Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Makoyouidiot on May 23, 2010, 11:07:36 PM
-
Of the A-5, A-8, and F-8, which performs best as far as speed/climbrate/turning ability and general flying? I've been flying the D-9 and TA-152 a bit, wanted to downgrade so I can farm more perks. :D
-
The A-5 has more pleasant flight characteristics, but the A-8/F-8 are faster.
It is possible that the A-8 might get lightened a little and that could change things up a bit.
-
The F8 and A8 in-game have identical speed and climb charts. That's just how it is in-game, not how it was in reality. The F-8 however is weighed down with about 800-1000 lbs of armor plating and is the WORST option to dogfight in. It is ground attack.
The upside is with all that weight if you get shot in the engine you rarely lose oil. The downside is you can't manuver worth a damn and are shot down from non-oil-related hits.
The A-5 is the way to go. It's much lighter than the A-8 so the turning performance and overall light responses are much more improved. It outclimbs an A-8 any day of the week. The top speed is faster than the A-8 noticably between 4k and 10k, and from there up to 20k it's just a couple mph slower, then from 20k+ it's much much faster. Below 4k the A-8 will be faster.
The major reason for the A8 is the weapons package. It's a bit of a pig in this game (modeled with too much weight), so definitely work your way up to it with the A-5. Many folks enjoy the enhanced firepower of 4x 20mm cannons. Many folks decry the weak hitting power of the A-5s outboard guns, but frankly any 20mm cannon is still better than the 7mm cowling guns. If you choose the 2-cannon package you'll still have more than enough to fight with.
Major problem moving form a Dora backwards is that the Dora has the extra horsepower to climb out of trouble, to scrub E off for a killshot then regain it in time to avoid getting killed. In the A-5 you're going to have a harder time recovering that E. You really don't want to get low and slow, because if you find you're riding a stall you may not be able to get your nose up at all (whereas a dora might be able to). Start out easy and work your way in to knife fights.
-
seems to me the 190 is the preferred squeaker dweeb bird.
the A8 is the 190 HO bird of choice for the 2 weeker.
the Dora seems to be the favored among the short skilled 2 weeker that can't make his mind
up to fight or run.
as slow as the A5 is, i think it handles the best second only to the Dora and the guns are ok.
they all seem to be unstable in a lot of ways but folks love to fly um.
I do know that the A5 and the Dora in the hands of a good stick are very dangerous !!!
I'M just sayin
froger
-
seems to me the 190 is the preferred squeaker dweeb bird.
the A8 is the 190 HO bird of choice for the 2 weeker.
the Dora seems to be the favored among the short skilled 2 weeker that can't make his mind
up to fight or run.
as slow as the A5 is, i think it handles the best second only to the Dora and the guns are ok.
they all seem to be unstable in a lot of ways but folks love to fly um.
I do know that the A5 and the Dora in the hands of a good stick are very dangerous !!!
I'M just sayin
froger
There aren't a lot of good pilots that gravitate towards the 190 series anymore. Pervert and Drediock can dogfight the 190D9's very well. IrishOne and Mazz are very good in the 190A5s. m00t(inactive though) and myself (maybe Sukov emerging?) in the Ta152. KillnU owns in the 190A8. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other Focke Wulf guys that are active.
-
Doom flies them a lot last I checked, I love 'em myself as well.
However, I have to disagree about the squeakers comment. Only squeakers I see in 190s are in A8s suicide porking fields. As the 190 line has no spitfire level of ease and manuverability, most of the 2 weekers and squeakers avoid it because they die in it.
EDIT: I mean of the A/F lines. Naturally the dora's speed makes it squeaker friendly for runners.
-
There aren't a lot of good pilots that gravitate towards the 190 series anymore. Pervert and Drediock can dogfight the 190D9's very well. IrishOne and Mazz are very good in the 190A5s. m00t(inactive though) and myself (maybe Sukov emerging?) in the Ta152. KillnU owns in the 190A8. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other Focke Wulf guys that are active.
Not thinking very hard then, are you? :noid
Bet I could name a few
:devil
-
whenever i see a 190 A-model over an allied base...i think :noid doom is here to pick me and dance through the ack to vulch me again... :noid
-
There aren't a lot of good pilots that gravitate towards the 190 series anymore. Pervert and Drediock can dogfight the 190D9's very well. IrishOne and Mazz are very good in the 190A5s. m00t(inactive though) and myself (maybe Sukov emerging?) in the Ta152. KillnU owns in the 190A8. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other Focke Wulf guys that are active.
FBDragon (190 A-8). I'll take the 190 out for a spin every once in a while. Once you realize its strengths, it is very hard to beat.
-
Doom: ack's worst nightmare :uhoh
-
By no means an expert here, but for BnZ'ing, your asking for the 190A8, while the A5 is a far superior knife fighter. The A5 is my main ride, and I usually do fairly well when I don't fight uphill.
-
I gotta give it to fbdraggon. He loves that a8 and dogfights in it, he is not one to shirk in fear and run that being said if he retained his e just a wee bit better he would be very very dangerous but as is I think he is the only 190 I ever catch in my rearview mirror that I think is about to catch me in a flat turn >.< I hate having to split ess towards the ground because I think the 190 is about to catch me in a flat turn -.-
[Big salute to FbDraggon]
{Never give up on getting better and better in your 190 man. I think some day you can make the plane synonymous with your name}
-
I used to fly 190's a lot. Here, copied and pasted many times from a prior post of mine in the Help and Training forum. Hope this helps:
The 190's have literally NO advantages over any other ac in the game other than roll rate (plus guns in the A8 and speed in the Dora). It requires very strong SA, good knowledge of ACM's and strong E management skills to stay alive. You can't just yank and bank in a 190. Many ACM's are not even feasable given energy states.
Pick your 190 to suit your mission:
190A-5 - Best turner of the group, lightest and most nimble and packs a punch if you load out all 4 cannons although the outboard MGFF's are poor ballistically and many will suggest leaving them in the hanger.
190A-8 - Heaviest of the group but packs the biggest punch with 2x30mm, 2x20mm cannons and 2x13mm machine guns. Great for buff hunting and a decent fighter.
190D-9 - Fastest of the group. Among the fastest in the arena. Purely a B'n'Zer. Lightest gun package with only 2x20mm cannons plus machine guns but they are plenty for taking out fighters.
190F-8 - Best ground attack fighter in the group. Performance is similar to the A-8 so it makes a decent fighter as well.
Ta-152H - Slowest of the group at low to mid alts but among the fastest in the arenas over 20K. 1x30mm plus 2x20mm make it a good high alt hunter. Max dive speed is ~100 mph lower than the other 190's but it will glide forever (which is good as the radiator is prone to damage).
Common charachteristics: Great dive speed (500 ias+) without compression, poor climb rates but zoom climb is good, best roll rates of any plane, poor turn rates but can change direction quickly by using roll rate with gentle turns. The A8 and F8 carry an extra auxilery gas tank not included in the others which extends range. Adding drop tanks adds a rack that remains once the tank is jettisoned resulting in as much as an 8 mph loss.
How to fight: Start fast, preferably with alt. Look to B'n'Z. You can turn to get shots but do not turn more than about 540 degrees total during your engagement and pull gently on the stick when doing so (low-G turns). If you come in behind someone there is almost no escape for them as you can change direction quickly using the roll rate to adjust for a snapshot. Never let the stall buzzer sound. Once you've turned the maximum amount (about 540 degrees of flat turning) exit in a zoom climb for alt then repeat. You need ~3-3.5K seperation to reverse on someone chasing you unless it's in a vertical reversal (see below). Use nose low turns (split-s/low yo-yo, etc.) whenever possible to conserve speed. In general, avoid looping manouvers however, If the 190 has enough speed to use a vertical reversal (pull up, roll 180 degrees then pull down) you'll have at least one good shot opportunity on the bogie below you and, even if that just gets the bogies attention you may get a second opportunity in a subsequent move.
Best defenses: Speed. Use your roll rate to keep pursuing opponents out of plane. Lacking speed use a flat or rolling scissors to try and force an overshoot. Rolling scissors are trickier as the 190's will simply spin around their horizontal axis so you'll need to add some rudder input to gain the offset roll.
IMHO one of the 190's are one of the best familys of fighters in the game if you get to know them. The A-8 is my personal favorite among them and is consistantly among my best planes in terms of K/D.
-
Small error BaldEagl... the Ta152 is much faster than the 190A8 and 190A5, even at low to mid alts. It takes over the D9 at about 23k. It also has an insane amount of wep and carries lots of fuel. This allows it to outrun planes like the P51D and Jugs in a sustained chase.
-
BaldEagl, if I may...
I've also seen the 190A5, A8, and D9 flown in a slashing style with good effect. They seem to start with a shallow dive to build up some speed, race through a group of cons, and use their E to zoom back up. For some reason, the A5 seems to be most succesful at this (I guess it would be due to increased manuverabilty alowing them to get guns to bear on a target easier). Is this a recomended tactic, or would I be screwing myself over with this?
Usually I fly low and jump spits who blows his E turning to HO me (which is easily avoidable IMO).
-
BaldEagl, if I may...
I've also seen the 190A5, A8, and D9 flown in a slashing style with good effect. They seem to start with a shallow dive to build up some speed, race through a group of cons, and use their E to zoom back up. For some reason, the A5 seems to be most succesful at this (I guess it would be due to increased manuverabilty alowing them to get guns to bear on a target easier). Is this a recomended tactic, or would I be screwing myself over with this?
Usually I fly low and jump spits who blows his E turning to HO me (which is easily avoidable IMO).
That's what I meant by "Start fast, preferably with alt. Look to B'n'Z." My style of BnZ doesn't include long extensions. IMO if you let the guy rebuild E before your second pass you're doing it wrong.
-
Not thinking very hard then, are you? :noid
Bet I could name a few
:devil
I could name a whole squad :noid
-
For some reason, the A5 seems to be most succesful at this (I guess it would be due to increased manuverabilty alowing them to get guns to bear on a target easier).
Slashing attacks work just fine.
Like the 109; the 190 (especially at low alt) is well suited to attacking from a relative vertical plain; regardless of whether its position is above or below a target. In such a situation; I think you will find that most actually prefer to attack from below as the over-nose visibility problem is less of a factor and the zoom ability is above average; allowing one, in the event of an unsuccessful pass, to quickly wing over for another pass from above; all while the target thinks you will continue to "extend" like a more typical 190 driver.
This brings us to the next point.
I cant speak much to the Dora or 152; but the A5's primary attribute, so far as I have witnessed, is that very few cartoon pilets expect any 190 to press an attack.
Within 540 degrees; the A5 can turn surprisingly well and its engine is well suited to the MA; peak performance being made from the deck to about 4,500ft, IIRC. Granted it's not a late-war uber-bird but its easy to see how it dominated the comparable Allied A/C of the day.
Change of direction is superb thanks to the vomit-inducing rate of roll. Once you learn how to use that advantage, it can help mitigate the risk of engaging a plane with better sustained turn and/or low-speed performance.
Leave the MG/FF's at home. Ignoring the small magazine and the poor ballistics, the advantages of losing all that outboard weight far eclipse the reduced lethality.
Keep some E handy, the aggression high, the SA at peak and the A5 will surprise.
-
There aren't a lot of good pilots that gravitate towards the 190 series anymore. Pervert and Drediock can dogfight the 190D9's very well. IrishOne and Mazz are very good in the 190A5s. m00t(inactive though) and myself (maybe Sukov emerging?) in the Ta152. KillnU owns in the 190A8. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other Focke Wulf guys that are active.
I think Jonah makes forays in the A8. He's fairly good in it, judging by his overall rank. I'd need to check his stats to see how he fares in the type. All I recall for certain is getting out, "watch the 190..." <boom>
I saw him vaporize a squaddie in an FM2.
I took an A8 up not too long ago to kill a box o lancs. I got killed on landing by SHawk in a Corsair. It's nto such a bad bird. It just can't turn.
-
Its a fantastic plane to fly, alot of people dont know how to make good use of its traits
-
[Big salute to FbDraggon]
{Never give up on getting better and better in your 190 man. I think some day you can make the plane synonymous with your name}
FBDragon is already synonymous with the 190. He lands 190 kills all the time when he is on.
-
IMO, the 190A5 is among the most dangerous planes in the game when flown well. I would personally rank it up there with the P-51, La-7, and P-38.
-
The 190A-8 is an effective plane as long as the person flying it keeps it within its limit. It takes paitients and skill to fight it well. Thorsim is one who exclusively flies the A8. He is very effective in it and shows what can be accomplished with the A8 when it if flown well.
-
Lets not forget that the A5 can outclimb the A8 in most cases. When I fly the A5, I generally fly in low, then use vertical maneuvers to counter those tighter turning spits and 109s. Also, if you have an E advantage, you can rope your targets up in the vertical and use the hammerhead to get back on your opponent. Granted, the 190 isnt the best plane with hammerheads, but does surprisingly well for a single engine aircraft. It just takes a gentle hand on the stick. I find that I can rape the Spit16 a lot better in the A5 than just about any other aircraft.
I had a fight in the A5 against a Spit16 driver a few months ago. One of the best fights I had at that time. We were constantly remerging after struggling to get an angle on eachother for a deflection shot. Eventually the Spit driver was able to get D200 yards off of my tail and stay there. By utilizing my roll rate, I was able to force the guy to overshoot. I was so low to the ground, and slow, that my tailwheel bounced off of the turf as I was pulling up into him as I was shooting his belly. I wish I had the video to share with you guys, but stupid me, I forget to film my sorties. :rolleyes:
-
So, Plazus, does this then mean that you don't share the view that the 190 is a "lead sled", "poorly modelled" or "overmatched" by the Spits?
I'm thinking that such an account lends credence, combined with the known skill levels of early-war LW pilots, to the British fear of the FW on appearance.
For my own part, I hav elittle stick time in the A-5 but can tell you that nothing - and I mean nothing - can pull a transient break or snap roll like one. Such a thing will screw up your aim and possibly ruin your day. However, for every FW I've seen flown well in the MA, I've seen 2-3 flown like a conventional turnfighter. Usually, I'll seek out the latter, since they piss away their very real advantage and put their opponent in the driver's seat.
-
Godzilla,
I feel that the 190 in game is a very capable aircraft. Particularly the A5 and D9. I personally dont like the A8 as it feels like a "lead sled" as one might put it. The A8's high altitude performance is inferior to the A5, despite the A8s speed advantage at low/medium alts. When I hear people whine about the FW's flight model, I simply tune them out because they dont know how to fight in one. The key is roll rate. I personally think roll rate, coupled with climb, is way better than a "turn 'n burn" type aircraft with those traits.
The A5 is superior to the A8 in rate of roll, turn, and climb; and lacks in top speed. The A8 is heavier, rugged, faster, and has more firepower; and lacks in acceleration and just about everything else in the manueverability category. I have seen some people fly both models in the MAs, and quite frankly, the A5 seems to be the better flown aircraft of the two models. I find a lot of people who fly the A8 usually have the heaviest gun package and HO everything in sight. Whereas, I see more A5s flown down low in the tight "knife fights" that I like to get myself into.
-
You make me want to spend more time in the A-5. I've done a good deal of time with th d-9 and the 109s but have done little with the a-5. Well flown, they are certainly a handful.
-
The A5 is a great aircraft, and at least second best for air to air work of the 190's, at least in my oppinion.
One time, I got in a fight with this P-47D40. He kept trying to BnZ me, while I was doing my best to avoid his passes. He eventually gave that up and tried to get on my 6. It was one hell of a fight, neither of us could get on the others 6. Regretfully, an La7 tore in and shot him out of the sky before we could determin the winner.
-
The ki-84 rolls like a Fw.190 and turns better, better climber (non-zoom) and turns better than those darn spits
caparison(vs A-5) http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php (http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php)
please tell me if link is broken
-
Your Ki-84 just barely outclimbs the 190, is just 4mph faster on the deck, is out rolled by the 190's and is VASTLY inferior in diving. Also its just about made of cardboard, even .30's are enough to scare that thing.
Doesn't sound like much of an improvment, especially concidering the drop in firepower you get from A5 and A8, and the drop in preformance from the D9.
-
they ain't .30s they're .50s :)
p.s. fly it
-
Your Ki-84 just barely outclimbs the 190, is just 4mph faster on the deck, is out rolled by the 190's and is VASTLY inferior in diving. Also its just about made of cardboard, even .30's are enough to scare that thing.
Doesn't sound like much of an improvment, especially concidering the drop in firepower you get from A5 and A8, and the drop in preformance from the D9.
I lol'd.
-
they ain't .30s they're .50s :)
p.s. fly it
The cowl guns on the FW190a5 are .30's (7.92mm)
He's talking about .30's being enough to smoke the KI-84.
-
Your Ki-84 just barely outclimbs the 190, is just 4mph faster on the deck, is out rolled by the 190's and is VASTLY inferior in diving. Also its just about made of cardboard, even .30's are enough to scare that thing.
Doesn't sound like much of an improvment, especially concidering the drop in firepower you get from A5 and A8, and the drop in preformance from the D9.
Ki-84 is a pretty tough fighter, FYI. Certainly as tough as the Fw190A-5 and much tougher than Spitfires of any kinds.
I don't know where you got the idea that .30s scare it.
-
Ki-84 isn't exactly "tough" IMO. I've seen ones wing break off from a few 20mm hits.
I've seen one explode after flying through a stream of bullets from a P-47.
-
A5's are very nimble, you need to use rudder/roll/and throttle (just like the La's) together. The A5 will happily get inside ponies and jugs, and defensively the ability to change direction quickly makes it a difficult target for the turners. Sometimes it's fun to lure spixteen onto your 6, work some scissors in and give him a fright.
-
The ki-84 rolls like a Fw.190 and turns better, better climber (non-zoom) and turns better than those darn spits
caparison(vs A-5) http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php (http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php)
please tell me if link is broken
I'm sorry but the Ki-84 rolls nothing like any of the 190's and being a long time Spit pilot I've never seen a Ki-84 that I couldn't out-turn.
-
Ki-84 isn't exactly "tough" IMO. I've seen ones wing break off from a few 20mm hits.
I've seen one explode after flying through a stream of bullets from a P-47.
A few 20mm hits will break the wing off of any fighter. A few .50 cal hits will do so for a Spitfire.
Pilot kills don't tell us anything about durability as every fighter is vulnerable to them.
-
All these disparaging remarks! Oh my!
First, the Fw190A5 may have a decent WEP climb rate when light, but the climb rate drops with the MG/FF, and the A8 suffers horribly when compared to it. The Ki84 may "match" the 190A5 in climb rate, but overall is a much much better dogfighter.
You might as well say the Fw190A5 is superior to the A6M5b. Surely it is in some areas if you compare only the specs, but as an overall dogfighter, the A6m5b is far better in most ways. The same is true with the Ki84. I've flown both the 190 line and the Ki84 extensively in my AH career. I'm not saying the 190s are bad (and please note I still love them), but I am saying that a 190A5/A8/D8 comes up against a Ki84 and it'll be dead (unless it's a D9 and runs away with superior speed).
Food for thought: Very few planes in this game break 4000 fpm climb rates. Top 10% probably. The Ki-84 is one of them. It floats on a stall with full flaps down to 80mph and less in a dogfight. It can out-spiral climb almost anything in the game. It has rapid fire 20mm guns that can kill almost anything in a single hit. Not sure where all this plane bashing is coming from. It's a damn good plane.
-
Ki84 sheds parts at speeds that the FW-190 series a/c are just getting warmed up at :D
-
Ki84 sheds parts at speeds that the FW-190 series a/c are just getting warmed up at :D
Not quite that bad, but yes, that is basically true.
-
I'd still love to know what prompted HTC to model it that way.... It wasn't that way originally, then they updated it and whammo, all of a sudden you lose all 5 control surfaces in a dive. What a rude surprise, and IMO doesn't seam realistic.
-
A few 20mm hits will break the wing off of any fighter. A few .50 cal hits will do so for a Spitfire.
Pilot kills don't tell us anything about durability as every fighter is vulnerable to them.
Literally a few, like 3-4? My A5's taken at least 6 before, and I've chewed up a jug with my 20mm's only to have it limp home.
Either 99% of the hit sprites I see are my 7.62's, or the A5's cannons are fubar.
And I guess you are right, I forgot about the pilot kill insta-explode thing.
-
Literally a few, like 3-4? My A5's taken at least 6 before, and I've chewed up a jug with my 20mm's only to have it limp home.
Either 99% of the hit sprites I see are my 7.62's, or the A5's cannons are fubar.
And I guess you are right, I forgot about the pilot kill insta-explode thing.
Your 20mm's are fine. The hit sprites your are seeing are 8mm rounds. Try firing the 20mm's exclsively to get a feel for the ballistics. The 8mm and the 20mm dont work well together - serving only to throw off aim in my experience.
-
Take the A5, best overall Fw190 in my opinion as well as several others I can name off the top of my head that fly her exclusively as well as myself back when I was actively in the game. Even have a film highlighting what a Rotte` of A5's can do in a gaggle. ;)
Edit:
Here's the youtube link, let me know if it stops mid film ( previously had issues with that ) and I'll upload the AH FV version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mChvWeNgVZY
-
There aren't a lot of good pilots that gravitate towards the 190 series anymore. Pervert and Drediock can dogfight the 190D9's very well. IrishOne and Mazz are very good in the 190A5s. m00t(inactive though) and myself (maybe Sukov emerging?) in the Ta152. KillnU owns in the 190A8. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other Focke Wulf guys that are active.
Doom is a beast IMO :)
-
Best of the 190s in MA 190D without a doubt, requires a completely different mindset from the normal to fight in it, you can turn it yes but thats not what its good at, its a counter-puncher. I suppose you could call it roll fighting?? A lot of people don't have the concept down of a roll being a 3D manoeuvre, the higher the speed the more ground you can cover through out a manoeuvre to avoid guns, it also has the added bonus of using less E than yanking the stick back.
A5 A8 F8 all don't have the engine power to replace E quickly enough to maintain the speed they need to perform in the MA. Its not a huge difference but its significant enough to get you killed as the fight progresses.
http://www.4shared.com/file/XySMEafd/190evasivesvsmany.html
(http://www.4shared.com/file/XySMEafd/190evasivesvsmany.html)
In terms of skill to fly right, I used to think it was the K4 but the Dora snips it to first place although its a complete different fighting style. If you screw up in a fight in a Dora your dead, as satisfying but more challenging than a K4 to fly properly.
-
Outstanding evasive flying Pervert.
:aok
-
I'm a bigot when it comes to AH aircraft, never wanted to fly Axis but woe of woes I like BOTH the A5 and the Ki84. When it comes down to it I have more time in and more of a thing for the A5. Better instrument layout, 9minutes of wep and more bullets to make more things go boom. I also think the A5 is the more survivable of the two (IMHO) with the 84's lack of dive speed and deflection shooting potential (both gun vis and lighter ammo load) it gets stuck more in-plane with the spits while the A5 can BnZ the Spit 16 from several thousand feet above and still outrun the Spixteen around 5-6k while it egresses with wep that will STILL outlast the perturbed survivors. I hate that I like the A5 but when I get tired of my 47's abysmal acceleration it's on. Plus it's sexy. :rock
-
The key to using the 47 is to start with some alt. Nose over and I guarentee it will accelerate quite nicely.
-
The key to using the 47 is to start with some alt. Nose over and I guarentee it will accelerate quite nicely.
I give you the P-47: (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wIIEWL-8LrE/SLf85_DWqgI/AAAAAAAACKo/XP0dVvsJyIo/s400/giant+dog+poo+by+McCarthy.jpg)
-
I give you the P-47: (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wIIEWL-8LrE/SLf85_DWqgI/AAAAAAAACKo/XP0dVvsJyIo/s400/giant+dog+poo+by+McCarthy.jpg)
:lol
-
I give you the P-47: (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wIIEWL-8LrE/SLf85_DWqgI/AAAAAAAACKo/XP0dVvsJyIo/s400/giant+dog+poo+by+McCarthy.jpg)
MMM... look at all that chocolatey goodness! :O
-
I take it you think little of the P-47, Godzilla.
-
I take it you think little of the P-47, Godzilla.
No, no... I acknowledge that some people can look at an image and see chocolatey goodness while my own eyes see huge, inflatable turds.
The '47 just isn't my style. It seems to be able to maneuver supremely well in a high-speed dive, to pack a wallop, and to be able to take big damage. However, when I compare it to the g-14's ability to climb away from trouble or turn (albeit better nose down sans flaps or with flaps upward), it just feels unnatural. It takes a good high-speed shooter to use the Bolt. I'm not that guy. I'm, in fact, a lousy shot and am desperately working on Hartmann's idea of gunnery. If I could land just 5% of my shots, I'd have something much better going on here.
-
I'm only a fair shot at best, but my formula for leading planes at high speed/high deflection is to use twice as much as you think you need, and work from there. Has yet to fail me (I get on target within a few seconds). I would have a much better accuracy percentage if I didn't blaze away at low flying aircraft with a tank's pintil gun.
-
I've found that it is often a good idea when BnZing in a larger engagement to try to be spot on (of course) but if the tracers fall aft so much the better, your quarry is "certain" (there's always that guy) to take evasives when he sees tracers flash by IN FRONT of him. It should tell him 3 things. 1. "Golly I'm getting shot at." 2. You as the shooter have the capability for proper lead. 2. He must now get "out of plane" w you because staying in-plane is suicide- thus he should roll his lift vector away from yours. "Walking" tracers from behind is not good on ammo mileage but this approach can do two things for you besides perhaps preserving the element of surprise. 1. "Spraying noob." 2. "He doesn't have sufficient lead." This train of thought might make your target stay in-plane and continue a turn that you are able to tighten leaving you with only 1 axis to correct. :banana:
And the 47 is a beautiful aircraft IMO. It is every bit as much a shooter's plane as it is a survivor, maybe more so. I can't think of any other plane in the game that can take so many shots in an engagement from so far out from so many angles as the 47. Climbing out of danger is preferable but the 47 loses a lot of new "friends" in a dive. The 109 only loses parts :lol
-
I think G14 compresses about the worst of the 109's, what I usually try to do in jug is get him to follow me down in dive (assuming he came in high, which is typical) I can get that much done, I'm hitting 475-500, I KNOW he's compressed bigger than crap 1k behind me..pulling straight up and rolling back in...gives him too much time to recover, and he eventually zooms up to low earth orbit and I've lost my one advantage...I'm gonna try chopping throttle, 1 notch flaps ...corkscrewing until he hopefully passes me. (REALLY need to DA this at high alt base)
-
bj, this is about 190's not 109's
And letalis, its not a sure thing that he will evade if he sees tracers infront of him. If I see a spit turning get his guns on me (me on the deck, spit 1-2k above me flying in the opposite direction) I know that I'm safe (flying my P-51 or la-7) that I'm safe if I can survive his inital shot, as he won't have the speed or energy to catch me.
About the only time I would evade is if I see its a 110, speed demon, 190A8, or 4x cannon armed plane, as my chances of surviving his attack, or out running him in the case of the low alt speed demons, drops.
-
And letalis, its not a sure thing that he will evade if he sees tracers infront of him. If I see a spit turning get his guns on me (me on the deck, spit 1-2k above me flying in the opposite direction) I know that I'm safe (flying my P-51 or la-7) that I'm safe if I can survive his inital shot, as he won't have the speed or energy to catch me.
About the only time I would evade is if I see its a 110, speed demon, 190A8, or 4x cannon armed plane, as my chances of surviving his attack, or out running him in the case of the low alt speed demons, drops.
No he may not- either due to target fixation or natural selection- I merely said it was in his best interests. As for the narrow criteria for "when I will evade" I was :headscratch: till I reread the "P-51 or La-7" bit...oh the joys of speed.
-
Yes, a great tactic. You'll be tearing it up on the deck, see some n1k2. Bank left, and make a pass at 360mph.
-
bj, this is about 190's not 109's
And letalis, its not a sure thing that he will evade if he sees tracers infront of him. If I see a spit turning get his guns on me (me on the deck, spit 1-2k above me flying in the opposite direction) I know that I'm safe (flying my P-51 or la-7) that I'm safe if I can survive his inital shot, as he won't have the speed or energy to catch me.
About the only time I would evade is if I see its a 110, speed demon, 190A8, or 4x cannon armed plane, as my chances of surviving his attack, or out running him in the case of the low alt speed demons, drops.
hmppfff you and Letalis started it :)
The key to using the 47 is to start with some alt. Nose over and I guarentee it will accelerate quite nicely.
(Oh yah, 109's and jugs make for nice fights....not so much the A5 though :headscratch:)
-
Pherhaps the fighter gods have not seen fit to bless you with the skills required to use a 190 :devil.
-
Pherhaps the fighter gods have not seen fit to bless you with the skills required to use a 190 :devil.
Step 1. HO (if step 1 fails, see step 2)
Step 2. RUN
got it covered :D
-
Most of the 190 line can't outrun diddley squat.
-
Thus, the great emphasis on step 1
-
Problem with a HO is that you can rarely force a win from anything with two cannons or 6 .50's. The exception is if you are flying a 110 or another large airframe.
-
Yah...with most folks, the A8 is the bigger thing for that...D9..1 ping = no radiator
-
True, but the mk108 has balistics that are just TERRIBLE. Anything with Hispanos, Mg151's or .50's will shread your cocpit before your 108's get on target (trigger for them is the same as for the 20mm's)
-
True, but the mk108 has balistics that are just TERRIBLE. Anything with Hispanos, Mg151's or .50's will shread your cocpit before your 108's get on target (trigger for them is the same as for the 20mm's)
You don't have to use Mk 108 in 190A-8 ;)
-
Yes, but it seems the majority do. IDK about bj229r's preferances, but I like the snapshot capabilities, and so take the 30mm's, with the remaining 20mm rounds as my "escape" fund.
-
True, but the mk108 has balistics that are just TERRIBLE. Anything with Hispanos, Mg151's or .50's will shread your cocpit before your 108's get on target (trigger for them is the same as for the 20mm's)
To be honest I have an easier time landing Mk108 30mm rounds in the 190A8 than in the 152, the 109s K4, G14, the old G6, and the 163. For some reason the ballistics "seem" easier even if only slightly. Placebo effect, no doubt, but these weapons multiply your effective killing power for as long as they last. They are more than worth the weight.
Lusche is right that you do not have to take 30mms (or even outboard guns at all). I've flown a A8 with 2-gun package before and mixed it up. I'm not saying it was "nimble" exactly, but I've done it. I'd suggest just up the A5 if that's what you want to do, or a C205. The entire point of putting up with the sluggish weight and horrible handling of the A8 is the extra firepower. That, alone, is why it is so much more lethal a killing machine than the A5.
-
I rarely use the 30mm in the A8, unless I know I'm gonna find bombers. The 20mm package is more than enough, with better ballistics. Cant wait to see if the weight ever gets tweeked tho, you'll see plenty more up.
-
It's not going to be a game-changer if the weights get fixed. The outboard 20mms will weigh more, the 30mms less, the airframe itself a bit lighter. Mind you we still have no word from HTC that they intend to tweak the weights at all.
-
Hey Krusty I just noticed this, but whats up with the "radioactive member" status? Did hitech create a new level just for you :rofl?
-
Hey Krusty I just noticed this, but whats up with the "radioactive member" status? Did hitech create a new level just for you :rofl?
Meester Krusty got his member stuck in the micro. Now he attributes remarkable healing powers to his unit. It helps him "close the deal" at the local watering holes, if you follow.
-
lol. I was wondering if it had to do with that quote from hitech saying something about a "BS meter aleart. I'd say something in the order of 85 Krustys" :devil.
-
Good information. Does any of the more experienced among you have updates on information?
Boo
-
lol. I was wondering if it had to do with that quote from hitech saying something about a "BS meter aleart. I'd say something in the order of 85 Krustys" :devil.
No, Krusty has more than 20,000 posts. Get 20,000 posts and you're a radioactive member.
-
Necro bump. :banana:
-
Worth mentioning, the A5 gets easily pilot sound compared wth the A8.
An observation :a off angle plane reversing 600 in front of an A8 with 4*20mm is as good as ded, with 30mm that won't happen, they nomally hit with the 20mm, and if it's not a spit or 109, they lose an aerlion,while spits and 109 lose the wing/wingtip.
-
Both have the same damage susceptibility. Both get PWs rather easily and smoke the oil instantly.
-
The ki-84 rolls like a Fw.190 and turns better, better climber (non-zoom) and turns better than those darn spits
caparison(vs A-5) http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php (http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php)
please tell me if link is broken
yes, take a 1944 japanese bird and compare it to a plane that flew over Dunkirk.
As for my 2 cents - the dora is really for runners, the A5 is the real fighter, and I respect those who keep at the A8 and even more those who are successful in one (Angeleyes for example) - but overall the A5 is a glove, perfect in almost every way. Yes, its not a magical spit or the japanese spitfire (Ki84 is basically easy mode knife fighting) but when given just a little room to wiggle. . . so much fun.
-
Krusty, from rear I've been pw'ed many times, in an A5, in the A8 only from front or sides, during the last year.
-
Guys... you might wanna try taking center fuel/bomb rack when flying 190A-8. To me the center rack kinda cures the nasty snap stall and kinda make 190A-8/F-8 a bit more stable.
-
Your Ki-84 just barely outclimbs the 190, is just 4mph faster on the deck, is out rolled by the 190's and is VASTLY inferior in diving. Also its just about made of cardboard, even .30's are enough to scare that thing.
Doesn't sound like much of an improvment, especially concidering the drop in firepower you get from A5 and A8, and the drop in preformance from the D9.
Ive take a hell of a beating in the ki bfore. mainly in 7 on 1 fights. Just all depends on where you get hit.
-
Guys... you might wanna try taking center fuel/bomb rack when flying 190A-8. To me the center rack kinda cures the nasty snap stall and kinda make 190A-8/F-8 a bit more stable.
The A-8 were supposed to carry this rack to restore CoG as that shifted rearwards with the aux fuel tank installed. I assume the same was achieved by using the BMW 801TU engine pack (a bit more armor = heavier = CoG moved forwards).