Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: vonKrimm on February 20, 2010, 04:49:57 PM
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As a corollary, and not wanting to hi-jack, to A8Tools topic: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,283972.0.html ; which I intend as a subjective critique, not a criticism, after an experience in EW last night.
I had another AH player and his squaddies, ones that I have never encountered before, start-in on 200 about me HOing him and one of his squaddies, with additional comment about my lack of skill. This came after he and his squaddies had shot me down 2 or 3 times. He was a good stick and his squads wingman tactics were excellent.
The point of this "rant" is that many posters in the other thread said (along the lines of) "yeah, it used to be less HOing, more about the fight, less about the war" and so-forth. My questions to those posters are: How many times have you asked another player if he would like to learn good ACM? I mean actually saying "hey player 'x' let me switch sides (or you switch) and I'll show you some tactics." In general, what I see and get on 200 is "u have no skillz", "go2 the TA", and "LMAO, I pwnd you seventy-leven times!!!!" NEVER, and I do mean NEVER, has any player offered to teach me to fight the fight the way they would like the fights to be like they were in their memories of the old days of AH.
So next time you kill someone fortygajillion times or get HOed, and start to grief on 200 or by PM; think about teaching them what you know and what you deem to be good AH-sportsmanship. I'm sure you will see the "quality" of the enemy pee-lots go up over time.
<checking the safety sticker on my flame-retardent undies now> :pray
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+1
Me neither... Never had anyone offer to help me improve after a tangle. Wish somebody would...
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Agreed.
One question is being pwned worse than being owned?
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Agreed.
One question is being pwned worse than being owned?
No idea but that phrase is BANNED in my house and on the youth sports teams that I coach just because it shows how ignorant of language one can be.
As for training....If anyone wants to schedule a time I would be glad to oblige in the TA or DA. Just shoot me a PM and I will be glad to teach what I know about flying any of the US Navy rides in the game.
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How many times have you asked another player if he would like to learn good ACM? I mean actually saying "hey player 'x' let me switch sides (or you switch) and I'll show you some tactics."
I've done that a few times and I'd be pretty sure others have too but we just stayed on our sides and met between fields or went to the DA. Not that I'm any good.
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No idea but that phrase is BANNED in my house and on the youth sports teams that I coach just because it shows how ignorant of language one can be.
LMAO. This is about as rediculous as I've seen typed here recently. Oh no!!! The children used slang!! As if they are the first generation to use slang..... :rolleyes:
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You're right VonKrimm, but better yet is for one to put their own ego aside (not implying anything here) and ask for help. I've asked several players for help and couldn't be more pleased with the results. Just ask or switch teams and ask to ride with them. Record the fights, ask if they do and would be willing to send you copies of the recordings. Read some books on the subject. Have fun and don't take the flak to seriously....after all it is just a game.
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How many times have you asked another player if he would like to learn good ACM? I mean actually saying "hey player 'x' let me switch sides (or you switch) and I'll show you some tactics."
The few times I did offer such a thing without being specifically asked for I was greeted with very unfavorable responses, if at all. So I do wait until I'm asked... then I try to helpas much as I can (I have my limits though, in that cases I try to point the player into the right direction for getting more qualified help))
On the other hand, when I was new, I very rarely encountered players actually trying to help me or give me some clues after I was shot down. Most of the time it's just been "lol, go TA n00b!" (I had quite a few very unpleasant incidents during my first weeks in AH, which I can image of making other new players simply go away from AH :( )
On pwn owning or whatever: I never ever understood that stuff. It's just not my way of thinking. I'm not pwning anyone and I never get owned either. I just win or lose a cartoon fight (or vulch ;) )
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If someone is an obvious new player I've seen people offer help. If they are average I think help isn't OFFERED much but whenever I've asked a humble good stick (don't like arrogance) I've never been turned down. Slapshot, Dedalos, Grizz, snaphook, AKAK, besides regular trainers have all been good to me when I asked for tips after being shot down repeatedly and I appreciate it.
The inflated ego idiots you mention probably will not change and if they offer to help (shoot you down some more) it will probably be to feed their own sense of self worth they get from being good at a video game.
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I think a better question would be...
"why are these players who have little to no skill not ASKING for or seeking out help?"
I remember when I was new to AH (had flown AW for years) I sought out "good" sticks and either asked them for help or would fight them and film it and spent many hours studying said films.
I spent untold hours in the the DA or in KOTH trying to figure out how they are killing me so quickly.
I wouldn't say I am one of the "great" sticks in the game, but I DO think I can hold my own vs. anybody and I GOT that way working my tookus off.
Look at Grizz. Go back a few years and Grizz was "decent" but not a world beater. (no offense Grizz) Ask Grizz just how many 1,000's of duels he has done this past few years to hone his skills. Grizz is now one of the best pilots in the game. (top 3 easily) He GOT that way by logging the hours/days/weeks/months practicing and putting forth the effort to improve.
What appalls me is how many new players just don't make the effort. There is an INCREDIBLE amount of information out there for a player to use to help them improve. AH has a FANTASTIC group of Trainers. There are literally 1,000's of films you can d/l. Many, many, many websites out there that are choked full of information to help you learn.
I can't remember the last time I was sent a p.m. from a player I just killed asking me what they did wrong or how they could have won that fight.
It just doesn't seem to be "there" anymore.
Personally, I blame mega squads and the land grab mentality.
You don't have to be a very good pilot if there are 30 of ya' vs. 8 nme.
Anymore, it doesn't seem to matter that those 30 pilots just died 3-5 times each fighting those 8 nme because from sheer numbers alone they TOOK the base and that (sadly) is what is important to them.
Go back 4-6 years. Were there NOE missions? Sure. Was that pretty much ALL squads ran like what we have now? Look at some of the mega-squads who pretty much ONLY run NOE hoard missions for base captures. Dweeby tactics are the "norm" now. Gone are the days where they would look at a large nme dar bar and run a mission right at it.
Am I one of the only players that feels that Style Points matter? It isn't just capturing the base that matters to me but HOW you captured it.
Was there a player 8 years ago saying what I just did? Yup. Has the game changed dramatically? No, not really. Is what I just typed as true then as it is now? You bet. There are just more players flying now so the extremes are more pronounced.
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Go back 4-6 years. Were there NOE missions? Sure. Was that pretty much ALL squads ran like what we have now? Look at some of the mega-squads who pretty much ONLY run NOE hoard missions for base captures. Dweeby tactics are the "norm" now. Gone are the days where they would look at a large nme dar bar and run a mission right at it.
5 years ago it was basically the same as it is now. Over those five years there were times with more NOE's, times with less. Sometimes more hording, sometimes less. But not fundamentally different than today. In some ways, gameplay was even worse because of the rules for winning the war.
I remember leaving the rook side four years ago because of the "new" thing they formed back then: the LCA, which was flattening bases and steamrolling the map with giant horde missions. So it's not a new thing now, and it wasn't even back then,: I learned from older players and from browsing the BBS than such things had happened before. It's going thru cycles again and again.
Currently, I (subjectively) happen to encoutner even a bit less nme NOE's than maybe a year ago.
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LMAO. This is about as rediculous as I've seen typed here recently. Oh no!!! The children used slang!! As if they are the first generation to use slang..... :rolleyes:
:lol yep - adults are usually the last to know the "current" teen wordage and certainly are frequently surprised to find out their kids are usually 1-2 years ahead of them regarding street language (and the birds and the bees too). :rofl
The more things change the more they don't!!
Regarding the lack of help - I suspect there are a fair # of seasoned sticks who are more than happy to give some help when asked. What I think you're up against here tho is juvenile players who think it is grown up to insult people on 200 and proclaim how good they are. <shrug>
My advice vonKrimm is ignore them and check out some of the Trainers - time well spent.
...cheers eh!
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Lusche... I pretty much find two types of missions anymore.
Either it is a large hoard NOE or it is a large hoard buff mission w/ escorts.
Are those the ONLY mission I come up against? No. Are they the TYPICAL mission I see?
Yup.
I might be thinking back more like 6-8 years not 4-5. (man i'm getting old)
Back when squads would seek each other out and have massive battles that lasted hours.
All I know is when my squad asks me "where next" I look for the largest nme dar bar and we fight there.
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I've asked several players for help and couldn't be more pleased with the results.
I believe that this is true. I also like to believe that this has gained me some new friends in game. :aok
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All I know is when my squad asks me "where next" I look for the largest nme dar bar and we fight there.
:aok :aok
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LMAO. This is about as rediculous as I've seen typed here recently. Oh no!!! The children used slang!! As if they are the first generation to use slang..... :rolleyes:
What I do in my house with my 13 year old works for him and us and the teams we are a part of. Guess what it doesn't get used anymore; for the record I never said slang was unacceptable just that one stupid phrase. One phrase that is as F*^&^&@ stupid as "pwned" isn't going to hurt him to use a REAL word in place of it. Also when dealing with friends, family, opponents in sports it shows up as you show respect instead of being a jack arse and guess what things like that start to disappear.
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So next time you kill someone fortygajillion times or get HOed, and start to grief on 200 or by PM; think about teaching them what you know and what you deem to be good AH-sportsmanship. I'm sure you will see the "quality" of the enemy pee-lots go up over time.
You're assuming that people want to get better at the ACM side, as opposed to the getting kills side. I don't know if that's true.
A lot of players seem perfectly happy playing ho & go in Typhies or 190s (or whatever, just so long as you can't get caught and be forced to fight 1v1) or just ganging in general. At almost anytime you can find a big red dar bar over a friendly base with a small green one. And at the next red base another full red dar bar is on the way. What is the second wave looking for you think? Granted, some of them are just trying to capture the field but the majority of them are there because they think they'll find some easy kills, and their only real danger will be if their teammates beat them to those kills. For those guys AH is about kills, not learning how to get better at the ACM side.
I think that's as true now as it was back in AW, and back in tour 49-59 or so when I last played. I also think it's how most people, including me, start out in the game.
I've actually gotten some good advice. I pm'ed Lute after a fight to ask where I had gone wrong, and he told me "stop going ho." It was a little confusing at first 'cos I wasn't ho-ing. But what I was doing was dropping flaps and turning back onto his nose when he got behind me. Once I figured out what he meant and stopped using that as option it really helped. And a few other guys have been really helpful.
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Look at Grizz. Go back a few years and Grizz was "decent" but not a world beater. (no offense Grizz) Ask Grizz just how many 1,000's of duels he has done this past few years to hone his skills. Grizz is now one of the best pilots in the game. (top 3 easily) He GOT that way by logging the hours/days/weeks/months practicing and putting forth the effort to improve.
and he got that way by having friendly duelers share thoughts and tactics with him after they fought him in the DA ;)
:noid
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I think a better question would be...
Look at Grizz. Go back a few years and Grizz was "decent" but not a world beater. (no offense Grizz) Ask Grizz just how many 1,000's of duels he has done this past few years to hone his skills. Grizz is now one of the best pilots in the game. (top 3 easily) He GOT that way by logging the hours/days/weeks/months practicing and putting forth the effort to improve.
flying around in a 262 or the other runner planes he flies picking people off doesnt make a great player. I've seen him fite and he's better than me, but there are dozens of other guys that dont make the top that are way better players. but he pays his monthly dues and he flies however he likes the game, I am cool with that.
I find it funny when some guys will zoom in from 20k and I will turn around go head on then they will complain because they die. they seem to forget that it is actually a great acm to face an opponent that has more e/alt than you rather than to show him/her your six or side, unless of course that plane has more firepower than you (mossies, 110's etc.). there are other ways to avoid a higher altitude plane, but its the easiest way to avoid being bnz'd a second time. anybody that gets ho'd has nobody but himself to blame. dont want to get ho'd don't go straight at another plane and if you do and die then its you who needs to learn some acm :bolt:
semp
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flying around in a 262 or the other runner planes he flies picking people off doesnt make a great player. I've seen him fite and he's better than me, but there are dozens of other guys that dont make the top that are way better players.
semp
You obviously have never dueled Grizz.
Name 3 player that can beat him in a duel.
Heck... name 2.
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You obviously have never dueled Grizz.
Name 3 player that can beat him in a duel.
Heck... name 2.
I can name more then 2....but its pointless, you are right Grizz is awesome but like every one he has his faults and is beatable, he will tell you that himself.
and yes I have dueled him he is a great fight, pisses me off his aim is so damn good :lol
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flying around in a 262 or the other runner planes he flies picking people off doesnt make a great player. I've seen him fite and he's better than me, but there are dozens of other guys that dont make the top that are way better players.
semp
I am willing to help you semp(guncrasher) learn BFM, if you want it
have you seen Grizz down on the deck in a 262 with 10 cons swarming all around him and he is actually flying the 262 slower than 240 IAS, and smacking them all down ..or maybe he is in a 109K4 doing the same thing merely 2K off the deck with 8/10/15 Red Icons all around him and he is cleaning them out.then flys off and lands
now, what was you saying he does? name me a dozen players who can fly "just as good with that kind of SA" as him..they don't have to be better.just equal....can you name them?
you must be sore , Grizz must have shot you down a few times........to make a post like that.....
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flying around in a 262 or the other runner planes he flies picking people off doesnt make a great player. I've seen him fite and he's better than me, but there are dozens of other guys that dont make the top that are way better players. but he pays his monthly dues and he flies however he likes the game, I am cool with that.
I find it funny when some guys will zoom in from 20k and I will turn around go head on then they will complain because they die. they seem to forget that it is actually a great acm to face an opponent that has more e/alt than you rather than to show him/her your six or side, unless of course that plane has more firepower than you (mossies, 110's etc.). there are other ways to avoid a higher altitude plane, but its the easiest way to avoid being bnz'd a second time. anybody that gets ho'd has nobody but himself to blame. dont want to get ho'd don't go straight at another plane and if you do and die then its you who needs to learn some acm :bolt:
semp
I think you miss understood, he didn't say top 3 in score, he said top 3 as a cartoon fighter pilot. Grizz in any plane against most people is going to win a lot more than he will lose.
...as to the real topic here, Telling someone what they did wrong WITH OUT them asking is only going to have come across as sounding arrogant and most people will take it that way. However if they ask.... oh lord I wish they would ask! It would be a great help to most players. The problem leads us to Lutes posts. Todays player is to much into getting the kill, base, or win the war ANYWAY they can to worry about using tactics, strategy, or learning a skill. The Quake/COD mentality is how most players approach a game, any game.
Lusche, my comment in the other thread HERE (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,283972.msg3593447.html#msg3593447) was about a time almost 10 years ago. Hoers were ridiculed and shown the error of their ways, Squads would fight squads, NOE's were run maybe one or two a night. Oh and after a team won a base they DEFENDED IT! If they didn't it was won back in minutes. Base captures lasted all night.They don't do things this way any more because it slows the process of racking up kills as fast as they can, stealing bases as fast as they can, wining the war as fast as they can.
We only had small maps back then and they had to reset a new map every Tuesday because most of the time the war wasn't won for the whole week :O
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I might be thinking back more like 6-8 years not 4-5. (man i'm getting old)
Back when squads would seek each other out and have massive battles that lasted hours.
All I know is when my squad asks me "where next" I look for the largest nme dar bar and we fight there.
The Damned vs the CAF
The Damned vs the 412th Bronco Mustangs
The Damned s the JB's ( JB42, JB73, JB11, JB etc etc etc )
The Damned vs the AK's
the Damned vs ( others squads to many to count, they all were good fun )
they throw up their mission or fighter sweep...we would throw up ours...hours & hours of fun..and both sides accomplished their goals of either taking the base or defending it depending on who wore the other squad down each night....... win some lose some, awesome fun for everyone..... regardless if ya won or lose..the action was the excitement...... nobody flew around in mega numbers, nobody avoided the confrontation .it was all "in your face" stop me if you can........
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About two and a half years ago I was invited into the Widowmakers. Previous to this I had asked for some help but it was few and far between. The first night I flew with Lute and Pac they took me into the SEA (lute was sill a CM then) where they spent the next few hours teaching more than I had learned in the previous six months.
Since then we have executed three man base captures in a full arena, two man six sector sneaks, well executed combined arms attacks and a variety of perk farming type fighter sweeps. I have fought and learned from Kermit, Pawz, ZENZEN, Sunsfan and countless others I have dueled with. The time I spent with these individuals have improved my level of game play immensely along with my understanding and enjoyment.
I read just about all I could on ACM from Robert Shaw to In Pursuit.
One of the best times I have had in a awhile was defending some sea front property from DMGOD and EzRhino, fighting Rhino with him in a Pony and me in a D40 then DMGOD in mossie me still in the D40. I almost had DMGOD except the ground was just too durn close :( <S> Gents was a heck of a lot of fun. Unfortunately the bish won the war and the fight was over.
There are a lot of aspects of current game play that I could do without, but for the most part, This is the best game I have encountered, it is never the same twice. It is the newness of every situation which keeps me coming back for more. If only I could get my wife to understand this (Wife ack is deadly accurate lately).
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What I do in my house with my 13 year old works for him and us and the teams we are a part of. Guess what it doesn't get used anymore; for the record I never said slang was unacceptable just that one stupid phrase. One phrase that is as F*^&^&@ stupid as "pwned" isn't going to hurt him to use a REAL word in place of it. Also when dealing with friends, family, opponents in sports it shows up as you show respect instead of being a jack arse and guess what things like that start to disappear.
QFT :aok
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What I do in my house with my 13 year old works for him and us and the teams we are a part of. Guess what it doesn't get used anymore; for the record I never said slang was unacceptable just that one stupid phrase. One phrase that is as F*^&^&@ stupid as "pwned" isn't going to hurt him to use a REAL word in place of it. Also when dealing with friends, family, opponents in sports it shows up as you show respect instead of being a jack arse and guess what things like that start to disappear.
+1
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As a corollary, and not wanting to hi-jack, to A8Tools topic: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,283972.0.html ; which I intend as a subjective critique, not a criticism, after an experience in EW last night.
I had another AH player and his squaddies, ones that I have never encountered before, start-in on 200 about me HOing him and one of his squaddies, with additional comment about my lack of skill. This came after he and his squaddies had shot me down 2 or 3 times. He was a good stick and his squads wingman tactics were excellent.
The point of this "rant" is that many posters in the other thread said (along the lines of) "yeah, it used to be less HOing, more about the fight, less about the war" and so-forth. My questions to those posters are: How many times have you asked another player if he would like to learn good ACM? I mean actually saying "hey player 'x' let me switch sides (or you switch) and I'll show you some tactics." In general, what I see and get on 200 is "u have no skillz", "go2 the TA", and "LMAO, I pwnd you seventy-leven times!!!!" NEVER, and I do mean NEVER, has any player offered to teach me to fight the fight the way they would like the fights to be like they were in their memories of the old days of AH.
So next time you kill someone fortygajillion times or get HOed, and start to grief on 200 or by PM; think about teaching them what you know and what you deem to be good AH-sportsmanship. I'm sure you will see the "quality" of the enemy pee-lots go up over time.
<checking the safety sticker on my flame-retardent undies now> :pray
agreed. i got lucky though, and generally recieve help fairly often...sometimes without asking.........and you all know who you are. and thanks!!
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I think the current state of Aces High is great. I have no complaints. The constant bantering, whining, griefing, etc... usually found on 200 is nothing compared to the stuff you hear in the hallways at your local high school. Trust me, I attend one every weekday. Besides, sometimes it is fun to join in on the bantering. :t
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Most any night, 80% the players are in 3-4 blobs, all desperately trying to avoid the OTHER blobs, lest pesky air combat happen. Locating the other 20% is where the fun is
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When I have a really good fight in MA I pm the guy telling him so.
We compare notes and if they ask I readily help them in DA 1v1s. My reasoning is: if you teach a man to fight you help him get a kill. Teach him how to duel and you help him become a pro.
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Geeze just play the game and shut up. Bunch of hoardin hoing picking drama queens.
:salute
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flying around in a 262 or the other runner planes he flies picking people off doesnt make a great player. I've seen him fite and he's better than me, but there are dozens of other guys that dont make the top that are way better players. but he pays his monthly dues and he flies however he likes the game, I am cool with that.
I find it funny when some guys will zoom in from 20k and I will turn around go head on then they will complain because they die. they seem to forget that it is actually a great acm to face an opponent that has more e/alt than you rather than to show him/her your six or side, unless of course that plane has more firepower than you (mossies, 110's etc.). there are other ways to avoid a higher altitude plane, but its the easiest way to avoid being bnz'd a second time. anybody that gets ho'd has nobody but himself to blame. dont want to get ho'd don't go straight at another plane and if you do and die then its you who needs to learn some acm :bolt:
There's so many things I disagree with in this post. First, Grizz is a very very good virtual pilot. He flies to survive because, in almost every way, it's more challenging than turning circles on the deck. If you don't understand why this is more challenging, you're not doing it right. But if you're a circle turner, he will beat you at that too. I'm no Muppets ankle romancer but I know a good cartoon flyer when I see one.
Second, am I really "forgetting" that it is "great" ACM to HO a higher con? Really? I'm forgetting this? When you start to learn angles and E maintenence you will learn that there are many ways to neutralize an E advantage and actually get a non-HO kill. In fact, despite your bolded text, showing a diving con your six is the precursor to one of the best manuevers FOR doing this. HO'ing a higher bogey is fine, I won't hold that against you or anyone else, but don't sit here and tell us all that it is "great" ACM.
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Second, am I really "forgetting" that it is "great" ACM to HO a higher con? Really? I'm forgetting this? When you start to learn angles and E maintenence you will learn that there are many ways to neutralize an E advantage and actually get a non-HO kill. In fact, despite your bolded text, showing a diving con your six is the precursor to one of the best manuevers FOR doing this. HO'ing a higher bogey is fine, I won't hold that against you or anyone else, but don't sit here and tell us all that it is "great" ACM.
Actually they ALMOST "get it" but unfort. the last piece of the puzzle is missing.
Boelke Dicta
#6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to get around his attack, but fly to meet it.
It floors me that so many people translate the above into "go for the HO".
(sigh)
Go look up the Wiki article on the Boelke Dicta. Some moron even gave their interpretation of #6 and ended it with "it was better to try to bring one's own guns to bear than to flee"
(almost wonder if that is where guncrasher got his mis-info from)
I can list numerous reasons why Dicta # 6 is a very good and quite smart thing for one to do. None of them have anything to do with going for a HO shot. (which is really a stupid move if you want to live)
Turning to meet an attacker who is + Alt/E on you is a great idea from a positional perspective. You are not only giving you opponent a tough shot to try and make but you are also bleeding their Energy and putting them OUT of position if they do decide to force the shot. (simply give them what looks like a shot, and make sure you ain't there when they pull the trigger)
Not to mention that you are dictating what moves your opponent makes to get that shot. (which is somewhat an advanced concept but you really can use this to your advantage. Planes that turn better to the left make sure you are forcing them into a right hand turn to try and hit what they think is a shot)
By "going for it" they are suddenly in all kinds of trouble. Even if they immediately extend they are giving you breathing room, you have gained both Energy and separation, and they have LOST energy in the process. They will have to burn even more E if they reverse and try to setup another pass on you. Heck... 1-5 failed passes like that (depends on how dumb they are) and suddenly you are both co-E AND you now have a positional advantage.
I have lost count the number of opponents who have attack me with alt/E and end up dead not much later with me on their 6 shooting 'em out of the sky.
(Edit: Just to add... If your opponent goes for the shot and then tries to MANEUVER with you they are in a world of hurt and you hold most all the cards at that point. With just a tiny bit of practice you can be killing THOSE types in 1-3 moves)
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When I was new I never tuned to 200. Mostly whiners complaining how they got beat. I played my own game and worked on my skills (never stop learning). :joystick: Now I tune to 200 for the entertainment and communicate with those that I've had good fights with. I think EW is a bad place to learn, go to LW and find some fights where you can learn. Fly with friendlies around for support and watch what they do. A squad that goes to EW and picks on unskilled lone pilots are really the lame ones not you.
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(1) It is useful to avail oneself of the expertise of others. I learned a great deal from former squadmates (Parrots) in the former game (WBs). All of them but Dhyran, Drache (now Boozeman), Flubby, Kazz, and Rulo (MrRulo) were especially helpful. I've actually changed quite a bit from a turn, burn, reverse, re-up into one who enjoys the rtb, thinking a bit, and BnZ. I'll still up at a CV melee and have at it, but not the norm.
(2) It is ultimately a game, played for private reasons or perhaps no coherent reasons at all. So, it is, IMO, a matter of personal choice whether one wants to apply the "protestant work ethic" to the game. It would be nice if the insults, excuses, trash talking were not there---but civility is rare in our world.
(3) The Boelke Dicta raises some interesting tangents. Having spent some years on the deck BEING BnZed I think the goal is to get the BnZer to gradually lose E such that the fight can be fought on one's own or roughly equal terms. Flying in the direction of BUT NOT UP AT can help in this regard. It forces him to toy with a steeper angle of attack (maybe he will compress catastrophically, ie P-38 or rip a wing off --in WBs Zeke or Ki-84), and if he risks a hard pull for a deflection you are accomplishing your goal. Of course, if a competent BnZer has alt and the right ride he can refuse to be lured in. He controls his destiny---like having the "wind gauge" in the age of wooden ships and iron men. Climbing UP TO a higher con reduces one's maneuverability and seems to me NOT a good idea. Of course, finding opportunities to safely grab some alt is a good idea. It never ceases to amaze me how in AH a huge % of pilots react to all of my attacks by reversing or pulling up AS HARD AS THEY CAN towards me. They constantly put the AC in H2H mode. Often giving me a deflection or snap shot, OR I'm diving with great stability and they are wobbling near stall as they climb up----THEN they complain if I finally kill them from the front quarter. HO---is not the greatest choice and I am quite good at avoiding them---BUT many simply repeatedly offer it as the only firing solution. It was very common in the real WWII (see any Osprey series of real life accounts)---and if you are horded 1 v 6, or base defending against a swarm---any firing solution should be taken.
Of course, the dicta is a rule of thumb, applicable in most cases. There may well be situations where flight away from is better, ie, towards friendly help, or to get a slow climbing ride (like a p-47N) to make a shallow attack on a fast climber at low alt (like a Yak).
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If someone is an obvious new player I've seen people offer help. If they are average I think help isn't OFFERED much but whenever I've asked a humble good stick (don't like arrogance) I've never been turned down. Slapshot, Dedalos, Grizz, snaphook, AKAK, besides regular trainers have all been good to me when I asked for tips after being shot down repeatedly and I appreciate it.
The inflated ego idiots you mention probably will not change and if they offer to help (shoot you down some more) it will probably be to feed their own sense of self worth they get from being good at a video game.
Thanks for the mention WWM ... yes YOU were hungry for information and YOU went after it and many obliged to help and you turned out to be a hell of a pilot. Come to think of it ... your probably the last one that has asked me for help and that was quite some time ago.
I think a better question would be...
"why are these players who have little to no skill not ASKING for or seeking out help?"
Lute ... as the OP has pointed out, the great majority of people in AH have the "ultra melon" attitude that he described. Who would ever want to ask someone for help after they just gave you a dressing down on 200 to either make them look good or you bad.
Had guys like Rude, Toad, Sax, WildThing, Nomak, and most importantly in my case Leviathn, acted like the ultra melons described by the OP, I would have never asked them for help. As WWM pointed out ... these were great but HUMBLE sticks who were more than willing to help when asked and when the handed your bellybutton to ya ... never a snide remark.
1 more thing ... Beside me asking for help, I downloaded every film that Leviathn offered on the BBS, along with a few other people's films, and studied the crap out of them. I TOOK THE INITIATIVE ... I didn't wait for someone to ask me.
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You obviously have never dueled Grizz.
Name 3 player that can beat him in a duel.
Heck... name 2.
He is kinda a pick-tard in the MA though :devil
What people need to do........start taking the DA offers. You will only get better!!! I improved a ton when I started asking people to go 1v1 on 200. I learned how to E fight and rolling scissors from SunsFan, how to scrub a shot from Grizz, different merges from Agent, SEraider told me I merged too late(that little thing helped A TON), Krup showed me how to get beat by a 16 year old :cry.....the list goes on every fight is different...all the players fly differently.
:salute
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Lute ... as the OP has pointed out, the great majority of people in AH have the "ultra melon" attitude that he described. Who would ever want to ask someone for help after they just gave you a dressing down on 200 to either make them look good or you bad.
Why should they worry about what people in this game think? Everything on 200 is just venting or bantor, why not take a DA challenge and just flow with it. Me and Kil02 were going at it on 200 the other day, ended up DAing and we were cool after acouple good fights.
This guy says it best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEjbzg-wiZQ&feature=related
Havnt seen him in awhile hopes hes doing ok :salute
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Actually they ALMOST "get it" but unfort. the last piece of the puzzle is missing.
Boelke Dicta
#6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to get around his attack, but fly to meet it.
I "live" by that rule ... more than I die.
Got bounced by a high P-38 while in my F6F just yesterday.
Looking out my 6 ... he's 2.5 out ... turn into him ... he goes up ... I go slight nose down with a slight turn to the right to gain back some speed while he is doing him immel.
5 times we do this and each successive pass, I can tell he is losing some E and I am gaining E which he doesn't realize.
On the 6th pass, I can tell that he is now desperate and I have some decent E, but he is not sure of a guns solution because I keep turning into him ... so he decides to go up just prior to the merge so I follow and quickly smoke both his engines.
He panics and goes nose down and now I am on top and immediately wing over for a snapshot hitting his rudder and take it off.
He PMs me and says, and not in an "ultra melon" way, that I beat him because he lost his E.
I message him back ... "That was the plan ;-)"
Turning into you opponent provides one a much better opportunity to 1) spoil a guns solution 2) obtain angles if needed 3) live for another pass/opportunity.
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Why should they worry about what people in this game think? Everything on 200 is just venting or bantor, why not take a DA challenge and just flow with it. Me and Kil02 were going at it on 200 the other day, ended up DAing and we were cool after acouple good fights.
This guy says it best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEjbzg-wiZQ&feature=related
Havnt seen him in awhile hopes hes doing ok :salute
Me personally ...
If I just got beat by a guy and then he comes over 200 and starts taking smack ...
I laugh and say to myself what as "ultra melon" and leave it at that and I surely wouldn't be asking him for help.
I have played this game for over 8 years now and I can count on 1 hand the amount of times that I have obliged an "ultra melon" on 200. For me, it's not worth it, I don't play this game, or any game for that matter, to get into verbal noodle measuring contests ... I have always done my talking on the field of play. It works for me ... YMMV.
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Unfortunately you have a crowd that thinks that just because they put you in the tower..they have accomplished something positive. Its like taking a stick of dynamite and throwing it in the lake to catch the big one, then mounting it on your wall so you can brag to your friends.
In time people either "get it" or they don't. Face it..this is a real hard game and takes a long time to be effective. Not too many people are willing to take time to learn ACM, especially from that guy in red that's supposed to be your "mortal enemy" (standards set in today's MA).
Its very easy to get immersed into this game being how addictive it is and sometimes if you play specifically to "WIN THE WAR" or if you play because "I WANNA BE THE BESTEST PILE-IT WITH THE BESTEST SCORE" your gonna make yourself crazy. Relax, have fun..that's what the game is for.
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I remember leaving the rook side four years ago because of the "new" thing they formed back then: the LCA, which was flattening bases and steamrolling the map with giant horde missions. So it's not a new thing now, and it wasn't even back then,: I learned from older players and from browsing the BBS than such things had happened before. It's going thru cycles again and again.
You left the rooks cus of us :lol
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There's so many things I disagree with in this post. First, Grizz is a very very good virtual pilot. He flies to survive because, in almost every way, it's more challenging than turning circles on the deck. If you don't understand why this is more challenging, you're not doing it right. But if you're a circle turner, he will beat you at that too. I'm no Muppets ankle romancer but I know a good cartoon flyer when I see one.
Second, am I really "forgetting" that it is "great" ACM to HO a higher con? Really? I'm forgetting this? When you start to learn angles and E maintenence you will learn that there are many ways to neutralize an E advantage and actually get a non-HO kill. In fact, despite your bolded text, showing a diving con your six is the precursor to one of the best manuevers FOR doing this. HO'ing a higher bogey is fine, I won't hold that against you or anyone else, but don't sit here and tell us all that it is "great" ACM.
Saw a low, slow 163 last night in a remote area near one of our bases...I was fairly sure it was Grizz, as a guy I'd seen in the area earlier was complaining about something regarding their encounter....I'm thinkin..."hmm....mebbe he's trying to glide back to his base..." Anyhow, I dive on him...as I get near, I hear the rocket sound from his engine, which bodes ill (he's NOT gliding back to his base :uhoh)....he turns hard right, goes up, I go up (was doing mebbe 450-500? not sure)..in short, rocket planes have awesome acceleration rate :frown: and Grizz can get 60 kills with 60 cannon rounds
<I'd like to see a DA night with 262's/163's on 1 side, prop jobs on the other: 2 on 2...3 on 3...REALLY interesting fighting them the way the Muppets have refined the process. They don't just streak around at 600 mph on the deck awaiting a 1 on 1 to pick like most 262's--they often fly in same speed range as prop jobs, winging in pairs, often straying into gun range, but they never quite get popped. (Shortly after, ya see Kappa landing 18 kills) As much as I effing hate being around 262's, it was fun on the whole :aok>
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You left the rooks cus of us :lol
At that time, "LCA" wasn't just a single squad. It was an "alliance" made up of several different squads and individuals with actual LCA squads as a core... I remember several wings of LCA back then?
It was massive "coordinated" hording on a large scale, flattening several bases in a whole sector, then moving in for the capture. And as "success" breeds success, it attracted a lot of players, leading to an ever increasing green blob moving around.
I left because more often than not I did find myself in a sector with full green and no red darbar. And a whole evening of having to beat 5 or 6 friendlies to shoot down a single enemy isn't much fun in the long run. ;)
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At that time, "LCA" wasn't just a single squad. It was an "alliance" made up of several different squads and individuals with actual LCA squads as a core... I remember several wings of LCA back then?
It was massive "coordinated" hording on a large scale, flattening several bases in a whole sector, then moving in for the capture. And as "success" breeds success, it attracted a lot of players, leading to an ever increasing green blob moving around.
I left because more often than not I did find myself in a sector with full green and no red darbar. And a whole evening of having to beat 5 or 6 friendlies to shoot down a single enemy isn't much fun in the long run. ;)
Larger and larger % of new guys seek just that, and little else. I guess being the only green guy in a sector of 30 Lgheys and tiffies is better than the afore-mentioned scenario...but not by much
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Larger and larger % of new guys seek just that, and little else. I guess being the only green guy in a sector of 30 Lgheys and tiffies is better than the afore-mentioned scenario...but not by much
I do not agree it's a larger %.
It's a thing that goes in cycles... the LCA thing in early 2006 had a much bigger impact for a short time, and the general hording back then was in some respect even worse, because of the rules for winning the war which didn't require the 2 "bigger" countries fighting each other at any time to win the war.
A random old LCA thread from 2006: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,174313.0.html
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Texas!! :neener: :bolt:
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As a trainer I'm sometimes in the TA for an hour or more without anybody asking questions or asking for help. Other days I'm swamped in there, going from one student to the next with only breaks for food and bathroom. The help is out there for any that want to spend the time and effort to learn. I agree asking someone for help that just belittled you on 200, is a pill that I wouldn't swallow. No need to though, there's plenty of help out there from trainers and other good sticks that you can get without an attitude. All you have to do is ask in most cases :aok
:salute
BigRat
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A Head On is a basic ACM with older prop planes, the trick is to know when to pull up or down or even roll to one side or the other. Quit complaining bout Head Ons and remember it takes 2 to head on
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A Head On is a basic ACM with older prop planes, the trick is to know when to pull up or down or even roll to one side or the other. Quit complaining bout Head Ons and remember it takes 2 to head on
Head On merge? Yeah, I suppose that can be the basis to ACM -- assuming you're going to set up for a merge reversal. If you're going head on to shoot for the face then I disagree, that's not ACM.
And complaining about it won't ever sink in with every one, as most people are unwilling to get past that stage of the game. But when someone explains to a newbie that they'll never get any where with the HO and run tactics SHOCKINGLY some of the newbies attempt to learn the next step. :)
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As a corollary, and not wanting to hi-jack, to A8Tools topic: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,283972.0.html ; which I intend as a subjective critique, not a criticism, after an experience in EW last night.
I had another AH player and his squaddies, ones that I have never encountered before, start-in on 200 about me HOing him and one of his squaddies, with additional comment about my lack of skill. This came after he and his squaddies had shot me down 2 or 3 times. He was a good stick and his squads wingman tactics were excellent.
The point of this "rant" is that many posters in the other thread said (along the lines of) "yeah, it used to be less HOing, more about the fight, less about the war" and so-forth. My questions to those posters are: How many times have you asked another player if he would like to learn good ACM? I mean actually saying "hey player 'x' let me switch sides (or you switch) and I'll show you some tactics." In general, what I see and get on 200 is "u have no skillz", "go2 the TA", and "LMAO, I pwnd you seventy-leven times!!!!" NEVER, and I do mean NEVER, has any player offered to teach me to fight the fight the way they would like the fights to be like they were in their memories of the old days of AH.
So next time you kill someone fortygajillion times or get HOed, and start to grief on 200 or by PM; think about teaching them what you know and what you deem to be good AH-sportsmanship. I'm sure you will see the "quality" of the enemy pee-lots go up over time.
<checking the safety sticker on my flame-retardent undies now> :pray
Wow, not to be insulting you or taking away from the point, but ever since I started playing this game, there's always been whines about HO'ing, and squads, and thats 4 years ago this year. Just kind of weird people think that the game was completely different 3 or 4 years ago than it is now when it comes to that type of thing
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I have tried to offer what little knowledge I have to others that are newer...sometimes a change is noted.. It is after I have been shot down through my own bad judgment but also due to their lack of knowledge which is why they fly as they do...I will always state that with your change you will die a lot but you will find more fun with it...It really is a hard thing though as they will get some advice from somebody like myself and then run into somebody of a better skill level and have the same thing I have just discussed with them and had them make a change happen to them...I know this because there are a few big name guys who get scared when opposed when a slightly better skilled opponent engages and they then want to protect and keep that damned fine score they have achieved in tact...sometimes they just go for it anyway....I get a bit p'd when this happens because a few of them will cry when they have it happen to them...(runners/hoers/gangers/vultchers/pickers...you name it) So how do you try to teach a new guy not to do it when a player like myself has just stopped a guy from doing what a better player does....Who would you listen/aspire to when new and unaware of what the scoring system really means... oh and by the way this is a generalised statement, I am in no way inferring that all the top point sticks are of this nature.
But then on the other side of things if you take it in the context of all things and average out sorties V time of the real life ...and soties V time in this virtual arena are we really off on how many times these things took place...that is many of the player base would have flown more sorties in the first six weeks than the real life pilot fly during their war time life.
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I find it funny when some guys will zoom in from 20k and I will turn around go head on then they will complain because they die. they seem to forget that it is actually a great acm to face an opponent that has more e/alt than you rather than to show him/her your six or side, unless of course that plane has more firepower than you (mossies, 110's etc.). there are other ways to avoid a higher altitude plane, but its the easiest way to avoid being bnz'd a second time. anybody that gets ho'd has nobody but himself to blame. dont want to get ho'd don't go straight at another plane and if you do and die then its you who needs to learn some acm :bolt:
semp
Yeah that's one way to handle it, I find it far more satisfying and challenging to show my six to that higher con and let him think he has a guns solution right up until the point where I snatch it away from him and get a snapshot as he shoots past. :)
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Yeah that's one way to handle it, I find it far more satisfying and challenging to show my six to that higher con and let him think he has a guns solution right up until the point where I snatch it away from him and get a snapshot as he shoots past. :)
Same, except for the shooting him part...but at least I can get them to pucker at the thought that this could be it for them.. :D
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As a trainer I'm sometimes in the TA for an hour or more without anybody asking questions or asking for help. Other days I'm swamped in there, going from one student to the next with only breaks for food and bathroom. The help is out there for any that want to spend the time and effort to learn. I agree asking someone for help that just belittled you on 200, is a pill that I wouldn't swallow. No need to though, there's plenty of help out there from trainers and other good sticks that you can get without an attitude. All you have to do is ask in most cases :aok
:salute
BigRat
I can attest to all of this. BigRat and morfiend, both trainers, are in the TA EVERY afternoon--both full of knowledge and great teachers. Ghosth is another trainer that is in there almost every afternoon. Along with the trainers, there are several good sticks that spend a lot of time there, yet the # of people showing any sign of WANTING to learn is slim to none.
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Yeah that's one way to handle it, I find it far more satisfying and challenging to show my six to that higher con and let him think he has a guns solution right up until the point where I snatch it away from him and get a snapshot as he shoots past. :)
Yeah I prefer that option as well Soulyss. I don't like the fly straight at them option - they will shoot - and I think they are more likely to hit a front deflection when you are dodging the HO , than the type of reversal you are talking about, it is actually easier to stay out of a guns solution by using the speed/energy against them.
The climb up to meet them coming down option is just a recipe for getting HO'd because you don't have the speed to get out of the way when you need to. It's also a great way to get roped if the attacker knows what hes doing, bacause he'll just pause the attack , fly a little circle over your head until you stall, and take you out .
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Me personally ...
If I just got beat by a guy and then he comes over 200 and starts taking smack ...
I laugh and say to myself what as "ultra melon" and leave it at that and I surely wouldn't be asking him for help.
I have played this game for over 8 years now and I can count on 1 hand the amount of times that I have obliged an "ultra melon" on 200. For me, it's not worth it, I don't play this game, or any game for that matter, to get into verbal noodle measuring contests ... I have always done my talking on the field of play. It works for me ... YMMV.
Ah your talking about those guys......the ones who kill you whe your heavy and say....owned on 200. yea i agree
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Same, except for the shooting him part...but at least I can get them to pucker at the thought that this could be it for them.. :D
Oh I miss that shot probably 80% of the time, but when it works it's oh so very satisfying. What's more this approach gives the attacker a much harder shot. I consider in most cases the HO is a 50-50 proposition. Sure there are aircraft gun packages and relative durability to factor in but in most cases I figure my odds are better by going to an maneuver fight and seeking a shot that doesn't expose me to return fire.
To speak to the OP's first post, while I don't consider myself a top notch stick here by any means I think I'm above average and I'm more than happy to at least attempt to pass on some of the knowledge I've picked up over the 10 years or so I've been playing this silly game. I've said it before and I'll say it again I'm more than happy to answer any questions I can, all people have to do is politely ask. I think players should be pushing themselves to improve their skills, but it all has to happen at each individuals pace, it's not for me to dictate the time and place for lessons.