Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: lyric1 on May 10, 2010, 02:45:48 AM
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If either of these aircraft are updated I would like to see a few options added that could be included
& a few that should be added as they were fitted as standard on these airframes.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan9-11.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan10-9.jpg)
First off the ventral gun if you read the page below you will see this is an option that should be standard with the appropriate caliber weapon.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan11-7.jpg)
Now if you read the above page you would have noticed that the Boston had standard a feature to fly the plane from the gunners seat if in a situation the pilot was incapacitated. This is a feature that would be of great use when an enemy plane is on your tail. In AHII there is almost nothing you can do if they are on your dead 6 as the rear gun wont fire through your tail. It will at least give you the chance to move & fire at the same time to get a shot at the plane behind you especially in the formation mode.
Also if the pilot was to die in AHII it would be an instant loss of aircraft. Not if this was added as other crew personal could fly it from another position. :aok
Rockets look to be an option at least for the A20 this portion at least proves that they did see combat with them mounted in the Pacific.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan4-11.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan13-6.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/8thSqdnA-20_with_rocket_lanchers_at.jpg)
Now did the Boston have rockets mounted? Well yes... did they see combat use? I am not to sure about that? I can't find evidence either way. The picture below with it's statement that the very plane pictured was sent on to other units it may have had the rocket option as well & was used?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan14-5.jpg)
Some other Boston pics with rockets.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/74.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/2314230045_f1dd3fe396_o.jpg)
Extra fuel tank? I don't think it would be used in AHII how ever it was an option.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan7-10.jpg)
Torpedo's? A20's had them and the Russians used them quite a bit.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/AinR-107-1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan2-18.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan4-5.jpg)
Aerial mines? Should this be added...? Probably not although it could be a lot of fun in terms of a new aspect of game play & just the whine factor of some one loosing a 262 to a bunch of mines kicked out by a formation of Bostons is priceless.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan15-4.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan16-5.jpg)
ATV Boston? & if we get dirt run ways there is always this. :lol
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan12-7.jpg)
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mines were prolly one of those things that are wishful thinking for what i read.
semp
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mines were prolly one of those things that are wishful thinking for what i read.
semp
In terms of the game or actual use? They did use them but did not work very well. I would imagine the bomber crews just flew around them as the pilots would easily have seen them. Not so in AHII if you dropped them in front of bombers as they were in the bomb site they would fly right in to them as we only have a one man crew.
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Would love to see the ventral gun and torps added to the Boston/A20G.
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torps and quad 20mm and rockets yesssss :aok
ventral gun is waste of pixals imo
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torps and quad 20mm and rockets yesssss :aok
ventral gun is waste of pixals imo
Well 20 mm's gets in to a completely differant aircraft if your talking about P-70's. Would the ventral gun be of great use in AHII? I would have to say no but it appears the gun was standard from the factory & should be on the aircraft. It would be akin to leaving off the TBM & Ju-88 ventral gun.
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Well 20 mm's gets in to a completely differant aircraft if your talking about P-70's. Would the ventral gun be of great use in AHII? I would have to say no but it appears the gun was standard from the factory & should be on the aircraft. It would be akin to leaving off the TBM & Ju-88 ventral gun.
The first production run of the USAAF A-20Gs of 250 or so came out of the factory with the 4x 20mm nose weapon package. A large number of these were deployed to a couple of USAAF bomber groups in the PTO for testing and evaluation in combat. The pilots really didn't care for them, the 20mm cannons proved to be unreliable and prone to jamming and the consensus of the pilots were that machine guns were just as effective. The remaining A-20Gs out of the pool of 250 were either converted back to 6x-8x .50 caliber machine guns or given to the Soviets under Lend-Lease with the 4x 20mm cannon intact. The Soviets also received additional A-20G through Lend-Lease that came in both 4x 20mm and multi-machine gun nose weapon packages.
I believe the reason why the ventral gun was initially left off the A-20G was at the time Pyro could not find any conclusive pictures or data that showed the ventral gun as being part of the A-20G production run.
ack-ack
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Great research :salute
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One thing I am curious about is the performance. I have tried to find data on it, but everything I have found lists significantly lower performance than either the Boston Mk III or A-20G have in AH. I haven't found much as it doesn't seem to be a commonly documented feature of it and I haven't searched that deeply yet.
Does anybody have some good information about it?
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The first production run of the USAAF A-20Gs of 250 or so came out of the factory with the 4x 20mm nose weapon package.
I believe the reason why the ventral gun was initially left off the A-20G was at the time Pyro could not find any conclusive pictures or data that showed the ventral gun as being part of the A-20G production run.
ack-ack
You are correct just read a little more into the new book I have & came across this page. Since our A-20-G is not listed with what type of A-20-G it is I would say it should be an option.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a20gunpackage.jpg)
I came across this Russian web site on A20's.
http://www.bellabs.ru/51/News.html
It is full of great information & should be able to help HTC solve the ventral gun issue as it has pictures of several here is a few.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Boston-1-11-1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/BostonUSSR_101.gif)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/ventralguna20-1.png)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/reara20-1.png)
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One thing I am curious about is the performance. I have tried to find data on it, but everything I have found lists significantly lower performance than either the Boston Mk III or A-20G have in AH. I haven't found much as it doesn't seem to be a commonly documented feature of it and I haven't searched that deeply yet.
Does anybody have some good information about it?
Close as I can get you at this point.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a20stats.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/enginesona20s.jpg)
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/More_A-20Havoc_Stuff.html
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Smoke screens as well.
Could be a lot of fun or be very annoying :D I guess we wont see this as they had issues with the PT boat smoke screen if I recall correctly.
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1028
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/asstd3/503-nadzab1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/ww2/units/503-para.htm&usg=__54JrWfJ4vaOIgZFDyZC5vMkLARI=&h=264&w=450&sz=41&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=UIk_oZ7FcMSAKM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsmoke%2Bscreens%2Bby%2Ba20%2527s%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GGLL_enUS358US358%26tbs%3Disch:1
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1. You can fly from the gunner's position now. Just no elevator control. Rudder controls = elevators. Throttle is kind of up and down. At the very least, I've landed a bomber from a gunner position before.
2. Just because there was an option does not mean that it was ever equipped or employed. Find it deployed and serving in combat in squadron strength....
3. Rockets and possibly torps look like a field modification. IIRC no field mods allowed. Factory standard only.
wrongway
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Well done Lyric ! :aok in fact the other day I saw some pics of the A20 with 3 rockets under each wing. wish i remembered the site. to go with that A20's did carry parafrag bombs(50 lb white phosphorous or Kenney cocktails) and did skip bombing against shipping. Once again great job ! +2
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1. You can fly from the gunner's position now. Just no elevator control. Rudder controls = elevators. Throttle is kind of up and down. At the very least, I've landed a bomber from a gunner position before.
2. Just because there was an option does not mean that it was ever equipped or employed. Find it deployed and serving in combat in squadron strength....
3. Rockets and possibly torps look like a field modification. IIRC no field mods allowed. Factory standard only.
wrongway
1. Yes that is right as far as AHII is concerned. The way I understand it the Boston had control of all control surfaces & throttle from the gunners position.
2. Specifically what option are you talking about?
3. If no field modifications are allowed then we better get rid of every B-25C strafer we have. As to the best of my knowledge nearly all of those were not done at the factory & most of those were done in Australia along with most of the Fifth air force updates. Most of what I have posted in this thread is under the assumption that perk for ords is still on the plate some were down the line anyways. If so all of the above would be acceptable.
I hope we get the ord package for perks as the list of stuff the Russians did to the A-20 would make this thing a monster in AHII for example 20mm gun pods for their night fighters/rear facing rockets for defense just to name a few.
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If we could do all that stuff it would make the game too much fun. Alaw would have to be made against it.
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The first production run of the USAAF A-20Gs of 250 or so came out of the factory with the 4x 20mm nose weapon package. A large number of these were deployed to a couple of USAAF bomber groups in the PTO for testing and evaluation in combat. The pilots really didn't care for them, the 20mm cannons proved to be unreliable and prone to jamming and the consensus of the pilots were that machine guns were just as effective. The remaining A-20Gs out of the pool of 250 were either converted back to 6x-8x .50 caliber machine guns or given to the Soviets under Lend-Lease with the 4x 20mm cannon intact. The Soviets also received additional A-20G through Lend-Lease that came in both 4x 20mm and multi-machine gun nose weapon packages.
ack-ack
Found a Russian web site with a lot of good info I guess the model A-20-G we have is not the model with the 20mm cannons based off the site. What we have was a model that later had the bombs mounted under the wings so that is what we have in the game. So the 20mm's are just not an option at this point maybe with the ord for perks option?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/russianmdelexpla-1.png)
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add the 8x250lb internal option for the A-20G too :aok
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Hi Mates
I certainly been fussing about that ventral .50 since the plane appeared in AH. As for the 20MM's, I think we got plenty of punch in the nose with the .50's.
Cheers to all
Majors
249RAF
Oldest Yank in the RAF
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Well researched post on the A-20. :salute
+1 for the rockets :aok
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The dorsal gun possition has been a known fault for at-least 2 years..., and the 20mm guns have been talked about as well.
It's almost a crime that the Boston has been left without the "known" ability to have a chnce at defending itself from low 6 attacks.
Perhaps with this addition of pictures the designers will find thier way to correcting the armorment options on the Havoc/Boston.
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I had noticed on one of the pages I had posted previously a small paragraph about A20G's were built with the option of using torpedo's.
Apparently not used very much by the Western Allies.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan11-7-1-1.jpg)
The Russians liked the idea though & must have decided to load them on the outside of the aircraft. I guess it saved them the hassle of taking off the bomb bay doors as well.
Not to metion the Russian torpedo's look a lot bigger than the bomb bay on the A20G.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/A20_Most.gif)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/1GMTAP_3022_19-03-45.jpg)
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The dorsal gun position has been a known fault for at-least 2 years..., and the 20mm guns have been talked about as well.
It's almost a crime that the Boston has been left without the "known" ability to have a Chance at defending itself from low 6 attacks.
Perhaps with this addition of pictures the designers will find their way to correcting the armorment options on the Havoc/Boston.
Hopefully that will get done when either of these planes come up for upgrades to the game. In the mean time some more pictures of the ventral gun.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan-4.jpg)
This picture I took at the RAAF museum back home over Christmas of their Boston they have on display. It looks like you can see what may be the ventral gun through the gunners window.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/100_9736.jpg)
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Also some creativity on the part of my fellow Australian.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan1-10.jpg)
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I prefer the RATO option :D yeah a vent gun is cute, but nothing says "catch me if ya can" like RATO :x
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/051118-F-1234P-058.jpg)
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Some new stuff I have.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan-7.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan1-12.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan2-22.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan3-14.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan4-13.jpg)
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In the OP....the A-20 with TRACKS...I must have one...I would drive that sucker to work! :rock
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IIRC no field mods allowed. Factory standard only.
wrongway
P-51B uses a field mod canopy...just saying
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The B-25C with the guns in the nose was also a field modification.
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Those pics are beautiful, I wonder if they give enough detail for HTC to model the ventral gunner position on the A20/Boston?
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I wonder if our Boston has the armour plate glass like in the pictures I have posted?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan10-12.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan11-9.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan12-10.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan13-8.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan14-7.jpg)
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Lyric, great work again... :aok as for the bullet proof glass...not sure and i often incur alot of pilot wounds. I know the Boston doesn't have the wep like the A-20 does, I am not a big fan of the .303's. sorry, i digressed... <S>
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I am not a big fan of the .303's.
Neither am I. All the sweeter when you shoot some one down. :D
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p88g.png)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/ZEROCHANCE2.png)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Bostonteaparty.png)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/bostonflash.png)
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Very nice, Lyric, I have gotten a couple of kills in boston, wasnt easy but it was done...
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Bumpity for lyric!
Great research bud! :aok
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Oh god yes!
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I'm suprised I didn't +1 this the first time it came around.
+2, because I missed it the first time.
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It's a shame that Russian site is not working now the stuff the Russians were using like air to air rockets & some were rear facing & a laundry list of weird stuff that they listed. Going to have to try find it again.
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I'd like to see the ventral turret.
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Love all the info in this thread.
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I have so much stuff on the A-20/DB-7 on the internet and acquired a few books that have more info. I think I am pretty close to lyric in locating this stuff. Either way, the option for the 20MM gun package(4 x 20mm and 2 M2 50 cal) should be added. It did see combat so I don't see why not.
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Took a screen shot of a video I just got from home in Australia. It is about Beaufighters & had some video of an A-20 filming from it's ventral gun position.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/lookingoutofventralgunpositionA20.jpg)
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+1! We need more torpedoes dangit.
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Yes, A20 needs an overhaul! :aok
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Just add the A-26 and perk it like the Mossie. Then the A-20 doesn't need an over haul, everyone get all the guns they want, and we have a new plane!
win win win and.. win :aok :aok
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Just add the A-26 and perk it like the Mossie. Then the A-20 doesn't need an over haul, everyone get all the guns they want, and we have a new plane!
win win win and.. win :aok :aok
Exactly how many torpedoes did the A-26 carry again? :D
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lyric, I'd like to see an overhall of the A20 too,but..... do you really want to hand over 4x20mm and 2 50 cals to Cobia or Humble???
That said I still think it should be revamped,it was an important bird throughout the war.
:salute
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The A-20 with Cannon and extra ord? And an aircraft which owes much of its success with these to my homeland? and has Aussie Skin work?
can anyone here say PLUS + 1!!
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lyric, I'd like to see an overhall of the A20 too,but..... do you really want to hand over 4x20mm and 2 50 cals to Cobia or Humble???
That said I still think it should be revamped,it was an important bird throughout the war.
:salute
All depends what model we get? If they just leave it as an A20G with no other model designation after that 20MM cannons are an option with a perk for ords system.
From what I have read though those with them were to nose heavy & suffered on the handling side so they preferred 50's instead as just one of the reasons they did away with them. Now in AHII? those guys may be a handfull. :)
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The A-20 with Cannon and extra ord? And an aircraft which owes much of its success with these to my homeland? and has Aussie Skin work?
can anyone here say PLUS + 1!!
Useing perk for ord set up give me the RAAF Boston with the four 50'S in it instead of the 303's :aok
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lyric, I'd like to see an overhall of the A20 too,but..... do you really want to hand over 4x20mm and 2 50 cals to Cobia or Humble???
That said I still think it should be revamped,it was an important bird throughout the war.
:salute
yes you really do want to hand the 4x20mm over,I promise HT will save $$ on 50.cal ammo :devil
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Torp on Boston. :aok Also you can see ventral gun sticking out.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/RussianBoston-1.jpg)
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A-20 a beast! Give it a cannon and ill never get out of it!
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I wonder if our Boston has the armour plate glass like in the pictures I have posted?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan10-12.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan11-9.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan12-10.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan13-8.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan14-7.jpg)
Number (3.) says Reflector Gunsight but all you see is a knob dial, possibly from the A1 head asssembly that allows you to change the angle of the reflector plate. In the A20G USAAF manual it says an N-3B was installed as the pilots sight. Do you have any pictures of the A20G cockpit that clearly shows the N-3B? It looks like the one in our B25H.
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+1 to the A-20 upgrade!
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Number (3.) says Reflector Gunsight but all you see is a knob dial, possibly from the A1 head asssembly that allows you to change the angle of the reflector plate. In the A20G USAAF manual it says an N-3B was installed as the pilots sight. Do you have any pictures of the A20G cockpit that clearly shows the N-3B? It looks like the one in our B25H.
No coming up blank on that one. It seems all the recent picture's I can find of A20'S have no gun sites in them at all?
http://www.warbirdsite.com/museumgunsights.html
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In this drawing see the knob. Go back to number 3. in your scan from the manual. See the knob? Being a wartime A20G manual I wonder if the omition of the reflector plate was on purpose? You see a cut out of the armored glass in other pictures so there won't be a distortion of the reflection of the reticle.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/KDavis6030/N3B_gunsight.jpg)
If you zoom in on this photo look to the right of the pilots head. A reflector plate.......
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/KDavis6030/051118-F-1234P-038.jpg)
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In this drawing see the knob. Go back to number 3. in your scan from the manual. See the knob? Being a wartime A20G manual I wonder if the omition of the reflector plate was on purpose? You see a cut out of the armored glass in other pictures so there won't be a distortion of the reflection of the reticle.
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/KDavis6030/N3B_gunsight.jpg)
If you zoom in on this photo look to the right of the pilots head. A reflector plate.......
(http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee508/KDavis6030/051118-F-1234P-038.jpg)
Nice pick up on that one. :aok
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Bostons rock. :rock
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Boston418th.jpg)
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I believe on the first 250 or so A-20G's were manufactured with the 4x20MM cannon(Hispano's) and those were replaced by 4x50 cals due to relability problems givng the A-20G its 6x50cal nose configuration.
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hopefully we can get the a-20/boston updated next
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A-20-C.
View of top gunners position & portions of his flight controls.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a20cgunposition.jpg)
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Nice research work Lyric.
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Nice research work Lyric.
Thank you. I just wish that the Russian link I posted still worked. That link had the mother load of information on A-20's & all the weird & wonderful stuff the Russians did with them.
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I believe on the first 250 or so A-20G's were manufactured with the 4x20MM cannon(Hispano's) and those were replaced by 4x50 cals due to relability problems givng the A-20G its 6x50cal nose configuration.
Yep, and the majority of the 20mm equipped A-20Gs were sent to the Soviets were they kept the cannons. I also think the Reds received some additional cannon equipped A-20Gs through Lend-Lease.
ack-ack
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Lyric, not too likely, but maybe try google cache, or archive.org
No google cache but Archive.org has two snapshots. Grab it while it's there...
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Lyric, not too likely, but maybe try google cache, or archive.org
No google cache but Archive.org has two snapshots. Grab it while it's there...
So cool I did not know you could do that. :aok
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Freplay.waybackmachine.org%2F20090329151726%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.bellabs.ru%2F51%2FNews.html
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Link to some photos that may be of use.
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/photogallery/a-20/a-20h-1-do.htm
http://www.1941hag.org/files_featured_ac/a-20.html
http://airshow.smugmug.com/Airplanes/Aviation-Museums/1941-HAG-Museum/12301752_J2cTy#877949821_Le4KY
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Link to some photos that may be of use.
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/photogallery/a-20/a-20h-1-do.htm
http://www.1941hag.org/files_featured_ac/a-20.html
http://airshow.smugmug.com/Airplanes/Aviation-Museums/1941-HAG-Museum/12301752_J2cTy#877949821_Le4KY
:O :banana:
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sweeet pictures :aok
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1. You can fly from the gunner's position now. Just no elevator control. Rudder controls = elevators. Throttle is kind of up and down. At the very least, I've landed a bomber from a gunner position before.
2. Just because there was an option does not mean that it was ever equipped or employed. Find it deployed and serving in combat in squadron strength....
3. Rockets and possibly torps look like a field modification. IIRC no field mods allowed. Factory standard only.
wrongway
You can actually use the elvators. Only the trim tabs. but it's something. You go to the gunner position, hit "X" to bring it out of the default autopilot mode, and then use whatever controls you have for the elevator trim tabs. :D Simple.
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I think the Boston III should have rocket capability and the A20 not. However, the A20 should keep its 8 bombs capability and the A20 should not. The other thing is regarding that drop tank- with the Boston loaded with %100 fuel it only has roughly 30 min of flight, I would for sure use that DT if given the chance. I'd fly a whole lot more bomber missions in Bostons if I could get further. At 12,000, the Boston moves right along at 340mph TAS.
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+100000000000000000000000000
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Sitting here, thinking about Bostons having rockets.....
Then thinking about a SET of Bostons having rockets....
Well, after changing my underwear from the sheer epicness it would be in the game, I would love to use that beast against Cv's and pretty much any purpose!
Boston with rockets +10000
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20mms on these planes sweeet. :aok :salute
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The other thing is regarding that drop tank- with the Boston loaded with %100 fuel it only has roughly 30 min of flight, I would for sure use that DT if given the chance. I'd fly a whole lot more bomber missions in Bostons if I could get further. At 12,000, the Boston moves right along at 340mph TAS.
normal or max cruise settings give you a bunch more range, I normally climb at mil (which doesnt take long with the boston's outstanding climbrate) then cruise (which is still pretty quick for a buff) at 14-15k. that way you can shallow dive and accelerate down to its critical alt if you get intercepted.
I like bostons, the speed, climbrate and agility makes them tolerable for us fighter chaps :D
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How about HTC gives you all the loadouts discussed for the A20 in exchange for removal of F3 mode?
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How about HTC gives you all the loadouts discussed for the A20 in exchange for removal of F3 mode?
would gladly make that swap for the quad 20mm package :aok
but then what excuse would people make for getting pawned by a bomber :ahand this would be intresting to find out :lol
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+1,000,000 for this.
But only after the B-26 gets updated :noid
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(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a20_01.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a20_02.jpg)
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in the top diagram the 4 cannon are labelled 8, so whats in the ports under and behind them in the nose? :headscratch:
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That's....a good question. 9 appears to be pointing at it.
Is it me or is the top part of the 1st page a glass nose A-20?
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in the top diagram the 4 cannon are labelled 8, so whats in the ports under and behind them in the nose? :headscratch:
thats where the 2 .50 cal cheek/chin ports are, the 2 gun choices are 4 x 20mm nose + 2 .50 cal cheek or 4 .50 in the nose + 2 cheek
either way you have 6 guns pointing forward. :ahand
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mines were prolly one of those things that are wishful thinking for what i read.
semp
Prolly?
Are your asci characters taking that much bandwidth?
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Posted the last two line drawings mainly for the cross section of the ventral gun views on the second drawing.
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A page from the handbook gives some idea of the ventral guns sweep.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/A-20_G___J__P-70_A___B_Flight_Op_Inst_-_pp52.jpg)
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+1 lyric nice resreach man give me rockets and torps and I'm a happy camper :devil
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At least we know the Russians took advantage of the factory hole in the cockpit deck to mount a PBP or PAK gunsight.
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/photogallery/boston/636.jpg)
A20 under restoration.
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/photogallery/a-20/ig_a-20_havoc_1600_109.jpg)
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Didn't most crews forgo using the ventral mount as it was pretty much ineffective?
ack-ack
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Didn't most crews forgo using the ventral mount as it was pretty much ineffective?
ack-ack
No idea?
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would gladly make that swap for the quad 20mm package :aok
but then what excuse would people make for getting pawned by a bomber :ahand this would be intresting to find out :lol
They already do get regularly pwned by this bomber :D
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Boston with Torps? +1 - although I think there would need to be a tweak in the speed for a successful launch of a torp, because I don't know how I would get slow enough for a successful torp launch.
Quad 20mm option? Sure, why not. It probably had about the same usage as the 50mm in a 410, and it would have its uses. 60rpg is a bit light, but you would get one really nice strafing run before you died.
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Didn't the ventral gun lower the top speed? I suppose that if it were not used, the lower section was sealed. Also, a 3rd crew (with all his equipment and dirty magazines) means quite a lot of weight.
Our Bostons/A20 are quite fast, is their performance modeled with or without the ventral guns?
I bet that if it cost as little as 5 mph everyone would shout for the removal of the ventral gun.
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Didn't the ventral gun lower the top speed? I suppose that if it were not used, the lower section was sealed. Also, a 3rd crew (with all his equipment and dirty magazines) means quite a lot of weight.
Our Bostons/A20 are quite fast, is their performance modeled with or without the ventral guns?
I bet that if it cost as little as 5 mph everyone would shout for the removal of the ventral gun.
You can make the same argument on the Boston with the top turret. The canopy on that could be open & closed to allow the guns to be pulled into position. Yet in game it is always open & guns are always out.
Do we have extra drag due to that?
No idea it is a good question though as far as what is or not programmed in to the A-20 series.
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All you will ever need to know.
Douglas A-20 A Flight Op Inst (March 1941) - Complete.pdf (http://www.4shared.com/office/kkcz_yw2/Douglas_A-20_A_Flight_Op_Inst_.html)
Douglas A-20 G & J, P-70 A & B Flight Op Inst (Nov.1944) - C.pdf (http://www.4shared.com/office/ZmgSzj78/Douglas_A-20_G__J_P-70_A__B_Fl.html)
Douglas A-20 G Havoc Erection & Maintenance - INCOMPLETE.pdf (http://www.4shared.com/office/MZV26Ynv/Douglas_A-20_G_Havoc_Erection_.html)
If you don't want to down load a PDF file.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/103229355/Douglas-a-20-a-Flight-Op-Inst-March-1941-Complete?secret_password=11x9io1b97jip3pzj0zp
http://www.scribd.com/doc/103229465/Douglas-a-20-G-amp-J-P-70-a-amp-B-Flight-Op-Inst-Nov-1944-C?secret_password=4x4px705gknvo04aej2
http://www.scribd.com/doc/103229558/Douglas-a-20-G-Havoc-Erection-amp-Maintenance-InCOMPLETE?secret_password=21tclto4zc7p8c36lh5q
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Boston manual.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/70424939/1940-AN-01-40AL-2-A-20-Boston-Erection-and-Maintenance-Manual
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Some very good pictures of an A-2OH being restored.
Could be a good source of info even though the aircraft is not complete. :aok
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/photogallery/a-20/a-20h-1-do.htm
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The "H" series had a center hole in the instrument panel deck(you see one picture in the H restoration link) to mount an N-3 or N-9 gunsight. The "G" series had the N-3 mounted just to the left of center to clear the LoS for pulling down the hinged iron ring center line gunsight if needed as a backup. The reflector plate of the gunsight extended up between the armored glass and the windscreen.
I've found some recent photo's for the 416th Bombardment Group in the ETO who used A-20G-25-DO showing center mounted N-3 with a tilting sight head.
I hope Waffle got all the pictures I posted about the "G" series being delivered with N-3 optical gunsights and how they were mounted from an earlier post in the aircraft a vehicles forum.
(http://www.416th.com/CachatPhotos/jpg050/j050_254.jpg)
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+1 to more options for the Boston and A20. And is that a gunsight I see in the pic in the last post, +1 to adding gunsights to the A20 as well
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(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Douglas%20A-20/991706_original_zps5swryzkt.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Douglas%20A-20/991706_original_zps5swryzkt.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Douglas%20A-20/993016_original_zpstd5osiq9.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Douglas%20A-20/993016_original_zpstd5osiq9.jpg.html)
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Link to an Aussi DB-7b Boston early straffer walk around in color. Shows the internal ventral gun position in gory color detail.
http://aussiemodeller.com.au/pages/History/Aircraft/Mead_DB7Boston.html
From the A20G on, an optical gunsight was mounted for the pilot. AAF mounted N3, while RAF and Aussi mounted their own. And Australia made their own version of the Barr&Stroud GM2 MKII called the J178. I remember posting pictures for waffle in the CAC Boomerang post. I hope he downloaded them.
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Link to an Aussi DB-7b Boston early straffer walk around in color. Shows the internal ventral gun position in gory color detail.
http://aussiemodeller.com.au/pages/History/Aircraft/Mead_DB7Boston.html
From the A20G on, an optical gunsight was mounted for the pilot. AAF mounted N3, while RAF and Aussi mounted their own. And Australia made their own version of the Barr&Stroud GM2 MKII called the J178. I remember posting pictures for waffle in the CAC Boomerang post. I hope he downloaded them.
Nice find when I was back home last time I wanted the museum to let me get in that plane to get those same photos.
Of course they said no.
I think you have found all the missing parts for the update when it comes. Wonder if we will get the gunners dual controls if in the even of a pilot death as the real Bostons did.
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That page has been under construction for almost 5 years. This was the first time all of the photos were in place and you could actually pull up the page without errors, warnings about under construction, or just a lot of nothing.
Here is some more restoration:
http://www.lewisairlegends.com/aircraft/a-20-havoc
http://www.ammssydney.com/a20-havoc-boston-restoration/
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/photogallery/a-20/a-20h-1-do.htm
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The second set of controls is interesting. How did the gunner see if he took over?
It looks like it would be tough to look forward from the dorsal position, and impossible to see up to the cockpit.
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The second set of controls is interesting. How did the gunner see if he took over?
It looks like it would be tough to look forward from the dorsal position, and impossible to see up to the cockpit.
The gunners seat spun around to face forward. Not sure of the view though never seen a photo of anyone sitting in that position.
I think it was only used to get back to a safe spot to bail I am not sure if they could land wheels down from the gunners seat. I think the view was just looking out the sides I don't see anyway to look up over the top of the fuselage.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Douglas%20A-20/25_DB7B_29_radio_V_zps7prahlik.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Douglas%20A-20/25_DB7B_29_radio_V_zps7prahlik.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Douglas%20A-20/33_DB7B_35_rear-canopy_V%20a_zpsicyykydl.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Douglas%20A-20/33_DB7B_35_rear-canopy_V%20a_zpsicyykydl.jpg.html)
Edit. :headscratch: Maybe this photo gives a clue a tunnel of sorts where the gunner can view through the pilots window.
Granted a very limited view.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Douglas%20A-20/35_DB7B_37_V_zpsrmacw4nj.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Douglas%20A-20/35_DB7B_37_V_zpsrmacw4nj.jpg.html)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Douglas%20A-20/9582da86-deca-4802-a5f3-b57ef02aaad7_zpsu9fgg96m.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Douglas%20A-20/9582da86-deca-4802-a5f3-b57ef02aaad7_zpsu9fgg96m.jpg.html)
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No tunnel there. It's a shelf where a life raft was stowed.
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
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Hopefully with the next version, we'll get early G production blocks that had the quad 20mm cannon weapon package, along with the ability to carry rockets (3.5 inch bazooka rockets) and carry torpedoes.
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Hopefully with the next version, we'll get early G production blocks that had the quad 20mm cannon weapon package,
Only if they jam a lot. I was reading today that jamming was the reason the 20mm's were replaced with the 50 cal.
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Only if they jam a lot. I was reading today that jamming was the reason the 20mm's were replaced with the 50 cal.
If they did, a lot of players that like to fly cannon armed US planes would be upset.
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Or, with an optical gunsight better utilization of the existing 50's.
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Hopefully with the next version, we'll get early G production blocks that had the quad 20mm cannon weapon package, along with the ability to carry rockets (3.5 inch bazooka rockets) and carry torpedoes.
Quad 20's would need a perk tag, even if only a small one. It also means that it would need it's own model, unless HTC goes with a perk ords/gun system.
Only if they jam a lot. I was reading today that jamming was the reason the 20mm's were replaced with the 50 cal.
If you implement jamming, it will NEED to be implemented on ALL player controlled items. Why should only the quad 20 A-20 be affected by jamming? Either it get's it's own model with a perk tag, or there will be a perk ords/gun system. :) I'm actually thinking HTC will go with the perk ords/gun system, as we are well aware that HTC will NOT model redundant variants (Sea Cane MkII and the F6F-3 come to mind).
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+1
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http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=186
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Add the Rocket Assist Takeoff with the 20mm packet, and you have a winner. Make sure HTC use the Yak3 damage model so you don't have to worry about battle damage.
Hopefully with the next version, we'll get early G production blocks that had the quad 20mm cannon weapon package, along with the ability to carry rockets (3.5 inch bazooka rockets) and carry torpedoes.