Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: AKKuya on March 10, 2010, 02:58:31 PM
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The WW1 arenas are open now. Will there be a FSO event just strictly for a FSO Dogfight setup?
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I think it was floated when the WWI arenas were announced, but I don't think the response was overwhelmingly enthusiastic.
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Not sure how to structure an FSO event for WWI.
Basically all you have is sweep and engagement missions. No bomber escort, no defense of ground forces, bases, etc. No way to simulate Fighters trying to prevent other fighters from scouting, spotting for ground forces, etc.
I would like to try it out but simply don't have an idea yet how to construct any objectives for it that could carry on over multiple frames outside of you force A go to sector B, force B go to sector B and fight (sweep).
Will have to give it thought.
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It'd be cool, might be a better idea for daddog's Combat Challenge thing.
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Sort of have an idea of how to do it now.
Basically I would need to assign screen missions and strafing missions.
A screen mission would be a simple go to this area and clear of it enemies. I believe Stoney has done similiar missions with success in several of h is designs.
A strafing mission would be to task a force to strafe some sort of facility. Basically I would ratch down the AA lethality to be survivable for the WW I planes. Then I would ratched down what it took to say destroy all the AA guns and say Fuel Bunkers, Ammo Bunkers, barracks at a field so that WW I have a chance of destroying them with their guns (not the hangars though).
Then a force would be tasked with going to a field / base / facility and gunning down all of the AA or maybe the AA and fuel bunkers or some combination of that. This would simulate the WW I planes being used to hit things behind enemy lines (even though we don't have hand bombs or anything). By doing this I might be able to still be able to construct attack missions and escort missions in addition to pure sweep missions.
Have to give it a bit more thought.
Again maybe something for a snapshot at first or on a night FSO is not running (during the break for a Combat Challenge).
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We need Zepplins.
:D
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I would love to have Zepplins and balloons. Hell even give us WW I buffs and only have then enabled in the SEA or AvA. Or give us hand bombs .. that would work to. Fly over a target, stretch out your hand and drop a bomb.
Ah, well will see if something can be done with what we have and if there is interest.
Hmm, also reminds me that would need to create a special Western Front terrain for AH WW I type action.
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Oh ya we could do that in time. :aok Maybe a Snapshot or two first.
We also need a WWI terrain first and finally I would like to see the WWI plane set thicken some before we tried it as an FSO.
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I will see about working a WWI version of France into CM Terrain Team's schedule.
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Sounds good gentlemen. :salute
I was asking on the behalf of some returning ol' time AK's when they found out about the WW1 arena. They haven't been around for several years and been flying with us for a couple of weeks.
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Don't know what we would do with Zeppelins, they played almost no role at all in the daytime air war over the front in WW1. Balloons? yes, of course they were deployed by the 1000s.
I hope they spend the time with WW1 a/c bomber/attack models, like the DH4 and the Roland CII, not Zepps.
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Balloons ought to be easy to model: all they do is float, and get pushed around their mooring by the wind.
Observation balloons that spotted for artillery were a very common target for WWI "scouts". (see also: Willy Coppens)
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Yep, I have asked a few questions of the CM Terrain team builders who are into building custom objects if it would be possible to build balloons and make the destructible with the current object editor software. They would be stationary and not move (I would assume ones that HTC could build in the future would be affected by wind and could more, etc.) but I don't see that as a draw back.
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Weren't specialized incendiary rounds used for balloon busting? Or was that just the zepplins?
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From what I read Observations balloons were highly flammable and the two men manning them were given parachutes because they tended to go up in flames also.
In addition balloon busting was considered so important they credit pilots with an air to air for killing a balloon just as if they shot down another plane. The attempt to take out enemy observations balloons is credit by some for the whole creation of air superiority where you had planes designed to kill balloons, then planes designed to defend the balloons by killing those attacking the balloons, and so on basically sparking the whole fighter plane evolution (planes to kill attackers and planes to defender the attackers from planes trying to kill them).
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FYI, I think victory credit varied. The Allies included balloons in their tally, but I think the Germans didn't. Not that it makes a difference in the context of an FSO frame, but just thought I'd bring it up.
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True, I forgot about that.
Just doing research to try to get ideas for objectives that would allow for a WW1 FSO to be done. Not saying we will do one or not but just looking into whether it would be possible or not.
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Recon Missions using Screen shots should work well too.
Truck Convoy intercepts too.
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True, on the recon. I was sort of thinking of say .. 10 many pilots in F2Bs must take pics of this installation. For each one who does and makes safely home and lands you get Y amount of points.
That say you could have 10 Camels assigned to protect 6 F2Bs (providing an escort mission to the recon which is historical).
Train busting might be possible also. Actually it also might a different type of recon role. Find and photographic train and return alive.
So right now I see recon missions with escorts, sweep missions, aerial denial missions (typical defense of an area), and strafing missions (dial down the hardness on objects so that they could be gunned down). Plus, looking into whether it would feasible to create a terrain with custom balloon objects since balloons were stationary (so also attack and defend balloons).
Of course there is a bit of terrain work that needs to be done so would be several months out before anything could be attempted.
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Incindiaries were used for balloon missions but im not sure that really matters for our purposes as long as they can be destroyed by mg fire. Just have them take X ammount of damage and then they go boom like any other target. It took a lot of nerve to go after the balloons, they were almost always covered by a lot of AAA arty and gun crews.
Maybe by the time FSO is rdy for WW1 we will have a few more a/c as well.
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Well if we can create a custom balloon object that sits up in the air above the ground (not something we have every tried before) that is just attached by rope(s) we can create like a custom Vehicle base .. with AA several balloons, etc.
Checking into it but don't have an answer yet if it is feasible or not.
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Wow. If you watch the main board there's some people out there ready to storm hitech's offices with torches and pitchforks at the very HINT of something other than fighters being added to the WWI plane/object set. :O
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Yes, I know but as you pointed out they don't have to be enabled for WW1 arenas.
However, to run any type of special event you sort of need more to do that say .. go to sector 1,1 and dog fight.
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Yes, I know but as you pointed out they don't have to be enabled for WW1 arenas.
I actually tried making that very point in a post I made on the Wishlist forum right after the update. Didn't seem to matter that I specified special events in the post.... :rolleyes:
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Well I have discussed with the Object builders on the CM Terrain Team and yes, mrmidi has already made tethered balloons (WW2 versions) and trenches. Both can be be made destroyable. So we can definitely do this. Just need to start a terrain .. so an WW1 FSO does seem possible once a terrain is created.
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Sounds excellent GD!!!
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:aok
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I love it!
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Well I have discussed with the Object builders on the CM Terrain Team and yes, mrmidi has already made tethered balloons (WW2 versions) and trenches. Both can be be made destroyable. So we can definitely do this. Just need to start a terrain .. so an WW1 FSO does seem possible once a terrain is created.
SWEET! :aok
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Can't wait :aok I also like DD's idea to run several snap shot events prior to a FSO style event. Might be a good way to work out the bugs and figure out how to make a FSO scenario that all can enjoy.
WWI FSO's I would think would need to be very different event from a traditional WWII style FSO because of the speed of the AC and the light damage needed to down the aircraft. The WWI AC fly so slow and no one wants to fly for 60 minutes to get anywhere, then die in the first 30 seconds of a furball because their plane falls apart or they get one bullet to the head. Realistic yes but the fun factor is low.
Idea's would be to have 1 hour WWI FSO's which would take into account the slow flying time and lighter damage needed to down a AC. And maybe run 2 during a FSO scenario night to get the 2 hours. Would be interesting to see if the WWI AC could handle a "Air spawn". That might help things as well if the AC could survive. This would place them closer to their targets and at alt.
Another idea might be to allow multiple lifed FSO events but limited to 2-3 total dependent upon the scenario. Have the CM open and close fields for 5 minutes every 30 minutes or as it makes sense to the scenario. That would allow for 2nd or 3rd wave attacks. If the objectives were close enough to each other the CIC would be able to shift and move additional squads to attack weak points and strengthen areas of concern by shifting his squads to other airfields for 2nd and 3rd strikes. This would allow for re-enforcements to arrive for continued attacks as well. Keep the points the same. Keep the attack and defend targets even.
Either way I and several others from the 325th VFG are looking forward to coordinated WWI events whatever they look like. And we'll do our part to help you test them out.
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A possibility would to have attackers launch and proceed enroute to target.
Defenders would up from the tower, but then taxi to diffrent areas of the field and HOLD.
Upon visual icon sighting defenders would take off all at once and let the fun begin.
All field ack would be disabled.
Surviving player would win.
Then switch roles.
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As others have said it would be fun for FSO to try in the future, but we have a laundry list to go over before we could run WWI in FSO. I would imagine a WWI 'Scenario' list would be even longer.
1. A WWI terrain
2. Larger WWI plane set
3. Viable targets (ground and air)
4. Through testing via Snapshots and or the AVA
Once the above 4 were satisfied then we could seriously consider an FSO in WWI, which would be fun to try IMHO. :)
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As others have said it would be fun for FSO to try in the future, but we have a laundry list to go over before we could run WWI in FSO. I would imagine a WWI 'Scenario' list would be even longer.
1. A WWI terrain
2. Larger WWI plane set
3. Viable targets (ground and air)
4. Through testing via Snapshots and or the AVA
Once the above 4 were satisfied then we could seriously consider an FSO in WWI, which would be fun to try IMHO. :)
1) Definitely doable.
2) Ditto
3) Unfortunately, ground targets would require adding bombers and strike planes to the WWI set, which a portion of the community is absolutely dead-set and uncompromisingly against seeing introduced. Ditto for balloons and zepplins (look at the "NOOOOOOO! Fighters ONLY in WWI!!!!!! when I suggested adding zepplins SOLELY for use in Scenarios/FSO on the wishlist forum). HTC has also apparently decided to leave WWI as furball-only. Adding bombers available only in the SEA arenas would cause more problems than HTC is probably going to be willing to put up with with people wanting them available in the WWI Arenas.
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...which a portion of the community is absolutely dead-set and uncompromisingly against seeing introduced. Ditto for balloons and zepplins (look at the "NOOOOOOO! Fighters ONLY in WWI!!!!!! when I suggested adding zepplins SOLELY for use in Scenarios/FSO on the wishlist forum)
I am with you Sax.
No crystal ball here, but IMHO keeping WWI strictly as a furball would be a mistake and I don't think HTC is that short sighted.
Years ago the Zeppelins they had in Warbirds were a blast. Adding ground targets, trenches, etc would only enhance the WWI game play and move it that much closer to being used throughout the events community.
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Currently there is 4 WW1 arenas. I'm sure they could be split between 2 WW1 furball arenas and 2 WW1 capture field war arenas with tbombers and ground targets. HTC needs some time to get the WW1 plansets increased.
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I am with you Sax.
No crystal ball here, but IMHO keeping WWI strictly as a furball would be a mistake and I don't think HTC is that short sighted.
Years ago the Zeppelins they had in Warbirds were a blast. Adding ground targets, trenches, etc would only enhance the WWI game play and move it that much closer to being used throughout the events community.
Hell, I couldn't really care less if they were available in the WWI arenas, I was just shocked that certain members of the community were so fanatical about it they even attacked a thread asking for them ONLY for scenarios. HTF does adding zepplins to the SEAs keep you from your endless merry-go-round?
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1) Terrain we can make and are already in progress on. There will be destructable balloons in that terrain.
2) Can't do much about the planeset.
3) Viable targets - have a few ideas. Will have balloons for people to attack and defend. Another mission could be to find truck convoys and strafe them. I also have an idea for artillery spotting. In the terrain we could place shore batteries along the trenches (well a bit back). Need to make sure that the guns can reach the enemy base but would place an enemy base at the outer limit of the shore gun range. Then planes could theoretically spot for them.
Battle would then be to dominate the air space over / around that field and allow your spotters to walk the shore gun fine on to target (points awarded to number of objects destroyed).
Also have an idea for recon missions but need a little more thought.
4) Everything definitely would need to be tested in via Snapshots. But I think it might be possible. Creating a custom terrain will be key.
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Truck would be a good target.
Can you design the trains with or without guns? Can you give the trains smaller machine guns for defense opposed to the current 20mm they have?
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Actually not sure on the trains if you can replace them with custom objects.
As for lethality I figure you would have to turn down the lethality on the AA for the arena since I think the smallest AA gun is a 20mm. One 20mm hit I think would blow a WW1 plane out of the air.