Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JunkyII on October 19, 2009, 03:11:14 AM
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no it doesnt............
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I like this one better, "It only takes one to turn a merge into a HO".
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I like this one better, "It only takes one to turn a merge into a HO".
yaknow................... :aok
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Here we go...
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/waystin2/AnotherUglyHOthread.jpg)
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Here we go...
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/waystin2/AnotherUglyHOthread.jpg)
HEY!!
you used that pic before.
i feel jipped. :cry :bolt:
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HEY!!
you used that pic before.
i feel jipped. :cry :bolt:
Sorry I have not managed to find an uglier HO yet! LOL :rofl
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Sorry I have not managed to find an uglier HO yet! LOL :rofl
Got ya covered.
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/jko/lowres/jkon364l.jpg)
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Got ya covered.
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/jko/lowres/jkon364l.jpg)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :bolt: :bolt: :bolt:
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :bolt: :bolt: :bolt:
now you know why I offered USVI a job! :D
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After being HO'd in a 2v1 by a member of a well respected (by me, anyway) squad, who ran from a 1v1, dove to ack and then came back once I was committed to another playmate, I expressed my displeasure on 200.
The response: "i got the kill n thats all that matters"
Ok.
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After being HO'd in a 2v1 by a member of a well respected (by me, anyway) squad, who ran from a 1v1, dove to ack and then came back once I was committed to another playmate, I expressed my displeasure on 200.
The response: "i got the kill n thats all that matters"
Ok.
i see that a lot lately...........
on the other hand, i had a blast in the da during the 109 vs 38 challenge...and cannot waitr for the next one. :aok
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Another poor helpless HO victim thread :cry
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:bolt:
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Sorry I have not managed to find an uglier HO yet! LOL :rofl
(http://s2.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2009/6/24/23/profoundly-ugly-woman-5685-1245902160-41.jpg)
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(http://s2.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2009/6/24/23/profoundly-ugly-woman-5685-1245902160-41.jpg)
dam dude.......that's scarier than waystins!!!!!!!!!!!! :noid :bolt:
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(http://s2.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2009/6/24/23/profoundly-ugly-woman-5685-1245902160-41.jpg)
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/waystin2/puke.gif)
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(http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo280/Enker_photo/STOPTHAT.jpg)
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"It only takes one to turn a merge into a HO".
If I get a guns solution and an opportunity to exploit it Im going to take it. you want to play Mr Nice (lol) go for it. I expect the same in return.
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(http://www.lolhome.com/img_big/funny-picture-1402123973.jpg)
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(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/waystin2/makesureyouknowwhatyouarebuying.jpg)
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More of the "play fair" gang vs the "kill em all dead" gang.
I'm going with the "kill em" gang - Fair? you want Fair?? ......go to DisneylAnd!! :lol :lol :lol
.....cheers eh! :D
PS*** 5point OH - ya sure that's not Micheal J. back from the dead?? :aok
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More of the "play fair" gang vs the "kill em all dead" gang.
I'm going with the "kill em" gang - Fair? you want Fair?? ......go to DisneylAnd!! :lol :lol :lol
.....cheers eh! :D
PS*** 5point OH - ya sure that's not Micheal J. back from the dead?? :aok
No way, DisneyLand is the opposite of fair. I mean, $10 for a bottle of water?
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Truth is out, I am sick and twisted individual.
Enjoy
(http://mugshotdujour.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/amanda-bethel.jpg)
(http://www.mrdiggles.com/img/hot-chick.jpg)
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More of the "play fair" gang vs the "kill em all dead" gang.
I'm going with the "kill em" gang - Fair? you want Fair?? ......go to DisneylAnd!! :lol :lol :lol
.....cheers eh! :D
PS*** 5point OH - ya sure that's not Micheal J. back from the dead?? :aok
You want to learn to fight.... you have to fight. The fight is the game... win or lose. If you only want to HO you could have just stayed with the 80's type games where they come straight down your screen.
If you Ho you cheat yourself out of the fun of the game itself and the instrument you could have used to improve.
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I agree with that 100% Shuffler. When I started AH some 3 yrs ago it didnt matter how I got the kill. Now I think I've evolved to its "quality of the fight" type.
For me at least its the fun of pushing a Jug, Pony, or Lightning to the max to get the six shot. Thats my fuel for AH. Its rare but when I have one of those quality fights, it keeps me here longer and longer. Weather I win or lose the fight, its the fight that makes it worth something to me.
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The ho is a mindset. Get over it. there is no quarter. If you want technique, learn to play the piano.
Infidelz
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If I get a guns solution and an opportunity to exploit it Im going to take it. you want to play Mr Nice (lol) go for it. I expect the same in return.
Yawn. :rolleyes:
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The ho is a mindset. Get over it. there is no quarter. If you want technique, learn to play the piano.
Infidelz
:rofl
Tell you what..... Why don't you and me go to the DA and have a friendly duel. No chest thumping, we'll call it a test. You can fly any plane you want. I'll fly the 38. You can ho every pass and I wont ho. Just to see which is a better tactic.
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yaknow................... :aok
yak now? :D
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yak now? :D
DOH! :lol
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yak now? :D
eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww w
:bolt:
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Yawn. :rolleyes:
I figured I'd get a :rolleyes: out of the "Mr nice" comment lol
wtg larry :rolleyes:
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If you Ho you cheat yourself out of the fun of the game itself and the instrument you could have used to improve.
Disagree...nothing fun about getting chased down and outmaneuvered by a N1K while flying a 109-F4...take whatever chance you get, win or lose.
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eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
:bolt:
What. The yakT is great for Hos.
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I figured I'd get a :rolleyes: out of the "Mr nice" comment lol
wtg larry :rolleyes:
The troll is weak with this one. :rolleyes:
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You want to learn to fight.... you have to fight. The fight is the game... win or lose. If you only want to HO you could have just stayed with the 80's type games where they come straight down your screen.
If you Ho you cheat yourself out of the fun of the game itself and the instrument you could have used to improve.
Why not try the challenge in something besides a P38? You never know, you might learn something new :salute
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Why not try the challenge in something besides a P38? You never know, you might learn something new :salute
:rofl :D
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What. The yakT is great for Hos.
Yeah it is. Most recently I had a P51B approach my Yak9T from 11 o clock low moving under me to my 5 o clock high aft. Our atltitude was probably 11k and there were multiple red cons farther out ahead with better alt headed my way. I did NOT want this guy in my aft sphere and I knew he was going to present a fleeting head shot...a momentary opportunity so I preprared for it. The guy actually started to saddle up and point more in my direction but I could tell he was going to pass underneath me by about 200 yards. At the right instant I gave it a bit of pressure nose down on the stick and fired off maybe two bursts of 37mm. He exploded nicely. As he left the arena I recieved the obligitory "what a Hotard" on private.
I landed that as a four kill sortie there with 8 cannon rounds still in the mag. The other three kills were against cons saddled up on friendly bombers. Im sure there is a derogatory name for those shots as well........fixation picker? dead 6 tard?
Oh well...whatever, I enjoyed the sortie very very much. Its why I pay my money.
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Why not try the challenge in something besides a P38? You never know, you might learn something new :salute
TO ME, the p38 is still more of a challenge than most single engine aircraft.
i do admire the 109 drivers, as like i said in other threads, i can't see to shoot out of them.........
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Why not try the challenge in something besides a P38? You never know, you might learn something new :salute
Totally different argument. Shuff's point is simple. No one really dies, planes are free. Why not fight. You might get better at it. Taking the easy way out is pointless as you learn nothing, and challenge yourself not at all.
The second this game goes to one life and done, then I'll understand the HO shot, as there will be a risk then.
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Taking the easy way out is pointless as you learn nothing, and challenge yourself not at all.
There's some sig material right there, I didn't think you had it in ya Cork :D
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The Yak-9T turns better then a lot of people realize. If you get something like a P-51, a Typhie, a P-38...ect into a turn fight you'll probably win. Tho a good 38 stick will take you up and give you trouble that way. But I would say the 9T will out turn a majority of AH fighters.
And while not fast it is, let say, Niki-fast. Or Hellcat fast. So its not as slow as some would think either.
When in a fighter plane Im avoiding every HO I can now. I'd rather hone actual fight tactics then be one of these nit-wits who buzz in at 400 mph, take one typhie pass at the runway "or run-90", then HO everything they can before dieing. Then upp and do it again 40 times a day.
Getting a kill or two in a Yak and landing them means your doing something right.
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TO ME, the p38 is still more of a challenge than most single engine aircraft.
i do admire the 109 drivers, as like i said in other threads, i can't see to shoot out of them.........
The only reason Yeager is asking Shuff to try something other than a P-38 is that Yeager isn't very good against a P-38 and wants some sort of handicap placed on Shuff. Basically, it's the old "I can't beat your plane, so I won't fight against you" mentality and Yeager is also an extremely timid pilot on top of it all.
ack-ack
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no it doesnt............
+1
I know i know it was a WWII tactic, most of the ACES of WWII used it. And i even took the shot, while in a big furball, while protecting the goon from 1 upper or to save(break the cap) my(at) field. That said..... I HATE HO :)
I hate the person that time after time HO me. I hate them, when in a 4vs1, all they can do is HO, extend, reverse and HO.
I know, they have payed so they have all the rights to play has they want and the right to let me know that on 200/private. I have payed too, so i have all the rights to let them know what i think about their gameplay on 200. :)
Call it a whine if u wish, honestly i don't care :D
How do u close....oh yeah.....my 2 cents ( i think..)
IENA
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The only reason Yeager is asking Shuff to try something other than a P-38 is that Yeager isn't very good against a P-38 and wants some sort of handicap placed on Shuff. Basically, it's the old "I can't beat your plane, so I won't fight against you" mentality and Yeager is also an extremely timid pilot on top of it all.
ack-ack
well, i have no room to talk about timid. i was getting out of the timid habit, but feel i've been falling back into it again.........trying to force myself out of it again.
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The only reason Yeager is asking Shuff to try something other than a P-38 is that Yeager isn't very good against a P-38 and wants some sort of handicap placed on Shuff. Basically, it's the old "I can't beat your plane, so I won't fight against you" mentality and Yeager is also an extremely timid pilot on top of it all.
ack-ack
lol same goes for you akak as for shuffler. Stretch your wings man, and get some humility while your at it for Gods sake. I struggle in all sorts of planes. All the bombers, the 190s, 109s, Ki61s, Brewsters and P39s, C202s and 205s, P47s and P51s, All the cats, the Dauntless and Avenger too, Kates and Vals and yes even your vaunted ultimate trainer the P38.
Of course from my perspective doing the same three moves over and over and over again in the same plane over and over and over again (the sort of thing that has made you such a lethal lander of baby seal pelts in the MW arena) would quite literally bore me to death after ten years.
BTW, shuffler is challenging someone else to some non chest thumping "training", I was just making a suggestion that shuff (and you for that matter) might learn a thing or two by being slightly imaginative and stepping outside narrowly defined boxes for a brief time. Hell, he might even enjoy it. But in the end its a whatever floats yer boat type of deal.
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TO ME, the p38 is still more of a challenge than most single engine aircraft.
i do admire the 109 drivers, as like i said in other threads, i can't see to shoot out of them.........
Hmmm......maybe there is a mental block or something. It is one of the best handling planes in game. Very stable shooter at all speed with a great mix of cannon and MG pointed out the nose, Great flaps, great vertical game too, great speed and great acceleration. Whats not to love about it. Methinks your just not approaching it right. It is second only to the spit for ease of fighting in.
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Why not try the challenge in something besides a P38? You never know, you might learn something new :salute
lol sure..... not a problem. I can fly any aircraft in the set.
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lol sure..... not a problem. I can fly any aircraft in the set.
lol I know you can shuff, I just get a little irked by the one plane wonder boys that think the arenas revolve around them. Your a good guy, and fun to talk on range with :salute
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lol I know you can shuff, I just get a little irked by the one plane wonder boys that think the arenas revolve around them. Your a good guy, and fun to talk on range with :salute
Your a meany :neener:
:aok My one plane is based partially on being in the 80th (it's our historical bird along with the P-39) and just loving the 38. I get accused of hacking, the C word, pulling cords, dancing with other's wives, and you-name-it. It boils down to the fact I know my cartoon bird inside and out. You can fly the whole set all the time and be decent to pretty darn good. But to really sqeeze every last ounce of ability from a bird you have to know it inside and out. I don't have any problem with folks that fly all the birds at all. If that is what they like. I'll just try to stay lucky in my 38. :salute
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Hmmm......maybe there is a mental block or something. It is one of the best handling planes in game. Very stable shooter at all speed with a great mix of cannon and MG pointed out the nose, Great flaps, great vertical game too, great speed and great acceleration. Whats not to love about it. Methinks your just not approaching it right. It is second only to the spit for ease of fighting in.
i haqve to disagree with most of what you've said above.
in the spits, zeeks, hurris, etc, you can simply yank and bank. i don't believe a 38 will flat turn with any of them. you need to work things more. and you need to work them timed right.
and i do love it. i can kill all day longin spits. no fun. i can kill all day long in zeeks and hurris. no fun. the 38 on the other hand....challenge........fun. :aok
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No one really dies, planes are free. Why not fight. You might get better at it. Taking the easy way out is pointless as you learn nothing, and challenge yourself not at all.
Define fight. Yank and bank until you can get a shot from opponent's six? No frontal hemisphere shot allowed?
The second this game goes to one life and done, then I'll understand the HO shot, as there will be a risk then.
If it went that way, I would not understand deliberate HO's at all. Why risk the only life one has?
Now when there is no risk, HO is just a choice of risking one's points and virtual life. It is like "all in" in Texas hold'em ;)
Again, my simple point about any and all HOs is: HO's happen, live with it, avoid them or agree to join in them, but never whine. Take responsibility of your own actions and do not be a cry-baby victim.
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Hmmm......maybe there is a mental block or something. It is one of the best handling planes in game. Very stable shooter at all speed with a great mix of cannon and MG pointed out the nose, Great flaps, great vertical game too, great speed and great acceleration. Whats not to love about it. Methinks your just not approaching it right. It is second only to the spit for ease of fighting in.
Noting that you ignored my reply. This isn't about what you fly, it's about how you fly it.
But I am curious. What is your bird of choice?
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Define fight. Yank and bank until you can get a shot from opponent's six? No frontal hemisphere shot allowed?
If it went that way, I would not understand deliberate HO's at all. Why risk the only life one has?
Now when there is no risk, HO is just a choice of risking one's points and virtual life. It is like "all in" in Texas hold'em ;)
Again, my simple point about any and all HOs is: HO's happen, live with it, avoid them or agree to join in them, but never whine. Take responsibility of your own actions and do not be a cry-baby victim.
You make my point for me. If it were one life and done, there would be a risk to a HO shot. As is, there isn't and a lot more folks take them because there is no risk.
After this many years of playing AW and AH, I don't expect that HO's will ever go away. I figure Folks are always going to try. I don't care at this point. I get a new plane any time I get shot down, which is often.
Just don't try and justify a HO shot as something that takes a lot of cartoon skill.
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lol same goes for you akak as for shuffler. Stretch your wings man, and get some humility while your at it for Gods sake. I struggle in all sorts of planes. All the bombers, the 190s, 109s, Ki61s, Brewsters and P39s, C202s and 205s, P47s and P51s, All the cats, the Dauntless and Avenger too, Kates and Vals and yes even your vaunted ultimate trainer the P38.
I do quite well in other planes, pretty successful in a B-25H but as you're referring to fighters, I'm actually quite good in other ones as well. I just don't fly other planes in the main arenas, just in the dueling arena and when it was up, H2H. I can easily provide you with a 1v1 demonstration one day if you like, you can pick the plane.
Of course from my perspective doing the same three moves over and over and over again in the same plane over and over and over again (the sort of thing that has made you such a lethal lander of baby seal pelts in the MW arena) would quite literally bore me to death after ten years.
You can add your name to the list of 'baby seal pelts' as I've never seen anything beyond sub-average flying/fighting from you at any time. As for using the same moves, as I said in a previous thread, why get fancy when keeping it simple works just as well? Is it my fault that players like yourself take no more than a simple ACM maneuver to shoot down? Instead of crying about my 'moves', you should think about improving yours so you won't fall victim to the 'same three moves' time and time again.
ack-ack
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Of course from my perspective doing the same three moves over and over and over again in the same plane over and over and over again (the sort of thing that has made you such a lethal lander of baby seal pelts in the MW arena) would quite literally bore me to death after ten years.
As an ancillary comment to the discussion, here... if you get bored to death "doing the same three moves over and over and over again," how is doing a single "move" any more motivating? Beyond that, why not strive to be better at something? Whether its real life or Aces High, Im not sure how you can knock a guy for trying to be the best he can be, in this case, in any random airplane.
Whats the alternative? A celebration of mediocrity?
Why fly for five minutes, to get to a fight, only to rely on chance when you engage your first bad guy? Doesnt make any sense to me. Nine times out of ten, a maneuvering contest will result in a single winner and a single loser. Based upon my observation, nine times out of ten, any nose-on-nose joust with both aircraft firing their weapons results in damage to both; the "winner" being declared by the laws of physics; "He who hits the ground after the other guy wins." Unfortunately, at the end of the engagement, although he who floats softer gets a "kill," there is no real winner because he smacks the tarmac anyway.
One can spin it however he or she chooses, but at the end of the day, from my perspective, people who position their airplane nose-on-nose with every intention to fire have no confidence in their ability to do anything actually involving control surface inputs.
The great irony in all this is that by their very actions, they deprive themselves of the opportunity to remedy their deficiencies through practice and experience.
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Noting that you ignored my reply. This isn't about what you fly, it's about how you fly it.
But I am curious. What is your bird of choice?
Srry didnt meant to ignore. Just keep hammering away with it. Find some guys really good in it and fight with them. in MW biggamer can fly the thing like a zeke and shuffler is great in it to. Me not so much but my "timid" style means I wont fight with a disadvatage unless I get forced or fooled into it.
My favourite ride right now, or the one that intruiges me most is the 109F, G2and G6 but I have to admit its a love hate thing. Im not doing well in them. After that I love all the USAAF and NAVY/MARINE rides.
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As an ancillary comment to the discussion, here... if you get bored to death "doing the same three moves over and over and over again," how is doing a single "move" any more motivating? Beyond that, why not strive to be better at something? Whether its real life or Aces High, Im not sure how you can knock a guy for trying to be the best he can be, in this case, in any random airplane.
Whats the alternative? A celebration of mediocrity?
Why fly for five minutes, to get to a fight, only to rely on chance when you engage your first bad guy? Doesnt make any sense to me. Nine times out of ten, a maneuvering contest will result in a single winner and a single loser. Based upon my observation, nine times out of ten, any nose-on-nose joust with both aircraft firing their weapons results in damage to both; the "winner" being declared by the laws of physics; "He who hits the ground after the other guy wins." Unfortunately, at the end of the engagement, although he who floats softer gets a "kill," there is no real winner because he smacks the tarmac anyway.
One can spin it however he or she chooses, but at the end of the day, from my perspective, people who position their airplane nose-on-nose with every intention to fire have no confidence in their ability to do anything actually involving control surface inputs.
The great irony in all this is that by their very actions, they deprive themselves of the opportunity to remedy their deficiencies through practice and experience.
I HIGHLIGHTED one line.
that is kinda wrong. a good maneuvering contest will result in 2 winners, as both have just had fun.
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Just don't try and justify a HO shot as something that takes a lot of cartoon skill.
CC :aok
I completely agree. Not much skill is required, but some game related ability to take risk is required. Even risking just the points and virtual life. That is why I do not blame anyone going HO. Situations are quick and they vary. Things happen.
What is pointless, is the whining and trying to change how others play the game. Happiness and enjoyment is in everyone's own hands :)
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As an ancillary comment to the discussion, here... if you get bored to death "doing the same three moves over and over and over again," how is doing a single "move" any more motivating?
Nicely written :salute
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I HIGHLIGHTED one line.
that is kinda wrong. a good maneuvering contest will result in 2 winners, as both have just had fun.
Not always, not even close.
I never enjoy being shot down. If you do, so be it.
I much rather make a good move to disengage from an underdog position and rtb to land the kills than keep on making some more fancy maneuvers before curling down to such "fun" loss :p
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Srry didnt meant to ignore. Just keep hammering away with it. Find some guys really good in it and fight with them. in MW biggamer can fly the thing like a zeke and shuffler is great in it to. Me not so much but my "timid" style means I wont fight with a disadvatage unless I get forced or fooled into it.
My favourite ride right now, or the one that intruiges me most is the 109F, G2and G6 but I have to admit its a love hate thing. Im not doing well in them. After that I love all the USAAF and NAVY/MARINE rides.
More power to ya for trying to learn those birds. For me, and the 80th guys as well as many of the other 38 drivers, it's a passion for the history of that particular bird. I started the 80th as history has been a huge part of why I play. The 80th flew 38s and 39s. So I tend to fly 38s or 39s. My main ride is the 38G. To me the challenge is doing more with less and it gives me the best balance of being able to compete with the latewar birds, and making me work at it.
Taking on the birds that are better turners or have more speed keeps me coming back. Getting stuck in a turn fight with a 109F or G2 is always tough for me as they turn better then the 38G. I prefer fighting the later 109s as I can get inside them if they turn fight. If they play the vertical game then it becomes how do I stay 'alive' long enough to defeat that. More often then not, I don't, but because I have unlimited lives, I keep trying as that is the challenge of the game for me.
K/D, number of kills, etc doesn't matter. If it did, I'd fly differently and probably take a bird that would make getting better numbers easier.
To each his own.
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Not always, not even close.
I never enjoy being shot down. If you do, so be it.
I much rather make a good move to disengage from an underdog position and rtb to land the kills than keep on making some more fancy maneuvers before curling down to such "fun" loss :p
Nothing in the game compares to being the underdog with two or three cons on you in a turning fight and not giving up. If I go single engine I just keep fighting.. there is no getting out otherwise. Really makes the game for me if and when I win those and fly home. Even if I get shot down in those situations, I enjoy it if no one tried to ho.
I'd like to say that I came from H2H way before it was abandoned. I flew when there was only one main arena. When the split occured I flew in the LW arenas for awhile then found the fights in MW to be the most fun. I have since moved back to LW because of some issues in MW. I don't fly timid and am always in my 38 unless I up from a cv. Darn Navy folks wont let me have my 38 off the deck. I don't think I do too badly in LW. Anyone thinking just because someone flies in MW that they are not as adebt as someone in LW will find out differently if they ever come across one.
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it is easy to vilify the HO if you stick to the games better turn fighters.
it is also pretty easy to use a planes strengths when it displays few of its historic weaknesses.
so ...
if you are the better turn-fighter a ho complaint gets little sympathy from me,
you could have, and probably should have, turned off.
if you fly one of the planes with understated weaknesses than i am not so impressed with your ability to keep a fight in your envelope,
you have a pretty big envelope so not very difficult, and not very impressive.
it takes two to ho may not be exactly accurate, as one guy can create a head on merge.
however it only takes one guy to avoid a ho, so if you are still there well you want to be there,
you getting kilt and changing your mind does nothing to change the fact that you wanted to be there,
because if you didn't you would have broken off.
right?
right!
soooo enough already ...
right?
right !
+S+
t
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Not always, not even close.
I never enjoy being shot down. If you do, so be it.
I much rather make a good move to disengage from an underdog position and rtb to land the kills than keep on making some more fancy maneuvers before curling down to such "fun" loss :p
i don't enjoy being shot down at all........but if i had a good fun fight on the way to being shot down, then it's kinda worth it, knowing i made ya work for it.
on the same note, it makes it worth it when i have to work for the kills i get. :aok
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Taking on the birds that are better turners or have more speed keeps me coming back. Getting stuck in a turn fight with a 109F or G2 is always tough for me as they turn better then the 38G. I prefer fighting the later 109s as I can get inside them if they turn fight. If they play the vertical game then it becomes how do I stay 'alive' long enough to defeat that. More often then not, I don't, but because I have unlimited lives, I keep trying as that is the challenge of the game for me.
K/D, number of kills, etc doesn't matter. If it did, I'd fly differently and probably take a bird that would make getting better numbers easier.
To each his own.
Yes, if you are an 80th guy then your in about the best place you could be for 38s. Agree with you on all counts :salute
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it takes two to ho may not be exactly accurate, as one guy can create a head on merge.
however it only takes one guy to avoid a ho, so if you are still there well you want to be there,
you getting kilt and changing your mind does nothing to change the fact that you wanted to be there,
because if you didn't you would have broken off.
right?
Very much so and nicely written summary of the HO scenario :salute
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it takes two to ho may not be exactly accurate, as one guy can create a head on merge.
however it only takes one guy to avoid a ho, so if you are still there well you want to be there,
you getting kilt and changing your mind does nothing to change the fact that you wanted to be there,
because if you didn't you would have broken off.
right?
right!
soooo enough already ...
right?
right !
+S+
t
not exactly so.
there are those that are very very good at hitting you, no matter what you do to avoid.
i watched a run90 on saturday, try to set shuffler up for a ho. shuff dove under, and i think a little off ot the side. the 190, seemed to ram his stick forward, as i watched his nose pitch down, as if he was trying to make that shot, rather than fight it out. he had alt too.
i'll look and see if i have it on film, and post it if i do.
o yea.....they say it wasn't a ho, once the other guy tries to avoid.......
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Yeager never tells me "nicely written". (http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/anyonehome.gif)
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Me not so much but my "timid" style means I wont fight with a disadvatage unless I get forced or fooled into it.
Weak.
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Instead of crying about my 'moves', you should think about improving yours so you won't fall victim to the 'same three moves' time and time again.
ack-ack
I did see you in a B25H once. I was very very impressed btw. Is there any way to check player versus player stats?
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Weak.
fair enough. Just remember Im in the game for MY enjoyment, not yours :banana:
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a failed evasive is a failed evasive, whether from a 12 o'clock threat or a 6 o'clock threat.
if one guy has a shot and the other guy doesn't it is not a ho, how they get to that situation is irrelevant to what is happening within guns range. so if you gave up your solution, and tried to take the other guys solution away in the process but failed then it is still your failure.
what do you want to employ here a "if you see down the other guys barrel you must fly a sector away and then you can come back to re-engage" rule?
either ho or don't if you don't and the other guy tries then you should have the angle advantage when you passed each other, that does not matter if he still gets the shot off though does it?
sooo make a good evasive, but don't cry because the other guys shot was better than your evasive.
otherwise you could just make those complaints about any merge all day endlessly, and the rest of us would have to listen to that nonsense ...
just "shaddup" and die like a man, until you get better and die less.
+S+
t
not exactly so.
there are those that are very very good at hitting you, no matter what you do to avoid.
i watched a run90 on saturday, try to set shuffler up for a ho. shuff dove under, and i think a little off ot the side. the 190, seemed to ram his stick forward, as i watched his nose pitch down, as if he was trying to make that shot, rather than fight it out. he had alt too.
i'll look and see if i have it on film, and post it if i do.
o yea.....they say it wasn't a ho, once the other guy tries to avoid.......
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fair enough. Just remember Im in the game for MY enjoyment, not yours :banana:
fair enough. Just remember if everybody fought like that, you would not have any enjoyment as you would never find a fight with advantage. :banana:
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I did see you in a B25H once. I was very very impressed btw. Is there any way to check player versus player stats?
Yep, in the score pages click on the Player stats under Individual Statistics. It sorts the stats by kills in, kills of, killed by, and died in. Clicking on any of those columns will further break it down by showing what plane, what the other guy flew and the names of who you shot down and those that shot you down.
ack-ack
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fair enough. Just remember if everybody fought like that, you would not have any enjoyment as you would never find a fight with advantage. :banana:
just for the record......although you kicked my cartoon arse.....i enjoyed the hell out of our fights in the da last week dude. :aok
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a failed evasive is a failed evasive, whether from a 12 o'clock threat or a 6 o'clock threat.
if one guy has a shot and the other guy doesn't it is not a ho, how they get to that situation is irrelevant to what is happening within guns range. so if you gave up your solution, and tried to take the other guys solution away in the process but failed then it is still your failure.
what do you want to employ here a "if you see down the other guys barrel you must fly a sector away and then you can come back to re-engage" rule?
either ho or don't if you don't and the other guy tries then you should have the angle advantage when you passed each other, that does not matter if he still gets the shot off though does it?
sooo make a good evasive, but don't cry because the other guys shot was better than your evasive.
otherwise you could just make those complaints about any merge all day endlessly, and the rest of us would have to listen to that nonsense ...
just "shaddup" and die like a man, until you get better and die less.
+S+
t
you just made my point.
like guppy says.....the planes are free. when you face shoot, you're shooting a stationary target. not much of a challenge there.
when you "dance" you get your blood pumping.
in the da last week(see the 80th challenge thread), i had many fights.... against grizz, sonicblu, agent 360, krupinsky, billyd, and others.........especially krup, and sonic......i was literally sweating my bellybutton off when the fight were over.
i lost some, i won some. those 109 drivers kicked my cartoon arse. but i didn't much care, as i learned something, and had a BLAST fighting those guys.
in the main arenas, the only guy i've seen take a 109 that slow, was stang(he kicked my butt too). in the da, these guys had to have been riding the stall, as i was............the fight is the fun. everything else is just a bonus. :aok
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it is easy to vilify the HO if you stick to the games better turn fighters.
it is also pretty easy to use a planes strengths when it displays few of its historic weaknesses.
so ...
if you are the better turn-fighter a ho complaint gets little sympathy from me,
you could have, and probably should have, turned off.
if you fly one of the planes with understated weaknesses than i am not so impressed with your ability to keep a fight in your envelope,
you have a pretty big envelope so not very difficult, and not very impressive.
it takes two to ho may not be exactly accurate, as one guy can create a head on merge.
however it only takes one guy to avoid a ho, so if you are still there well you want to be there,
you getting kilt and changing your mind does nothing to change the fact that you wanted to be there,
because if you didn't you would have broken off.
right?
right!
soooo enough already ...
right?
right !
+S+
t
Nope your not right...think about 2 planes flying against each other, normally there is multiple merges especially in some of the most common merges like the immelman. You come back at pretty much head-on and with both planes having little if no E to really manuever all that well. So if some tard wants to take the easy way out he can just pop him there while the other plane actually practices ACM. I ALWAYS try to aviod the HO but sometimes the other guy just gets a lucky shot off.....it isnt even lucky its almost too simple to just go for HOs no challenge in it. Thats what I dont understand about the NOE hordes and the people who flatten bases instead of fighting them down to a vulch....there is no skill required in these things....
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Yep, in the score pages click on the Player stats under Individual Statistics. It sorts the stats by kills in, kills of, killed by, and died in. Clicking on any of those columns will further break it down by showing what plane, what the other guy flew and the names of who you shot down and those that shot you down.
ack-ack
Very nice akak 179 kills (none of me) in p38s MW with 20 deaths (none by me) this tour. Very nice. Always on top of the fight. Always retreat when approached by larger force of higher cons. usually you fight alone, sometimes not. Very good strategy. an akak kill is always a happy thing :)
Would be much preferred to see a direct player vs player compare feature rather than wading through all the different plane types to see who killed me. Or am I missing something still?
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fair enough. Just remember if everybody fought like that, you would not have any enjoyment as you would never find a fight with advantage. :banana:
its a complicated thing. Years of not caring about dying in game and constant mindless endless forever on and on furballing have given way to a more deliberate purpose in the game. Try not to get killed.
The happy news is there are alot of people who dont care about getting killed so its all good :)
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a failed evasive is a failed evasive, whether from a 12 o'clock threat or a 6 o'clock threat.
if one guy has a shot and the other guy doesn't it is not a ho, how they get to that situation is irrelevant to what is happening within guns range. so if you gave up your solution, and tried to take the other guys solution away in the process but failed then it is still your failure.
what do you want to employ here a "if you see down the other guys barrel you must fly a sector away and then you can come back to re-engage" rule?
either ho or don't if you don't and the other guy tries then you should have the angle advantage when you passed each other, that does not matter if he still gets the shot off though does it?
sooo make a good evasive, but don't cry because the other guys shot was better than your evasive.
otherwise you could just make those complaints about any merge all day endlessly, and the rest of us would have to listen to that nonsense ...
just "shaddup" and die like a man, until you get better and die less.
+S+
t
That's the logic of someone who thinks he's actually dying in a game. It's also the logic of someone who shoots folks in the face cause he thinks it means something to be a cartoon fighter pilot. "Until you get better and die less". Since when did 'dying' in this game mean you weren't any good at cartoon flying?
It's that old my K/D, score is better then yours, so I must be a good stick. You seem to be suffering from small joystick syndrome if you think any of that proves a thing.
Over the years playing this game and previous, the best sticks I've ever seen, were never on top of the scoreboard. Had they chosen to fly that way, they could have but they preferred to test their cartoon pilot skills.
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its a complicated thing. Years of not caring about dying in game and constant mindless endless forever on and on furballing have given way to a more deliberate purpose in the game. Try not to get killed.
The happy news is there are alot of people who dont care about getting killed so its all good :)
Some people dont mind if they get killed in a good fight, it means they might be getting better. If you dont want to die you wont take the chances with a HO since its 50/50 and you almost always come out of it with damage even if you win. What your saying doesnt make sense why offer your opponent a shot on you just to get a shot at the same time....how about work angles to get your opponents six or to set up a snapshot.
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Some people dont mind if they get killed in a good fight, it means they might be getting better. If you dont want to die you wont take the chances with a HO since its 50/50 and you almost always come out of it with damage even if you win. What your saying doesnt make sense why offer your opponent a shot on you just to get a shot at the same time....how about work angles to get your opponents six or to set up a snapshot.
There are so many factors that can come into play during an engagement. So many variables that require so many decisions. Your question is really too simplistic to just answer casually.
Summary: I typically try to make a genuine attempt at surviving the engagement FIRST, getting a kill SECOND, landing said Kill(s) last. It has simply evolved this way over many years of gaming at AH. Am I always successful? Heck no, not hardly. The most important question for me however is this: Am I enjoying my time spent online playing AH? By and large, yes.
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Very nice akak 179 kills (none of me) in p38s MW with 20 deaths (none by me) this tour.
Because by your own admission, you're too timid to fight. Usually an encounter with you goes like this...you dive down past the merge and then run. And you complain about how others fight when you don't fight at all unless you can pick the other guy as he's fighting someone else.
I never understood why timid people play a PvP centric game, maybe one day you'll take the time to explain it to me.
ack-ack
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Because by your own admission, you're too timid to fight. Usually an encounter with you goes like this...you dive down past the merge and then run. And you complain about how others fight when you don't fight at all unless you can pick the other guy as he's fighting someone else.
I never understood why timid people play a PvP centric game, maybe one day you'll take the time to explain it to me.
ack-ack
If it seems Im "complaining" then I apologize. It feels more like an astute "observation" to me. I do try VERY HARD never to complain in game.
The reason I enjoy playing the game is because I love the history of it, love the planes and tanks and ships, and I love the idea of virtually killing someone sitting in a computer chair somewhere else that is trying to virtually kill me, more or less.
As far as timid, well.......thats what some people describe it as, so there is that. Looking at the top stats I have not done well with my K/D this tour but I have sent 213 souls back to the tower, having suffered 73 trips there myself (last two days have not gone well). But I have to say I have really enjoyed the tour so far.
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I like this one better, "It only takes one to turn a merge into a HO".
+1
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i don't think i ever stated a preference for the head on, that doesn't mean i won't take it when i feel it is my best option.
my best option, and i will take any shot i think i can make. those are the two things you can count on from me.
as far as my skills go, i think this is my 3rd tour in this game and my k/d is top 80s and 5x better than the average of the plane i pretty much always fly. i am aggressive but not usually stupid, and i like to fight.
i almost always come out the looser in a ho, so i tend to avoid them.
even so, ho's happen, even if you don't try to have them, there is no code, so get over it.
if you really don't want to engage in a ho then don't, because if you really try not to engage front quarter to front quarter it really is not that difficult to avoid the ho's and they will then rarely happen to you.
+S+
t
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There are so many factors that can come into play during an engagement. So many variables that require so many decisions. Your question is really too simplistic to just answer casually.
Summary: I typically try to make a genuine attempt at surviving the engagement FIRST, getting a kill SECOND, landing said Kill(s) last. It has simply evolved this way over many years of gaming at AH. Am I always successful? Heck no, not hardly. The most important question for me however is this: Am I enjoying my time spent online playing AH? By and large, yes.
I try to survive every engagement too. But I've also taken the time to learn ACM and turn, fighting at a 'disadvantage', into an advantage. It's not very difficult to work a con with more E down and kill him. That's probably the most fun aspect of the game for me.
The only time I will ever run from a 1v1 is when I'm completely out of options in a Ta152 against a double-triple superior aircraft like a Spit9, Ki84, etc. Out of options= On deck, slow, 800-1200 separation, high boogies looming on the fringe, i.e. any maneuver attempted is 99% likely death.
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i.e. not stupid :salute
never could see the point of people having a problem with that ...
I try to survive every engagement too. But I've also taken the time to learn ACM and turn, fighting at a 'disadvantage', into an advantage. It's not very difficult to work a con with more E down and kill him. That's probably the most fun aspect of the game for me.
The only time I will ever run from a 1v1 is when I'm completely out of options in a Ta152 against a double-triple superior aircraft like a Spit9, Ki84, etc. Out of options= On deck, slow, 800-1200 separation, high boogies looming on the fringe, i.e. any maneuver attempted is 99% likely death.
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As far as timid, well.......thats what some people describe it as, so there is that. Looking at the top stats I have not done well with my K/D this tour but I have sent 213 souls back to the tower, having suffered 73 trips there myself (last two days have not gone well). But I have to say I have really enjoyed the tour so far.
You barely manage 4 kills per hour and all of those are usually the result of you picking someone as they fight someone else. You spend the majority of your flying time climbing to high altitudes or running. At least to me, it doesn't sound like a very fun way to play, in fact it sounds rather boring being so timid but it's your $15.
ack-ack
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If you guys cannot avoid the HO, then you will get shot down. It's a learning experience :)
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not exactly so.
there are those that are very very good at hitting you, no matter what you do to avoid.
i watched a run90 on saturday, try to set shuffler up for a ho. shuff dove under, and i think a little off ot the side. the 190, seemed to ram his stick forward, as i watched his nose pitch down, as if he was trying to make that shot, rather than fight it out. he had alt too.
i'll look and see if i have it on film, and post it if i do.
o yea.....they say it wasn't a ho, once the other guy tries to avoid.......
i found the film. i'm not going to post it, because before saturday night, i've never seen the dudes name....so i don't know if he's new or not.
talking to him on the "all" channel, he seemed to have a pretty good attitude, so i'm not gonna start a witch hunt.
what i saw though, was a 190A5, that had merged with me, from a slightly higher alt. he kept his speed, somewhat, and upon blowing the merge with me, flew on, took a pot-shot at shuffler, who was engaged with a spit...that coincindently, crossed my path.
the 190 took the fight downhill, and we ended up on the deck. it almost seemed as if he was trying to get an angle on shuffler, as he got a quickie just after shuff kilt the spit. that's when he did the "dip".
he was straight, at about 220 with me about 400 out. as he went over shuffs head, he dipped his nose, took a shot, and continued on, trying to get away from me.
it took me a bit(remember, my gunnery sucks), but i finally got him.
it amazes me though, that one will ignore a con on his six, and try to ho another......... :headscratch: :airplane:
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If you guys cannot avoid the HO, then you will get shot down. It's a learning experience :)
there's people that are very very good at hitting you, no matter how you avoid.
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but it's your $15.
ack-ack
we have made a breakthrough folks! I will take success in tiny increments akak, you have done well here today :salute
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I get in the fight... if I live and land.. fine, if i don't it's fine too as long as the fight was good. I do kill plenty more than I die both in MW (which I fly in some) and LW (which where I fly most). You can take my word on that. I fly the 38 almost always and I'm sure my stats will bear that out.
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I think it is Steve who has a good saying about this. something like, "It takes two to merge. It takes one to HO."
EDIT: It may have already been said, I have not read threw the previous 7 pages.
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I get in the fight... if I live and land.. fine, if i don't it's fine too as long as the fight was good. I do kill plenty more than I die both in MW (which I fly in some) and LW (which where I fly most). You can take my word on that. I fly the 38 almost always and I'm sure my stats will bear that out.
I love to fight in the La5 but haven't been in it exclusively for quite awhile now. Every time The fight is short and I die I wonder why I'm not in it. Then It dawns on me, I get bored killing yall when I'm in the best plane in the game. :D
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sounds like he wanted out of the box in, good thinking imo ...
he lost his friend and tried to egress sounds smart, what should bother you is being able to pass head on then turn 180 and catch him. that is what bothers me about the story, at least as you describe it.
+S+
t
i found the film. i'm not going to post it, because before saturday night, i've never seen the dudes name....so i don't know if he's new or not.
talking to him on the "all" channel, he seemed to have a pretty good attitude, so i'm not gonna start a witch hunt.
what i saw though, was a 190A5, that had merged with me, from a slightly higher alt. he kept his speed, somewhat, and upon blowing the merge with me, flew on, took a pot-shot at shuffler, who was engaged with a spit...that coincindently, crossed my path.
the 190 took the fight downhill, and we ended up on the deck. it almost seemed as if he was trying to get an angle on shuffler, as he got a quickie just after shuff kilt the spit. that's when he did the "dip".
he was straight, at about 220 with me about 400 out. as he went over shuffs head, he dipped his nose, took a shot, and continued on, trying to get away from me.
it took me a bit(remember, my gunnery sucks), but i finally got him.
it amazes me though, that one will ignore a con on his six, and try to ho another......... :headscratch: :airplane:
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I try to survive every engagement too. But I've also taken the time to learn ACM and turn, fighting at a 'disadvantage', into an advantage. It's not very difficult to work a con with more E down and kill him. That's probably the most fun aspect of the game for me.
The only time I will ever run from a 1v1 is when I'm completely out of options in a Ta152 against a double-triple superior aircraft like a Spit9, Ki84, etc. Out of options= On deck, slow, 800-1200 separation, high boogies looming on the fringe, i.e. any maneuver attempted is 99% likely death.
Thats what i like to call "owned"
Wait I thought you flew a 152 to handicap yourself, not to run :D
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I thought he flew 38's?
I remember those extremely fun 38v 109F fights we used to have Grizz, I learned a lot from those.
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I think it is Steve who has a good saying about this. something like, "It takes two to merge. It takes one to HO."
EDIT: It may have already been said, I have not read threw the previous 7 pages.
Steve is certainly entitled to his opinion but it MUST be understood that this is a guns game and sooner or later one is going to get shot. Be it from the front, the back...the side, while chasing some other con, while taking off, while outside having a smoke. Really, the HO whines are so much wasted time and energy.
:salute
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Steve is certainly entitled to his opinion but it MUST be understood that this is a guns game and sooner or later one is going to get shot. Be it from the front, the back...the side, while chasing some other con, while taking off, while outside having a smoke. Really, the HO whines are so much wasted time and energy.
:salute
Where in that statement did I make the claim that the "HO" was not a justified shot? I know what you mean, I do disagree with your view. But the statement I made earlier was more of a fact. I dont believe you can tell from that statement alone what the opinion is about it.
Statemet again- "It takes two to merge. It takes one to HO".
:salute
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Agreed.. You burn your hand on the stove, you learn not to touch it while its hot again.
-In a commercial guys voice-
I've learned how to avoid HOs and actually take advantage of them and for only $19.99 I will learn you the skill required to defeat these monsterous crimes against humanity and you too can become a suuuperhero of the skys! :rock
:banana: It's Peanut Butter Jelly Time!
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Where in that statement did I make the claim that the "HO" was not a justified shot? I know what you mean, I do disagree with it but the statement I made earlier was more of a fact. I dont believe you can tell from that statement alone what his opinion is about it.
Statemet again- "It takes two to merge. It takes one to HO".
:salute
Is it an excercise in rhetoric? Semantics? What then is to be inferred other than the one guy who fires on the "merge" at the other honerable non firing gentleman is in fact a dweeb?
:salute
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If you pull left out of a HO then you are pulling your nose out of the HO shot angle, thereby giving the opponent the opportunity not to HO you. Now how you do this successfully youll have to figure out, but I assure you it is a great way to avoid HOs.
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Merge off axis..... barrel roll in.... fall under is nose before you get within 1000 yards.
9 out of 10 they dont even land a shot....
usually no damage either....
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Merge off axis..... barrel roll in.... fall under is nose before you get within 1000 yards.
9 out of 10 they dont even land a shot....
usually no damage either....
that would be called maneuvering. If the enemy did something along the same lines it would also be called maneuvering, and a fight would commence. On the other hand if you do your "maneuvering" and all the other guy did was to just keep his nose on you then he is going for the HO and has no intentions of having a fight.
Thats the big difference, some people go for the fight, others just to grab as many kills as they can post on the board any way, any how.
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Keep your E up,maneuver gently, and win.
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If you pull left out of a HO then you are pulling your nose out of the HO shot angle, thereby giving the opponent the opportunity not to HO you. Now how you do this successfully youll have to figure out, but I assure you it is a great way to avoid HOs.
Best way to avoid a HO is not get yourself into a nose to nose merge but instead have seperation on the merge. This opens a door to a large amount of possibilities, one of then not being HO'd.
ack-ack
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Best way to avoid a HO is not get yourself into a nose to nose merge but instead have seperation on the merge. This opens a door to a large amount of possibilities, one of then not being HO'd.
ack-ack
Ill actually give someone my six just so the fight never comes to head on, its pretty easy to force rolling scissors doing this
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we have made a breakthrough folks! I will take success in tiny increments akak, you have done well here today :salute
enjoyed the fight with you tonight. that single fight made the night for me. :neener: oo..i meant to :banana: oo dam......eerrr........ :salute
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I think it is Steve who has a good saying about this. something like, "It takes two to merge. It takes one to HO."
EDIT: It may have already been said, I have not read threw the previous 7 pages.
where's you r sense of adventure man!!
right now!! go back, and read the previous 7 pages, of we shall unclog our noses in your general direction!!
:neener:
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sounds like he wanted out of the box in, good thinking imo ...
he lost his friend and tried to egress sounds smart, what should bother you is being able to pass head on then turn 180 and catch him. that is what bothers me about the story, at least as you describe it.
+S+
t
i fought yeager tonight. him c205, me 38j. i had several times i could've shot him......but they would've been ho's. not even a little off angle. i know i moved to avoid collision, and i think he did too. i don't understand why someone would take an easy shot, and avoid a challenging fight.
the ho attempt the 190 made on shuff, was a couple turns later. while the spit and 190 were both up, we stayed on our cons. the `190(in my opinion) wasn't trying to egress, otherwise, he'd have flown straight and level, and simply outrun me.
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Merge off axis..... barrel roll in.... fall under is nose before you get within 1000 yards.
9 out of 10 they dont even land a shot....
usually no damage either....
You tried this move on my Yak9T last night. How did that work out for you?
Remember your little parting shot on private before you absconded from the arena? Not real classy, but I am willing to let that go. Hell, what choice do I have, lol
Still, you seem like a good guy.
:salute strip
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enjoyed the fight with you tonight. that single fight made the night for me. :neener: oo..i meant to :banana: oo dam......eerrr........ :salute
Myself as well. Lets do it again soon!
<S> LTCAP
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i don't think i ever stated a preference for the head on, that doesn't mean i won't take it when i feel it is my best option.
my best option, and i will take any shot i think i can make. those are the two things you can count on from me.
as far as my skills go, i think this is my 3rd tour in this game and my k/d is top 80s and 5x better than the average of the plane i pretty much always fly. i am aggressive but not usually stupid, and i like to fight.
i almost always come out the looser in a ho, so i tend to avoid them.
even so, ho's happen, even if you don't try to have them, there is no code, so get over it.
if you really don't want to engage in a ho then don't, because if you really try not to engage front quarter to front quarter it really is not that difficult to avoid the ho's and they will then rarely happen to you.
+S+
t
Clearly our definition of liking to fight and mine are different. With kids, work etc I don't have the hours to spend climbing and looking for the advantage. I want to get in and mix it up as that's the fun.
Just for fun I checked. You have 139 kills in 43 + hours. I have 68 kills in 8+ hours. I've died 46 times and you've died 18. You have 3 + kills an hour. I have 8+.
Clearly you fly differently then I do and have the time to spend setting yourself up for your kills so that you have the advantage. More power to ya if that's how you want to spend your cartoon flying time. I don't mind fighting from a disadvantage, and in fact it's more of a challenge to me to try and make the other guy miss and then kill him.
You clearly have more time to burn in setting yourself up to not fly 'stupid'. I guess I must fly stupid then as I don't have the time to burn to make sure the fight is to my advantage.
But if you are having fun that way go for it. :aok
I'm too old to play it that way anymore :old:
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Clearly our definition of liking to fight and mine are different. With kids, work etc I don't have the hours to spend climbing and looking for the advantage. I want to get in and mix it up as that's the fun.
Just for fun I checked. You have 139 kills in 43 + hours. I have 68 kills in 8+ hours. I've died 46 times and you've died 18. You have 3 + kills an hour. I have 8+.
Clearly you fly differently then I do and have the time to spend setting yourself up for your kills so that you have the advantage. More power to ya if that's how you want to spend your cartoon flying time. I don't mind fighting from a disadvantage, and in fact it's more of a challenge to me to try and make the other guy miss and then kill him.
You clearly have more time to burn in setting yourself up to not fly 'stupid'. I guess I must fly stupid then as I don't have the time to burn to make sure the fight is to my advantage.
But if you are having fun that way go for it. :aok
I'm too old to play it that way anymore :old:
does stupid=fun? :neener:
for me it does....so i must be really really stupid. :devil :bolt: :airplane:
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Yup - I'm often to be found surrounded by Red - no way I'm going to survive, but ya know, its fun while it lasts.
Wurzel
Also, if anyone who hasn't killed me yet wants a go, I'll be online this week having finished working nights (will be resting this morning, and online available for death from around 5pm uk time.)
;)
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You tried this move on my Yak9T last night. How did that work out for you?
Remember your little parting shot on private before you absconded from the arena? Not real classy, but I am willing to let that go. Hell, what choice do I have, lol
Still, you seem like a good guy.
:salute strip
LMFAO a hotard talking about class. Now Ive seen everything.
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:rofl
Tell you what..... Why don't you and me go to the DA and have a friendly duel. No chest thumping, we'll call it a test. You can fly any plane you want. I'll fly the 38. You can ho every pass and I wont ho. Just to see which is a better tactic.
Why don't you just keep on tuning your piano? If I do see a P38 in the MA, I will immediately ho it with great gusto!!
infidelz
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LMFAO a hotard talking about class. Now Ive seen everything.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Why don't you just keep on tuning your piano? If I do see a P38 in the MA, I will immediately ho it with great gusto!!
infidelz
which would be taken as a compliment, seeing as you feel the need to face shoot a 38 for fear of losing the fight. :airplane: :aok :bolt:
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LMFAO a hotard talking about class. Now Ive seen everything.
we are all tards. once you figure that out you will be set free from the chains of your own ignorance.
:salute
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I tried to tell you this was going to be an ugly HO thread...
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Why don't you just keep on tuning your piano? If I do see a P38 in the MA, I will immediately ho it with great gusto!!
infidelz
It is your only chance and a very slim one at that. Flying like that just means you'll never have any confidence in any plane.
Upon further review....
Infidelz
MW 3 sorties 0 kills
LW 106 sorties 80 kills 2 kills per hour.
You might have more excitement in MSFS.
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alcon,
I enjoy the flight time in the arena and I will HO anyone coming at me, shoot from all quarters, and take any shot that avails itself. That is pretty straight forward NEH? I don't see the problem with it. Just part of the game.
So you pull those numbers out and talk about productivity? I have all the options, yours are limited. That doesn't seem smart to me (thats ok what I do isn't smart to you). I love the snap shot HOs were I trim the tail off the opposition as they avoid the HO, or destroy the 51 trying to dive under. Its great fun and the least wasteful of energy. If conditions are right, a turn fight follows. So your a better cartoon pilot than me? OK fine so what? I have fun my way, you have fun your way.
I just can't believe someone would talk about productivity in the cartoon world. Your kidding right? Cause if your constantly measuring that stuff, you really ought to get paid for it.
Infidelz.
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alcon,
I enjoy the flight time in the arena and I will HO anyone coming at me, shoot from all quarters, and take any shot that avails itself. That is pretty straight forward NEH? I don't see the problem with it. Just part of the game.
So you pull those numbers out and talk about productivity? I have all the options, yours are limited. That doesn't seem smart to me (thats ok what I do isn't smart to you). I love the snap shot HOs were I trim the tail off the opposition as they avoid the HO, or destroy the 51 trying to dive under. Its great fun and the least wasteful of energy. If conditions are right, a turn fight follows. So your a better cartoon pilot than me? OK fine so what? I have fun my way, you have fun your way.
I just can't believe someone would talk about productivity in the cartoon world. Your kidding right? Cause if your constantly measuring that stuff, you really ought to get paid for it.
Infidelz.
Your destined for mediocrity. Must be terribly boring.
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Your destined for mediocrity.
He actually has a pretty good grasp of things, at least from my way of looking at things. Remember, what the game means to you is not necessarily what the game means to the next guy, and on down the line. Here is something I have noticed lately about myself: If I know the guy I am fighting and I dislike that cartoon persona I will take any shot I can to kill the SOB. But if I like the guy and know that he likes to dogfight for fun I will play it conservative and go for the long fight. It all depends.
Maybe thats messed up...I dont know.
:salute
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He actually has a pretty good grasp of things, at least from my way of looking at things. Remember, what the game means to you is not necessarily what the game means to the next guy, and on down the line. Here is something I have noticed lately about myself: If I know the guy I am fighting and I dislike that cartoon persona I will run. But if I like the guy and know that he likes to dogfight for fun I will run. It all depends.
Maybe thats messed up...I dont know.
:salute
Fixed.
ack-ack
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Thanks Shuffler for the great fights in the DA last night. Your a great cartoon P38 pilot and an even better guy to talk too.
Thanks again! :salute
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He actually has a pretty good grasp of things, at least from my way of looking at things. Remember, what the game means to you is not necessarily what the game means to the next guy, and on down the line. Here is something I have noticed lately about myself: If I know the guy I am fighting and I dislike that cartoon persona I will take any shot I can to kill the SOB. But if I like the guy and know that he likes to dogfight for fun I will play it conservative and go for the long fight. It all depends.
Maybe thats messed up...I dont know.
:salute
i actually avoid cheap shots on guys i don't like, just as much as guys i like. first, because it stretches the fight...and my replacement 38's are covered.
second, i don't really want to listen to him clogging up 200 when i do.
when we went into that fight last night, i didn't know that it was you. i only knew that from how quickly you capatlized on my mistake the first time, that you were somoene that knew what he was doing in that c205.....so when we merged, i was determined to keep enough energy to be able to stay above you, giving myself more options.
i think there were no less than 4 passes that we could've ho'd each other.......and we both chose not to. i haven't watched the film yet, but the pass that you pw'd me on i'm pretty sure wasn't either. it was a very nice angle shot from below my nose i think.
i messed up though....was having trouble telling what you were doing, and having even more troubel predicting what you were about to do. that's part of what made it more fun.
BTW.....i called out the pw......but wouldn't have blamed ya for finishing me off.......you had more than earned it at that point. :aok :bolt:
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He actually has a pretty good grasp of things, at least from my way of looking at things. Remember, what the game means to you is not necessarily what the game means to the next guy, and on down the line. Here is something I have noticed lately about myself: If I know the guy I am fighting and I dislike that cartoon persona I will take any shot I can to kill the SOB. But if I like the guy and know that he likes to dogfight for fun I will play it conservative and go for the long fight. It all depends.
Maybe thats messed up...I dont know.
:salute
Your right some folks just like to sit in the tower... never fly.... never drive... never float. What a waste of bandwidth.
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Thanks Shuffler for the great fights in the DA last night. Your a great cartoon P38 pilot and an even better guy to talk too.
Thanks again! :salute
Great fun Twizzty...... thanks for the invite and fun fights. Enjoyed the talk and flying.
<S> Take care of those kids :aok
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Your right some folks just like to sit in the tower... never fly.... never drive... never float. What a waste of bandwidth.
I can't even imagine. :huh :D
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Fixed.
ack-ack
I had somone named Sharps ram my p-40 the other night! :D
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I had somone named Sharps ram my p-40 the other night! :D
well!!
that's whatcha git fer flyin that heap!!
:noid :bolt:
seriously....are you one of those guys that can take a p40, and embarrass most uber planes? ;) :D
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I dont understand how you try to reason this at all. Yeager says he flys to survive.... but he says he will take a HO(which is a 50/50 of coming out on top). Alot of these other guys say its "part of the game" yet you look at the better sticks in the game going at it in a tournamnet where HO arent allowed, and in KOTH where its allowed you dont normally see a person who HOs come out on top. I just cant figure out why these would be your arguements unless your just ignorant to the finer points of ACM
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well!!
that's whatcha git fer flyin that heap!!
:noid :bolt:
seriously....are you one of those guys that can take a p40, and embarrass most uber planes? ;) :D
No I just take it into harms way after afew beers. :cheers: :bolt:
Yeah, Sometimes avoiding thr HO shots is a game in itself! Have to say some of the best fights I've had were against 109s. Working for the 6. :airplane:
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We are missing the bigger argument here; everyone who kills me cheats. Now that extends to a great range of players and HT needs to investigate this. Or is it just me? :joystick:
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We are missing the bigger argument here; everyone who kills me cheats. Now that extends to a great range of players and HT needs to investigate this. Or is it just me? :joystick:
You fly a spixteen... you don't count. :neener:
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HO is great if you have the losing cards in your hand and you can "double or nothing" with your HO. If you can beat the opponent without risking a HO, then agreeing to HO is simply stupid. It still takes 2 to HO and either one can decide to break it. Usually the one with more to lose (energy, angles, position, altitude, virtual prestige, whatever) avoids the HO or then both just decide to gun it out.
What is so complicated about the whole HO issue? Forget it already :furious
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well!!
that's whatcha git fer flyin that heap!!
:noid :bolt:
seriously....are you one of those guys that can take a p40, and embarrass most uber planes? ;) :D
P40 is uber
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P40 is uber
So is the C47! :neener:
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No I just take it into harms way after afew beers. :cheers: :bolt:
Yeah, Sometimes avoiding thr HO shots is a game in itself! Have to say some of the best fights I've had were against 109s. Working for the 6. :airplane:
the funny thing with me......i can't hit poop from dead 6. sometimes i can barley see the dam thing. then top it off with me having time to aim.....i do much better when i have those fleeting shots with the con crossing my nose, i fire off a burst, i may hit him.
that's why when the 190 drivers start their rolling thing, i wait.,....when they look like they're about to get big, i fire a burst.....when they're runnin straight n level....i spray n pray. :joystick: :airplane:
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the funny thing with me......i can't hit poop from dead 6. sometimes i can barley see the dam thing. then top it off with me having time to aim.....i do much better when i have those fleeting shots with the con crossing my nose, i fire off a burst, i may hit him.
that's why when the 190 drivers start their rolling thing, i wait.,....when they look like they're about to get big, i fire a burst.....when they're runnin straight n level....i spray n pray. :joystick: :airplane:
Don't feel bad. I scream like a teenage girl at a haunted house. When a p38 dives on me and doesnt go screaming by! :x :uhoh
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HO is great if you have the losing cards in your hand and you can "double or nothing" with your HO. If you can beat the opponent without risking a HO, then agreeing to HO is simply stupid. It still takes 2 to HO and either one can decide to break it. Usually the one with more to lose (energy, angles, position, altitude, virtual prestige, whatever) avoids the HO or then both just decide to gun it out.
What is so complicated about the whole HO issue? Forget it already :furious
First of all dont say forget it when your still posting threads....Its a known fact that you can get killed avioding a HO...most of the stuff Ive read and learned is you want to turn towards HO to make E states the same, also when you have the same E as someone its all about who can get inside the other person the best which almost means get passed HO which is sometimes hard to do at low speed. If you want me to show you in DA that it doesnt take both to HO I will...
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I had somone named Sharps ram my p-40 the other night! :D
lol, last time I saw a P40 it was because I was in it. There is a guy in LW named Sharp, might have been him :salute
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I dont understand how you try to reason this at all. Yeager says he flys to survive.... but he says he will take a HO(which is a 50/50 of coming out on top).
For me I would guess its more like 70% survive to 30% die on the Head on shot for me. Probably less than 10% of the shots I take are front quarter and of all those I might pass for a better shot 50% of the time. You NEED TO UNDERSTAND, the HO shot is NOT A PROBLEM for me. Then again I fly mainly MW so the crowding that forces so many head ons in the LW is not something I typically deal with.
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Fixed.
ack-ack
lol akak, you are quite the imaginative writer, sort of like all that imagination you use to club baby seals in the MW with the uber hot P38J and the three vertical moves (being generous with that) you have mastered over the past ten years, rope a dope over and over and over again.
Have fun with that!
Take care bro :salute
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Only thing that bothers me of what Yeager has said is that he will never fight at a disadvantage. That's extremely weak. Especially in the MW.
Yeager if you ever want to go to the DA and work on some moves with less E, I'll be down. I'll teach you a few things. :salute
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Only thing that bothers me of what Yeager has said is that he will never fight at a disadvantage. That's extremely weak. Especially in the MW.
Yeager if you ever want to go to the DA and work on some moves with less E, I'll be down. I'll teach you a few things. :salute
actually, he fought me last night. co alt, co e merge......i managed to get above him, and for the most part stayed there. i think that should've had him at a disadvantage........although i still couldn't kill that stupid little 205. :rofl
it was a pretty enjoyable fight. i;ve been pretty lucky these last few nights on, finding good fights. :aok
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actually, he fought me last night. co alt, co e merge......i managed to get above him, and for the most part stayed there. i think that should've had him at a disadvantage........although i still couldn't kill that stupid little 205. :rofl
it was a pretty enjoyable fight. i;ve been pretty lucky these last few nights on, finding good fights. :aok
The way i fly is either just jump in and get ganged(especially in a KI84) or I stay on the edge of a fight looking for one or two to come out and fight them alone, I kept fighting this noob like this but the funny thing was he was giving me a better and better fight each time almost getting shots on me
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Only thing that bothers me of what Yeager has said is that he will never fight at a disadvantage. That's extremely weak. Especially in the MW.
Yeager if you ever want to go to the DA and work on some moves with less E, I'll be down. I'll teach you a few things. :salute
lol grizz did I say "never" hehe.....you know what they say "never say never". Anyway with an attitude like yours' I would love to DA you sometime. Next time we are in MW together lets go, but it has to be for fun....last thing I want to do is contribute to some mosterous ego (hint akak) :)
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The way i fly is either just jump in and get ganged(especially in a KI84) or I stay on the edge of a fight looking for one or two to come out and fight them alone, I kept fighting this noob like this but the funny thing was he was giving me a better and better fight each time almost getting shots on me
Thanks for not mentioning my name. :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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The way i fly is either just jump in and get ganged(especially in a KI84) or I stay on the edge of a fight looking for one or two to come out and fight them alone, I kept fighting this noob like this but the funny thing was he was giving me a better and better fight each time almost getting shots on me
that's a good thing. means he was learning. i'd have gone on 200, and given him some tips.
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lol grizz did I say "never" hehe.....you know what they say "never say never". Anyway with an attitude like yours' I would love to DA you sometime. Next time we are in MW together lets go, but it has to be for fun....last thing I want to do is contribute to some mosterous ego (hint akak) :)
Lol, I'm not trying to prove anything so yeah, it would be for fun. But if you have been flying since 2001 and still don't feel comfortable fighting and killing from a disadvantage, imo that is a virtual AH crime. And when I say disadvantage, I'm talking a 1v1 when the other guy has >>E, not a situation where 4 guys jump you from above. That's not really a fight anyone should look for.
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that's a good thing. means he was learning. i'd have gone on 200, and given him some tips.
I was pming him, 200 would have made it spam :)
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I was pming him, 200 would have made it spam :)
true....excellent point. :aok
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Its a known fact that you can get killed avioding a HO.
Yes, and it is also a known fact that you can get killed in any maneuver while hostiles are around. I bet ones dies more seldom avoiding HO's that taking them.
..most of the stuff Ive read and learned is you want to turn towards HO to make E states the same, also when you have the same E as someone its all about who can get inside the other person the best which almost means get passed HO which is sometimes hard to do at low speed. If you want me to show you in DA that it doesnt take both to HO I will...
I don't see how you could show me anything like that when for the past 10 years I've flown AH, I have never "been HOed". In every HO situation I have been in, I have either initiated it or chosen to participate in it after the opponent has turned towards me.
Obviously our concept of HO still differs a lot. Maybe you are calling any planes flying to each others' general direction an HO? To me it is an HO only when both have a gun solution. Also turning into the enemy (initiating an HO) does not equalize E states. E is speed and altitude. Pilots are encouraged to turn into the enemy as a defense, but that does not mean HO.
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Obviously our concept of HO still differs a lot. Maybe you are calling any planes flying to each others' general direction an HO? To me it is an HO only when both have a gun solution. Also turning into the enemy (initiating an HO) does not equalize E states. E is speed and altitude. Pilots are encouraged to turn into the enemy as a defense, but that does not mean HO.
There's a moment in a merge where one pilot decides "I'm firing here". There is another moment where the other pilot either decides "I'm firing here", which will result in a textbook HO and 2 deaths, or "I'm dodging the HO", which may or may not result in his death. The outcome of the "Head On" is entirely dependent on the 2nd pilot's decision of whether or not to take the joust. If the first pilot decides he's firing regardless of the second pilot's actions, how can you only say he HO'd if the second pilot reciprocates? You can't. It's a HO whether the second pilot dodges the shot or HO's also.
HOing is a decision, not an angles technicality.
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There's a moment in a merge where one pilot decides "I'm firing here". There is another moment where the other pilot either decides "I'm firing here", which will result in a textbook HO and 2 deaths, or "I'm dodging the HO", which may or may not result in his death. The outcome of the "Head On" is entirely dependent on the 2nd pilot's decision of whether or not to take the joust. If the first pilot decides he's firing regardless of the second pilot's actions, how can you only say he HO'd if the second pilot reciprocates? You can't. It's a HO whether the second pilot dodges the shot or HO's also.
HOing is a decision, not an angles technicality.
I agree with this observation. I would also add that a game of chicken is afoot. If you're in an A8 and you're heading straight at a Spit you have the advantage. The Spit is out gunned and should break. The Spits early break is an advantage for the A8. If the A8 choses not to shoot, and because of some ettiquet rule the Spit knows he isn't going to shoot, then the Spit gains the advantage because his plane is more manueverable and they are starting from the same point as they pass through each other.
I went a long time not HO-ing in my P-39 because of the 'ettiquet'. 70% of the time, the guy hoed me, and I wondered why I didn't shoot first when I saw him lining me up. The other 30% of the guys that don't shoot are probably veterans enough to know the ettiquet which means they are veterans enough to kill me. :salute. In which case I need the advantage of making them break early. So I made the decision about 1 month ago that if someone flies staight at my P-39 he's going to get a face full of 37mm. :O
...better break early. ;)
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I went a long time not HO-ing in my P-39 because of the 'ettiquet'. 70% of the time, the guy hoed me, and I wondered why I didn't shoot first when I saw him lining me up. The other 30% of the guys that don't shoot are probably veterans enough to know the ettiquet which means they are veterans enough to kill me. :salute. In which case I need the advantage of making them break early. So I made the decision about 1 month ago that if someone flies staight at my P-39 he's going to get a face full of 37mm. :O
...better break early. ;)
+1 :aok
I've never come across this "HO etiquette" rule in any of the 4-5 Combat Air Sims I've played over the years. Strange. Almost a left over of medieval jousting - certainly not based on any sort of 20 Century combat concepts. <shrug> maybe many of the people complaining should really just limit themselves to the DA - it seems they would certainly be a lot happier and not feel so put upon. Just MHO.
I fly a 190A8 exclusively as a Boom & Zoom fighter - as IMO it was intended to be fought. In a large majority of my attacks I would estimate that close to 60% of my cons turn into me and go Head On. It is human nature to want to face your enemy and get a few licks in as soon as you can. Maybe they intend to fire or break off - I have NO way of knowing and if I wait till D5 or less it is too late. As far as I'm concerned if a con is still HO at D12 he's committed to a gun run on me. I'm either going to "refuse" the HO or give him a face full of 20 mike mikes. MY choice and I'm certainly NOT going to whine and cry on 200 or PM as I see so many doing. Grow up and accept it.
What really irks me are the "You're playing the game wrong" "You'll never learn anything" "You're ruining it for others" Fightards whinning that goes on. It IS a part of the game and if YOU are so good at the game then what do YOU care if others do it.
Seems that it's usually the losers who whine - if you avoided the HO then what's the problem? According to Fightards the HO'ers are now in an inferior situation....go figure
...BUT these guys are so easy to wind up - it's almost criminal to do it .....um........naw...... :devil
I think they actually enjoy the whinning about HO's - otherwise they'd have to find something else. Xrist on a crutch - it's just a game!! <shrug>
...can't you fightards just learn to get along with everyone eh?? :D
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+1 :aok
It IS a part of the game and if YOU are so good at the game then what do YOU care if others do it.
Because competition against skilled sticks is more fun than clubbing the baby seals who largely populate the MA.
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i think "turntards" is more appropriate :D
as we are all fighting ...
:aok
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turning into an attacking con...especially one that you know is carrying a LOT of speed, is generally done to spoil his shot.
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Because competition against skilled sticks is more fun than clubbing the baby seals who largely populate the MA.
LOL - was waiting for you to make an appearance Steve - and you know what - I actually agree with your premiss - just not the way many here go about beating people over the head about it - better if confronted with the situation to quietly offer to show the other some alternatives in some one on one coaching.
I'm without a doubt a lousy shot and my plane repeatedly falls "outa da sky" - often LOL
Still not above learning a thing or three.
...cheers eh! :D
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yea but to turn into a con in a manner that results in a gun solution can not honestly be described as evasive can it?
turning into an attacking con...especially one that you know is carrying a LOT of speed, is generally done to spoil his shot.
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yea but to turn into a con in a manner that results in a gun solution can not honestly be described as evasive can it?
if you do it right, it doesn't. often, though, it will look like the lower con is going for a ho, simply because he's heading at ya now.
i always try to take away the hi guys guns solution...i suck at it, but i try. i also try to gain alt in my evasives.
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LOL - was waiting for you to make an appearance Steve - and you know what - I actually agree with your premiss - just not the way many here go about beating people over the head about it - better if confronted with the situation to quietly offer to show the other some alternatives in some one on one coaching.
I'm without a doubt a lousy shot and my plane repeatedly falls "outa da sky" - often LOL
Still not above learning a thing or three.
...cheers eh! :D
well you are in a bit of a different situation, IMHO.
(the following is merely my opinion and nothing more)
Look, you're in an A8... You should not be expected to shirk the HO
1) Because you are in one of the worst maneuvering planes in the game, it is a sturdy plane, and you have 4 cannon.
2) Anyone merging with an A8 should expect to get HO'd, because of #1
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+1 :aok
I've never come across this "HO etiquette" rule in any of the 4-5 Combat Air Sims I've played over the years. Strange. Almost a left over of medieval jousting - certainly not based on any sort of 20 Century combat concepts. <shrug> maybe many of the people complaining should really just limit themselves to the DA - it seems they would certainly be a lot happier and not feel so put upon. Just MHO.
I fly a 190A8 exclusively as a Boom & Zoom fighter - as IMO it was intended to be fought. In a large majority of my attacks I would estimate that close to 60% of my cons turn into me and go Head On. It is human nature to want to face your enemy and get a few licks in as soon as you can. Maybe they intend to fire or break off - I have NO way of knowing and if I wait till D5 or less it is too late. As far as I'm concerned if a con is still HO at D12 he's committed to a gun run on me. I'm either going to "refuse" the HO or give him a face full of 20 mike mikes. MY choice and I'm certainly NOT going to whine and cry on 200 or PM as I see so many doing. Grow up and accept it.
What really irks me are the "You're playing the game wrong" "You'll never learn anything" "You're ruining it for others" Fightards whinning that goes on. It IS a part of the game and if YOU are so good at the game then what do YOU care if others do it.
Seems that it's usually the losers who whine - if you avoided the HO then what's the problem? According to Fightards the HO'ers are now in an inferior situation....go figure
...BUT these guys are so easy to wind up - it's almost criminal to do it .....um........naw...... :devil
I think they actually enjoy the whinning about HO's - otherwise they'd have to find something else. Xrist on a crutch - it's just a game!! <shrug>
...can't you fightards just learn to get along with everyone eh?? :D
You must be wound up... with name calling and all. That really takes away from any point your trying to make.
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Had a spit1 HO me in a jug today. Not too smart. :neener: :D
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You must be wound up... with name calling and all. That really takes away from any point your trying to make.
LOL nope not a bit - I just enjoy a little "wind em up" when necessary - reading the past 12+ pages seemed to qualify!! :rofl
....cheers eh! :D
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Had a spit1 HO me in a jug today. Not too smart. :neener: :D
i won a ho awhile back...me zeek........him spit9
won one a couple months ago.....me 38j him 190a5
i do it when i feel forced to do it. :devil :O :neener:
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e- nose down, e+ nose up ...
that is how you even out an energy disadvantage, or preserve an energy advantage respectively ...
as a rule you should always try to make your opponent bleed more energy than you do yourself.
back to the last point, pulling for a shot and pulling to evade a shot are never the same thing, 1v1 anyway.
+S+
t
if you do it right, it doesn't. often, though, it will look like the lower con is going for a ho, simply because he's heading at ya now.
i always try to take away the hi guys guns solution...i suck at it, but i try. i also try to gain alt in my evasives.
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e- nose down, e+ nose up ...
that is how you even out an energy disadvantage, or preserve an energy advantage respectively ...
as a rule you should always try to make your opponent bleed more energy than you do yourself.
back to the last point, pulling for a shot and pulling to evade a shot are never the same thing, 1v1 anyway.
+S+
t
i know how to to it. i'm just not good at it yet.
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i know how to "do" it. i'm just not good at it yet.
Truer words dude!!
cheers eh! :D
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Truer words dude!!
cheers eh! :D
:rofl
thanx for fixin that. guess my fingers got stuck in stutter mode. :rofl :bolt:
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It's a HO whether the second pilot dodges the shot or HO's also. HOing is a decision, not an angles technicality.
So, according to you one could "HO his opponent" from behind? .... if the opponent evades by turning around before the shots are fired.
I do not agree with that.
I believe an HO is THE explicit situation where both planes could fire at the opponent's face at the same time, regardless of whether they actually fire or not. If one of them decides to evade, the HO ceases to exist. If an HO course continues till the end, the planes collide Head On (HO). Even the HO pass is not a complete HO, since the planes are passing each other in the end ;)
It is all about the angles! Some people and the general whining attitude have just distorted it into this false concept of mind set, personality or even a person.... a "HOer". Thus anyone who is engaged with a "HOer" gets "HOed" :rolleyes:
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So, according to you one could "HO his opponent" from behind? .... if the opponent evades by turning around before the shots are fired.
I do not agree with that.
I believe an HO is THE explicit situation where both planes could fire at the opponent's face at the same time, regardless of whether they actually fire or not. If one of them decides to evade, the HO ceases to exist. If an HO course continues till the end, the planes collide Head On (HO). Even the HO pass is not a complete HO, since the planes are passing each other in the end ;)
It is all about the angles! Some people and the general whining attitude have just distorted it into this false concept of mind set, personality or even a person.... a "HOer". Thus anyone who is engaged with a "HOer" gets "HOed" :rolleyes:
PATHETIC AND WRONG
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Had a spit1 HO me in a jug today. Not too smart. :neener: :D
I'll HO you while in a Spit 1. As for me being smart, when you're in the tower, you can ask yourself that question. Just because you have 8 50cals, cannon, etc, DOES NOT mean you have good accuracy.
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So, according to you one could "HO his opponent" from behind? .... if the opponent evades by turning around before the shots are fired.
I do not agree with that.
So, according to you, if two pilots fire at each other 600 yards out, but one pilot misses 10 yards to the left while the other pilot takes the other guys wing off as they pass, it wasn't a "head on" because the other pilot's nose wasn't directly pointed at his enemy since he missed! :rofl
Sorry Blauk, you couldn't be anymore wrong.
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I did not say anything about firing or hitting required, quite the contrary. The situation and the real attempt exist, that is enough.
The limits are a gray area, but I'd say it is enough to see each other through the front window.
You did not answer my question though. Could not back it up with any arguments or explanations?
Sorry Blauk, you couldn't be anymore wrong.
I know, and I was not wrong before either :P
Steve,
..hmm nothing...
You guys can start to grow up by accepting that HOs happen and will always be part of this game, or you can keep on whining forever.
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You did not answer my question though. Could not back it up with any arguments or explanations?
What was the question? If it was this:
So, according to you one could "HO his opponent" from behind? .... if the opponent evades by turning around before the shots are fired.
I didn't answer because the absurdity of the question didn't merit a response.
The limits are a gray area
You are contradicting yourself now and agreeing with me. You said a HO is when both planes have gun solution nose on with one another. How can there be gray area with that definition?
I'd say it is enough to see each other through the front window.
Front window as in the front screen? That's a pretty large gray area.
You guys can start to grow up by accepting that HOs happen and will always be part of this game, or you can keep on whining forever.
Is this your generic soap box trainer send off remark in HO threads? Nobody was whining.
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So, according to you, if two pilots fire at each other 600 yards out, but one pilot misses 10 yards to the left while the other pilot takes the other guys wing off as they pass, it wasn't a "head on" because the other pilot's nose wasn't directly pointed at his enemy since he missed! :rofl
Sorry Blauk, you couldn't be anymore wrong.
One is a sharpshooter the other is an accuracy impaired hoer :p
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I don't think these threads about hoing ever gets to an final agreement on the subject, and thereby I find it somewhat useless to contribute in them.. But anyway, I can always make my worthless input along with the others also.. :rock
Its always a sad feeling when you have flown for several boring minutes in search of an suitable con for a good merge followed by a long lasting 1v1, and what you get is blazing guns from 600 out as you try to merge with him..
Or you get what looks like a perfect merge all the way, only followed by that fameous snap shot just as you pass giving you a fatal damage or in worst case instant kill.
That's just fine, that's how some people like to spend their money on the game. I just find it kinda boring in the long run..
On the other hand, I am really glad there are alot of pilots that never take those ho shots and that's when I get my value for the money spent in this game! Because then it is possible to get some real good practice on some moves to get on the other players 6 instead. And that's where all the fun in the game is for my part anyway.. Its those really long lasting fights that's really make this game fun, learning new stuff about manouvering the plane on the border on what's possible. That's really a kick! :rock
And when you are all worn out after a single fight, your hands are shaking, eyes running after high concentration, every single muscle in your body feels sour and you have a pulse like you just finished a marathon then you know you've had a good fight! No matter if you died or survived! :x
The point for me is to have a blast, and hopefully have learned some new moves to take along to the next fight.
You don't get that in a ho.. :rolleyes:
Big <Salute> to all the non-hoers out there! :salute :aok
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I'll HO you while in a Spit 1. As for me being smart, when you're in the tower, you can ask yourself that question. Just because you have 8 50cals, cannon, etc, DOES NOT mean you have good accuracy.
If you like to do that in a spit1 go right ahead. I like to hold the trigger down till the the other guy is in range. I really don't think you mean that. You just don't know how good the other guys accuracy is until it's too late. :D
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What was the question? If it was this:
I didn't answer because the absurdity of the question didn't merit a response.
So, how much, in your opinion, does one have to evade, not to call it an HO? Or how early? That is what I was asking for, since you claim that it is still an HO when one of them turn away before the "HOer :rolleyes:" shoots. Nothing gray in that? You have a clear definition for when one can be called a single "HOer"?
Front window as in the front screen? That's a pretty large gray area.
Plane's front window, wind shied, whateverucallit. If both see each other through it, I'd call it an HO
Is this your generic soap box trainer send off remark in HO threads? Nobody was whining.
Every time someone writes how he was "HOed" or calls someone else a "HOer", what else is it than a whine? It is all about trying to preach how others have played wrong and how oneself has become a victim of that foul play. It is about making rules on how and when one is allowed to be shot at, about how others should play the game for one to enjoy it. It is the absolutely wrong way of trying to have fun.
There are very few posts about how an HO happened and how both sides were in control of the situation and accepted the consequences. That would not count as whining.
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So, how much, in your opinion, does one have to evade, not to call it an HO? Or how early? That is what I was asking for, since you claim that it is still an HO when one of them turn away before the "HOer :rolleyes:" shoots. Nothing gray in that? You have a clear definition for when one can be called a single "HOer"?
Plane's front window, wind shied, whateverucallit. If both see each other through it, I'd call it an HO
Every time someone writes how he was "HOed" or calls someone else a "HOer", what else is it than a whine? It is all about trying to preach how others have played wrong and how oneself has become a victim of that foul play. It is about making rules on how and when one is allowed to be shot at, about how others should play the game for one to enjoy it. It is the absolutely wrong way of trying to have fun.
There are very few posts about how an HO happened and how both sides were in control of the situation and accepted the consequences. That would not count as whining.
BlauK 100% right
the only foul play is not to accept your own defeat! you simply fool you own. Accept your own defeat, its the first step learning to get better, to have an idea when the opponent will be at the 100% solution, for some its the dead 6, other preffer a deflection solution because of the bigger surface. And other think the HO might bring the quick solution. whatever it takes, its valid as long you join the fight. dont tell other how they should play, learn how to turn the fight into the way you like to have it, and accept that other tries that too, if they have the better skills, the better situation awarness, or they outnumber you simply and you opponent shoots you down, just accept it, if you will show some respect, send him an salute instead of whine and whine.
you can't get better with whining, start work on yourself! Start to work on teamplay! There is no truth in dogfighting. you have allways 2 sides of a medal, so dont think you can call the otherone the HOer, you play a role too. Just from a different Point of View, thats all
<S>
dhyran
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this was a ho. i'm the 38. i got lucky.,..i won that one.
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/ho4.jpg)
it was the 3rd pass that this guy kept tryin to ho me, and i figured i'd return the favor. :t
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this was a ho. i'm the 38. i got lucky.,..i won that one.
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/1LTCAP/ho4.jpg)
it was the 3rd pass that this guy kept tryin to ho me, and i figured i'd return the favor. :t
This is what drives me nuts about this whole damn HO debate. If you and I were fighting I would have considered that a deflection shot and not a HO. Somehow, somewhere somebody decided to expand the envelope of what is considered a HO. Still thinking this debate will go on for centuries... :(
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This is what drives me nuts about this whole damn HO debate. If you and I were fighting I would have considered that a deflection shot and not a HO. Somehow, somewhere somebody decided to expand the envelope of what is considered a HO. Still thinking this debate will go on for centuries... :(
i think the angle i did tghe screenin from makes it look that way. i was taking hits from him, as i was hitting him. i survived....with a pw, both engines with oil hits, one with a coolant hit, leaking fuel tanks.......i barley made it to the runway. he went boom.
i was looking through my pics for a front angle deflection shot, but i don't see one i've uploaded.
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i think the angle i did tghe screenin from makes it look that way. i was taking hits from him, as i was hitting him. i survived....with a pw, both engines with oil hits, one with a coolant hit, leaking fuel tanks.......i barley made it to the runway. he went boom.
i was looking through my pics for a front angle deflection shot, but i don't see one i've uploaded.
CC. Thank you for clarification. So he did have somewhat of a gun solution on your nose.
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CC. Thank you for clarification. So he did have somewhat of a gun solution on your nose.
ooo....he had a good solution.
i was stupid for taking it, but i was in kind of a pissy mood that night, and that was all that dude kept doing. i tried the first 2 passes to come round, saddle him, and get him to turn, but he was haulin arse.......so on this pass i lined up and took my chances..........
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ooo....he had a good solution.
i was stupid for taking it, but i was in kind of a pissy mood that night, and that was all that dude kept doing. i tried the first 2 passes to come round, saddle him, and get him to turn, but he was haulin arse.......so on this pass i lined up and took my chances..........
It is not my preferred methodology either. It does end up that way on occasion unfortunately. I fly Spits primarily and we all know how easy they break. Don't sneeze or my wing will fall off! :lol
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I don't think these threads about hoing ever gets to an final agreement on the subject, and thereby I find it somewhat useless to contribute in them..
Yes I agree about the "forever debate" heheh
BUT when this thread started I bet someone that this would go between 12-14 pages - IF YA'LL QUIT the Forever Debate now I win a bottle of SCOTCH!! :x
...cheers eh! :D
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what's in it for us? :devil
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what's in it for us? :devil
hehehe - given my poor marksmanship no sense in offering not to shoot you down - that happens now already lol
AND stop "bumping" the thread post count up you rotter!!! :rofl
...cheers eh! :D
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This is why it does not take 2 to HO
A very entertaining film (49 secs) A well known 200 bad boy is silenced after this failed HO attempt. I avoid, he fully commits.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ymwnundjlzn (http://www.mediafire.com/?ymwnundjlzn)
enjoy
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it was the 3rd pass that this guy kept tryin to ho me, and i figured i'd return the favor. :t
Just for curiosity, how did he do it?
Was he always turning into you when you were attacking him?
That is the only way I have so far been able to figure for... "trying to ho" someone.
Or are there some other ways that I am unaware of?
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Just for curiosity, how did he do it?
Was he always turning into you when you were attacking him?
That is the only way I have so far been able to figure for... "trying to ho" someone.
Or are there some other ways that I am unaware of?
yea. i'd try to merge.....tried 3 different ways, and chase him a bit. i never turn my back on 190's. 'cause they getg back to me so amazingly fast.....so i;d try "porpiosing" to keep some extra speed. he extended to about 2 to 2.5k each time.
the first time, a simple dive under him, caused him to miss. 2nd time, i slipped off to the side, and was throttled back before he was within 1k of me.....was trying to get around while still in guns range. i think he tagged me on that one. 3rd time, i went up n over......came down, chased....he turned, and this time i centered him in my sights....and started shooting at almost 2k out....held the trigger till the last minute, then went under to avoid the collision. each time we passed, he was shooting from pretty far out. he never once attempted to merge. he was helbent on using the ho.
like i said....i really shouldn't have accepted it.......but i did 'cause i was in a pissy mood that night. i was also VERY surprised to come out of it still flying. :bolt:
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Hoing is more of a reflection of the pilot thats hoing than the the pilot who get ho'ed.
generally, if you ho on your merges with regularity, its because your a horrible pilot.
That said...
If you ho and miss the shot, expect to die.
Also, people who ho regularly rely on it to survive and thus never get better and never learn any other ACMs, except maybe for the all so frequent Spitty stick stirring when your on their six.
So, if you ho, you might as well announce on chann 200 that you suck at flying.
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Could you, please, elaborate on how you define "who hoes" and "who gets hoed".
IMO, people who opt to HO regularily are doing it to get kills regardless of losing their lives, not for trying to survive.
Some, like myself, do it as a last option when trying to survive, when there is nothing to lose anymore.
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Could you, please, elaborate on how you define "who hoes" and "who gets hoed".
IMO, people who opt to HO regularily are doing it to get kills regardless of losing their lives, not for trying to survive.
Some, like myself, do it as a last option when trying to survive, when there is nothing to lose anymore.
He who shoots HOs. If your looking for a good fight you'll pass on the HO shot and try to get guns in any other position.
Your right some just want a kill. They are usually starved for kills and have few. They are not concerned with trying to learn their bird. Once they start HOing they usuall find themselves depending on it more and more. Usually when they miss they find themselves in the tower. These same individuals also find themselves at a loss of what to do when they are attacked. There is just little to no ACM knowledge. They have chosen to displace learning with a simple HO.
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Could you, please, elaborate on how you define "who hoes" and "who gets hoed".
Some, like myself, do it as a last option when trying to survive,
THIs is when and why i do it.
i suck at avoiding them. i keep trying....and get a little better each time.
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THIs is when and why i do it.
i suck at avoiding them. i keep trying....and get a little better each time.
We keep Cap's 38 in a barn still because he is so into Ho Downs..... yeeeehaaaaaa
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Once they start HOing they usuall find themselves depending on it more and more.
LOL You make it sound like airplane crack! :rofl
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So, how much, in your opinion, does one have to evade, not to call it an HO? Or how early? That is what I was asking for, since you claim that it is still an HO when one of them turn away before the "HOer :rolleyes:" shoots. Nothing gray in that? You have a clear definition for when one can be called a single "HOer"?
There is a gray area and if you maneuver too much away from the head on merge you are setting yourself up to get shot at, even though they will usually miss. The thing is, most guys taking this off set merge shot (Whether it's a HO or not depends on how much off set you are and definitions of the gray area) are the same guys taking the shot if you flew directly at him. So whether or not you consider it a HO, he's still a HO'er because I've played enough to know the type of pilot who will shoot at the red guy no matter what the situation.
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LOL You make it sound like airplane crack! :rofl
For some isn't it?
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LOL You make it sound like airplane crack! :rofl
m airplane cracks when it hits the dirt. :rofl :noid :bolt:
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I bet this conversation would not go near as far if it was held by the fighter pilots of WWII. If they lived it was a viable option. If they are dead it just does not matter does it. This thread is one of those nightmares that just will not go away.
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I bet this conversation would not go near as far if it was held by the fighter pilots of WWII. If they lived it was a viable option. If they are dead it just does not matter does it. This thread is one of those nightmares that just will not go away.
Your right, however this is not real life. This is a video game. You won't "die" sitting in your office chair, therefor the only thing that really matters is the fight. A H.O. is a joust, not a fight.
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It is funny how many of you guys make unbelievable assumptions and insist that HOing is a mind set of a HOer, a character trait, a disease, or something like that :) Those who "get HOed" are victims of these clearly identifiable low life individuals, called HOers. A HOer does this, thinks that, looks like..., smells like... :rolleyes: They are those no-skill newbies who don't want to learn ACM, and they still irritate you and shoot you down :)
How should we call those who still fly directly towards their opponents guns without any intention to shoot, and expect not to get shot at while doing that (without prearranged dueling rules)? Would you call that normal behavior or extreme gullibility? It must be some inherited gene related issue where one is drawn to situations where he gets to play a victim and gets to whine about it :cool: These guys are much easier to identify, they announce themselves on this board day after day.
It is sad, but I know that it is sometimes difficult to accept responsibility of one's own actions. It is always easier to blame others and to find excuses, but such attitude does not help one to improve his own flying at all.
I still claim that a "HOer" is a fairy-tale creature, an excuse created by those who are not in control of their own flying and fighting. I've never "been HOed" and thus I've never seen such HOer creature. No-one can force an HO on me, I decide where my plane flies :joystick:
I have only been participating (voluntarily) in some infrequent HO passes with all kinds of opponents (newbies and vets), during which either or both of us may have fired our guns. That's all.
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It is funny how many of you guys make unbelievable assumptions and insist that HOing is a mind set of a HOer, a character trait, a disease, or something like that :) Those who "get HOed" are victims of these clearly identifiable low life individuals, called HOers. A HOer does this, thinks that, looks like..., smells like... :rolleyes: They are those no-skill newbies who don't want to learn ACM, and they still irritate you and shoot you down :)
How should we call those who still fly directly towards their opponents guns without any intention to shoot, and expect not to get shot at while doing that (without prearranged dueling rules)? Would you call that normal behavior or extreme gullibility? It must be some inherited gene related issue where one is drawn to situations where he gets to play a victim and gets to whine about it :cool: These guys are much easier to identify, they announce themselves on this board day after day.
It is sad, but I know that it is sometimes difficult to accept responsibility of one's own actions. It is always easier to blame others and to find excuses, but such attitude does not help one to improve his own flying at all.
I still claim that a "HOer" is a fairy-tale creature, an excuse created by those who are not in control of their own flying and fighting. I've never "been HOed" and thus I've never seen such HOer creature. No-one can force an HO on me, I decide where my plane flies :joystick:
I have only been participating (voluntarily) in some infrequent HO passes with all kinds of opponents (newbies and vets), during which either or both of us may have fired our guns. That's all.
Amen Blauk!
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Prrrrraise the true ACM :pray :angel:, stay clear of the evil heretics of the HO'ees Cult :O
:noid :bolt:
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Prrrrraise the true ACM :pray :angel:, stay clear of the evil heretics of the HO'ees Cult :O
:noid :bolt:
:rofl
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Then there are those that fly on a perch and/or with numbers (and that is pretty much how they fly/fight w/o exception) and when they do get "forced" into a fight end up taking the face shot because in all reality, they never DID learn how to fight worth a hoot and consider actually having to knife fight someone a "desperate" situation and ho away like a two week noob.
Of COURSE said pilots look on people that complain about ho'rs with contempt as they would never ever dream of being in an actual fight they didn't hold all the cards in. (unless one is forced upon them, in which case they die, generally quick and dumb)
Lord knows these pilots pretty much only see the front of the nme planes in their rear view as they are hauling tookus away to safety after blowing their pick attempt (or they see that the numbers, or playing field is "even", in which case they get the heck out of dodge and back to their safe perch and gaggle of friends)
The whole concept of a co-alt, co-e merge or *gasp* heaven forbid that the nme has alt/e, is alien to said pilots as they learned a long time ago that such things were "bad" because they tend to loose those types of engagements. They don't have to worry about things such as head on as they would NEVER put themself in a situation (willingly) where the have to merge with an nme without a massive advantage and clear escape route.
Yes... far safer to fly in a pack, make sure you have alt and e on everything in the sector, and only come near a bad guy when their attention is focused elsewhere.
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Blauk, I think you hit someone's nerve. :D :rofl
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Blauk, I think you hit someone's nerve. :D :rofl
It that is in reply to my post...
What makes you think it was about BlauK???
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It that is in reply to my post...
What makes you think it was about BlauK???
Brave ASSumption I'd say! :D
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Good attempt Lute :aok
I'll confess on most of that. The parts I do not recognize in myself are:
- Flying with numbers. I don't like it, because all those friendlies are quicker to empty the table and I get less kills. I most often try to avoid too many friendlies and rather look for a larger red bar.
- I humbly assume that flying this kind of games 10+ years has taught me enough of that truly heroic yank and bank stuff. I just find it boring. I rarely fight against a single enemy, but rather against several at the same time. At least I am always tracking multiple bogies while maneuvering.
Yup, I try to fly and fight so well that I do not have to show how well I can fly and fight. That is my fun.
I am also guilty of whining about whining. This HO'ee stuff just gets under my skin. Those poor helpless victims :cry
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Yup, WMaker.
Not just someone's, but several of them. I know it is a fight against windmills, but it is sometimes entertaining.
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It that is in reply to my post...
What makes you think it was about BlauK???
What makes you think I was talking about you? :)
I just did some catching up to this thread which I hadn't read for a while and made my observation based on that. :)
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. I know it is a fight against windmills, but it is sometimes entertaining.
its like having a mission, telling people to learn ACMs, learn teamplay instead of whining
Looks like it can be a mission for the next 10 years Sir! Lets sharpen the knifes than... ah loading guns :cool:
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I bet this conversation would not go near as far if it was held by the fighter pilots of WWII. If they lived it was a viable option. If they are dead it just does not matter does it. This thread is one of those nightmares that just will not go away.
wow......made it 14 pages before someone tried to throw the "real pilot living" into this. :airplane: :joystick:
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there's something funny here though.
you can go into a fight, talking on vox. you might mention that 190, or hurri2c that's turning to merge with you, as you get ready for the fight.
then you almost always hear it. "that's probably joeblow. he's been in the area all night. watch out for him, all he does is ho. "
or............"o yea that's jimmybean. he's a good stick, and he won't ho ya. wait'll you see how he makes that dam 190 move at low speeds."
or........"o yea, that's smelly sam. he won't come down. if he does, he'll run till he has alt, then come back."
people build themselves reps within our little community here. people don't change. not in real life, or on line.
most know who the ho'ers are, who the alt monkeys are, who the fighters are, who the pickers are, etc.
in the case of the ho'ers, most that do it, don't need to. they're good enough to spend a little time to maneuver for a kill without using this tactic. lot of them don't land anyway, so there's no "survival" argument here. they just wanna see the "biiig badaboom" no matter what. point n click.
at least the guys that bnz, and pick, take the time to go land their kills.
that's my morning thoughts for the day. :banana: :bolt: :headscratch:
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hmmm smelly sam........ havent seen him around ....... is he any good or does he stink?
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BlauK, you don't think there's such thing as a weak/cheap shot? I sure do, whether or not you call it a HO. I'm guilty of taking it sometimes but I don't make a habit of it.
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(http://koti.welho.com/skukkone/kuvia/PAWs/PAW_ho_whining.gif)
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Hmm.. not really, Grizz. IMHO, we are all playing this game knowing the risk of getting shot at. The only cheap shots I can think of are those which steal a kill from another friendly pilot. The opponents deserve all hits they receive :) It is up to themselves to take care of their SA and to co-operate with their countrymen.
Maybe a cheap shot could be killing a badly damaged opponent who has fought well against overwelming odds and is limping home. If I saw such I might let him go.
If someone is flying straight at my face and I am flying at his, I see nothing cheap in it. I either decide to accept the challenge or I dodge it.
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Gosh... :O dhyran "PAWNED" :D
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hehehe - given my poor marksmanship no sense in offering not to shoot you down - that happens now already lol
AND stop "bumping" the thread post count up you rotter!!! :rofl
...cheers eh! :D
NOT MY FAULT!!!
i didn't take it past the limit. :bolt:
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Gosh... :O dhyran "PAWNED" :D
cc PAWNED! by P.A.W.
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NOT MY FAULT!!!
i didn't take it past the limit. :bolt:
LOL - well half way into the bottle now with my buddy who won lol
Unfortunately I had to buy it!! :(
...hehehe cheer eh! :D
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LOL - well half way into the bottle now with my buddy who won lol
Unfortunately I had to buy it!! :(
...hehehe cheer eh! :D
:rofl :aok :rofl
sounds like you won either way sir!
:banana: :banana:
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Well count me in with the altitude monkeys. Sounds funny. It is my impression from most of what I have read is to insure E retention. Speed is life. Alt is speed. The planes I fly most are not turn fighters. I do not plan on getting down low and dirty with you just to get into your planes performance envelope. Do I fly with squad mates. Damn Skippy. That is smart flying also.
I am not the best pilot by a long shot or the worst. Little by little I learn more and more. But to imply that someone is not a good pilot because they use altitude or fly with a wing man or others is not the most intelligent assumption.
But it does make for good reading so continue. I am looking forward to an entertaining night.
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Hmm.. not really, Grizz. IMHO, we are all playing this game knowing the risk of getting shot at. The only cheap shots I can think of are those which steal a kill from another friendly pilot. The opponents deserve all hits they receive :) It is up to themselves to take care of their SA and to co-operate with their countrymen.
Maybe a cheap shot could be killing a badly damaged opponent who has fought well against overwelming odds and is limping home. If I saw such I might let him go.
If someone is flying straight at my face and I am flying at his, I see nothing cheap in it. I either decide to accept the challenge or I dodge it.
It's an interesting perspective even though I disagree. I could care less honestly if everybody shot head on at me, because I'm gonna dodge it anyways.
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Well count me in with the altitude monkeys. Sounds funny. It is my impression from most of what I have read is to insure E retention. Speed is life. Alt is speed. The planes I fly most are not turn fighters. I do not plan on getting down low and dirty with you just to get into your planes performance envelope. Do I fly with squad mates. Damn Skippy. That is smart flying also.
I am not the best pilot by a long shot or the worst. Little by little I learn more and more. But to imply that someone is not a good pilot because they use altitude or fly with a wing man or others is not the most intelligent assumption.
But it does make for good reading so continue. I am looking forward to an entertaining night.
You might be surprised what your plane can do if you take the time to learn it more completely.
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All Ive heard for arguements for HOs is...in real life they did it(true, but this is a game and life isnt in the question actually it makes you less likely to live if you do) and that its part of the game that isnt going away....this makes me think very low upon the people who say it. Cheap shots happen, mistakes, but like Grizz said dont make a habit out of it, I wont HO even when getting ganged just so when I do fight 1v1 I wont pull the trigger just through muscle memory. If you HO a complete noob he is gunna think that they are accepted by the community and he is going to do it until he finds out he will get killed less avioding it. You Hoing are just showing the new guys the wrong thing and building an even more upsetting MA...
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Some say it takes three to doseedo.
Anyone got a fiddle?
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All Ive heard for arguements for HOs is...
What you will get from me, and what I think is the best attitude about it, is to say that this game is primarily a GUNS game. As such when the path of a bullet from the barrel of my gun(s) intersects with the path of YOU then expect to be fired upon.
To me it is best to have the bad guy pointing away from me, but AH is a three dimensional environment and the geometry of movement being free on all three axis allows for unpredictable angles, which afterall makes playing the game such a fascinating undertaking.
Lastly, if your going to play the game with the attitude that a certain shot is not a sporting shot and should not be taken, then you are going to become upset because AH is not a sport. It is a combat game without restrictions. Get yourself in the path of my bullets you will be shot at. Having said that, of course, avoid the HO but be prepared to execute the head-on shot offensively and to avoid it defensively.
Shuffler, it is well and good to say learn your aircraft but remember to talk about Situational Awareness as well. SA is just as important as understanding ACM and individual aircraft capabilites. If you cannot read the fight you are getting into then you are going to get hammered regardless of your abilities in any given aircraft.
:salute
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You might be surprised what your plane can do if you take the time to learn it more completely.
constantly :devil
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Very nice post, Yeager.
Knowing the HO and being prepared to encounter or execute it does not mean one must go for it. At least it will not surprise, shock or disappoint one anymore. Thus there are also less reasons to whine about it.
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What you will get from me, and what I think is the best attitude about it, is to say that this game is primarily a GUNS game. As such when the path of a bullet from the barrel of my gun(s) intersects with the path of YOU then expect to be fired upon.
To me it is best to have the bad guy pointing away from me, but AH is a three dimensional environment and the geometry of movement being free on all three axis allows for unpredictable angles, which afterall makes playing the game such a fascinating undertaking.
Lastly, if your going to play the game with the attitude that a certain shot is not a sporting shot and should not be taken, then you are going to become upset because AH is not a sport. It is a combat game without restrictions. Get yourself in the path of my bullets you will be shot at. Having said that, of course, avoid the HO but be prepared to execute the head-on shot offensively and to avoid it defensively.
Shuffler, it is well and good to say learn your aircraft but remember to talk about Situational Awareness as well. SA is just as important as understanding ACM and individual aircraft capabilites. If you cannot read the fight you are getting into then you are going to get hammered regardless of your abilities in any given aircraft.
:salute
HO and offense should never be in the same statement. HO can be argued as a last option in an attempt to survive a fight or take some down with you, but to say to use it as an offensive tactic makes you ignorant even though you seem to have played even longer then me. A first time player can put his nose at a plane coming straight at him and do damage to the enemy plane. Why take a 50/50 shot when you might be able to get your opponents 6 and not even worry about what he does at all? You can aviod a HO all day but even some of the worst sticks can get lucky and hit you, maybe not killing you but at a nose to nose angle its most likely gunna be oil/rad/pw damage.
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Very nice post, Yeager.
Knowing the HO and being prepared to encounter or execute it does not mean one must go for it. At least it will not surprise, shock or disappoint one anymore. Thus there are also less reasons to whine about it.
Wow you think it would take skill to preform a HO/ dodge it.....Theres no skill to it at all, no skill killing someone avioding it , if it doesnt take some skill why would you do it?
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Sorry Junky,
but at least I have hard time trying to figure your point in those 2 posts.
HO is not an offensive tactic? :O What is it then? I think everyone else in this thread will say it is an offensive (also a pun intended ;) ) tactic.
Also it does not happen automatically. Some skill is always required, not in tactical sense, but in aiming and firing, and in correctly timed dodges. Furthermore, many players play this game for FUN. Fun cannot be measured solely with or through skill.
Or what was exactly your argument? :huh
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ho's once in awhile are ok. they happen....like others have said.
but there's those, that don't need to do it, but insist on doing it, rather than enjoying the fight. there are some that are toolazy to take the time to maneuever. or if they see they're losing angles, they line one up, and do it.
they seem to fear loosing their cartoon airplane. like it may damage their ego should they go down in cartoon flames.
i understand everyone's idea of fun is different, but i can't understand how one could consistantly cheat themselves out of so much fun as is being offered to them.
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Fun is different for all of us, like you said. Maybe those who often choose to go for HO do not consider RTBing so important or fun, but I dont think they fear the losses hardly at all. After all they are taking maximum risk in their attacks.
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Fun is different for all of us. Maybe those who often choose go for HO do not consider RTBing so important or fun.
i didn't take that part into account, as i don't consider rtb'ing most of the time. should i make it, then goody for me. :D
if not.........then ooooopsie :neener:
the only time i REALLY try, is if i get out of a fight with a lot of damage, making it difficult to fly my airplane, or with a pw, then it suddenly becomes a challenge, and i want to make it. :airplane:
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Fighters don't HO, gamers do. that pretty much sums it up.
If your flying for the fight you are always looking to get yourself into a prime firering solution, fighting to get the bogie to loose his "E" and options so that you can win the fight by destroying his ability to fight back.
Gamers on the other hand are looking to add to their kills on the score page. They need nothing more than another "tally" added so go about getting it any way that they can.
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Read the books, watch the documentaries...Head Ons were common place.....get over it.
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Fighters don't HO, gamers do. that pretty much sums it up.
If your flying for the fight you are always looking to get yourself into a prime firering solution, fighting to get the bogie to loose his "E" and options so that you can win the fight by destroying his ability to fight back.
Gamers on the other hand are looking to add to their kills on the score page. They need nothing more than another "tally" added so go about getting it any way that they can.
hhmm././......wonder .....since there's a couple other threads about other arenas.........if we should petition for a "gamers" arena then?
then all of those doods could go game all they like. :joystick: :airplane:
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See Rule #4
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another idiot comparing a "game" to war :rolleyes:
"I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL........"
This is a primier WWII combat war game - see your enemies dieing in flaming wrecks and blood soaked cockpits - hear them screaming on radio - watch them hurling threats and calling you tards and noobs as they die - defeat the heathen rooks and dastadly bishops and send them back to Hell where they belong - defeat the forces of Evil!!
...hmmm - ya mean this ISN"T real?? MOM?.....MOM?.....they lied to me again...make them stop!! :rofl
...now what idiot thinks this isn't real eh?? :D
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Wow you think it would take skill to preform a HO/ dodge it.....Theres no skill to it at all, no skill killing someone avioding it , if it doesnt take some skill why would you do it?
I respectfully disagree. Look at the best performing players in the game, they rarely ever let themselves get into a position, or be forced into one, that generates an unwanted Head-On shot.
Experience, knowledge of the plane they are in, and veterans SA pretty much deals out any unwanted Head-On shots. In my own case (not being one of the best performers), when I have an aggressive opponent that is beginning to threaten me in a better performing airplane (I tend to fly planes NOT in the top 5) and there is no satisfactory egress for me, I can typically position myself to take advantage of good frontal quarter shots. Not the straight up nose to nose stuff, but more difficult high deflection front quarter shots. Shots that come from better than average marksmenship. The kind of shots that generate "HO-tard" comments from less mature or easily frustrated players.
Thats my view of it.
:salute
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another idiot comparing a "game" to war :rolleyes:
I try very hard, REALLY REALLY hard not to call people idiots are insult them personally here.
Its a good way to go.
:rock :salute
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I try very hard, REALLY REALLY hard not to call people idiots are insult them personally here.
Its a good way to go.
:rock :salute
yep Yeager - it's always amazed me how some seem to think that by insulting others it willl somehow endear them to their way of thinking. Now having said that I myself will admit to insulting behavior occasionally- but it was TOTALLY intentional!!!!! :lol :lol :lol
cheers eh! :D
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yep Yeager - it's always amazed me how some seem to think that by insulting others it willl somehow endear them to their way of thinking. Now having said that I myself will admit to insulting behavior occasionally- but it was TOTALLY intentional!!!!! :lol :lol :lol
cheers eh! :D
poopieface!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:bolt: :noid :bolt:
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Wow you think it would take skill to preform a HO/ dodge it.....Theres no skill to it at all, no skill killing someone avioding it , if it doesnt take some skill why would you do it?
I offensively HO in an IL2. Amazing how many people still come straight at you. :x :airplane:
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I offensively HO in an IL2. Amazing how many people still come straight at you. :x :airplane:
According to BlauK the trainer it's a great offensive tactic, why not?
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Grizz,
get your facts right. I am no trainer and I have not called it a "great" offensive tactic.
Where do you invent all that stuff??
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According to BlauK the trainer it's a great offensive tactic, why not?
Blauk is not trainer... but...
Being a trainer does not mean as much as some think. Most of them donate time to helping others. Does not mean they are correct with everything they may say.
Case in point..... ex-cop teaching a gun safety course for concealed carry. He said to everyone in a class that if they hear a noise in their home to investigate and shoot anyone they may find. When told I would not just shoot without identifying first as I have a wife and daughter in the house. He said if I wait I may get shot.
What that trainer was telling folks was going to get someone's family memeber killed.
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Grizz,
get your facts right. I am no trainer and I have not called it a "great" offensive tactic.
Where do you invent all that stuff??
I'm going to go ahead and pull the booze card on this one. Sorry. :)
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Fugitive was right....THIS ISNT REAL LIFE so dont use real life stuff as an arguement, You dont see Soldiers saying anything about noob tubing people in Call of duty...because they know it isnt real life. I cant argue anymore...I know there isnt any use.....
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Fugitive was right....THIS ISNT REAL LIFE so dont use real life stuff as an arguement, You dont see Soldiers saying anything about noob tubing people in Call of duty...because they know it isnt real life. I cant argue anymore...I know there isnt any use.....
I'm having real life fun! :)
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HO's are a legal but perhaps questionable manauver.
I knew a girl named Mary who HO'd to make a living.
Therefore what Mary did was legal. :eek: :rolleyes: :eek:
You can prove just about anything you want by taking it out of context.
If you're having fun then great - if not then perhaps you need to consider alternatives.
cheers eh! :D
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hhmmm....remember all those old westerns? where they had the showdowns in the street?
10 paces, turn n fire? technically speaking, weren't they ho'ing each other?
:noid :bolt:
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I cant argue anymore...I know there isnt any use.....
"When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave". —Master Kan Kung Fu.
:x
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hhmmm....remember all those old westerns? where they had the showdowns in the street?
10 paces, turn n fire? technically speaking, weren't they ho'ing each other?
:noid :bolt:
lol my dad watches those all the time :lol
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Hmmmm....remember all those old westerns? where they had the showdowns in the street?
10 paces, turn n fire? technically speaking, weren't they ho'ing each other?
:noid :bolt:
In fact...wasn't shooting a guy in the back the COWARDS way? :D
Ho-ing takes the dogfight out of the combat...but so does alt money pic-tarding which was also mentioned in this thread. Folks with good dogfighting skills and maneuverable planes want the game to be about dogfighting, but like the real war, the MA is about more than that. All of this whining about "Ho-ing" is just an attempt at a guilt trip to force pilots to give the advantage to pilots with higher skill levels by only engaging 'highly skilled' kills.
It's probably true that the (many) highly skilled pilots in this game would never be killed by pilot of lesser skill if it weren't for pick-tarding, and Ho-ing. So rather than be cannon fodder until I develop that kind of skill level, I'm going to shoot at what ever I have a gun solution on. (most likely I'll miss anyway)
I'm simply not good enough to give up an easy kill by NOT pulling the trigger on a bandit dumb enough to fly straight at me.
But I would suggest that is what makes the MA like the real war in that Skill level was often no guarantee of success.
Better break early. ;)
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In fact...wasn't shooting a guy in the back the COWARDS way? :D
Ho-ing takes the dogfight out of the combat...but so does alt money pic-tarding which was also mentioned in this thread. Folks with good dogfighting skills and maneuverable planes want the game to be about dogfighting, but like the real war, the MA is about more than that. All of this whining about "Ho-ing" is just an attempt at a guilt trip to force pilots to give the advantage to pilots with higher skill levels by only engaging 'highly skilled' kills.
It's probably true that the (many) highly skilled pilots in this game would never be killed by pilot of lesser skill if it weren't for pick-tarding, and Ho-ing. So rather than be cannon fodder until I develop that kind of skill level, I'm going to shoot at what ever I have a gun solution on. (most likely I'll miss anyway)
I'm simply not good enough to give up an easy kill by NOT pulling the trigger on a bandit dumb enough to fly straight at me.
But I would suggest that is what makes the MA like the real war in that Skill level was often no guarantee of success.
Better break early. ;)
I believe the point is..... if they ho they will never learn the skill to dogfight. You don't just wake up one day and suddenly find you can dogfight in your cartoon plane.
On a 500 mile dash by car... would you jump in a vehicle with someone driving who has never driven before? :)
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In fact...wasn't shooting a guy in the back the COWARDS way? :D
Ho-ing takes the dogfight out of the combat...but so does alt money pic-tarding which was also mentioned in this thread. Folks with good dogfighting skills and maneuverable planes want the game to be about dogfighting, but like the real war, the MA is about more than that. All of this whining about "Ho-ing" is just an attempt at a guilt trip to force pilots to give the advantage to pilots with higher skill levels by only engaging 'highly skilled' kills.
It's probably true that the (many) highly skilled pilots in this game would never be killed by pilot of lesser skill if it weren't for pick-tarding, and Ho-ing. So rather than be cannon fodder until I develop that kind of skill level, I'm going to shoot at what ever I have a gun solution on. (most likely I'll miss anyway)
I'm simply not good enough to give up an easy kill by NOT pulling the trigger on a bandit dumb enough to fly straight at me.
But I would suggest that is what makes the MA like the real war in that Skill level was often no guarantee of success.
Better break early. ;)
I HAVE to admit....i ho'd a few yesterday. the place was being horded. there were only 2 or 3 of us defending, and the cv was so close we could barley get off the runway. so.....outnumbered, and them all having alt......ho'ing was in the cards. i lost most of em anyway..... :rofl
one was accidental.....was a corsair, i thought wasn't gonna get his nose around as fast as he did......was set up for a beautiful shot, that would've raked him from stem to stern......he got round, and it turned into a ho......i
i don't like it, but when necessary, i do what i have to do. our defense was successful BTW. :aok :bolt:
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In, Combat Tactics in the SouthWest Pacific Area By Major Thomas B. McGuire, Jr. Published and Distributed by Asst. of S, A-3, V Fighter Command 4 May 1944 REPUBLISHED BY FEAF A-3 TRAINING SECTION 20, Oct. 1944, The HO is referenced several times as a legitimate tactic against planes with weaker armaments.
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In, Combat Tactics in the SouthWest Pacific Area By Major Thomas B. McGuire, Jr. Published and Distributed by Asst. of S, A-3, V Fighter Command 4 May 1944 REPUBLISHED BY FEAF A-3 TRAINING SECTION 20, Oct. 1944, The HO is referenced several times as a legitimate tactic against planes with weaker armaments.
OK........
all you guys that wanna compare this to real life.
here's what ya have to do.
have your wife, girlfriend, or just a friend stand by ya while you're flying. when you enter a stall buffet, have them shake the poop out of your seat, and screech really loud, to simulate the stall buzzer. if you do a hard turn...one that would normally knock your head on the canopy....have them slap ya in the side of the head with a frying pan.
if you spin your aircraft, they'll spin you till ya hurl in your seat.
and finally, if you start taking hits, they;ll stab ya many many times with an ice pick. blood on the canopy, they can splash some of yours on the monitor.
there. now you only get one life. now the ho becomes a valid tactic, 'cause your life really might depend on you winning that gamble. :airplane: :D :noid :bolt:
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The virtual air combat HO'ing is a joke. Get over it.
If you end up 'You vs many situation', then the unintentional HO situations just happened. So, what You would do right there?
In real life HO'ing, there's no netlag, no lost packets and no server side network predicting code. The hailing is REALLY on the way to you...
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Some one say Tutu ho?
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8477/tutuho.jpg) (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/tutuho.jpg/)
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Fugitive was right....THIS ISNT REAL LIFE so dont use real life stuff as an arguement, You dont see Soldiers saying anything about noob tubing people in Call of duty...because they know it isnt real life. I cant argue anymore...I know there isnt any use.....
lol on that note, I had my crew mounted a MK-19 instead of a 50 cal on my victor. Every day rolling out of the wire I look for an oppertunity to use it. Haven't happen yet =/
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There were some situations in WW2 where HOs were approved of, or even ordered to occur:
1) The Luftwaffe fighters defending the Reich against the 8th USAAF soon found out that the return fire of massed rear-facing 0.50" Brownings usually shredded them something cruel during the approach, and that the bomber's armour was mainly disposed to protect the crew from the shot-from-behind. The 109s and 190s took to flying in large line-abreast formations and used a head-on approach to a) hit the least-armoured part of the bombers b) maximize the damage done by each hitting round by adding the closing speed to its velocity c) use the fear of collision to cause the bombers to break formation d) reduce the time they were exposed to the bombers' return fire. The tactic was attempted at least twice (and definitely succeeded on the first attack) against the bomber force that carried out Mission 250, the 8th USAAF's first mass attack on Berlin, 6th March 1944. Individual LW pilots had already worked out that this was the most survivable approach against a B-17 or B-24; which is why the later models of both were fitted with twin-gun turrets under and in the nose respectively to supplement the single-gun 'lash-up' mountings carried previously.
2) RAF fighter pilots were taught to turn towards any attacker enjoying an advantage, in order to make the bandit's firing solution more difficult and hopefully induce the attacker into entering a turn-fight. It was dinned into him NEVER to turn away. The result was that the merge often had an element of the HO about it.
3) Any fighter pilot unlucky enough to find himself directly in a HO merge against an enemy risked eventual destruction by turning away before reaching firing range; he'd expose himself to a snap shot without being able to reply, or lose energy and his opponent would then be in a better position to manoeuvre onto his six. And his blood would likely be up, of course, and he'd be damned if he was going to 'chicken out' before the other guy . . .
The HO will be a feature of of air combat all the time people continue to fight each other in the air. Nuff said.
:salute
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There were some situations in WW2 where HOs were approved of, or even ordered to occur:
1) The Luftwaffe fighters defending the Reich against the 8th USAAF soon found out that the return fire of massed rear-facing 0.50" Brownings usually shredded them something cruel during the approach, and that the bomber's armour was mainly disposed to protect the crew from the shot-from-behind. The 109s and 190s took to flying in large line-abreast formations and used a head-on approach to a) hit the least-armoured part of the bombers b) maximize the damage done by each hitting round by adding the closing speed to its velocity c) use the fear of collision to cause the bombers to break formation d) reduce the time they were exposed to the bombers' return fire. The tactic was attempted at least twice (and definitely succeeded on the first attack) against the bomber force that carried out Mission 250, the 8th USAAF's first mass attack on Berlin, 6th March 1944. Individual LW pilots had already worked out that this was the most survivable approach against a B-17 or B-24; which is why the later models of both were fitted with twin-gun turrets under and in the nose respectively to supplement the single-gun 'lash-up' mountings carried previously.
2) RAF fighter pilots were taught to turn towards any attacker enjoying an advantage, in order to make the bandit's firing solution more difficult and hopefully induce the attacker into entering a turn-fight. It was dinned into him NEVER to turn away. The result was that the merge often had an element of the HO about it.
3) Any fighter pilot unlucky enough to find himself directly in a HO merge against an enemy risked eventual destruction by turning away before reaching firing range; he'd expose himself to a snap shot without being able to reply, or lose energy and his opponent would then be in a better position to manoeuvre onto his six. And his blood would likely be up, of course, and he'd be damned if he was going to 'chicken out' before the other guy . . .
The HO will be a feature of of air combat all the time people continue to fight each other in the air. Nuff said.
:salute
.... and all of that is useless information. We are playing a game in which one of the main objectives of the game is air combat. By going for, and using a "HO" your negating combat and gambling on a joust. I don't know about others, but I find no fun in flying head on into someone guns a blazing to win some, and to loose some. On the other hand, if I fight for 5 minutes against one or two enemy win or lose, IT'S A FRIKIN BLAST !
To me, that's the difference between "war", and what we do.
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ho ho ho your boat gently down the streammmm........nmerrily merrily merrily, this game is but a dreammmmmmm :neener: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane:
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And some participants prefer to try and reproduce at least some of the elements of WW2 flying, AH being a WW2 combat flight sim. You pays your money and makes your choice.
I don't think the information I've taken the trouble to supply is a waste of time to people who use AH as a combat flight simulation - but it obviously is to an arcade-gamer like you, who has nothing positive to add to what was an interesting thread.
Out.
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There were some situations in WW2 where HOs were approved of, or even ordered to occur:
1) The Luftwaffe fighters defending the Reich against the 8th USAAF soon found out that the return fire of massed rear-facing 0.50" Brownings usually shredded them something cruel during the approach, and that the bomber's armour was mainly disposed to protect the crew from the shot-from-behind. The 109s and 190s took to flying in large line-abreast formations and used a head-on approach to a) hit the least-armoured part of the bombers b) maximize the damage done by each hitting round by adding the closing speed to its velocity c) use the fear of collision to cause the bombers to break formation d) reduce the time they were exposed to the bombers' return fire. The tactic was attempted at least twice (and definitely succeeded on the first attack) against the bomber force that carried out Mission 250, the 8th USAAF's first mass attack on Berlin, 6th March 1944. Individual LW pilots had already worked out that this was the most survivable approach against a B-17 or B-24; which is why the later models of both were fitted with twin-gun turrets under and in the nose respectively to supplement the single-gun 'lash-up' mountings carried previously.
2) RAF fighter pilots were taught to turn towards any attacker enjoying an advantage, in order to make the bandit's firing solution more difficult and hopefully induce the attacker into entering a turn-fight. It was dinned into him NEVER to turn away. The result was that the merge often had an element of the HO about it.
3) Any fighter pilot unlucky enough to find himself directly in a HO merge against an enemy risked eventual destruction by turning away before reaching firing range; he'd expose himself to a snap shot without being able to reply, or lose energy and his opponent would then be in a better position to manoeuvre onto his six. And his blood would likely be up, of course, and he'd be damned if he was going to 'chicken out' before the other guy . . .
The HO will be a feature of of air combat all the time people continue to fight each other in the air. Nuff said.
:salute
None of that has a thing to do with this GAME.
If you fail to learn ACM then your destined to just have to HO.
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There were some situations in WW2 where HOs were approved of, or even ordered to occur:
1) The Luftwaffe fighters defending the Reich against the 8th USAAF soon found out that the return fire of massed rear-facing 0.50" Brownings usually shredded them something cruel during the approach, and that the bomber's armour was mainly disposed to protect the crew from the shot-from-behind. The 109s and 190s took to flying in large line-abreast formations and used a head-on approach to a) hit the least-armoured part of the bombers b) maximize the damage done by each hitting round by adding the closing speed to its velocity c) use the fear of collision to cause the bombers to break formation d) reduce the time they were exposed to the bombers' return fire. The tactic was attempted at least twice (and definitely succeeded on the first attack) against the bomber force that carried out Mission 250, the 8th USAAF's first mass attack on Berlin, 6th March 1944. Individual LW pilots had already worked out that this was the most survivable approach against a B-17 or B-24; which is why the later models of both were fitted with twin-gun turrets under and in the nose respectively to supplement the single-gun 'lash-up' mountings carried previously.
2) RAF fighter pilots were taught to turn towards any attacker enjoying an advantage, in order to make the bandit's firing solution more difficult and hopefully induce the attacker into entering a turn-fight. It was dinned into him NEVER to turn away. The result was that the merge often had an element of the HO about it.
3) Any fighter pilot unlucky enough to find himself directly in a HO merge against an enemy risked eventual destruction by turning away before reaching firing range; he'd expose himself to a snap shot without being able to reply, or lose energy and his opponent would then be in a better position to manoeuvre onto his six. And his blood would likely be up, of course, and he'd be damned if he was going to 'chicken out' before the other guy . . .
The HO will be a feature of of air combat all the time people continue to fight each other in the air. Nuff said.
:salute
I think I was a WW2 pilot in a past life! It was either that or a princess. Happy Halloween. :cheers:
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None of that has a thing to do with this GAME.
If you fail to learn ACM then your destined to just have to HO.
not necessarily.
you can pick. you can ram. you can lawndart. :neener: :neener:
or in my case, you can keep on dying to pretty much any other aircraft out there. :noid :rofl :bolt:
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And some participants prefer to try and reproduce at least some of the elements of WW2 flying, AH being a WW2 combat flight sim. You pays your money and makes your choice.
I don't think the information I've taken the trouble to supply is a waste of time to people who use AH as a combat flight simulation - but it obviously is to an arcade-gamer like you, who has nothing positive to add to what was an interesting thread.
Out.
LOL!!! Gamer. No I have always been a dog fighter, that is what I've always thought these games are about. Getting in close, so close you can see the parts coming off! In the early days... over 10 years ago.. I wasn't very good at it and calmed my frustration by jumping in a buff, or helping capture a base with a goon run.
Your information is useless because unlike war, we get new planes after every flight, and we never, ever die. Seeing as we don't have to worry about flying that wreck home, or maybe bailing and becoming a POW it changes how people fly. Crashing into another plane doesn't hurt, and may give you the kill if you get enough round into him first. This is what drives a big percentage of the "gamers" these days.
I'm more like you than you'd think. While I have no illusion that this game is anything like war, I do look to have the illusion of the fight, the struggle, the tactics, and the maneuvering that a real fight "might" have had, and HOing to negate all of those possibilities is just foolish and a waste of time.
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I think I was a WW2 pilot in a past life! It was either that or a princess. Happy Halloween. :cheers:
you could've been both.
do you wear panties on your head when you fly? do you grab a purse, and throw it at your wife when she tries to bother ya while you're flying/>? :bolt: :noid :rofl
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There were some situations in WW2 where HOs were approved of, or even ordered to occur:
1) The Luftwaffe fighters defending the Reich against the 8th USAAF soon found out that the return fire of massed rear-facing 0.50" Brownings usually shredded them something cruel during the approach, and that the bomber's armour was mainly disposed to protect the crew from the shot-from-behind. The 109s and 190s took to flying in large line-abreast formations and used a head-on approach to a) hit the least-armoured part of the bombers b) maximize the damage done by each hitting round by adding the closing speed to its velocity c) use the fear of collision to cause the bombers to break formation d) reduce the time they were exposed to the bombers' return fire. The tactic was attempted at least twice (and definitely succeeded on the first attack) against the bomber force that carried out Mission 250, the 8th USAAF's first mass attack on Berlin, 6th March 1944. Individual LW pilots had already worked out that this was the most survivable approach against a B-17 or B-24; which is why the later models of both were fitted with twin-gun turrets under and in the nose respectively to supplement the single-gun 'lash-up' mountings carried previously.we're not really talking bomer vs fighter....but since you choose to go there.
bombers had very little if any armor. they couldn't afford the weight. bombers flew in staggered box formations. in large formations, there was virtually no angle for a luftwaffe pilot to attack any single bomber without having at least a half dozen guns on him. none. zero. nada. zilch. zippo. this is even more true when you take into account the "G" models with the chin turrets. b24's were just as deadly.
this is why the smarter luftwaffe pilots simply came screaming through the formation, take whatever shots they could get, and get the hell outta dodge. if they damaged a bomber, and it started to fall out of formation, they they swarmed that one.
they also became very adept at spotting "new" b-17 pilots.....and they possibly newer crews, and/or distracted or out of position, making that particular bomber a slightly safer target. they spotted the new pilots by noting if a bomber was "jockeying" to maintain his position in the box. some newer pilots, even with all of the training they got back in the states, had never flown in tight formation before....and this made them somewhat nervous, plus the turbulence of the aircraft in front of them. if they dropped back far enough, they were swarmed. if they drifted off to the side, they got out of range of the others in the box.
2) RAF fighter pilots were taught to turn towards any attacker enjoying an advantage, in order to make the bandit's firing solution more difficult and hopefully induce the attacker into entering a turn-fight. It was dinned into him NEVER to turn away. The result was that the merge often had an element of the HO about it.
3) Any fighter pilot unlucky enough to find himself directly in a HO merge against an enemy risked eventual destruction by turning away before reaching firing range; he'd expose himself to a snap shot without being able to reply, or lose energy and his opponent would then be in a better position to manoeuvre onto his six. And his blood would likely be up, of course, and he'd be damned if he was going to 'chicken out' before the other guy . . .i believe this tactic was used heavily by the japanese against the AVG pilots. their aircraft were out dated compared to the p40's so the only chance they had, was either catch our guys by total surprise, or play chicken with them. the first to turn usually lost.
The HO will be a feature of of air combat all the time people continue to fight each other in the air. Nuff said.
:salute
i understand where you're coming from. i understand that a lot of players like to compare this to real life. i have in the past been very sarcastic about that too.....in this thread no less.
but here's another way to look at this whole argument.
when any combat pilot entered into combat for the first time back then, they had some training. it was normally the best available at the time, and under the current circumstances.
due to lack of experience, some of these brave souls were almost forced into situations to have to try to ho their enemy, just to even have the very slimmest chance of survival.
so here's the REALLY great part. WE, as a community get to learn something that all of our heroes may not have been able to learn. WE get to actually LEARN the acm that they never had time, or opportunity to learn, as they couldn't risk doing "hey, i should try XXX", and see if that gets me 'round for a good shot. why? because that very move may have killed him.
in this sim, we get to try all those things. we're given an opportunity that our heros never got. and we should take advantage of that, and learn. and of course have friggin fun without being malicious to others in here.
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LOL!!! Gamer. No I have always been a dog fighter, that is what I've always thought these games are about. Getting in close, so close you can see the parts coming off! In the early days... over 10 years ago.. I wasn't very good at it and calmed my frustration by jumping in a buff, or helping capture a base with a goon run.
Your information is useless because unlike war, we get new planes after every flight, and we never, ever die. Seeing as we don't have to worry about flying that wreck home, or maybe bailing and becoming a POW it changes how people fly. Crashing into another plane doesn't hurt, and may give you the kill if you get enough round into him first. This is what drives a big percentage of the "gamers" these days.
I'm more like you than you'd think. While I have no illusion that this game is anything like war, I do look to have the illusion of the fight, the struggle, the tactics, and the maneuvering that a real fight "might" have had, and HOing to negate all of those possibilities is just foolish and a waste of time.
i am without fail always close enough to see parts comin off.
mostly because they're mine. :noid :bolt:
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I Like Carly Simon. :D
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I Like Carly Simon. :D
<<<<<<<<<<<<<< is listening to the soft parade right now. :D :neener:
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Very good point Cap, I see people who fly temps and fly in ho and extend to come back ho and extend again. I guess if that what floats their boat ok but for me I am spending my $15 dollars a month to learn ACM and do as many 1on1's as possible and watch videos of the fights. Still getting my butt handed to me quite a bit but that's part of the process.
As far as on topic, It only takes 1 to ho. I've gotten pretty good at avoiding them and my favorite move if I have the E is to do a circle around their plane and they never land a shot.
i understand where you're coming from. i understand that a lot of players like to compare this to real life. i have in the past been very sarcastic about that too.....in this thread no less.
but here's another way to look at this whole argument.
when any combat pilot entered into combat for the first time back then, they had some training. it was normally the best available at the time, and under the current circumstances.
due to lack of experience, some of these brave souls were almost forced into situations to have to try to ho their enemy, just to even have the very slimmest chance of survival.
so here's the REALLY great part. WE, as a community get to learn something that all of our heroes may not have been able to learn. WE get to actually LEARN the acm that they never had time, or opportunity to learn, as they couldn't risk doing "hey, i should try XXX", and see if that gets me 'round for a good shot. why? because that very move may have killed him.
in this sim, we get to try all those things. we're given an opportunity that our heros never got. and we should take advantage of that, and learn. and of course have friggin fun without being malicious to others in here.
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so here's the REALLY great part. WE, as a community get to learn something that all of our heroes may not have been able to learn. WE get to actually LEARN the acm that they never had time, or opportunity to learn, as they couldn't risk doing "hey, i should try XXX", and see if that gets me 'round for a good shot. why? because that very move may have killed him.
in this sim, we get to try all those things. we're given an opportunity that our heros never got. and we should take advantage of that, and learn. and of course have friggin fun without being malicious to others in here.
Now lets look at mans history and see how well this will work.
1. Let see how many wars have there been.
2. Don't throw rocks at each other. An knot on your head the size of an egg.
3. Taking drugs are bad for you. Wondering where you are the morning after.
4. When your mother is whipping your butt you hear, "quit moving or it will hurt more".
5. Son don't walk on that chain link fence. Yes it does hurt when you straddle it.
6. Make sure and put on your shoes. Yes that scorpion sting hurts like hell.
Yes and I have passed on my wisdom to my child. Oh that had to hurt. Damn Chain linked fence.
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I realise this won't change a thing. It is human nature to stick with what was said even when proven wrong. Books have been written about it, some of the greatest minds have great quotes out there saying this. This post will mostly be a waste of my time, I realise that.
I play this game for fun, like most everyone else here. Yes, fun will be different for everyone. For me, I like a challenge, I like to learn, I like to improve. Nothing in this game is more frustrating than to fly 5-10 minutes, finding action, just to get HOd. It's not the K/D loss, it's the wasted time. It's like searching for a deliciouse brownie, taking a bite, and finding out it's a dog turd. It tastes bad (I assume) and I wasted my time doing it.
Imagine a game of chess, a great, strategic game to get good at using knowledge, adaptability, planning, many great skills. Say there was one move that the first player could do which immediately creates a win or draw. The second player can also make this move, but both can only do it on the initial move. Wouldn't it be super pathetic to take such a great challenge and throw it away with that move? The person doing it shows their weak, immature, primitive lack of charactor while losing a great chance to challenge themselves and get better at something.
There are many types, but a major division will be those who play to learn and improve, and those who play only to get kills, only to "win". To me, those guys ALWAYS lose, in multiple ways. Not just in the game, but also in life.
For those who only play to win, they could possibly have more fun joining the special olympics.
For those who like to aim straight at a merging opponent and shoot them down, maybe they could set up their joystick to work as a mouse, and go around their desktop double clicking icons.
To play just to put that circle on another object relatively stationary to your plane of motion is very pathetic.
A 2 year old can do these things. Go get a fisher price toy with red buttons and use your hand eye coordination to push it.
That's how much skill it takes to HO. I could teach my 5 year old neice to HO, and that is not an exageration.
It indicates weakness, and a need to feel good at something because in general they have few life skills and a low self esteem. They are unguided and probably aren't good at setting self improving goals in life.
What is a HO?
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The definition will differ with some, for me, this is a HO:
Flying at the frontal quadrant of another plane, and during or before the initial merge, taking the shot.
That includes flying head on but at say 100m offset, only to make high deflection immediately to shoot their side.
It includes shooting at someone who COULD (but doesn't necessarily) shoot at you but is choosing to take a non collision course to create a merge.
Mainly it is flying in with the intent to shoot someone flying in general toward the HOr(their velocity in relation to HOr current location), who knows you're there, and is setting up a merge, and yet the HOr intends to take that shot regardless of what the merger does.
The main thing, is you can HO while not being exactly crosshair to crosshair. You can HO someone who doesn't HO you.
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There are some situations where it's just gunna happen.
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Say you have an enemy 1.5 to 2 back, they are faster, you have to turn into them. Just about the time you're done turning around is around the time to decide to shoot. Normally I'd prefer not to shoot, but in this situation, whether I'm the chaser or the guy turning around, I'll tend to take the shot knowing the other guy will shoot 90% of the time. As far as I'm concerned once a guy is that close behind you, jockeying for position has already occured. Either way this is bound to happen.
It's a gangbang, of course the outnumbered guy will HO most often.
I also always HO bombers when I'm in a fighter.
A high con over my field has huge E advantage over me, I will often find myself in a situation where I have to turn up at him while he dives at me, and I will HO if I think they're gunna shoot.
I will HO a guy after something strategic. If a JUG is making a run on the CV I will HO so he doesn't take it down. I will HO someone trying to pork my base.
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But I won't HO a fighter on fighter dogfight situation. It's below people mature enough to learn self respect.
A HO isn't so much a head on, as a derogatory term for someone who takes the easy way out, and tries to avoid the fight, in the form of shooting on the intial merge from the frontal quardrant of the enemy.
I understand they need the "kill" to feel adequate, but it's dissapointing that I have to waste my time to find out the red icon was a juvenile that sucks at life.
It is classless to HO.
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here here !!! :aok
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I have more videos on my youtube channel, (Dont watch movie or movie0001, they're just tests) and plan to make more after all these tests are over. Most of them are proof of concept, so none are super clean perfect youtube vids.
This one shows pretty well how I fly. The video doesn't show it, but I had the opportunity to HO any of those initial 3 except the P47. I avoided the HOs and they still shot at me. It being a 3 on 1 soon to have 2 more cons aproach, I went ahead and HOd one of them back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdcGv8KnBhU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdcGv8KnBhU)
Sorry for no sound, it was my first video and the film is lost.
Normally I try to avoid head on shots even after initial merge, but sometimes it just happens.
In this video I could tell what noobs they were for HOn me so I changed my tactics and sure enough I broke in a way that made the Spit commit to a lame move and he augered lol.
My point is, this entire adrenaline pumping night maker could have never happened if one of those HOtards pinged my pilot or took an elevator and killed my engine etc. Tell me putting a dot on a near relative stationary target is more fun than what I got to do here.
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pretty dam nicely written dude. :aok
onlything i find a flaw with........i avoid ho'ing buffs too..it makes me too easy to hit. i prefer slashing attacks, come from their 10-2 hi...very hi angle, or if i suspect they're close to their drop point, i'll climb right up their tailpipes.
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I bet this conversation would not go near as far if it was held by the fighter pilots of WWII. If they lived it was a viable option. If they are dead it just does not matter does it. This thread is one of those nightmares that just will not go away.
Then why did you dig it up again? :huh
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Nicely Written and spot on! :aok
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But I won't HO a fighter on fighter dogfight situation. It's below people mature enough to learn self respect.
A HO isn't so much a head on, as a derogatory term for someone who takes the easy way out, and tries to avoid the fight, in the form of shooting on the intial merge from the frontal quardrant of the enemy.
I understand they need the "kill" to feel adequate, but it's dissapointing that I have to waste my time to find out the red icon was a juvenile that sucks at life.
It is classless to HO.