Author Topic: The current state of Aces High...  (Read 3469 times)

Offline Plawranc

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2010, 02:36:33 AM »
When I have a really good fight in MA I pm the guy telling him so.

We compare notes and if they ask I readily help them in DA 1v1s. My reasoning is: if you teach a man to fight you help him get a kill. Teach him how to duel and you help him become a pro.
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Offline Yeager

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2010, 03:32:52 AM »
Geeze just play the game and shut up.  Bunch of hoardin hoing picking drama queens.

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Offline trotter

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2010, 04:16:29 AM »
flying around in a 262 or the other runner planes he flies picking people off doesnt make a great player.  I've seen him fite and he's better than me, but there are dozens of other guys that dont make the top that are way better players.  but he pays his monthly dues and he flies however he likes the game,  I am cool with that.

I find it funny when some guys will zoom in from 20k and I will turn around go head on then they will complain because they die.  they seem to forget that it is actually a great acm to face an opponent that has more e/alt than you rather than to show him/her your six or side, unless of course that plane has more firepower than you (mossies, 110's etc.).  there are other ways to avoid a higher altitude plane, but its the easiest way to avoid being bnz'd a second time.  anybody that gets ho'd has nobody but himself to blame.  dont want to get ho'd don't go straight at another plane and if you do and die then its you who needs to learn some acm  :bolt:

There's so many things I disagree with in this post. First, Grizz is a very very good virtual pilot. He flies to survive because, in almost every way, it's more challenging than turning circles on the deck. If you don't understand why this is more challenging, you're not doing it right. But if you're a circle turner, he will beat you at that too. I'm no Muppets ankle romancer but I know a good cartoon flyer when I see one.

Second, am I really "forgetting" that it is "great" ACM to HO a higher con? Really? I'm forgetting this? When you start to learn angles and E maintenence you will learn that there are many ways to neutralize an E advantage and actually get a non-HO kill. In fact, despite your bolded text, showing a diving con your six is the precursor to one of the best manuevers FOR doing this. HO'ing a higher bogey is fine, I won't hold that against you or anyone else, but don't sit here and tell us all that it is "great" ACM.

Offline WMLute

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2010, 05:43:25 AM »


Second, am I really "forgetting" that it is "great" ACM to HO a higher con? Really? I'm forgetting this? When you start to learn angles and E maintenence you will learn that there are many ways to neutralize an E advantage and actually get a non-HO kill. In fact, despite your bolded text, showing a diving con your six is the precursor to one of the best manuevers FOR doing this. HO'ing a higher bogey is fine, I won't hold that against you or anyone else, but don't sit here and tell us all that it is "great" ACM.

Actually they ALMOST "get it" but unfort. the last piece of the puzzle is missing.

Boelke Dicta
#6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to get around his attack, but fly to meet it.


It floors me that so many people translate the above into "go for the HO".  
(sigh)

Go look up the Wiki article on the Boelke Dicta.  Some moron even gave their interpretation of #6 and ended it with "it was better to try to bring one's own guns to bear than to flee"
(almost wonder if that is where guncrasher got his mis-info from)


I can list numerous reasons why Dicta # 6 is a very good and quite smart thing for one to do.  None of them have anything to do with going for a HO shot.  (which is really a stupid move if you want to live)

Turning to meet an attacker who is + Alt/E on you is a great idea from a positional perspective.  You are not only giving you opponent a tough shot to try and make but you are also bleeding their Energy and putting them OUT of position if they do decide to force the shot.  (simply give them what looks like a shot, and make sure you ain't there when they pull the trigger)  

Not to mention that you are dictating what moves your opponent makes to get that shot.  (which is somewhat an advanced concept but you really can use this to your advantage.  Planes that turn better to the left make sure you are forcing them into a right hand turn to try and hit what they think is a shot)

By "going for it" they are suddenly in all kinds of trouble.  Even if they immediately extend they are giving you breathing room, you have gained both Energy and separation, and they have LOST energy in the process.  They will have to burn even more E if they reverse and try to setup another pass on you.  Heck... 1-5 failed passes like that (depends on how dumb they are) and suddenly you are both co-E AND you now have a positional advantage.

I have lost count the number of opponents who have attack me with alt/E and end up dead not much later with me on their 6 shooting 'em out of the sky.



(Edit: Just to add...   If your opponent goes for the shot and then tries to MANEUVER with you they are in a world of hurt and you hold most all the cards at that point.  With just a tiny bit of practice you can be killing THOSE types in 1-3 moves)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 07:16:37 AM by WMLute »
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Offline Slate

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2010, 08:10:49 AM »
  When I was new I never tuned to 200. Mostly whiners complaining how they got beat. I played my own game and worked on my skills (never stop learning).  :joystick: Now I tune to 200 for the entertainment and communicate with those that I've had good fights with. I think EW is a bad place to learn, go to LW and find some fights where you can learn. Fly with friendlies around for support and watch what they do. A squad that goes to EW and picks on unskilled lone pilots are really the lame ones not you. 
I always wanted to fight an impossible battle against incredible odds.

Offline Impakt

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2010, 08:32:43 AM »
(1) It is useful to avail oneself of the expertise of others. I learned a great deal from former squadmates (Parrots) in the former game (WBs). All of them but Dhyran, Drache (now Boozeman), Flubby, Kazz, and Rulo (MrRulo) were especially helpful. I've actually changed quite a bit from a turn, burn, reverse, re-up into one who enjoys the rtb, thinking a bit, and BnZ. I'll still up at a CV melee and have at it, but not the norm.

(2) It is ultimately a game, played for private reasons or perhaps no coherent reasons at all. So, it is, IMO, a matter of personal choice whether one wants to apply the "protestant work ethic" to the game. It would be nice if the insults, excuses, trash talking were not there---but civility is rare in our world.

(3) The Boelke Dicta  raises some interesting tangents. Having spent some years on the deck BEING BnZed I think the goal is to get the BnZer to gradually lose E such that the fight can be fought on one's own or roughly equal terms. Flying in the direction of BUT NOT UP AT can help in this regard. It forces him to toy with a steeper angle of attack (maybe he will compress catastrophically, ie P-38 or rip a wing off --in WBs Zeke or Ki-84), and if he risks a hard pull for a deflection you are accomplishing your goal. Of course, if a competent BnZer has alt and the right ride he can refuse to be lured in. He controls his destiny---like having the "wind gauge" in the age of wooden ships and iron men. Climbing UP TO a higher con reduces one's maneuverability and seems to me NOT a good idea. Of course, finding opportunities to safely grab some alt is a good idea.  It never ceases to amaze me how in AH a huge % of pilots react to all of my attacks by reversing or pulling up AS HARD AS  THEY CAN  towards me. They constantly put the AC in H2H mode. Often giving me a deflection or snap shot, OR I'm diving with great stability and they are wobbling near stall as they climb up----THEN they complain if I finally kill them from the front quarter. HO---is not the greatest choice and I am quite good at avoiding them---BUT many simply repeatedly offer it as the only firing solution. It was very common in the real WWII (see any Osprey series of real life accounts)---and if you are horded 1 v 6, or base defending against a swarm---any firing solution should be taken.
    Of course, the dicta is a rule of thumb, applicable in most cases. There may well be situations where flight away from is better, ie, towards friendly help, or to get a slow climbing ride (like a p-47N) to make a shallow attack on a fast climber at low alt (like a Yak).
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 08:44:33 AM by Impakt »


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Offline SlapShot

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2010, 08:34:06 AM »
If someone is an obvious new player I've seen people offer help.  If they are average I think help isn't OFFERED much but whenever I've asked a humble good stick (don't like arrogance) I've never been turned down.  Slapshot, Dedalos, Grizz, snaphook, AKAK,  besides regular trainers have all been good to me when I asked for tips after being shot down repeatedly and I appreciate it.

    The inflated ego idiots you mention probably will not change and if they offer to help (shoot you down some more) it will probably be to feed their own sense of self worth they get from being good at a video game.

Thanks for the mention WWM ... yes YOU were hungry for information and YOU went after it and many obliged to help and you turned out to be a hell of a pilot. Come to think of it ... your probably the last one that has asked me for help and that was quite some time ago.

I think a better question would be...

"why are these players who have little to no skill not ASKING for or seeking out help?"

Lute ... as the OP has pointed out, the great majority of people in AH have the "ultra melon" attitude that he described. Who would ever want to ask someone for help after they just gave you a dressing down on 200 to either make them look good or you bad.

Had guys like Rude, Toad, Sax, WildThing, Nomak, and most importantly in my case Leviathn, acted like the ultra melons described by the OP, I would have never asked them for help. As WWM pointed out ... these were great but HUMBLE sticks who were more than willing to help when asked and when the handed your bellybutton to ya ... never a snide remark.

1 more thing ... Beside me asking for help, I downloaded every film that Leviathn offered on the BBS, along with a few other people's films, and studied the crap out of them. I TOOK THE INITIATIVE ... I didn't wait for someone to ask me.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2010, 08:40:06 AM »
You obviously have never dueled Grizz.

Name 3 player that can beat him in a duel.

Heck... name 2.
He is kinda a pick-tard in the MA though :devil


What people need to do........start taking the DA offers. You will only get better!!! I improved a ton when I started asking people to go 1v1 on 200. I learned how to E fight and rolling scissors from SunsFan, how to scrub a shot from Grizz, different merges from Agent, SEraider told me I merged too late(that little thing helped A TON), Krup showed me how to get beat by a 16 year old :cry.....the list goes on every fight is different...all the players fly differently.

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Offline JunkyII

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2010, 08:50:35 AM »
Lute ... as the OP has pointed out, the great majority of people in AH have the "ultra melon" attitude that he described. Who would ever want to ask someone for help after they just gave you a dressing down on 200 to either make them look good or you bad.
Why should they worry about what people in this game think? Everything on 200 is just venting or bantor, why not take a DA challenge and just flow with it. Me and Kil02 were going at it on 200 the other day, ended up DAing and we were cool after acouple good fights.

This guy says it best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEjbzg-wiZQ&feature=related

Havnt seen him in awhile hopes hes doing ok :salute
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Offline SlapShot

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2010, 08:55:15 AM »
Actually they ALMOST "get it" but unfort. the last piece of the puzzle is missing.

Boelke Dicta
#6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to get around his attack, but fly to meet it.

I "live" by that rule ... more than I die.

Got bounced by a high P-38 while in my F6F just yesterday.

Looking out my 6 ... he's 2.5 out ... turn into him ... he goes up ... I go slight nose down with a slight turn to the right to gain back some speed while he is doing him immel.

5 times we do this and each successive pass, I can tell he is losing some E and I am gaining E which he doesn't realize.

On the 6th pass, I can tell that he is now desperate and I have some decent E, but he is not sure of a guns solution because I keep turning into him ... so he decides to go up just prior to the merge so I follow and quickly smoke both his engines.

He panics and goes nose down and now I am on top and immediately wing over for a snapshot hitting his rudder and take it off.

He PMs me and says, and not in an "ultra melon" way, that I beat him because he lost his E.

I message him back ... "That was the plan ;-)"

Turning into you opponent provides one a much better opportunity to 1) spoil a guns solution 2) obtain angles if needed 3) live for another pass/opportunity.
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Offline SlapShot

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2010, 09:08:42 AM »
Why should they worry about what people in this game think? Everything on 200 is just venting or bantor, why not take a DA challenge and just flow with it. Me and Kil02 were going at it on 200 the other day, ended up DAing and we were cool after acouple good fights.

This guy says it best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEjbzg-wiZQ&feature=related

Havnt seen him in awhile hopes hes doing ok :salute

Me personally ...

If I just got beat by a guy and then he comes over 200 and starts taking smack ...

I laugh and say to myself what as "ultra melon" and leave it at that and I surely wouldn't be asking him for help.

I have played this game for over 8 years now and I can count on 1 hand the amount of times that I have obliged an "ultra melon" on 200. For me, it's not worth it, I don't play this game, or any game for that matter, to get into verbal noodle measuring contests ... I have always done my talking on the field of play. It works for me ... YMMV.
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Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2010, 09:12:01 AM »
Unfortunately you have a crowd that thinks that just because they put you in the tower..they have accomplished something positive. Its like taking a stick of dynamite and throwing it in the lake to catch the big one, then mounting it on your wall so you can brag to your friends.
In time people either "get it" or they don't. Face it..this is a real hard game and takes a long time to be effective. Not too many people are willing to take time to learn ACM, especially from that guy in red that's supposed to be your "mortal enemy" (standards set in today's MA).
Its very easy to get immersed into this game being how addictive it is and sometimes if you play specifically to "WIN THE WAR" or if you play because "I WANNA BE THE BESTEST PILE-IT WITH THE BESTEST SCORE" your gonna make yourself crazy. Relax, have fun..that's what the game is for.
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Offline HighTone

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2010, 09:24:03 AM »


I remember leaving the rook side four years ago because of the "new" thing they formed back then: the LCA, which was flattening bases and steamrolling the map with giant horde missions. So it's not a new thing now, and it wasn't even back then,: I learned from older players and from browsing the BBS than such things had happened before. It's going thru cycles again and again.




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Offline bj229r

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2010, 09:28:26 AM »
There's so many things I disagree with in this post. First, Grizz is a very very good virtual pilot. He flies to survive because, in almost every way, it's more challenging than turning circles on the deck. If you don't understand why this is more challenging, you're not doing it right. But if you're a circle turner, he will beat you at that too. I'm no Muppets ankle romancer but I know a good cartoon flyer when I see one.

Second, am I really "forgetting" that it is "great" ACM to HO a higher con? Really? I'm forgetting this? When you start to learn angles and E maintenence you will learn that there are many ways to neutralize an E advantage and actually get a non-HO kill. In fact, despite your bolded text, showing a diving con your six is the precursor to one of the best manuevers FOR doing this. HO'ing a higher bogey is fine, I won't hold that against you or anyone else, but don't sit here and tell us all that it is "great" ACM.
Saw a low, slow 163 last night in a remote area near one of our bases...I was fairly sure it was Grizz, as a guy I'd seen in the area earlier was complaining about something regarding their encounter....I'm thinkin..."hmm....mebbe he's trying to glide back to his base..." Anyhow, I dive on him...as I get near, I hear the rocket sound from his engine, which bodes ill (he's NOT gliding back to his base :uhoh)....he turns hard right, goes up, I go up (was doing mebbe 450-500? not sure)..in short, rocket planes have awesome acceleration rate :frown: and Grizz can get 60 kills with 60 cannon rounds

<I'd like to see a DA night with 262's/163's on 1 side, prop jobs on the other: 2 on 2...3 on 3...REALLY interesting fighting them the way the Muppets have refined the process. They don't just streak around at 600 mph on the deck awaiting a 1 on 1 to pick like most 262's--they often fly in same speed range as prop jobs, winging in pairs, often straying into gun range, but they never quite get popped. (Shortly after, ya see Kappa landing 18 kills) As much as I effing hate being around 262's, it was fun on the whole :aok>
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 09:36:51 AM by bj229r »
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Offline Lusche

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Re: The current state of Aces High...
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2010, 09:33:19 AM »


You left the rooks cus of us  :lol



At that time, "LCA" wasn't just a single squad. It was an "alliance"  made up of several different squads and individuals with actual LCA squads as a core... I remember several wings of LCA back then?
It was massive "coordinated" hording on a large scale, flattening several bases in a whole sector, then moving in for the capture. And as "success" breeds success, it attracted a lot of players, leading to an ever increasing green blob moving around.

I left because more often than not I did find myself in a sector with full green and no red darbar. And a whole evening of having to beat 5 or 6 friendlies to shoot down a single enemy isn't much fun in the long run. ;)
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