and figure it out.  Don't be a dumb arse and jump to unwarranted conclusions cause the likes of me don't have duel accounts for spying, bullet proof planes, invisible tanks, aim bots, hurri 1 handling with 262 speed.  We have an ounce of skill over the less fortunate.

Some of you ain't going to get it but here's an example.  In the first few months of playing AH I had a couple of incidences where I was creeping up on a cons low 6 but a few times they broke.  How the hell did they know I was there.  It was just me and him so no check 6's.  I was low to their 6 so they couldn't see me.  The only thing I could think of was that they somehow heard me.  Sure enough in "game sound" there's engine and external engine. 

What I'm getting at here is THINK MAN!....THINK.

Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: flatiron1 on July 26, 2009, 10:00:48 PM
someone please tell me how to adjust individual volume on ship and tank guns.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: moot on July 26, 2009, 10:10:09 PM
Not sure about ships', but for tank guns you can adjust the individual tank turret sound file's volume relative to the game's "turret" sound volume.  The file is "tankgun.wav".  That's strictly for internal sound. Turrets don't have unique external sounds like tracks and engines do.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: DMBEAR on July 26, 2009, 10:17:08 PM
A good one for gaming the game is to up a 262 on the runway.   As you decide not to take it you type ef forgetting the dot.  That way you fire a cannon round into the next uppin plane and lose 140 perkies.

Just did it myself.   :o
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: A8TOOL on July 26, 2009, 10:35:08 PM
someone please tell me how to adjust individual volume on ship and tank guns.

I believe it is in (pull up map/chose options or preferences /look for game sounds/ find explode sounds/ then while on the ship with 5-8's firing/ use slider to lower sound of explode #2  (? ? ?)  could be 3..or 1...  I forget.


WOW, lots of stuff to read in this thread. Looks like I got hammered up pretty good for not structuring my sentences properly again.

Missing words and punctuations make all the difference here when trying to convey even simple thoughts. I took for granted that most of you that use it knew what I was talking about. I've never been a good writer fellas, sorry.

I see exactly where my K Key comment went wrong. I should have elaborated more on when I found it most useful in the beginning instead of the end of the sentence.. The fact remains though, many people don't know how to use it or even that it even exists and i still think it's a useful but gamey feature.

I'll make another short post to flame upon.


Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: A8TOOL on July 26, 2009, 11:23:57 PM
Took awhile but had some distractions as always.




Another thing I just found out is that some of the best sticks in the game use the MAGIC K KEY to turn faster and tighter than anyone else plus helps you avoid auguring into the ground at high speed due to compression. Seems the K key over rules why we have compression in the first place.

Although I wish I knew about it before I left the game and probably would have used it, I think it should be disabled. It's an unfair, game the game type advantage for those who know how to use it.


Reworded version of my thought on the K key



EDIT IN BLUE

Another thing I just found out is that some of the best sticks in the game use the MAGIC K KEY to turn faster and tighter than most people when traveling AT TOP SPEED plus it will help you avoid auguring into the ground at high speed due to compression. Seems the K key over rules why we have compression in the first place and I'm not sure our guys had that ability in real life.


Although I wish I knew about it before I left the game and probably would have used it, I think it should be disabled. It's an unfair, game the game type advantage for those who know how to use it.






Looks like SLOHAND got my meaning.

I don't fly the 38 well and one of the reasons is compression. the K key reall did help and I wish i knew about it sooner. It also helped in the F4U and the spit at high speed. Those where the three I tested.

At slow speed they did not seem to have nearly as much affect if at all and NO, you can not make the plane turn any tighter or faster that i was able to pick up on at those speeds.

2: Concerning this game,  HTC does a great job of combating the hackers of the world who will try anything to get an advantage over others.

As with all programs, there are holes that can and will be sought after for breach. For instance...and is only my opinion...the manned guns. You can't see whose in them and when the same guy kills you and your buds easily from distance when your going at top speed it seems fishy to me. Same could be said of the gv's but won't elaborate further except to say that it can be looked at as very suspicious at times.

3: A8Grind, I'm sorry to see your so disappointed in the game or I should say :some of it's players" and are thinking of leaving. :frown:

4> Scratch.... try not to get in any heated discussions here. Anonymity can bring out the worst in people and very few will try to come in and save you because it's easier for them to hammer someone up than it is to stand up for them. Once one gets on you, you can expect a few more to step right in and put a shoe to ya whether right or wrong. Most of them you'll find have been here a long time with plenty of posts..... not to say the guy with the most posts is the biggest idiot....hopefully you get my meaning.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: A8TOOL on July 26, 2009, 11:36:37 PM


Seems the K key over rules why we have compression in the first place and I'm not sure our guys had that ability in real life.




My thought on this was that if your controls are froze, so would your trim levers, wheels or cranks be...........not to mention the High G's (or whatever) that you might be experiencing might further aid in preventing you from pulling out of partial or fully compressed dive.

Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: A8TOOL on July 27, 2009, 01:20:32 AM
I think Slohand translated the magic part of the k key perfectly here.



I see where most everyone uses words like "tighter" as the advantage gained.  However, I wonder if the more correct term, at least in the scenario I'll present here, is "quicker".

 but I could be technically wrong, so don't beat on me, just explain.

 This drives my nose up so I counter with forward pressure on the stick.  It takes approx. a second and a half for the elevator to move from neutral to full up.   As I avoid the bandit's shot and we pass I release stick pressure and my plane seems to immediately snap up into a full elevator up loop.  Magically  :rofl


When i was testing the 38 it seemed once I hit the K key and held it I was able to release almost all pressure from the stick and it did a perfect loop a lot faster and tighter than I could have manually. Full K key is like temporarily going on computer generated autopilot in that situation.....and when your done with it just turn combat trim back on to acquire target or find the line you want to take next.

The slower you go the less affective it seemed though..... but I was able to find a few instances where the K key and flaps worked well together pulling the nose up quickly but very stable w/o any buffeting.


Last thing.

I was able to climb to 8k, pull up, hit the K key full, dump a few notches of flaps, cut throt a bit and do perfectly continuous loops over and over again without touching the stick. It just went round and round. In fact i got tired of waiting to see how long I could leave it like that without crashing and walked away for.....? ? ?  not sure exactly, maybe 5-6 min only to come back and still see it looping around. It was a little crooked by that time and i lost some alt but it was still going round and round all on it's own.       Try it  :aok

Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Rich46yo on July 27, 2009, 05:28:15 AM
I had a guy the other day accuse me of cheating cause I blew his tail off with an easy 1.5k HO shot while in a 37mm FG. :lol I saw him lighting up the port, jumped into the gun, at 2k opened up and just allowed him to fly into it. Most of us can make that shot all day. I checked his rank and sure enough he was ranked in the top 50. I checked his Stats and he has almost as many deaths as he has Kills. In fact in attack Veh.s he has 13 more deaths then kills, where'as I try and maintain at least a 3 to 1 K/D, and yet he is ranked far better then I in attack vehicles.

Well look if the guy wants to artificially inflate his rank by running troops and finding ways to game the game more power to him. More then likely tho its players like that who will accuse others of cheating.

Its funny that anyone would accuse Lynx. Ive heard him dress down a young kid who changed over to Rooks with inside info that they shared on range Vox. Ive spent entire game days with him defending bases while at a huge disadvantage, or seen him fly alone into a defended base. And still he's able to rank so high. Nobody plays as hard or as fair as him.


Stop pushing the myth.  Look mate 99.9% of accusations in game are from ignorant clueless folk.  I personally have no credentails other than 150+ hours every month since January 2002.  In that time I have only ever witnessed 4 incidences.  That leaves me a thumb Dadsguns.

Here's one from about 5 hrs ago ....check the victims comment.

http://www.filefront.com/14129877/invisability%20_1020.ahf
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: uptown on July 27, 2009, 06:40:52 AM
For the record Uptown does not game the game. The game is not that important to me. Gaming the game is for gamers and I'm too damned old to be a gamer. Carry on gamers...that is all  :salute
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: BaldEagl on July 27, 2009, 07:51:08 AM
Well look if the guy wants to artificially inflate his rank by running troops and finding ways to game the game more power to him.

So dropping troops is now gaming the game or score-wh***ing?   :rolleyes:

BTW, you're Lynx bromance is showing again.  It sounds as though you'd like him to "dress you down".   ;)
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Shuffler on July 27, 2009, 07:56:07 AM
We have all seen the You Tube post with the planes dropping a 1000 bombs and the plane taking off of a base and climbing straight up to ten thousand feel like it was on a yo yo string. However all the people who hacked AH to do this all have something in common besides no morals. They were all caught by HT and booted off the game. This is a pretty well policed game as far as I can see. Don't confuse gaming the game with cheating. Turning off stall limiter and saving head positions is not a cheat. I was taken in by the cry of cheating by others when I first came to the game. I am 56 years old and this is the first and only computer game I have ever played and I am pretty dumb about computers anyway but even I figured out there is very little cheating going on. Don't put to much stock in what you see on You Tube.

Keep in mind that many of those films were shot in H2H where you can change settings. Set wind up at 200 and you can float or rise fast. You could change most anything, even make the sky purple.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Vudak on July 27, 2009, 08:47:45 AM
I respect people not on age or time in game. I respect people on what they say or what they do. Just because somebody has played for ten years and happens to be 20 years older than me, or others, doesn't give them license to do or say whatever they want. Then expect every one to give them respect. So many times I have seen vets post in peoples threads and just rip them to shreds without adding anything to the discussion.

Joining AH is somewhat like starting a new job...  You may have no experience, or much experience, but most of your coworkers don't know one way or another at first.  If you show up on your first day and start telling people how things should be done, or proclaiming how you're not going to take your coworkers' word for it, you're going to rub people the wrong way.  You need to build up some credibility first.

Do new guys get jumped on sometimes?  Sure.  Do kids get spanked, or sent to the chair in the corner?  Well, they used to.  It's the same principle.  If a newbie/kid flys off the handle, it's whining/temper tantrum.  If a vet/parent does, it's discipline/exasperation.  It's a double standard that might not seem fair at first, but give it a few years.  Look at the thread pattern on these bulletin boards.  See just how often the same things come up, and the same (relatively kind) answers are given.  Is it really surprising that when a newer guy who won't accept the kinder answer comes along, they're given the full show?

That's just the way it is.  The important question is how will the newbie react to it?  Will they cower off indefinitely and hold a grudge forever, or will they walk it off and get on with life?  FWIW, you have to do something outrageously stupid around here to become a lifelong pariah. 

<--- speaking from the perspective of someone who has gotten some *serious* dressing downs from vets over the years, and for my very greater good.  If you want the story, ask Redhawk.  If you want the extended director's cut, talk to BritCH  :rofl
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: kilo2 on July 27, 2009, 09:20:54 AM
Joining AH is somewhat like starting a new job...  You may have no experience, or much experience, but most of your coworkers don't know one way or another at first.  If you show up on your first day and start telling people how things should be done, or proclaiming how you're not going to take your coworkers' word for it, you're going to rub people the wrong way.  You need to build up some credibility first.

Do new guys get jumped on sometimes?  Sure.  Do kids get spanked, or sent to the chair in the corner?  Well, they used to.  It's the same principle.  If a newbie/kid flys off the handle, it's whining/temper tantrum.  If a vet/parent does, it's discipline/exasperation.  It's a double standard that might not seem fair at first, but give it a few years.  Look at the thread pattern on these bulletin boards.  See just how often the same things come up, and the same (relatively kind) answers are given.  Is it really surprising that when a newer guy who won't accept the kinder answer comes along, they're given the full show?

That's just the way it is.  The important question is how will the newbie react to it?  Will they cower off indefinitely and hold a grudge forever, or will they walk it off and get on with life?  FWIW, you have to do something outrageously stupid around here to become a lifelong pariah. 

<--- speaking from the perspective of someone who has gotten some *serious* dressing downs from vets over the years, and for my very greater good.  If you want the story, ask Redhawk.  If you want the extended director's cut, talk to BritCH  :rofl

Firstly I don't think I try to tell people what to do.

Secondly I try to take advise from vets as much as possible but besides this post I haven't been given much. Can count on one hand the amount of advice I have been given actually. Which is OK I can learn on my own.

I am not well known in this community and rarely do I post unless something just seems really arrogant/stupid. I do try and speak whats truly on my mind though. If that makes me the most un popular guy in aces high so be I can still fly and shoot down planes. I don't want people to think that I don't respect anyone either because there is alot of guys in this game that after 6 months I respect, All the event CMs to start.
It just really bothers me that alot "vets" act like there crap doesn't stink.

Thanks Vudak for the advice and kind words though  :salute
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: LYNX on July 27, 2009, 09:27:46 AM
I think Slohand translated the magic part of the k key perfectly here.




When i was testing the 38 it seemed once I hit the K key and held it I was able to release almost all pressure from the stick and it did a perfect loop a lot faster and tighter than I could have manually. Full K key is like temporarily going on computer generated autopilot in that situation.....and when your done with it just turn combat trim back on to acquire target or find the line you want to take next.

The slower you go the less affective it seemed though..... but I was able to find a few instances where the K key and flaps worked well together pulling the nose up quickly but very stable w/o any buffeting.


Last thing.

I was able to climb to 8k, pull up, hit the K key full, dump a few notches of flaps, cut throt a bit and do perfectly continuous loops over and over again without touching the stick. It just went round and round. In fact i got tired of waiting to see how long I could leave it like that without crashing and walked away for.....? ? ?  not sure exactly, maybe 5-6 min only to come back and still see it looping around. It was a little crooked by that time and i lost some alt but it was still going round and round all on it's own.       Try it  :aok



Look mate I'm no expert so I can't explain technically as to what's going on here.  I can only tell you my observations.

Lets deal with everything you've been posting in one foul swoop.  Firstly take your P38 up again and press Alt R... record film.  As you climb out press the page up page down keys.  Press the arrow keys left right up and down.  Lastly press the down arrow so as to sit the pilot way back in the seat.  This is most important for you to see what I'm about to explain.

Now do your "F" key trim up experiment but observe the yoke.  Does the yoke not "pull back"?  If the yoke is pulled back then the plane will do a loop....correct?  If the yoke is kept pulled back consistently is the plain going to keep looping?

OK...now!  With the arrow keys and the use of Z & ]]]] for zoom take a close look at the P38's trim setting.  Right of the yoke on the dash.  They are balanced under combat trim.....correct? Now trim up "F" and observer the trim.

Watch your film and you'll perhaps see some out of plane head views although in the plane your head never once left the confines of the cockpit.......It's the film viewer man.

Here's a link to dog fighter.  Fast forward to 2 minutes 30 seconds. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRLk9b9AcY&feature=PlayList&p=339B7D26B33FA7BA&index=0&playnext=1

This guy pulled out by pulling hard on the yoke. Note the comment about denser air.  Although he never commented as to what he was focusing on inside the cockpit I'll wager it wasn't full steam ahead.  That throttle would have been slammed shut for starters.  As I said I'm no expert so to comment about whacking the trim wheel to max would be nothing more than sheer speculation.

For a contrast take a F4u or Spitfire up.  Using keys observe the trim settings.  There not balanced like the P38 are they.  That's cause the plane is trimmed correctly for torq and the like.   Balance those trims out and repeat your experiment.  They loop as the P38 does cause the stick which you can't observe in the F4's is pulled back.  You can see the spits stick pull back when you trim up.

It's OK to come here and make comments but if your not going to fully think about it and explore other possibilities your posting nothing less than:-

DISINFO

Sorry an all that but stuff like this should be talked about correctly before another AH urban myth is born.  Unfortunately I don't have the "knowledge" to comment as to what actually is happening but it makes perfect sense to me that if the stick is kept back in the saddle nothing other than a loop will occur.  Having observed the movement of the stick when trimmed my question to real pilots is this.....

Would that happen in a real plane and if not what does "technically" happen.  Is it the ele's being set to maximum deflection as though the stick is pulled all the way back?
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: RufusLeaking on July 27, 2009, 10:07:00 AM
My thought on this was that if your controls are froze, so would your trim levers, wheels or cranks be...........not to mention the High G's (or whatever) that you might be experiencing might further aid in preventing you from pulling out of partial or fully compressed dive.
Allow me to build on Grind's post:
For example, on a MDS80 not only can the Horizontal stab be set at an angle but the elevators have trim tabs on the trailing edges of the elevators.
The KC-135 has a movable horizontal stabilizer similar to the MDS80.  The stabilizer can be pivoted to adjust its relative angle of attack to reduce the force required on the control column at different speeds and CG positions.  It moves up and down with a jack screw.  There are three independent ways to turn that screw: electric trim motor, manual trim wheel and the auto pilot trim motor.

None of these would be limited due to "frozen controls."  Controls don't actually freeze.  The force required to deflect them may at times exceed the leverage provided by the stick.  I do not know for sure, but it is plausible the WWII trim tabs had some form of mechanical advantage that might have deflected the controls when the stick could not.

Regarding an increase in deflection, it is not possible.  Trim only affects the forces on the stick.  The physical limits of travel on the control surfaces are not modified by trim tabs.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: TEShaw on July 27, 2009, 11:32:43 AM
Just when this thread was about to fade away...a new bouquet of posts from TOOL.

Looks like I got hammered up pretty good for not structuring my sentences properly again.

Missing words and punctuations make all the difference here when trying to convey even simple thoughts.I've never been a good writer fellas, sorry.


Duh.

Indeed. You fail at expressing "simple thoughts."

(and not just "here")

Also, if you were some kind of international grammarian, you might have a use for the word, "punctuations"; otherwise, 'PUNCTUATION' is SINGULAR!.

Also, you owe all of us a better apology than that.

regards, teshaw
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Wreked on July 27, 2009, 12:02:47 PM
EDIT *** Moved to the OTHER trim thread!

cheers eh!
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: R 105 on July 27, 2009, 12:35:19 PM
Yep the 109 flap control looks fast and convenient to me. I am very happy with the flap controls as HT has them myself.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Dadsguns on July 27, 2009, 01:52:02 PM
Tool, I know exactly what your saying.  It does seem to help in a tight turn to raise the nose up even when you got the stick all the way back.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Rich46yo on July 27, 2009, 03:00:36 PM
.....rope being let out.
Title: Re: Gaming the game
Post by: Motherland on July 27, 2009, 03:03:57 PM
When i was testing the 38 it seemed once I hit the K key and held it I was able to release almost all pressure from the stick and it did a perfect loop a lot faster and tighter than I could have manually.
So it's trim's fault you can't pull a proper loop in a P38?

Quote
EDIT IN BLUE

Another thing I just found out is that some of the best sticks in the game use the MAGIC K KEY to turn faster and tighter than most people when traveling AT TOP SPEED plus it will help you avoid auguring into the ground at high speed due to compression. Seems the K key over rules why we have compression in the first place and I'm not sure our guys had that ability in real life.


Although I wish I knew about it before I left the game and probably would have used it, I think it should be disabled. It's an unfair, game the game type advantage for those who know how to use it.

You didn't change your point here at all... you didn't missphrase anything the first time... the only thing you did here was try to mask your point and throw off responsibility for your what you actually mean by trying to be more vague. 'Suggesting' something instead of coming out and saying it. Like a politician :aok And it only works when you initially say something.

Anyway...
Quote
Seems the K key over rules why we have compression in the first place and I'm not sure our guys had that ability in real life.
It was used in real life, by 109 pilots at least.

"Sarantola recalled that the MT was a very stable plane, but not the most maneuverable. The stick forces were quite large and elevator trim was used quite frequently while maneuvering.
MT was easy to fly and overall a safe plane. Flying and landing was easy."
- Olli Sarantola, Finnish fighter pilot. Source: Blitz '01 - Meeting With The Veterans by Finnish Virtual Pilots Association.


Me 109 G-2/G-6:
- How heavy did the Me controls get at different speeds?
"It got heavy, but you could use the flettner. It was nothing special, but a big help.
Once in '43, there was a Boston III above the Gulf of Finland. I went after it, and we went to clouds at 500 meters. Climbing, climbing, climbing and climbing, all the way to seven kilometers, and it was just more and more clouds. It got so dark that I lost sight. I turned back down, and saw the Russkie diving too. Speed climbed to 700 km/h. I wondered how it'd turn out. I pulled with all my strength when emerging from the clouds, then used the flettner. I was 50 meters above sea when I got it to straighten out. "
- Did the roll capabilites change?
"Not so much. It got stiffer, but you still could bank. "
- Were you still in full control at high speeds, like at 600-700 km/h?
"Yes. "
- How about slow and medium speeds, could you do stunts?
"Yes, but it was heavier than the earlier planes (Fokker D.XXI, Curtiss Hawk 75). But better in combat. I got to fly the Hornet simulator last summer. That stick moved only little. "
- Mauno Fräntilä, Finnish fighter ace. 5 1/2 victories. Source: Interview by Finnish Virtual Pilots Association: Chief Warrant Officer Mauno Fräntilä.

(Something lost in translation here? I know he 109 had flettner trim tabs on the rudder but I thought the whole horizontal tailplane moved for elevator trim? I'm no expert on the subject...)


http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/#stickforce