Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: humble on June 08, 2010, 10:19:20 PM
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What a total piece of junk. I unloaded and reloaded the "improved" software and it totally porked the JS. For a company (any company) to release a "flagship" product this poorly done is an indication they deserve to go out of business. This is a horrific product deserving of zero support in the flight sim community, the sooner they are gone the better off every other vendor is....just a pathetic offering.
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What a total piece of junk. I unloaded and reloaded the "improved" software and it totally porked the JS. For a company (any company) to release a "flagship" product this poorly done is an indication they deserve to go out of business. This is a horrific product deserving of zero support in the flight sim community, the sooner they are gone the better off every other vendor is....just a pathetic offering.
While my experience is a bit different . I must agree with his recommendation , and company assesment . so +1
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Any details as to why it's a piece?
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It is buggy as hell . Reversal bug many people reporting return to center problems software for profiles is not good . Many people reporting throttle and pedal spiking problems . Many people reporting over heating issues . Support is slow and unresponsive to customer concerns .
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Okay let me guess. You don't like it. I have the G940 and have had a few problems with it but overall I really love it. I had to send it back once but the companies response was quick. I have had no problems getting answers from Logitech support. It just came out recently and I understand the frustration some people feel. I demand good service when I spend good money on something but I realize that it is a new product and it will take some time to get every thing down and running right. I believe there are definite areas that the product can be improved. Especially in the software support for the stick. But so far it is hands down better than my X52 which I had for 4 years. Don't get me wrong I really loved my X52 but it can not touch this stick. My buck nine eighty.
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The bottom line here is simple, the product was released prematurely and suffers from a wide range of problems. Any minimal level of testing across different games and OS would have revealed these issues in less then 72 hours IMO. Since I find it hard to believe that the development team never actually used/tested the offering I'm forced to conclude they followed the criteria of "good enough" with enough as a very minimal standard. The USB connectivity problems are substantial and beyond anything it's competition is dealing with. Issues regarding basic calibration of components and centering/spiking are all preproduction issues that you solve before you take the product to market. To further compound the problems with a firmware/software "fix" that really isn't just reinforces my perception that the company either just doesn't care or that those in charge are simply incompetent.
I don't think that its at all unreasonable to have expectations that the product will work "reasonably" well out of the box and have any basic calibration, spiking, centering and connectivity issues resolved prior to being introduced to the market place. This isn't a question of personal preference or ergonomics, it's an issue of does it work correctly in the broadest sense of the term...and the answer is it does not. You should not have to spend hours trying to "tweak" a HOTAS to get basic and correct functionality.
You can plug any competitors offering in and get correct functionality right out of the box (after drivers are loaded). I would expect no less from the G940 and it fails miserably...
As for the X52 (and I had the X36/45 and 52). The X36 was the best of the 3 and outside of the FFB and split throttle all 3 are head and shoulders over the G940. Simple stuff like no clear centering on the "trim" tabs or even having "trim" off the true HOTAS...most of us map trim on a hat just so its on the stick proper (and yes the G940 has plenty of options to do so) but the hat on back of the X52 throttle was perfect for trim IMO. Aince I own one I hope they figure it out and i'll slog thru figuring it all out....but would I buy one again or recommend it...never.
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I'm with Wagger on this. It's not the best stick I have but it's the most fun to fly with when it's not screwed up by a hasty update.
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I'm with Wagger on this. It's not the best stick I have but it's the most fun to fly with when it's not screwed up by a hasty update.
Humble and others are right though, regardless if this is the first generation of the G940 or not, for the price they are charging and presenting them as high end devices, they should work flawlessly out of the box.
When CH released the first force feedback joystick over 15 years ago, it worked flawlessly out of the box. Any issues that arose from it were due to not having the serial ports not properly configured and not because of the device themselves. I guess that's the difference between a well manufactured product from the US and a crappily manufactured product from China.
When it came to get new controllers last month after my 10 year old CH gear started to go south, I got CH gear again after reading the headaches humble was going through and from the others that had posted in the Logitech forums.
ack-ack
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Sorry to hear. The 940 looked sweet enough that I had contemplated giving Logicrap one last chance if I ever decided to go to a HOTAS system. That chance is now gone. How a company can pump out total crap for so long is beyond me.
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Humble, get a thrustmaster warthog for me and try that out next.
We really do appreciate you stepping in the line of fire like this for us.
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Humble, get a thrustmaster warthog for me and try that out next.
We really do appreciate you stepping in the line of fire like this for us.
+1 great idea.... :lol :aok
I'd like to know how it works out. Thing looks sweet but if it's not better than the $40 Thrustmaster I have now, I'll just keep saving my pennies until I can afford a CH set.
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Sometimes you just need to give stuff a try. I've got no problem in that regard, the flip side is passing an honest assessment along. It's well made....but poorly designed. For my sake they hopefully will get it right eventually....but would I buy one again....nada.
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Okay let me guess. You don't like it. I have the G940 and have had a few problems with it but overall I really love it. I had to send it back once but the companies response was quick. I have had no problems getting answers from Logitech support. It just came out recently and I understand the frustration some people feel. I demand good service when I spend good money on something but I realize that it is a new product and it will take some time to get every thing down and running right. I believe there are definite areas that the product can be improved. Especially in the software support for the stick. But so far it is hands down better than my X52 which I had for 4 years. Don't get me wrong I really loved my X52 but it can not touch this stick. My buck nine eighty.
Wrong I do like it . After the update my usb connectivity issues are gone . Stays calibrated . I dont even have it calibrated in AH2 . I get linear response as far as return to center goes in regards to airspeed . Curious thing is in a GV it doesn't do that . My only gripe about ffb still isn't with with logitech . As for slow response . They had people screaming about all of the issues and it took what 8 or 9 months to get a software update . We still have to wait to get full functionality until the 6.0 software is released . Who knows how long until that happens . All of that for a hotas we spent $300.00 for ? No if I go back to the date of purchase and know what I know now , I would pass on it . I went without a lunch for almost 6 months to buy this , fortunately I got some gut since I retired and it didn't hurt <too much> .
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Humble and others are right though, regardless if this is the first generation of the G940 or not, for the price they are charging and presenting them as high end devices, they should work flawlessly out of the box.
When CH released the first force feedback joystick over 15 years ago, it worked flawlessly out of the box. Any issues that arose from it were due to not having the serial ports not properly configured and not because of the device themselves. I guess that's the difference between a well manufactured product from the US and a crappily manufactured product from China.
When it came to get new controllers last month after my 10 year old CH gear started to go south, I got CH gear again after reading the headaches humble was going through and from the others that had posted in the Logitech forums.
ack-ack
Amen brother . I bought one of them 2 months after they came out 3 months after I bought my first computer . I followed the instructions and it was working flawlessly within 20 minutes of me getting it home ! Which it continued to do until gameport became obsolete .
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Ive been using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and luckily for me, I have had almost no issues with it. The only problem I had was that occasionally one of the buttons on the base of the joystick would be unresponsive. The joystick itself feels smooth enough for me and have had no calibration issues. I suppose that I was fortunate to get a good quality stick. Im thinking about going for a CH set in the future when I am making more money at a REAL job instead of at a grocery store.
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Humble and others are right though, regardless if this is the first generation of the G940 or not, for the price they are charging and presenting them as high end devices, they should work flawlessly out of the box.
When CH released the first force feedback joystick over 15 years ago, it worked flawlessly out of the box. Any issues that arose from it were due to not having the serial ports not properly configured and not because of the device themselves. I guess that's the difference between a well manufactured product from the US and a crappily manufactured product from China.
When it came to get new controllers last month after my 10 year old CH gear started to go south, I got CH gear again after reading the headaches humble was going through and from the others that had posted in the Logitech forums.
ack-ack
I also replaced my old ch hotas with a new ch hotas this month. I know it was the right move because I still cant fly worth a damn :)
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Oh yea. Well with my new G940 not only do my pilot skills still suck but I look damn good at the same time.
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looking good is hood enough, I am the best looking in squad :old:
I have a logitec forcefeed back joystick which lost calibration at the drop of a hat, a powered hub sorted out :old:
I bought a CH fighterstick it is very nice stick.
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I'm another completely dissatisfied G940 owner. In addition to terrible rudder spiking, I also have screwed up toe brakes. But the rudder spiking problem makes the unit unusable in AH. I'm on my 3rd replacement with the same problem (which started last November). Logitech's support is just shy of terrible.
The G940 stands as the worst piece of hardware I have ever purchased.
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It's to bad because the hardware itself seems well crafted. Unbelievable that a major company that knows it's had prior issues would put out a product with such poor firmware and software.
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One word CHINA you might want to check the paint on it it may contain lead. :devil
I'v always owed CH and em glad that's the choice I made.
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The Chinese don't use lead paint for imports to America. They use cadmium now. :eek:
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I don't seem to have any problems with spiking on my rudder pedals that I am aware of. What should I look for to find out if my rudder pedals are spiking.
The only set I sent back for replacement is still boxed up in my back room. I ended up with two, don't ask, and while I was waiting for the replacement I put my other to use. Still using it and love it. Maybe I am just a little more patient, or forgiving. But hopefully they will get it fixed with the next patch or software update. After using FFB system it just seems really odd to fly with a joystick that does not have it.
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Agree on the FFB - its really cool.
I can check my spiking two ways. Go to the runway, go to external view and get behind the plane. Then push and hold the rudder pedals 1/2 way in either direction. Within seconds, I can see my rudder flip flopping.
I can also see it under the Logitech profiler calibration window, do the same thing - hold the pedal 1/2 way through its range and watch the little arrow go crazy. Also under the advanced calibration tab in AH, where you can see the digital values. I can watch them change instantaneously up to 20% away from where they should be when I hold a constant turn with the rudder.
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After trying what you described I don't seem to have any problems with rudder spiking.
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I have no problems with spiking when I install the G940 and check it out on my Vista-equipped laptop. Even the toe brake issue disappears. I keep thinking its a driver issue with Win 7, but I think there are Win 7 G940 owners here without the problem.
I've checked Sounds, Video and Game controllers for exclamation points or question marks - the only problems I had there were related to the Data In and Data Out for my Cougar (which I currently use only as a controller to plug my TM Pedals into, so I can fly with peds.) I uninstalled these and it doesn't affect or fix the problem.
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"One word CHINA you might want to check the paint on it it may contain lead."
Not to mock products made in China because they can do things well, and probably would if that was their choice, but when it comes to buying people generally always choose the cheapest product, not the best. Thus the better made product will sell less and soon better products are not made anymore because they are expensive to produce but they do not sell, so crappy products will be expensive and eventually you end up with only expensive crap available.
I always think about my sweet HOTAS Cougar in this respect. Of course they screwed the product by making a crappy gimbal design and putting small carbonfilm pots in it but as I got rid of these deficiencies the stick has worked beautifully and it has been bug free for what, six years now? Would I have payed more if it was made with a decent gimbal and hall-sensors, probably not but if I knew it would serve me, say, ten years, I probably would. So even if the Warthog may have a blood seizing price tag on it when it arrives it may well be worth it if you consider how long you will be interested in flight sims.
-C+
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I have no problems with spiking when I install the G940 and check it out on my Vista-equipped laptop. Even the toe brake issue disappears. I keep thinking its a driver issue with Win 7, but I think there are Win 7 G940 owners here without the problem.
I've checked Sounds, Video and Game controllers for exclamation points or question marks - the only problems I had there were related to the Data In and Data Out for my Cougar (which I currently use only as a controller to plug my TM Pedals into, so I can fly with peds.) I uninstalled these and it doesn't affect or fix the problem.
Oboe that's a puzzle. If it works on your laptop it seems that it's not a G940 problem or it would be the same on every system.
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I've been researching G940 issues for awhile now.. I finally bit the bullet and ordered one, but I found one new for under $200 shipped (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Flight-System-Feedback-Joystick/dp/B002G1YPP2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1277746473&sr=8-1). Keep in mind that Amazon has been showing it for this price for a couple of weeks now, but until today it was on 'backorder'. This tells me that Logitech has released a batch of G940s at a much lower price to them. Wishful thinking tells me that this is because they just finished building a new batch with some hardware corrections, but part of me thinks that they are currently building an updated batch, but they are selling what's left of the old ones cheaper. Only time will tell which is the case though.
I'm honestly not so worried about the FF issues, as I have confidence that it will all be corrected for the 6.0 software release. The 'reversal bug' does bother me a bit, but I've heard people complain like crazy about it, and I've seen others that really don't notice it... so I'm hoping that it's one of those things you wouldn't even notice unless you were either extremely anal, or were looking for it specifically. We'll see.
What especially bothers me is the Rudder Pedal spiking issue, however I'm thinking that it's a driver issue. I've noticed that on their website, the 64 bit driver for windows 7 has been omitted. Possibly a website error, and the file itself can be downloaded, but the link for it is missing for some reason. I'm wondering if people are installing the 32 bit driver onto 64 bit Win7, and this may be causing the issues? It's just a theory. Anyways, the 64bit driver can be downloaded HERE (http://ftp://ftp.logitech.com/pub/techsupport/joystick/lgs509_x64.exe) so maybe if you guys are having issues, it's worth checking into.
I'll let you guys know when I get my stick in... supposed to be delivered on the 30th.
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Tigger the 64 bit software was only off the site for a few days. It's back and it's the same version they had previously.
Even with it's problems the G940 is a steal at $200. Just don't ruin it with the firmware update. :joystick:
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Tigger the 64 bit software was only off the site for a few days. It's back and it's the same version they had previously.
Even with it's problems the G940 is a steal at $200. Just don't ruin it with the firmware update. :joystick:
Right on.. I didn't know that.
And I don't plan to, until someone finds a way to revert it back if need be...
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Wow, I just got an email from Logitech support, saying I have exhausted all their troubleshooting fixes and that I should just wait for the next 3-4 months in the hope that the next firmware release might correct the problem.
I'm sorta speechless.
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yup, bumping it again. FFB and any type of calibration cut on on me 4 times in 30 min today.
Total garbage...will never buy anything of any kind from these guys EVER again...not even a mouse.
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Hey Humble. Maybe you could try the new Wart Hog Hotas or a CH Set up. Betting the CH set up would be your best bet.
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Stuck with the goat I brought to the dance for now....hopefully for those of us stuck with this thing a future firmware patch will be forthcoming.
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Guess I am one of the only ones enjoying their G940. Hope the software coming out or future patches can fix your problems. Best of luck.
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Guess I am one of the only ones enjoying their G940. Hope the software coming out or future patches can fix your problems. Best of luck.
I'm still loving mine as well.. The only thing I don't like is it's touchy with auto-level, etc (probably correctable by enabling center spring but I refuse to), and I am noticing the 'reversal-bug' a bit but it's not that big of a deal.
I've also found a few bugs in the programming software... but overall I'm very happy with my purchase...
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I adjusted mine a couple of times but once I got it to feel right I quit messing with it.
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Ok I'm looking at buying this stick, I have a good price for it (I think) 298.00 for stick throttle and pedals, is it worth the price?? Your opinions will help my decision.
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There's no way I would have paid $300 for the setup.. even knowing what I know now. Even though I'm in 'like' with the stick, it does have a few minor issues that a LOT of people are bitter about... things that should have been found and corrected before they even began to sell the stick in the first place. This is not a $20 throwaway... this is supposed to be a high-grade HOTAS setup.
I got very lucky and found it for sale (new) at Amazon.com for $199.99 with free shipping. For that price (33% off) I was willing to take the chance of hating it, knowing I can resale it on Ebay for what I paid. I see now that they've raised the price to $252 (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Flight-System-Feedback-Joystick/dp/B002G1YPP2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1279006303&sr=8-1), so it looks like you've missed that boat.
However, $252 is still almost fifty bucks cheaper than what you're looking at, so click on that link and determine that for yourself. List on this IIRC is $329 but everyone's non-sale price seems to hover right at $299, so keeping that in mind your $298 is not that good of a deal.
If you search the Aces High Message Boards (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php) and the LOGITECH PC Gaming Forums (http://forums.logitech.com/t5/PC-Gaming/bd-p/pcgaming) you'll find many complaints about this stick including the following:
- Buggy Software... they had to have at least *2* software updates to get one that wouldn't even crash, and then another to begin to attempt to fix some of the other problems, but creating new problems in the process
- Spiking Rudders... it seems that most people complaining of this are using Windows 7 64-bit, which is what I'm using. I have not had one single problem with the Rudders so far so I am unable to verify this as being a potential issue. It could be a physical problem with the Rudder POT that has since been corrected on the assembly line.. it could be a driver issue that has since been corrected with the 5.09 version release... or maybe I just got lucky with a good one... I just don't know
- Y Axis "Reversal Bug"... I can reproduce this and while it is mildly annoying it's not a deal-breaker. This is what they have been trying to correct with software and an updated stick Firmware. Some people are reporting success, others not.. and even more claim that the firmware update changed around the force feedback action (for the worse). I run the updated driver software (5.09) but HAVE NOT updated the firmware in my stick. When someone finds a way to safely revert it back to the old version if need be I'll give it a go, but for the time being I'll leave it as is.
- Buzzing noise from stick when not in use... I experience this myself... a slight touch to the stick will make it stop.. either that or unplugging its power source. This is reported to be fixed with the firmware update, but doesn't bother me enough to make that leap.
- Lack of detents on trim knobs... Yes it's mildly annoying... no there's really nothing that can be done about it without modifying the trim knobs physically.
- Lack of a utility to change the throttle button colors. They can be green, yellow, red, or black (off) but they never stray from green. There is no option to program this. Logitech claims it's up to each individual game to support this feature and simply put, nobody does yet. A few people have written third party software to do this but so far the only software that can actively be programmed to change these colors is FSX. It's really not a biggie.. I'd be too lazy to program it anyway.
- This is really my biggest issue with this stick. It may be correctable by enabling 'center spring' force but I don't want to do that because I love how the stick feels with it off. Anyway, my issue is within AH if I enable auto pilot and then take my hand off of the stick, the stick wants to 'flop down' because when the sensor doesn't see your hand on it, it disables the motors. When the stick flops down, my autopilot deactivates so to make it work I have to move the stick to center (without triggering the proximity sensor) and get it in just the perfect position so it balances in place. I'd like to see it so that it 'reports' centered values when your hand is off of the stick, regardless of the stick's actual position (or at least have an option to enable this).
Logitech is supposedly in the process of writing an all new, from the ground-up, 6.0 software, driver, and firmware package for this stick to address many of the customer complaints about this stick. They stopped working on it for several months to create the 5.09 version as a stop-gap update to make some people less angry, but it seems a lot of people are more disappointed in the 5.09 than were angry previously. All I can hope for is that the 6.0 software is a HUGE improvement, but they don't get in any hurry over there.. I wouldn't expect it to be released for at least another six months.
Even with its issues, I really do like this stick. It is many times more precise than my X52 ever was and it feels many times more sturdy as well.. well except for the throttle which feels a tad on the 'cheap' side, but works great! My gunnery skills have increased noticeably as well, with my fighter rank dropping from about 2400 to under 1100 (bringing my overall rank down to just over 200). Not that I especially care about score, but it feels good to see an improvement! It has given me a new factor in immersion, allowing me to fly a plane by feel, as well as sight and sound.. and it seems as if I can push it just that much more because you can feel it when a wing starts to stall, etc. It's actually very impressive.
Like I said in the beginning of this novel though... For $200 I was willing to take a chance.. for $300.. there's no way. For $250.. I'd do some serious thinking about it. Having used this stick for a couple of weeks now, yeah I'd maybe go $250.. but going in sight-unseen... no probably not.
If you are willing to take that chance though, I am willing to recommend it.
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One of the problems facing the G940 is the FFS. Most of the games out now, AH included, were not developed with the G940 in mind. Alot is said about other systems, CH, being better and having better support. What I see is that CH did not have to deal with FFS. That frees it up a lot as far as development of Software. Not saying that it relieves Logitech of their responsibility to insure their product meets the customers expectations but the added feature of FFS that is not modeled into much of the Air Sims today makes it more difficult to pull off what is expected of them. I am very interested in seeing what the next update provides and what Logitech has done to fix some of the problems. For now even with some of the faults stated in many forums I find the G940 far superior to my X52 and a real joy to use.
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Ok I'm looking at buying this stick
really? after reading this thread? :headscratch:
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If you separate out the software/firmare related issues and ignore the USB drop out then the only major issue in my opinion is the very poor rudder pedal desing with regard to resistance. If your used to the CH Propedals like I am then going to the G940 where you have very minimal centering force is a big difference. If the thing worked reasonably well I'd be very happy with the JS/Throttle combo and less then thrilled with the pedals.