Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: BnZs on September 19, 2009, 09:21:30 PM
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Be nice to have one. Anyone know any legitimate candidates? And before anyone brings it up, the P-47M does not count because it would not be superior enough under MA conditions to deserve perkage.
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P-51H, and P-47M would be perk worthy
IMO
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P-51H, and P-47M would be perk worthy
IMO
P-47M at typical MA alts would essentially have the speed of the P-47N while handling more like the D-40...IOW a slightly better turning N model...not even remotely perkworthy compared to some free stuff in the LWMA.
I thought the P-51H didn't make the cutoff...
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The P-51H made combat sorties. And made one of HTC's public polls for next late war inclusion.
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The P-51H made combat sorties. And made one of HTC's public polls for next late war inclusion.
Well...that will give new meaning to the term "Runstang". 50 mph faster at all alts in wep. Of course, this will mean the 262's will have to be a little more careful.
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A-26 or B-29 leap out as the obvious candidates for a perked USAAF plane.
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Well...that will give new meaning to the term "Runstang". 50 mph faster at all alts in wep. Of course, this will mean the 262's will have to be a little more careful.
:aok
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Well...that will give new meaning to the term "Runstang". 50 mph faster at all alts in wep. Of course, this will mean the 262's will have to be a little more careful.
I vote the P-51H. I'm not really a runstang guy. I prefer to stay in there and slug it out to kill those 2 more guys attacking my squadies. Lol the P-51H would be the fastest non perked ride in the game then, correct?
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The P-51H made combat sorties. And made one of HTC's public polls for next late war inclusion.
Mostly shake down missions as the P-51H equipped units in the PTO were pretty much ramping up to operational status when the war ended. Don't think it ever fired its guns in anger during the war.
ack-ack
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Yes, yes, I know, I know...... The F7F never saw combat in the war..... Even though it was delivered to USMC units prior to the end of the war. But aside from such a change being made (Then also add the F8F), there are few American craft that would make for a valid perk cost...........
Maybe the Black Widow is worth a small perk. If the 51H were added it should get perked. But other then that.......... :uhoh
Don't think the A26 should be. :frown:
Did the 2x 20mm 4x .50 version of the F6F see enough usage?
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Yes, yes, I know, I know...... The F7F never saw combat in the war..... Even though it was delivered to USMC units prior to the end of the war. But aside from such a change being made (Then also add the F8F), there are few American craft that would make for a valid perk cost...........
Maybe the Black Widow is worth a small perk. If the 51H were added it should get perked. But other then that.......... :uhoh
Don't think the A26 should be. :frown:
Did the 2x 20mm 4x .50 version of the F6F see enough usage?
AFAIK the only F6Fs that fielded cannon were a VERY small number of F6F-5Ns. Most of them were armed with the 6x.50cal for logistics purposes.
I don't see the P-61 being perked. AWESOME firepower, but would the performance justify it? She'd basically be a lot like the Bf-110.
Also, the P-51H never saw combat, even if it was deployed in small numbers to front-line units, and none of those were being flown operationally so I don't think it should be added. Otherwise we WOULD need to include the F7F and F8F, which were loaded up with carriers en route to the Pacific when the war ended.
I do think the A26 would merit a small bomber perk, maybe not a significant one, but it should be there.
The truth is, the only REAL options for a perked USAAF ride are the A-26, and the hated B-29.
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A-26 or B-29 leap out as the obvious candidates for a perked USAAF plane.
a moment of silence for my wife's cat.
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Yes, yes, I know, I know...... The F7F never saw combat in the war..... Even though it was delivered to USMC units prior to the end of the war. But aside from such a change being made (Then also add the F8F), there are few American craft that would make for a valid perk cost...........
Maybe the Black Widow is worth a small perk. If the 51H were added it should get perked. But other then that.......... :uhoh
Don't think the A26 should be. :frown:
Did the 2x 20mm 4x .50 version of the F6F see enough usage? Yes there were units in the navy that used them but only for sp :rockecial occasions but it was involved in escorting the TBMs and SBDs during the coral sea battle :aok
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Meanwhile, we're running the BoB without the He-111, again.
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And there is always the Gloster Meteor, which would be an appropriate counter-part to the reigning Me262.
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HE-111
Ju87-G1
Oh this isn't about the Germans, Um how about thee P-38K?
:noid
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And there is always the Gloster Meteor, which would be an appropriate counter-part to the reigning Me262.
Which once again never actually saw combat.
You're opening up a RIDICULOUS can of worms if you start to let stuff in like that.
I think HTC has the right approach, and that means just-a-bit-too-late birds like the P-51H, Meteor, F7F and F8F don't have a place in the game.
Shamrock,
WILL YOU STOP POSTING? The US Navy didn't even HAVE the F6F or TBM at Coral Sea. The TBM didn't see its first combat (only SIX of them at that) until Midway. The F6F didn't until September 1943.
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The truth is, the only REAL options for a perked USAAF ride are the A-26, and the hated B-29.
Ahem. I believe that there is a contender for a USAAF perked fighter, the 20mm armed P-51. Now I know much-ado has been a-done regarding this bird (mostly negatives); so if you want to think of this offering as bait and reply with blah-blah-blah, go right ahead.
I have a 102 degree fever, my head hurts, my stomach is rebelling, my bowels are fluxing, and my nose is dripping snot like Victoria Falls drips water. Go ahead and flame me, you won't make me feel any worse than I do and my meds will keep me from seeing reality from your POV.
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A-26 or B-29 leap out as the obvious candidates for a perked USAAF plane.
It hurts me deep inside when you say things like that Karnak :devil....another buff *groan*
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Ahem. I believe that there is a contender for a USAAF perked fighter, the 20mm armed P-51. Now I now much-ago has been a-done regarding this bird (mostly negatives); so if you want to think of this offering as bait and reply with blah-blah-blah, go right ahead.
The only 20mm armed P-51 was the Allison equipped Mustang Mk1 optimized for low altitude flying.
Its performance was hardly note worthy, as it looked and behaved more like a P-40.
As far as I know anyway, also I am not aware of any field mods but dont have much data on that.
Oh this isn't about the Germans, Um how about thee P-38K?
You mean a plane that had only one official prototype built? With no known pictures existing....
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Looks like the only possibility might be something with higher allowable MP settings to reflect the use of 150 octane.
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Did the 2x 20mm 4x .50 version of the F6F see enough usage? Yes there were units in the navy that used them but only for sp :rockecial occasions but it was involved in escorting the TBMs and SBDs during the coral sea battle
Jebus :lol
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The only 20mm armed P-51 was the Allison equipped Mustang Mk1 optimized for low altitude flying.
Its performance was hardly note worthy, as it looked and behaved more like a P-40.
Hogwash (supply your performance data sources and I'll be glad to omit the "hogwash"). It was more akin to a B model Pony than a P-40 and it weighed in at 600lbs less than a Pony-B too; and low-alt is where most players spend their time anyhow, so that part is actually a BONUS. Also, unless my meds are making me delusional, it was a Mustang Mk.1A in the British parlance. This would make it perk-worthy for MW; I guess it would be free in LW. Lastly to consider: Were the 57 F-6a converted from the 150 P-51/Mustang Mk.1a, conversions from other models, or new builds?
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Um how about thee P-38K?
:noid
Only SAPP members of the Consortium of 12 are allowed to mention the P-38K, and they would be the only ones permitted to fly it. :devil
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A-26
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Only SAPP members of the Consortium of 12 are allowed to mention the P-38K, and they would be the only ones permitted to fly it. :devil
Untill I blatantly disregard orders from the SAPP CO and take out the P-38K.
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Untill I blatantly disregard orders from the SAPP CO and take out the P-38K.
Not likely, since you have no idea where the SAPP hangar of secret weapons is, never mind how to gain entrance. :noid
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A-26 is not worthy of being perked. Maybe if there was an arena that had only bombers it should be perked. But in no way would an A-26 have a chance against the swarms of 5 eny uber-planes that rule the sky in LW.
DuHasst
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Not likely, since you have no idea where the SAPP hangar of secret weapons is, never mind how to gain entrance. :noid
haha. Fools, I have an informant among you ranks. And the simpilest way to gain enterance to your hanger is with the proper application of high explosives. However this would alert you to my presence and likely destroy the aircraft contained with your hanger. The next easiest way to gain enterance into your hanger would be to follow you with my P-51 possesing supperior range. I will then land at an undisclosed location, and infiltrate your hagers take off and return to friendly airspace in three...two...one... I now have acces to the elusive P-38K.
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haha. Fools, I have an informant among you ranks. And the simpilest way to gain enterance to your hanger is with the proper application of high explosives. However this would alert you to my presence and likely destroy the aircraft contained with your hanger. The next easiest way to gain enterance into your hanger would be to follow you with my P-51 possesing supperior range. I will then land at an undisclosed location, and infiltrate your hagers take off and return to friendly airspace in three...two...one... I now have acces to the elusive P-38K.
Sad, delusions of grandeur are so very sad. But common among P-51 pilots.
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you'll be laughing out your other mouth when you count your planes :P.
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Which once again never actually saw combat.
You're opening up a RIDICULOUS can of worms if you start to let stuff in like that.
It did see combat. Repeating falsehoods over and over does not make them true.
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you'll be laughing out your other mouth when you count your planes :P.
SAPP doesn't have whole planes...just lots of spare and scrap parts.
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I vote the P-51H. I'm not really a runstang guy. I prefer to stay in there and slug it out to kill those 2 more guys attacking my squadies. Lol the P-51H would be the fastest non perked ride in the game then, correct?
It would have to be perked. The only aircraft faster would be the 163 and 262.
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SAPP doesn't have whole planes...just lots of spare and scrap parts.
Not anymore they don't. That was a BIG explosion. Amasing what a cannon round frome a P-38K will do to fuel.
It would have to be perked. The only aircraft faster would be the 163 and 262.
So it would be perked along lines of the F4U-4, or more like 50 or so perks? What are we talking?
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So it would be perked along lines of the F4U-4, or more like 50 or so perks? What are we talking?
Really not sure. The real difference from the D is the WEP. It could do about 420 on the deck in wep, about 460 at 10k in wep, but you would have a big loss outside of wep.
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How fast is the D on the deck and at 10k? I always thought the D did best at around 20k. But maybe I'm wrong. Well anyway, if it suffers greatly without WEP then it should be perked around the same F4U IC, as, unless it's WEP is different from the other pony's, WEP will last only around 5 minutes. So if I understand correctly, the H will have about 5 minutes to fly in, kill, and get out before it runs outa WEP and suffers a drop in preformance.
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How fast is the D on the deck and at 10k? I always thought the D did best at around 20k. But maybe I'm wrong. Well anyway, if it suffers greatly without WEP then it should be perked around the same F4U IC, as, unless it's WEP is different from the other pony's, WEP will last only around 5 minutes. So if I understand correctly, the H will have about 5 minutes to fly in, kill, and get out before it runs outa WEP and suffers a drop in preformance.
With the P-51D and H, both in WEP, the H model is 50 mph faster, at all altitudes.
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So the D is 370 at sea level? not bad. Maby I WILL start using the runstang tactic I it's clear I can't do anything more usefull.
Well anyway, it seems like a 15-20 perk price would seem reasonable when everything is even.
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Perked USAAF plane?
P-51D
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P-51D
:rolleyes:
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;)
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It did see combat. Repeating falsehoods over and over does not make them true.
http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index.php?module=see&lang=uk&code=a62ce201f2faf028473747cce6fd8415
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Mustang III (british 51 B). Brits modified it to chace V1s. would do 450mph @ 5k
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So the D is 370 at sea level? not bad. Maby I WILL start using the runstang tactic I it's clear I can't do anything more usefull.
Well anyway, it seems like a 15-20 perk price would seem reasonable when everything is even.
Strange, from your earlier posts, I wouldn' think you'd have to "run" from
anything :rolleyes:
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I usually dont. With my break, I lost almost all ability to tell when it was time to leave :devil.
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We all know the P-38 is the best plane and the P-51H would be turned into this
(http://i.pbase.com/g3/88/639288/2/56216469.P51H.jpg)
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Makes one wonder if the P-51H was such an improvement over the P-51D, why was it not considered suitable for combat in Korea? Hint, it was not because of the greater availability of the D Mustang.
Also, imagine if the plans for the P-51L were carried out with the V-1650-11 engine with a Stromberg speed/density injection-type carburetor and was rated at a peak power of 2270 hp with water injection. Sadly, the order for 1700 were cancelled and not one was ever built.
ack-ack
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We all know the P-38 is the best plane and the P-51H would be turned into this
(image removed)
The P-38 is a great plane. Just because it's 100 mph slower than the P-51H doesn't mean squat... :rofl
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Strange, from your earlier posts, I wouldn' think you'd have to "run" from
anything :rolleyes:
Rino that went Hi alt and was missed!!!! :rofl :rofl :rofl
It did however crack me up. :aok
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We all know the P-38 is the best plane and the P-51H would be turned into this
(http://i.pbase.com/g3/88/639288/2/56216469.P51H.jpg)
Best plane my ass. If its YOU'RE best plane then fine, but really, its not the BEST. It's best at certian things, but not even close to everything.
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Makes one wonder if the P-51H was such an improvement over the P-51D, why was it not considered suitable for combat in Korea? Hint, it was not because of the greater availability of the D Mustang.
Also, imagine if the plans for the P-51L were carried out with the V-1650-11 engine with a Stromberg speed/density injection-type carburetor and was rated at a peak power of 2270 hp with water injection. Sadly, the order for 1700 were cancelled and not one was ever built.
ack-ack
Sadly indeed. It's a conspiracy :noid.....
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The P-38 is a great plane. Just because it's 100 mph slower than the P-51H doesn't mean squat... :rofl
The P-51H was capable of 542MPH? :rofl
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Best plane my ass. If its YOU'RE best plane then fine, but really, its not the BEST. It's best at certian things, but not even close to everything.
P-38 was a jack of all trades. While it was not a master in one particular area, it was good in all areas.
ack-ack
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The P-51H was capable of 542MPH? :rofl
And you claim the P-38 could do 442 mph? Not in this game it can't. Try again, and yes, I was exaggerating for clarity, and perhaps a little fun.
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And you claim the P-38 could do 442 mph? Not in this game it can't. Try again, and yes, I was exaggerating for clarity, and perhaps a little fun.
Edit: Savage beat me to it with more accurate info.
*shakes fist at Savage*
ack-ack
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And you claim the P-38 could do 442 mph? Not in this game it can't. Try again, and yes, I was exaggerating for clarity, and perhaps a little fun.
Yes, the P-38L-5-Lo could reach 442MPH in level flight at critical altitude, as per the Lockheed spec, with the Lockheed/Allison factory tune up, 72" MAP and 3400 RPM. Not a claim, but rather a fact, according to Lockheed engineer Warren Bodie, author of "The Lockheed P-38 Lightning", and he has the Lockheed test papers. The P-38L in the game operates only at "military power" and not War Emergency Power as modeled in AH II, the military power setting in the game is incorrect, and the War Emergency Power setting in the game is actually military power for the -30 Allisons in the P-38L.
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If this is the case why hasn't the "proof" made it to HTC?
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If this is the case why hasn't the "proof" made it to HTC?
I'm sure it has. However, the USAAF, at least on paper, did not use the Lockheed/Allison settings. As such, HTC chose not to use them either.
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The only 20mm armed P-51 was the Allison equipped Mustang Mk1 optimized for low altitude flying.
Its performance was hardly note worthy, as it looked and behaved more like a P-40.
As far as I know anyway, also I am not aware of any field mods but dont have much data on that.
You mean a plane that had only one official prototype built? With no known pictures existing....
Actually the British took the very first Mustang Mk.I into trials and found it to be lacking above medium altitude but superior even to the Spitfire at low altitudes. Of course that was early on and the Spitfire went on to evolve further. It would be very interesting in the mid and late war arenas.
North American was first approached by the British to build Spitfires and Atwood purchased the plans and rights from Curtiss for $50000 but Kindelberger acting on his own initiative offered the British a new design to be constructed within 100-120 days (with quite a bit of latitude allowed). The result came in 117 days and was so very similar to the Curtiss XP-46 project that Curtiss was calling foul and there has been wild speculations ever since. History is a pretty good indication that it was all untrue in that the XP-46 was a failure and the XP-51 Apache (the first ever USAAF designation) was a brilliant success.
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Makes one wonder if the P-51H was such an improvement over the P-51D, why was it not considered suitable for combat in Korea? Hint, it was not because of the greater availability of the D Mustang.
ack-ack
Ok sorry to use wiki, but it makes some sense...
Wiki Quote
During the Korean War, F-51s, though obsolete as fighters, were used as close ground-support aircraft and reconnaissance aircraft until the end of the war in 1953[45]. Because of its lighter structure and less availability of spare parts, the newer, faster F-51H was not used in Korea. With the aircraft being used for ground attack, their performance was less of a concern than their ability to carry a load.
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Actually the British took the very first Mustang Mk.I into trials and found it to be lacking above medium altitude but superior even to the Spitfire at low altitudes. Of course that was early on and the Spitfire went on to evolve further. It would be very interesting in the mid and late war arenas.
North American was first approached by the British to build P-40s and Atwood purchased the plans and rights from Curtiss for $50000 but Kindelberger acting on his own initiative offered the British a new design to be constructed within 100-120 days (with quite a bit of latitude allowed). The result came in 117 days and was so very similar to the Curtiss XP-46 project that Curtiss was calling foul and there has been wild speculations ever since. History is a pretty good indication that it was all untrue in that the XP-46 was a failure and the XP-51 Apache (the first ever USAAF designation) was a brilliant success.
Fixed.
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Meteor please, it would increase AH2's epeen by a ton!
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Ok sorry to use wiki, but it makes some sense...
Wiki Quote
During the Korean War, F-51s, though obsolete as fighters, were used as close ground-support aircraft and reconnaissance aircraft until the end of the war in 1953[45]. Because of its lighter structure and less availability of spare parts, the newer, faster F-51H was not used in Korea. With the aircraft being used for ground attack, their performance was less of a concern than their ability to carry a load.
It's a pity that the P-47 was not retained for this role instead of the P-51.
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Just make an exception for the Bearcat and be done with it.
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Just make an exception for the Bearcat and be done with it.
Bearcat or Tigercat would be interesting as exceptions....but they would do nothing for getting a perked USAAF airplane into the game as they were both Navy/Marine birds, and we already have a couple perked US Navy/Marine birds.
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Meanwhile, we're running the BoB without the He-111, again.
Or the (admittedly much less widely used) Dornier...
I don't see equal validity to the two. However, I think the Dornier needs a place at the table - especially given the later variants.
Bottom line: what planes DON'T we want added? More is always better. Even if it's Battles and Fulmars...
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Or the (admittedly much less widely used) Dornier...
I don't see equal validity to the two. However, I think the Dornier needs a place at the table - especially given the later variants.
Bottom line: what planes DON'T we want added? More is always better. Even if it's Battles and Fulmars...
The Do17 and Do217 may look similar, but they are 100% separate designs.
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The Do17 and Do217 may look similar, but they are 100% separate designs.
Correct and acknowledged, but what about the Kauz II (Z-10), Do215 and 215-based Kauz III (ro)? They both saw service (the export model in significant numbers) and the Kauz were hard-nosed NJ versions.
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If we ever do get the Do17, I would be very surprised if any version other than the Do17Z were added, ever.
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We totally need to get that DO17..... It's one of the best American aircraft of the war. :uhoh
If we ever do get the Do17, I would be very surprised if any version other than the Do17Z were added, ever.
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We totally need to get that DO17..... It's one of the best American aircraft of the war. :uhoh
Skuzzy, I hereby report Logan for hijacking this thread.
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:rofl
Skuzzy, I hereby report Logan for hijacking this thread.
:x
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Yes, the P-38L-5-Lo could reach 442MPH in level flight at critical altitude, as per the Lockheed spec, with the Lockheed/Allison factory tune up, 72" MAP and 3400 RPM. Not a claim, but rather a fact, according to Lockheed engineer Warren Bodie, author of "The Lockheed P-38 Lightning", and he has the Lockheed test papers. The P-38L in the game operates only at "military power" and not War Emergency Power as modeled in AH II, the military power setting in the game is incorrect, and the War Emergency Power setting in the game is actually military power for the -30 Allisons in the P-38L.
I'll be happy to let you prove that statement. Until then, most, if not all, reputable sources put the P-38L at 414 mph and the P-51H at 490 mph
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P-38 was a jack of all trades. While it was not a master in one particular area, it was good in all areas.
ack-ack
Yes, thats what I said. It's not the BEST in any area I can think of (if you can then please correct me), but its still a great plane. Just that its not the BEST. Many well rounded planes, but most if not all are more tailored to a specific area then the 38, while still being about as good as the 38 in other areas.
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I'll be happy to let you prove that statement. Until then, most, if not all, reputable sources put the P-38L at 414 mph and the P-51H at 490 mph
Most sources use military power for the P-38L, and never give a spec for it at War Emergency Power. In fact, I'll let you drag out any chart that shows a P-38L having a top speed of 414MPH at WEP. Because I've never seen a chart that lists that. They all show the P-38L between 412MPH and 420MPH at military power, not WEP. Do you really think the P-38L is slower than the P-38J, despite having considerably more power and very little more weight?
I have no need to prove that statement, others have proven it several times over, here and elsewhere. And there likely is no more reputable source on the P-38 than Bodie, he had access to every piece of data, as well as working with, for decades, the engineers and staff who ran the P-38 project, including the man behind the plane, Clarence "Kelly" Johnson.
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I'll be happy to let you prove that statement. Until then, most, if not all, reputable sources put the P-38L at 414 mph and the P-51H at 490 mph
IIRC, the P-38L was capable of 443MPH TAS at 28,000ft with WEP.
ack-ack
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Meanwhile, we're running the BoB without the He-111, again.
I agree. We dont *need* any more US aircraft atm, imo. YMMV. :)
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I agree. We dont *need* any more US aircraft atm, imo. YMMV. :)
We don't *need*AHII, microwave popcorn, or internet porn, but...
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P-47M - a D-25 with the N's motor, and sans pylons. Thing would SCREAM down low, and even better up high.
B-29 - hate to say it (poor kitten), but it'd be a helluva addition, perkable too.
P-51H- never saw combat-combat, but it wasn't for lack of tryin. This one was just outrageously fast.
P-63 - you could make an argument for this one. Bad bellybutton plane.
Those are really about your only options. P61 would be fun, but it was a night fighter. Very agile, and pretty quick, but nothing out of this world.
What I'd love to see is P47M, the 150 octane fuel for all USAAF birds (with perk price, of course), and the Mosquito updated and remodeled without those exhaust shrouds- should pick up a significant amount of speed. Maybe a revisit to the Mustang wing model and the clMax problem that it has (Widewing has had some spectacular information presented about it).
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Most sources use military power for the P-38L, and never give a spec for it at War Emergency Power. In fact, I'll let you drag out any chart that shows a P-38L having a top speed of 414MPH at WEP. Because I've never seen a chart that lists that. They all show the P-38L between 412MPH and 420MPH at military power, not WEP. Do you really think the P-38L is slower than the P-38J, despite having considerably more power and very little more weight?
I have no need to prove that statement, others have proven it several times over, here and elsewhere. And there likely is no more reputable source on the P-38 than Bodie, he had access to every piece of data, as well as working with, for decades, the engineers and staff who ran the P-38 project, including the man behind the plane, Clarence "Kelly" Johnson.
Can you be my rhetoric teacher? Pretty please? :P
IIRC, the P-38L was capable of 443MPH TAS at 28,000ft with WEP.
It would be great to see a source for this.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=18&p2=82&pw=1>ype=0)
Il-2 has two P-38Ls, one of which they call "P-38LLate." The normal P-38L is comparable to ours, and the late P-38L does about 430mph at 26,600ft. Did all P-38Ls receive the same engines?
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IL 2 is wrong. All P-38L models, beginning with the P-38L-1-Lo, were fitted with the Allison V-1710-F30. The preceding P-38J models, from the P-38J-1-Lo were equipped with the Allison V-1710-F17. The V-1710-F17 was rated at 1600HP at WEP, where as the V-1710-F30 was rated at 1725HP at WEP, for a difference of 125HP per engine, or 250HP per plane. The P-38J was rated at 421MPH at WEP, with 250HP less than the P-38L. It would be odd to say the least that a nearly identical plane with a very small increase in weight and a 250HP increase would be as slow or slower.
As a side note, in 1943, Allison developed the V-1710-G6 series engines. These engines were rated at 1725HP at military power with a two speed two stage supercharger and 2250HP at WEP with 100" of boost on water/methanol injection and 115/145 fuel. That was without the benefit of a turbocharger.
That AHII chart, by the way, is a chart for planes in a game, where as the discussion was about real aircraft.
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The source for the top speed of the P-38L would be "The Lockheed P-38 Lightning" by Warren Bodie, widely accepted as the bible of P-38 sources. On page 215 Bodie states that a P-38L-5-Lo was probably capable of 443MPH TAS at 20,000 to 23,000 feet. Further, on page 213, he states that a formal test report signed by General Franklin O. Carroll read:
Maximum HP at 60.8" MAP and 3,000 RPM was 1612HP at critical altitude.
Maximum sea level speed was 345MPH
Maximum critical alt. speed was 421.5 MPH (WEP) (25,800ft)
ROC at sea level was 4000fpm
ROC at critical altitude was 2900fpm (23,400ft)
Time to critical altitude was 6.19 minutes (23,400ft)
So odds are, a P-38L, with 250HP more at WEP than a P-38J, would not have the same top speed or slower top speed at WEP as that P-38J.
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That's good data, thank you. I'm curious to know why the P-38L isn't faster at altitude in game.
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Which once again never actually saw combat.
You're opening up a RIDICULOUS can of worms if you start to let stuff in like that.
I think HTC has the right approach, and that means just-a-bit-too-late birds like the P-51H, Meteor, F7F and F8F don't have a place in the game.
Shamrock,
WILL YOU STOP POSTING? The US Navy didn't even HAVE the F6F or TBM at Coral Sea. The TBM didn't see its first combat (only SIX of them at that) until Midway. The F6F didn't until September 1943.
the Meteor DID see combat over Holland in ground attack sorties; they even had to fight against P51's when mistaken for 262 buy USAAF crews. It just never took part in fighter sweeps and was never credited with AIR to AIR kills though they did have over 250 credits for A/C destroyed on the ground as well as V1 kills .
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That's good data, thank you. I'm curious to know why the P-38L isn't faster at altitude in game.
Because HTC made a conscious decision to follow the mainstream, where the P-38L is not rated as being faster than the P-38J. Again, the USAAF, at least in Europe, officially, did not use the higher RPM and higher boost settings that Lockheed and Allison provided. The V-1710 F-30 was a different engine than the V-1710 F-17, and capable of higher boost as well as higher RPM. The USAAF did not see it that way. Lockheed and Allison field representatives, sent to Europe to help USAAF personnel work with the P-38 showed the personnel at group and squadron level how to use the correct tune up on the F-30 engines. Lockheed and Allison field representatives went to Europe repeatedly between 1943 and 1945 both to offer technical support and also to inquire about needed improvements.
The V-1710G series engines were eventually installed in the F-82 "Twin Mustang". So those high power ratings were used in combat, those were combat rated and combat ready engines, and they were not substantially changed after 1943.
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Because HTC made a conscious decision to follow the mainstream, where the P-38L is not rated as being faster than the P-38J. Again, the USAAF, at least in Europe, officially, did not use the higher RPM and higher boost settings that Lockheed and Allison provided. The V-1710 F-30 was a different engine than the V-1710 F-17, and capable of higher boost as well as higher RPM. The USAAF did not see it that way. Lockheed and Allison field representatives, sent to Europe to help USAAF personnel work with the P-38 showed the personnel at group and squadron level how to use the correct tune up on the F-30 engines. Lockheed and Allison field representatives went to Europe repeatedly between 1943 and 1945 both to offer technical support and also to inquire about needed improvements.
The V-1710G series engines were eventually installed in the F-82 "Twin Mustang". So those high power ratings were used in combat, those were combat rated and combat ready engines, and they were not substantially changed after 1943.
Fascinating, yet you'd think that Lockheed (pbu Johnson) and Allison wouldn't have developed the V-30 and the L version to house same out of the goodness of their hearts. I.E., if the USAAF hadn't requested the update, or been sold on the update by Lockheed, then why did Lockheed develop it?
Further, if indeed the USAAF had requested those changes or ordered up those changes as proposed, why not then use the higher RPM and boost settings? And what does the latter entail? Is it a calibration to the pilot's controls that is required (much like we map and engine throttle to pedal deflection in today's cars)? What about the factory settings? Surely the L was delivered to design...
Please elaborate. You've picqued my curiosity on this one.
Incidentally, I'm guessing "the 1000 plane raid" or one of it's pseudonyms, as the Avatar...
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Fascinating, yet you'd think that Lockheed (pbu Johnson) and Allison wouldn't have developed the V-30 and the L version to house same out of the goodness of their hearts. I.E., if the USAAF hadn't requested the update, or been sold on the update by Lockheed, then why did Lockheed develop it?
Further, if indeed the USAAF had requested those changes or ordered up those changes as proposed, why not then use the higher RPM and boost settings? And what does the latter entail? Is it a calibration to the pilot's controls that is required (much like we map and engine throttle to pedal deflection in today's cars)? What about the factory settings? Surely the L was delivered to design...
Please elaborate. You've picqued my curiosity on this one.
Incidentally, I'm guessing "the 1000 plane raid" or one of it's pseudonyms, as the Avatar...
It was during war. Lockheed and Allison were always trying to improve their product, just as everyone else was. Both for profit and for the war effort.
The USAAF was I'm sure concerned with longevity and reliability. The harder you push your parts, the more often they require maintenance or replacement. However, it is much cheaper to replace engines or even planes that it is trained pilots. The P-38L was delivered according to USAAF specification, not necessarily Lockheed/Allison specification.
In order to increase MAP, you must increase throttle opening, or change the wastegate setting. In order to increase RPM, you must alter the pitch of the propeller. While wires were used to prevent the throttles from going past military power, and you had to break those wires to get to WEP, other adjustments prevented the throttle from going even further, either mechanical stops or cable length adjustments. So to get more MAP, you adjust either the cables or the stops, or both. In the case of the P-38, it was saddled with the Curtiss Electric propellers. These were electrically governed for speed. They were controlled by voltage or amperage, so you'd have to adjust the pitch control to provide the necessary RPM. Loss of electrical power would cause the propellers to "run away' meaning they'd exceed the correct RPM.
The avatar, like the signature, comes from "The Great Escape". It's Steve McQueen in the role of Captain Virgil Hilts, a "hot shot pilot" who was shot down and ended up a POW.
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It was during war. Lockheed and Allison were always trying to improve their product, just as everyone else was. Both for profit and for the war effort.
The USAAF was I'm sure concerned with longevity and reliability. The harder you push your parts, the more often they require maintenance or replacement. However, it is much cheaper to replace engines or even planes that it is trained pilots. The P-38L was delivered according to USAAF specification, not necessarily Lockheed/Allison specification.
In order to increase MAP, you must increase throttle opening, or change the wastegate setting. In order to increase RPM, you must alter the pitch of the propeller. While wires were used to prevent the throttles from going past military power, and you had to break those wires to get to WEP, other adjustments prevented the throttle from going even further, either mechanical stops or cable length adjustments. So to get more MAP, you adjust either the cables or the stops, or both. In the case of the P-38, it was saddled with the Curtiss Electric propellers. These were electrically governed for speed. They were controlled by voltage or amperage, so you'd have to adjust the pitch control to provide the necessary RPM. Loss of electrical power would cause the propellers to "run away' meaning they'd exceed the correct RPM.
The avatar, like the signature, comes from "The Great Escape". It's Steve McQueen in the role of Captain Virgil Hilts, a "hot shot pilot" who was shot down and ended up a POW.
I should've known. The 1000 plane raid was also McQueen, of course, but was not nearly as popular. I've seen 'em both.
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Bearcat or Tigercat would be interesting as exceptions....but they would do nothing for getting a perked USAAF airplane into the game as they were both Navy/Marine birds, and we already have a couple perked US Navy/Marine birds.
Good point. Didnt read close enough.
...can we have the Bearcat anyway?
(Great article in this month's Air & Space on Rare Bear. PW3350 @ 4,500HP. Set piston-driven speed record of like 538MPH or something) :confused: