Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SEraider on September 08, 2009, 11:10:59 AM
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Last night a friend and I helped improve my game a little more. I took film and had a discussion. I respect this man for his teaching. And yes, I am always looking for ways to improve.
This is for all you top of the pyramid guys: As I have, lets bring some of these 'n00bs' along and spend a little time in the TA or DA and show them a few things. There are some that complain that this game has gone down hill because of falling skill. Let's be proactive and help them along so we can enjoy the higher level together.
After you shoot them down, PM them with helpful hints and offer a helping hand. Make a new friends because we are a community.
That is all. :salute
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Last night a friend and I helped improve my game a little more. I took film and had a discussion. I respect this man for his teaching. And yes, I am always looking for ways to improve.
This is for all you top of the pyramid guys: As I have, lets bring some of these 'n00bs' along and spend a little time in the TA or DA and show them a few things. There are some that complain that this game has gone down hill because of falling skill. Let's be proactive and help them along so we can enjoy the higher level together.
After you shoot them down, PM them with helpful hints and offer a helping hand. Make a new friends because we are a community.
That is all. :salute
i do try to do that. i had offered guardian some teaching, as when he bombs, the only thing he hits is dirt. he hasn't taken me up on it yet, but if/when he does, i'll gladly spend some time in ta teaching him. :aok
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Last night a friend and I helped improve my game a little more. I took film and had a discussion. I respect this man for his teaching. And yes, I am always looking for ways to improve.
This is for all you top of the pyramid guys: As I have, lets bring some of these 'n00bs' along and spend a little time in the TA or DA and show them a few things. There are some that complain that this game has gone down hill because of falling skill. Let's be proactive and help them along so we can enjoy the higher level together.
After you shoot them down, PM them with helpful hints and offer a helping hand. Make a new friends because we are a community.
That is all. :salute
This works sometimes. There are many who do not wish to improve. Then there are some who take offense if you offer guidance.
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There are some that complain that this game has gone down hill because of falling skill.
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Actually I believe this standard gripe is waaaaay off base. This complaint is generated by quite the opposite of what is cited. It is the "natural course" of things that skill improves over time. The "top of pyramid" folks as you call them once upon a time, had their way doing all manner of things they complain about now. Newcomers had not the experience to differentiate tween good play and poor play, now that the whole community's skill level has improved "overall" it is much more difficult for the "top of the pyramid" folks to get away with the play they once enjoyed, having taught the rest of he community (by example) how to perform. Don't get me wrong, the "top of the pyramid" folks are extremely experienced and would trounce most others, but still doin all manner of distastefull game-play as always, as almost everyone here does at one time or another. The virtual skies are no longer the "uncontested" playground for the "top of the pyramid" folks and it weighs on them heavily IMO :aok
The days of trouncing "noob after noob" is officialy over! The game population has exploded and the skill level of that population has been increased as a result! Welcome to the new era of "competative" virtual flying :aok :salute
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This works sometimes. There are many who do not wish to improve. Then there are some who take offense if you offer guidance.
Yep. Can't hurt to send those PMs out when you never ran into the other guy though.
Actually I believe this standard gripe is waaaaay off base. This complaint is generated by quite the opposite of what is cited. It is the "natural course" of things that skill improves over time. The "top of pyramid" folks as you call them once upon a time, had their way doing all manner of things they complain about now. Newcomers had not the experience to differentiate tween good play and poor play, now that the whole community's skill level has improved "overall" it is much more difficult for the "top of the pyramid" folks to get away with the play they once enjoyed, having taught the rest of he community (by example) how to perform. Don't get me wrong, the "top of the pyramid" folks are extremely experienced and would trounce most others, but still doin all manner of distastefull game-play as always, as almost everyone here does at one time or another. The virtual skies are no longer the "uncontested" playground for the "top of the pyramid" folks and it weighs on them heavily IMO :aok
The days of trouncing "noob after noob" is officialy over! The game population has exploded and the skill level of that population has been increased as a result! Welcome to the new era of "competative" virtual flying :aok :salute
That's a piegon hole shreck... From day 1 I wanted to fight. I was in FFA H2H for whole nights back then. One of the reasons I can't play video games (other than PvP or coop) with my little brother is that he always plays things on the easiest mode... Total opposite from me. Anyway, point is that a substantial part of that top tier of AH gets no kick out of picking etc.
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doppleposten
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There are some that complain that this game has gone down hill because of falling skill.
Actually I believe this standard gripe is waaaaay off base. This complaint is generated by quite the opposite of what is cited. It is the "natural course" of things that skill improves over time. The "top of pyramid" folks as you call them once upon a time, had their way doing all manner of things they complain about now. Newcomers had not the experience to differentiate tween good play and poor play, now that the whole community's skill level has improved "overall" it is much more difficult for the "top of the pyramid" folks to get away with the play they once enjoyed, having taught the rest of he community (by example) how to perform. Don't get me wrong, the "top of the pyramid" folks are extremely experienced and would trounce most others, but still doin all manner of distastefull game-play as always, as almost everyone here does at one time or another. The virtual skies are no longer the "uncontested" playground for the "top of the pyramid" folks and it weighs on them heavily IMO :aok
The days of trouncing "noob after noob" is officialy over! The game population has exploded and the skill level of that population has been increased as a result! Welcome to the new era of "competative" virtual flying :aok :salute
I agree! :aok However; frame rate issues still henders me from improving in the dogfighting aspect as well as other pilots, I am sure.
But my knowledge of the game has grown immensely and I will answer any question I see on the country text as I see them and offer my services to all that want it. :salute
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Yep. Can't hurt to send those PMs out when you never ran into the other guy though.That's a piegon hole shreck... From day 1 I wanted to fight. I was in FFA H2H for whole nights back then. One of the reasons I can't play video games (other than PvP or coop) with my little brother is that he always plays things on the easiest mode... Total opposite from me. Anyway, point is that a substantial part of that top tier of AH gets no kick out of picking etc.
I never said peeps never wanted to fight, in fact I would say the potential thrill of of the "dogFIGHT" is the lure that brings (just about everyone) into this game.. Most if not all folks learn by example, this is true in this game as well. There is no official training program to get started and most folks just want to get in the mix as soon as possible, so spending large amounts of time in the TA is not realistic for most. Also those trainers are teaching basic game skills and to a lesser degree advanced theory and application, there are only so many trainers to handle a large population. So the consiquence is that most folks learn in the MA or on their own ( such is the case for me) and they learn by example from the actions they see and experience from the "top of the pyramid" folks! It is merely human nature to try and emulate those better than you untill you are equal to or better than them. So my point being is that the community has learned gameplay "by example" from the best and as a whole is still learning and striving to improve as they have experienced from the "top of the pyramid" population!
Back in the day when "top of the pyramid" folks reigned supreme I would bet most folks were actually in the "low end" of skill with even fewer "mediocre to good" and even less "excellent" Now I would say most of the population is "mediocre to good" with more "good to excellent" than there is "low end" skilled peeps. It is the natural course of improvement!
And I would say there is not a single player EVER that has not commited poor gameplay at one time or another. The difference being most of the population do not have the memories of "smacking baby noob seals" at will without someone gettin in their way :aok
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This is a great post! Lots of good can come out of this, Fly harder planes, get with better sticks, learn, learn. I would be willing to help any beginner although my acm skills are mediocre at best. If any of you top tier fellers ever want to go rounds, i want to get better.
<S> SThavoc
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Shreck that's not how I remember it.. It's always been a bottom heavy pyramid from what I recall. Lusche could probably best assess the stats one of these days, unless he already looked at this.
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Shreck I believe has got this spot on . If we just remain calm and answer a few questions from folks just starting out and be kind to them , it would go a long ways . If someone wants to go to the TA and work for a few minutes why not , it would save a noob hours of radio buffer questions I'm certain . When I started it always seemed as if for every 15 minutes of TA I could save 1.5 hours of MA time . I'm no great ACM or Top of the Pyramid guy by any means but for basic flight or start your comms session or simple things why not help a person and give a little back the other way , just like alot of you guys gave me .
Nutte :salute
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This works sometimes. There are many who do not wish to improve. Then there are some who take offense if you offer guidance.
You are absolutely right on this Shuffler and there will be some that take offense if you do. Very true although (knock on wood) that never happened to me yet. I am just making a generalization. But there are those that will listen.
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Back in the day when "top of the pyramid" folks reigned supreme I would bet most folks were actually in the "low end" of skill with even fewer "mediocre to good" and even less "excellent" Now I would say most of the population is "mediocre to good" with more "good to excellent" than there is "low end" skilled peeps. It is the natural course of improvement!
Of course, I can't say anything about absolute skill levels - nobody can, as you can hardly measure it.
But the pyramid in terms of K/D, the ratio of top "killers" to bottom "vitcims" hasn't changed that much over the past 7 years:
(...)
I sampled two tours, the last full tour (111) as well as one from the "glorious past" 7 years ago, tour 24.
Tour 111.
I found that
- only ~37% of all players managed to get a K/D better than 0.5
- only ~22% of all players reached 1.0 or better
- only 9% ended up with a K/D of 2.0 or better
- the 50% threshold was at about 0.3
Tour 24
If the general skill level at that time had really been much better back then (with more WWII aviation enthusiasts and much less "XBox/Quake gamers" as it's been frequently called), I would had expected a different, somewhat more balanced distribution. Of course, there would still had been a small number of players at the top getting high K/D's, but I would had expected a little bit more even numbers at the lower and medium ranks.
I found that
- about 37% of all players had a K/D better 0.5
- about 19% got 1.0 or better
- about 6% reached K/D 2.0 or better
- the 50% threshold was at about 0.27
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9825/tour24.jpg)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8917/tour111.jpg)
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If anything the skill depth as grown....judging solely from k/d though.
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I had a guy pm me the other day about dive bombing. He wasn't hittin anything, so I told him what I knew and it helped him. He kept asking and I kept answering. He was eating it up, helped him a lot it seems. He PMd me just this last week thanking me again for the help. Seems as if I created a bomb****, sorry GV guys :D
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Shreck I believe has got this spot on . If we just remain calm and answer a few questions from folks just starting out and be kind to them , it would go a long ways . If someone wants to go to the TA and work for a few minutes why not , it would save a noob hours of radio buffer questions I'm certain . When I started it always seemed as if for every 15 minutes of TA I could save 1.5 hours of MA time . I'm no great ACM or Top of the Pyramid guy by any means but for basic flight or start your comms session or simple things why not help a person and give a little back the other way , just like alot of you guys gave me .
Nutte :salute
I think this is great advice, but realize many new folks haven't got a clue what to ask and any "tips" from experienced folks may be well beyond them at their stage of skill. There are 2 things that have been absolute fact for me during my AH experience:
#1 - Whenever I have dueled someone who I am better than, I always voluntarily give them advice without having to be prompted! Hell during baldeagles recent dueling ladder contest I spent most of the 2nd fight of my 1st match helping my opponent to see the fight in a different way before sealing my victory!
#2 - Whenever I have dueled someone better than me (which is almost everyone) I have never recieved a single stitch of advice or incite into what I may be doing wrong ;) Not once!
So you see as we get better, if our wish is to have "higher quality" fights then we must put our money where our mouth is and step up to the plate voluntarily and give a hand :aok :aok :salute
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The OP has good intentions and while I may disagree with some of the other things said in this post,I couldnt agree more with SE.
I wont comment on quality of game play or the players but I will say as Nutte said 15 mins. in the TA will save hours of time in the MAs.
The problem I see is too many just dont want to spend time in the TA,why I'm not sure I could make a guess as to why but it would be biased by my oppinion.
Just yesterday I spent a mere 15 to 20 mins with a player who had the common problem of shaking a guy on his 6 and he left with atleast a few options and ideas that he could use.After that another player,who was listening in and watching said to me,wow that works pretty good,I would never have thought of it.
So I guess my point is,ya share your skills,help new players,be apart of the community and mostly have fun.Afterall isnt that what it's all about,having fun?? And if this is passed on all the rest will follow.
:salute
ps,I see the pyramid as heavily weighted to the bottom as well Moot!!
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Wow,
I shoulda waited and read Snails post,coulda left the ps out...... :rofl :rofl :rofl
Lusche as usual,excellent work! :aok
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#2 - Whenever I have dueled someone better than me (which is almost everyone) I have never recieved a single stitch of advice or incite into what I may be doing wrong ;) Not once!
Possibly he is still writing up his report. :P
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Great thread! This is what I created a squad for in the beginning to tell the truth,it's worked pretty well too,there's a couple of guys out there now that I can say I have taught and trained and have contributed to helping them become what they are now,it's a good feeling to have.
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Speaking Entirely fopr myself I welcome any and all help whenever possible so when i grow up and get better (three kills in the entire 8 months of play not including proximity and headons ) I want to come back and give the guys a whooping that gave it to me all in good clean fun like shuffler and drbone. This is a game with a big learning curve so if you ask me take a long trip and someone with you . it could be fun !!
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The problem with offering to take them to the TA, their ego gets in the way and insults start flying and blah blah blah. If someone really wants help, I'm willing to offer it, if not, I'm not going to go through the motions for kids that don't appreciate it...
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My squad for the most part recruit noobs. We ll grab guys that we see are havin trouble, and want to learn, they do well, don't get as discouraged and they stay in the game. Plus they make great bait.
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Plus they make great bait.
that's me. :rofl :rofl
:noid :noid
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Cap... you need to fly with us more in the LW... my kills are dropping off. Lazer makes lousy bait! :P
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This works sometimes. There are many who do not wish to improve. Then there are some who take offense if you offer guidance.
Had several of these experiences, still try though :aok
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Ha! Lazer worked for 4 for me last night. Then Lazer used one of my squaddies as bait for 4 more
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Possibly he is still writing up his report. :P
:rofl :confused: :mad: :(
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K/D is a very poor measure of a cartoon pilots skill level, and the "top of pyramid" folks know it! I'm very suprised you went that direction m00t! :huh
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None of my posts refer to k/d specifically, and Lusche himself also says that it's not a measure of skill. It does show the distributions of kills (which you'd mostly get from having more skill), to deaths (which you definitely can best avoid thanks to skill). Maybe Lusche had also recorded (not gonna ask him for extra chores :P) other stats like k/t and hit%.. I don't know what other record there could be to back you or I up. What do you remember that hinted at a different distribution?
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None of my posts refer to k/d specifically, and Lusche himself also says that it's not a measure of skill. It does show the distributions of kills (which you'd mostly get from having more skill), to deaths (which you definitely can best avoid thanks to skill). Maybe Lusche had also recorded (not gonna ask him for extra chores :P) other stats like k/t and hit%.. I don't know what other record there could be to back you or I up. What do you remember that hinted at a different distribution?
Probably just your call on luche and the info he posted! it just seemed to be going that direction :aok
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K/D is a very poor measure of a cartoon pilots skill level
For measuring individual skill: Yes. I already said that.
But it does tell a lot about the overall distribution of kills by (from? of? grammar anyone?) several thousand players. You can see it's always a very small minority of player killing everybody else. And that distribution, that pyramid, the gap between those "on top" and those at the bottom didn't change very much.
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Probably just your call on luche and the info he posted! it just seemed to be going that direction :aok
K/D isn't a poor measure of pilot skill. You can't reliably kill while not getting killed without being skilled. So the only reason k/d would be a poor gauge of overall skill in the MA would be false positives and false negatives.. You'd have to have few false negatives (skilled players with rubbish k/d - how?) and many false positives (how would they amount to a significant quantity (outnumber true positives)?)... to the point of turning that negative exponential curve into at least a slightly positive linear curve.
Grammar - From would mean the thousand players are distributing the kills.. By would mean about the same thing, or "by" as in divided by.. Of or for (or in) would probably be correct.
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How about a skilled pilot who likes to be in the furball... your going to get killed more often just by sheer numbers involved. If you kill more than your killed that is great. Your just not going to have a huge k/d though.
If one decided to increase that he could just be a little more timid and not get to see as much action and surely not as many fights.... good or bad. That does not make him a more skilled pilot nor will it increase his skill.
Just my thoughts!
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The unskilled timid player gets killed about as much as the skilled balls-out player, while not really getting that far ahead of the balls-out player in kills, in my experience. If they do, their k/t drops and kills total should also drop, but I don't think you could feasibly sample and cross-reference that.
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Last night a friend and I helped improve my game a little more. I took film and had a discussion. I respect this man for his teaching. And yes, I am always looking for ways to improve.
This is for all you top of the pyramid guys: As I have, lets bring some of these 'n00bs' along and spend a little time in the TA or DA and show them a few things. There are some that complain that this game has gone down hill because of falling skill. Let's be proactive and help them along so we can enjoy the higher level together.
After you shoot them down, PM them with helpful hints and offer a helping hand. Make a new friends because we are a community.
That is all. :salute
Thought this was one thing that came with being a CO of an AH squad?
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It's the rare noob that actually asks for help, beyond "how do I fly?". I'm in the TA daily so I know. It's normally the ones that have a little time in that hit a wall in their improvement that ask for help. Or the vets that want to learn a new aircraft or tactic. Or like me that are trying to improve upon a given aircraft.
:salute
BigRat
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The last time I read a post about how someone helped out a new guy and he thought it made his time playing the game better, I thought why don't I try it out with the next person who HOs me. Well sure enough finding a HOer is not very hard, and I found one very quickly.
First merge he HOed, same with 2nd and 3rd. After the 3rd one i was able to rope him and knocked him out. I PM'd he explaining that the HO wasn't the only move and he DID have other choices since I was flying very sloppy. His reply was "STFU you noob I've been playing this game for 4 months I think I know what I'm doing...."
I said ok and ended up shooting him down another 5-6 times in that furball, I got a nasty remark every time my name popped up in his text buffer. Because of that I only help if someone asks a question other than how do I fly and the such.
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Thought this was one thing that came with being a CO of an AH squad?
Although not part of the job description, I am referring more towards people outside the squad and even reaching across to other country's. To clarify. :aok
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I don't think much has changed in the percentage of good sticks vs bad sticks. The pyramid still looks the same, it's just a much bigger pyramid due to a much larger player base and a constant influx of new players combined with the burnout rate of older players.
It's harder for the "elite" to dominate just because of the pure numbers of people online. When there were 100 players total in the arena, you knew who everyone was and there wasn't a sufficient enough gang to counterbalance certain players abilities. Now at peak times that isn't the case.
However, in the mid or early war maps, or in the lw in off times, those certain players can and do dominate the newer or less skilled player quite easily.
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Tried this last night, got someone else jumping in, thought "sod it" and went to bed. Conversely, had other nights where I've tried to help out other players, and had a positive response.
Wurzel
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It's the rare noob that actually asks for help, beyond "how do I fly?". I'm in the TA daily so I know. It's normally the ones that have a little time in that hit a wall in their improvement that ask for help. Or the vets that want to learn a new aircraft or tactic. Or like me that are trying to improve upon a given aircraft.
:salute
BigRat
i think a "wall" is about the only thing i DON'T hit.
i hit the trees, the ground, the water, other planes, buildings, but no walls. :D :aok
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i think a "wall" is about the only thing i DON'T hit.
i hit the trees, the ground, the water, other planes, buildings, but no walls. :D :aok
Liar, I saw you hit a bridge once......... :D :salute
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Liar, I saw you hit a bridge once......... :D :salute
Which reminds me... DO NOT TRY TO FLY UNDER A BRIDGE.... it no worky :P
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Especially in a 262 - as Kazaa found out (sorry Kaz, but I just had to)
;)
Wurzel
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I think lending a hand is a good idea, and I can tell you that SEraider has done so with me a number of times for no reason other than he simply want to. The other issue Moot was talking about help me understand a few things about ah gameplay I was missing. I can tell you from personal knowledge that flight in this game and real flight do not compare. In fact if you flew a real plane the way many do in here your brains would be spread all over the inside of your cock pit. G force is a squeak! Also when I get killed in this game I don't actually die, I get a fresh plane and a new shot at the guys who just shot me down. If you want a high score then you can get one by understanding the features of this cartoon world and using them to your advantage. If you want to defend base being attacked in force then you get an endless supply of fresh Zeros. Basically if you are smilng when you hit the quit button you had a good night in the friendly skies. When givin the chance choose to help players who fly your style at least and pay attention to Widewing!!!
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It's the rare noob that actually asks for help, beyond "how do I fly?". I'm in the TA daily so I know. It's normally the ones that have a little time in that hit a wall in their improvement that ask for help. Or the vets that want to learn a new aircraft or tactic. Or like me that are trying to improve upon a given aircraft.
:salute
BigRat
I think some need to get a little experience under their belt before thay can even comprehend what a trainer can teach them.
So do you spend time in the T/A, or get some time in the M/A so you can determine what you most need to work on?
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I think it depends. Probably both at the same time.
My advice for n00bs are to leave stall limiter on for the 1st 6 months, then turn it off. I know some would say turn it off from day 1, but i'm afraid that the game would become too frustrating for those trying to test envelopes of planes, stalling out, then getting frustrated.
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I prefer starting them off without stall limiter. If they require stall limiter you don't want them on it too long. It will instill some very bad habits. Habits that take a long time to break.
Stall limiter will simply make them ham fisted.
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I've been playing for 6months and I can tell you going to the DA with the top tier players has helped me leaps and bounds. Rud3boi, grizz, sunsfan have all spent some time in the DA with me, but honestly I didn't really understand what they were trying to teach me until lately. I've watched films by m00t, shreck, agent360 and ate up all I could. But the best teacher is definately experience, knowing when to chop throttle or when to set up your reversal are very hard things to try to teach someone. I've spent nights in the DA just getting into vertical scissors and trying to better understand how in the hell they flip their planes over so quickly. More time with you stick in your hands (as long as you apply yourself) the better you will be in my opinion.
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More time with you stick in your hands (as long as you apply yourself) the better you will be in my opinion.
I'm surprised I'm not better already.
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For me there are just too many people now. I cant remember everyone like in the old days. A little bit of the feeling of playing against real people is lost and everyone becomes a number. If HTC were to play a trick on us and fill 1/2 the arena with AI planes with fake names, I bet few of us would know the difference.
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I'm surprised I'm not better already.
I see now i should have phrased it differently!
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I prefer starting them off without stall limiter. If they require stall limiter you don't want them on it too long. It will instill some very bad habits. Habits that take a long time to break.
Stall limiter will simply make them ham fisted.
I've been playin with the stall limiter on ever since I started,I may as well try without it now,now that I know about it,haha
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My advice for n00bs are to leave stall limiter on for the 1st 6 months, then turn it off. I know some would say turn it off from day 1, but i'm afraid that the game would become too frustrating for those trying to test envelopes of planes, stalling out, then getting frustrated.
The contrary view is that they should simply move on to another game if they expect to be good from the start. This is a hard game to learn. That means you're going to lose all of your fights for quite a long while as you learn. If you aren't prepared to go through that boot camp phase, you probably aren't going to enjoy the game.
Disclaimer: the views expressed herein are those of Oldman, and only of Oldman.
- oldman
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k/d is an important tool to mesure skill, even when you are semi skilled and fight loosing fights like I often do your k/d should be over 2.0, or you did get vulched a lot of times. Hit% is a great indicator too, I'd like to see stats on that :)
as a sidenote, top pyramid guys should organise trainings to complete their domination :t
As you get better, getting training is more diffcult so enjoy your noob time :D M00t I need training btw, I tried improving my engine control since the last time you kicked me butt in the DA !
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Disclaimer: the views expressed herein are those of Oldman, and only of Oldman.
- oldman
Hate to say it sir, but that statement is inaccurate... I happen to know someone who shares those views, so they're not only yours. You'll just have to share! :aok
I think it's great that so many in here are willing to help others enjoy the game, by helping them learn the various aspects. There's so much to learn, and so few that are willing and able to teach.
When it comes to the stall limiter, etc, I can say from experience that it's often more difficult to teach someone the "right" way to do things, when habits have already been formed by doing things the "wrong" way.
Specifically with the stall limiter, I've had several lessons that were basically "wasted" because someone came to me to learn better combat skills, and I found they had the limiter enabled and had been using it for some time. Right away, on the first merge, it's obvious what's going on, and they'll never be able to compete at the level they're striving for with the limiter enabled. I explain, and they disable it. Merge #2, and guess what, they're flopping into the ground, because they have habits already formed. They don't know how to fly the "edge", and don't know how to recover when they step across it.
At that point, we're no longer looking at learning "advanced" combat, but are back to basics, with the person just following me around, learning the edge, and learning to recover. That's ok, I'll work with pretty much any skill level lower or equal to my own, but it sure feels like a big step backward, instead of the anticipated step forward. And how long will it take to become comfortable with the absence of the limiter? And when can we re-schedule a meeting?
It's even worse when we do re-schedule, and I immediately find that my student has re-enabled the limiter, because he/she was having too much difficulty with it disabled. Now what?
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K/D- It does show the distributions of kills (which you'd mostly get from having more skill), to deaths (which you definitely can best avoid thanks to skill).
Some will not agree, however this information is a piece, a crumb of the whole picture of the community.
I don't believe that K/D is a measure of skill, it simply states a ratio and does not reflect purely skill.
If you believe this information to be absolute, than you must also use the K/D to measure other things, say timidness in fighting, fly in a horde only, sacrifices the lesser skilled more often than not for the kill, fly high above the perch, will not mix it up, and many more imaginative assertions.
IMO
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Some will not agree, however this information is a piece, a crumb of the whole picture of the community.
I don't believe that K/D is a measure of skill, it simply states a ratio and does not reflect purely skill.
If you believe this information to be absolute, than you must also use the K/D to measure other things, say timidness in fighting, fly in a horde only, sacrifices the lesser skilled more often than not for the kill, fly high above the perch, will not mix it up, and many more imaginative assertions.
IMO
:aok
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But the best teacher is definately experience.
:aok :salute
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I think some need to get a little experience under their belt before thay can even comprehend what a trainer can teach them.
So do you spend time in the T/A, or get some time in the M/A so you can determine what you most need to work on?
We have trainers that are good at teaching the basics and those that are good at teaching the more advanced stuff. Going from the gammet of how to take off, to teaching a split S into a barrell roll defence. So I think trainers can be helpfull at any stage, and are far under utilized by the general aces high population.
I spend most of my time in the TA, normally work for an hour a day mostly with the hog. I have a couple of students I'm working with mostly on tues. and thur. nights (I'm not an official trainer but I enjoy helping others). What do I work on normally myself, mostly stall recovery and pushing the envelope of what it will and won't do. If you push it beyond it's limit enough times it teaches you two things. One, where the limit is and two, how to recover quickly from passing it. Both important in a close quarters fight. I know what I need to work on in the normal MA's, but training can't fix stupid :lol, becouse that's how I normally get myself killed. Those that know me and fly against me in the TA know I can handle myself in a hog exremely well, so when I die in an aircraft in the MA's it's normally an SA mistake, or I was trying to accomplish the mission (eg. I know there are five fighters over the vbase but I'm dropping that VH with my A20 full of eggs anyway). Or my most likely cause of death trying to save a squaddie who already did something silly. I've had months where I get the 3-5 k/d ratio, but that was a different kind of fighting where I tended not to put myself in poor positions, and tended to come into fights with superior E advantage and always had an exit plan. I don't fight as "smart" now as I used to but I have more fun and am a far better stick now then I was with the much higher K/D ratios of years past. So I'm kinda like my German Shepard in the fact that I know what I should be doing, but I don't alwayd do it. How do I know my German Shepard knows what he should be doing at all times, simple if I put the shock collar on him he does everything perfect (I never even turn it on, battery shot craps years ago but he remembers it from a puppy :lol).
I just reread your post and I think I took your question the wrong way. I thought you were talking specifically me in the TA or MA, but now that I reread it I think you were going for a general question as to where to learn what you are doing wrong. I'm of the belief that you should learn as much about something as you can before jumping in. So I think spending time in the TA is where you should start. Get the basics as far as dogfighting, following a target with your views, learning what an aircraft will and won't do compared to others, etc, should be the first step. Then head to the MA's, this way when you start to get beat you can better understand why you got beat (if you didn't see how the guy got on your six, it's pretty hard to figure out a counter to it). Also you will be better able to tell trainers what happened and what problem you had. This way they can better teach you how to remedy the situation in the future. There's not just trainers in the TA, people in their run the gammett from noobs to old vets, a lot of the best sticks in the game come in there from time to time, and most are very willing to talk and help you with problems (especially if it is their preferred aircraft).
:salute
BigRat
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Hate to say it sir, but that statement is inaccurate... I happen to know someone who shares those views, so they're not only yours. You'll just have to share! :aok
I think it's great that so many in here are willing to help others enjoy the game, by helping them learn the various aspects. There's so much to learn, and so few that are willing and able to teach.
When it comes to the stall limiter, etc, I can say from experience that it's often more difficult to teach someone the "right" way to do things, when habits have already been formed by doing things the "wrong" way.
Specifically with the stall limiter, I've had several lessons that were basically "wasted" because someone came to me to learn better combat skills, and I found they had the limiter enabled and had been using it for some time. Right away, on the first merge, it's obvious what's going on, and they'll never be able to compete at the level they're striving for with the limiter enabled. I explain, and they disable it. Merge #2, and guess what, they're flopping into the ground, because they have habits already formed. They don't know how to fly the "edge", and don't know how to recover when they step across it.
At that point, we're no longer looking at learning "advanced" combat, but are back to basics, with the person just following me around, learning the edge, and learning to recover. That's ok, I'll work with pretty much any skill level lower or equal to my own, but it sure feels like a big step backward, instead of the anticipated step forward. And how long will it take to become comfortable with the absence of the limiter? And when can we re-schedule a meeting?
It's even worse when we do re-schedule, and I immediately find that my student has re-enabled the limiter, because he/she was having too much difficulty with it disabled. Now what?
When you talk of ACM's, that is a valid point. But even then, it really depends on the priority of the palyer itself.
What I mean is when I 1st started playing, my concern was not so much ACM's, but bombing, dive bombing, BnZ; basic role playing kinda stuff. When I was ready to move on to more challenging things, then I took the limiter off.
My point is that the curve for a new player is high enough and pushing that edge is really unessary for the 1st few months until they can handle 'higher' education.
I just wonder if stall limiter was not there, how many new players would be discouraged and quit? What does the community think??
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In reference to the pyramid you guys were talking about.
I just watched a show where a pilot who flew F86s in Korea was being interviewed.He said around 10% of the guys wanted to get in there and kill migs another 10% would get some kind of mechanical trouble and go home early and the other 80% were more or less along for the ride.I have also read that it is usually a small number of pilots racking up most of the kills.This seems to hold true for any air force you look at even over different conflicts.Its interesting that our stats seem to mirror this.Considering its just a game and our lives are not on the line I would have thought it to be different.I would have thought that the kills would be spread out a lot more in AH.
Pipz
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When I am killed I tend to spread out over a large area...