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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: grizz441 on January 16, 2010, 08:13:55 PM

Title: DA Arena Message
Post by: grizz441 on January 16, 2010, 08:13:55 PM
Thank you for this HTC.  It was much needed.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: 1701E on January 16, 2010, 08:25:42 PM
For anyone who hasn't seen it yet:

*** WARNING:  READ THIS! ***

The primary purpose of the Dueling Arena is to
allow players a private refuse [Refuge?] for fighting duels.

Anyone interrupting duels, in this arena, will be
subject to ejection from the game.

Duels are to be fought away from the Furball area
of the terrain.  In the Furball area, anything goes.


I don't visit the DA for anything (no one asks me to a duel :p ), but for those who do it should help.  Thank you HTC. :salute
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Delirium on January 16, 2010, 08:55:23 PM
Thanks HTC!

At times I've brought students in there from the TA so they can learn without the damage free environment the TA is. I've constantly had folks make a nuisance of themselves, regardless of how many times I've politely asked them to stay out.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: dedalos on January 16, 2010, 09:31:38 PM
Now thats funny. Why the change of mind?
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: sunfan1121 on January 16, 2010, 09:40:53 PM
Thank you HTC
 :salute
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: hlbly on January 16, 2010, 09:44:36 PM
Thanks HTC :rock
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: hlbly on January 16, 2010, 09:54:29 PM
Now thats funny. Why the change of mind?
I think it may be due to some repeated bs some guys thrive on . There are about 30 of us that tend to go there late night early am . Anywhere from 3 to 9 a side . Rules are simple tune ch , no hoing , fights are 1v1 and dont be an alt monkey . Anyone is welcome , pick your plane and have fun . There are about 4 or 5 guys that like to grab something fast and pick . Usually results in the thing being stopped . Have even seen one guy , after one of us upped a temp to do nothing but stop him go over the lake up , and come in so high no one wanted to spent 10 minutes grabbing to wait for a guy that was dead 10 seconds after merge . Thing is 23 24 the base closest to lake is only flat terrain on map . Most guys never go 500 feet higher then what they take off at . Unless it is a real sweet E-fight . I may be perverse but I love a fight that goes against norm and winds up going higher and higher . So the prime real estate for us is close to the lake . Not that I speak for HTC in any way , but I think it was simple response to customers reasonable requests .
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: dedalos on January 16, 2010, 10:23:38 PM
Ohhh i understand the why and i am happy for the change. But this is a request that has been made repeatedly through the years for the reasons u stated but we were told it would not happen. Just wondering what made it finally happen

Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Ardy123 on January 16, 2010, 11:04:29 PM
Thank you HTC. This was a much needed message.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Kazaa on January 16, 2010, 11:56:27 PM
'bout time, I'm tired of noobs not doing as they are told!
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: boomerlu on January 17, 2010, 12:03:33 AM
Good deal. Exactly how the DA should be.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: hlbly on January 17, 2010, 12:10:42 AM
'bout time, I'm tired of noobs not doing as they are told!
Bro they aint noobs , everyone has been flying alot longer than I have they are either lazy or so insecure thier egos cant handle the beatings you have to take to get better . They have learned how to get a kill picking , or hoing or both . Then they learn to get in something fast and make sure they have some alt or E or better yet both . Great k/d ratio name in lights high score . Viola I am uber . The situation they been going for us is just paradise . When you flying in this environment your SA is just on your plane and the one you are fighting . After all no one is going to pick here. Easy meat . Those of us that fly in this little group are either yours and Bruvs caliber , or like me . Willing to take the poundings , the lessons it takes to get to your level of play .  
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: JunkyII on January 17, 2010, 12:18:57 AM
I was going to send HTC a film from me and Suns fighting when I guy named Ki11a(something like that) came and picked Suns, I didnt because a few days later a "some guy" we were fighting with acted like a mod :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: TonyJoey on January 17, 2010, 12:26:22 AM
Nice, Thanks HT! :aok
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Bruv119 on January 17, 2010, 03:46:05 AM
'bout time, I'm tired of noobs not doing as they are told!

+1

it does make me laugh when they will ask for a fight on 200.  Have the ability to type and read at that point.  Then when they don't get an answer and attempt to invade a private session without saying anything lose the ability of all correspondence.   Then they get killed in one or two turns wasting both of our time.  

This may read a bit arrogant but infact it is they who are being ignorant.  Many of us are more than prepared to help others who ask for it but tools in the DA are just that...

It still begs the question on the procedure for moderating the interruptions.   It could be 2-5am USA time when the DA is relatively quiet and we are practicing who does the ejecting?
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Agent360 on January 17, 2010, 04:00:49 AM
WTG HTC!!

Much needed message.

Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: grizz441 on January 17, 2010, 04:38:04 AM
It still begs the question on the procedure for moderating the interruptions.   It could be 2-5am USA time when the DA is relatively quiet and we are practicing who does the ejecting?

It forms a precedent to those who would be the ones 'griefing' the fights.  If a griefer interrupts your fight, you can now redirect him to the arena message and threaten to film and send it to HTC if he continues.  If he does continue, well, then you send the film in and he will get banned.  

There are newbs that interrupt the fights unwittingly of what they are doing.  These are also the guys that will usually apologize and fly elsewhere when you inform them.

It essentially creates a form of recourse for guys who are getting purposely griefed.

Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: batch on January 17, 2010, 04:55:07 AM
its a nanny state way of trying to force common courtesy on those who dont have it plain and simple......

if theyre doing it just to grief you......... theyll find other ways

I never venture over to the DA......but Im sure the complaints are legitimate........ and hopefully this will help fix it......

I just somehow doubt it

it does seem silly for them to sit in the DA... where typically 'better' sticks fly......... trying to get easy kills........... they should come to the MA they could increase their kills using these tactics tenfold
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: warhed on January 17, 2010, 05:03:46 AM
its a nanny state way of trying to force common courtesy on those who dont have it plain and simple......

if theyre doing it just to grief you......... theyll find other ways

I never venture over to the DA......but Im sure the complaints are legitimate........ and hopefully this will help fix it......

I just somehow doubt it

it does seem silly for them to sit in the DA... where typically 'better' sticks fly......... trying to get easy kills........... they should come to the MA they could increase their kills using these tactics tenfold

In the few days since the message popped up, it has helped.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: hlbly on January 17, 2010, 07:01:52 AM
+1

it does make me laugh when they will ask for a fight on 200.  Have the ability to type and read at that point.  Then when they don't get an answer and attempt to invade a private session without saying anything lose the ability of all correspondence.   Then they get killed in one or two turns wasting both of our time.  

This may read a bit arrogant but infact it is they who are being ignorant.  Many of us are more than prepared to help others who ask for it but tools in the DA are just that...

It still begs the question on the procedure for moderating the interruptions.   It could be 2-5am USA time when the DA is relatively quiet and we are practicing who does the ejecting?
Presentient ? just had it happen .
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: slimmer on January 17, 2010, 07:42:11 AM
thank htc  :salute
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2010, 02:12:59 PM
allow players a private refuse [Refuge?] for fighting duels.

LoL.  Hitech must have coaded that. 

:lol,
Wab
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: stodd on January 17, 2010, 10:11:28 PM
Awsome!
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: waystin2 on January 18, 2010, 08:28:25 AM
It's only happened to me twice, but still a good policy HTC! :aok
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Ghastly on January 18, 2010, 09:16:24 AM
I think it may be due to some repeated bs some guys thrive on . There are about 30 of us that tend to go there late night early am . Anywhere from 3 to 9 a side . Rules are simple tune ch , no hoing , fights are 1v1 and dont be an alt monkey . Anyone is welcome , pick your plane and have fun . There are about 4 or 5 guys that like to grab something fast and pick . Usually results in the thing being stopped . Have even seen one guy , after one of us upped a temp to do nothing but stop him go over the lake up , and come in so high no one wanted to spent 10 minutes grabbing to wait for a guy that was dead 10 seconds after merge . Thing is 23 24 the base closest to lake is only flat terrain on map . Most guys never go 500 feet higher then what they take off at . Unless it is a real sweet E-fight . I may be perverse but I love a fight that goes against norm and winds up going higher and higher . So the prime real estate for us is close to the lake . Not that I speak for HTC in any way , but I think it was simple response to customers reasonable requests .

Unless I'm mistaken, you guys are doing this in the Furball area - which is where the lake is, right?? (Not that I spend too much time in the DA, although I've been up a few times trying to sort out a new aircraft, or to figure out what I'm consistently doing wrong in my regular rides, so I could be wrong...).

But it seems to me that the message pretty much makes it clear that HTC is imposing no extra restrictions on how the guys fly in that area, they are in hot water only for disrupting duels away from there - and to make it clear, duels are specifically to be flown in areas no where near there.

Right, or did I misread it?

<S>


<S>
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: TequilaChaser on January 18, 2010, 09:19:30 AM
You misread it Ghastly.... they are away from Furball Lake  and are having private duels as a group.......

they use A23/A24 because of its flat terrain..

only bad thing is A23/A24 is close to Furball Lake
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Ghastly on January 18, 2010, 09:22:59 AM
Ahhh. I thought the mention of the lake placed this in the Furball area.  If not, then the disruptive griefer should be boiled in oil.

<S> 
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: IrishOne on January 18, 2010, 10:20:13 AM
wtg HTC, bout time these weenies were put in check  :aok
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: SunBat on January 18, 2010, 10:24:22 AM
Cool.  Now let's split out the furball area and the dueling area into two different arenas, give the furball area a perk system, turn kill shooter off in the dueling area and then we can all do the banana dance.    :banana:
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: mensa180 on January 18, 2010, 12:12:28 PM
I'd love killshooter off.  Not only could I not have to wait by flying from a different field for duels, but we could self police the ones who interrupt us.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: hlbly on January 19, 2010, 12:00:23 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, you guys are doing this in the Furball area - which is where the lake is, right?? (Not that I spend too much time in the DA, although I've been up a few times trying to sort out a new aircraft, or to figure out what I'm consistently doing wrong in my regular rides, so I could be wrong...).

But it seems to me that the message pretty much makes it clear that HTC is imposing no extra restrictions on how the guys fly in that area, they are in hot water only for disrupting duels away from there - and to make it clear, duels are specifically to be flown in areas no where near there.

Right, or did I misread it?

<S>


<S>
No it is happening at side bases in particular 23/24 the only flat terrain side base . We run rolling 1v1's , the more people the better . Unfortunatly 23/24 is the only base choice with the flat terrain we prefer it is right next to the lake but not part of it  . We like it because with no hills you never get the situation where one guy is forced to fly nose up the other nose down because the moment of merge happens to be on a hill . When you get beat where the playing field is flat no doubt in your mind , that you got outflown or just plain screwed the pooch . Not by something outside of your control . I also disagree with you on "no where near there" to me it implicitly states the objected to behavior is only allowable at the lake no where else . Call it a rolling 1v1 or duel what we are doing is one guy pitting his ability against another ones with no one else allowed to interfere . That being said if a guy brings a person or persons into the DA to teach him in a place that does not have the damagless environment of the TA that has its limitations in terms of wether a fight would be lost or won in a subjective instead of an objective way have the right to do so free of interference from people who are just disrupting what is being taught ? People who have the lake to fly as they see fit ? Most of the time the people off to the side are not guys settling a grudge or seeing who is the better of the two for whatever reason . It is guys that are trying to get  better , to have the confidence to know that they don't have to run if they don't have an overwhelming advantage . They don't have to run if they lose that advantage because they now have the ability to reverse a bad position . Would that not fix alot of what frustrates alot of us about MA play ?
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: hlbly on January 19, 2010, 12:11:54 AM
its a nanny state way of trying to force common courtesy on those who don't have it plain and simple......

if theyre doing it just to grief you......... theyll find other ways

I never venture over to the DA......but Im sure the complaints are legitimate........ and hopefully this will help fix it......

I just somehow doubt it

it does seem silly for them to sit in the DA... where typically 'better' sticks fly......... trying to get easy kills........... they should come to the MA they could increase their kills using these tactics tenfold
Once they lose the ability to interfer in my fight . How exactly will they grief me ? Have no doubt but that it will fix it . When beggynns thought that on a sunday morning he could go ahead and do as he pleased because no one from HTC would be around to enforce the message he did just that . When my various calls for help brought TC to the arena , a trainer and someone that most of us interpret as a guy that HTC will listen to . It stopped immediately . What was turning into the typical reaction of most of us . Stopping because there is nothing we can do to make this guy stop . Changed instead into what we want most . Good clean 1v1's with a great vet helping us identify our mistakes .
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: hlbly on January 19, 2010, 12:17:34 AM
+1

it does make me laugh when they will ask for a fight on 200.  Have the ability to type and read at that point.  Then when they don't get an answer and attempt to invade a private session without saying anything lose the ability of all correspondence.   Then they get killed in one or two turns wasting both of our time.  

This may read a bit arrogant but infact it is they who are being ignorant.  Many of us are more than prepared to help others who ask for it but tools in the DA are just that...

It still begs the question on the procedure for moderating the interruptions.   It could be 2-5am USA time when the DA is relatively quiet and we are practicing who does the ejecting?
I think that the best way to moderate this would be to appoint  some DA mods . Instead of being secret mods make it well known by having it in the place of where squad info goes , like the trainers do when in TA . Give them ejection powers from the arena . Powers that I bet would mostly be unused . If they see that the mod is here and on duty just a quick message away from help , they will not engage in rule breaking .
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Shuffler on January 19, 2010, 12:18:00 AM
Few of the 80th had fun at the canyon in there tonight.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: MORAY37 on January 19, 2010, 12:19:50 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: SkyRock on January 19, 2010, 08:38:10 AM
I think the DA arena message is due, needed, and will be very helpful.

 :aok
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Shuffler on January 19, 2010, 10:27:49 AM
I think the DA arena message is due, needed, and will be very helpful.

 :aok

Agreed
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: MORAY37 on January 19, 2010, 11:10:47 AM
See Rule #4

Hmmmm.  I didn't know it was disrespectful to state a fact and to ask a question.  Perhaps it was the sarcasm, though.

Without rehashing the previous post, who is going to monitor the DA and who will have the power to throw people out?

Secondarily, when will cursing and other bad language, political flaming, sexual comments not be tolerated and punished in the MA's?
It is not enough to film and send these things...the MA's are rampant.  

I agree it's a step in the right direction, but a policy without enforcement is simply an idea floating in the ether.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Skuzzy on January 19, 2010, 11:40:27 AM
Hmmmm.  I didn't know it was disrespectful to state a fact and to ask a question.  Perhaps it was the sarcasm, though.

Without rehashing the previous post, who is going to monitor the DA and who will have the power to throw people out?

We do (HTC).

Secondarily, when will cursing and other bad language, political flaming, sexual comments not be tolerated and punished in the MA's?
It is not enough to film and send these things...the MA's are rampant.  

I agree it's a step in the right direction, but a policy without enforcement is simply an idea floating in the ether.

The community has the .report/.vreport mechanisms available.  Properly used, these mechanisms will deal with bad verbal or text issues.  Films (for VOX issues) and/or screenshots sent in are also acceptable.

We have always provided recourse, to the community, for dealing with generally ill-behaved players.  It is a players choice if they want to use it or not.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Shuffler on January 19, 2010, 11:41:26 AM
Hmmmm.  I didn't know it was disrespectful to state a fact and to ask a question.  Perhaps it was the sarcasm, though.

Without rehashing the previous post, who is going to monitor the DA and who will have the power to throw people out?

Secondarily, when will cursing and other bad language, political flaming, sexual comments not be tolerated and punished in the MA's?
It is not enough to film and send these things...the MA's are rampant.  

I agree it's a step in the right direction, but a policy without enforcement is simply an idea floating in the ether.


Film and report... why do you think that is not enough?



<edit>   Skuzzy on the job  :D
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: SkyRock on January 19, 2010, 12:25:09 PM
when will cursing and other bad language, political flaming, sexual comments not be tolerated and punished in the MA's?

Hmmmm?   How can a comment, on a ch you aren't forced to tune, bother you in any way....unless you allow it to bother you?
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: MORAY37 on January 19, 2010, 12:35:16 PM

Film and report... why do you think that is not enough?



<edit>   Skuzzy on the job  :D

I've reported many people repeatedly, and yet they still do the same things.  This is why I don't think it is enough.  I stopped using .report a long time ago. Honestly, I think that many in the community view it as a joke.  People have said straight to me, "Go ahead, report me.  Nothing happens to me when you do anyway. I've been reported 50 times today already."  Whether this is true or not, I don't know.  But, I see them doing the same things again..and again.... and again..... so I guess that speaks.

 I would imagine it is difficult to sort through every .report that comes in to determine a true infraction, though.  As well as improper use of the feature....

I do not film every time I fly, though, I may start now, even though I really don't have the space to save them.  I pretty much figured that sending in film is just another waste to their day in HTC land.  Besides, I'm honestly, personally not offended by those things.... heard plenty of language in hockey locker rooms.  I can handle it.  I'm not the one to worry about, it comes down to the large numbers of children that drift through the MA's.  Mom hears some guy VOX'ing little johnny after he head-ons him... it just isn't going to be pretty.  I would argue that an "all adults only" arena would be proper, but I don't know if there is really enough interest there.  Adults should really be separated from children in games like these anyway.  They're probably worse than the kids.

In any case, you can hate me for whatever you wish... I'm just saying it how it is.  
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: MORAY37 on January 19, 2010, 12:38:05 PM
Hmmmm?   How can a comment, on a ch you aren't forced to tune, bother you in any way....unless you allow it to bother you?
Without hijacking this thread even more,

I do not have that option for vox or country channel sir.  As far as 200.... haven't been on there in years. (edit: last week was the first time in years, and I've learned it hasn't changed..so it's detuned again)

And, like I said, it doesn't bother me personally. I'm bothered by the numbers of "squeekers" that see very questionable behavior of a vulgar and sexual nature, every minute on either channel.  Adults and children should very well be separated in this game.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Bruv119 on January 19, 2010, 12:40:42 PM
moray, bud,  this is in regards to the DA and the un-invited griefers interrupting 1 vs 1 duels away from the furball area.

2 options are HTC deals with them or trusted players get kick abilities from that arena only.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: MORAY37 on January 19, 2010, 12:43:49 PM
moray, bud,  this is in regards to the DA and the un-invited griefers interrupting 1 vs 1 duels away from the furball area.

2 options are HTC deals with them or trusted players get kick abilities from that arena only.

Yeah I know, sorry for the hijack.

The only reason I brought that example in was I didn't think there was any viable way for enforceability of this DA policy.  I didn't mean to tangent.  :salute
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: grizz441 on January 19, 2010, 12:49:01 PM
There's probably not an enforceable method 'on the spot', but sending the film in I'm certain will propagate a swift and stern punishment for the griefer deterring him from any similar actions.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: SkyRock on January 19, 2010, 01:13:24 PM
Without hijacking this thread even more,

I do not have that option for vox or country channel sir.  As far as 200.... haven't been on there in years. (edit: last week was the first time in years, and I've learned it hasn't changed..so it's detuned again)

And, like I said, it doesn't bother me personally. I'm bothered by the numbers of "squeekers" that see very questionable behavior of a vulgar and sexual nature, every minute on either channel.  Adults and children should very well be separated in this game.
Sorry I read that wrong.  Yeah, I was a loudmouth for years, but twit, coward, or dweeb was as far as I went...even loudmouths can have a line in the sand.    :devil
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: hlbly on January 20, 2010, 12:05:45 AM
There's probably not an enforceable method 'on the spot', but sending the film in I'm certain will propagate a swift and stern punishment for the griefer deterring him from any similar actions.
Sorry Grizz I disagree with you here . It can work here as it did in AW . Usually the threat was enough . The knowledge that a Game op. was there was usually enough to make people modify their behavior . There was a guy that had somehow gotten ahold of a bunch of discs with 10 free hours on them . He would frag I believe was the term used , other friendly players . The only time he showed up was late at night when he was sure no op was present to boot him . Bruv I agree with you trusted players given this ability is the best answer . TC would be a perfect example of someone worthy of such trust .
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Delirium on January 20, 2010, 12:42:32 AM
AH could really use more moderators and a lot of this discussion would be a moot point.

I'm sure it has to be the worst job to volunteer for in AH, even if you do everything right, someone will still call HTC and complain about you.

Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: JunkyII on January 20, 2010, 01:26:51 AM
AH could really use more moderators and a lot of this discussion would be a moot point.

I'm sure it has to be the worst job to volunteer for in AH, even if you do everything right, someone will still call HTC and complain about you.


Isnt that why the mods now are secret? :noid
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: hlbly on January 20, 2010, 06:05:56 AM
AH could really use more moderators and a lot of this discussion would be a moot point.

I'm sure it has to be the worst job to volunteer for in AH, even if you do everything right, someone will still call HTC and complain about you.


I don't know del . With all the communication logged if you complained about someone doing their job you would have to feel like an idiot . If the mod was out of line then they didn't do everything right . I personally wouldn't be good at it . I just want to be one of the boys . The only thing I have ever called people on is language on range . My son is often in hearing range , some peoples rants just aren't G rated . Most guys usually stop and say sorry . The only thing people have done I have asked them to stop and was ignored is grief in the DA . In the past it wasn't against any rules , just against common decency . Junky , I don
t know if secret mods is the best . If you want to write alot of tickets you use unmarked cars . If you want to slow people down you use a black and white . Not my place to decide , but still my opinion . I would like to hear the reasoning for the secret mods , out of curiosity .
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: WMLute on January 20, 2010, 07:54:44 AM
All of the players that volunteer to help in AcesHigh do so out of the goodness of their hearts.

Trainers, CMs, AvA Staff, and Mods.

There is no "pay" for these players and many times it is a thankless task done solely for the love of the game and our community.  It can be rewarding at times.  I know I have many fond memories of my time as the Lead CM for SnapShots and King of the Hill.  Conversely I ALSO have many memories of untold hours of frustration.  I know I was burned out at the end and probably should have retired @ 3-6 months before I actually parted ways w/ the Special Events team.

If HTC actually paid someone to be a Moderator then I could see them being public figures with Mod type names that are apparent to all and would be quite visible.

The reality is the Moderators are just players trying their best to help and the LAST thing these players need is the grief they would get if their identities were known.

I personally wish there was a more visible way that disruptive players were censured.  I would  love a "Hall of Shame" type thing or to have Warnings, Mutes, or Ejections be visible to all as an Arena Message.

Granted I am somewhat petty and how HTC handles it is more of a "higher ground" type approach.
Title: Re: DA Arena Message
Post by: Changeup on January 20, 2010, 09:48:57 AM
IMHO, the most shocking thing about all of this is that someone actually has the nerve and desire to interrupt a 1 v 1 on a private field.  In Freudian terms...momma didnt play with them enough when they were kids and they need attention...a Hall of Shame may give them that very recognition.   I feel badly for them...but Im sure the game is a microcasm of society and there are plenty of testicularly challenged people out there who want someone to pay attention to them for deeds done, honerable or not.  If this is the case, the only real way to deal with them is the BOOT.  Eventually they won't come back OR their behavior will change if for no other reason than they ran out of cool CPID's.

V/r

Changeup