Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: flyemu on December 29, 2009, 12:07:37 PM
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Greetings All
Just curious if there were any real world pilots flying around the Arenas, practicing, or doing squad activities.
Is anybody out there? ;)
Mike "Hardpoint" McCormick
Pale Horses
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Yep
Private/instrument/commercial/multi-engine/taildragger/amphib
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Used to work for an airline, wher I started as Ground School Instructor.
Went to Boeing in 1980 to study General Performance Engineering and Performance Engineering - B-747 Specific, to be able to teach Performance and Weight and Balance.
In this airline flew L-188(Locheed Electra II), B727-100, B-707-300/400 and was flying DC-10-30 as Flight Engineer when I retired.
Sometimes asked colleagues, "Does blood stink? 'Cause if it stinks, am wounded..." :x
Mutley
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SWAPLT is a professional pilot for one of the major airlines.
ROX
(PS--He spends most of his time in gvs--go figure.)
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I don't fly professionally yet, I am working towards doing airshow performances in my Edge 540T. This summer will be attending a school by Sean D Tucker (Awesome airshow pilot) which will put me on that path! CAN'T WAIT! :rock
Sol
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Greetings All
Just curious if there were any real world pilots flying around the Arenas, practicing, or doing squad activities.
Is anybody out there? ;)
Mike "Hardpoint" McCormick
Pale Horses
:airplane:<|===|>Commercial, Instrument, Multi Engine, Flight instructor, Experimental aircraft builder/owner(RV-6) :cool:
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Student.
Hours slowing with weather...
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I don't fly professionally yet, I am working towards doing airshow performances in my Edge 540T. This summer will be attending a school by Sean D Tucker (Awesome airshow pilot) which will put me on that path! CAN'T WAIT! :rock
Sol
YES!!! That plane rocks! :banana: :aok
Had the opportunity to see what that plane can do at the Red Bull Air Races in Rio de Janeiro.
Someone did a maneuver I had only seen in the book "Conquest of lines and simmetry", by Duane Cole.
A left hand, 360 degrees turn, doing a roll to the right... That thing ties a knot in my brain... :x
Break a leg! :salute
Mutley
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Working on getting my PPL, got 20 hours so far.
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:huh Once I was thrown out of a Cocktail Bar...does that count for a self flight?
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Greetings All
Just curious if there were any real world pilots flying around the Arenas, practicing, or doing squad activities.
Is anybody out there? ;)
Mike "Hardpoint" McCormick
Pale Horses
private.....single engine land.
about 207 hours, most in cessna 172. about 10 in a 152, 2 in a schweizer cb300, and 45 minutes from the back seat of a friends super decathalon.
in here,i'm in the 80th FS Headhunters. i often embarrass them, by actually landing......but they all have one thing in common.......fun./ :aok
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Private, Multi, with Complex, tailwheel, signoffs. I am working on my third logbook, havent totaled it in 4 years so couldtellyou how much time I have, but I have flown some of the planes in the game.
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Private, Multi, with Complex, tailwheel, signoffs. I am working on my third logbook, havent totaled it in 4 years so couldtellyou how much time I have, but I have flown some of the planes in the game.
i've flown someof the planes in the game too.
i crash em too. :noid :aok
just kiddin dude....... :neener:
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<--- :airplane:
i fly a bit IRL :salute
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There are at least 3 pilots in the raw prawns, ftJR, Gorkle and mezz who is RAAF and kicks serious butt considering his amount of time in game.
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but I have flown some of the planes in the game.
nice, which ones?
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nice, which ones?
Also curious.
I know there are a couple guys on the board with some F4U stick time.
Mighty impressive.
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R/C and small bush planes.
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I know thrila is training to fly for the fleet air arm! :aok
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I have 900 hours in the crj this year. Been busy year.
(http://www2.picfront.org/picture/gPjT2Fwgl/thb/crj.jpg) (http://www.picfront.org/d/gPjT2Fwgl/crj.jpg)
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I don't fly professionally yet, I am working towards doing airshow performances in my Edge 540T. This summer will be attending a school by Sean D Tucker (Awesome airshow pilot) which will put me on that path! CAN'T WAIT! :rock
Sol
I want an autograph :) please, please, please!!!
Sean Tucker is one bad mofo
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I feel that rather a lot of adults who play flight sims have some sort of background in real world aviation.
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I feel that rather a lot of adults who play flight sims have some sort of background in real world aviation.
I was kind of thinking the same. Although, there are LOTS of people online that's probably never been off the ground. :)
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I don't fly professionally yet, I am working towards doing airshow performances in my Edge 540T. This summer will be attending a school by Sean D Tucker (Awesome airshow pilot) which will put me on that path! CAN'T WAIT! :rock
Sol
wait.......
where are you at again?
and i was just on yellow's website...........i want one of those 38's.
what engines are you using on yours?
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Wow, didn't expect to see that! ;) Especially a couple of commercial guys.
I'm Commercial, Multi, Instrument, CFI down in Savannah, GA. If anyone is ever near KSAV give me a PM and we'll have a beer.
Now if I could just get all of us on one squad. :devil
Mike "Hardpoint" McCormick
Pale Horses
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Yep
Private/instrument/commercial/multi-engine/taildragger/amphib
Dude what kind of Amphibs have you flown? Goose? Caravan? PBY? ;)
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Student.
Hours slowing with weather...
Have you soloed yet?
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I don't fly professionally yet, I am working towards doing airshow performances in my Edge 540T. This summer will be attending a school by Sean D Tucker (Awesome airshow pilot) which will put me on that path! CAN'T WAIT! :rock
Sol
Let us know when you'll be flying at airshows, I'm sure will have a lot of people from here who will come and watch. Good Luck
Just out of curiosity: do you know Sean Tucker in person?
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I flew light planes for a while back in the late 70s early 80s. Pipers and Cessnas.
When my oldest son was 11 I paid for time for him in a Cessna 152. He'd been flying Sims for a while. He was able to handle the 152 well according to the instructor. The time in the sim flying gave him the general idea of how it all worked.
When i was taking lessons at age 17, my instructor would get tired of my rounded off downwind, base and final and tell me to 'quit pretending you are flying a P51!"
:)
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I have a glider pilot license and about 50 hours in my logbook after three flying seasons.
This is the plane which I used most during the previous summer:
(http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs135.snc1/5780_1218648427262_1260420806_30650427_136727_n.jpg)
The Ka-6CR design is from 1959 and this example was built sometime in the 60's. It has wooden construction and minimal avionics with your butt being basically the main instrument. A real pleasure to fly :)
Here's a shot from the cockpit. It was a real good flying day with excellent thermals:
(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs135.snc1/5780_1218648587266_1260420806_30650431_3483249_n.jpg)
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No pilot myself but it's in the blood! Here's a video of our families homebuilt Pietenpol Aircamper. Built by my Dad and Grandfather. First flight in 2001.
I'm providing the front seat ballast here. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXR5I3JGLIE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXR5I3JGLIE)
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Cactus, I was a little disappointed, I didn't see any .303s mounted on the wings. I am assuming that either dad or granddad is carrying concealed :aok Nice job.
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SkyRock<------at the controls 15 minutes one time in a piper cub over suburban Atlanta.... I'm hoping my bro-inlaw will give me lessons this summer.....
What's the average cost of getting your license, minus rental, fuel, and instructor fees?
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Got about 80 hours front seat time in the UH-1N, about 10 up front in the HH-60G
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(https://ssl.cultstyles.de/product_images/images/big/113525_pilot_big.jpg)
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Have about 15 hours in different Ultralight/Light Sport aircraft. Also voluteer on ultralight flight-line at Sun 'n' Fun Fly-in every April in Lakeland, FL.
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I logged about 600 hrs. PIC time in single and twin engine - most in an Ercoupe 415cd, (with rudder pedals), twin time in an Aero Commander 500B. Stopped flying, (sold the Ercoupe), in 1987..
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SkyRock<------at the controls 15 minutes one time in a piper cub over suburban Atlanta.... I'm hoping my bro-inlaw will give me lessons this summer.....
What's the average cost of getting your license, minus rental, fuel, and instructor fees?
fly away from my house. i dont want you crashing in my front yard
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Wow, didn't expect to see that! ;) Especially a couple of commercial guys.
I'm Commercial, Multi, Instrument, CFI down in Savannah, GA. If anyone is ever near KSAV give me a PM and we'll have a beer.
Now if I could just get all of us on one squad. :devil
Mike "Hardpoint" McCormick
Pale Horses
We spend a lot of time in Savannah. In fact we just there for a week and can be found a night or two a week out at Savannah Smiles. If you're into clay shooting take the 1+30 drive north to Bay Gall Sporting Clays if you've never been there. We'll be back down for a week or so in February but haven't firmed up the dates yet.
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SkyRock<------at the controls 15 minutes one time in a piper cub over suburban Atlanta.... I'm hoping my bro-inlaw will give me lessons this summer.....
What's the average cost of getting your license, minus rental, fuel, and instructor fees?
I would say in the neighborhood of $500 perhaps a little more....the flight test alone is $300, written test $75, medical is $50.
Good luck if you can get instruction with a friend, that is a major portion of the cost!
Strip
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Flew the Boeing KC-135 in the USAF during the Reagan/Bush years. Trained in the T-37 and T-38.
Got my ATP. Got rejected by major airlines due to high cholesterol. Now a mere mortal still bragging about my glory days.
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Haven't flown in 17 years since I failed my eye exam and found out the Air Force didn't need me. Spent most of my just over 100 hours in 172's (actually old T-41's that had been retired from AF service and were I guess given to the Aero Club at Myrtle Beach AFB where I did almost all my time flying)with a little time in a 152.
A few weeks ago I actually found a pic I took of the plane I spent most of my time in, a pic I took the day I solo'd it for the first time IIRC.
(http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs111.snc3/15853_1296591780974_1415742882_30839854_2097860_n.jpg)
Someday before I die I'll get current again and have my own aircraft, that's pretty much my life's dream at this point.
Behind the 172, the only thing I have plenty of hours in are Spitfires.
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs111.snc3/15853_1296591860976_1415742882_30839855_440292_n.jpg)
Shot down quite a few Volkswagens and 1 BMW with that one! :lol
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I always talk about taking some lessons to see if I like it. This year My wife called me on it and gave me 2 lessons for xmas. I will continue it if I like it. Just going to be hard getting a nice day to start it up. New York been a bit windy of late.
v1st
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Congrats, Vic! :rock
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Yes, I have my Private, Instrument Commerical and Multi-Engine. MA screen name Popason :airplane:
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I have a few hours in on a Cessna 152 (I think), but it was like 20 years ago. :cry
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Half way towards getting my private license.. Hoping to do my long cross-country flight with my instructor this weekend if the weather holds up.. :aok
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I don't fly professionally yet, I am working towards doing airshow performances in my Edge 540T. This summer will be attending a school by Sean D Tucker (Awesome airshow pilot) which will put me on that path! CAN'T WAIT! :rock
Sol
You seriously own an Edge540T? Thats bad ass...can we get some pics? :aok
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Yep. my pops took some photos of me with it this past weekend, jsut waiting for him to email em to me. Soon as he does ill upload em.
As for Sean Tucker, don't know him personally yet, but will by the end of the summer lol. And rest assured, as soon as I do begin performing I will most certainly let everyone know!
Sol
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Have you soloed yet?
No, not yet. Almost on cue, several other real life factors really cut down on my available time, unfortunately.
Learning on a Diamond DA-40XLS.
We'll get there slowly but surely. ;)
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Now if I could just get all of us on one squad. :devil
Mike "Hardpoint" McCormick
Pale Horses
It wouldn't necessarily help. I'm a professional pilot (CRJ here too), but I suck at air combat.
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R/L I've been one of the lucky few to fly the Collings B-17 and B-24 (type rated). I've also flown the TF-51 Crazy Horse and have a few flights in a T-6 (the piston powered one). The rest of my time is in Cessnas mostly hauling skydivers. Not currently flying AH...just not enough time in the day.
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Yep. my pops took some photos of me with it this past weekend, jsut waiting for him to email em to me. Soon as he does ill upload em.
As for Sean Tucker, don't know him personally yet, but will by the end of the summer lol. And rest assured, as soon as I do begin performing I will most certainly let everyone know!
Sol
Sol, thats awesome! If you get to fly with Ben Freelove, he's a great pilot as well and flys with Sean.. I got to fly with him about 6 months ago in a Pitts S2B at the Tutima Academy.. Very very fun! :cheers:
http://vimeo.com/4114802
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Haven't flown in 17 years since I failed my eye exam and found out the Air Force didn't need me. Spent most of my just over 100 hours in 172's (actually old T-41's that had been retired from AF service and were I guess given to the Aero Club at Myrtle Beach AFB where I did almost all my time flying)with a little time in a 152.
A few weeks ago I actually found a pic I took of the plane I spent most of my time in, a pic I took the day I solo'd it for the first time IIRC.
(http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs111.snc3/15853_1296591780974_1415742882_30839854_2097860_n.jpg)
Shot down quite a few Volkswagens and 1 BMW with that one! :lol
thought yoou might like to know that airplane is still active.
N-number : N5152F
Aircraft Serial Number : 17252996
Aircraft Manufacturer : CESSNA
Model : 172F
Engine Manufacturer : CONT MOTOR
Model : 0-300 SER
Aircraft Year : 1965
Owner Name : UNITED STATES AIR FORCE OWNER
Owner Address : 9 SVS/SVR
: 6249 C ST
BEALE AFB, CA, 95903
Type of Owner : Government
Registration Date : 07-Dec-1992
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Standard
Approved Operations : Normal
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Sol, thats awesome! If you get to fly with Ben Freelove, he's a great pilot as well and flys with Sean.. I got to fly with him about 6 months ago in a Pitts S2B at the Tutima Academy.. Very very fun! :cheers:
http://vimeo.com/4114802
I know ben pretty well. I was in the Civil Air Patrol with him back in the day. We recently reconnected via facebook lol
Sol
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R/C and small bush planes.
So, you're trying to tell us at that 12 years old you fly small bush planes in addition to R/C planes?
ack-ack
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So, you're trying to tell us at that 12 years old you fly small bush planes in addition to R/C planes?
ack-ack
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :banana:
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I know ben pretty well. I was in the Civil Air Patrol with him back in the day. We recently reconnected via facebook lol
Sol
Very cool.. I see him around Sonoma on occasion because his girlfriend has a hangar up there.. Really nice guy and a great pilot..
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Very cool.. I see him around Sonoma on occasion because his girlfriend has a hangar up there.. Really nice guy and a great pilot..
Does he park his plane in his girlfriends hangar when there?
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Does he park his plane in his girlfriends hangar when there?
I've never seen his Extra 300 up there, but his girlfriend has a very nice RV6..
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I've never seen his Extra 300 up there, but his girlfriend has a very nice RV6..
RV6???? Quick someone hold Hitech back.
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fly for fun when I can .. time in 172's, stearman biplane, aeronca champ, ..and best hour on the planet in Crazy Horse with Lee a few years back.
He still doesn't beleive I only had 18 hours total when I went 'hands on' with Crazy Horse and just danced in the clouds.
Still smile every time I think of that hour .. was more fun than I imagined it would be.
..prolly have well over 3k hours 'simulated' in the '51 ..all the numbers I knew by heart, even the popup for simulated strafing run down in the weeds at that Naval Weapon training center ..over the field at 400 indicated and zero altitude, 3g pull to wingover and line up at 3500 ft AGL ..off the 'target' at 200' and away over the tree tops near 400 again ..it was a beautiful Sunday afternoon :)
-GE aka Frank
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Airplane & helicopter instructor in Oregon. Anyone in Oregon that wants to fly, pilots or people that have never flown, let me know..
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I am an A&P and would like to take it one step further and learn to fly, but the lack of money is keeping me from doing so. Anyone up for some trade work? :D
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I have my Private Single Engine Land; Tailwheel and HP sign off.
Fly experimental's - RV-10, Glasair III, Christen Eagle II http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v97-nC34bZk
Sol show us that Edge!!!
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only 6 hrs in 172, last time I flew was about 1999 :(
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I have a few hours in on a Cessna 152 (I think), but it was like 20 years ago. :cry
Same here, in a Cessna 150, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
My Dad, who recently retired from teaching A&P mechanics, built himself a Fisher Celebrity (http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/8/8/1554887.jpg) (image is an example, not his plane).
My brother (with multi-engine, CFI, etc.) works in aviation insurance. He got to shake Sully's hand, the lucky dog!
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(http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/65500/Pilot-Person-of-the-Year--65538.jpg)
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UL-A Rating since 1992 (http://images3.jetphotos.net/img/1/7/7/2/25718_1261376277.jpg)
UL-B rating since 2000 (http://www.pilots.nu/YVV_on_floats_thumb.JPG)
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Started flying in 1969 mostly in the Taylor BL-65 and BC-12D tail daggers and the Cessna 150 and 172s. I Even crashed an ultra light in 91. Don't fly any more do to a Stroke and heart problems except carton planes here in Aces High.
R-105
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Airplane & helicopter instructor in Oregon. Anyone in Oregon that wants to fly, pilots or people that have never flown, let me know..
:airplane: Strong10, I might know you , KHIO is my home airport and where I keep my RV-6
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Never got to fly with Sean Tucker but I got to go to a private show he put on for the company my sister works for (OregonAero) in Scappoose.
He is a great pilot & a great guy. He even let me ham it up with his aerobatics team. :lol
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j199/fergy61/P8080009.jpg)
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Never got to fly with Sean Tucker but I got to go to a private show he put on for the company my sister works for (OregonAero) in Scappoose.
He is a great pilot & a great guy. He even let me ham it up with his aerobatics team. :lol
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j199/fergy61/P8080009.jpg)
MajWoody have you ever been to the RV builders group home wing fly in at Scappoose?
In the past we have had close to 100 RV's there. Usually happens in June.
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looking for real world pilots.the dickweed heavy bomber group also fly real world as well as aces hi.we have 6 pilots in our squad.and also fly realworld virtual platform's microsoft flight sims 2004 and FS-X
http://www.pnavirtual.com
http://www.theskunkbunker.com
<S> operation officer GrnEagle
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MajWoody have you ever been to the RV builders group home wing fly in at Scappoose?
In the past we have had close to 100 RV's there. Usually happens in June.
No, I didn't know about it. Thanks for the heads up, I'll be looking for it this next summer. :salute
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SkyRock
What's the average cost of getting your license, minus rental, fuel, and instructor fees?
Books - couple hundred. Examiner - 400. Headsets - 1000.
The rest of the stuff you minus'd - budget between $10 and $15,000.
A rough breakdown: Airplane $145 per hour * 60 hours average: $8700
Instructor: $110 per hour * 40 to 50 hours: $4400-5000
Fuel: Budget between $40-50 per hour: $2400-3000.
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Books - couple hundred. Examiner - 400. Headsets - 1000.
The rest of the stuff you minus'd - budget between $10 and $15,000.
A rough breakdown: Airplane $145 per hour * 60 hours average: $8700
Instructor: $110 per hour * 40 to 50 hours: $4400-5000
Fuel: Budget between $40-50 per hour: $2400-3000.
:airplane: It can very a little from this depending on your ability and how fast you learn. This is using a part 141 flight school
if you can find a freelance instructor with an airplane it could be cheaper. Everywhere I know about and have taught
at include fuel with airplane rental price.
Private Pilot Certificate
Text and Materials $415.00
20 Hours Dual (Cessna 152) $2,640.00
15 Hours Solo (Cessna 152) $1,320.00
10 Hours Pre & Post Flight $440.00
Computerized FAA Written Exam $100.00
1 Hour A/C Rental for Practical Test $88.00
TOTAL COST $5,000 to $6000
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:airplane: It can very a little from this depending on your ability and how fast you learn. This is using a part 141 flight school
if you can find a freelance instructor with an airplane it could be cheaper. Everywhere I know about and have taught
at include fuel with airplane rental price.
Private Pilot Certificate
Text and Materials $415.00
20 Hours Dual (Cessna 152) $2,640.00
15 Hours Solo (Cessna 152) $1,320.00
10 Hours Pre & Post Flight $440.00
Computerized FAA Written Exam $100.00
1 Hour A/C Rental for Practical Test $88.00
TOTAL COST $5,000 to $6000
This is isn't realistic. The vast majority of the population will not fit in a Cessna 152, nor would they want to. This also assumes the minimum to qualify for the checkride of FAA 40 hours - which 90% of the canidates which have the skills necessary to even get to the checkride will never make. You gotta be realistic when you quote numbers - this is a tactic to hook ya on the hope of flying. If you teach like I do, you need to set realistic expectations. i.e. We are in the New York area, the airspace is the busiest in the world, complicated, and it will take more then the 40 hour minimum to get your private, assuming I don't wash you out in the first 5 hours. Like most things in life - you do it on the cheap, you get what you pay for.
On a side, for the drivers and wouldbe drivers out there - we issued a Safety issue through COPA for Free. Its worth a read - has tips on recognizing detonation and pre-ignition that are worth reading if you have the equipment onboard.
http://www.cirruspilots.org/media/p/482566/download.aspx (http://www.cirruspilots.org/media/p/482566/download.aspx)
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assuming I don't wash you out in the first 5 hours.
What would be grounds for washing someone out? Not putting the time into studying the material, freezing up while at the controls, not listening to the instuctor, or something I've missed?
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What would be grounds for washing someone out? Not putting the time into studying the material, freezing up while at the controls, not listening to the instuctor, or something I've missed?
Its the amount of time it takes for both myself and the student to know if this is something they can be successful at - so as not to waste anyone's time or money. This is generally after 3 get together's - with the associated ground and academic work.
General things that will not look good: not asserting responsibility for being the one in command; a resigned attitude; not having the time to devote to the training; preparedness (nothing is more insulting then a student who comes unprepared. I'm getting paid a lot of money to teach - I want you to get value from my time.)
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This is isn't realistic. The vast majority of the population will not fit in a Cessna 152, nor would they want to. This also assumes the minimum to qualify for the checkride of FAA 40 hours - which 90% of the canidates which have the skills necessary to even get to the checkride will never make. You gotta be realistic when you quote numbers - this is a tactic to hook ya on the hope of flying. If you teach like I do, you need to set realistic expectations. i.e. We are in the New York area, the airspace is the busiest in the world, complicated, and it will take more then the 40 hour minimum to get your private, assuming I don't wash you out in the first 5 hours. Like most things in life - you do it on the cheap, you get what you pay for.
On a side, for the drivers and wouldbe drivers out there - we issued a Safety issue through COPA for Free. Its worth a read - has tips on recognizing detonation and pre-ignition that are worth reading if you have the equipment onboard.
http://www.cirruspilots.org/media/p/482566/download.aspx (http://www.cirruspilots.org/media/p/482566/download.aspx)
:airplane: Actually it is very realistic!! when you quote someone $1000.00 for headsets that is not being realistic, why would a student want to spend that much for headsets until they even know if they well get the PP or not? Yes Bose ANRs are nice to have but not until you have your certificate and even till you buy your own airplane. When you quote fuel as an extra above the cost of rental that is not realistic, most aircraft rental places factor the price of fuel into the rental cost. I guess one reason could be your East coast and I am West coast. As you said the people that are not going to make it for some reason or other are usually washed out in the first few hours, but the ones that really apply them self and want to learn can usually do it very close to FAA minimum hours. I have never had a student take over 55 hours now have ex students of mine that are running flight schools and flying commercially and are flight instructors. So the comment you get what you pay for is a cheap shot. Also there are many many independent flight instructors out there that do a good job of instructing and do not gouge the student like some schools do. Many flight schools and flight center instructors are just trying to build time to move on to flying jobs and flying on a students money is a cheap way for them to build time to qualify for a flying job.
Most students that start taking flying lessons are in their late teens to late 30s so do not have that mid life spread yet and fit just fine in a Cessna 150/152.
By your other comments I would guess that you are using a Cirrus to teach in so that explains the high rental cost and your bias toward Cessnas. There is no more forgiving airplane made for teaching students how to fly than a Cessna 150/152.
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Nothing against Cessnas, got hundreds in the entire line Just cannot see having ones nuts sqeezed in a 152 when yr 6 foot 200. On the ANR, if you cannot dissipate the sound energy then yr hearing takes the hit. That's not something that returns with time - so for the lifer a grand for a good anr pays the rest of yr days. Cirrus is just one type that I happen to own, but I teach in cessnas, grummans, mooneys, pipers, plus their cabin class twins.
The rest i stand by.
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rvflyers quote is pretty close. Most people don't live in the area where they like to rip people off. Private certificate for 6500 while on a 2 week vacation from work. It was even issued by the same FAA your 40,000 dollar certificate was. probably around 3500 for a recreational certificate.
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Logbook + 2 hours cubjc3&cessna172 :cheers: :bolt: :headscratch:
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Cool to see so many other pilots flying AH. :cheers:
Solo'd on my 16th b-day and now I'm commercial/instrument/tailwheel - about 420 hours so far, around 300 of that in my dads '54 L-21 Super Cub. I started flying with him when I was 6, so I probably have close to 1000 in it, but a lot of it was before I solo'd so it doesn't officially count.
I think I'm about a month or so away from my CFII, will get the CFI after that and plan to make a career out of it. It's a pretty crappy time at the moment for pilots/the industry, but I'm confident it'll all work out.
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I am an A&P and would like to take it one step further and learn to fly, but the lack of money is keeping me from doing so. Anyone up for some trade work? :D
I'll trade you flight instruction for landscaping work in the spring. You have to provide the plane though. :)
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Cool to see so many other pilots flying AH. :cheers:
Solo'd on my 16th b-day and now I'm commercial/instrument/tailwheel - about 420 hours so far, around 300 of that in my dads '54 L-21 Super Cub. I started flying with him when I was 6, so I probably have close to 1000 in it, but a lot of it was before I solo'd so it doesn't officially count.
I think I'm about a month or so away from my CFII, will get the CFI after that and plan to make a career out of it. It's a pretty crappy time at the moment for pilots/the industry, but I'm confident it'll all work out.
Hi Cobra.
I started flying in 1975 and it was a "...a pretty crappy time at the moment for pilots/the industry...", already... :)
In the 80's had an interview with ICAO(International Civil Aviation Organization) Representative in Brazil.
He was Spanish, and unfortunately, don't remember his name. He said, nowadays many people are worried about getting a job in aviation. Many small towns, grow, an whatīs one the first things they think of, to give it status? Building an Airport!!
And, later on, talking to a friend pilot in our airline who owned a Cessna 152, I was telling him I intended to buy a single engine for sport.
He told me that when he went to buy his plane, and didnīt have the money, the seller said, "You already got 50%..." Howīs that? I already got 50%???? my friend asked.
"Yes, you have the WISH to own an airplane..."
So, donīt worry Cobra, the Aviation Industry IS EXPANDING, in spite of what many people say, and you already got 50% of what you want... ;) :aok
Mutley
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What would be grounds for washing someone out? Not putting the time into studying the material, freezing up while at the controls, not listening to the instuctor, or something I've missed?
Not paying the ripoff rates of $110/hr rates, lol. You wouldn't get washed out of any legitimate program 'cept military. You can train any monkey to be a pilot, this guy can only wash people out of his program.. If you want to be a pilot, you can. Some people take more time, some less. In the end, a guy that takes 40hrs or 120hrs is held to the same standards and regulations when you get your license.
BTW, Part 141 only requires 35hrs min.
Anyone can go get behind the controls of an airplane for about $50 for 20-30 min or so. Its as much fun as you would think and more!
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Not paying the ripoff rates of $110/hr rates, lol. You wouldn't get washed out of any legitimate program 'cept military. You can train any monkey to be a pilot, this guy can only wash people out of his program.. If you want to be a pilot, you can. Some people take more time, some less. In the end, a guy that takes 40hrs or 120hrs is held to the same standards and regulations when you get your license.
BTW, Part 141 only requires 35hrs min.
Anyone can go get behind the controls of an airplane for about $50 for 20-30 min or so. Its as much fun as you would think and more!
Actually what I charge is pretty competitive for White Plains who I compete with in training and the type aircraft. I come in at $145 and $40 for gas, still end up $90 less then the least expensive SR-20 out there. That, in addition to having to cover all the liability insurance, risk + maintenance.
http://www.performanceflight.com/rental_rates.html (http://www.performanceflight.com/rental_rates.html)
# Instructor - $95/hr
# Simulator - $165/hr
Rental Rates
All planes are 2007 models and are fully loaded.
# SR20-GTS - $265/hr
# SR22-GTS - $300/hr
# SR22-GTS - Cirrus Perspective - $310/hr (arriving soon!)
# SR22-GTS Turbo - $325/hr
# Diamond DA-42 Twinstar - $350
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Well, learning to fly doesn't have to cost you an arm and a leg. If someone wants to learn to fly send me a PM I'll hook you up with a guy in Albertville, Al. you won't have a fancy simulator or fancy complex aircraft to fly but you will learn in a Cessna 172 and spend around $6500 for a private certificate. And the certificate comes from the same building in Oklahoma City the people Wolfala trains. How long does it take? Well i studied for the written exams for six months on my own then logged 58hrs in 2 weeks in a cessna 172 and did my check ride. It all depends on you.
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I've seen more than a few issues with various methods of fast-tracking ones self through flight training. Choose the method that works best for you taking into consideration your schedule, your budget and your objective assessments of your progress. I'd recommend not starting your flight training until you have double your budget in cash on hand. Since I don't know many folks who can do that the recommendation isn't very practical. What is practical is making sure that you can afford your training so you don't have to quit when you're 3/4ths through your training.
The reality in todays world is that your private pilot certificate might very well cost $10,000 and more to obtain. That's 3+ times to potentially 5 times more than I paid at that point in my life which was a multiple of what it cost people not that many years before me.
Your bills don't stop at the completion of your certificate. If you can't afford to keep flying once you earn your certificate then don't even start. Flying is a perishable skill and not staying proficient for those first few hundred hours after your private certification are statistically the most hazardous you'll face in your recreational flying career.
Wolfala's assessment of how things work in the northeast is accurate. They are also for some of the newest and highest performance basic airplanes out there. You can still find Cessna 150/152/172 airplanes to rent from 70-120 an hour wet. You can find instructors for 30-50 an hour. Will it be cheap? Not a chance. Will you have to spend $1000 on a headset? No. Can it be done for under $10,000? Sure but don't bank on it. Personally I feel $10,000 is a good starting budget to work with for a basic student. If that causes sticker shock it's a good thing because the reality of this hobby being both serious investments in money and time is highlighted early on.
That said:
Is it worth it? Absolutely!
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Actually what I charge is pretty competitive for White Plains who I compete with in training and the type aircraft. I come in at $145 and $40 for gas, still end up $90 less then the least expensive SR-20 out there. That, in addition to having to cover all the liability insurance, risk + maintenance.
http://www.performanceflight.com/rental_rates.html (http://www.performanceflight.com/rental_rates.html)
# Instructor - $95/hr
# Simulator - $165/hr
Rental Rates
All planes are 2007 models and are fully loaded.
# SR20-GTS - $265/hr
# SR22-GTS - $300/hr
# SR22-GTS - Cirrus Perspective - $310/hr (arriving soon!)
# SR22-GTS Turbo - $325/hr
# Diamond DA-42 Twinstar - $350
Damn looking at those rates, i feel like im gettin a steal at $180/hr, with my instructor, wet, in a Cessna 172
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Damn looking at those rates, i feel like im gettin a steal at $180/hr, with my instructor, wet, in a Cessna 172
Hope you are working out of California Airways at Hayward. They got great instructors and a fleet to go with it - and don't rip you a new amazinhunk on the rates either. If you get the chance, do your flight review with Mal Raff. He's a PHD in Astrophysics - and fun to work with.
If you fly with West Valley at HWD, PAO or SQL - then those rates shouldn't surprise you. But from your reaction i'm assuming you do not.
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Damn looking at those rates, i feel like im gettin a steal at $180/hr, with my instructor, wet, in a Cessna 172
i paid about $110/hour in c-172n wet with instructor.
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something else that may bear mention.
when i took my primary training, i had a very good instructor. he was always very professional, in all of our dealings.
this is good. he taught me well. he seemed to want to avoid things though. like crosswind landings.
i joine another club after gettin my ticket. started flying with a different instructor. this guy has an entirely different teaching style.
he teaches in a more friendly style. to me at least, this is more comfortable. the poor guy worked his ARSE off helping me with my crosswind landings. i totally sucked at them before...even in only 4 or 5kts.
now, 8kts is easy, at 10-11, i'm sweating, and wouldn't try more than 8 or 9 by myself to be honest.
but this guy acts more like my buddy, or my father teaching me. i think that the extra comfort level(i'm NEVER fully comfortable with people that act professional) allowed me to absorb more information.
it's not that i feared my first cfi....or that i didn't like him, because i did........and i had full confidence in the guy.
i guess what i'm trying to say, is try a couple of different places, and cfi's. each teaches differently.
Golly-gee it!!! now i hafta get ahold of bob, and see if he's got time soon. :aok
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After 20 years of dreaming, reading magazines, books, Internet sites and flight simming, I finally had the money and time to make the dream come true in this just passed year.
I fly with what are legally defined ultralights here in Italy, but are LSA in US (tecnam's P92 http://www.tecnam.com/index_en.html), I have made only 10 hours after taking the licence in October, but I plan on increasing that figure in this year! :)
Cap, I agree with what you said, we have 3 instructors at the flying club, I flew with each of them and they all taught me something unique, a slightly different approach to flight from which I could get my own personal "style" of flying, from pre-flight to post-landing checks, I do recommend trying different instructors.
Regarding PPL costs, I must say that reading what you wrote comforted me a bit... I always thought that FTOs here in Italy were a bunch of legally authorized thieves, since I always heard that in US a licence could cost no more than 4/5k bucks, while in here prices starts from 8/10k euros (with Cessnas, not Cirrus!)... after reading the above posts, I see once more that voices are never as accurate as one would like to believe. ;)
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Hi Gianlupo howdy? ;)
About 50hrs with the school's Kitfox III and about 250hrs with my red painted Kitfox IV (Rotax 582 with variable pitch propeller):
(http://annunci.ultraleggero.it/annuncio/sal-kitfox-iv/foto/480x/nd/kitfox.jpg)
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About 50hrs with the school's Kitfox III and about 250hrs with my red painted Kitfox IV (Rotax 582 with variable pitch propeller):
(http://annunci.ultraleggero.it/annuncio/sal-kitfox-iv/foto/480x/nd/kitfox.jpg)
That looks pretty cool - I bet that's a lot of fun!
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Hi Gianlupo howdy? ;)
About 50hrs with the school's Kitfox III and about 250hrs with my red painted Kitfox IV (Rotax 582 with variable pitch propeller):
(http://annunci.ultraleggero.it/annuncio/sal-kitfox-iv/foto/480x/nd/kitfox.jpg)
Woot! Ehi Gatt, still lurking around in the forums? Nice Kitfox, I hope one day I'll be able to afford a little plane of my own... :)
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Hope you are working out of California Airways at Hayward. They got great instructors and a fleet to go with it - and don't rip you a new amazinhunk on the rates either. If you get the chance, do your flight review with Mal Raff. He's a PHD in Astrophysics - and fun to work with.
If you fly with West Valley at HWD, PAO or SQL - then those rates shouldn't surprise you. But from your reaction i'm assuming you do not.
I actually have a great instructor out of Sonoma Skypark.. I checked the rates for California Airways and its only about $20 cheaper per hour in their 172's.. If it were $40-50 cheaper I might consider a switch but for now I think I'm ok where im at..
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Wow looking at the cost to learn to fly now is scary. My cousin Larry owned the Taylor Craft BC-12D and later the BL-65. I few with him in his planes for gas money for who knows how many hrs. At sixteen I used the BL-65 and paid $125.00 for ground school and the instructor $15.00 an hour until I soloed. Then started flying Larry's Taylor again for gas money. Gee some times it is good to be an old guy.
R-105
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Wow looking at the cost to learn to fly now is scary. My cousin Larry owned the Taylor Craft BC-12D and later the BL-65. I few with him in his planes for gas money for who knows how many hrs. At sixteen I used the BL-65 and paid $125.00 for ground school and the instructor $15.00 an hour until I soloed. Then started flying Larry's Taylor again for gas money. Gee some times it is good to be an old guy.
R-105
it's the best money you'll evert spend
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Books - couple hundred. Examiner - 400. Headsets - 1000.
The rest of the stuff you minus'd - budget between $10 and $15,000.
A rough breakdown: Airplane $145 per hour * 60 hours average: $8700
Instructor: $110 per hour * 40 to 50 hours: $4400-5000
Fuel: Budget between $40-50 per hour: $2400-3000.
You forgot the "priceless" part.
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Wow looking at the cost to learn to fly now is scary. My cousin Larry owned the Taylor Craft BC-12D and later the BL-65. I few with him in his planes for gas money for who knows how many hrs. At sixteen I used the BL-65 and paid $125.00 for ground school and the instructor $15.00 an hour until I soloed. Then started flying Larry's Taylor again for gas money. Gee some times it is good to be an old guy.
Yep. When I got my private I was paying $12/hour solo, $16/hour dual in a brand spanking new Cessna 150. IIRC the 172 cost me $20/hour dual. I had a great CFI, he owned the 150 and 172. A lot of my flying time was basically free....I'd wash the airplanes, clean the belly...usually good for 1/2 hour solo.
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You forgot the "priceless" part.
True,
And it affords you the opportunities to have experiences like this throughout the year.
http://www.facebook.com/v/256808066213 (http://www.facebook.com/v/256808066213)
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Yep. When I got my private I was paying $12/hour solo, $16/hour dual in a brand spanking new Cessna 150. IIRC the 172 cost me $20/hour dual. I had a great CFI, he owned the 150 and 172. A lot of my flying time was basically free....I'd wash the airplanes, clean the belly...usually good for 1/2 hour solo.
:airplane: You guys must be young guys, when I learned in a Taylorcraft it was $4.00 hr wet and $5.00 for instructor, got PP in 1965. In 1964 my dad bought a Tri Pacer
and I remember scarping up $3.00 to put gas in it to fly for an hour. :old:
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PP/ASEL here.
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:airplane: You guys must be young guys, when I learned in a Taylorcraft it was $4.00 hr wet and $5.00 for instructor, got PP in 1965. In 1964 my dad bought a Tri Pacer
and I remember scarping up $3.00 to put gas in it to fly for an hour. :old:
lol I give you :old: :old: :old: :old: :old: out of 5
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I've got about 1,500 hours as a P-3 Orion pilot; "A handful of college graduates ferrying a crew of high school drop-outs from party to party around the world."
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/toonces3/frontplane.jpg)
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Toon I love that one...and I get it! <S>
15,000 hours and counting. I get a printout at the end of the year for exact flight time! I love the job, 60 and sunny yesterday in Ft. Meyers and back to -14 last night! Why didn't I stay?
Flifast
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I've got about 1,500 hours as a P-3 Orion pilot; "A handful of college graduates ferrying a crew of high school drop-outs from party to party around the world."
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/toonces3/frontplane.jpg)
toony,
A metoc guy in P-3's?
S!
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That looks pretty cool - I bet that's a lot of fun!
Yup, very easy to ground loop ;)
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Currently 737-800 CA, with major airline almost 23 years. Over 18,000 hours in glider, taildragger, seaplane, gen aviation, helicopter, B737 and DC10. Some Acro time in Citabria & Great Lakes. Was gen aviation instrument instructor up through multi and helo. Spent 4 years flying a Jet Ranger for a TV station and 3 years Corporate fixed/rotor. Still can't fly cartoon planes! :D
It has been a Blast!
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glider and swaplt both fly commercially for one of the major airlines.
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Hi all!
Just something I forgot to say.
To all those learning to fly I recommend reading William K. Kershner books. :aok
Mutley out.
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9 hours in a Piper Warrior, and about 1.5 hours in the back seat of an F-16D.
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I think Wolfala is pretty close with his costs except - perhaps - that most people won't do their initial training in SR20 / 22's. I'm learning in DA-20's out of John Wayne in Orange County and the costs he quotes are pretty similar to what I'm seeing.
The DA-20 works out at about $130/hr wet and my instructor is $55/hr. The school has a variety of aircraft ranging from a recently added Evektor Sportstar LSA for about $100/hr up to SR22 Turbos at $350/hr and an Extra 300 at $369/hr. For the fatties ;) doing initial training, there are a bunch of 172's and a pair of DA-40's which will set you back between $140/hr and $175/hr.
The school advised me when I started out that I should budget between $12k and $15k all up and so far, that seems to be pretty realistic. Most of the guides you'll read on getting your PPL will tell you the minimum 40 hours is unrealistic for most students and one of the reasons I went with this school was they were the only ones to acknowledge this when giving me expected costs. So far I'm pretty happy. I was also given the $6K quotes by other schools, but so no reason for them to believe I'd be that much above average so assumed they were being less than truthful.
If the weather holds and work doesn't get in the way, I should be doing my first solo in the next few days.
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If the weather holds and work doesn't get in the way, I should be doing my first solo in the next few days.
Good luck! Just did mine a few months back.. Awesome/Scary feeling to be up all by yourself! :cheers:
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It's just as scary being an instructor...I think I soloed maybe 100 + people! Flifast :airplane:
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It's just as scary being an instructor...
I can believe that
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It's just as scary being an instructor...I think I soloed maybe 100 + people! Flifast :airplane:
from what i gather of what the average cfi gets paid, and from what i gather can happen to them, as far as lawsuits, things comin back on them from students they've checked out, the sheer responsibility of their positions, and just dealing with "joe public".....i don't think they get paid nearly enough.
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from what i gather of what the average cfi gets paid, and from what i gather can happen to them, as far as lawsuits, things comin back on them from students they've checked out, the sheer responsibility of their positions, and just dealing with "joe public".....i don't think they get paid nearly enough.
as is the case with I think pretty much anyone who flies for a living.. from ATP's to fighter pilots to CFI's... its a damned shame.. Do i recall correctly that a FO on say a 30 pax turboprop for a regional airline starts at like $20-30k??
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as is the case with I think pretty much anyone who flies for a living.. from ATP's to fighter pilots to CFI's... its a damned shame.. Do i recall correctly that a FO on say a 30 pax turboprop for a regional airline starts at like $20-30k??
20k???/ that;'s IT????
a dishwasher makes almost that much.
THAT is a crime, and they are underpaid if such is the case. horribly underpaid.
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Thankfully, Major Airline pilots make a bit more than that but I did start out as a poor underpaid CFI. :D
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The DA-20 works out at about $130/hr wet and my instructor is $55/hr. (snip)
:airplane: Thats what the school charges for an instructor, have you asked him how much he gets paid?
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from what i gather of what the average cfi gets paid, and from what i gather can happen to them, as far as lawsuits, things comin back on them from students they've checked out, the sheer responsibility of their positions, and just dealing with "joe public".....i don't think they get paid nearly enough.
There effectively is no statute of limitations. I could've given a guy a checkride 6 years ago, flown with him once, and the second he plows into something his family of heir's can come after me if I have deep pockets. Or, as is usually the case - the manufacture of some twittleing widget that some retard attorney dreamed up being a problem. I'd cite a 2003 incident when a VFR 22 pilot flew into IMC, non rated - killed himself. The family then sued Cirrus and won...
In what world? And you wonder why a 30 cent piece costs $70? A spark plug costs $25? Product liability. Same goes for students.
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There effectively is no statute of limitations. I could've given a guy a checkride 6 years ago, flown with him once, and the second he plows into something his family of heir's can come after me if I have deep pockets. Or, as is usually the case - the manufacture of some twittleing widget that some retard attorney dreamed up being a problem. I'd cite a 2003 incident when a VFR 22 pilot flew into IMC, non rated - killed himself. The family then sued Cirrus and won...
In what world? And you wonder why a 30 cent piece costs $70? A spark plug costs $25? Product liability. Same goes for students.
==============================================
I did have an insurance company try to come after me after I checked a guy out in our Twin Comanchee. He crashed it but no one was hurt. He used to own one and had way more time in one than I did. :( Only had one former student die flying that I know of and they left me alone. I went through King Air 200 factory school in 1984 and they told me that each 200 had $100k tacked on for product liability. Some idiot ran his King Air outta gas and his family successfully sued Beechcraft for a couple million $ because the Flight Manual didn't say you had to put fuel in it.....Duhhhh! Thus the yellow arc on Beech fuel guages. So sad that the attorneys rewrite the Fight Manuals.
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:airplane: Thats what the school charges for an instructor, have you asked him how much he gets paid?
Nope - that would be none of my business, but I think we can safely assume the school's taking a reasonable chunk of it.
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I've had around 10 hours but not all of it was logged when I was younger. Only in c152/172 paid lessons and a chipmonk with the RAF cadets. Very slowly getting there, should have my licence some time in 2060 at this rate. Also done 6 hours in gliders, much fun. The first loop I ever did myself was in a glider right over my house. I pulled back so hard that I smashed my head into the seat rest and made the instructor shout with alarm. Got an hour coming up next month in a Pitts, I really cannot wait for that.
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Around 50 hours in gliders plus unofficial 2-3 hrs at controls of Yak12 tow plane and Zlin 142M aerobatic trainer. PPL in plans as soon as I find time for it.
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I have also ultralight licence (LSA in USA). I have now 32 hours in Evektor EV-97 Eurostar.
Making a preflight check in my own lake ice airfield :)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2644/4200155258_b1ff23a856_b.jpg)
Here are some videos about flying with Eurostar.
My first solo flight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cxc6iKrnNE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cxc6iKrnNE)
Hanging on the sky with my friend...Some of you might also know him?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRG8Y5zw4qw&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRG8Y5zw4qw&feature=channel)
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I have the same Ultralight license as Sasmox here in Finland. I have about 77 hours in the Eurostar. Loving every minute :aok
Here's a couple of my more experimental videos:
Two GoPro cameras attached to the plane, one in main landing gear, another in wing tiedown point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrHMpDvTWts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrHMpDvTWts)
One GoPro camera in main landing gear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slGT_yBUGW4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slGT_yBUGW4)
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I have also ultralight licence (LSA in USA). I have now 32 hours in Evektor EV-97 Eurostar.
Making a preflight check in my own lake ice airfield :)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2644/4200155258_b1ff23a856_b.jpg)
Here are some videos about flying with Eurostar.
My first solo flight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cxc6iKrnNE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cxc6iKrnNE)
Hanging on the sky with my friend...Some of you might also know him?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRG8Y5zw4qw&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRG8Y5zw4qw&feature=channel)
ya know...i'm prolly gonna get flamed for this...and i'm not meanin to be a jerk......
but was it super windy there, and the trees just weren't moving? that was a somewhat scary looking take off. you were almost to the grass on the left.
also, why did you just "firewall" the throttle? i've not flown lsa......but in the 172's and 152's i don't just firewall it either.......steady application of throttle.
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Is it not possible for wind to be calm AGL and strong at 1000ft?
edit: i think i misunderstood what you meant....ignore me :lol
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ya know...i'm prolly gonna get flamed for this...and i'm not meanin to be a jerk......
but was it super windy there, and the trees just weren't moving? that was a somewhat scary looking take off. you were almost to the grass on the left.
also, why did you just "firewall" the throttle? i've not flown lsa......but in the 172's and 152's i don't just firewall it either.......steady application of throttle.
I think it's partially due to the placement and angle of the camera that, while left of centerline, caused an illusion of making it worse than it was. I'd say it was windy as well based on what appeared to be bumps immediately after departure and throughout the flight.
Secondly the power application seems to go in two distinct stages with about 2 seconds elapsed for throttle travel. Seems reasonable.
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I am not flying the plane, but like Golfer said, the video viewpoint distorts the view of the situation...
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I have the same Ultralight license as Sasmox here in Finland. I have about 77 hours in the Eurostar. Loving every minute :aok
Here's a couple of my more experimental videos:
Two GoPro cameras attached to the plane, one in main landing gear, another in wing tiedown point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrHMpDvTWts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrHMpDvTWts)
One GoPro camera in main landing gear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slGT_yBUGW4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slGT_yBUGW4)
I will say this....
When you turned around at the end of your taxi I thought for sure you were gonna ground loop!
Sweet little ride tho!
Strip
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I think it's partially due to the placement and angle of the camera that, while left of centerline, caused an illusion of making it worse than it was. I'd say it was windy as well based on what appeared to be bumps immediately after departure and throughout the flight.
Secondly the power application seems to go in two distinct stages with about 2 seconds elapsed for throttle travel. Seems reasonable.
that could be.
i wasn't sure about the throttle application......i'm used to a more gradual application of the throttle......pretty close to a 5-count. i also thought that was what may have brought it off to the side like that......
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i'm used to a more gradual application of the throttle......pretty close to a 5-count
That's why it's good to fly with other folks. You get to see other ways of accomplishing the same goal that are sometimes better, somtimes not better and other times simply different than your currrent method.
There was nothing scary about the takeoff roll. Rather it was different than what you've seen before as it deviated slightly from your expectations and experiences.
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I cleared approach and taxi'd out, firewallin the throttle as soon as I was straight .. *once* .. in a 172.
Told the instructor I would like to try it if traffic was light .. it was .. I did.
We almost got into the grass on the left ...full rudder on a 172 is not enough with a climb prop on it.
The good news is .. we got takeoff speed before actually departing the runway ..
..the bad news is .. I hated that feeling of not being able to keep it straight down the centerline.
It was hectical.
Hectical is bad.
-GE aka Frank
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Private. I haven't updated my physical in about 10 years. I miss the real thing. :D
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I'm working on my private, I've soloed and am trying to do my first cross country, unfortunately the weather hasn't been cooperating.
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I cleared approach and taxi'd out, firewallin the throttle as soon as I was straight .. *once* .. in a 172.
Told the instructor I would like to try it if traffic was light .. it was .. I did.
We almost got into the grass on the left ...full rudder on a 172 is not enough with a climb prop on it.
The good news is .. we got takeoff speed before actually departing the runway ..
..the bad news is .. I hated that feeling of not being able to keep it straight down the centerline.
It was hectical.
Hectical is bad.
-GE aka Frank
i did that once.
funny thing later, after i had my ticket. all of our club 172's there had 40 degree flaps. the cfi i flew with there taught me to always use em all. he had me poppin the last 10 on short final when i knew i had the runway made.
at that time, no one had ever explained to me of the dangers of havin all 40 degrees out.
well, when i first flew one of our CAP 172's, i was in for a bit of a shock. all of our 172's are "P" models, and all have 180hp conversions. the "P" also only has 30 degrees of flaps.
whelp......bob watched me closley as i went through the preflight, then he showed me the cap specific paperwork, then we strapped in, ran the checklists, and fired up. taxied up to the runup area, went through the checklist, set the radios, etc.
taxied out, doublechecked to be sure nothing on base or final, made my call, pulled out, and took off. was beautiful. she flew herself off the runway for me. climbout was spectacular(for a 172), and we stayed in the patter.
i forget the exact speeds, but established myself on downwind, did my midfield check, and started slowing down at the usual point for that airport. downwind to base, perfect(so i thought) base to final perfect(so i thought). short final, i'm close enough i know i have the runway made, i go for that last notch of flaps.......that isn't there! by this time, i've pulled into the flare over the threshold now, throttle to idle, and proceeded to to one of the most graceful extended floats you've ever seen a 172 do.
ended up going around. bob was paying close attention to what i was doing, and i think getting a "feel" for what i knew, and could do.
he spent quite a bit of time "re-teaching" me to land, which was kinda hard for me, 'cause i had to un-learn bad habits. now, when i'm in club planes, i never need the full 40 degrees, and i still land better, and shorter than i used to do the way i was originally taught.
this is part of why i said to fly with different cfi's. i don't fault my primary cfi, but rather myself for not thinking farther.
bob and i had a good laugh....and we still laugh at that first landing with him flying with em. :aok
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That's why it's good to fly with other folks. You get to see other ways of accomplishing the same goal that are sometimes better, somtimes not better and other times simply different than your currrent method.
There was nothing scary about the takeoff roll. Rather it was different than what you've seen before as it deviated slightly from your expectations and experiences.
That, in my opinion, is one of the greatest problems in Aviation Learning. One does a very common mistake, and goes home thinking, "I'm really stupid, how could I do THAT???..."
Then one goes to watch someone else taking lessons, and doing worse...
Which leads to one of the best reccomendations to Flight Instructors, or to any Instructor:
"Don't forget how you were, when you were at the same stage your student is..."
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That, in my opinion, is one of the greatest problems in Aviation Learning. One does a very common mistake, and goes home thinking, "I'm really stupid, how could I do THAT???..."
Then one goes to watch someone else taking lessons, and doing worse...
Which leads to one of the best reccomendations to Flight Instructors, or to any Instructor:
"Don't forget how you were, when you were at the same stage your student is..."
vet pile-its should remember the highlighted line in game too. :aok
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We almost got into the grass on the left ...full rudder on a 172 is not enough with a climb prop on it.
Gotta call BS :lol - with its steerable nosewheel and differential brakes, there isn't any kind of a prop that's going to pull a 172 off the centerline!
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Gotta call BS :lol - with its steerable nosewheel and differential brakes, there isn't any kind of a prop that's going to pull a 172 off the centerline!
LOL, I agree Cobra516 very little P-factor involved with a nose wheel airplane. Not until you get a nose high attitude and then minimal with a 172.
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Gotta call BS :lol - with its steerable nosewheel and differential brakes, there isn't any kind of a prop that's going to pull a 172 off the centerline!
i did it too.
and the 62 172 i flew, needed differential braking for ground handling.
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i did it too.
and the 62 172 i flew, needed differential braking for ground handling.
Pffft, hogwash! Just because it needs differential braking for ground handling doesn't mean it's just going get away from you while you've got full opposite rudder/nosewheel deflection AND differential braking, lol. Come on now! I've got about 60 hours in an AA5B Tiger that has a castering nosewheel and differential braking for steering and it's childs play to keep pointed straight down the runway regardless of how you apply the power.
Sounds like you guys forgot what your feet were for! Training wheel airplanes, pfft. :lol
The only left hand turning tendancies on the takeoff roll in a 172 are the slipstream and torque (which is very minimal) - you might need to add 1/4 right rudder deflection to keep it straight if you really crammed in full power all the sudden, but once you're at full power it's all spiraling slipstream on the ground.
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Pffft, hogwash! Just because it needs differential braking for ground handling doesn't mean it's just going get away from you while you've got full opposite rudder/nosewheel deflection AND differential braking, lol. Come on now! I've got about 60 hours in an AA5B Tiger that has a castering nosewheel and differential braking for steering and it's childs play to keep pointed straight down the runway regardless of how you apply the power.
Sounds like you guys forgot what your feet were for! Training wheel airplanes, pfft. :lol
The only left hand turning tendancies on the takeoff roll in a 172 are the slipstream and torque (which is very minimal) - you might need to add 1/4 right rudder deflection to keep it straight if you really crammed in full power all the sudden, but once you're at full power it's all spiraling slipstream on the ground.
the 62 never did that to me. '
it was a 79 "N" model with a fresh 180hp engine. it did, and i don't generally think that applying any braking action during take off roll is a very good idea. :aok
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it was a 79 "N" model with a fresh 180hp engine. it did, and i don't generally think that applying any braking action during take off roll is a very good idea. :aok
No, it isn't - but if you feel that it's necessary to use them to keep from running off the runway because the engine/prop combo in that 172 is so powerful - then they are certainly meant to be used. :lol It has plenty of rudder to keep it on the centerline though - at least from my experience. The brakes in the Tiger are only used for taxiing/turning, and maybe on the initial part of the takeoff roll if the nosewheel is sticking.
As far as no brakes on the takeoff roll, some tailwheel airplanes need a little coordinated brake and rudder work on the initial part of the takeoff roll.
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the 62 never did that to me. '
it was a 79 "N" model with a fresh 180hp engine. it did, and i don't generally think that applying any braking action during take off roll is a very good idea. :aok
Got to respectfully ask why not Cap1? After years of instructing in 150s and 172s they are pretty benign even with 180 HP.
Now I fly mostly tailwheel airplanes and a lot of them you have to use combination rudder and differential braking or they won't go straight down the runway. Plus with
the nose high attitude already on a tailwheel airplane (USA some engines turn other direction) some of them require a substantial amount of right rudder and brake on initial roll.
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Never ran out of rudder on a 172, but on a 182 or 206 if you lift the nose wheel real early and have any left xwind you might need to tap the brake a bit to keep it pointed straight. Probably the same on a 180HP 172 IF you get the nose wheel off real early.
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Private Pilot/Instrument rating (2700hrs). Airplane owner since 1979, (currently Cessna 182). Love to fly more than anything else!
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Got to respectfully ask why not Cap1? After years of instructing in 150s and 172s they are pretty benign even with 180 HP.
Now I fly mostly tailwheel airplanes and a lot of them you have to use combination rudder and differential braking or they won't go straight down the runway. Plus with
the nose high attitude already on a tailwheel airplane (USA some engines turn other direction) some of them require a substantial amount of right rudder and brake on initial roll.
I'VE NEVER flown tail draggers.
i probably only had that problem, because i was so new, and let it get too far ahead of me.
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Private Pilot/Instrument rating (2700hrs). Airplane owner since 1979, (currently Cessna 182). Love to fly more than anything else!
When people ask what I like best, I usually answer, women up to 5th place, and after that I love flying.
Donīt want people asking me, "Don't you like women???". :x
Mutley
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:rofl
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Got my PPL long ago. Haven't flown left seat since '84. I miss it....wish I had the time to maintain proficiency.
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When people ask what I like best, I usually answer, women up to 5th place, and after that I love flying.
Donīt want people asking me, "Don't you like women???". :x
Mutley
Lol, I guess we all know that's not true... I think everyone who posted in this thread loves flying more than women! :D
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Gotta call BS :lol - with its steerable nosewheel and differential brakes, there isn't any kind of a prop that's going to pull a 172 off the centerline!
ROFL.
-tosses a peanut to the gallery.
Don't matter to me what you call anything at all
.. I was there and did what I said I did.
The plane was 40R, a '68 172 we affectionately called 'snaggle tooth' due to the two exhaust stacks pointing straight down out of the cowling. Climb prop meant she never saw anywhere near yellow speeds straight and level, but at least you could climb out of the pattern in 100 degree weather at Apple Valley Airport. I doubt if Mike Scott is still there, I'm sure he could spare a peanut for yas also.
-GE aka Frank
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ROFL.
-tosses a peanut to the gallery.
Don't matter to me what you call anything at all
.. I was there and did what I said I did.
The plane was 40R, a '68 172 we affectionately called 'snaggle tooth' due to the two exhaust stacks pointing straight down out of the cowling. Climb prop meant she never saw anywhere near yellow speeds straight and level, but at least you could climb out of the pattern in 100 degree weather at Apple Valley Airport. I doubt if Mike Scott is still there, I'm sure he could spare a peanut for yas also.
-GE aka Frank
Sorry Grayeagle, had to be some other problem, a 172 with any type of prop just will not pull off center line even if you jam the throttle in as fast as you can
prop-factor, prop slipstream and torque are just not that noticeable on a nose gear 172. If you were doing a soft field takeoff and pulled into a nose high attitude while
still on the runway you may get some P-factor effect but even then very controlable with brakes and rudder.
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Sorry Grayeagle, had to be some other problem, a 172 with any type of prop just will not pull off center line even if you jam the throttle in as fast as you can
prop-factor, prop slipstream and torque are just not that noticeable on a nose gear 172. If you were doing a soft field takeoff and pulled into a nose high attitude while
still on the runway you may get some P-factor effect but even then very controlable with brakes and rudder.
so? you're saying you could throttle up a 172, with feet off the rudders, and nothing would happen?
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so? you're saying you could throttle up a 172, with feet off the rudders, and nothing would happen?
Now now don't be a smartass :lol - of course you need a little rudder input starting the takeoff roll. But what we're saying is that you have ample rudder authority to maintain directional control while on the takeoff roll in a no wind condition in a 180 HP 172 with a climb prop, it won't be "getting away from you" unless you're doing something wrong.
I'm not sure why I have to continue to debate such a trivial matter, entertainment I guess :lol
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I'm entertained.
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Now now don't be a smartass :lol - of course you need a little rudder input starting the takeoff roll. But what we're saying is that you have ample rudder authority to maintain directional control while on the takeoff roll in a no wind condition in a 180 HP 172 with a climb prop, it won't be "getting away from you" unless you're doing something wrong.
I'm not sure why I have to continue to debate such a trivial matter, entertainment I guess :lol
yea, you're right...i was bein a smartass.
i also mentioned it was one of my first takeoffs, and i let it get too far ahead of me.
my takeoffs are straight down the centerline , as are my landings. :aok
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Whenever I have found myself off the side of the runway admiring the weeds I've been, upon reflection, able to trace it to a deficiency in piloting technique rather than the fault of the airplane or engine/prop selection. There was one instance where the top wire of a fence wrapped around the gear leg and crimped the right brake line shut on a C 188 but, hey, I should't have hit the fence. I am, also, squarely in the camp of those who prefer a dab of brake if necessary during the takeoff roll to the scenic tour of the less improved areas of the airport.
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Whenever I have found myself off the side of the runway admiring the weeds I've been, upon reflection, able to trace it to a deficiency in piloting technique rather than the fault of the airplane or engine/prop selection. There was one instance where the top wire of a fence wrapped around the gear leg and crimped the right brake line shut on a C 188 but, hey, I should't have hit the fence. I am, also, squarely in the camp of those who prefer a dab of brake if necessary during the takeoff roll to the scenic tour of the less improved areas of the airport.
so far, no one has said any different
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As single engine, reliable, private aircraft, I LOVE Cessnas.
See what guys do in Brazilian Amazon jungle, to take doctors and medicine goods to native villages, or servicing gold(or precious stones) digging camps.
200m length, runways, many with no go around chance, because of high trees, with under maintained, overloaded planes...
They go in overloaded, carrying miners, or beer and stuff for the miners and go out overloaded with miners, gold, sick or wounded, dead, and gold.
AND they carry a sidearm, nasty things happen in those areas...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcgFfynfCds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcgFfynfCds)
In this one fast forward to around 7 minutes and see a "high performance" take off... :x
I the take off after this one the pilot has to alleviate fuel load, so not to get stuck in the mud...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=7lkCJ7S6MGk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=7lkCJ7S6MGk)
Just one piece of advice from a friend who flies there and was teaching me., he said, with a funny smile, "Son, in a single engine plane, landing on those runways, always plan your approach so you have to reduce power, NEVER to add power,,, 'Cause if if you need power and the engine quits, you're done..."
Centerline? What's a centerline? :x
Mutley
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Pretty wild flying in those videos!
Here's a near 0 groundspeed landing and takeoff in a Super Cub on a hillside side. Looks to have modified wingtips, drooped ailerons, VG's and a 180 HP with a big prop aad some big tires :lol. That kind of flying has to be a blast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XYFcw1c-Oo
Dragging the wheels in the water for about 150 feet to shorten the ground roll onto the beach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21El16OPZoc
Loni has some great videos about bush flying on his site http://cubdriver749er.com/
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As single engine, reliable, private aircraft, I LOVE Cessnas.
See what guys do in Brazilian Amazon jungle, to take doctors and medicine goods to native villages, or servicing gold(or precious stones) digging camps.
200m length, runways, many with no go around chance, because of high trees, with under maintained, overloaded planes...
They go in overloaded, carrying miners, or beer and stuff for the miners and go out overloaded with miners, gold, sick or wounded, dead, and gold.
AND they carry a sidearm, nasty things happen in those areas...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcgFfynfCds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcgFfynfCds)
The first exterior shot in the clip is a Heliocourier. It is a purpose built STOL aircraft and is THE aircraft to use if you need to operate on crappy strips. They were built in Pittsburg, KS and the factory runway was all of 500' long. I've got a little time in the type, an ex-military U 10 actually, between 3 & 4 hundred hours and love them. When you get them slowed up the slats pop out and they have spoilers that operate in conjunction with the ascending aileron for low speed roll control. I was flying it one day towing gliders when the FAA guy was on the field and he came over to chat. It turned out that he had been a factory demo pilot for Helio and used to occasionally land them with the parking brake set to impress potential customers. I never tried that but I can see how you could do it. His name was Bill Mackey and he went on to become the manager for FAA Central Region.
They have a couple of quirks but are just great ships.
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The first exterior shot in the clip is a Heliocourier. It is a purpose built STOL aircraft and is THE aircraft to use if you need to operate on crappy strips. They were built in Pittsburg, KS and the factory runway was all of 500' long. I've got a little time in the type, an ex-military U 10 actually, between 3 & 4 hundred hours and love them. When you get them slowed up the slats pop out and they have spoilers that operate in conjunction with the ascending aileron for low speed roll control. I was flying it one day towing gliders when the FAA guy was on the field and he came over to chat. It turned out that he had been a factory demo pilot for Helio and used to occasionally land them with the parking brake set to impress potential customers. I never tried that but I can see how you could do it. His name was Bill Mackey and he went on to become the manager for FAA Central Region.
They have a couple of quirks but are just great ships.
Just posted the link because because it shows the kind of runways and conditions they operate.
We all know what's a Cessna and what's not... :neener:
The great majority of single engine planes flying in the Amazon area are Cessnas.
We say here, "single engine is Cessna and twin is Beechcraft". :aok
And I salute those guys for doing a job, few want to take, without which many would die.
The average loss is about 2 planes per month...
Mutley
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Pretty wild flying in those videos!
Here's a near 0 groundspeed landing and takeoff in a Super Cub on a hillside side. Looks to have modified wingtips, drooped ailerons, VG's and a 180 HP with a big prop aad some big tires :lol. That kind of flying has to be a blast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XYFcw1c-Oo
Dragging the wheels in the water for about 150 feet to shorten the ground roll onto the beach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21El16OPZoc
Loni has some great videos about bush flying on his site http://cubdriver749er.com/
The trick there is the use on "Tundra" tires. Tundra tires rock! Although very expensive and hard co come by.
And speaking of tires, when those jungle guys have a flat and no spare, they fill the tire with grass and take off . :x
Mutley
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Just posted the link because because it shows the kind of runways and conditions they operate.
We all know what's a Cessna and what's not... :neener:
The great majority of single engine planes flying in the Amazon area are Cessnas.
We say here, "single engine is Cessna and twin is Beechcraft". :aok
And I salute those guys for doing a job, few want to take, without which many would die.
The average loss is about 2 planes per month...
Mutley
i've only got just over 200 hours. the majority are in cessnas. i flew a couple pipers, and although they're nice....well......i just like cessnas.
i truly believe it's the ford/chevy discussion taken to the air though.
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i've only got just over 200 hours. the majority are in cessnas. i flew a couple pipers, and although they're nice....well......i just like cessnas.
i truly believe it's the ford/chevy discussion taken to the air though.
I love Chevys. :x :aok
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I love Chevys. :x :aok
I used to love chevys too. Since they are on the welfare rolls now I do not.
I only want them out of my pocket.
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I've jumped out of plenty, C-130, C-141, C-17, C-47, UH-60Blackhawk, UH-1, CH-47, Cessna 172, 182, Beech 18, UV-18, and many others,,,only saw em as a means to get to altitude!
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I've jumped out of plenty, C-130, C-141, C-17, C-47, UH-60Blackhawk, UH-1, CH-47, Cessna 172, 182, Beech 18, UV-18, and many others,,,only saw em as a means to get to altitude!
That reminds me of the little kid who is with his mama at the airport and sees a plane up in the sky droping parachutists. There is the plane, way up, leaving some dark dots behind.
He says, "Look Ma! That plane is doing dodo!" :x
A big :salute to you Sir, specially on the C-141 jump. and whatever you did after those jumps...:aok
Mutley.
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I used to love chevys too. Since they are on the welfare rolls now I do not.
I only want them out of my pocket.
i've always been a ford nut..........never had a chevy that was comparably modified to any of my fords beat em....including my 64 galaxy.....and that dam thing had the front end in one zip code, the back end in another. :rofl
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I have had to use breaks on takeoff a few time, Aerostars mostly, a Beech 18, cause I forgot to lock the tailwheel, that was a suprise, and a DC-3. Well I had to once or twice in a J-3, a Taylorcraft, a champ, once in a while in a Kate, but I cant think of any of the little cessnas that I ever had to use breaks on takeoff. As he said it was one of his first takeoffs so I would have more reason to get onto the instructor for letting it get to far out. Just my humble opinion.
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I've got about 1,500 hours as a P-3 Orion pilot; "A handful of college graduates ferrying a crew of high school drop-outs from party to party around the world."
ROFL...I was one of the high-school dropouts. VP-31 '70-'72. Spent a fair amount of time sleeping under the radar console. Figured out why it was the warmest place on the bird to catch a few Zs before it was too late...I thi thi think. :rolleyes: