Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: maddafinga on January 17, 2010, 08:33:07 PM
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So Saturday I ran into Lazer in the arena and he promptly handed me my ass. Now I know I wasn't flying very well in general that night, making stupid mistakes and dying a lot in general, but he killed me way too easily. It was embarrassing even. Watching it a few times I think I have an ok idea of where I went wrong, but I'm looking for whatever help or advice here I can get on where I screwed up and what I might have been able to do differently. http://www.mediafire.com/?amdzc1trmgm Any help and/or info would be appreciated for sure.
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You had entirely too much speed at the merge to make that initial Immel tight, did you throttle back at all? I noticed you were doing over 400, Lazer kept his speed lower and was able to do the same with much less G and a tighter reversal.
Jamming the bandit doesn't work if the other guy is one step ahead of you and you're flying like the Hulk.
(no offense intended, Madda)
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i think you lost the fight at the top of your first immel when you went down instead of going up. you kept yanking your vector towards him and you can't win a scissors fight with excess speed. if you want to keep your speed then play the energy fight otherwise you have to know when and how hard to hit the brakes.
i don't think i fully answered your post. this is what i would have done.
when you see him come around after the merge and notice him turning more in the horizontal than vertical then he's blowing more E then you(setting himself up for the scissors). you would continue pull towards him but don't drop your nose down. when you pass each other again(approximately) pull an easy immel as you pass him. if he goes downwards then drop your nose and chase. if he goes horizontal then pull harder to close separation quickly. now you have a good E advantage so remember to cut your speed in the scissors. if he follows you up then you really have to judge his E and rope him if you can(but you couldn't) or if you don't have the E then level out and start turning horizontally(slightly nose up if the fight is still fast, but you're probably slow at this point so nose down to bring it around faster) which may result in a shot opportunity in the luftberry or him diving. the horizontal turn should be in the same direction he's turning, you don't want to turn and have to cross his nose.
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You had entirely too much speed at the merge to make that initial Immel tight, did you throttle back at all? I noticed you were doing over 400, Lazer kept his speed lower and was able to do the same with much less G and a tighter reversal.
Jamming the bandit doesn't work if the other guy is one step ahead of you and you're flying like the Hulk.
(no offense intended, Madda)
Heh, no offense at all Del!
I don't really remember if I cut throttle there or not. I was flying badly like I said, so everything seemed somewhat off for me. I think I had planned on doing a double immel but then changed after I saw him pull what looked fairly tight at the merge. I'm thinking I should have stuck with the double and not tried to stick so close and get to scissoring that quickly. I want to look at it again later though and see if there's another place I might have turned it around even after the bad merge.
Thanks for the comments guys!
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Heya Madda, not flying the k-4 anymore? :D
It definitely sounded like you pulled off the throttle right before the merge but he got the turn going a little sooner. With the excess speed it may have been easier to extend a little before turning in, either in a low g flat turn or some sort of pitchback. Hard to say sometimes but I believe with a bit of seperation and a slower speed you could force a remerge and would have been in good shape.
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You had entirely too much speed at the merge to make that initial Immel tight, did you throttle back at all? I noticed you were doing over 400, Lazer kept his speed lower and was able to do the same with much less G and a tighter reversal.
Right when they cross paths, madda is doing 385mph, and lazer is doing 325mph.
For my part, if I'm confident I have a big energy advantage going into a merge, I'm unlikely to throttle back. I prefer to use it to position myself above my opponent.
i think you lost the fight at the top of your first immel when you went down instead of going up.
Yup. The nose low move after the first immel cut a huge radius around your opponent.
It definitely sounded like you pulled off the throttle right before the merge
It's impossible to tell precisely from the engine sound in film. Frequently the difference between WEP and MIL sounds like full power vs idle.
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Right when they cross paths, madda is doing 385mph, and lazer is doing 325mph.
That is a huge difference, especially in the Ki61 and that difference is what cost him the fight. If hadn't of attempted to Immel, his best bet would of been to go in a low G climb to attempt to rope or extend out to reset the fight.
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It's hard for me to look at a film when someone is using trackir since I can't follow your views. So on the assumption you've got him in sight the entire fight...
1) You picked the wrong 38. So while I can say "you should have done this"...he would have "done that" and the fight would play out differently.
So looking at the film...
2) at :50 with him 1.5 out your in either perfect position or your a dead man walking and you just don't know. You've clearly got the under but you don't know relative E state. If the 38 is fast and high he can seize the vertical and you've got no ability to control the fight. Since you have the under I'm going to open with a low G vertical "read and react". If he shows me he's going vertical then I'll either look to cut into him or try and top him out based on how it feels. I got the sense that you came off the gas and got aggressive without regard to what you saw. In effect you flew an aggressive angles merge from a +E state.
3) at :51 you come of the gas (look at drop in manifold) and move out of plane to him. It's to late to set a hook and a bit early for a lead turn and your giving up E and position. If he is fast and elects to go vertical right here your in bad shape. So to me you jumped the gun and gave up a chance to read him and gave him control of the fight in the "read and react" sense. If this was in a training setting I'd stop it right there and ask what your thinking.
Freezing the film again at :54 look for lazer as he's even with your cockpit. Look at relative position and lift vector. He's not taken any angles, in fact he's rolled his lift vector off of yours and (IMO) is assessing you and waiting for you to show your cards. He knows he has an exploitable advantage and is just waiting for you to tell him what it is.
If you go to about 58 seconds you see the beginning of the remerge. In effect Laser denied the merge in the sense he wasn't aggressive (he has no lead turn at all) and is flying to the "re-merge". Look at the view from his cockpit at :58 seconds. He's in out of plane lag with a full profile view of you in the "under" position where he can build E and attack or defend and easily deny you any angular advantage. If we go to your cockpit view your lift vector is pointing to the ground and your in out of plane lead (IMO). About the worst combination you can have. Your lift vector orientation denies you any shot window and sacrifices angles while creating an "E trap" that forces an overshoot with no ability to escape unless you act right at that point.
In effect the fights over right here. This is just a case of running into a sushi chef. He flew a wonderful read and react -E opener and flew to the 2nd merge from the start. As much as you "did stuff wrong" he did everything right.
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After I posted that I contemplated what I'd do at the :58 second mark. We all run into this in the MA (and DA) where the other guy has countered what ever we were thinking. The faster you realize that "your dog won't hunt" the better off you are moving forward. At the :58 sec mark I know my dog isn't hunting...so...
1) I can recognize that he has a positional advantage having secured the under. I've got an idea that I was +E but am now less so. My options (for me) are to either reset by rolling my lift vector to in plane lag...basically I want my nose under him and my intent is to fly thru the merge just like he did and then pull into a late low G zoom...I want to force him to fly the long way around into trailing position and I can assess my E state...If -E I'll low yoyo back into him looking to fly to the next "remerge" in the under...if +E I'll go truly vertical for the rope.
2) I can attempt to "go sushi" by cross controlling the plane and forcing my nose left and horizontally in plane. I'm looking to skid so I push the 38 off of my (Right) wing tip while flattening out my path to remove the vertical "hook" while creating as much horizontal separation as possible. At this point I've moved my lift vector from lead to lag and reoriented it skyward. In effect I've done all I can to minimize his movement into my "donut hole" while freezing my position in the fight to gain angles and scrub E...now I can roll back into in plane lag and pull thru to out of plane lead looking to start a rolling scissor fight. If you look at just about any of my films this is normally what I'll do in some manner...basically take a bad situation and get it into some type of aggressive scissors type action....
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That is a huge difference, especially in the Ki61 and that difference is what cost him the fight. If hadn't of attempted to Immel, his best bet would of been to go in a low G climb to attempt to rope or extend out to reset the fight.
Agreed, though I still think a big mistake was when he went nose low.
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One other thing to note is laser is using what I call a "mirror" reverse (no clue what proper nomenclature is). Basically when you think your flying -E you mirror the bogies hi yoyo with a low yoyo looking to create an under on the ensuing "remerge". To some degree this clip illustrates this a bit. i'm working with black70 on some basic "dueling" concepts as transfered to the MA...
http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/film60_0314.ahf (http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/film60_0314.ahf)
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Heya Madda, not flying the k-4 anymore? :D
It definitely sounded like you pulled off the throttle right before the merge but he got the turn going a little sooner. With the excess speed it may have been easier to extend a little before turning in, either in a low g flat turn or some sort of pitchback. Hard to say sometimes but I believe with a bit of seperation and a slower speed you could force a remerge and would have been in good shape.
Yeah I'm still flying it, but there weren't many fights at first that night and I was flying generally poorly so I was screwing around with my second favorite plane.
I am complete agreement with everyone here that going nose low was where I went wrong. I had planned to go double immel after that short dive into him, but for some reason abandoned that idea.
Humble, lots of good info there and since I can't watch the film of it just now I'll have to re-watch it later tonight and digest a little better what you're saying. Great breakdown though, and much thanks. I did have him in view pretty much the whole time so losing sight wasn't a problem at all, though my tactics certainly were. I'm usually not so bad that I can't give even good sticks a pretty good fight, though I'll almost certainly lose. Just that night I was off a bit and lazer just really handed it to me in what seemed to me to be an effortless fashion. I thought I'd be able to turn it into an good learning experience for myself, so input like you're giving me is super helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks to all you guys for your input. I've got a lot of thinking and film watching to do on this.
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madda I feel your pain :O
From my perspective the single most important thing to realize is that 90%+ of the people in the game can't execute a read and react merge with even minimum efficiency. So if we have a real player base of 5000 then only 500 or so are even in that league. Out of those 500 we get down to a few hundred "duelers". Out of those only a select few make everyones "top prettythang whuppers" list and you ran into one of them. Forget the "knife in a gun fight" you brought a slingshot to a nuclear exchange. To me the real value in this clip is in watching the other guy. He's like Kurt Warner or Brett Farve looking over a defense. He doesn't much care what you do, he just needs to identify it.
Can you beat a guy like that....sure you can...some of the time. So the key here is learning to be deceptive in what you show and nurture your understanding of what to look for and then incorporate some type of "option route" in your game so you can begin to develop your own version of the hot read....then suffer years of misery mumbling "missed it by that much" as they still smack you around most of the time. :salute
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Hey madda one of the problems i have is understanding what is actually going on and reacting or acting accordingly.
I have been in that exact postions many times. You would laugh if you saw one of my films. That could have been me in your cockpit.
What i found was i was turning he was turning yet I assumed he is out turning me. When it is only partially true. By turning when the other guy has angles you are doing half the work for him. By placing yourself in front of his gunsights. If i can identify this I will take it to more of an E fight and try to get a reset. Then go back to angles. + once Del or lazer get behind you its pretty much over for me.
Never have won a fight against either one of them yet. But ill keep trying. What is funny to me is when i look at the films and it looks like im doing all the work and they are just waiting for the solution. Some acm that works on 90% of the MA is just a suicide move against a pilot that good.
Plus it is dark or low light and I always fly poorly when i have to struggle to see.
<S> Madda. Wish I could help more but struggling with the same exact issues.
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So Saturday I ran into Lazer in the arena and he promptly handed me my ass. Now I know I wasn't flying very well in general that night, making stupid mistakes and dying a lot in general, but he killed me way too easily. It was embarrassing even. Watching it a few times I think I have an ok idea of where I went wrong, but I'm looking for whatever help or advice here I can get on where I screwed up and what I might have been able to do differently. http://www.mediafire.com/?amdzc1trmgm Any help and/or info would be appreciated for sure.
i'm at work, and can't look at the film now......but one thing i can suggest........when you're fighting a guy like lazerr........ask him. he's one of the guys that likes a good fight, and i think would be glad to offer advice. :aok
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humble.........you mentioned something in your first response that has always confused me....and killed my cartoon pile-it.
you mentioned that lazer turned his lift vector away from the con. why? when guys do this to me, i eventually end up dead. when i feel the need to do it, i eventually end up dead.
crowding the red guy seems to work best for me.
thanks!
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I'm not going to pretend I know what was going thru the guys mind at that moment...after all nobody ever buts me on any of those lists :D
Speaking in more general terms as goes your lift vector so do you. Any time your lift vector is pointing to some flavor of "up" your maintaining or storing E and maximzing your potential to convert your current E to stored E with minimal need to manipulate your control surface. So when I look at the merge from madda's perspective what I see is lazer coming in with a somewhat downward slope. As soon as madda makes his move you see lazer flatten out and then actually mirror by turning slightly away...so at the "cross he's slightly high and has rolled to a parallel track or even slightly away...then goes down as madda goes up and mirrors his move. To me the question is simple. Are you better in out of plane lag (defensive or neutral) or in plane lead (aggressive angles)? The answer is never ending and complex. There are subtleties beyond my grasp (or I'd be better) but what I "teach" is that it's better to be in out of plane lag any time your plane is at a performance or positional disadvantage and in plane when you can either exploit a performance or positional advantage...
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Madda the main thing I see is that you're in a better turning A/C but when you start to gain angles you reverse into lazer's guns. Once you commit to a turn don't reverse unless you have a reason to.
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I'm sorry but I don't see any place were madda ever had any angles. He's toast at :58 seconds or so the moment he doesn't look to square up and dive thru the remerge. Once he commits to that merge lazer is on him like white on rice. I think he flew the defense very well but got pushed beyond his ability to control the plane on the edge...but at no point beyond the :58 second mark does he (IMO) have any chance at all.
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heya Josh ( madda ),
I see alot have replyed with some good info.....
at the 1st merge, there is no seperation, even though madda gains the low side, the seperation is Nil, this causes the Wide turn by madda(Ki-61) even though he does nearly a true Immelman/loop to Lazer's Pitchback which is considerably tighter and allows Lazer to gain the behind 3/9 line advantage...... I would not say going nose low after the 1st reversal/2nd merge was an absolute bad idea...... with the speed madda had, he might of had other options
if he goes up instead of down at this point, Lazer is still slower and is still going to be inside his turn or climb and prob would have got guns on him sooner
As for madda gaining the angles advantage, the opportunity was there......madda just didn't capitalize on it/or didn't recognize the opportunity
Lazer rolls away at 01:19/01:43 and is heading nose low doing 152 mph, while madda is hdg nose low (away from Lazer ) doing 195 mph........ madda at this point has regained positional advantage right here if he just went into a climb but instead rolls back into another pass allowing Lazer to keep behind madda's 3/9 line ( well basically totally behind him / high 6 )
madda simply failed to see the door open for him, or he wanted to mix it up........ either or .........
also, the 2nd bogey didn't help matters any ( the Hurri ) with its attempted pass on madda......... that just clouded the mental picture even more for madda
for nearly the whole fight madda is most times significantly faster, so any turning he does, is going to be a heck of alot wider... where as Lazer is flying much slower against the ki-61 and can turn inside the ki-61s turn everytime......
Lazer is a Great Stick, is hard to beat verses prob 80 or 90 % of the rest of the players...... but the biggest mistake I see is not knowing or not using the Ki-61's Combat Flight envelope........ or in other words flying it between Instantaneous turn speed to Sustained turn speed...... you was well above the Corner speed/instantaneous turnspeed of the Ki-61 for much of the fight..... this hurt you more than anything in my opinion....
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Lots of good info and stuff to study in this thread.
To tell you the truth TC, I don't know any of the 61s info at all, I just like flying it. I usually do fairly well in it, but sometimes I'm just off and get my butt handed to me. I suspect that Lazer would have done that regardless but much of the time I'd have put up a much better fight than that. I tried to come back and fight him in the K4 that I fly most of the time, but by then the field was starting to be capped and I eventually had to move away from it.
I think I've done more studying of this film than I have in a good while. I'm going to need to study it some more and read your breakdown of it as I go. I think what mostly killed me was having a cloudy picture going in of how I wanted to fight the fight. I dove to get speed thinking of double immel, but then didn't do that and instead while still too fast tried to get in too close and just lost it all.
I'll watch it carefully again later today, and study what you've said here and once again and study one more time what Snaphook said too. Thanks for your help!
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TC,
I'm curious in the sense that I always feel that if I get trapped into the "over" spot on the remerge I'm at a significant disadvantage if I accept the rolling scissor style engagement. Yes I can occasionally get lucky or pull some pilot stiff out but the better the opponent the less realistic my chances. As long as the other guy is managing his views well and has the advantage of lower speed, proper lift vector orientation and positional control he can counter faster then I can cover ground since he's really just moving his lift vector vs flying much of an arc. When I look at the clip from madda's perspective I just don't see a winning position beyond a cross control type fly thru the shot deal. I'm always leary (maybe to much so) of trying to extend up and away from a 38 since even at ranges of 600-800+ I seem to lose things I need...have to look at it again tonight...
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TC,
I'm curious in the sense that I always feel that if I get trapped into the "over" spot on the remerge I'm at a significant disadvantage if I accept the rolling scissor style engagement. Yes I can occasionally get lucky or pull some pilot stiff out but the better the opponent the less realistic my chances. As long as the other guy is managing his views well and has the advantage of lower speed, proper lift vector orientation and positional control he can counter faster then I can cover ground since he's really just moving his lift vector vs flying much of an arc. When I look at the clip from madda's perspective I just don't see a winning position beyond a cross control type fly thru the shot deal. I'm always leary (maybe to much so) of trying to extend up and away from a 38 since even at ranges of 600-800+ I seem to lose things I need...have to look at it again tonight...
Rgr humble,
when looking from the cockpit of madda at the time in the film I posted 1:18/1:19 area........ I noticed Lazer had rolled his lift vector away
( he in my opinion did this because he thought he could obtain a guns solution right before he rolled away, he is firing but I did not see any hits on this try, and I am thinking Lazer noticed he was pulling away )...
I then switched to outside fixed postion to get a better view of it...... noticing Lazer was at this exact point in time giving up position or opening the door......
madda from my perspective was in a very shallow nose low postion with wings level. Lazer could not even see what madda was doing or gonna do at this point in time because he is showing his underside to madda....... and would have to roll nearly 315 degrees then pull up to follow, had madda just pulled back on the stick and climbed....... had madda of done that he would have "regained" the advantage being both faster and have the alt advantage as well........ that is my take on it from that point......... if madda had capitalized on the opportunity....
edit: well I am discounting the hurri that is around 600/700 behind madda and lazer coming up. but still madda is faster than both of em around 1:20/1:21 right before he decides to roll back in and right into /across Lazer's flight path........
hence. I posted earlier that having that hurri show up, did not help matters for madda........ on dealing with the P38.....
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cc,
I'm always trying to learn where the limits are. Anytime I find the other guy is getting shot windows from the upper position vs me being able to pull up and in to deny the shot window I feel like I'm locked into an all or nothing death match since I invariably feel that 1st to break off (without actually forcing an overshoot of the 3/9 line) gives to good a shot window. So I find I push my "go/no go" decision point back earlier in the fight. At the point in the fight you describe I think I'd already have been locked into an all or nothing mind set since he's pummeling me coming back off the top...
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There is a theory of mine that I've been sticking with. That theory is the first one to break low to their opponent (nose low) is normally putting themselves at a disadvantage in an equal alt merge. As soon as mada rolled nose low and pulled down on second merge, lazer just rolled on top of him, fight was lost at 1:04. Albeit extension was still possible.
:salute
BigRat
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Hey there madda...I have not seen the film..however from what is said about your speed...IMO you are way too fast to contemplate a turn fight....for me anything over 300 is a time to tempt the con into a tasty morsel...thus bleeding his speed a little more till I am at what I consider the KI's best fighting speed... I find that if I go trying for angles over 300 I am dead...in some cases you are able to srcub your speed fast enough if you commit to a turn fight with a lot of rudder and aggressive elevator input.....but against a person like lazer it is very difficult..
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i'm not sure if this helps or not......but i've noticed that about 1/2 of the time, if i have a co-alt co-e merge, and i manage to get myself above the bogie, and maintain that position overall, regardless of what it is, i can eventually kill it.
it's the ones that don't let me do this that kill me rather quickly.
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There is a theory of mine that I've been sticking with. That theory is the first one to break low to their opponent (nose low) is normally putting themselves at a disadvantage in an equal alt merge. As soon as mada rolled nose low and pulled down on second merge, lazer just rolled on top of him, fight was lost at 1:04. Albeit extension was still possible.
:salute
BigRat
I put it at :58 in the sense that lazer had him "mirrored" with he (lazer) at the bottom of a low yoyo and madda up high. Had he blown thru the remerge he can reset but the moment he continues to the merge he's pushing a bad situation...so if 1:04 is the point of no return on denying the remerge that would sync up with my thoughts...
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Albeit extension was still possible.
:salute
BigRat
There is not much a Ki61 can extend from...not being a smart arse...just saying
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I think we're both reading it as he could drive thru the merge and force lazer to fly the long way around... similar to what TC is commenting on at a point later in the fight...he can develop enough E to recapture an advanateg if lazer pursues him vs also continuing to climb out...
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There is a theory of mine that I've been sticking with. That theory is the first one to break low to their opponent (nose low) is normally putting themselves at a disadvantage in an equal alt merge.
here's my theory of how I think about dogfighting ;)
I always and probably never will stop with the attitude that I can beat anything I come up against, I am positive in my mind that I am going to be the victor in every incounter ( that means 1 vs 1 or 2 on me) I don't even rattle much if I hear a ping or 2 and don't freak about it, this thought with constant practice makes me fly better. I am not saying I am any better than the next guy here, but in my mind in a dogfight I am confident I can beat the opponent wether I do or don't. If I don't I take it as a grain of salt ( with a learning experience built in ) and try again.
although times have changed for me. physically is hard to keep that type of mental thought process up anymore..... when in the game. but I still try to fly thinking this way....
There is not much a Ki61 can extend from...not being a smart arse...just saying
I have not seen the film..
at the time in the film 1:18/1:19 area.......... he had the speed advantage and the opportunity to do just that...... extend, grab alt, and reset the fight or least hold the higher ground......
at time 1:16 thru 1:19 while madda hears Lazer firing at him but is not connecting, he is not taking any hits........ why would he feel like he is being pummeled? he looks back.. what does he see? he might see the P38's belly and nose pointing away from him, but he quickly picks up the Hurri coming in on him, maybe madda does not pick up on the E - read of the Hurri. thinks he is fast? perhaps... so he rolls back in, then finds himself right back infront of Lazer's guns.....
key thing about reviewing films of already flown fights is. could have, would have, should have........ we can review them and only tell what we feel is where someone messes up, or tell someone what we "think" they should have done..... it is real easy to slow the fight down , stop the fight, back it up when viewing the film....... is like you are Father Time and can control it all.... but for the 2 people in the film..... they only have milliseconds to think, rethink, decipher, decide, execute, counter...etc.......
so we film our fights. we review our films, we learn from our reviews....... practice, practice, practice..... :joystick:
what I do enjoy from seeing peoples replys to reviewing a film of someone else........ is it lets me see a glimpse of what they themselves are thinking ( the Reviewer posting his thoughts ), for alot of the older better sticks... I set and wonder how many of them have lurked, soaking up the posts of what people respond with , and how that person goes about a particular encounter....... hmm..... :headscratch:
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fair enough...next time I will watch before I comment.
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oh I am not picking on you Tongs, I fully understand your comment about the ki61 extending from anything :)
just in this film there was a possibility........
just like I used a word from one of humble's replys......does not mean I was picking on him or calling him out in regards to the word...... I just liked the way the word sounded
:salute
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To learn you need to voice your opinion openly and to the best of your ability to articulate. The value of equally (or more) insightful comments the present a contrasting view offer the ability to expand your understanding. Like TC I enter every fight with the certainly that I will prevail. In my case that extends to a firm belief that ACM trumps plane type. I can honestly say that I haven't lost a fight in an SBD or A-20 that I didn't feel I had a chance somewhere and blew it. To me this results in a constant refining of -E ACM and the drive to push the "all in" earlier and earlier in a fight while I have maximum parity. So I'll look at this type of fight and see an awful lot early on...sometimes at the expense of seeing alternative options later in the encounter. Most of us are always learning and any time you muzzle yourself you inhibit the process...
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at time 1:16 thru 1:19 while madda hears Lazer firing at him but is not connecting, he is not taking any hits........ why would he feel like he is being pummeled? he looks back.. what does he see? he might see the P38's belly and nose pointing away from him, but he quickly picks up the Hurri coming in on him, maybe madda does not pick up on the E - read of the Hurri. thinks he is fast? perhaps... so he rolls back in, then finds himself right back infront of Lazer's guns.....
I wasn't worried about the missed shots at all actually. I was more worried about trying to get a good position and to not set myself up for the Hurri. At that point I knew I was pretty screwed and was hoping to get slow.
I try to set up barrel roll defense style reversals a lot in the MA and bait guys into diving on me and sort of trick them into a fight before they have a chance to run fairly frequently. Consequently I get shot at a lot, and it doesn't really bother me at all. I also rope people in the K4 a lot, and many times they shoot before the stall out of desperation, I'm just used to it I think.
I like that 61 a lot and feel good flying it most of the time, though it's not my main ride. Lately though everything has just felt a bit off, which is probably why ended up with this thread. It's good though, all this and the great commentary have lead me to analyzing it all a lot more than I have been lately which hopefully will set me up to work a bit smarter and get back on track to improvement again.
As a side note, I believe I've fought Tongs a few times in the ma right? A couple of times in KI61s even, unless I'm thinking of someone else perhaps?
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Aye madda you have....I was going to say that but I thought I'd had my knukles rapped by the teacher.... :D
I still have a laugh at that run you had in the Ki...that was too funny to watch.....
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I was laughing my bellybutton off at the time myself, that was good fun right there!
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Madda, I hope you don't mind me bumping the thread... It's just that the title suits my post so I figured I'd continue it.
Was dueling StuVinyl in the DA earlier this evening and he waxed me every round. However, this one fight in particular I felt as though I nearly had it - but one mistake and it was over.
About 3:30 in, we enter a rolling scissors that seemingly goes my way for a min and a half. I was trying to use the torque to snap over quickly at each roll but on the last one I lost control and fell through his flight path.
http://www.4shared.com/file/208474028/53c22510/studuel2.html
Hoping to receive a bit of criticism on:
1) My control of the plane throughout.
2) My decision making.
Striving to get better in both categories so any comments/criticism will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Cursed
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You can edit your film so it starts at the merge and cut it almost in half.
Lose the snap roll. It isn't doing anything for you.
Use the trail feature in AH Film and look at your helix. Remember the tighter helix wins a rolling scissors.
You start even for a couple turns then your higher yoyo at 3:25 gets you behind his 3/9 line.
You roll left and he breaks left and you get pretty even again.
You keep your lift vector behind him and work back into position but the throttle cut at the top of the roller is killing your maneuvering speed.
At 4:20 you put your lift vector in front of your target, notice how it puts you out front, and that's where you lost the fight.
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Madda, I hope you don't mind me bumping the thread... It's just that the title suits my post so I figured I'd continue it.
Was dueling StuVinyl in the DA earlier this evening and he waxed me every round. However, this one fight in particular I felt as though I nearly had it - but one mistake and it was over.
About 3:30 in, we enter a rolling scissors that seemingly goes my way for a min and a half. I was trying to use the torque to snap over quickly at each roll but on the last one I lost control and fell through his flight path.
http://www.4shared.com/file/208474028/53c22510/studuel2.html
Hoping to receive a bit of criticism on:
1) My control of the plane throughout.
2) My decision making.
Striving to get better in both categories so any comments/criticism will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Cursed
Hey I don't mind at all Q, er Cursed...
I'm glad to see any kind of an acm discussion and to see fights picked apart in detail. I'm not going to be able to watch it tonight, but I'll check it out tomorrow night. I won't be able to add much, as I'm working toward getting better myself, and I'm not really that good yet. I might be able to give you something though.
I will say that I absolutely trust FLS, I know and fly with him all the time in the MA and the TA duking it out, and he's good for sure. Check out his input...
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Wasn't able to watch this from your perspective as it won't let me use recorded views. (trackir?) Not much your doing wrong I would've went tighter on the merge you seem hesitate there, and what FLS says about the throttle is true. As a general rule the less power your plane has the less throttle you should use, while it may seem to help gain angles at the start the longer the fight goes on your more likely to lose airspeed and fall behind in the scissors.
With 109s k4 needs the most throttle work, g14 slightly less, g6 & g2 are about the same f4 less again e4 virtually not at all, you get the idea, a good indicator in a rolling scissors of how close to the edge you are in 109s is a small 'drop' at the end of the downstroke. This means your letting off to much throttle its easy to recover from but lets you know to add slightly more throttle on the next rolling scissor. Its a good pointer for keeping your plane on the edge of the envelope.
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Pervert I use padlock to watch films without saved views. It doesn't tell me where the pilot was looking but it shows me what he was likely to see with TrackIR.
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it's better to be in out of plane lag any time your plane is at a performance or positional disadvantage and in plane when you can either exploit a performance or positional advantage...
great basic rule :aok
edit: out of interest Madda why merge with him at all? you had a big E advantage at the start, instead of burning most of it off why not just BnZ/E-fight him?
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great basic rule :aok
edit: out of interest Madda why merge with him at all? you had a big E advantage at the start, instead of burning most of it off why not just BnZ/E-fight him?
Less fun for me that way.
I started to try an e fight, my plan was to double immel and work from above, but I changed my mind halfway through. The area was getting more and more crowded with red and I figured I'd die anyway, and I'd much rather die mixing it up than just being eventually caught by a group or a latecomer.
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fair enuf :)
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Yes, sorry for not having recorded views... I switched to TrackIR a while back.
I get what both of you are saying - I believe my tendencies stem from frequently flying the G14 and K4 where there is usually no shortage of power... I think my fighting style is a bit biased too as I prefer not to get into nose-to-tail fights or lengthy rolling scissors where it takes a few revolutions to come around on the bandit's six... I get impatient and try reversing the turn to force a new merge and in the scissor I go hard for lead angles over the top. Believe it or not, the last bit has worked for me on many occasions but I agree, I lose my edge little by little. I'm gonna work to improve that bit.
I watched my film over with your suggestions FLS... I see my mistake as you pointed out. I believe it was a result of, as you said, running out of maneuvering speed.
Pervert - I wanted to mirror the merge but I failed to lean in as quickly as I should have, I tend to watch out my six view sometimes to see where the other guy turns and react to it... Guess I should make my mind up before we cross. :)
Thanks fellas.
Cursed
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I tend to watch out my six view sometimes to see where the other guy turns and react to it... Guess I should make my mind up before we cross. :)
Thanks fellas.
Cursed
Cursed,
Common problem I run into often with students. They wait to see what I am doing before they react to my merge. By the time their plane reacts I'm normally half way around my turn/immelman/sliceback/ what have ya. When you cross your enemy's 3-9 line you should already have a plan of action and it should be in motion at that point. The trick is not to give away your move to early or start it too late.
:salute
BigRat