Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Yossarian on May 01, 2010, 06:39:57 PM
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It's been way too long since the last A-26 request. So, without further ado, I present to you....the A-26 INVADER:
(http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/9/5/6/1374659.jpg)
Here's a link to a potentially recent post with videos about the A-26:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,247368.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,247368.0.html)
And here's the video website itself:
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/MATINEE.html (http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/MATINEE.html)
Now, as for why I think we should have this aeroplane next:
a) It came out in 3rd place in the vote held by HiTech Creations, below the B-25 (first place) and the P-39 (second place). We have had both the B-25 and P-39 added already, so it would only be logical that the A-26 is the next plane to be added - after all, the people spoke through that poll. Of course, once the A-26 has been added, then the other planes from the vote should be as well, in order of what people wanted the most. The results of that vote are in this thread:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,202838.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,202838.0.html)
b) It'd be an extremely popular aeroplane amongst many players. Whilst I'm aware that there are quite a few people who want the He-111, it would be nothing more than a hangar queen outside of special events. By contrast, the speed, survivability and firepower of the A-26 Invader would give it a very prominent role as a light bomber.
c) The A-26 is so good at what it does (dive bombing, low-level attack, dogfighting [for anyone who likes using two engines at once], ground attack, and just generally being a nuisance to the opposition) that in my view, it would be highly worthy of a perk price. If so, it would give us all a much-needed way to spend our bomber perks (aside from the Ar-234). This in itself is a very important factor for adding it. I've heard of many people who say that the Ar-234 is basically a hangar queen. Sure, it's excellent at what it does (high-speed level bombing), but that's about it. It accelerates like a sloth, climbs like a hippopotamus, and runs like a cheetah. That's it. The A-26 would provide a welcome outlet for all those bomber perk points, and doubtlessly bring many more players into the joy of flying two engined aircraft as if they were fighters.
d) Some models of the A-26 had 14 forward facing 50 cals. These were not field mods. Enough said.
So, if you're interested in finding out more about this plane, here are some links with a bit of information on it (and please, don't forget to leave expressions of your support and admiration for this aircraft down below!):
http://www.warbirdalley.com/a26.htm (http://www.warbirdalley.com/a26.htm)
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=91 (http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=91)
http://members.tripod.com/a26invader/ (http://members.tripod.com/a26invader/)
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Take off your sandals before treading on holy ground! Try this again and I'll send Belial after you. :cool:
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7671/quantumofsolacebelial.jpg)
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dont we already have the a26?
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Take off your sandals before treading on holy ground! Try this again and I'll send Belial after you. :cool:
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7671/quantumofsolacebelial.jpg)
I can only assume that this is a reference to the A-26. Beyond that, I'm lost :P
dont we already have the a26?
No, we already have the B-26, which is an entirely different aircraft.
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oh ok. I say put it in.
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oh ok. I say put it in.
LOL! So you can have another plane to shoot down in your B-25H? :rofl
ack-ack
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LOL! So you can have another plane to shoot down in your B-25H? :rofl
ack-ack
no another plane to shoot stuff up with
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no another plane to shoot stuff up with
Even funnier :rofl
ack-ack
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Yeah, we need another allied aircraft, and a medium bomber at that...here is a whole lot of NO for you.
(http://maxdunbar.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/no.jpg)
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+1 for expanding the game with a useful aircraft.
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bring the a26 and I"ll stop upping spit to ho the hordes :D.
semp
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+1 for expanding the game with a useful aircraft.
This.
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Why would you up that thing when you could up a Mossie instead? :P
Honestly though, there are aircraft that played a much, much larger role in WWII that have yet to be added and should take precedence over the A-26.
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Why would you up that thing when you could up a Mossie instead? :P
Honestly though, there are aircraft that played a much, much larger role in WWII that have yet to be added and should take precedence over the A-26.
Like the B-29? :noid
On a serious note, all I want is a few late war beasts to keep me happy, A-26, B-29, Meteor, Spitfire Mk. 21. Is this too much to ask? After all AH2 is primarily a late war dominated game.
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Like the B-29? :noid
On a serious note, all I want is a few late war beasts to keep me happy, A-26, B-29, Meteor, Spitfire Mk. 21. Is this too much to ask? After all AH2 is primarily a late war dominated game.
For a Brit, I am surprised you dismiss the Mossie so quickly for the A-26 (http://media.bigoo.ws/content/smile/character/character_51.gif)
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In air to air combat terms, the Mossie will eat the A-26 for lunch.
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In air to air combat terms, the Mossie will eat the A-26 for lunch.
Yes, but the A-26 also far more ords.
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For a Brit, I am surprised you dismiss the Mossie so quickly for the A-26 (http://media.bigoo.ws/content/smile/character/character_51.gif)
Hooked. :aok
There's nothing about AH2's version of the Mossie I really like. I fly to aggressive to be effective in it.
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According to the poll results the next 3 birds should be the A-26, Yak-3, and He-111.
Works for me.
:aok
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According to the poll results the next 3 birds should be the A-26, Yak-3, and He-111.
Works for me.
:aok
This.
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Hooked. :aok
There's nothing about AH2's version of the Mossie I really like. I fly to aggressive to be effective in it.
try flying a mossie aggressively, it may surprise you. Of course it would take a few months of dedication to learn it's quirks...
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yes to the vader :aok
and put quad 20mm on the friggin havoc too please while your at it :pray
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A26 Hell YES :aok Just a few of these, comin in fast in shallow dive, could get from the dar ring to over the base, before fighters could get enough alt to meet them. With enough ord to clobber 2 hangers in one DB pass, they could leave a field totally defenseless in 30 seconds or less.. And then escape with 500mph dive speed.. If mem serves, it used a laminar flow wing like the pony, so it should retain E pretty well too.. Looks like the heavy gun package had 16x50cals too, LOL!! Base cap fighters would have to remain on station to guard against these fast sneak attacks from an unknown direction.. A game changer for sure ..
Better have those 262's with alt for defense!
+1 It fits all the criteria for addition to the game..
+1 It is a genuine "Late War" design for the LW arena's..
+1 It would be great to have a perk bomber, that is REALLY WORTH the perks, every bit!
RC
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try flying a mossie aggressively, it may surprise you. Of course it would take a few months of dedication to learn it's quirks...
thats going out the window soon... and i cant wait for that darn update to happen... :aok
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A26 Hell YES :aok Just a few of these, comin in fast in shallow dive, could get from the dar ring to over the base, before fighters could get enough alt to meet them. With enough ord to clobber 2 hangers in one DB pass, they could leave a field totally defenseless in 30 seconds or less.. And then escape with 500mph dive speed.. If mem serves, it used a laminar flow wing like the pony, so it should retain E pretty well too.. Looks like the heavy gun package had 16x50cals too, LOL!! Base cap fighters would have to remain on station to guard against these fast sneak attacks from an unknown direction.. A game changer for sure ..
Better have those 262's with alt for defense!
+1 It fits all the criteria for addition to the game..
+1 It is a genuine "Late War" design for the LW arena's..
+1 It would be great to have a perk bomber, that is REALLY WORTH the perks, every bit!
RC
QFT.
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A26 Hell YES :aok Just a few of these, comin in fast in shallow dive, could get from the dar ring to over the base, before fighters could get enough alt to meet them. With enough ord to clobber 2 hangers in one DB pass, they could leave a field totally defenseless in 30 seconds or less.. And then escape with 500mph dive speed.. If mem serves, it used a laminar flow wing like the pony, so it should retain E pretty well too.. Looks like the heavy gun package had 16x50cals too, LOL!! Base cap fighters would have to remain on station to guard against these fast sneak attacks from an unknown direction.. A game changer for sure ..
Better have those 262's with alt for defense!
+1 It fits all the criteria for addition to the game..
+1 It is a genuine "Late War" design for the LW arena's..
+1 It would be great to have a perk bomber, that is REALLY WORTH the perks, every bit!
RC
Wow...so you can't do any of that with the A-20?
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+1 It would be great to have a perk bomber, that is REALLY WORTH the perks, every bit!
:furious
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K no more adding planes since everything can be done with rue existing plane set :) .
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K no more adding planes since everything can be done with rue existing plane set :) .
Well, if you can't do it with over 20 different U.S. aircraft...another one isn't going to make a bit of difference.
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I'd much rather see a Pe-2, Tu-2, Ki-102, Beaufighter or Me410 than the A-26. They can do similar jobs and aren't yet more representation to the most represented planeset.
Yes, but the A-26 also far more ords.
The impression I get from people's posts about the A-26 is that they want it as a fighter, not as an attack plane.
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The impression I get from people's posts about the A-26 is that they want it as a fighter, not as an attack plane.
You've got a valid point, but that's more just the way I've been phrasing things.
What I really mean is that a small number of people (probably those who are currently good with the A-20, at a guess) would use it very effectively as a fighter. However, I think RipChord has said the real reasons for the A-26 best:
A26 Hell YES :aok Just a few of these, comin in fast in shallow dive, could get from the dar ring to over the base, before fighters could get enough alt to meet them. With enough ord to clobber 2 hangers in one DB pass, they could leave a field totally defenseless in 30 seconds or less.. And then escape with 500mph dive speed.. If mem serves, it used a laminar flow wing like the pony, so it should retain E pretty well too.. Looks like the heavy gun package had 16x50cals too, LOL!! Base cap fighters would have to remain on station to guard against these fast sneak attacks from an unknown direction.. A game changer for sure ..
Better have those 262's with alt for defense!
+1 It fits all the criteria for addition to the game..
+1 It is a genuine "Late War" design for the LW arena's..
+1 It would be great to have a perk bomber, that is REALLY WORTH the perks, every bit!
RC
I really can't disagree with what he said at all.
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A-26 and B-29 would probably some pretty soon after one another as the new defensive gun systems would have to be added.
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-1 on the A-26
we got enough U.S.A aircraftsI'd much rather see a Pe-2, Tu-2, Ki-102, Beaufighter or Me410 than the A-26. They can do similar jobs and aren't yet more representation to the most represented planeset.
oh yeah!!!
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-1 on the A-26
we got enough U.S.A aircrafts oh yeah!!!
Did you even read the bits about a perked bomber, or the vote? :P
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Mossie B.Mk XVI, making use of lots of this new Mossie artwork they just did, would make a nice perk bomber too.
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I'd much rather see a Pe-2, Tu-2, Ki-102, Beaufighter or Me410 than the A-26. They can do similar jobs and aren't yet more representation to the most represented planeset.
The impression I get from people's posts about the A-26 is that they want it as a fighter, not as an attack plane.
so what your saying is that it is ok for a fighter to carry bombs
but not ok for a attack ac to use as a fighter ? :rofl
an a20 or a26 for that matter isent that much bigger then a mossy/p38/110
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I'd much rather see a Pe-2, Tu-2, Ki-102, Beaufighter or Me410 than the A-26. They can do similar jobs and aren't yet more representation to the most represented planeset.
The impression I get from people's posts about the A-26 is that they want it as a fighter, not as an attack plane.
A26 is a buff that can also dogfite. so we can use it to bomb the heck out of the field and cap it at the same time. kinda like the 110's we use now to kill town and cap with it. of course the mossie can do it too, but mossie is not a dogfiter or can carry as much ords as the a26.
and yeah, yeah and before u guys start talking about what a great fiter the mossie is, may i remind you that all u do is bnz and run in it, get into a low turn fite and you are ded.
semp
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I've won lots of turn fights in the Mossie. You might want to learn to use it before you tell us what we do in it.
so what your saying is that it is ok for a fighter to carry bombs
but not ok for a attack ac to use as a fighter ? :rofl
an a20 or a26 for that matter isent that much bigger then a mossy/p38/110
Not at all. I am saying that the people asking for it don't want to bomb things with it, they want to use it air-to-air mainly. Read their posts and the go on and on about its speed, maneuverability and firepower. The bombload doesn't come up until somebody mentions that it would be fairly weak as a dogfighter. Could you dogfight with it? Of course, but it isn't going to be the wonderfighter you expect it to be. The Mossie is superior as a fighter and it is certainly nothing to brag about in that department.
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, but mossie is not a dogfiter or can carry as much ords as the a26.
semp
And the A-26 is? Why not tell us how many fighters A-26 shot down in total and then compare it to the numbers shot down by Mosquitos. The A-26 was not a dogfighter and never was intended to be one or used in that role.
The problem is that people look at the A-26 with rose tinted glasses remembering how it was in AW. The only problem was that the AW flight model was so porked that it made it possible to fly the A-26 in such a manner.
ack-ack
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And the A-26 is? Why not tell us how many fighters A-26 shot down in total and then compare it to the numbers shot down by Mosquitos. The A-26 was not a dogfighter and never was intended to be one or used in that role.
The problem is that people look at the A-26 with rose tinted glasses remembering how it was in AW. The only problem was that the AW flight model was so porked that it made it possible to fly the A-26 in such a manner.
ack-ack
oh brother, go to sleep. say u dont like the a26 and leave it at that. let the rest of us worry about how to use it, if and when it gets here. by the way tell me how many lancs could dive bomb and outturn fiters again....
semp
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Question: How long has it been since we've had a new late war monster ADDED to AH2? Not counting the P47M...
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When the Mosquito VI was first added, and until the first patch, it launched out of the bomber hangars and earned bomber perks. You can imagine what happened when all the fighter hangars were destroyed at a base under attack. Hordes of Mossies were spawning and trying to get up. They were massively more effective at doing so than the B-26, the previous desperation aircraft from the bomber hangars. The A-26, like the A-20 and unlike the Mosquito which, in the Mk VI version is properly a fighter, would up from the bomber hangars. That is not an issue, but it would be significantly more effective as a desperation defense bomber than either the Il-2 or SBD-5. I would guess its perk value would be significant enough to sting if thrown away by trying to up it to defend bases like that.
Question: How long has it been since we've had a new late war monster ADDED to AH2? Not counting the P47M...
Question: How many late war monsters are left to be added?
Why should, of the few remaining late war monsters, the next one be yet another American unit added to an already well rounded planeset? Why not a Tu-2 instead?
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oh brother, go to sleep. say u dont like the a26 and leave it at that. let the rest of us worry about how to use it, if and when it gets here. by the way tell me how many lancs could dive bomb and outturn fiters again....
semp
who said I didn't like the A-26? Don't think I've ever posted anything that remotely says what you claim, I just don't believe the A-26 should be added at this point when there are too many other planes that need to be added.
Since you think the A-26 was used as a dogfighter and the Mosquito wasn't, why don't you show some data to back that up? Or are you afraid that the 6 kills credited to the A-26 in A2A engagements pales in comparison to the A2A kills the Mosquito racked up during the war?
ack-ack
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Just take a look at the numbers online at any single given day. The overwhelming majority are playing in LW. There for, a new late war monster would see much more use then yet another LW hanger queen. Amirite?
Karnak,
Yak-3.
A-26.
B-29.
Meteor.
Me-410.
Spitfire Mk.21
Spitfire Mk. XII.
Just a few.
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Yak-3: VK-105 engine, nothing special, inferior to the VK-107 engined Yak-9U we have.
A-26: Bomber, fighter prey, nothing special.
B-29: Would be massively perked and, per HTC, would take the effort of 10 other planes to create.
Meteor Mk III: Would be highly perked.
Me410: Great addition, mid-war utility plane, easy kill for most fighters.
Spitfire F.21: Not significantly superior to the Spitfire Mk XIV, saw practically no use in WWII.
Spitfire Mk XII: Mid war Griffon Spit, Guppy would be thrilled, but only 100 made and performance that is nothing great by 1945 standards.
Just a few: Which you are apparently unfamiliar with. You also didn't seem to understand the Tu-2 suggestion, or you don't know what it was.
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Just take a look at the numbers online at any single given day. The overwhelming majority are playing in LW. There for, a new late war monster would see much more use then yet another LW hanger queen. Amirite?
I think any late war monster left to be added would be perked, and so, quite limited in usage. Also, I'm in LW to fly hangar queens, so I would welcome some more of them, like the G.55.
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Just to say...the VOTE
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More perk rides FTW, I only had about 9,000 before I cancelled my account for the 3rd time.
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Just to say...the VOTE
What vote?
The vote to decide what the next plane to be added would be wherein the B-25 won by such a narrow margin over the P-39 that they added them both? That vote? That was for the next plane to be added.
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What vote?
The vote to decide what the next plane to be added would be wherein the B-25 won by such a narrow margin over the P-39 that they added them both? That vote? That was for the next plane to be added.
So why not just follow it down the list?
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So why not just follow it down the list?
Maybe the plans and priorities changed over the last 3 years. The Brewster and the I-16 were not even on the list as far as I recall.
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Just take a look at the numbers online at any single given day. The overwhelming majority are playing in LW. There for, a new late war monster would see much more use then yet another LW hanger queen. Amirite?
Karnak,
Yak-3.
A-26.
B-29.
Meteor.
Me-410.
Spitfire Mk.21
Spitfire Mk. XII.
Just a few.
P-63 :noid
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Maybe the plans and priorities changed over the last 3 years. The Brewster and the I-16 were not even on the list as far as I recall.
I thought I heard that those were done as a sort of 'thank you' to the Finnish players of AH, who've contributed so much to the game?
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A-26 PLEASE :bolt:
HP
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Just take a look at the numbers online at any single given day. The overwhelming majority are playing in LW. There for, a new late war monster would see much more use then yet another LW hanger queen. Amirite?
Yeah, there are a lot more people in the LW arenas but that doesn't mean the overwhelming majority are flying late war aircraft...at any given time there are a large number of mid-war airplanes flying.
Again, what could be accomplished with the A-26 that can not currently be done with the A-20 or B-26?
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+1 on the A-26. Lets put it on the develop in the near future. :aok
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Yeah, there are a lot more people in the LW arenas but that doesn't mean the overwhelming majority are flying late war aircraft...at any given time there are a large number of mid-war airplanes flying.
Again, what could be accomplished with the A-26 that can not currently be done with the A-20 or B-26?
Umm 355mph. with more ord.
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Yeah, there are a lot more people in the LW arenas but that doesn't mean the overwhelming majority are flying late war aircraft...at any given time there are a large number of mid-war airplanes flying.
Again, what could be accomplished with the A-26 that can not currently be done with the A-20 or B-26?
Taking down two hangars in one pass? Carrying 5-inch rockets (14 of them, according to one source) under the wings? Being ~30mph faster, and also being the fastest American bomber of WWII?
But at the end of the day, this plane could easily be a perked bomber - and that's a good chunk of the reason why this should be added. Another good chunk of it is that the people have spoken through that vote, and they said it should be added!
EDIT:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4CEDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA80&dq=A-26+invader&ei=GvfeS_vGGKqkygSn_7j-CA&cd=4#v=onepage&q=A-26%20invader&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=4CEDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA80&dq=A-26+invader&ei=GvfeS_vGGKqkygSn_7j-CA&cd=4#v=onepage&q=A-26%20invader&f=false)
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So what would be the balancing plane that would be added with it? Doesn't seem like anyone has taken that into consideration. And another perked bomber is really needed...ok if you say so.
News flash...there are 8 U.S./British bombers capable of carrying enough ord to drop 2 or more hangars in 1 pass...and one of them is a highly capable dive bomber...they are all well armed. The A-26 has no better armament than the A-20.
There are 11 highly capable U.S./British fast attack fighter/bombers...all of which carry enough ord to drop at least one hangar and are more than capable of fighting their way in and out.
Compare that to what is currently available for all of the other countries combined...when coming up with some new aircraft that would be "cool to fly"...try getting some priorities that include making AH something besides Fly U.S.A.
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In the 4yrs I've been flying AH, I have flown A20 more than any other... The main limiting factor on A20 is the old prewar airframe.. It wants to go faster than the airframe will tolerate, if you do, things break and it starts shedding parts.. Thats why Douglas took all their wartime experience with A20, and all its upgrades.. And poured it into a new plane, the A26.. It won't shed parts like A20!
And it will have WAY higher dive speeds, will sustain them longer with its slicker airframe.. This will make it far easier to zip in to a target quick, far harder to catch them, and far more survivable all around.. Late war fighter guys don't like that idea.. :cry
:salute RC
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355mph top speed at best altitude says it will still be easy to catch.
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:aok I've been waiting for the A-26 since I left AW to come here in 2001.
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So what would be the balancing plane that would be added with it? Doesn't seem like anyone has taken that into consideration. And another perked bomber is really needed...ok if you say so.
Who mentioned a balancing plane? Since when has that been a requirement - I don't exactly see the Me-262 having a balancing plane, or the 163 or the 234 for that matter.
News flash...there are 8 U.S./British bombers capable of carrying enough ord to drop 2 or more hangars in 1 pass...and one of them is a highly capable dive bomber...they are all well armed. The A-26 has no better armament than the A-20.
What is this mysterious dive bomber you speak of? Short of the A-26, I really can't think of any 2-hangar 1-pass dive bombers...
There are 11 highly capable U.S./British fast attack fighter/bombers...all of which carry enough ord to drop at least one hangar and are more than capable of fighting their way in and out.
None of which are capable of dropping two hangars in one dive...
Compare that to what is currently available for all of the other countries combined...when coming up with some new aircraft that would be "cool to fly"...try getting some priorities that include making AH something besides Fly U.S.A.
You're still forgetting the vote...
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You're still forgetting the vote...
Change what you put up to vote on and the vote will change.
What is this mysterious dive bomber you speak of? Short of the A-26, I really can't think of any 2-hangar 1-pass dive bombers...
None of which are capable of dropping two hangars in one dive...
Was mistakenly thinking of another airplane...forget that one.
Why is there a need for a single aircraft to drop 2 hangars in one pass...still trying to win de warz with a single plane?
Not picking on you but...I know there are a lot more useful aircraft that could be added way before the A-26.
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Yossarian, the vote is 100% irrelevant now. It was a vote to decide the next, single aircraft added, not to decide the order of the next 10 aircraft added. It had no relevance beyond the B-25 and, due only to how insanely close the vote was, P-39. Forget about it, or should we start referring to the vote between the SBD/D3A or D4Y/SB2C to justify asking for the latter two?
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While there's no doubt the A26 is an interesting aircraft and it's inclusion would allow HTC a chance to use the newly increased ordnance loadout points,I dont see it being a priority at this point.
There's been many good suggestions made already,the TU2 being 1 that I think warrants inclusion,I personally would like to see the planeset more evened out. We could use many Japanese planes,some Italian bombers and even some of the smaller but just as important countries,maybe Romania and France deserve to have a plane representative.
I'm not saying "dont add the A26" as I flew it many times in another sim I'm just saying is now the time for this or would the resources be better spent in other areas.
:salute
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Beaufighter has to get here first! :)
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I'd love to see the A-26 but can think of 5 other planes...
Beaufighter
Tu-2
SB2C
B7A
D4Y
All would fill needs and be very competitive in the LWA (IMO).
What I would love to see is the 4 x 20mm option for the A-20. It was factory standard production and the USSR operated more A-20's then every other user combined and many were converted back to the 4 x 20mm loadout...
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I'd love to see the A-26 but can think of 5 other planes...
Beaufighter
Tu-2
SB2C
B7A
D4Y
All would fill needs and be very competitive in the LWA (IMO).
What I would love to see is the 4 x 20mm option for the A-20. It was factory standard production and the USSR operated more A-20's then every other user combined and many were converted back to the 4 x 20mm loadout...
Yep, the 4x 20mm option would fit nicely with the Soviet skin we have for the A-20.
ack-ack
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The A-26 represents the best we had to offer in medium bombers, and it served in numbers.
There is NO reason this bomber shouldn't be added, outside of a few menial objections.
If you can't come out on top of a PERKED medium bomber in this sim, perhaps you shouldn't be here?...
It's fear'd because it is effective, NOT uber. Time the ground pounders had somthing to be excited about.
Bring the Royal A-26 to the game, it deserves to be here..., not many planes survive 3 wars to be so celebrated, that alone should be reason enough to intr a HISTORICALY accurate aircraft that was built in numbers.
No other ww2 aircraft nears the service length (unless you mention cargo aircraft) , or effectivness. The time may have finaly come... :salute
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I'd love to see the A-26 but can think of 5 other planes...
Beaufighter
Tu-2
SB2C
B7A
D4Y
All would fill needs and be very competitive in the LWA (IMO).
What I would love to see is the 4 x 20mm option for the A-20. It was factory standard production and the USSR operated more A-20's then every other user combined and many were converted back to the 4 x 20mm loadout...
Yes but mostly the Beaugfihter :)
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The question isn't does it deserve to "be here" of course it does. The two key aspects are what else is missing in the plane set and does the a-26 have alternatives already in place. The answer is simple, while the A-26 will be a great addition the A-20 can do everything the A-26 can almost as well. I'd love to have it since I'm an A-20 junkie already. However, a lot of other planes offer similar capability role wise and fill serious gaps in the plane set. Giving the A-20 the 4 x 20mm option would be an excellent alternative. Personally the G.55, Beaufighter, Tu-2 and lagg-3 all need to be in game. The other great addition would be the hawk75...
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Other planes offer the same alternatives as the ones u say "we need", so why should they be released before the a26? Its a never ending story, which one is "needed" but won't be used as much or one that will be used (a26) but is not "needed".
Semp
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Even funnier :rofl
ack-ack
No, what's even funnier is that he'll be taking it on the Celtic Woman Tour.
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Other planes offer the same alternatives as the ones u say "we need", so why should they be released before the a26? Its a never ending story, which one is "needed" but won't be used as much or one that will be used (a26) but is not "needed".
Semp
I'm trying to balance use in the MA's with FSO/Scenario potential. While the A-26 has the advantage of an extra 2,000 lbs of ords and some additional speed and structural strength its also got heavier wing-loading and a slower rate of climb compared to the A-20. Realistically the A-26 isn't "needed" anymore then the 410 is since both have functional equivalents. Personally I'd love to see the A-26 but then I'm one of a handful (10-20?) that really fly the A-20 significantly as a % of total sorties. Adding the A-26 won't really change all that much IMO compared to the impact some others will have for FSO/Scenarios. In the MA the Tu-2 and Beau will develop strong cult followings just like the IL-2 and A-20 have...
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beaufighter !
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I'm trying to balance use in the MA's with FSO/Scenario potential. While the A-26 has the advantage of an extra 2,000 lbs of ords and some additional speed and structural strength its also got heavier wing-loading and a slower rate of climb compared to the A-20. Realistically the A-26 isn't "needed" anymore then the 410 is since both have functional equivalents. Personally I'd love to see the A-26 but then I'm one of a handful (10-20?) that really fly the A-20 significantly as a % of total sorties. Adding the A-26 won't really change all that much IMO compared to the impact some others will have for FSO/Scenarios. In the MA the Tu-2 and Beau will develop strong cult followings just like the IL-2 and A-20 have...
ever since i got here 3 years ago, every new plane request is always to what is "needed in fso" and that gets old, there's lots of players that never play in fso. me I played twice, first time we flew around or 1 hour looking for a fite we never found and second, flew for 1 hr found the fite but found most people refused to engage since they didnt want to get killed. you guys like fso, great not opposed to it. but dang it let me have my a26 then u can have all your airplanes you want that will hardly get used.
also please dont say that the a20 is "almost" as good as the a26, not even close. i see the a20 being used maybe once a week, reason, its slow as hell and dont carry enough ords to make it worthwhile. maybe you should compare the a26 to the b26 which is faster, better payload than the a20. I want the a26 due mostly for town, kindda like the way we used the 110's for fast noe base taking missions. but it could also switch to destroy hangars and for base suppression. we currently dont have a buff that can do this. Imagine dropping 1 or 2 hangars then capping the field along with the fiters. we currently dont have this capability and it would be awesome to have it :pray.
semp
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Guncrasher,
Since AH2 went live, the following units have been added that are either even in weight between scenarios and the MA or mainly for the MA:
B-24J
P-47M
P-47N
Ki-84
Sherman VC 'Firefly'
T-34/85
Wirbelwind
The most recent addition, the P-47M, has almost no scenario use and is almost exclusively an MA unit.
As to your comments about the A-20 vs A-26. Lets look at some numbers:
(using wikipedia as a quick and dirty source for the A-26B)
Weight, empty:
A-20G: 16,610lbs
A-26B: 22,850lbs
Weight, maximum:
A-20G: 26,000lbs
A-26B: 35,000lbs
Wing area:
A-20G: 465sq.ft
A-26B: 540sq.ft
Wing loading, empty:
A-20G: 35.72lbs.sq.ft
A-26B: 42.31lbs.sq.ft
A-20G is 6.59lbs.sq.ft better
Wing loading, maximum:
A-20G: 55.91lbs.sq.ft
A-26B: 64.81lbs.sq.ft
A-20G is 8.9lbs.sq.ft better
Power:
A-20G: 1,650hpx2: 3,300hp
A-26B: 2,000hpx2: 4,000hp
Powerloading, empty:
A-20G: 5.03lb.hp
A-26B: 5.71lb.hp
A-20G is 0.68lb.hp better
Powerloading, maximum:
A-20G: 7.88lb.hp
A-26B: 8.75lb.hp
A-20G is 0.87lb.hp better
Speed:
A-20G: 338mph at 12,000ft.
A-26B: 355mph at unknown.
A-26B is 17mph faster
Deck speed:
A-20G: 316mph
A-26B: unknown, but due to lower ceiling I'd guess it has a larger speed advantage here than at best alt.
A-26B is likely to be ~25mph faster
The A-26B is faster and carries more armament, but it is unlikely to be nearly as nice to handle as the A-20G. It certainly is not massively better performancewise as some posters here seem to think it was. Looking at the wingloading and powerloading I would not expect it to out climb the A-20G either.
It may have been awesome in Airwarrior, but that does not seem to be an accurate representation of its capabilities.
Addendum:
The A-26B won't do anything the Bf110G-2 doesn't already do. If you want an aircraft to do what you describe, bombing and then providing a cap, take a N1K2-J, Bf110G-2, P-38L or Mosquito Mk VI.
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I really hate beating the old dead horse but I'm going to break out the stick again.
Addendum:
The A-26B won't do anything the Bf110G-2 doesn't already do. If you want an aircraft to do what you describe, bombing and then providing a cap, take a N1K2-J, Bf110G-2, P-38L or Mosquito Mk VI.
Karnak you want the He-111, which I would like to see also. BUT we already have the Ju88 and B26, both of which do it's job just fine.
The He-111 is not needed by your argument.
In the quote above you said it yourself, the Niki, Bf110, P38 and Mossie could do the job of a an A26, by comparison that means it could also do the jobs of a Beaufighter, a Tu-2, Me410, SB2C, etc. This means none of them are needed either.
Here's another one that you'll agree with, we don't need the B29 because the Lanc can do it's job.
EVERY plane in the game currently can do the job of a plane we don't have yet. PLEASE stop using this argument!
Now in keeping with the OP I would love to see an A26, BUT honestly I would just like to have SOME OTHER perked bomber to waste points on. Bomber pilots are long overdue for a powerful toy to play with.
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Actually, Beefcake, I have argued against the He111 at this time as it is too close to the Ju88 to really be a gap filler.
I'd love to see the Tu-2 or Pe-2. Maybe a Ki-43 or J2M3 or G4M2. Maybe even an SM.79-II.
As for a powerful bomber, the Mosquito B.Mk XVI would make a good one. People asking for the A-26 don't want a powerful bomber, they want a fighter you can hang bomber levels of ordnance off of.
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semp,
The real question is still pretty simple, what will the A-26 offer vs the A-20. Now if we look at the Boston vs A-20 the truth is that the Boston is a superior 1 v 1 air to air platform but its got minimal hitting power. So the trade off in performance is worth the extra firepower. If we look at the A-20 vs A-26 we see additional ords but strictly from a numbers perspective an indicated decrease in certain performance aspects. So while it will be faster, stronger and carry more ords its not going to be "better" then the 110 or Mossie. The biggest advantage IMO will actually be the increased structural strength that will allow better use of E.
I'd view the A-26 in the same light as the Spit VIII/XVI vs the Spit IX. You'll still see a lot of better sticks gravitate to the IX because it has certain advantages over the "better" plane, same with the D hog vs the 1a.
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Every month another Invader thread.........
Yet every month the debate seems to differ.
Crazy I tell ya, crazy!!!
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Comparing the A20, Boston and A26 is a bit like comparing the Spit V, IX and VIII or the P-47 D25, D40, M and N; All very similar with their own personalities. It would be a nice addition.
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Comparing the A20, Boston and A26 is a bit like comparing the Spit V, IX and VIII or the P-47 D25, D40, M and N; All very similar with their own personalities. It would be a nice addition.
It probably would be a nice addition. Tu-2 would be nicer though.
As a point of interest, 418 Squadron was doing their Intruder operations in Boston Mk IIIs before being re-equipped with Mosquitoes.
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For the record I also want the high speed Mosquito with the level bomb sight.
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Comparing the A20, Boston and A26 is a bit like comparing the Spit V, IX and VIII or the P-47 D25, D40, M and N; All very similar with their own personalities. It would be a nice addition.
Exactly...and I 100% would love to see the A-26 but realistically there are other options that should be considered greater priorities. To me the Tu-2 and the Beaufighter and Ki-43/D4Y or some other Japanese plane need to come 1st. The truth is that very little other then the G.55 will see much use in the MA's....
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Karnak, thanks for that post - I must admit that 70% of why I want the A-26 is that I think it's pretty cool ;)
That being said, are there any bombers which would actually make acceptable outlets for bomber perk points?
EDIT: Also, Mosquito XVIs?
EDIT2: *wanted - the A-26 evidently isn't half as good as I thought it would be!
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Perk bombers are kinda a tricky thing. People expect a certain level of unkillability in perk units and bombers are either very hard to kill (Ar234) or not really hard to kill. Thus, for most perk bombers we can probably expect to see relatively low costs meant simply to prevent that bomber from making lots of other bombers obsolete by default.
I'd expect the B-29A to be the only other potentially expensive bomber aside from the Ar234. The A-26 and Mosquito Mk XVI would probably be low perk price bombers, perked only to control their use a bit. The B7A2 and Il-10 might fall into that category as well.
I can't think of any WWII bombers other than those that would warrant perking.
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Karnak I actually keep refreshing the home page hoping to see a nice Mossie B displayed there. :D
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Karnak I actually keep refreshing the home page hoping to see a nice Mossie B displayed there. :D
The B.XVI would be nice as a perk bomber and the B.Mk IV would be good for scenarios, but I actually don't know how fun the B Mossies would be in the MA. Half the fun of taking a bomber out is shooting down the fighters trying to get you.
I think I'd use the B Mossies a bit, but I don't think I'd like them as much as, say, a Ju188A.
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Speed:
A-20G: 338mph at 12,000ft.
A-26B: 355mph at unknown.
A-26B is 17mph faster
Deck speed:
A-20G: 316mph
A-26B: unknown, but due to lower ceiling I'd guess it has a larger speed advantage here than at best alt.
A-26B is likely to be ~25mph faster
The A-26B is faster and carries more armament, but it is unlikely to be nearly as nice to handle as the A-20G.
According to the numbers I've seen the 355mph is reached at 15k. Based on that, quick 'n dirty calculation gives a rough sea level speed estimate of 304mph, the speed off course could be higher in real life. The glass nosed variant was faster at 373mph at alt. One innovation of the -26 was highly effective slotted flap design which produced 30% higher lift coefficient than the flaps of the A-20.
That said,
Looking at the US, Japanese and Russian planesets and especially the number of US bombers in AH, A-26 is about the last thing that's needed right now.
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The B.XVI would be nice as a perk bomber and the B.Mk IV would be good for scenarios, but I actually don't know how fun the B Mossies would be in the MA. Half the fun of taking a bomber out is shooting down the fighters trying to get you.
I think I'd use the B Mossies a bit, but I don't think I'd like them as much as, say, a Ju188A.
Were there any versions of the Mossie similar to the XVI which had nose guns?
It'd be great to have that though, with or without guns.
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Tu-2 would neatly merge the desire for a high performance bomber with a plane for the Russian planeset.
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Were there any versions of the Mossie similar to the XVI which had nose guns?
It'd be great to have that though, with or without guns.
B Mossies were all unarmed. The closest performance to a Mossie like that with guns would be the NF.Mk 30 which was a nightfighter and did about 320mph on the deck up to a best speed of about 430mph at around 25,000ft. It was armed with four 20mm cannons and could carry a 500lb bomb under each wing.
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Hmmm, lets see? If I can describe an attack profile that would work for me.. Of course I don't have the plane to test it out, (wish I did tho), and make alterations.. So consider the numbers fungeable.. Take off from a relatively high base, but any will do.. Climb to about 12k or so.. Set course for the target area.. When getting ready to cross the dar line, I would take a steep dive to about 8K or so, to build up major speed.. Shallow the dive as I cross the dar line, so I traverse the distance to the target with as much speed as possible, keeping the nose downhill all the way.. Appear over the target at about 5 or 6K, still movin fast.. Line up 2 hangars, scream down with everything the plane has got to give, clobber my targets, and blast out of there 50ft over the water, goin like a bat outta hell... After my ord is gone, plane trimmed up, make pursuing fighters chase me, if they have the gas, and can afford to waste the time, while the town is under threat from an incoming attack by Hvy buffs... Then I'd regain alt, and come blasting back through, looking for targets of opportunity for my 8 nose guns Everything I did would be downhill, wonder what the speeds would be, In A26, plenty fast for sure...
I think the plane would be the perfect hangar assassin
RC
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Hmmm, lets see? If I can describe an attack profile that would work for me.. Of course I don't have the plane to test it out, (wish I did tho), and make alterations.. So consider the numbers fungeable.. Take off from a relatively high base, but any will do.. Climb to about 12k or so.. Set course for the target area.. When getting ready to cross the dar line, I would take a steep dive to about 8K or so, to build up major speed.. Shallow the dive as I cross the dar line, so I traverse the distance to the target with as much speed as possible, keeping the nose downhill all the way.. Appear over the target at about 5 or 6K, still movin fast.. Line up 2 hangars, scream down with everything the plane has got to give, clobber my targets, and blast out of there 50ft over the water, goin like a bat outta hell... After my ord is gone, plane trimmed up, make pursuing fighters chase me, if they have the gas, and can afford to waste the time, while the town is under threat from an incoming attack by Hvy buffs... Then I'd regain alt, and come blasting back through, looking for targets of opportunity for my 8 nose guns Everything I did would be downhill, wonder what the speeds would be, In A26, plenty fast for sure...
I think the plane would be the perfect hangar assassin
RC
You could do all of that with the Tu-2.
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You could do all of that with the Tu-2.
Well, maybe so! But when I look at the TU2, all that comes to mind is the smell of gabbage, I hate gabbage.. :rofl just jokin!
Seriously tho, since the Rooskies don't have a bomber in game at all, I suppose this would be a good one..
But I wouldn't come back online to try a TU2.. I would to fly the A26 tho!
RC
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The impression I get from people's posts about the A-26 is that they want it as a fighter, not as an attack plane.
Yes we need a fighter...how about the P-61A/B :D :bolt:
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Yes we need a fighter...how about the P-61A/B :D :bolt:
I was just thinking last night how much better a match to most A-26 advocates the P-61 would be. It could carry 6,400lbs or ordnance as I recall.
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i want Ki 102 me want :furious
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P 61 is not an a26:). we want the a26 not the p61. Lol
Semp
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P 61 is not an a26:). we want the a26 not the p61. Lol
Semp
Having seen Karnak's post, and done a fair bit of reading, I'm thinking I'd actually rather have a Mossie NF Mk30 :D
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Having seen Karnak's post, and done a fair bit of reading, I'm thinking I'd actually rather have a Mossie NF Mk30 :D
traitor :furious
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traitor :furious
I'm sorry....but 430 mph at altitude? With 4 20mm cannons? That's a pretty good deal, IMO :D
But really, the main thing the Invader had for me was it's reputation...but seeing the stats of the Mossie NFMk30, I've got to go with that one...
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You can't really compare the two. The mossie in AH is a completely different animal then the A-20/26. Normally you'll see the mossie at higher alts as a combo buff hunter/E fighter. While you will occasionally see one flying at "attack me" alts its rare. 90% of the time any mossie I engage has alt & E. Contrast this with the A-20 were you rarely encounter them at high alts. More often they present as here I am come down and get me. Functional firepower is pretty similar since little can survive the 6 x .50 cals in the A-20.
Pure speed is of minimum importance once a fight is engaged outside of increased ability to bug out as required. The single biggest benefit the A-26 will have is the ability to better utilize total E state. A "faster" anything is of less practical value in a fight IMO. Once we get it the A-26 will be a huge upgrade since no plane (IMO) suffers more self inflicted break ups even in the hands of experienced pilots....
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The NF.30 and FB.VI Mosquitoes would be very different. Down at AH combat altitudes the FB.VI would be faster due to low blown engines, ~320mph on the deck for the NF.30 and ~350mph on the deck for the FB.VI once the dampers are removed. And no, the NF.30 didn't use dampers, so no speed boost that way.
The A-26 was an attack aircraft. In AH it would be used as an attack aircraft and heavy fighter. The Mosquito FB.Mk VI was an attack aircraft and heavy fighter, and that is how it gets used in AH. If people are using it in the attack role it will often be very low, particularly after the new one is added and it is faster on the deck than any other twin piston aircraft down there. Mossies on fighter sorties tend to come in with altitude. They have the fuel to burn to setup however they like and they often use it.
If I were to compare the A-26 to any Mosquito it would be to the Mk VI and in that case I'd say the A-26 has a lot more potential for hitting ground targets while being much less of a threat air-to-air.
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I would be an outstanding addition, especially for pilots that prefer attack runs in Medium Bombers and want the chance to survive to go home. LOL
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I would be an outstanding addition, especially for pilots that prefer attack runs in Medium Bombers and want the chance to survive to go home. LOL
Ki-67, B-26 both survivable med. bombers depending on your ability to fly them :rock
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Ki-67, B-26 both survivable med. bombers depending on your ability to fly them :rock
A-26 > (B-26 + Ki-67)
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There fiters that carry more ords than the 167.
Semp
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There fiters that carry more ords than the 167.
Semp
Eight 100kg bombs do more damage to a city than two 1,000lb bombs though, and that is even without formations.
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Eight 100kg bombs do more damage to a city than two 1,000lb bombs though, and that is even without formations.
salvos :rock
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8 100lbs of bombs do more damage than 3 1k lbs right, but then again u limit urself to the city what about the base itself. 161 is no match to an a26, no way no how.
Semp
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first 167 then 161 are you drunk semp? its Ki-67 :P
in what else can shoot down a Fw.190D9 from 1k :t
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ki67 is no match to a26 either :).
Semp
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I like planes to be added because they provide something different to game play or because they are planes that played an important role in the war but we don't yet have. If we're talking medium bombers, sure the A26 is nice for variety's sake I'd rather see the SM.79 added (other threads already mentioned it including the latest one): http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270318.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270318.0.html)
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ki67 is no match to a26 either :).
Semp
Ki-109 is :airplane: