Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ink on December 23, 2009, 02:06:19 PM
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:rofl
well this is for anyone who says "nice pick" when you are alone :rolleyes: or with a bunch of friendlies.
A "pick" is only a "pick" when the one being "picked" is actually on someones 6/or engaged with someone.
in other words if you are "picked" and you were not in a fight, you were not "picked".
INK
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Would it fall under the definition of vulch.
Can someone define vulch.
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^ ditto^ (ON WHAT INK SAID) :aok
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Would it fall under the definition of vulch.
Can someone define vulch.
Killing someone when their wheels are on the ground.
Soon as they come up fair game IMO....
Oh wait NVM. They're fair game as soon as they spawn :D
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Killing someone when their wheels are on the ground.
beat me to it,
to even further the definition, -taking off or landing, wheels can be off the ground, if you just lifted off the tarmac, and are still slow, I would say that qualifies as a "vulch"
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BnZ is when someone kills you when they have altitude and make a pass on you,
a BnZ can be a pick, and a pick and be a BnZ
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BnZ is when someone kills you when they have altitude and make a pass on you,
a BnZ can be a pick, and a pick and be a BnZ
wrong :D
BnZ is a form of ACM, "pick" is not ACM, you can be TnBing and "pick" someone, you don't have to be BnZing to "Pick" someone.
BnZ= Boom and Zoom, IE; stay fast, line up shot,take your shot, and stay fast, zoom climb up. Hartmann was a Master of this.
TnB= Turn and Burn, IE; turn fight(no not just flat turns) but it equates to turning to fight. and burning E.
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You're tooling around at 2k on auto climb, and some guy at 550mph comes in from 15k and nails you even though you attempt to evade.
It's a pick.
It's a (often) skill-less manuver designed to reward via instant gratification with no danger, threat, or effort towards the picker's part.
So you're wrong. There can be "picking" when only 2 are present, and NO, a pick isn't "only" when the picked pilot was on somebody else's 6 oclock.
However, we are in agreement that too many people throw the term out, like the newbies saying "Nice HO" to a 3 oclock glancing shot, etc.
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Wait so you see the guy, attempt to evade, fail ,and that's a pick???
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You're tooling around at 2k on auto climb, and some guy at 550mph comes in from 15k and nails you even though you attempt to evade.
It's a pick.
It's a (often) skill-less manuver designed to reward via instant gratification with no danger, threat, or effort towards the picker's part.
So you're wrong. There can be "picking" when only 2 are present, and NO, a pick isn't "only" when the picked pilot was on somebody else's 6 oclock.
However, we are in agreement that too many people throw the term out, like the newbies saying "Nice HO" to a 3 oclock glancing shot, etc.
sorry Krusty that is not a "pick" thats just bad SA, YOU are the one who is wrong.
A "pick" is just as the word describes, Picking someone of off someones 6, or while engaged. now matter how you try to spin it.
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You're tooling around at 2k on auto climb, and some guy at 550mph comes in from 15k and nails you even though you attempt to evade.
It's a pick.
No it isn't.
He is bouncing you.
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INK is spot on in his definition of a pick.
ack-ack
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No it isn't.
He is bouncing you.
I could not think of the "word" that describes that :D thanx for the "back of head slap"
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So you're wrong. There can be "picking" when only 2 are present, and NO, a pick isn't "only" when the picked pilot was on somebody else's 6 oclock.
You're redefining "pick." The accepted use of the word requires a minimum of 3 pilots.
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It's a bounce.
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You're redefining "pick." The accepted use of the word requires a minimum of 3 pilots.
No, to pick is to take the easy kill with the least effort/risk to you. To cherry-pick (choose the choicest, closest, nicest cherry) is where the term comes from.
Applying it to AH, a number of folks pretend it has a narrow application. These same folks also tend to whine and complain that they ignore other planes in multi-plane engagements, pushing a 1v1 well after it's turned into something else. The same folks cry when they get "picked" (their use of the word) or when somebody else kills "their" target. They have tried to change the meaning of it.
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No, to pick is to take the easy kill with the least effort/risk to you. To cherry-pick (choose the choicest, closest, nicest cherry) is where the term comes from.
Applying it to AH, a number of folks pretend it has a narrow application. These same folks also tend to whine and complain that they ignore other planes in multi-plane engagements, pushing a 1v1 well after it's turned into something else. The same folks cry when they get "picked" (their use of the word) or when somebody else kills "their" target. They have tried to change the meaning of it.
I see someones head is like brick :D
LOL I wonder if you are referring about me when you say "crying" because There is not one person on these boards or in game that will ever say that I cried because I was killed, in any form. because I NEVER have.
I still know what the word "pick" means though, IE: to kill someone engaged, usually off of a friendlies 6, a "cherry pick" is the same exact thing except the "cherry" is a new guy/noob so that makes it a "cherry pick"
some day grasshopper you will snatch the pebble from my hand...
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It's a bounce.
If you do it twice is it a "dribble" ?
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To "pick" means to kill a plane already engaged with a friendly. It is derived from "cherrypick" as in "to select what one considers to be best or most desirable, profitable, etc. from a number of options."
One can see how the derogatory term "picker" came about in Aces High, as in "a skill-less tard who flies in furballs and kills players who are already fighting someone else," (which ignores the fact that it takes considerable skill, SA, and good gunnery.) So a players good score or rank or whatever is explained away by saying "he's just a picker."
When you're dove on and killed by a higher con, regardless of whether you see him or not, it's a bounce, not a pick. Perhaps it's the association of the word "cherry-pick" and being up on a ladder (or in an actual cherry-picker attached to a vehicle) that makes players mistakenly associate being killed by a higher enemy with the term "pick."
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No, to pick is to take the easy kill with the least effort/risk to you. To cherry-pick (choose the choicest, closest, nicest cherry) is where the term comes from.
Pick is just the lazy man's way of saying Cherry Pick, just like ganged is short for gangbanged.
ack-ack
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1. Pick v. ( p i k ) killing Draggon in any form.
y'all got this wrong.
pffft
:rofl :D
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Exactly Ack-ack. That's how I described it.
Ink needs to deflate his ego. I was not talking about him. He is wrong, though, in saying "usually from 6 oclock" -- that's a whiner's addition to what a cherry pick is, because they lost their kill, or ignored a bad situation to get the kill then whined about being killed by another.
Shiv: A bounce can be a type of pick. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot that can be called a pick. But narrowing it to only the furballer mentality "you stopped my 1v1!!" is for crybabies.
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What I find humorous is when someone sees a flight of 2, they jump in to a fight and then they get shackeled, pressed, and killed then accuse the #2 guy of Picking. Sorry it is called wingman tactics, not picking. If you jump a squad in the air expect it.
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(http://www.hollow-hill.com/sabina/images/waaambulance.jpg)
Someone call for the WAAAmbulance?
All I'm reading seeing here is:
"Waaahh, waaahh, it's your fault _I_ put my plane and myself in a bad situation to be in, waaahh, waaahh".
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sorry Krusty that is not a "pick" thats just bad SA, YOU are the one who is wrong.
A "pick" is just as the word describes, Picking someone of off someones 6, or while engaged. now matter how you try to spin it.
I strongly concur
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Exactly Ack-ack. That's how I described it.
Ink needs to deflate his ego. I was not talking about him. He is wrong, though, in saying "usually from 6 oclock" -- that's a whiner's addition to what a cherry pick is, because they lost their kill, or ignored a bad situation to get the kill then whined about being killed by another.
Shiv: A bounce can be a type of pick. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot that can be called a pick. But narrowing it to only the furballer mentality "you stopped my 1v1!!" is for crybabies.
LOL, the community defines the words they use to describe things. Yall are just arguing over semantics even though I agree with ink. If you get 'picked' by a plane screaming in when you don't see him that's incredibly poor SA, quit eating your chicken breast on auto takeoff assuming it is safe. If you get picked while fighting someone else in a slow rolling scissor type engagement, it is more of insult to injury because it is taking all your effort not to lose the advantage to the plane you are fighting. Sometimes you see the guy but you just hope he misses because you feel like you are going to have a gun solution on the other bogey very shortly.
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Shiv: A bounce can be a type of pick. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot that can be called a pick. But narrowing it to only the furballer mentality "you stopped my 1v1!!" is for crybabies.
Who's crying? I just want to narrow it to what it actually means, and not what "bounce" means. :)
And it's not at all restricted to a 3rd man jumping into a 1v1. It's more applicable to a furball, with the picker staying high and waiting for an enemy to lock on to a friendly before attacking.
And pick or bounce, it's what Grizz said, it's your own fault you got killed, not the picker's.
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so "pick or picking" is actually a Tactic used rather than anything else........ correct? :devil
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It's not semantics. If you are not engaged and get shot down, this is not a pick. It's just poor SA... or chicken breast fixation? :D
When you are cruising around with a bunch of friendlies, oblivious to your surroundings and you get shot down, it's not a pick.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/nopick1.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/AZC4guy/nopick3.jpg)
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Exactly Ack-ack. That's how I described it.
Ink needs to deflate his ego. I was not talking about him. He is wrong, though, in saying "usually from 6 oclock" -- that's a whiner's addition to what a cherry pick is, because they lost their kill, or ignored a bad situation to get the kill then whined about being killed by another.
Shiv: A bounce can be a type of pick. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot that can be called a pick. But narrowing it to only the furballer mentality "you stopped my 1v1!!" is for crybabies.
You're still incorrect in what a cherry pick is. It's been since the days of AW that cherry pick has been defined as one that comes in and 'cherry picks' a player off someone elses' six. Just as vulch has always been used to define shooting someone down as they are either in the process of taking off or landing.
"Pick" is just a more commonly used form of Cherry pick.
ack-ack
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You're still the one in someone elses' six.
ack-ack
The Force is strong with this one
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It's not semantics. If you are not engaged and get shot down, this is not a pick. It's just poor SA... or chicken breast fixation? :D
I say it is semantics because the definition of a 'pick' is what the community defines it as. If some in the community have a different definition then who's to say their definition isn't valid for them to use the word to their liking? But yeah like you said, it's much worse SA getting picked when you aren't engaged than getting picked when you are.
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I say it is semantics because the definition of a 'pick' is what the community defines it as. If some in the community have a different definition then who's to say their definition isn't valid for them to use the word to their liking? But yeah like you said, it's much worse SA getting picked when you aren't engaged than getting picked when you are.
I know bro, I was agreeing with you. Chicken breast fixated.. .heheheh
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I know bro, I was agreeing with you. Chicken breast fixated.. .heheheh
Roger, break break, lets go own a horde.
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Exactly Ack-ack. That's how I described it.
Ink needs to deflate his ego...
:rofl :rofl
you call it "ego" I call it "skill" :lol semantics; and please do tell were my "ego" was involved?
I would kick your buttocks off 1vs1, I am the best stick here! I am the best there is at targeting, ect ect... those are "ego's" cant recall ever saying anything like that.
and no that's not how you were "describing it"
tomato-tomato is semantics trying to say one "thing" is another is not semantics, just cuz some think that getting killed from some guy who has ALT is a "pick" does not make it so.
I am duly informed now On the "cherry pick" aspect of the whole thing now thanx :aok I assumed it meant "new" guy, as in a "cherry" recruit/new guy in the field.
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Picking is an abbreviation of Cherry Picking. It refers to zooming in and killing an enemy contact already engaged in a fight.
is what the community defines it as
That's like saying the "community" is free to redefine the measuring system, to make a 4 inch knob 8 inches.
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Picking is an abbreviation of Cherry Picking. It refers to zooming in and killing an enemy contact already engaged in a fight.
That's like saying the "community" is free to redefine the measuring system, to make a 4 inch knob 8 inches.
Or maybe Picking has an entirely different meaning within the confines of Aces High 2? My definition is the same as yours, but I could care less if someone says I picked them when they were afk on climbout. It changes nothing. They're still dead as a result of their bad/indifferent SA.
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i always thought a pick was when someone came in and cleared my 12? or one of your countrymen came in and cleared your 12?
other than that, i didn't think picks existed......wellll........ex cept for nose picking. :noid :rofl :neener:
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I've always heard it referred to as shooting someone who's already busy/engaged with someone else.
"Cherry Picking" to me means "picking one individual out of the bunch, or the group". What makes him so appealing, that you'd select him? He's distracted...
Somewhere, there used to be a quasi-"official" list of AH terminology, and this was one of the terms defined. I'm having difficulty finding it now.
Aha! Turns out it's in the AHwiki- http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Common_terms
pick - or cherry pick: Attacking an enemy already engaged with another plane
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You're tooling around at 2k on auto climb, and some guy at 550mph comes in from 15k and nails you even though you attempt to evade.
It's a pick.
It's a (often) skill-less manuver designed to reward via instant gratification with no danger, threat, or effort towards the picker's part.
So you're wrong. There can be "picking" when only 2 are present, and NO, a pick isn't "only" when the picked pilot was on somebody else's 6 oclock.
However, we are in agreement that too many people throw the term out, like the newbies saying "Nice HO" to a 3 oclock glancing shot, etc.
no it isn't.
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What I find humorous is when someone sees a flight of 2, they jump in to a fight and then they get shackeled, pressed, and killed then accuse the #2 guy of Picking. Sorry it is called wingman tactics, not picking. If you jump a squad in the air expect it.
actually, when i've been in fun fights, if i ask someone to stay out, and they come in anyway, i take the first chance i get to egress....and let em die at the hands of the dude i was fighting. :devil
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No, to pick is to take the easy kill with the least effort/risk to you. To cherry-pick (choose the choicest, closest, nicest cherry) is where the term comes from.
Applying it to AH, a number of folks pretend it has a narrow application. These same folks also tend to whine and complain that they ignore other planes in multi-plane engagements, pushing a 1v1 well after it's turned into something else. The same folks cry when they get "picked" (their use of the word) or when somebody else kills "their" target. They have tried to change the meaning of it.
agreed :aok
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:D :airplane:
A vulch is someone blazing in to the field and shooting/killing me while I am either taking off or attempting to land my kills. However, when I do it, it is considered intense aerial combat followed by a warm, satisfying victory. :neener:
A pick is defined as someone buzzing in from some ridiculous alt to shoot me while I am actively engaged with other 'red' guy. However, when I do it, it is considered intense aerial combat resulting in a well earned victory and a bunch of wtfg's on Country Chat! :banana:
:rofl
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Pick, bounce, butt-reamin, what have you, Im with Krusty on this. Whether the guy was looking around or checking that his sauce didnt burn on the stove, that kill you just got could have been alot more fun than pop-boom. People who make a living at this type of play will never understand what I get from this game.
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So let me get this straight...to pick means that green guy is being pursued by red guy, second green guy swoops in and kills red guy.
Hmmm...sounds like the term "ganging" would actually cover this situation, without any additional terms. Actually, this sounds like very *light* ganging by MA standards, 17-1 odds being more typical.
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What you guys ALL have to remember, is that a "cherry pick" on one side of the engagement, is just "good wingman tactics" or "drag and bag" on the other side.
It is all relative to which side of the fight your on.
Not necessarily fun for the guy who gets picked.
But if he was being worked by a wingpair, or getting dragged so someone else could bag him its his own poor SA that caused it.
Remember, if you just died, you made a mistake someplace!
Don't blame it on the other guy, figure out where you could have done it better.
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Remember, if you just died, you made a mistake someplace!
Yep, it is just one of several derogatory terms invented by players as way to blame other people for their own mistakes, and as such has no place or value in the vocabulary of air combat.
Badboy
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some peeps are just whiney little redheaded frecklers.
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I'll wait to see this new term be introduced on ch 200." I bounced you fool." Yes I knew the true term of pick. Just didn't have the AH grammar of climbing out of my field and bang. Bogey 6 O' clock high. Still seems desperate for a kill IMO. :D
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I agree with Krusty and Lynx's definition, it's an abbreviation of 'cherry-picking'.
:cool:
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The "pick" IMHO is taking a pilot unaware of your presence period. The problem with terms is the they are ALWAYS subject to a person opinion and pov (picker or pickee). It really makes no difference WHAT Ink thinks or I think or anyone else for that matter and yelling about being picked will NEVER go away until 200 goes away (which is what I think should happen).
Merry Christmas all :angel:
BigJim
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I agree with Krusty and Lynx's definition, it's an abbreviation of 'cherry-picking'.
:cool:
Krusty and lynx have contradicting opinions.
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So let me get this straight...to pick means that green guy is being pursued by red guy, second green guy swoops in and kills red guy.
Hmmm...sounds like the term "ganging" would actually cover this situation, without any additional terms. Actually, this sounds like very *light* ganging by MA standards, 17-1 odds being more typical.
Its also a noobish attempt to call foul when wingmen are working together. Getting 'picked' and then calling foul (using 'picked' as an excuse) is just admitting to poor SA or poor choice (in the case of getting into a slow turn fight).
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Lol, wingman tactics.. i bet less than 10% of picks are 'wingman tactics'
Heck when I gotta good fight going and some 'non-wingman' dweeb comes in from out of vis range to pick the red guy, sometime I have to yell at my new 'non-desired wingman' to stay out. And thats only works 50% of the time.
So an example of a pick is when you're about to get killed by a guy you just had a decent fight with and some additional red guy comes down and blasts you due to your bad SA. Good stuff.
What I should have done was.. seen the other guy coming from 6.0k out, broke off from my engagement and lit the burners and ran back to my ack or to my buddies. Thats good SA & gameplay there, not to mention overall weenieness
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sometime I have to yell at my new 'non-desired wingman' to stay out. And thats only works 50% of the time.
LOL. If someone actually yelled at me to stay out, I'd kill the guy he was on in a second.
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To me a picker is anyone who enters an ongoing fight to the advantaged side. If you come upon a country mate who is out #d, by all means get stuck in. If you come upon a 1v1 or 2v1 etc where your side has the #s then stay out. Even if the would be picker doesn't get the kill, he is still a piktard having attempted such a pick. The mere act of attempting the pick has labeled you true as a "PIKTARD". Now if your country mate loses and you just so happened to time your kill on the winner seconds later, then I say WTG at least you gave them the opportunity to finish no matter the outcome. So to be clear I think a picker is anyone who tries to alter a fight or steal a kill. So those of you who make "DRY" B&Z runs in an ongoing fight are absolutely--->PIKTARDS :aok :cheers:
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well this is for anyone who says "nice pick" when you are alone rolleyes or with a bunch of friendlies.
A "pick" is only a "pick" when the one being "picked" is actually on someones 6/or engaged with someone.
in other words if you are "picked" and you were not in a fight, you were not "picked".
:aok Never thought about it that way. I like that.
But now when someone says 'Nice pick' to me, I can correct them if they are wrong, which they probably will not be. :D
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LOL. If someone actually yelled at me to stay out, I'd kill the guy he was on in a second.
Instead of yelling and someone asks you to stay out of a good 1v1, you would still jump in?
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I think thats Steves way of calling BS which I second.
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(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj310/dmanuhone/CRW_2648Gorillapickinghisnose.jpg)
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The "pick" IMHO is taking a pilot unaware of your presence period.
What???
So, how do you make sure he knows you're there? How do you know when he's detected your presence and he's "ready"? What if he knows you're there, but he's not ready? Is it a pick then?
If you shoot someone who isn't aware of your presence, shame on him, not you!
By your definition, the vast majority of kills of new players are "picks". Trust me, most of them aren't aware you're there. If they know you're nearby, they probably don't know exactly where you are. Does this mean "vets" kills on new players are picks, more than a difference in skill level?
If you lose track of your opponent in a fight (so are unaware of his location), is his kill on you a pick?
I think the definition of "pick" is being wrongly broadened, so those who aren't happy with the way they died think they have a legitimate excuse...
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a bounce......albiet with poor gunnery, but in my opinion, an otherwise perfect bounce.
http://www.mediafire.com/?myvi40nkzgm
a pick. i was losing this fight badly, but i was friggin havin fun, till butwipe came in. you might notice he bypassed a non-engaged con too.....
http://www.mediafire.com/?lydxhtynz3o
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The "pick" IMHO is taking a pilot unaware of your presence period.
No that kind of kill is called awesome especially if a keyboard message pops up immediately on 200 like:
"I love it when tttttttttttttttttttttt"
:D
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actually, when i've been in fun fights, if i ask someone to stay out, and they come in anyway, i take the first chance i get to egress....and let em die at the hands of the dude i was fighting. :devil
thats exactly what I do, hell even if I cant get it out "no I dont want help" and a friendly comes in, I break off and let the red guy deal with the "picker", what sux is there are very few that actually play this way, I know I am not the only one, but I do wish more had this philosophy.
obviously in a big furball this is not the case.
I also wanna say, I dont think "Picking" is "bad", but I know if that is all someone does, they will be in dire straits if they get caught in a 1vs1.
INK
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thats exactly what I do, hell even if I cant get it out "no I dont want help" and a friendly comes in, I break off and let the red guy deal with the "picker", what sux is there are very few that actually play this way, I know I am not the only one, but I do wish more had this philosophy.
obviously in a big furball this is not the case.
I also wanna say, I dont think "Picking" is "bad", but I know if that is all someone does, they will be in dire straits if they get caught in a 1vs1.
INK
yea...i agree...it's not something that we can really call bad....even if we don't like it. it's just like anything else in here....we've all done it in the past, and will possibly do it again in the future..........
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I have always be leaved that my best kills, was the ones that the target never seen me coming.... :neener:
And if someone jumps in and helps me with the kill, I give them <S> & thank them.... :salute
Air combat isn't an individual sport.... it is a team sport... In my 16 years of playing online flight sims I have never cared if I was good at 1 vs. 1's. :O
Cavalry
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Air combat isn't an individual sport
Its a good thing this is a game and not air combat then isnt it.
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Its a good thing this is a game and not air combat then isnt it.
this is only a game????????
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Its a good thing this is a game and not air combat then isnt it.
It is what you make it. Lots of people put themselves into the mindset of someone fighting the war and sometimes lone-wolfing it means taking what you get and trying to live. Associating your rules and how you conduct your game doesnt mean everyone is going to do the same thing. In fact when they dont you cant even complain about it you should expect it instead.
Merry Christmas! :aok
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My rules? I didn't say anything about rules or how people should or shouldn't play this game. I only said this is a game not air combat. That's a fact, and if you really think you're some hot shot pilot in WWII then I suggest going to see a shrink.
Happy Hanukkah! :aok
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Amen to what GhostH said.
Killing an unengaged enemy aircraft with an altitude advantage is a bounce not a pick. The aggressor cannot possibly know the state of awareness of the enemy in that situation. If the enemy is not aware, it's a quick death, if he is, he can maneuver to spoil the gun solution and the attacker either egresses or a fight ensues albeit at an initial energy disadvantage for the defender.
Killing an enemy who is obviously preoccupied is a cherry-pick. It is easily discernable to the attacker that the defender is likely unaware of his presence or at the very least is not in a good position to do a lot about it.
As GhostH mentioned, "cherry-picking" is just another way of saying cooperative tactics whether on purpose or by accidents of circumstances and opportunity. The whole point of flying in loose-coordination with friendlies is that you can mutually support each other. I have never seen a complex engagement in AH where 10 vs 10'ish planes square off in exactly 10 separate 1 vs 1 engagements. It just doesn't happen, the team that coordinates and mutually supports each other the best will win that fight in what amounts to predominately various forms of "cherry-picking".
Of course this is just a game, but in real life during WWII 90% of aircraft shot down by other aircraft were not even aware they were under attack. So, we can deduce that only 10% of air to air shootdowns were NOT the result of a bounce or a pick...Because AH is a game and people tend to follow-thru in an overly aggressive manner on attacks (because we don't really die) the true figure would be about 50/50 range in the game...Just food for thought...
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SIG:
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Science..."
I was wondering when this Zazen was going to return :aok :D
bout time.....enjoy your collegiate philosophy type postings.....
Happy Holidays Zaz
and btw........ pick / picking is still just a tactic people use, correct?
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I was wondering when this Zazen was going to return :aok :D
bout time.....enjoy your collegiate philosophy type postings.....
Happy Holidays Zaz
and btw........ pick / picking is still just a tactic people use, correct?
In complex engagements there are free-fighters and engaged fighters. The tactical responsibility of the free fighter is to cover the 6 of the engaged fighters. That involves a lot of "cherry picking" especially when your engaged fighter is clearly losing and needs a bandit shot off his 6. Cherry picking is not a derogatory term, it is merely the duty of anyone considered a "free-fighter" (not engaged). Of course, it is also the duty of the "free-fighter", in his responsibility to secure the safety of the engaged fighter, to interdict and engage other "free-fighters", as it is reasonable to do so, in order to prevent them from assisting their engaged fighter (via cherrypicking). Cherry-picking is more than just a facet of multi-plane engagment tactics , it is the cornerstone of it.
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In complex engagements there are free-fighters and engaged fighters. The tactical responsibility of the free fighter is to cover the 6 of the engaged fighters. That involves a lot of "cherry picking" especially when your engaged fighter is clearly losing and needs a bandit shot off his 6. Cherry picking is not a derogatory term, it is merely the duty of anyone considered a "free-fighter" (not engaged). Of course, it is also the duty of the "free-fighter", in his responsibility to secure the safety of the engaged fighter, to interdict and engage other "free-fighters", as it is reasonable to do so, in order to prevent them from assisting their engaged fighter (via cherrypicking). Cherry-picking is more than just a facet of multi-plane engagment tactics , it is the cornerstone of it.
yes, but there's also situations such as the film i posted. the dude flew right past another red guy i htink to come pick shuffler off of me. why? because he was low n slow, where as the other plane had a chance.
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My rules? I didn't say anything about rules or how people should or shouldn't play this game. I only said this is a game not air combat. That's a fact, and if you really think you're some hot shot pilot in WWII then I suggest going to see a shrink.
You dont have to mention specific rules when you indicate agreement of an ideal through implication. If someone wants to 'role play' and pretend for the sake of play that they are reenacting a WWII pilots action then no they dont need a shrink and it was wrong for you to imply that.
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. Double post bug returns.
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I think you need to practice what you preach there.
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I think you need to practice what you preach there.
I am practicing what I preach by correcting you. :D
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Thanks but I don't need corrected seeing I was correct in the first place. This IS a game not air combat, and if you truly think your a WWII fighter pilot when playing this GAME then you really do need physiological help.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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yes, but there's also situations such as the film i posted. the dude flew right past another red guy i htink to come pick shuffler off of me. why? because he was low n slow, where as the other plane had a chance.
Yea, that and picking cons where it is clear the friendly is winning, not the enemy, are the two biggest reasons cherrypicking gets an unfair bad rap in AH. The only situations I would choose to pick a con already engaged over another free fighter is if I thought it was going to save your life or if evening the odds as quickly as possible was more important given the tactical situation than immediately engaging a co-ALt/E fighter in a protracted fight. Also, keep in mind no ones SA is 100% perfect all the time. Re-acting instantly to imperfect and partial information is what fighter combat is all about. Sometimes the wrong choice is made for the right reasons in this way.
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99% of the players in the game will pick without thinking twice.
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That is however a matter of ethics and personal choice Rich.
Your not going to change that.
So, once you accept that you can and will be picked the burden shifts to you to prevent it.
Hone your SA, don't target fixate, scan the sky's around and behind you especially when chasing someone.
(think 3 seconds to line up and shoot, 1 second scan, rinse and repeat)
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Yes I did mean psychological. Hey even us non WWII pilots make mistakes. But you are wrong again. (Not like its anything new.) Not all people that play sims need therapy. Only the ones who pretend to be someone they're not like you. I myself love the history of air combat, and have since I was a small child. Something I have never done is pretend to be an actual WWII pilot when playing this game. It may just be my 'wrong' self but I find that patechic. I mean does your like suck that bad that you have to pretend you are someone your not? Maybe if you're lucky santa will bring you a clue. Until then have fun Chuck. :rolleyes:
Again another assumption on your part (nothing new for you Im sure). I know people that do role play in AHII (Fester) and I know there are people that go for streaks (I would say they are the same thing) but for you to say that when they put themselves into the mindset of a WWII pilot that they are 'pretending to be someone they are not' is rather foolish on your part (some might say pathetic). Then you went and inferred that practice upon me which is also wrong. Yes... its you that needs a clue on life.
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lol psst... its psychological not physiological... :neener: :rofl :rofl this thread will be a dandy :banana:
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Yea, that and picking cons where it is clear the friendly is winning, not the enemy, are the two biggest reasons cherrypicking gets an unfair bad rap in AH.
Hahaha! I had a "run-in" with one of those just the other night. A Yak "bounced" me, but quickly found himself in front of me. Pressuring him to slow down enough for me to kill him, we descended from about 8K through 5K, where a lower "friendly" also latched onto the Yak and was trying to shoot him. The fight dropped down to the deck.
Normally, I just break off and leave the fight at that point. I don't have any interest in 2v1 fights. I'll let the red guy kill the green and build up some speed and SA, and then I'll jump back in. However, in this case I was a bit irked that this guy wanted to "steal" what I was working so hard for... So, I passed him, and as he shot I pulled up in front of his guns, hoping he'd kill-shoot himself. No luck... Drats! Anyhow, I shoot the Yak, and the friendly says "MtnMan! I had that guy! Why'd you wreck our fight?"
Teamwork is awesome!
<Sigh>...
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Hahaha! I had a "run-in" with one of those just the other night. A Yak "bounced" me, but quickly found himself in front of me. Pressuring him to slow down enough for me to kill him, we descended from about 8K through 5K, where a lower "friendly" also latched onto the Yak and was trying to shoot him. The fight dropped down to the deck.
Normally, I just break off and leave the fight at that point. I don't have any interest in 2v1 fights. I'll let the red guy kill the green and build up some speed and SA, and then I'll jump back in. However, in this case I was a bit irked that this guy wanted to "steal" what I was working so hard for... So, I passed him, and as he shot I pulled up in front of his guns, hoping he'd kill-shoot himself. No luck... Drats! Anyhow, I shoot the Yak, and the friendly says "MtnMan! I had that guy! Why'd you wreck our fight?"
Teamwork is awesome!
<Sigh>...
You selfish bastige :D
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Hahaha! I had a "run-in" with one of those just the other night. A Yak "bounced" me, but quickly found himself in front of me. Pressuring him to slow down enough for me to kill him, we descended from about 8K through 5K, where a lower "friendly" also latched onto the Yak and was trying to shoot him. The fight dropped down to the deck.
Normally, I just break off and leave the fight at that point. I don't have any interest in 2v1 fights. I'll let the red guy kill the green and build up some speed and SA, and then I'll jump back in. However, in this case I was a bit irked that this guy wanted to "steal" what I was working so hard for... So, I passed him, and as he shot I pulled up in front of his guns, hoping he'd kill-shoot himself. No luck... Drats! Anyhow, I shoot the Yak, and the friendly says "MtnMan! I had that guy! Why'd you wreck our fight?"
Teamwork is awesome!
<Sigh>...
times like that is when i wish we could shoot friendlies.
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Hahaha! I had a "run-in" with one of those just the other night. A Yak "bounced" me, but quickly found himself in front of me. Pressuring him to slow down enough for me to kill him, we descended from about 8K through 5K, where a lower "friendly" also latched onto the Yak and was trying to shoot him. The fight dropped down to the deck.
Normally, I just break off and leave the fight at that point. I don't have any interest in 2v1 fights. I'll let the red guy kill the green and build up some speed and SA, and then I'll jump back in. However, in this case I was a bit irked that this guy wanted to "steal" what I was working so hard for... So, I passed him, and as he shot I pulled up in front of his guns, hoping he'd kill-shoot himself. No luck... Drats! Anyhow, I shoot the Yak, and the friendly says "MtnMan! I had that guy! Why'd you wreck our fight?"
Teamwork is awesome!
<Sigh>...
The other day I was fighting by myself in a G14 around 5k on the precipice of getting ganged. I try to escape with an la7, p51b, and something else ~1k on my tail. An F4u4 comes screaming in from the clouds on my long 6. He eventually gets close before I attempt a lazy scissor to try to get him to overshoot but not slow enough for the other 3 to catch me. He manages to spray all over the place before ramming me on his end and taking his wing off. He then started crying on 200 about how I rammed him and to get some skill. :lol
Rest assured, the other 3 finished the job he couldn't accomplish shortly after.
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The "pick" IMHO is taking a pilot unaware of your presence period.
You may personally consider it to be a pick but by definition it isn't one. What you're describing would be known as a 'Bounced'. When you attack another player that isn't aware of your presence, you've 'bounced' him. It's really not a subjective thing, it's an already established term to explain the situation you described.
The problem with terms is the they are ALWAYS subject to a person opinion and pov (picker or pickee).
When the term isn't clearly defined, then there will always be different perspectives and opinions on the meaning. However, with terms like "Cherry Pick", "Vulch", "Bounce", the terms are already clearly defined and their definitions have been widely accepted for decades, there is no subjective meanings to these terms. A "Cherry Pick (or just plain "Pick") is the act of engaging an enemy that is already enaged with another bandit. A "Vulch" is the act of engaging an enemy as they are in the process of either taking off or landing. A "Bounce" is the act of engaging an enemy that is unaware of your presence.
ack-ack
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LOL. If someone actually yelled at me to stay out, I'd kill the guy he was on in a second.
Missed my point.. assuming I've already asked nicely.. Don't actually 'yell', just exaggerating for emphasis. I would do the same if somebody 'yelled' at me.
Most guys see red guys and go all out to kill them, without really thinking about etiquette and if the fight is fair. Until you can kill a few in 1v1 w/ no advantage, the norm is to kill no matter what since that is the only way you can get a kill. Picking, besides vulching is where the easiest kills lay, so it will always be done except in organized 1v1 fights.
Merry Christmas!
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You may personally consider it to be a pick but by definition it isn't one. What you're describing would be known as a 'Bounced'. When you attack another player that isn't aware of your presence, you've 'bounced' him. It's really not a subjective thing, it's an already established term to explain the situation you described.
When the term isn't clearly defined, then there will always be different perspectives and opinions on the meaning. However, with terms like "Cherry Pick", "Vulch", "Bounce", the terms are already clearly defined and their definitions have been widely accepted for decades, there is no subjective meanings to these terms. A "Cherry Pick (or just plain "Pick") is the act of engaging an enemy that is already enaged with another bandit. A "Vulch" is the act of engaging an enemy as they are in the process of either taking off or landing. A "Bounce" is the act of engaging an enemy that is unaware of your presence.
ack-ack
a couple additions if i may?
vulching,,,,is during the landing or take off process. it should be noted, that part of the landing process is final approach.
i've heard some say things like "you weren't even at the runway" after vulching someone. well......they were on final, low n slow, probably gear and flaps out. it's still a vulch.
same on take off.........if you're not allowing a con to gain fighting speed, because he's still just wheels up,,,,,,,you just vulched the dude.
and finally....i think it is possible to bounce someone that knows you're there. they may not have seen ya till only a few seconds before guns, but they've still been bounced, if they're lower than you.
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You may personally consider it to be a pick but by definition it isn't one. What you're describing would be known as a 'Bounced'. When you attack another player that isn't aware of your presence, you've 'bounced' him. It's really not a subjective thing, it's an already established term to explain the situation you described.
When the term isn't clearly defined, then there will always be different perspectives and opinions on the meaning. However, with terms like "Cherry Pick", "Vulch", "Bounce", the terms are already clearly defined and their definitions have been widely accepted for decades, there is no subjective meanings to these terms. A "Cherry Pick (or just plain "Pick") is the act of engaging an enemy that is already enaged with another bandit. A "Vulch" is the act of engaging an enemy as they are in the process of either taking off or landing. A "Bounce" is the act of engaging an enemy that is unaware of your presence.
ack-ack
Bounced, Picked, what's the difference, they're dead anyways. :devil
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Bounced, Picked, what's the difference, they're dead anyways. :devil
the difference is a lot.
the reason I started this thread was to educate those in error, (the same way you have been trying to educate me in my "aiming") it's true if you get a good hit they are dead BUT, if someone thinks you Picked them, and they rant about it, if they were not engaged well they need to get better SA, they were not picked, I get sick of hearing people say "picktard" when I am the only friendly and they got the number advantage. :rolleyes:
I don't know I guess it's probably pointless to even bring it up, although I see by the responses that there are many who understand the difference.
and possibly a few came away with a little more understanding of what a "pick" is.
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the difference is a lot.
the reason I started this thread was to educate those in error, (the same way you have been trying to educate me in my "aiming") it's true if you get a good hit they are dead BUT, if someone thinks you Picked them, and they rant about it, if they were not engaged well they need to get better SA, they were not picked, I get sick of hearing people say "picktard" when I am the only friendly and they got the number advantage. :rolleyes:
I don't know I guess it's probably pointless to even bring it up, although I see by the responses that there are many who understand the difference.
and possibly a few came away with a little more understanding of what a "pick" is.
hehehehe.....
just about an hour ago, i had a guy crying the blues, because he couldn't pick me off of his squaddie. :devil
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hehehehe.....
just about an hour ago, i had a guy crying the blues, because he couldn't pick me off of his squaddie. :devil
:rofl :rofl
do you only fly MW? if so then I will have to get in there, I just never think about it when I log in, if not we should wing up, you take that 38 of yours high, I will stay low, get them all turning and you can use me as "pickin" bait, :D and there "will be gnashing of teeth". to high heaven.
INK
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was it that grneagljr squeeker?
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I will pick all of you who allow me an angle for a gun solution. If you get nose on (ho) I will decide wheather to shoot you or not depending on my mood. You are responsible for your own SA. Should you be picked because you failed to detect me then so be it.
If I find you low or slow or both and I have an obvious advantage and you do nothing to change such circumstances I will shoot you at the first oppurtunity. If you haul your nose around into me and hang on the prop while I am zooming down after you are roped you will be shot.
If I miss my pick shot and my opponent shows courage and skill and attempts to engage in mortal combat I will do the same.
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Missed my point.. assuming I've already asked nicely.. Don't actually 'yell', just exaggerating for emphasis. I would do the same if somebody 'yelled' at me.
Most guys see red guys and go all out to kill them, without really thinking about etiquette and if the fight is fair. Until you can kill a few in 1v1 w/ no advantage, the norm is to kill no matter what since that is the only way you can get a kill. Picking, besides vulching is where the easiest kills lay, so it will always be done except in organized 1v1 fights.
Merry Christmas!
Cool. FWIW, I ALWAYS ask if my friendly needs help with a 1v1. However, no response to me means I have a green light. YMMV
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:rofl :rofl
do you only fly MW? if so then I will have to get in there, I just never think about it when I log in, if not we should wing up, you take that 38 of yours high, I will stay low, get them all turning and you can use me as "pickin" bait, :D and there "will be gnashing of teeth". to high heaven.
INK
i should start comin to lw....but i kinda like the way mw "feels" if that makes any sense.
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was it that grneagljr squeeker?
nah...a former squaddie......i'd name him...and should....but i honestly respect that squads co too much to drag that poop out.
they have 2 or 3 that're makin me glad i;m not in that squad anymore though...downright embarrassing they are.
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i should start comin to lw....but i kinda like the way mw "feels" if that makes any sense.
yup, best matched plane set/less runners/less squeekers/less HO tards and probably some of the better sticks in the game hang out there
.
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yup, best matched plane set/less runners/less squeekers/less HO tards and probably some of the better sticks in the game hang out there
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well, one of my biggest fears of comin there is that shuffler, and soulss will use me for bait. :noid :bolt: :noid
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Come on shrimp..... umm I mean Cap. :D
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Come on shrimp..... umm I mean Cap. :D
:neener: :neener:
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Here are some other picks....
(http://www.interstatemusic.com/wcsstore/InterstateMusic/ims/ipf/GA178809.jpg)
and
(http://www.joke-of-the-day.com/files/images/queen-nose-pick.jpg)
These are actually pics of picks.
:D