Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MadHatter on January 27, 2010, 01:02:58 AM
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Alright, it's Titanic Tuesday, so the Pogues did what they do every Tuesday and that's host a strat run. So we gather up about 17 or so buff drivers and hit the sky. On the 1st run we knocked the city down to 11% and all the other strats down to about 50%. Well we figured that since we have the city pretty well demolished we'll go do it again and knocked it the rest of the way down. Halfway there, the outlying strats are already at 100%, city is still 11%. So we split forces again and hit the strats...again. Here's where it gets weird. Swoops and I go in and hit the remaining city blocks on the first pass. City is now at 3%. We noticed that even tho we hit dead center (with 500's) some blocks just refuse to go boom. Turn, box around to the north, come at it again. We hit every standing structure, still no boom, except 1 block. City is at 2%. We hit every single block. Where's the other 2%? There are 2 flak towers inside the Industrial Center. Are they it? If so, does it take the same amount of ords to drop them as it does the HQ? (36k) With no flak, no resistance, and buff drivers able to drive a nail at 30K it would take a minimum of 6 B-17's loaded with 250's to destroy the Industrial Center. If you take in account the flak towers (if they are HQ strength) It would take 12 B-17's just for them (loaded with 1k's) or 6 Lancs. What is it going to take to finish this city off?
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the strat system is like that. Buff runs are taking longer and longer yet the strat seems to only stay down 30minutes, even if you get the city below 50% those outlying strats rebuild very fast. I just dont understand it, it doesnt follow the rules (of the game) at all.
PS im pretty certain that the flaktowers do not count.
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There are a lot of buff divers. If strats stay down what will they bomb.
Sounds like everyone gets a chance the way it is setup now.
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At the old strats eack flak counted for 1%. I haven't even seen the new strats/city yet.
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Skuzzy posted this morning that they are in the process of repairing the MA terrains.
IF this was a repaired terrain, load it off-line and type in the following command:
.det F01CIT 2
This will detonate all the city buildings at the strat city. You'll note that the flack towers are not CIT buildings, and that the only buildings that are part of the city are the multi-story urban and industrial buildings, not the (mostly) single story suburban blocks.
.restore F01CIT will repair them.
Hope this helps.
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Skuzzy posted this morning that they are in the process of repairing the MA terrains.
Ok that would make sense, the terrain might not have been repaired then. Also explains why some blocks wouldn't detonate. I am having a bit of trouble with the command tho. I probably need to mess with the offline a bit more tho.
As for everyone getting their chance, the only time I see a strat get hit is when we host a mission. At least on the Rook side. Either way, it seems to me that most pilots are worried about their score versus taking bases and causing a reset. I've been chewed out for bombing a VH at an airfield because we had GV's camping the spawn. I've also been chewed out for wasting my time bombing the strat. I guess to each their own, but my guys fly the MA for a reason. If we just want to fight we'll go to the DA, but if we're in the MA, you can bet we're going after targets. Sorry for the bit of a rant, but the strats represent a potentially valuable target. I aint wasting my time.
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Flak over strat is deadly.
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Moral of the story, the strat ain't all that :D
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Ok that would make sense, the terrain might not have been repaired then. Also explains why some blocks wouldn't detonate. I am having a bit of trouble with the command tho. I probably need to mess with the offline a bit more tho.
As for everyone getting their chance, the only time I see a strat get hit is when we host a mission. At least on the Rook side. Either way, it seems to me that most pilots are worried about their score versus taking bases and causing a reset. I've been chewed out for bombing a VH at an airfield because we had GV's camping the spawn. I've also been chewed out for wasting my time bombing the strat. I guess to each their own, but my guys fly the MA for a reason. If we just want to fight we'll go to the DA, but if we're in the MA, you can bet we're going after targets. Sorry for the bit of a rant, but the strats represent a potentially valuable target. I aint wasting my time.
Some folks play the game to have fun.
You rant because folks rant because they don't like what your doing. :D That there is funny stuff I tell ya!
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Some folks play the game to have fun.
You rant because folks rant because they don't like what your doing. :D That there is funny stuff I tell ya!
Yea, kind of a stupid rant, sorry. It just pisses me off to do something to help another, and I'm the bad guy for it. As for the flak, haven't noticed it at 30k. I play because I'm competitive. As a buff driver, personally I believe my job is to make things easier for everyone else by removing targets. Besides a strat run is a hell of alot of fun. Our escorts always end up with a good amount of kills and it's fun to see that many people working together. I'd just like to see a reward for that cooperation.
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30k in Buffs? :rofl :rofl :rofl
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30k in Buffs? :rofl :rofl :rofl
30K for some of us is routine for that kind of mission.
We meet the Rooks up there, too.
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Ok that would make sense, the terrain might not have been repaired then. Also explains why some blocks wouldn't detonate. I am having a bit of trouble with the command tho. I probably need to mess with the offline a bit more tho.
Opps, I'm usually using that command on fields instead of country objects.
.det C0#CIT n
Where '#' is the owning country and 'n' is the country that destroyed it.
.det C01CIT 2 destroys all the Bish city objects.
Look at the Bish city when you use it.
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30k in Buffs? :rofl :rofl :rofl
They like that alt.... nothing historic or anything. They just like the challenge of conserving fuel.
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They like that alt.... nothing historic or anything. They just like the challenge of conserving fuel.
No it's so bomber pilots can point down at the silly furballers and snicker. :D
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They like that alt.... nothing historic or anything. They just like the challenge of conserving fuel.
Actually, you're not that far off. We try to take the minimum amount of fuel possible. It is more of a challenge. The other challenge is getting 20-30 buff drivers (all from different squadrons) to that altitude in something that resembles a formation. That's alot harder then it sounds (think herding cats sometimes).
Every single time we up these runs, I always hear someone say "This is the highest I've ever been". If these runs weren't fun, didn't pose any challenge whatsoever, we wouldn't have LCA join us. We wouldn't have the Claim Jumpers, the Death Dealers, the Sky Knights, or the Gamblers winging up with us. We've always invited the new players in, it's a great way for them to learn.
For me it's like long range shooting. I've hit a quarter grouping at 600 yards. It took me an hour to do that. I only fired 3 shots. To spend so much time in preparation for one single moment, and succeed, that makes it worth it. Laugh all you want Masher, but I'm still going to climb out, and yes, like Flayed said, I'm going to point and laugh.
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For the "strat runs", it's about padding Bomber stats and nothing else. :aok To even mention squads who routinely do NOE missions with 5+ Lanc formations at an undefended base, please spare us.
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For the "strat runs", it's about padding Bomber stats and nothing else.
Respectfully disagree, sir. Some of us don't play enough to care about something as trivial as score or rank. I for one am in it for my definition of fun that floats my boat.
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Respectfully disagree, sir. Some of us don't play enough to care about something as trivial as score or rank. I for one am in it for my definition of fun that floats my boat.
I, honestly, couldn't give a rat's rear end about stats or bomber perks. Like Thndregg said, we run these missions to have fun. To me getting swarmed by fighters while trying to pull off the drop is fun. It's challenging. That and whenever we run across Thndregg's boys, the buff on buff fighting is fun as hell too. Speaking of which, Thndregg, what are we standing at now? 2 and 2?
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I love to bomb, always have. I just want it to count for the time invested. The damage should hurt the enemy so that he will come defend the target. Everyone plays their own game, never apologize for how you play it.
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I love to bomb, always have. I just want it to count for the time invested. The damage should hurt the enemy so that he will come defend the target. Everyone plays their own game, never apologize for how you play it.
And that's completely understandable. From what I read on the forums about strat runs is that no one has been able to knock out the city or a factory yet. (least not with the new system) From reading what HTC has posted on the website my understanding is if you destroy the city (take it down to 0%) it will be down for 3 hours. The factories require the city to rebuild, so if you completely destroy a factory at the same time, it would have to wait till the city regenerates before it could, then it would take 3 hours for the factory to rebuild. For example, destroy the city and the radar facility at the same time. That would mean that any radar that is destroyed at the fields would have to wait until that 6 hour window closes before it could be repaired. Same with the ords, troops, fuel and ack. But that is based on one assumption, that the clock for the factories doesn't start to run until the city is regenerated. Does anyone have a definite answer on this? Either way, it is possible to completely strangle a country for at least 3 hours, possibly 6 if it was done right. And that, is one of the main reasons why the Pogues run these missions. As for the reason why others choose to fly with us, that's their call. Stat padding, perks, whatever, to me it means there is more bombs to be put on target.
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I, honestly, couldn't give a rat's rear end about stats or bomber perks. Like Thndregg said, we run these missions to have fun. To me getting swarmed by fighters while trying to pull off the drop is fun. It's challenging. That and whenever we run across Thndregg's boys, the buff on buff fighting is fun as hell too. Speaking of which, Thndregg, what are we standing at now? 2 and 2?
getting "swarmed" by fighters at 30K?????????? :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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getting "swarmed" by fighters at 30K?????????? :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Exactly, they milk run because of the lack of "swarming fighters".
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getting "swarmed" by fighters at 30K?????????? :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
No kidding.
Why not just do it off line? Same fun filled bombing....Same resistance from fighters. ;)
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No kidding.
Why not just do it off line? Same fun filled bombing....Same resistance from fighters. ;)
That is an incorrect statement. The 82nd FG boys have done some long range escorting with the 91st BG. We have ran into some pretty heavy opposition. That is, 30+ enemy fighters in pursuit of the buffs. I really dont understand why people despise high altitude fighting. Afterall, it does make for some historically accurate situations.
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:rofl
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That is an incorrect statement. The 82nd FG boys have done some long range escorting with the 91st BG. We have ran into some pretty heavy opposition. That is, 30+ enemy fighters in pursuit of the buffs. I really dont understand why people despise high altitude fighting. Afterall, it does make for some historically accurate situations.
You have a brother named Chalenge?
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You have a brother named Chalenge?
:rofl :rofl :rock :t
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I feel like doing a strat run now.
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I feel like doing a strat run now.
It's comin'. Just wait.
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You have a brother named Chalenge?
:rock
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I feel for my buff friends. If you like to fly bombers, you just can't do it right.
Bomb an airbase - "Toolshedder!"
Sink a CV - "Fun police!"
Bomb vehicles - "Lame griefer!"
Ok... now you organize raid to the last target left, which is really meant to be bombed: - "Scorepadder!" (Which is actually quite wrong, doing large raids to distant city target is a particular bad way to pad your score, which actually do come close to offline bombing)
If you fly at an altitude that gives you at least a chance to get to your target (must still makes return unlikely) - "Sissy!"
Everybody seems to expect you to fly at an convenient altitude for 3-6 sectors in enemy airspace, so that he doesn't have to watch the map for any signs of a raid and up early to intercept, but can just takeoff whenever he pleases and blow low & slow buffs out of the sky within 5 minutes.
Oh, and for the record: While 15k over a frontline base is usually plenty of altitude for any bomber, it's a whole different thing for flying to the strats, particularly if you are not alone. Flying for 30 mins through enemy airspace towards a totally predictable target is almost guaranteed to getting you killed before even getting there by a gaggle of 262', Ta's, 47M's. Even when you come in at 20k.
I for one enjoy fighting you buffs up there. The first weeks after strat change where tremendous fun to me, even though I lost way more fighters to your guns and escorts than usual. :rock
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I don't care if he flies at 60k. I'll just laugh knowing he is not affecting me one bit. :D
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getting "swarmed" by fighters at 30K?????????? :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
No kidding.
Why not just do it off line? Same fun filled bombing....Same resistance from fighters. ;)
Exactly, they milk run because of the lack of "swarming fighters".
Every time we have run a strat mission, we always have to deal with multiple 262's, 163's, 190's, TA's. We've left with 20+ bombers and come back with 6. So yea, we get swarmed. By your comments, it's apparent you've never been on a strat run, much less try to stop one.
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I don't care if he flies at 60k. I'll just laugh knowing he is not affecting me one bit. :D
Shhh. :uhoh :devil
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Every time we have run a strat mission, we always have to deal with multiple 262's, 163's, 190's, TA's. We've left with 20+ bombers and come back with 6. So yea, we get swarmed. By your comments, it's apparent you've never been on a strat run, much less try to stop one.
nope on both accounts and that is not gonna change anytime soon :aok
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OK, this is going in a useless direction now. So back to my question. Does anyone know when the clock starts running on a factory? Does it start with destruction, or when the city starts to regenerate itself? Also any experiences (timings, good angles of approach, that sort of thing) would be appreciated.
Please, if you're just going to place flames or insults, go somewhere else. I'm just asking some simple questions.
nope on both accounts and that is not gonna change anytime soon :aok
So by your own admission, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just posting to flame and harass.
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OK, this is going in a useless direction now. So back to my question. Does anyone know when the clock starts running on a factory? Does it start with destruction, or when the city starts to regenerate itself? Also any experiences (timings, good angles of approach, that sort of thing) would be appreciated.
Please, if you're just going to place flames or insults, go somewhere else. I'm just asking some simple questions.
So by your own admission, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just posting to flame and harass.
um No, I have been in these skies long enough to "know" what goes on and at 30 you dont get "swarmed" as you put it, maybe now a days that the Bombers are going higher you may get some fighters up there but I highly doubt you are ever swarmed. unless you are like many in here and Think two cons on ya is a Gang. :rofl
now post up some pics of these swarms and I will be corrected.
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um No, I have been in these skies long enough to "know" what goes on and at 30 you dont get "swarmed" as you put it, maybe now a days that the Bombers are going higher you may get some fighters up there but I highly doubt you are ever swarmed. unless you are like many in here and Think two cons on ya is a Gang. :rofl
now post up some pics of these swarms and I will be corrected.
Again, I've got to disagree. I distinctly remember getting swarmed by lots of Rook Ta152's as we were headed south in our B17's. Some influential Rook was smart enough to observe our darbar heading slowly toward their homeland, and organized a pretty forceful interception heading north to meet us. Man, was that ever a fun fight!
The 91st & company has been escorted by plenty of pilots/squads that have gotten held up fighting off interceptors. To hell with "scorepadding". I don't even play that much to care. I come home, eat my dinner, BS with the family, have a beer, and occasionally throughout the work week, I'll find time to get on here & have fun.
That's what I don't get, along with Lusche. Why is it people are so obtuse enough that when HiTech makes a change, when the new wears off, some smart*** has got to bash others enjoyment of that change? A while ago, it was "WTFG HiTech! Wow! The strat looks cool! Makes for some awesome missions!" Now it's, "The bombers are too high, and we don't have the patience for it. We know the game best, and you guys are just padding scores."
Nothing saying the instant-gratification crowd has to go after them anyway. Go have your definition of fun. Just save the bashing for your low altitude opponents in your part of the sandbox.
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I really dont understand why people despise high altitude fighting. Afterall, it does make for some historically accurate situations.
History makes no difference to the moonbats in the game. If you think different than the 'Im so great because I spitball' crowd or the 'Muppets and POTW group hug' crowd then you just dont know what fun is. Just ask a moonbat... you are not allowed to have fun doing ANYTHING else.
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History makes no difference to the moonbats in the game. If you think different than the 'Im so great because I spitball' crowd or the 'Muppets and POTW group hug' crowd then you just dont know what fun is. Just ask a moonbat... you are not allowed to have fun doing ANYTHING else.
You teach folks how to run from 1 vs 1's and wait for a friend, even if you have the alt. advantage.
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the 'Muppets and POTW group hug' crowd
:huh?
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You teach folks how to run from 1 vs 1's and wait for a friend, even if you have the alt. advantage.
Cry me a river about how you cannot force the engagement. Stop me from killing the bombers you are escorting... oh wait... you dont. If I have the alt advantage... your dead... simple as that... no running involved. Even coalt YOUR dead. :D
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Cry me a river about how you cannot force the engagement. Stop me from killing the bombers you are escorting... oh wait... you dont. If I have the alt advantage... your dead... simple as that... no running involved. Even coalt YOUR dead. :D
I'm your huckleberry...
voss man
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Everyone plays their own game, never apologize for how you play it.
:aok
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um No, I have been in these skies long enough to "know" what goes on and at 30 you dont get "swarmed" as you put it, maybe now a days that the Bombers are going higher you may get some fighters up there but I highly doubt you are ever swarmed. unless you are like many in here and Think two cons on ya is a Gang. :rofl
now post up some pics of these swarms and I will be corrected.
(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1599/stratrun.th.png) (http://img514.imageshack.us/i/stratrun.png/)
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4660/stratrun2.th.png) (http://img171.imageshack.us/i/stratrun2.png/)
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1723/stratrun3.th.png) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/stratrun3.png/)
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3395/strat4.th.png) (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/strat4.png/)
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5030/strat5.th.png) (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/strat5.png/)
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8161/strat6.th.png) (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/strat6.png/)
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3586/strat7.th.png) (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/strat7.png/)
That was a fairly uneventful trip.
Now instead of a question, it's a declaration. You do not know what your talking about, you're just posting to flame and harass. Go sit in the corner.
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Clicked last pic.... just for your info you might check the meaning of swarm.
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Clicked last pic.... just for your info you might check the meaning of swarm.
1st Picture: 22 Knight planes inbound (look at the info box) 8 are co-alt, 19 more above 20k, rest closing. 22 planes total.
2nd Picture: Same as first, scrolled info box down to show 6 more planes inbound from 20K. 28 Planes total.
So by the definition of those who cry about 5 lancs noe being a horde, we have the mother of all horde battles going on here.
3rd Picture: Showing those planes moving to intercept, that they weren't just hanging around.
4th Picture: Our second pass. We're losing escorts due to fuel problems and holes mysteriously appearing in their wings. 15 planes incoming.
5th: 1 Bomber gets separated. Immediately has 6 planes jump on him. 3 Escorts try to help him, burning last of their fuel. He is being overwhelmed by the attackers ignoring the escorts and diving for him. He is being Swarmed.
6th Picture: Same bomber, lost 2 escorts and a drone, still dealing with 5 aggressors. Still being swarmed. And no he did not make it.
7th Picture: Was me , in landing sector, this 262 followed us at least 3 sectors. My point with this picture is, until you press "End Sortie", it isn't over.
You click one picture, and you think you have the answers. Shuffler, I enjoyed the few times I went against you. Even tho I lasted a whopping 10 seconds, I have those fights recorded. And I watch them, trying to figure out how not to make the same mistakes twice. One thing you told me was to check ALL angles before making an attack. You are one pilot I do not want to lose respect for. I would suggest you follow your own advice.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/swarmed
swarm 1 (swôrm)
n.
1. A large number of insects or other small organisms, especially when in motion.
2. A group of bees with a queen bee in migration to establish a new colony. See Synonyms at flock1.
3. An aggregation of persons or animals, especially when in turmoil or moving in mass: A swarm of friends congratulated him.
4. A number of similar geologic phenomena or features occurring closely within a given period or place: a swarm of earthquakes.
v. swarmed, swarm·ing, swarms
v.intr.
1.
a. To move or emerge in a swarm.
b. To leave a hive as a swarm. Used of bees.
2. To move or gather in large numbers.
3. To be overrun; teem: a riverbank swarming with insects. See Synonyms at teem1.
v.tr.
To fill with a crowd: sailors swarming the ship's deck.
So yes, my definition is correctly used.
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Clicked last pic.... just for your info you might check the meaning of swarm.
sorry that is not a swarm by any stretch of the imagination :rofl the only "swarm" I see is the one you are in :rolleyes:...but sure you are right fighters will now go higher to chase your bombers down because you have to go higher due to strat change :aok
still makes no difference to me, I am not gonna take the time it takes to get that high, besides that, the planes that do best up there I don't fly.
FSO is my time for realistic "sorties".
why you so defensive? play the game the way you like. I do
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I get it.... so any plane in the area..... involved or not. So do you count planes in the whole sector? Maybe just the sector your in and all touching that sector?
Looks like the buffs have all others outnumbered even in the area.
27 B-17s
9 Fighters ( most of those either out of icon range or almost out)
Maybe you can take the totals that were on both other teams and press that as your swarm. Better yet Use the total number in all arenas as flying against your buffs.... oooo and don't count the other buffs as you have no control over them..... and.... and..... your drones, don't count them as they don't follow very well.
Good Lord... you were outnumbered! :uhoh
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sorry that is not a swarm by any stretch of the imagination :rofl the only "swarm" I see is the one you are in :rolleyes:...but sure you are right fighters will now go higher to chase your bombers down because you have to go higher due to strat change :aok
still makes no difference to me, I am not gonna take the time it takes to get that high, besides that, the planes that do best up there I don't fly.
FSO is my time for realistic "sorties".
why you so defensive? play the game the way you like. I do
Why am I defensive? I asked a simple question, you took it as an opportunity to insult and harass. You have NOTHING to contribute, yet you flame. You asked for screenshots, I provided exactly what you asked for. Now you change your story and continue with insults? You cry about 6-7 planes being a horde, but 28 planes isn't a swarm? So what's the number? 50? 100? 2 planes line up on you and you get ganged, but 6 planes line up on a bomber and he isn't? Why am I defensive? I ask a simple question, and I have someone with the mental capacity of a retarded chimpanzee on crack degenerate a good discussion into "strats are stoopid". You have asked, you have received, you have been corrected. Right now you're opinion matters about as much as a bad case of diarrhea: full of s*** and doesn't know when to stop. Again, go sit in the corner.
I do not give a flying **** as to what you fly, how you fly, or how lazy you can be. All I have ever expected on the Forums was common courtesy. I asked a question. If someone wants to turn this into a discussion about the merits of high altitude bombing, I'll be more then happy. Just present evidence, you may be right, I may be wrong, thank you for the insight, done. That is all that ever needs to be done. If you can prove I am wrong then so be it I will agree with you. Is that so hard to understand?
That being said, back to the original reason:OK, this is going in a useless direction now. So back to my question. Does anyone know when the clock starts running on a factory? Does it start with destruction, or when the city starts to regenerate itself? Also any experiences (timings, good angles of approach, that sort of thing) would be appreciated.
Please, if you're just going to place flames or insults, go somewhere else. I'm just asking some simple questions.
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I hate my connection
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I still hate my connection
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I definitely hate my connection. Sorry for the multiple posts, it seemed like my comp froze on me and I thought I had closed the connection.
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Your original question can probably be answered in the help area or a simple email to HiTech.
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I could care less if people choose to fly at 30K+ for bombing strats. If that is your cup-of-tea, then go for it. However, lets NOT kid ourselves at the reason for dropping bombs from that altitude. You can hit strats from 20K+ the same as 30K+ and the fuel difference is negligible at best. The ONLY reason to spend the time to climb over 30k is to milk run for score where you are less likely to encounter fighters. Only 262s and 163 can even effectively get high enough to reach you let alone get above to fight. I have tried to engage two seperate strat runs recently and both times, the bomber group was above the ceiling for the planes (a 110 and a JugM) I was flying. Now, I don't waste my time. If I see a strat run, I assume they don't want a fight and don't up. They may have their free bomber points.
This is not a dig. If you want to fly up there, my hats off to you. Enjoy the game however it pleases you. But lets call the milk, milk.
:salute
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bla bla bla
well show me where I insulted you? nowhere did I insult anyone, you are the one throwing the insults about, not I.
YOU were in the swarm, there was NO swarm of nme around you nice try :rofl
don't like my replies don't reply back
again why you so defensive? usually when someone is so defensive they are guilty of what is being spoken about....
oh ya one more thing you have showed me beyond a reasonable doubt you have the "...mental capacity of a retarded chimpanzee on crack..."
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I could care less if people choose to fly at 30K+ for bombing strats. If that is your cup-of-tea, then go for it. However, lets NOT kid ourselves at the reason for dropping bombs from that altitude. You can hit strats from 20K+ the same as 30K+ and the fuel difference is negligible at best. The ONLY reason to spend the time to climb over 30k is to milk run for score where you are less likely to encounter fighters. Only 262s and 163 can even effectively get high enough to reach you let alone get above to fight. I have tried to engage two seperate strat runs recently and both times, the bomber group was above the ceiling for the planes (a 110 and a JugM) I was flying. Now, I don't waste my time. If I see a strat run, I assume they don't want a fight and don't up. They may have their free bomber points.
This is not a dig. If you want to fly up there, my hats off to you. Enjoy the game however it pleases you. But lets call the milk, milk.
:salute
Ok so let me get this straight, we don't want to fight because you chose a 110 to come and stop us? I have seen TA's, 51's, 190's, 38's, 57N's, F4U's, spit's, niki's, hell I've even seen a zero up there (that I think tho was someone just seeing how high they could go) I might have seen a 110, once maybe twice at 30k. I've seen the charts them, and it looks like your lucky to be going level and forward at that altitude. But honestly I can't make any calls on that because I don't fly fighters, least not very well. I can just tell you what has given me problems, aside form the 262, and the 163, would be 38's, 51's, and 190's, oh and TA's.
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Ink, I have to apologize. I have some issues at home to deal with and trying to do so on a severe lack of nicotine isn't helping. Without dwelling to deeply I have a father with ALS and I have received some bad news, a wife in a fight with my mother in law, and it looks like I have to pawn my computer tomorrow to keep from getting evicted. I've been carrying that frustration over to here. For that I apologize (thank my wife, she smacked me upside that head after reading some posts) One point still remains valid, you have never experienced it. To me it's like saying you can be a police officer because you were a hall monitor. First of all, let me clarify a few things. The remark about flak at 30K was an offhand remark. I was trying to be funny, and apparently failed. Yes, I bomb strats at 30K, I also have hit them at 25 and 20k. Hell I went as low as 15k (that I don't advise, flak will chew you up). When I talked about getting swarmed, I'm not saying the skies are black with enemy fighters. When 1 pilot has to deal with 6 or 7 fighters at once, that's getting swarmed. By your admission, more and more fighters are upping to 30K, so it happens fairly regularly. You can see by the 5th and 6th picture I posted that's what happened to DHawk. That's what I mean by getting swarmed. All those planes in the first pictures did come up after us. They were doing the same thing, teaming up and picking off outlying bombers. Remember one thing, once our escorts are used up, that's it, they're done. They can't just re-up and join the fight in 5 minutes like the enemy can.
Here's a walk-thru of a normal strat run. I'm not going to use and opposition, just the basic run.
1: Lift off, level 1k AGL, manifold to 35 in, collect bomb group. Make first turn towards target. Full throttle. Engage auto climb. At this point escorts take position at 12, 9, 6, and 3. If we have enough we also position them at 12 high and 6 low.
2: Make whatever turns are necessary, stay in climb for BZ speed, flight lead assigns targets and lanes.
3: reach altitude, make final turn head towards target, 2 sectors bombers start to line up on assigned targets. At this point is when things get hairy. Most of the time buffs will get spread out enough that we can only effectively cover 2 bombers at a time. Most of the time we're 500 off each others wings, but when you take into account stragglers and different alts sometimes, this can leave some very big gaps. At this point we start getting aggressors. Usual routine is groups of 3 to 5 aggressors start to target one bomber per group and they start working their way in. Now our escorts are being expended, either they have to RTB due to fuel or they get shot down. This whole time we're in our bombsights, lining up. Alot of times we can't get gunners because 1/3 of the population is flying with us, another is already airborne trying to capitalize off the resources we're drawing away, and the rest is just AFK. On average we have 1 gunner for every 3 planes. So at this point, during line up and calibration, we're flying speed bumps.
4: Make drop, 1st turn for second pass. Now formation gets even more spread out because people miss the turn and the differences in formation already, gets amplified thru the turn. Top that off with diminished escorts and low level cons during the line up are now co-alt. Make next 2 turns jumping between guns and cockpit. Again differences get amplified, we're spread out more, now we have to line up and prioritize the drops to cover for lost bombers. Now any cons that were dropped during the initial line up are back up and co-alt. Back into the bombsights, back to being flying speed bumps.
5: Final drop, turn for home, again differences are amplified, now we're stretched out. lead bombers have to slow down more, while rear has to speed up. That whole time we are vulnerable. At this point, on average we may have 2-3 escorts left. So now, we are low on ammo, low on fuel, and we have to descend over enemy territory. So at that point we're real easy targets, and the whole damn country knows where we're at. During descent we'll lose bombers to lost engines and fuel leaks, and our escorts are dead or booking it home. Now we're being harassed by 262's and anything else.
It's not as easy as it sounds to fly to 30k, bomb a target, and head for home. There is no "milk run" to this. The only milk part is the take off and the climb, after that all hell breaks loose. We warn our pilots every time we take off "If you get separated, you will die", because that is exactly what will happen.
Look, I'm sorry. Things are extremely frustrating right now, and I'm doing all I can to hold the house together. Playing this game is my way of escaping. I don't have really any other means. But either way, I'm not going to be on for a while after tonite. I'm going to have to figure out a way to get my computer back.
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It's not as easy as it sounds to fly to 30k, bomb a target, and head for home. There is no "milk run" to this. The only milk part is the take off and the climb, after that all hell breaks loose. We warn our pilots every time we take off "If you get separated, you will die", because that is exactly what will happen.
:huh
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Ok so let me get this straight, we don't want to fight because you chose a 110 to come and stop us?
My 110 has nothing to do with it. If you are intentionally flying above any reasonable ceiling of the fighters, than apparently you have no desire to 'fight'. Again, let me re-state this.... it is your dime and your computer. However you chose to fly is fine. Play and enjoy it however you wish. (And I mean that sincerely). I however have found that lately the 'strat' runners want to fly above the fighter ceiling so they don't have to fight in and out. i.e..... don't want to fight. So, if I have to find a fighter and climb to 40K (which I can only think the 163 and 262 will do) to even swoop in on a gaggle of bombers, it is not worth the time and effort. Enjoy the free bomber points and milk all you want.
NOTE: admittedly, I could very well be wrong about the 40K 163 and 262. There may be a few others, but honestly, I don't know. I don't have the patience to find out how high each fighter goes and will still fight.
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My 110 has nothing to do with it. If you are intentionally flying above any reasonable ceiling of the fighters, than apparently you have no desire to 'fight'. Again, let me re-state this.... it is your dime and your computer. However you chose to fly is fine. Play and enjoy it however you wish. (And I mean that sincerely). I however have found that lately the 'strat' runners want to fly above the fighter ceiling so they don't have to fight in and out. i.e..... don't want to fight. So, if I have to find a fighter and climb to 40K (which I can only think the 163 and 262 will do) to even swoop in on a gaggle of bombers, it is not worth the time and effort. Enjoy the free bomber points and milk all you want.
NOTE: admittedly, I could very well be wrong about the 40K 163 and 262. There may be a few others, but honestly, I don't know. I don't have the patience to find out how high each fighter goes and will still fight.
Actually, your 110 has alot to do with it. Knowing our altitude, you chose a fighter that has no hope up there. You're attempt to stop a strat run failed, not because of our "unwillingness to fight", but because you brought the wrong equipment. Essentially you brought a wiffle-bat to a MLB game. And I'm not trying to be insulting. You don't need the patience to figure out what to fly up there and attack us, I'm telling you. Like I said, the fighters that give us the most problems up there are 51's, 38's, TA's, typh's, 190's, of course the 262, and the 163. Next time try one of those. To be honest, I don't fly at 30k to avoid you, I'm flying to avoid the flak. We want to fight you, we're gonna get maybe 2 points off the bombing, but a whole lot more from shooting you guys down. I just don't like being downed by a piece of pixelated shrapnel and have one of ya'll get a proxy. Ok, so we're in a position of advantage. You have to climb to us, tough. We're bombers, soon as we reached 20k on the return you're going to be diving on us anyways. You're missing a big part of the challenge here, it's not to get the bombs there, but to get them there and get us back.
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There are plenty of us fighters up there above 20k, especially around the redesigned citys now. I'll even get above 30K if I have any hunch of an enemy con being above 25k. It's not easy flying and it takes more patience than even I have most nights, but I've never had a planned hi-alt fighter run disapoint me lately, at least in finding something to shoot at.
My only complaint recently about the action in the higher altitudes is that I think it's newer and unexperienced sticks making their way up there. I don't think I've gained the advantage on a fighter in the past week above 15K and not have it's imediate reaction be to dive straight down to the deck (and I'm talking all the way to the floor with the ACM grace of a lawn dart, leveling out only less than 2k off the tree tops).
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I just witnessed a Rook strat raid in LWO. Several sets of B24s in good formation, escorted by fighters... but flying "only" @20-25k.
They were slaughtered while still 2 sectors away from their target by 262's, Ta 152's, 190A8 and other models. They never had any chance. In just a few moments they were all dead.
And I'm still amazed by all this "they do it ONLY for score" statements by players that don't know anything much about score, never do any such raids or fly bombers at all, and aren't even able to get the premium high-alt fighter, the P-47M to altitude.
Players do various things for various reasons, but it seems to be trendy within any specific circle in AH do discount anything other players do or play as lame. "Scorepadding buffs! Lame furballers! GV tards!"
Fact is: Attacking the strats is not a very rewarding target in terms of score. There are targets that can give you way better score, that are much less obvious to the defenders, not protected by puffy ack and do not require several sectors flying in enemy airspace. I WISH it had more effect on score / gameplay (albeit the latter one has to be balanced) as an incentive to attack it and to balance the difficulty and invested time. (A single mission can easily take up to 2 hours)
Fact is: Unless you are lucky (single bomber sneaking through at off-peak times), you most probably won't make it to your target if flying at 20k. Contrary to what I read in this thread, there are many fighter capable to fly to any altitude the bombers are able to reach: 47's, Ponies, 109K-4, Spit 9 & 14. And they have lot of time to see you coming...
Fact is: The 262, of which only 2 are needed to shred any but the largest missions, is getting difficult to fly above ~27k, altitude is almost the only way for the buffs to make it more difficult for the jet pilots. Which will almost invariably show up, because of the long warning times and very predictable targets the buffs are going to.
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NOTE: admittedly, I could very well be wrong about the 40K 163 and 262. There may be a few others, but honestly, I don't know. I don't have the patience to find out how high each fighter goes and will still fight.
There are many many many fighters that can go far far above any of the bombers ceiling. The bombers could not have escorts if there were not fighters that could go that high. You have just run into the historical reason the 110 was useless against the same bombers in r/l.
The whole reason the moonbat spitballing heroes dont want you going that high and the reason they give mouth service against this kind of fun is because they want everyone low so they can max their kill ratios and time ratios. The 'score potato' insults are thrown out there because you are ruining the moonbats score by not sticking together in a nice tight pack of noobs for them and they dont want to waste their time ratios coming up to get you. The whole 'we fought on the weak side' isnt because they want more numbers to kill but so they can get their perk rides. If anything there are your score potatoes right there.
Dont buy into their mental illness its all a trick to get you mad or make you fly to their game ('these arent the droids your looking for'). They actually believe you would buy it just because it was them selling it. :rofl
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They actually believe you would buy it just because it was them selling it.
To be blunt, I don't think anyone would buy what you're selling... at least not ever again.
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To be blunt, I don't think anyone would buy what you're selling... at least not ever again.
I think I'm missing something here. :huh
Lusche, you said they took a formation of 24's up? Let me guess, you saw a whole bunch of flying fireballs didn't ya? That's one thing we noticed about the 24's. Granted they carry more 1k's and have comparable firepower to the 17, things are a little twitchy with them. They seem to take about 2 sectors to fully stabilize, 17 takes about 1/2 a sector. In terms of bomb loadout, they carry the same amount of 500's as the 17, so for bombing the city there's no advantage. Also the range just doesn't seem to be there. The biggest thing we noticed is durability. They can take fuselage and tail hits all day long, but god help you with the engine. I swear I've seen Betty go inverted over the top of me and shoot my engine with a slingshot. Poof, instant marshmallow toaster. They seem to catch fire way to easily. That's one of the reasons I won't up 24's for a strat run. 17's just have more durability. Now that being said, all that is based on just our experience in testing the 2 bombers against one another. If that was the tendencies of the 2 in real life, I do not know. That's just the way it seems in game. I'm still looking for a tactic to use the 24 in. 17's are my 15k an up bombers. For NOE, all I need is 3 forms of 26's with pilots who know how to calibrate. I can take a base/town out in one pass, and survive with all drones attached. Trick is to go full throttle and drop at 800 feet. That tactic actually has replaced the Lanc for base busting. 25c's are my Hi-ENY base busters. Anyone have any suggestions?
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Dont buy into their mental illness its all a trick to get you mad or make you fly to their game ('these arent the droids your looking for'). They actually believe you would buy it just because it was them selling it. :rofl
LMAO you shouldn't use the words mental, illness, trick and game in the same sentence.
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ink...
accepted
There are many many many fighters that can go far far above any of the bombers ceiling. The bombers could not have escorts if there were not fighters that could go that high. You have just run into the historical reason the 110 was useless against the same bombers in r/l.
The whole reason the moonbat spitballing heroes don't want you going that high and the reason they give mouth service against this kind of fun is because they want everyone low so they can max their kill ratios and time ratios. The 'score potato' insults are thrown out there because you are ruining the moonbats score by not sticking together in a nice tight pack of noobs for them and they dont want to waste their time ratios coming up to get you. The whole 'we fought on the weak side' isnt because they want more numbers to kill but so they can get their perk rides. If anything there are your score potatoes right there.
Dont buy into their mental illness its all a trick to get you mad or make you fly to their game ('these arent the droids your looking for'). They actually believe you would buy it just because it was them selling it. :rofl
so whats up????????? you voss??????? if you are...lowest of the low... well child molester I put worse but that's it, you should quit this game and never come back NO one wants you in here except the ones you are beguiling again.....NOW if you are truly NOT this VOSS why the hell would you let people think you are??? I would do every thing I could to straighten out the truth, which should not be all that difficult.
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accepted
Thank you, things have been rather like a roller coaster here. Hopefully the description of the strat run will give a bit of insight into what I was talking about.
so whats up????????? you voss??????? if you are...lowest of the low... well child molester I put worse but that's it, you should quit this game and never come back NO one wants you in here except the ones you are beguiling again.....NOW if you are truly NOT this VOSS why the hell would you let people think you are??? I would do every thing I could to straighten out the truth, which should not be all that difficult.
Yea, I'm definitely missing something here. Who the hell is Voss?
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Yea, I'm definitely missing something here. Who the hell is Voss?
I don't know but he sold me this flight suit. (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/special-moonbat.jpg)he said it would save on fuel :furious
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Yea, I'm definitely missing something here. Who the hell is Voss?
A tool of epic proportions. It's long story involving the CIA, F-16's and a scorpion. :rolleyes:
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A tool of epic proportions. It's long story involving the CIA, F-16's and a scorpion. :rolleyes:
Well a f-16 was on a noe mission intercept out of the west, heading 090 over my place yesterday. Maybe it was Voss? :D:bolt:
Wait, could've been that pesky helicopter chasing me around all day! :P (scene from goodfellas)
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To be blunt, I don't think anyone would buy what you're selling... at least not ever again.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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A tool of epic proportions. It's long story involving the CIA, F-16's and a scorpion. :rolleyes:
You're kidding right? I'm gonna have to do a search for this.
*edit* Wow. I didn't think it was possible to tie a F-16, CIA, and a scorpion together, but he managed that with a P-51, 2 PhD's and a brain tumor? Sounds like a bad James Bond film meets Monty Python. And he's still running around?
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Actually, your 110 has alot to do with it. Knowing our altitude, you chose a fighter that has no hope up there. You're attempt to stop a strat run failed, not because of our "unwillingness to fight", but because you brought the wrong equipment. Essentially you brought a wiffle-bat to a MLB game.
The Me110 may not be the best plane to take to 30k but to say it has no hope up there is just lunacy. Just last night I intercepted three sets of B17s flying around 27k on a strat run in my 110. I was able to take down a whole formation and one bomber from the remaining two before having to RTB for fuel. If I had more fuel and patience there is no doubt that I could have landed a few more pelts.
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The Me110 may not be the best plane to take to 30k but to say it has no hope up there is just lunacy. Just last night I intercepted three sets of B17s flying around 27k on a strat run in my 110. I was able to take down a whole formation and one bomber from the remaining two before having to RTB for fuel. If I had more fuel and patience there is no doubt that I could have landed a few more pelts.
Cool. Like I said, I'm a mediocre fighter pilot at best. What I know is based on my experience in the bombers. That tells me you were extremely lucky or your a hell of a pilot. I would suspect the latter. In my experience, whenever a 110 came after me (above 25k), it was a fairly easy kill because it always seemed to be too sluggish. Questions tho. Did you climb up from underneath or meet them co-alt? Did they already make their drops? Did you dive on them, or take them from the 6? Nothing in this post is sarcastic, I ask because I genuinely want to know.
They only took 3 forms? That is a wasted strat run, in my opinion. But again, I go after them because I think the strats can be a potentially valuable target. When I up, I up to destroy it. 3 forms is not enough to knock the city down, and any factory would be back up before they landed anything. But I am glad to see people going after it.
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It was in the MW and there were only three in that squad so I think is was just a squad mission. I spotted their darbar about three sectors out. I grabbed a 110G2, 50% fuel, DTs, big gun pack , and four WGr21 rockets. When I spotted them I I was at their 3 o'clock almost co-alt. I let them pass me and started making my way up the 6 of the last formation. Because I never fired my 'wockets' up that high I was only able to knock out the two drones (they drop a lot more then they do down low). I then dove down and come up from under the single bomber taking his tail and wing off. I then got out in front of them and made a low attack from their 10 o'clock killing one bomber. I again got out in front of them and came in directly underneath the highest set (30k by this time) and sawed the wing off his drone. All this before they were able to make their drop.
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It was in the MW and there were only three in that squad so I think is was just a squad mission. I spotted their darbar about three sectors out. I grabbed a 110G2, 50% fuel, DTs, big gun pack , and four WGr21 rockets. When I spotted them I I was at their 3 o'clock almost co-alt. I let them pass me and started making my way up the 6 of the last formation. Because I never fired my 'wockets' up that high I was only able to knock out the two drones (they drop a lot more then they do down low). I then dove down and come up from under the single bomber taking his tail and wing off. I then got out in front of them and made a low attack from their 10 o'clock killing one bomber. I again got out in front of them and came in directly underneath the highest set (30k by this time) and sawed the wing off his drone. All this before they were able to make their drop.
Quite honestly, you should have been dead. Coming up the 6 allows the pilot to put 14 guns (3 sets tail, 3 sets ball/top, and 2 waist guns) on you. I pray that cins try to come up the 6. Tells me someone wasn't paying attention. Good way to capitalize. (And I mean that honestly) How did the 110 react? Was it sluggish at that alt?
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Quite honestly, you should have been dead. Coming up the 6 allows the pilot to put 14 guns (3 sets tail, 3 sets ball/top, and 2 waist guns) on you. I pray that cins try to come up the 6. Tells me someone wasn't paying attention. Good way to capitalize. (And I mean that honestly) How did the 110 react? Was it sluggish at that alt?
You can fire WGr 21 rockets outside of 1.0k (I don't know if it's more/less that high). You can maybe hit with tailguns at that distance but it's a bit of a longshot, generally.
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You can fire WGr 21 rockets outside of 1.0k (I don't know if it's more/less that high). You can maybe hit with tailguns at that distance but it's a bit of a longshot, generally.
Well, something for me to keep an eye out for then
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WGr21 rockets are fired right on the very edge of the .50s range. As soon as you fire them if you maneuver out of the way you wont get hit. The B17s were firing at me out from 1.5 and didn't get a single hit. While the 110 is sluggish up there IMO every plane is. You just have to watch your speed and everything will be fine.
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Firing at 1.5? I know some people are William Tell when it comes to tailguns, but that seems a little, hell I can't think of a good smarta** remark for it. If you're flying flat, dumb, and happy, maybe I'll pop a few shots. I generally wait till 1k, then I'll pop "wake-up" bursts at 1k, 800, and 600. At 400 is when I let em have it. Of course now I have to rethink that strategy because of the rockets. Well, maybe not, If I'm that high then I'm on a strat run, which means escorts and other bombers...hopefully. Still gonna have to think on this.
I just upped a 15k run (testing out a new config on the joystick) in Blue. I had to run that bottleneck at A1 when it was busy as all get out. A 190 comes up behind me when I was on the chin following a zeke, and proceeds to pepper me. Pop into the tail and let out a burst, shot out his engine. He still managed to turn my lead plane into the Fourth of July. A second one comes in hot, so I pull off a "meteor". Speed command to 300, cut manifold and RPMs to 0, engage. 17 drops like a brick, poor bas**** runs right up to the tailgun. I don't know why,but he went negative to avoid a collision and ends up getting it in the cockpit from about 20 ft away. :D
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WGr21s explode at 1.2k which is right when the icon goes from 1.5 to 1.0. If you see a 109,190 or 110 position himself on your six then starts to slowly creep up then he might be packing them.
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"The Me110 may not be the best plane to take to 30k"
No, not when you're trying to intercept my ol' B-17 Soozy Poo as she flogs home at 34,000 feet after bombing the strats.
:cool:
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WGr21s explode at 1.2k which is right when the icon goes from 1.5 to 1.0. If you see a 109,190 or 110 position himself on your six then starts to slowly creep up then he might be packing them.
Murphy's law. Just had someone try that on me. Soon as he hit 1 k I popped auto climb right as he loosed them. Still took damage. Whats the blast radius on those things?
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They like that alt.... nothing historic or anything. They just like the challenge of conserving fuel.
Leave us not to forget "A bombers best defense is speed and altitude" Gen. Hap Arnold