Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Saurdaukar on February 22, 2010, 10:48:30 AM
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I can't be the first to realize just how awesome the 11 is. Screw the M.
My 109 fetish is in serious danger of being supplanted by a sexual innuendo-laced milk bottle.
BUT... wish it had more twisty-type tricks. Vet 47 drivers: in a near-stall speed rolling scissor on the deck (read: no alt to recover E), is the torque produced by the P&W simply not capable of twisting the aircraft around and over the top or an I doing something wrong?
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I pick the N over any of them. Whooped many a M driver in a N model! :noid
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Your doing something wrong, a seasoned P-47 pilot can keep her flying and pulling the nose around.
Over the top you will see 50-70 mph, just enough to keep the bird from falling out of the sky.....
Film would help!
Strip
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I can't be the first to realize just how awesome the 11 is. Screw the M.
My 109 fetish is in serious danger of being supplanted by a sexual innuendo-laced milk bottle.
BUT... wish it had more twisty-type tricks. Vet 47 drivers: in a near-stall speed rolling scissor on the deck (read: no alt to recover E), is the torque produced by the P&W simply not capable of twisting the aircraft around and over the top or an I doing something wrong?
I bet if you hit your WEP at the top, you will get a bit of engine torque. The nice thing about all the jugs is that they are so heavy that the engine's torque effect is minimal compared to the likes of the 109. Its heavy size also means the gun platform is more stable too. However, you you put your jug into a 50-75mph stall with your nose pointed straight up, the torque will pull your plane to the left. I have flown the jug for a long time, and one of the things you want to avoid is sustained vertical manuevers. Utilize more high and low yo-yos instead. The jug can hold E forever, but can bleed it in a fraction of a second if youre not careful. Smooth stick control and E management is critical for success in the jug. :salute
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Sometimes, you are stuck in such situation that you don't have a choice and you must roll to the right at the top to win the scissor reversal. If a R/H snap roll doesn't do the trick, do it with chopped throttle(just for a fraction of a second), even with 100ft of play. Don't even think of just using the ailerons to roll you around. Otherwise, you are just too slow already and its best just to try to keep its nose up or knife it down quickly.
I don't fly the D11 much but it still does very well compared to other more powerful Jugs. Even though it turns slightly better, it can only do so for a very short time. But with those 8 cals, it just takes 1 or 2 turns with good aim and its over. Very vulnerable against E fighters though (K4, P38, La7, etc) .. as long as they don't turn with you :devil
Too bad I didn't film the D11 deck turn fight I had VS a zeke a long time ago... lasted for 5 mins and finally shot him down (had to extend 2-3 times)... couldn't believe it :O
Great bird. :cheers:
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Plazus I think you're confusing engine torque with the torque effect of the spiral slipstream.
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The nice thing about all the jugs is that they are so heavy that the engine's torque effect is minimal compared to the likes of the 109. Its heavy size also means the gun platform is more stable too.
Answer I was looking for - thanks. :aok
(Others: "Over the top" was a poor choice of words. Not sure what else to call the very top of a rolling scissor as one firewalls (or chops) the throttle to roll the AC at low speed in the absence of any real control surface authority.)
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I pick the N over any of them. Whooped many a M driver in a N model! :noid
Yup, haven't been kilt yet by an M--get them to drain off some of their light speed, and they are toast
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the D11 certainly "feels" the lightest of the jugs. only its anemic climb and acceleration cause me to choose the M over it, but even still I take it sometimes just because.
get in a nice full flap wallow fest on the deck and if you fly the jug to its full potential the other guy will very often either just run out of fly and auger, or will give you the passing shot you need, which with 8 50s doesn't need to be much for very long.
its not a VERY agile aircraft, but it IS more agile than most people expect, which is where its lethality is, all to often the other guy assumes you cannot match his turn or manuever and by the time he realizes his error, hes in the tower still hearing the hit sounds for several seconds.
2 tips:
1: unless your going on a dedicated bomber hunt, take the light ammo load 8 gun pack, it gives you a little extra climb and overall maneuverability, which in a jug can mean the edge ya need, and you still have over 2000 rounds, more than enough to shoot down a couple sets of buffs should the opportunity arise.
2: if you take 3/4 or a full tank, make sure you switch to the main and leave the AUX with a 1/4 in it. the jug (in AH) is notorious for getting main fuel hit, and it drains QUICK.. and its pretty much a death sentence unless your at 20k or right next to your base. Oil on the other hand.. you have the middle east in your plane, she will go several sectors with an oil leak.
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if you take 3/4 or a full tank, make sure you switch to the main and leave the AUX with a 1/4 in it.
Great suggestion! :aok
Does it affect maneuverability if running on the AUX tank with the MAIN fully drained?
Thanks,
Slade :salute
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I have been leaving the aux tank half full.
Your comments about the main's propensity to attract fast-flying, cone-shaped pieces of metal have been observed. :D
Why does the D-11 seem to carry less fuel than all other Jugs? I know the N has those extra 18 inches for the wing tanks, but all the other D's and the M, so far as I can tell, simply seem to have a larger main tank. Is this true?
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I have been leaving the aux tank half full.
Your comments about the main's propensity to attract fast-flying, cone-shaped pieces of metal have been observed. :D
Why does the D-11 seem to carry less fuel than all other Jugs? I know the N has those extra 18 inches for the wing tanks, but all the other D's and the M, so far as I can tell, simply seem to have a larger main tank. Is this true?
The late model D Jugs had a larger main tank than the early Ds. Its represented in the difference in fuel load (75 gallons I think) between the D-11 and the D-25, D-40, and M. As far as fuel load affecting the stability of the Jug, both the main and aux tanks are located very close to the center of gravity and therefore, don't cause a large problem for manual fuel selection. I feel the extra weight in turning or climbing, but not in stability.
The roll rate, on the other hand, IMO, is noticeably affected by the extra ammo in the wings (or by the extra fuel in the N Jug). I almost always fly with the light 8X load.
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make sure you switch to the main and leave the AUX with a 1/4 in it.
I leave 1/4-1/3 in the aux, thats about a sector to get you home. I see I'm not the only one ;)
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I have been leaving the aux tank half full.
Your comments about the main's propensity to attract fast-flying, cone-shaped pieces of metal have been observed. :D
Why does the D-11 seem to carry less fuel than all other Jugs? I know the N has those extra 18 inches for the wing tanks, but all the other D's and the M, so far as I can tell, simply seem to have a larger main tank. Is this true?
:lol :lol :lol
I guess if ya are used to 109's, trying to see stuff out of D-11 isn't so big a deal. Aside from that, I'd probably only fly it (instead of N). Dunno, maybe if I just flew the thing nonstop for a month, I'd get used to it, like pedals. Anyhow, main in 'N' has same cone-shaped-thingie issue. Take off with 75%, run main dry, have about 17 min left in aux/wings. What's cool about latest fix, when I get the inevitable 'main fuel hit', it quits smoking when it's dry, so you aren't so much a bleeding animal in a tank of sharks, looking for the wounded one
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Im curious why some of you would choose the N over the M?
Range isnt an issue in the MA. All Jugs are already strapped with hardpoints so taking a DT and dropping it provides no extra penalty... and the N's wing tanks, empty, must add more weight.
The rate of role must be slower as the wings are longer... but does that create more surface area, in spite of the clipped tips, improving loading?
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Im curious why some of you would choose the N over the M?
Range isnt an issue in the MA. All Jugs are already strapped with hardpoints so taking a DT and dropping it provides no extra penalty... and the N's wing tanks, empty, must add more weight.
The rate of role must be slower as the wings are longer... but does that create more surface area, in spite of the clipped tips, improving loading?
I've been flying N for a couple years or so...It's fast enough and rolls well enough to be competitive with most late-war birds when not flying with wingies, unlike D-40. (Obviously, tons more efficient killers to fly) Jumped into M when it came out, was easy to slaughter people at first....but the more I flew it like N, the harder it was to survive...frikking thing falls outta the sky like a D9 (even at well-above stall speeds) in many lower-speed situations, whereas N hangs in there with the extra wing surface, like a glider or 152. I just never had FUN flying the M (besides, tons of Lgay pukes fly it...SAME frikkin way they fly the Lgay...and words fail me in describing how much I hate LGheys :furious). I'm slightly above average as a stick...would PROBably be better with a more competitive ride like M or 1A... but I have fun flying N. Prolly would have quit game some time ago had it been dropped
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I'm with bj. Been flying the N for about a year and a half. Tried the M when it came out. Really the only thing it has going for it is speed. There's just something about the N i love. Something about the way it handles. The M reminds me of a D-25 the way it handles in some situations. Plus it's fun to shoot down the M dweebs while in a N! :neener:
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Agree. You get the N very light, say around 1/4 tank of fuel and about 800 rpg left, and it really begins to behave nicely. The wingloading really comes down once you get in that 12,000 lb range and it just feels more maneuverable and feisty.
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D-11 is my favorite right after the Hog's
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Answered my own question.
The N does, in fact, have a 22SF advantage in wing area over the D/M wing.
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Answered my own question.
The N does, in fact, have a 22SF advantage in wing area over the D/M wing.
Yah...guns further from center as well...everything is different. Heap much steadier plane tho. (helps to manage wep carefully)..would love to see what someone like Grizz could do with it over a camp
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I've seen it. It wasn't pretty.
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Guess I must a been doing something wrong...... :headscratch: I always liked jugs, but felt like a slug most of the time. I just hopped back on and discovered the M....man was I happy! Me and the M model were just meant for each other I guess, idk how to explain it. Im a descent pilot and was usually pretty descent flying jugs, but this bird is something different. You guys fly your N's and I'll keep meh M :airplane:
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From www.cradleofaviation.org
The XP-47N took to the air for the first time on July 22, 1944. Test comparisons were made with a P-47D-30-RE throughout the early portion of the evaluation period. Much to everyone’s surprise, the XP-47N, with its greater wingspan and higher weight actually proved to have better roll performance than the D model. At 250 mph TAS, the N attained a maximum roll rate just over 100 degrees/second. The P-47D-30-RE could manage but 85 degrees/second at the same speed. At higher speeds, the N widened the gap further. In mock combat with a P-47D-25-RE, the new fighter proved to be notably superior in every category of performance. In short, the XP-47 waxed the venerable D model regardless of who was piloting the older fighter. The new wing was part of this newfound dogfighting ability, however, the more powerful C series engine played a role too. The additional horsepower allowed the N to retain its energy better than the older Thunderbolt. Perhaps the greatest performance increase was in maximum speed. Though not as fast as the stunning P-47M, the heavier N was fully 40 mph faster than the P-47D-25-RE and could generate speeds 30 mph greater than its principal rival, the Mustang. Scorching along at 467 mph @ 32,000 ft., the N could not be caught by any fighter in regular service with any air force on earth with the single exception of its M model sibling. This combination of wing and engine had pushed the N model up to the top rank of the superlative prop driven fighters then in existence.
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From www.cradleofaviation.org
In my opinion, the P-47N model was the most advanced and capable American fighter to see combat. While the M is a hotrod, I still prefer the N in game.
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Seeing as I am fool enough to take a Jug up from a capped field and play on the deck, I like something light. I agree the drawback in the Razorback is internal fuel, but it is just such a good LOOKING plane. The N is nice, and I LOVE the skins for it, but I cannot stand those square wings. The filet on the spine is a nice feature, better than the D-25, but you just cannot beat the classic razorback. The only thing I don't like about her is her climb rate (My other love being the Bf-109) and her flat speed. Nothing pisses me off more than to work a Pony or an Lghey into a nice shot, be JUST out of range, and have him level out and extend with no hope of catching him.
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I bet if you hit your WEP at the top, you will get a bit of engine torque. The nice thing about all the jugs is that they are so heavy that the engine's torque effect is minimal compared to the likes of the 109. Its heavy size also means the gun platform is more stable too. However, you you put your jug into a 50-75mph stall with your nose pointed straight up, the torque will pull your plane to the left. I have flown the jug for a long time, and one of the things you want to avoid is sustained vertical maneuvers. Utilize more high and low yo-yos instead. The jug can hold E forever, but can bleed it in a fraction of a second if youre not careful. Smooth stick control and E management is critical for success in the jug. :salute
+1 I agree and the N is superior! I get killed a lot easier in the M. All it has is higher top speed because of dumping all the ord hangers and a slight engine tweak. The N turns tighter, and has larger wing area as well. :salute
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One thing I do *not* like is the attention. :rolleyes:
Nine guys on your six and the tenth one will still dive down from the stratosphere to get a shot at you.
Odd behavior.
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One thing I do *not* like is the attention. :rolleyes:
Nine guys on your six and the tenth one will still dive down from the stratosphere to get a shot at you.
Odd behavior.
Yah, ANY jug in a furball is the equivalent of flying low lancs past a gaggle of tempests, they all drop whatever they are doing to shoot the big fat noisy Amuuricn plane
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One thing I do *not* like is the attention. :rolleyes:
Nine guys on your six and the tenth one will still dive down from the stratosphere to get a shot at you.
Odd behavior.
Ya! What is that? The jug runs away better than most, as long as you have some room to dive and wep left, but people will come from other fights just to chase a jug-N? Colors? More attention getting color scheme? :rolleyes:
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Its because shooting down Jugs is a butt-load cooler than killing Spits... Unless they're simply bomb-trucking, you've probably just got the drop on one of the better sticks in the game... ;)
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Its because shooting down Jugs is a butt-load cooler than killing Spits... Unless they're simply bomb-trucking, you've probably just got the drop on one of the better sticks in the game... ;)
But its not as cool as 8-.50cals shredding both wings of a spitty from wingtip to wingtip; and leaving behind a million pieces of spitfire salvage! :banana:
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I can't be the first to realize just how awesome the 11 is. Screw the M.
My 109 fetish is in serious danger of being supplanted by a sexual innuendo-laced milk bottle.
BUT... wish it had more twisty-type tricks. Vet 47 drivers: in a near-stall speed rolling scissor on the deck (read: no alt to recover E), is the torque produced by the P&W simply not capable of twisting the aircraft around and over the top or an I doing something wrong?
The real trick is setting it into the roll, starting it, chopping the throttle, setting rudder and elevator, then slamming the throttle home to the firewall, and punching WEP.
That'll get ya around real quick.
Another thing to play with is flaps. one notch shy of full out is plenty for rollin scissor work, while dropping that last bit increases your lift just enough to tighten those maneuvers significantly.
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The real trick is setting it into the roll, starting it, chopping the throttle, setting rudder and elevator, then slamming the throttle home to the firewall, and punching WEP.
That'll get ya around real quick.
Another thing to play with is flaps. one notch shy of full out is plenty for rollin scissor work, while dropping that last bit increases your lift just enough to tighten those maneuvers significantly.
need film... :salute
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heres a bit of rolling scissors, excuse the spraying my gunnery isnt usually that bad :uhoh
http://www.lumbergh.aquiss.com/ah/ah_films/d25_reverse_dora.ahf (http://www.lumbergh.aquiss.com/ah/ah_films/d25_reverse_dora.ahf)
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need film... :salute
No problem. PM me your email address and I'll send ya some film of a fight or two. I should be flying tonight so it'll be fresh coverage.
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I don't like to promote my own stuff but there is plenty of rolling scissors in those films: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,283324.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,283324.0.html)
A couple of them I needed to fight the torque with all the Jug had got to turn me in the direction I wanted.need film... :salute
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Sorry...what is a .rar format? What will view it? :headscratch:
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Sorry...what is a .rar format? What will view it? :headscratch:
Read the instructions, its a Winrar/WinZip file. Decompress it and all .ahf films are inside.
There: http://download.cnet.com/WinRAR-32-bit/3000-2250_4-10007677.html (http://download.cnet.com/WinRAR-32-bit/3000-2250_4-10007677.html)
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Read the instructions, its a Winrar/WinZip file. Decompress it and all .ahf films are inside.
There: http://download.cnet.com/WinRAR-32-bit/3000-2250_4-10007677.html (http://download.cnet.com/WinRAR-32-bit/3000-2250_4-10007677.html)
Thanks...googled it and downloaded WinRAR.
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If you interested in flying jugs well, I'd advise talking to JUGgler. He has to be one of the best jug pilots in the game.
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He certainly has the most sorties
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If you wish to know who flies the Jug well, check the various models stats....then click on the model and find out who has the kills and k/d flying them.
Btw....I stall fight the D11 otd....it is a marvel, I also fight it at 20K and above, as I did with Jamusta a few days ago, he in a K4 and me in a D11.
The fight was a huge amount of fun, it came out a draw, no one had pings on him and no one made a mistake. We had loads of fun doing this
until the FHs at the base were taken down. Jamusta and I just <S> one another and said we would do it again.
IMHO a D40 can do the same thing at 20K that an M Jug can do. The N to me accelerates poorly and is a slug climbing without wep below 20K and
that is comparing it with the other Jug Models. I use the Nathan for jabo....the D11 for fighting. It is more critical to measure ones energy flying the N
then the D11 IMHO. Both require monitoring the E state...but the N requires much more attention below 20K.
Again using flaps and throttle is important, but most critical is the time and place in the fight in which you use wep, or deploy flaps.
Remember...since the Jug is a heavy aircraft using them for a prolonged period of time slows you down to a point at which the Energy you need is
no longer there. Learn to cycle flaps, as well as throttle and wep. If you keep the flaps down and the fight goes from horizontal to a tad vertical,
and you need a "tad" nose up to get the shot....you might not have it. And once the Jug pilot reaches that state, no chance of even getting a hint of nose up,
a good pilot in another aircraft will have you on the ropes. He will then dictate the fight to you. Unless you can regain some speed which means
having the room to do so, more then likely the SpitXVI, Yak9U etc. will have you in the tower shortly. However, the Jug flies very very well at dead slow.
this requires a lot of rudder, and I do mean A LOT! Your feet will be going like crazy keeping your wings parallel with the ground. You will actually
get kills for those who are impatient and go for an angle they can't sustain and auger.
Again....these are just thoughts on my experiences....others may differ.
Hajo
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Ya never see him on 200 or on BBS, but from what I've seen over time, Croft is as good or better than any jug guy in the game
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Rattler2 is one of the best Jug pilots I've seen as well. He handles them in the vertical scissors like feathers swept away from a faint gush of wind --> :joystick:
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To get comfortable flying it I first started de-acking V bases and being a bomb**** just for practice. I feel a lot more comfortable with it...enough to stop running every time my ords are all gone. Watching video's, talking to good stix, all helps. :salute The problem I'm dealing with now, is I often love flying different aircraft. Whenever I have excelled, in the past, it's because I have stayed in one aircraft long enough to be very familiar with the many subtle nuances each has. They are each, nearly as different as women are one from another. :joystick: :old:
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Yup, haven't been kilt yet by an M--get them to drain off some of their light speed, and they are toast
Late War Tour 122
bj229r killed by a
P-47M by player name
Killer Player Name Killed Percent
mantis 1 100.000
1 Kills
Late War Tour 119
bj229r killed by a
P-47M by player name
Killer Player Name Killed Percent
UbrMedic 1 100.000
1 Kills
ate War Tour 118
bj229r killed by a
P-47M by player name
Killer Player Name Killed Percent
SEsaber 1 50.000
WingNutt 1 50.000
2 Kills
:neener:
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Late War Tour 122
bj229r killed by a
P-47M by player name
Killer Player Name Killed Percent
mantis 1 100.000
1 Kills
Late War Tour 119
bj229r killed by a
P-47M by player name
Killer Player Name Killed Percent
UbrMedic 1 100.000
1 Kills
ate War Tour 118
bj229r killed by a
P-47M by player name
Killer Player Name Killed Percent
SEsaber 1 50.000
WingNutt 1 50.000
2 Kills
:neener:
aHEM...post was during last camp, was referring to last camp! (Alas, got picked by an N in last day or 2, was quite sad... :cry)
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aHEM...post was during last camp, was referring to last camp! (Alas, got picked by an N in last day or 2, was quite sad... :cry)
Lol...just wanted to razz ya chief. :lol
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Got kilt by an M too...my whole world is going down the chitter :headscratch:
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I like the D25 best, but really only cus its got Greebos lovely RAF camo skin :D