Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: grizz441 on June 10, 2010, 05:55:15 PM
-
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iNcCJg-kSyZBjLhEB3fRtcYzaQOgD9G8MB6O1 (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iNcCJg-kSyZBjLhEB3fRtcYzaQOgD9G8MB6O1)
So apparently this girl was trying to sail across the world by herself at the age of 16 and her parents were totally okay with it. Now there's no contact, and it's not looking good. It really baffles me that her parents would let her do this. In fact, it's outright idiocy and blatant neglect. Here's a quote that the mom used to justify it:
"Could there be a tragedy?" MaryAnne Sunderland told ABC News. "Yeah, there could be. But there could be a tragedy on the way home tonight, you know, or driving with her friends in a car at 16."
Unreal.
-
I hope they find her.
-
There's 16 year olds who have more maturity than some people twice their age (hell, you can see it from the maturity of some 30+ year-olds on these forums....) It's unfair to say that the girl didn't have the skill to handle this just because of her age. 200 years ago you had 16 year olds serving as officers and sailors on ships of war.
It will certainly be a tragedy if the worst comes to pass, but you can't blame the parents for a teenager wanting to do something POSITIVE that they enjoy.
-
There's 16 year olds who have more maturity than some people twice their age (hell, you can see it from the maturity of some 30+ year-olds on these forums....) It's unfair to say that the girl didn't have the skill to handle this just because of her age. 200 years ago you had 16 year olds serving as officers and sailors on ships of war.
It will certainly be a tragedy if the worst comes to pass, but you can't blame the parents for a teenager wanting to do something POSITIVE that they enjoy.
yes you can!!! until they are adults they are under YOUR supervision, I will be dead before I let my kids do the things "they want"
it's called good parenting, the parenting of today is straight up horrible they let the kids run the streets do and say whatever they want, it's sad really, very few kids now a days respect there parents, they think they have "privacy" :rofl
NOT in my house, I go through my kids FaceBook and Myspace and anything else that I feel I should, I make them delete friends that say bad crap or leave sexual comments. heck I regret even letting them have a Facebook/myspace.
-
There's 16 year olds who have more maturity than some people twice their age (hell, you can see it from the maturity of some 30+ year-olds on these forums....) It's unfair to say that the girl didn't have the skill to handle this just because of her age. 200 years ago you had 16 year olds serving as officers and sailors on ships of war.
It will certainly be a tragedy if the worst comes to pass, but you can't blame the parents for a teenager wanting to do something POSITIVE that they enjoy.
If that "positive" is at the expense of considerable risk to the adolescent, then yes I can blame the parents.
And fyi, there is no way in hell a 16 year old has enough experience to do a solo trip around the world.
Risk isn't a binary function. There are degrees of risk. The fact that the mother would compare soloing around the world at the age of 16 to driving a car is beyond stupid.
-
Is the area that she was last known to be the same place where Somali pirates have been hanging out?
-
I guess a 16yr old Australian girl beat her to it and just completed a solo around the world sailing trip.
I heard ships are 40-48 hours away from her last position, I hope they still find her.
-
I guess a 16yr old Australian girl beat her to it and just completed a solo around the world sailing trip.
I heard ships are 40-48 hours away from her last position, I hope they still find her.
Yeah, I remember that. Jessica Watson I think?
-
Is the area that she was last known to be the same place where Somali pirates have been hanging out?
No, she's literally in the middle of nowhere, 550nm NNE of Port-aux-Français. Really ugly situation. Air temp around 35 degrees, 20-30 ft seas. Huge 940mb low to the south of her. The good news is the boat she's sailing is built for the hairy scary stuff with lot's of positive buoyancy ie air tight compartments built in. Thought's and prayers with her and her family for sure.
(http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv40/ceeceebee_photos/abby.jpg)
-
Parents USING their Daughter for FAME...
KAM
-
When she first set sail on her trip, alot of information about her experience sailing was brought to light by her parents and man other experienced ship captains who knew her. She had been on boats all her life and began intense training and conditioning similar to survival courses by modern militaries.
This information is to be considered at face value and second hand information.
The only thing that the vast majority of uninformed individuals have been clammering about is the fact that it's a 16 year old girl doing this. Big deal. During the American Civil War towards the last year, 16-22 year old boys turned young men were promoted to many high ranking position on both sides and particularly in the Confederate Army the most. Up until the turn of the 20th Century, many boys were kicked off the farm at age 12 and told to make thier own way in life and the girls were married off at 14 to 16 years of age to reduce the amount of mouths to feed left on the farm since contraception devoces hadn't been invented or perfected.
Until the Great Depression struck America during the 1930's, most children of the poor and poverished families stopped all education around 10 years of age to work in the sweat shops of industry. The sudden loss of jobs nationwide created the first beginnings of child gangs running the streets in all major cities in America. Crime rates went up dramatically due to thousands of children with nothing to do in the cities.
In order to control the rising crime waves from the kids, Frankiln Roosevelt through the various federal agencies and state agencies began a largescale project to kill 3 birds with one stone in the 1930's. The first state and federal laws were passed to enforce education to all children from 1st to 8th grade and later to the 12 th grade and finally inclusion of kindergarten. This one thing dis three seperatr thing simultaneously but with the speed of any beuracracy.
1) Created jobs in construction for new schools
2) Created jobs with hiring teachers, administrators, and support staff
3) Brought the delinquent children into the schools for an education
For the last 70 plus years, we have enjoyed this public school system that has created this so called idea that children aren't responsible until 18 due to federal law stating this. Each child is different due to upbringing and personal experience. It's true that the vast majority of 16 year ols are immature. They don't have real responsibility.
A small percentage of 16 year olds due have an adult maturity to them from several different possibilites. Anything from loss of a parent early in thier life, the unplanned pregnancy and parenthood thrust quickly and responsibilty inherent, the low income family with a drop out rate and forced into work forceearly, the family that travels to other foreign countries and exposed to third world situations, and third world children inducted into militia groups and military service resulting in taking the lives of other people.
Once upon a time, a 16 year old boy or girl was considered an adult in every sense of the word.
-
Once upon a time, a 16 year old boy or girl was considered an adult in every sense of the word.
Lame ..Once upon a time Men married and had sex with 12 year old girls, Dosent make it right for NOW now DOES IT? Times change and kids are kids longer today then from Once upon a time.
KAM
-
I question her experience not because of my view of her perceived maturity, but because she is 16 years old and imo to safely solo around the world, you'd need 10-20 years of boating experience. So how many years of quality experience does she actually have? Can't be that many. I don't consider being on a boat at ages before you even know how to read a compass as 'experience.'
-
I question her experience not because of my view of her perceived maturity, but because she is 16 years old and imo to safely solo around the world, you'd need 10-20 years of boating experience. So how many years of quality experience does she actually have? Can't be that many. I don't consider being on a boat at ages before you even know how to read a compass as 'experience.'
To be blunt, raise your own damn kids. You don't know the girl. You don't know the parents. You don't know what's right for her. It's not your responsibility, and it's not your place to cast judgment.
It's a simple fact: Children who grow up with something attain a high level of expertise at it VERY quickly and early. That's why it's easier for young children to pick up foreign languages, or become virtuoso pianists. I'd trust the 16 year-old girl who spent all 16 years of their life on the water over a man twice their age if their total years of sailing experience was the same.
-
To be blunt, raise your own damn kids. You don't know the girl. You don't know the parents. You don't know what's right for her. It's not your responsibility, and it's not your place to cast judgment.
It's a simple fact: Children who grow up with something attain a high level of expertise at it VERY quickly and early. That's why it's easier for young children to pick up foreign languages, or become virtuoso pianists. I'd trust the 16 year-old girl who spent all 16 years of their life on the water over a man twice their age if their total years of sailing experience was the same.
The fact you consider any boat time from ages 0 to 5 as experience shows how bad you are clinging to straws.
-
And to be blunt Saxman, your logic is terrible. There is no reason for a 16 year old to be traveling the world by themselves. Why? To set a record and establish fame at the risk of their own life? Why not sail for 5 more years and do it at 21 if it's that important. It's blatant neglect. It might not be my business, but it might be the State of California's business if something happened to her. I sure hope not. :pray
-
I guess her older brother did the same thing sailed around the world at age 17, personally is never let my son do that untill hes 18, then if he so choses to i would back him 100%
-
I question her experience not because of my view of her perceived maturity, but because she is 16 years old and imo to safely solo around the world, you'd need 10-20 years of boating experience. So how many years of quality experience does she actually have? Can't be that many. I don't consider being on a boat at ages before you even know how to read a compass as 'experience.'
As mentioned above, a 17 year old Aussie girl just completed her own circumnav and I was just reading about a 13 year old climbed Mt. Everest in May. My only question is why she would leave Cape Town for the Southern Ocean in June. Not smart.
-
As mentioned above, a 17 year old Aussie girl just completed her own circumnav and I was just reading about a 13 year old climbed Mt. Everest in May. My only question is why she would leave Cape Town for the Southern Ocean in June. Not smart.
I don't question that it can be done. If there's a 90% chance of success, 10% of failure and 2% chance of death, does that mean it's worth attempting for a 16 year old? I'd say hell no. More experience would have yielded better decisions.
-
I don't question that it can be done. If there's a 90% chance of success, 10% of failure and 2% chance of death, does that mean it's worth attempting for a 16 year old? I'd say hell no. More experience would have yielded better decisions.
But she isn't your daughter. Who are you to say?
-
But she isn't your daughter. Who are you to say?
Well this is a forum, I am only expressing my opinion, as everyone else is, and is free to do so. The State of California however, might have something to say about it though.
-
Don't make have to break out the cold blankets you two. :D
My bet is based on the information available, she has probabley lost her mast in the storm and is floating adrift in said storm. Probabley getting rolled around and tossed violently if the weather was bad enough to snap the mast. She seems to of unfortunatley made a grave mistake by launching into the South Oceans in a craft of that size and make all by herself. It's a feat that even the most experienced and prepared sailors wouldn't dare to tackle solo in a boat that size during this time of year.
-
The parents should be brought up on charges for allowing this CHILD to sail the high seas alone around the world. WTF are these wack jobs thinking?!
I pray to God she's alright :pray
-
Hope she's okay. :pray
-
Probably all a stunt. Dumb anyways. Shame on the parents.
-
Its winter in the southern hemisphere correct?
-
Its winter in the southern hemisphere correct?
In 10 days, yes. Really nasty down there.
-
Exactly what was the purpose of this stunt?
-
Exactly what was the purpose of this stunt?
Vanity.
-
Looking at my daughter (even tho she is 7), I wouldn't let her go into the city alone at 16, much less travel the globe alone in a small boat. That is, unless I had a nice life insurance policy. :devil
Jokes aside, I don't think the State of Connecticut Dept of Children and Families would be as forgiving as some of you. I guarantee they would take away any other kids I had.
-
Vanity.
Why do people climb mountains?
-
I saw her and her parents and their nonsense on TV just ONE day before it all went to crap.
Welcome to the new world, half the parents protect their kids to much, and 30 percent are pushing their kids to hard.
-
Welcome to the new world, half the parents protect their kids to much, and 30 percent are pushing their kids to hard.
Protect too much...NOW thats too funny. Your way out of touch thinking that.....
KAM
(Single Parent of a 15, 14, and 8 year old)
Seriously, Define your view on a overprotective parents you are seeing out there.
-
Why do people climb mountains?
To accomplish something. When you venture into extreme/dangerous sports however, you are risking your life, plain and simple. Adults should only be allowed to make such a decision for themselves. A 16 year old is not old enough, nor has enough perspective, experience, or legal right, to make a decision like that. A parent should not make that decision for their child, that's neglectful parenting, which really is not strong enough of a word to describe it. It's vanity because it's all about setting some sort of a record, getting in the news, and getting famous. A trip around the world can be attempted at the age of 16 or at an older age. It's not nearly as news worthy though if a 21 year old does it. That won't get you a trip to The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. If it's about a sense of accomplishment, practice more till you're at least of legal age, have your life figured out, what you want to do with it, and if you still want to make this a life goal, then go for it. 13 year olds climbing mount everest? 16 year olds trying to sail the ocean by themselves through dangerous oceans? That is flat out irresponsible parenting, regardless of the outcome.
-
I hope she is found alive..... It looks like with hind sight that this was a bad decision now that something went wrong. Once you look at other information like they knew there would be bad weather this time of year. It looks like forsight would say this was a bad idea also. I mean come on to me a guy living in Arizona bad weather is a little snow. To experienced pros that have sailed their whole life bad weather must mean "the sea will kill you"....
-
I decided the parents were wrong when I read this article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100611/ts_nm/us_girl_sailor. Towards the end the article states, "sailing experts said that she was ill-advised to leave California in January, because she risked arriving in the Indian Ocean at the start of the winter season."
Apparently her brother completed the same feat at 17, but he left at a different time of the year, when sea conditions are less risky. She essentially left early so that she would become the youngest to circumnavigate the globe. No one in their right mind would leave when she did, unless they were caught up in the excitement of chasing a ridiculous title. A 16 year old can be easily caught up in this excitement, which makes it the parents' responsibility to be the voice of reason.
-
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iNcCJg-kSyZBjLhEB3fRtcYzaQOgD9G8MB6O1 (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iNcCJg-kSyZBjLhEB3fRtcYzaQOgD9G8MB6O1)
So apparently this girl was trying to sail across the world by herself at the age of 16 and her parents were totally okay with it. Now there's no contact, and it's not looking good. It really baffles me that her parents would let her do this. In fact, it's outright idiocy and blatant neglect. Here's a quote that the mom used to justify it:
"Could there be a tragedy?" MaryAnne Sunderland told ABC News. "Yeah, there could be. But there could be a tragedy on the way home tonight, you know, or driving with her friends in a car at 16."
Unreal.
Not having read the article, I'm going our on a limb and say they're from CA
-
Grizz,
When you have children, or if you do, you will be able to see their dreams and see their abilities and you can make that decision for them.
-
I'm all for encouraging kids to do stuff. Sailing around the world at 16 (for a kid properly prepared) is no more dangerous than driving a car at 16. But leaving California in January to beat an artificial deadline and ending up in the Southern Ocean at this time of year makes it a stunt and not something done in the spirit of adventure....
And my kids were not allowed to get driver's license until 18. Learner's permits at 16. License at 18. Didn't kill either one of them to wait.
-
Found ok apparently,
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/11/searchers-contact-calif-teen-lost-sea/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/11/searchers-contact-calif-teen-lost-sea/)
-
Found ok apparently,
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/11/searchers-contact-calif-teen-lost-sea/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/11/searchers-contact-calif-teen-lost-sea/)
sooooo... FAIL
-
WIN
-
See Rule #6
-
To accomplish something. When you venture into extreme/dangerous sports however, you are risking your life, plain and simple. Adults should only be allowed to make such a decision for themselves. A 16 year old is not old enough, nor has enough perspective, experience, or legal right, to make a decision like that. A parent should not make that decision for their child, that's neglectful parenting, which really is not strong enough of a word to describe it. It's vanity because it's all about setting some sort of a record, getting in the news, and getting famous. A trip around the world can be attempted at the age of 16 or at an older age. It's not nearly as news worthy though if a 21 year old does it. That won't get you a trip to The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. If it's about a sense of accomplishment, practice more till you're at least of legal age, have your life figured out, what you want to do with it, and if you still want to make this a life goal, then go for it. 13 year olds climbing mount everest? 16 year olds trying to sail the ocean by themselves through dangerous oceans? That is flat out irresponsible parenting, regardless of the outcome.
When you "Sail" around the world you are along for the ride, all you have to do is keep the sails in check, and you are good to go.
I sail a sunfish, now thats some hard work. :old:
-
Good news, glad to see she is ok.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100611/ap_on_sp_ot/lost_sailor_found (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100611/ap_on_sp_ot/lost_sailor_found)
-
Once upon a time, a 16 year old boy or girl was considered an adult in every sense of the word.
QFT. Less than 100 years ago people here age were considered adults or children based entirely on their actions. I have read dozens of historical accounts where 14 year old (or younger) runaways working on sailing ships were a "normal" thing, and 16 was easily considered adulthood. Yes the risks are pretty high, but adults take risks.
The only issue I would have is if she didn't want to go, and she was forced to by her parents. If that were the case though, I bet she would have aborted the voyage by now.
-
If that "positive" is at the expense of considerable risk to the adolescent, then yes I can blame the parents.
And fyi, there is no way in hell a 16 year old has enough experience to do a solo trip around the world.
Risk isn't a binary function. There are degrees of risk. The fact that the mother would compare soloing around the world at the age of 16 to driving a car is beyond stupid.
I know, right? You have to be at list 17 or 18?
This decision is between her and her parents. You have no idea who she is what she could do etc. People should deal with their own watermelon and leave others alone. If the parents thought she was mature enough and had the skills to do it then we have nothing to say. Things could go wrong at the sea no matter how old you are or how mature you are. You don;t like it, don;t let your kids do it until they are 18 (cause you know, that is when the government said we are mature enough). However, stay out of other peoples business, especially when you know nothing about them and their actions do not have any impact on you.
So now, statistically, what is more dangerous? Being in plain, a boat, or in car with a bunch of inexperienced drunk teenagers? I assume you know the answer since you called her mother stupid for comparing them.
Funny how we can send 18 year old kids to war but sailing at 16 is stupid :rofl
-
Sailng - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQeqmNbA2Hs&feature=related :D
Depends on the kid.... one size does not fit all.
-
she's alive :aok
-
However, stay out of other peoples business, especially when you know nothing about them and their actions do not have any impact on you.
:lol
It was national news, and this is an intardnet forum. I'm not in their business, I'm just voicing my opinion on a current issue. No problem with disagreement, but don't pretend like I'm stepping on the family's toes over this thread. :lol
Glad she was found and is safe.
-
:lol
It was national news, and this is an intardnet forum. I'm not in their business, I'm just voicing my opinion on a current issue. No problem with disagreement, but don't pretend like I'm stepping on the family's toes over this thread. :lol
Glad she was found and is safe.
Yep, and I am voicing mine
-
How many parents let their kids buy Maximas or WRX's each year? I'd much rather they sent them sailing.
-
Yep, and I am voicing mine
You told me to stay out of others business, and I let you know that I was not in their business. :aok
-
I'm a qualified sailing instructor, have sailed in everything from Laser dingies to Volvo Ocean Racers. I have a female friend who have circumnavigated solo - albeit in her early 20's. I've also met many 16 year olds who are capable of doing it. Adding another five years wouldn't change their ability to cope with a problem if / when it occurred. The only question is when we stop protecting them and decide it's up to them. If we're deciding this is too risky for a 16 year old, then where do we draw the line? Are snow sports too risky? How about mountain or trail biking? Football?
16 is an age I think we can start letting kids take adult risks if - as many of them are - they have the maturity to handle it. At 16, I was climbing and skiing off-piste in the Alps and taking part in blue water sailing events. Those are experiences that shaped who I am and wouldn't have changed it for anything. My wife's parents on the other hand wouldn't let her learn to swim in 'because she might drown'. Ask her now what kind of upbringing she would rather have had.
There's only two things concerning me here:
1. Did they really base their decision on when to leave on her breaking a record at the expense of good judgment on weather conditions? That would have been dumb. Not criminally dumb, but certainly dumb.
and
2. Who's compensating the Aussies for another Southern Ocean rescue mission?
-
yes you can!!! until they are adults they are under YOUR supervision, I will be dead before I let my kids do the things "they want"
it's called good parenting, the parenting of today is straight up horrible they let the kids run the streets do and say whatever they want, it's sad really, very few kids now a days respect there parents, they think they have "privacy" :rofl
NOT in my house, I go through my kids FaceBook and Myspace and anything else that I feel I should, I make them delete friends that say bad crap or leave sexual comments. heck I regret even letting them have a Facebook/myspace.
That sounds, neurotic. I'm sorry, but that makes you sound like a control freak- I could see if you were living in some sort of horrid situation with drugs being found everywhere and all that jazz. It doesn't seem to be that way though; it seems to me that you are warping these kids by having them live in a police state. If you force yourself into every facet of their existence, then they will have issues later on.
Here's a good example:
Parent invades every inch of kid's life->
Kid sees parent as overbearing/raider (as in raiding everything the child has to think about)->
Kid has three options->
1.)Accept it and move on with no problems
2.)Take offence and rebel
3.)See option 1 but with problems such as neuroticism, vicarious existence (goes to other control extreme), and does everything that you said no to
Anecdotally, the looming presence of a "big brother" watching everything you do is just creepy- where does it all end? If you fear not rifling through a MySpace or Facebook, a secret keylogger shouldn't be a stretch. Or perhaps a screen-capture bot that will constantly stream their browsing? Or how about a(some) camera(s) in their room to watch what they do in there? Heck, even a door shouldn't be allowed!
To conclude my point, all things in moderation- Privacy, just like Risk, is a binary function or a zero-sum game, both parties can benefit from doing things in degrees.
-Penguin
-
Its always when things go wrong that some people get attention. If it weren't for that distress call, no one would have heard of her. Her brother made it around the globe too at age 17... Never heard of it.
So many people have been on call to find her (and they did, thankfully), and now, she attracts more attention than if she had actually made it. Everyone blames the parents for taking too much risks. That's probably because the most dangerous thing they do is drive a car between working behind an office or sleeping in front of the TV. Like some people have said on this forum: Back in the days at this age, it was time to find a husband and have a house for yourselves or be ashamed. Times have changed yes, but life is a dangerous road. Cope with it.
-
but life is a dangerous road. Cope with it.
it is not, but you can make it really dangerous if you want.
That sounds, neurotic. I'm sorry, but that makes you sound like a control freak- I could see if you were living in some sort of horrid situation with drugs being found everywhere and all that jazz. It doesn't seem to be that way though; it seems to me that you are warping these kids by having them live in a police state. If you force yourself into every facet of their existence, then they will have issues later on.
Here's a good example:
Parent invades every inch of kid's life->
Kid sees parent as overbearing/raider (as in raiding everything the child has to think about)->
Kid has three options->
1.)Accept it and move on with no problems
2.)Take offence and rebel
3.)See option 1 but with problems such as neuroticism, vicarious existence (goes to other control extreme), and does everything that you said no to
Anecdotally, the looming presence of a "big brother" watching everything you do is just creepy- where does it all end? If you fear not rifling through a MySpace or Facebook, a secret keylogger shouldn't be a stretch. Or perhaps a screen-capture bot that will constantly stream their browsing? Or how about a(some) camera(s) in their room to watch what they do in there? Heck, even a door shouldn't be allowed!
To conclude my point, all things in moderation- Privacy, just like Risk, is a binary function or a zero-sum game, both parties can benefit from doing things in degrees.
-Penguin
wow so wrong in so many levels.
semp
-
That sounds, neurotic. I'm sorry, but that makes you sound like a control freak- I could see if you were living in some sort of horrid situation with drugs being found everywhere and all that jazz. It doesn't seem to be that way though; it seems to me that you are warping these kids by having them live in a police state. If you force yourself into every facet of their existence, then they will have issues later on.
Here's a good example:
Parent invades every inch of kid's life->
Kid sees parent as overbearing/raider (as in raiding everything the child has to think about)->
Kid has three options->
1.)Accept it and move on with no problems
2.)Take offence and rebel
3.)See option 1 but with problems such as neuroticism, vicarious existence (goes to other control extreme), and does everything that you said no to
Anecdotally, the looming presence of a "big brother" watching everything you do is just creepy- where does it all end? If you fear not rifling through a MySpace or Facebook, a secret keylogger shouldn't be a stretch. Or perhaps a screen-capture bot that will constantly stream their browsing? Or how about a(some) camera(s) in their room to watch what they do in there? Heck, even a door shouldn't be allowed!
To conclude my point, all things in moderation- Privacy, just like Risk, is a binary function or a zero-sum game, both parties can benefit from doing things in degrees.
-Penguin
lol obviously you are oblivious to the fact that in the very small town I live in, there are 16 and 17 year old heroin junkies, kids in 7th grade getting pregnant, ecstasy is rampant, drugs are a huge problem.
I lived on the streets in a much bigger town/city when I was a very young, I started out at around 9 yrs old sleeping on the streets,I grew up stealing so I could eat, did 10 years locked up before I was 22, so I know a bit about the rough life, and what happens to teens who have no parent control.
so don't try to tell me I am wrong, I have some of the most respectable and well behaved kids around, hell we had a bus driver tell my wife,"you have the best kids I ever had on my bus" I know exactly what I am doing when it comes to my kids.
I don't lie to them about anything, and if there is something to mature for them to know, I tell them when they are older I will explain, you would be surprised at how amazing my kids are.
btw I have 6... a 16 yr old Girl, a 13 yr old girl, a 12 yr old girl, 11 yr old boy, 7 yr old girl,4 yr old boy.
yes all from the same woman, My wife of 17 years.
-
That sounds, neurotic. I'm sorry, but that makes you sound like a control freak- I could see if you were living in some sort of horrid situation with drugs being found everywhere and all that jazz. It doesn't seem to be that way though; it seems to me that you are warping these kids by having them live in a police state. If you force yourself into every facet of their existence, then they will have issues later on.
IMHO, its all about teaching your kids to make the right decision,to correct them when YOU believe that they are going to do something wrong, to step in when you think that what they are doing is could get injured or killed. Its not about being big brother, its about helping them steer their lives to make adult decisions. I dont disagree with you Penguin, acting like big brother and controling every aspect of their lives is wrong, but so is falling asleep at the wheel as a parent.
Regarding the parents allowing her to do this , Im of the mind that i have no knowledge of the situation other than what the media decides to sensationalize, and ultimatly who the heck am I to tell someone else how to raise their kids? What i do know is how to raise mine,and how to steer them in the direction to adulthood, and thats enough for me.
<S>
Mbailey
-
it is not, but you can make it really dangerous if you want.
You never know what set of events can shut the lights out of your life. It makes every moment more precious and makes you not forget your are not eternal and invincible. It makes it obvious that you must allow some flexibility. Otherwise, you cannot live, even when alive and wealthy. Somewhere along the road the line must be drawn, but lest it be not to allow only one side a degree of freedom.
-
Who here has kids that would let them drive solo at 16 but not sail solo at 17?
-
Who here has kids that would let them drive solo at 16 but not sail solo at 17?
little different when its around the world.
-
I sail a sunfish, now thats some hard work. :old:
10yr olds can sail a Sunfish, pretty much like a laser. Flip it over and you can reride it. Yeah comparing a 7ft. boat in the river, or lake. To a 40ft. sailboat in 30ft. seas, in the middle of the indean ocean. :rolleyes: Glad she's been found ok. Sad story turned good. Iv'e heard theres a lot of Sailing Expertens in Lincohn, Nebraska. :D
-
That sounds, neurotic. I'm sorry, but that makes you sound like a control freak- I could see if you were living in some sort of horrid situation with drugs being found everywhere and all that jazz. It doesn't seem to be that way though; it seems to me that you are warping these kids by having them live in a police state. If you force yourself into every facet of their existence, then they will have issues later on.
Here's a good example:
Parent invades every inch of kid's life->
Kid sees parent as overbearing/raider (as in raiding everything the child has to think about)->
Kid has three options->
1.)Accept it and move on with no problems
2.)Take offence and rebel
3.)See option 1 but with problems such as neuroticism, vicarious existence (goes to other control extreme), and does everything that you said no to
Anecdotally, the looming presence of a "big brother" watching everything you do is just creepy- where does it all end? If you fear not rifling through a MySpace or Facebook, a secret keylogger shouldn't be a stretch. Or perhaps a screen-capture bot that will constantly stream their browsing? Or how about a(some) camera(s) in their room to watch what they do in there? Heck, even a door shouldn't be allowed!
To conclude my point, all things in moderation- Privacy, just like Risk, is a binary function or a zero-sum game, both parties can benefit from doing things in degrees.
-Penguin
Pretty much wrong on all accounts friend . I have 4 kids . My 2 girls 'i was a part of their life to the Nth degree . The oldest is a microbiologist , studies microbial life forms and under sea vents where life is based on heat not light . I can barely understand anything she says about her work . My next is in her second year of college both are well adjusted 20 somethings with goals stable social life's and the biggest trouble either ever saw was curfew violations returning from baby sitting jobs while living on Army posts . Both of them faced routine snoop jobs into their rooms unscheduled inspection of PC's and I had to meet their friends before they could associate with them . I read what I wanted/needed to . I checked their work when they spent the night away from home . I also tried to meet the friends parents , if I was put off in any way about it . They could not associate with them . When I was told they would be somewhere . I did spot checks . They never knew when it would happen . The only people who ever made noise in protest were their friends who's parents didn't keep an eye on them . My son has lived with is mother since we divorced when he was 6 . He is now 16 and is going to juvenile court for burglary next month . He lost an entire years credits because of attendance this year . His case worker came over to meet me the other day . He told me he would recommend that my son move in with me if I could give him a plan to keep my son in school next year . He wanted an answer 2 weeks before the hearing . My son will be made a ward of the court no matter what . He lies steals and uses drugs .I told the case worker I could guarantee he would miss no more then 2 days due to skipping until he graduates if he lives with me . Because the first time it happens , I will go to school every day with him , until he proves he can go with out me . Once I feel he can be trusted because he can't take the embarrassment anymore . I will give him one chance to do it . If he fails . He will have me with him every school day until he graduates . My wife followed your philosophy plus she went wild after we divorced . He was unsupervised WAY too much ! The best of kids make bad decisions if unsupervised , a 16 yo does not think like an adult . They make decisions with out regard to long term results . The level of guidance ink shows his kids is not neurosis , it is love . Trust me what he does is more work and much harder to do then the other way is . He is a man that takes responsibility for his actions . He is merely protecting the ones he loves . He isn't looking for a village to do it for him . I imagine he doesn't trust the village to have the love and concern for his kids that he does . Far too many villages contain a disproportionate number of village idiots for a man like inks taste . BTW if I may ask how old are you ? Do you have any kids of your own ?
-
Pretty much wrong on all accounts friend . I have 4 kids . My 2 girls 'i was a part of their life to the Nth degree . The oldest is a microbiologist , studies microbial life forms and under sea vents where life is based on heat not light . I can barely understand anything she says about her work . My next is in her second year of college both are well adjusted 20 somethings with goals stable social life's and the biggest trouble either ever saw was curfew violations returning from baby sitting jobs while living on Army posts . Both of them faced routine snoop jobs into their rooms unscheduled inspection of PC's and I had to meet their friends before they could associate with them . I read what I wanted/needed to . I checked their work when they spent the night away from home . I also tried to meet the friends parents , if I was put off in any way about it . They could not associate with them . When I was told they would be somewhere . I did spot checks . They never knew when it would happen . The only people who ever made noise in protest were their friends who's parents didn't keep an eye on them . My son has lived with is mother since we divorced when he was 6 . He is now 16 and is going to juvenile court for burglary next month . He lost an entire years credits because of attendance this year . His case worker came over to meet me the other day . He told me he would recommend that my son move in with me if I could give him a plan to keep my son in school next year . He wanted an answer 2 weeks before the hearing . My son will be made a ward of the court no matter what . He lies steals and uses drugs .I told the case worker I could guarantee he would miss no more then 2 days due to skipping until he graduates if he lives with me . Because the first time it happens , I will go to school every day with him , until he proves he can go with out me . Once I feel he can be trusted because he can't take the embarrassment anymore . I will give him one chance to do it . If he fails . He will have me with him every school day until he graduates . My wife followed your philosophy plus she went wild after we divorced . He was unsupervised WAY too much ! The best of kids make bad decisions if unsupervised , a 16 yo does not think like an adult . They make decisions with out regard to long term results . The level of guidance ink shows his kids is not neurosis , it is love . Trust me what he does is more work and much harder to do then the other way is . He is a man that takes responsibility for his actions . He is merely protecting the ones he loves . He isn't looking for a village to do it for him . I imagine he doesn't trust the village to have the love and concern for his kids that he does . Far too many villages contain a disproportionate number of village idiots for a man like inks taste . BTW if I may ask how old are you ? Do you have any kids of your own ?
:cry
I truly hope things work out for your boy :aok
-
Sailng - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQeqmNbA2Hs&feature=related :D
Depends on the kid.... one size does not fit all.
Almost 50 years old with 3 kids. girl 30, boy 27, boy 21, 4 grandchildren. Its all about choices... even people from the roughest of backgrounds are taught right from wrong... good from evil.... right from the very beginning of their lives. You love your kids, show them the path, but in the end it is they who decide what and who they want to be. Of course I should add IMHO.
:salute
-
I'm confused how keeping your kids straight growing up in a rough area - whilst praiseworthy - qualifies you to judge whether a 16 year old is able to sail around the world. Particularly given - and I'm going out on a limb here - I assume the majority of you have little or no experience of sailing on which to make a judgment. 'Monday Morning Quarterbacks' comes to mind.
Seeing as how we're throwing opinions out though, some of you sound like overbearing parents from hell. You are, of course, entitled to raise your kids in whatever way you see fit, but thank God you weren't my parents.
-
Every kid is different, but like these boards, it is often the loudest that can shape the communities opionion on a subject. I don't know the girl and I can't make a judgment on her or her parents decision. However, in this situation, it sounds like there was only so much this girl had control over and has done everything she is suppose to do when this happens.
Either way, I highly doubt this incident will scare her away from sailing and I bet we'll be hearing about her completed journey in the months or years ahead. She knows the risk, especially after this incident, and she's got an interesting life ahead of her.
-
Why do people climb mountains?
Because to to 'some' people it seems the simplest way to see what is on the other side?
-
The simple fact she decided to sail in the southern oceans reveals neither her nor her parents are competent. We're well into winter, and have had a series of nasty storms up off Antarctica for the last couple of months.
I hope the SAR operation bills the parents to recover costs tbh.
-
Yeah, it's not like people haven't been braving storms in the Southern Ocean for the last 500 years or anything. :rolleyes:
-
And fyi, there is no way in hell a 16 year old has enough experience to do a solo trip around the world.
how would u know, do you know her? do you know her skill levels? or are you just sterotyping 16 yr olds because of the fact that they are 16?
if you have skill you have it, it doesnt matter what your age is and whatever it is in. Or else you wouldnt have a 12 year old (i believe) qualified for the PGA tour, or a 16 year old being drafted into the major leagues. Or how about the kids that is only 15 i think who just climbed the top of everest and called his mom?
also, this girl has been sailing since she was born. this is a sailing family. Her brother, holds the record currently for youngest solo when he was 17. She is only a year younger and is trying to beat him. Obviously both children and parents know what they are doing since you just dont get 2 random children from the same family going around the world on no experience.
-
She is only a year younger and is trying to beat him.
Bingo.
-
Both of them faced routine snoop jobs into their rooms unscheduled inspection of PC's and I had to meet their friends before they could associate with them . I read what I wanted/needed to . I checked their work when they spent the night away from home . I also tried to meet the friends parents , if I was put off in any way about it . They could not associate with them .
so you chose ethnic discrimination based on sterotypes?
My son has lived with is mother since we divorced when he was 6 . He is now 16 and is going to juvenile court for burglary next month . He lost an entire years credits because of attendance this year . His case worker came over to meet me the other day . He told me he would recommend that my son move in with me if I could give him a plan to keep my son in school next year . He wanted an answer 2 weeks before the hearing . My son will be made a ward of the court no matter what . He lies steals and uses drugs .I told the case worker I could guarantee he would miss no more then 2 days due to skipping until he graduates if he lives with me . Because the first time it happens , I will go to school every day with him , until he proves he can go with out me . Once I feel he can be trusted because he can't take the embarrassment anymore . I will give him one chance to do it . If he fails . He will have me with him every school day until he graduates . My wife followed your philosophy plus she went wild after we divorced . He was unsupervised WAY too much ! The best of kids make bad decisions if unsupervised , a 16 yo does not think like an adult . They make decisions with out regard to long term results . The level of guidance ink shows his kids is not neurosis , it is love .
ever think that your son had to go through alot more than what your girls did? he was 6 years old whn you split, they, by the sound of your first paragraph were in HS already and mature. you going through their computers doesnt do anything, it just means they hide it better. By the sound of it, you werent in your sons life after the split, did you ever think that was a part of it?
Its funny how i remember being 16 and yet never getting into trouble and doing what was right when my parents did nothing like what you did.
-
Bingo.
so you still dont have a valid point. did you ever think she has more talent then him and was able to pick it up easier than him?
take this for instance, it takes a normal American child 13 years to get through Schooling plus another 4-8 for college. But yet there are 10 year olds who have already graduated college? did age make a difference then?
or now lets talk about driving as it requires alot of mental thinking and some skills like sailing does.
whats the difference between someone who can get their permit at 15 and a child who has to wait till 16? if there was any statistical number that showed the kids who got it at 15 were less safe than kids at 16, the government wouldnt allow them to get it that young especially when its all about teen driving in schools nowadays.
-
so you still dont have a valid point. did you ever think she has more talent then him and was able to pick it up easier than him?
take this for instance, it takes a normal American child 13 years to get through Schooling plus another 4-8 for college. But yet there are 10 year olds who have already graduated college? did age make a difference then?
or now lets talk about driving as it requires alot of mental thinking and some skills like sailing does.
whats the difference between someone who can get their permit at 15 and a child who has to wait till 16? if there was any statistical number that showed the kids who got it at 15 were less safe than kids at 16, the government wouldnt allow them to get it that young especially when its all about teen driving in schools nowadays.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk
there is risk in everything. Name one thing that doesnt have risk in it?
-
yes you can!!! until they are adults they are under YOUR supervision, I will be dead before I let my kids do the things "they want"
it's called good parenting, the parenting of today is straight up horrible they let the kids run the streets do and say whatever they want, it's sad really, very few kids now a days respect there parents, they think they have "privacy" :rofl
NOT in my house, I go through my kids FaceBook and Myspace and anything else that I feel I should, I make them delete friends that say bad crap or leave sexual comments. heck I regret even letting them have a Facebook/myspace.
ANNND, when they get older, they're only going to act wild and crazy whenever they're given the chance. :rolleyes: :lol
-
there is risk in everything. Name one thing that doesnt have risk in it?
That's like saying, "Everything costs money so I might as well buy whatever I want".
-
Some kids need parents in their lives to the nth degree and others don't, I wouldn't recommend applying the same parenting strategy to every personality.
-
so you chose ethnic discrimination based on sterotypes?
ever think that your son had to go through alot more than what your girls did? he was 6 years old whn you split, they, by the sound of your first paragraph were in HS already and mature. you going through their computers doesnt do anything, it just means they hide it better. By the sound of it, you werent in your sons life after the split, did you ever think that was a part of it?
Its funny how i remember being 16 and yet never getting into trouble and doing what was right when my parents did nothing like what you did.
Ethnic discrimination ? Where do you get that ? My oldest is from another woman . When we split up there was no attempt to limit my contact . She spent as much time with me as her mother . Her mother had same philosophy I have about children rearing . As for "did I ever think" about what my son went through . Do you "think" that I could not have ? Do you think I still don't ? Do you think I don't have a feeling of guilt about my absence in his life ? Take a look at how family law works in this country bud . It does not matter how many times you file to have visitation orders obeyed . If the custodial parent does not bring the child to you or refuses to allow you to take them . Your only recourse is to file another parenting time enforcement order with the court . The judge will threaten contempt of court jail time . The next hearing will be in front of a different judge ,and she will be given another "last" chance . Then she will be in front of a judge for the second time and get a whoping 24 hours in county jail . That she will only spend a small fraction of that time actually in jail do to over crowding . I don't know how you arrived at high school for my middle daughter since she is in her 2nd year of college . Try middle school instead . Her big advantage was she was allowed to have a say where she lived . She was also allowed to be a child . She was not required at age 11 to be a parent to half sister infant . You are not the only one glad I am not your parent . Your complete lack of respect for people . You also lack knowledge of the challenges faced by parents today . I will agree no two children are the same . My first child did not have the same level of supervision and intrusion into her life my second daughter did . She had two parents that worked together even when split up . That put aside differences and did what was best for their child . My second child did not have that . She had some challenges to face . Challenges where the problem was discovered early . Problems that did not reach the level of concern that requires court intervention in her life . How do you think they were discovered . No it wasn't the new age parenting fairy granting me a wish . It was an old school parenting technique . I would like to ask you how old you are ? How many kids do you have ?
Ink thanks for the concern . He won't need luck he has an overbearing parent who has no knowledge of how to successfully raise a child who will not quit . Who doesn't give a dam what people who say it is neurotic to raise kids with out philosophy . The same people that a responsible for an entire generation of under achieving ,disrespectful , slovenly , over medicated children we see today . The ones who's children are getting sentences in adult courts ranging from a few years to life with out . My idea for going to school every day with my son is not my own . It was my mothers approach with my sister . When dad retired we went to our first open campus school . My sister decided after lunch classes were not important . After watching my mother go to class every day for 9 weeks , and what she did to bring attention to it . Made me decide to never try to skip myself . My sister was not the only one that wanted to die the first day mom walked into the cafeteria ,with a tray and said in a loud voice "where do the popular girls sit that where I want to be " ? Guess you could say I went to my own scared straight program . ROFL . I just picked up a little 4 wheel drive Toyota to be the carrot to off set the stick that he will be seeing shortly . For those of you out there who are going to say , I am abusive to even suggest a stick . It is not a real one . He is beyond the age where spanking would do any good . The stick he will face will be responsibility for his actions , and accountability to me for them . He must also know that actions not only carry consequences , they carry rewards as well .
-
ANNND, when they get older, they're only going to act wild and crazy whenever they're given the chance. :rolleyes: :lol
THEN THEY WILL BE ADULTS TO DO WHAT THEY WANT, BUT THEY WILL HAVE FULL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT IS IN THIS WORLD AND WHAT IT TAKES TO BE AN ADULT, BESIDES A BIT OF PARTING IS GOOD FOR YA :aok
Ink thanks for the concern . He won't need luck he has an overbearing parent who has no knowledge of how to successfully raise a child who will not quit . Who doesn't give a dam what people who say it is neurotic to raise kids with out philosophy . The same people that a responsible for an entire generation of under achieving ,disrespectful , slovenly , over medicated children we see today[/size] . The ones who's children are getting sentences in adult courts ranging from a few years to life with out . My idea for going to school every day with my son is not my own . It was my mothers approach with my sister . When dad retired we went to our first open campus school . My sister decided after lunch classes were not important . After watching my mother go to class every day for 9 weeks , and what she did to bring attention to it . Made me decide to never try to skip myself . My sister was not the only one that wanted to die the first day mom walked into the cafeteria ,with a tray and said in a loud voice "where do the popular girls sit that where I want to be " ? Guess you could say I went to my own scared straight program . ROFL . I just picked up a little 4 wheel drive Toyota to be the carrot to off set the stick that he will be seeing shortly . For those of you out there who are going to say , I am abusive to even suggest a stick . It is not a real one . He is beyond the age where spanking would do any good . The stick he will face will be responsibility for his actions , and accountability to me for them . He must also know that actions not only carry consequences , they carry rewards as well .
[/quote]
COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER :salute
-
also, this girl has been sailing since she was born. this is a sailing family. Her brother, holds the record currently for youngest solo when he was 17. She is only a year younger and is trying to beat him. Obviously both children and parents know what they are doing since you just dont get 2 random children from the same family going around the world on no experience.
and yet here she is, adrift and disabled in the middle of the southern ocean.
-
trying to break records, its human nature, but records with "youngest" driver, sailor and so on,
where is the stop? at 15y? or 10y? nobody knows, so this falls into the Darwin award category,
it could end up lucky but it is also possible to end fatal, is this all worth? dont ask me.
-
I dont have any problem with this young lady going for this adventure. She took all the precautions she could even though (as it turns out) the sea was a little more powerful than she expected. This is the kind of thing more young people need to do... not less. If society continues to cradle young people and protect them from any type of mishaps we will continue to have a greater and greater population of immature and inept individuals. Setting out on adventures to conquer the world are what makes adults adults and those that dont or consider it just too unsafe... well those are the sorts that just wont ever have lived life to its fullest. We dont need any more people unprepared for the consequences of their actions. We dont need inexperienced and overly nurtured brats rising to the top to tell us how wrong we are for taking risks. Risks are what makes life worth living. What ever happened to the spirit of adventure like that of Mallory and Irvine? Yes they are dead and they died attempting what many thought impossible. Today fewer and fewer things are impossible and so we should cheer those that still attempt to achieve their adventures. And yes if they succeed they deserve the rewards that are their due just as failure could very well bring due their death.
-
Just heard on the news. They found her alive. This is one very lucky young lady.
-
and yet here she is, adrift and disabled in the middle of the southern ocean.
Meh, the Australian Navy is forever rescuing racers out of the Southern Ocean...sometimes more than once during the annual Vendee Globe solo round the world race. If needing rescue excluded participation based on age, sex , experience or vessel - then NO ONE would ever be crossing that stretch of water
Tronsky
-
I dont have any problem with this young lady going for this adventure. She took all the precautions she could even though (as it turns out) the sea was a little more powerful than she expected. This is the kind of thing more young people need to do... not less. If society continues to cradle young people and protect them from any type of mishaps we will continue to have a greater and greater population of immature and inept individuals. Setting out on adventures to conquer the world are what makes adults adults and those that dont or consider it just too unsafe... well those are the sorts that just wont ever have lived life to its fullest. We dont need any more people unprepared for the consequences of their actions. We dont need inexperienced and overly nurtured brats rising to the top to tell us how wrong we are for taking risks. Risks are what makes life worth living. What ever happened to the spirit of adventure like that of Mallory and Irvine? Yes they are dead and they died attempting what many thought impossible. Today fewer and fewer things are impossible and so we should cheer those that still attempt to achieve their adventures. And yes if they succeed they deserve the rewards that are their due just as failure could very well bring due their death.
I agree.
From my own personal standpoint as a parent I'd be worried only because as a parent we always worry about kids. As a result we tend ot try to coddle and "protect" kids too much these days. I admit to being guilty to some small extent of that myself. But with society as a whole. We have reached the point of almost absurdity to the point of wrapping kids in bubble wrap before letting them go outside almost doesnt seem outside the realm of future possibility
But,as a person I see no reason why she shouldn't do it provided she had the skills to do so. which she obviously had or she never would have made it as far as she did.
As far as the sea being more powerful then she expected. Who is to say that an adult with decades worth of experience wouldn't have had the same problems or had the same thing happen to them?
Happens all the time. And nothing she experienced or what ended up happening is anything unique. Its happened before to far more experienced sailors.
As I mentioned before. she obviously has the skillset to have accomplished her goal or she never would have made it as far or as long as she has.
And as a further testimony to her skills. She's survived, Not only survived buut has done so n a cripppled boat and is now safe on a french fishing vessel.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article7148816.ece
Well at least as safe as she can be when in the presence of the French.
But she's alive anyway :)
-
Just heard on the news. They found her alive. This is one very lucky young lady.
Actually they found her alive almost two days ago. The problem was in getting to her because she was so far out.
-
Ethnic discrimination ? Where do you get that ?
that’s what you did when you made your choice on what friends she could hang out with based on your opinion...
I would like to ask you how old you are ? How many kids do you have ?
early adult and none. But i had to grow into the real world at age 12 when my grandma never recovered from a knee surgery. She never fully came out of the anesthesia. It was four years of ups and downs with her until her death in my ninth grade. So that was all of middle school and first year of high school i had to help take care of her with my mom because she pretty much couldn’t do anything on her own anymore. I even moved in with her.
So I know what its like to be a parent without actually having been one. I had to go through a hell of a lot more than any other kid my age did which matured me faster than the rest.
by no means am i saying your a bad father, but what i will say is that your parenting practices doesn’t make you a good one.
-
Tragedies usually happen when you have a child trying to break records to dangerous things, like the little girl who tried to be the youngest person to fly, she was 7yrs old and her, her father, & the flight instructor died when she crashed the plane, as a parent you just have to ask yourself, is he/she doing this worth the risk of something going wrong, and with these type of activities when something goes wrong people lose their lives.
-
I'm confused how keeping your kids straight growing up in a rough area - whilst praiseworthy - qualifies you to judge whether a 16 year old is able to sail around the world. Particularly given - and I'm going out on a limb here - I assume the majority of you have little or no experience of sailing on which to make a judgment. 'Monday Morning Quarterbacks' comes to mind.
Seeing as how we're throwing opinions out though, some of you sound like overbearing parents from hell. You are, of course, entitled to raise your kids in whatever way you see fit, but thank God you weren't my parents.
I sail almost every weekend in my sunfish, and with my friends once or twice a month in his hobie cat.
Also I sail in lakes where the win direction changes, which is much more difficult than bay or even open water sailing where the wind direction is (for the most part) the same.
-
Not having read the article, I'm going our on a limb and say they're from CA
I'm psychic!
French fishing boat rescues stranded Calif. teen
....Zac Sunderland, her brother, held the record for a little more than a month last year until Briton Mike Perham completed his own journey. The record changed hands again last month, when 16-year-old Australian Jessica Watson completed her own around-the-world voyage....
...Veteran sailors questioned the wisdom of sending a teenager off alone in a small boat, knowing it would be tossed about for 30 or more hours at a time by the giant waves that rake the Southern Hemisphere's oceans this time of year.
-
lol obviously you are oblivious to the fact that in the very small town I live in, there are 16 and 17 year old heroin junkies, kids in 7th grade getting pregnant, ecstasy is rampant, drugs are a huge problem.
I lived on the streets in a much bigger town/city when I was a very young, I started out at around 9 yrs old sleeping on the streets,I grew up stealing so I could eat, did 10 years locked up before I was 22, so I know a bit about the rough life, and what happens to teens who have no parent control.
so don't try to tell me I am wrong, I have some of the most respectable and well behaved kids around, hell we had a bus driver tell my wife,"you have the best kids I ever had on my bus" I know exactly what I am doing when it comes to my kids.
I don't lie to them about anything, and if there is something to mature for them to know, I tell them when they are older I will explain, you would be surprised at how amazing my kids are.
btw I have 6... a 16 yr old Girl, a 13 yr old girl, a 12 yr old girl, 11 yr old boy, 7 yr old girl,4 yr old boy.
yes all from the same woman, My wife of 17 years.
Read the disclaimer at the top of my arguement- it doesn't apply if you are in a rough neighbourhood. Next, you ignored my point about control not being a binary function- saying that no parent control= chaos (a statement that I agree with, so don't take it the wrong way).
Ignorance is bliss I suppose, you just downplay major points of mine to assume the moral highground- typical.
-Penguin
-
I sail almost every weekend in my sunfish, and with my friends once or twice a month in his hobie cat.
Also I sail in lakes where the win direction changes, which is much more difficult than bay or even open water sailing where the wind direction is (for the most part) the same.
Winds always change on the bay daily plus tides, currents, other boats, and storms. You just keep that toy sailboat on the lake where it belongs. :rolleyes:
Lake meet real bay!
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/twstrchk/ebaybridge1.jpg)
-
I sail almost every weekend in my sunfish, and with my friends once or twice a month in his hobie cat.
Also I sail in lakes where the win direction changes, which is much more difficult than bay or even open water sailing where the wind direction is (for the most part) the same.
The best sailors in the world all learned in dingies - they are great because any mistakes have immediate effects ranging from you'll be much slower than everyone else to you're taking a swim, whereas in yachts you can sail poorly and in light conditions you'll never know.
That said, if you think there will be no wind changes in coastal or offshore sailing, I strongly suggest you stick to that lake of yours.
-
I sailed in San fransisco bay in a sunfish, and go down to rockport every summer. As I said, for the most part the wind direction is the same, it changes depending on the time and I didn't mention the currents and tides. crazyivan, it's not a "toy" sailboat, I sail in reggattas, and i've got a racing sail and an extended centerboard. I'm 16, don't expect a J26 or a Catalina, I'm proud of my boat, but haters gonna hate.
Give me a 42 foot boat and 5000 dollars of computers and navigation equipment I'll sail around the world too.
Honestly I shouldn't post on this board and not expect to get flamed. What sailing experience did you have when you were 16?
-
She stopped because she was rolled and lost her rig Tupac.
-
She stopped because she was rolled and lost her rig Tupac.
oh, I thought her navigation equipment malfunctioned in bad weather. My bad
-
Honestly, at the beginning i was for her sailing around the world, however the more i think about it the more im questioning the judgement of the parents. Let me name a few things here, 30-40 foot swells in a 42 foot boat, Ice, Pirates (Off the coast of africa) And being 12-30 hours from a rescue boat the majority of the time. If i jibed in my sunfish and got KOed by the boom swinging around (it rides low due to the larger sail) Id want help there ASAP. It says in the article that the rescue boats were 1 day away, (let me make a comparison here) How many parents would let their kids go on a drive through siberia that lasts 240 days with the nearest help being 1 day away? If she got knocked off the boat, even if she was in her survival suit she wouldnt last a day.
On a side note, lake sailing is just as "Real" as bay sailing. Id reccomend trying it if you dont think so, youre in for a suprise.
-
I. What sailing experience did you have when you were 16?
Started around 11yrsold optimist. Then lasers, kinda like a sunfish. Around 16 i crewed in penguins at local regattas. At that age , summertime was working on workboat/crab boat. Curently just have a Boston Whaler just to cruz around in and drink beers. Just got a kayak too but wont see me in the bay with that hehe. Sailing is a good hobby growing up salute have fun with it.
-
Royal Yachting Association Advanced Level Instructor.
At 16 I was captain of my school team. At 18 I was an instructor and doing delivery cruises from Scotland to Norway, France and the Mediteranean via the Bay of Biscay. I've sailed boats varying in size from 12 foot Toppers all the way up to Volvo 60's. I've sailed on man-made lakes, sea lochs, the North Sea in Force 7 gales, the Irish Sea, Carribean, Mediteranean, Atlantic and Pacific.
Sailing your Sunfish is great - keep it up and have fun with it. But even you have to know that it tells you very little about what's involved in circumnavigating the globe.
-
Royal Yachting Association Advanced Level Instructor.
.
Sailing your Sunfish is great - keep it up and have fun with it. But even you have to know that it tells you very little about what's involved in circumnavigating the globe.
LOL, yeah in a regatta well storm was coming. I tried to ride my laser and rolled back the other way and the dagger board fell out. I turtled it, and was in the middle of the river clinging to boat thinking this is grand. I earned the bottoms up award that year at the yacht club. I have very little clue what she must've been thinking. I still think she has cajones.
-
THEN THEY WILL BE ADULTS TO DO WHAT THEY WANT, BUT THEY WILL HAVE FULL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT IS IN THIS WORLD AND WHAT IT TAKES TO BE AN ADULT, BESIDES A BIT OF PARTING IS GOOD FOR YA :aok
Ah, you may have a point, but the wildest kids I know are the ones whose parents always watch carefully over them. I know damn well the consequences of my actions if I do something bad, but I'm not completely confined to my parents' watchful eyes.
Ex. I can stay out as late as I want, but if I get in trouble, I can expect a beat down from my old man whenever I get home.
-
Wow.
I'm a fairly Nazi-esque parent. I do, in fact, have a keylogger on the computer that they use. It's not to catch them, per se. It is to catch some sick F, pervert so I can track him down and kill them if need be.
Teaching you children the difference between right and wrong and how to choose between the two is the most important thing in their life. The more you try to squeeze, the more slips through the fingers. Rather than be completely controlling tight up to the day they become 18, one has to start letting go, little by little. If you have done your job correctly, your kids will know how to make the right decision.
I'd have to disagree with the boating experience from birth to 5 years old meaning nothing. My family has owned boats all every kind for as long as I can research and I could swim before I could walk or talk. I think that this makes a load of difference.
I would prefer that my daughter try to sail the world, as opposed to, seeing if she could break the local record for number of father's for her illegitimate children, or booting heroin for that matter.
Others may disagree, but having a license and driving a vehicle, unsupervised, is a VERY dangerous responsibility. One can go pretty dar and find lots of trouble in a car with 2-3 hours of free time.
Where I would have exercised my parental powers of VETO, however were the time of year that she chose to leave and the lack of comms.
-
Others may disagree, but having a license and driving a vehicle, unsupervised, is a VERY dangerous responsibility. One can go pretty dar and find lots of trouble in a car with 2-3 hours of free time.
True, but fatality rate per 100 millions vehicle miles traveled is 1.25, whilst fatality rate (per 100 millions miles) at attempts to solo sailing circumnavigation is about 40.23.
That's ratio of 1:32 in favor of car driving.
-
True, but fatality rate per 100 millions vehicle miles traveled is 1.25, whilst fatality rate (per 100 millions miles) at attempts to solo sailing circumnavigation is about 40.23.
That's ratio of 1:32 in favor of car driving.
That belabors the obvious. Of course, it is more dangerous to sail.
That statistic is bunk in the analogy that you use. There are far less folks trying to circumnavigate the globe in a sailboat than there are 16 year-olds trying to drive. You can also travel much further in a vehicle in a given amount of time. Are your statistics for 16 year-olds in both categories?
In addition, out of the 100's of millions of attempts at circumnavigation by sailing used for this statistic, how many were 16?
Gotta do a little better than throw raw data at me to make it stick :)
-
That statistic is bunk in the analogy that you use. There are far less folks trying to circumnavigate the globe in a sailboat than there are 16 year-olds trying to drive. You can also travel much further in a vehicle in a given amount of time. Are your statistics for 16 year-olds in both categories?
It's not bunk, in fact, it's probably magnitudes lower than the actual population ratio is. Where did you find those values bighorn?
The entire car analogy is bunk anyways, as she is going to be driving in addition to the sailing risks.
-
That statistic is bunk in the analogy that you use. There are far less folks trying to circumnavigate the globe in a sailboat than there are 16 year-olds trying to drive.
No, it isn't bunk. It's per mile traveled. That's the fairest metric when comparing different modes of travel.
You can also travel much further in a vehicle in a given amount of time.
You can also travel much further in an airplane in a given amount of time. Yet, air travel is not less safe than car travel. In fact, it's much safer.
Are your statistics for 16 year-olds in both categories?
No, I couldn't go through trouble finding all the data for 16 years old, so its for all ages combined. But it still gives relatively valid safety comparison for two modes of travel.
In addition, out of the 100's of millions of attempts at circumnavigation by sailing used for this statistic, how many were 16?
So you (with no data to support your claim) are saying that 16 old sailors are less prone to fatal accidents than adult sailors?
Gotta do a little better than throw raw data at me to make it stick :)
Hah, don't you think that 'raw data' is a little better than no data at all? At least I use some data, you're just pulling it out of nothing. :neener:
All I'm saying is, all-you-pro-16-solo-sailing-around-the-globe-people-saying-it-isn't-any-less-dangerous-than-driving-a-car are wrong. Better argument is needed to support your claim (ie data).
Where did you find those values bighorn?
National Highway Safety Administration, World Sailing Speed Record Council, Adventure Stats, various articles found on the web.
Data for solo sailing globe circumnavigation isn't foolproof, but error margin isn't that big either that would considerably change the ratios.
-
I'm with ya bighorn. Nice stats, more effort that I put in that's for sure, hehe.
-
Started around 11yrsold optimist. Then lasers, kinda like a sunfish. Around 16 i crewed in penguins at local regattas. At that age , summertime was working on workboat/crab boat. Curently just have a Boston Whaler just to cruz around in and drink beers. Just got a kayak too but wont see me in the bay with that hehe. Sailing is a good hobby growing up salute have fun with it.
I started the same way, same age, in an optimist (3 years), but I'm not sure about the types of boats you're talking about. I only get a chance to sail when I go to Poland for the summer, and this year I'll be in Puck (pootsk) Poland, sailing on as I've been told, a "Zeta" boat.
I agree, sailing rocks!
-Penguin
-
I started the same way, same age, in an optimist (3 years), but I'm not sure about the types of boats you're talking about. I only get a chance to sail when I go to Poland for the summer, and this year I'll be in Puck (pootsk) Poland, sailing on as I've been told, a "Zeta" boat.
I agree, sailing rocks!
-Penguin
Optimist? You mean the floating bathtub?
I've sailed in one of those before, although I would prefer listening to the grass grow, or plucking nose hairs for that matter.
Nah optimists are fun little boats
-
I agree with the size description- but for a small boat, it handles itself in waves that are at least taller than the hull! Try doing that with a three-master! I learned another important lesson, the lower you keep your head, the more likely you are to keep it.
-Penguin
-
I agree with the size description- but for a small boat, it handles itself in waves that are at least taller than the hull! Try doing that with a three-master! I learned another important lesson, the lower you keep your head, the more likely you are to keep it.
-Penguin
I've suffered from cessna forehead and sunfish forehead - I wouldn't reccomend either one
-
Have you ever tried optimist-throat? Man, I didn't realize how stiff those hemp ropes are until they were really taut! I was doing a turn, and it felt like I got clotheslined by Rubber Band Man.
-Penguin
-
Wayfarer nose is no fun either. Particularaly when said nose belongs to a 12 year old in your charge.
-
It is all over the news, the father of the girl had cameras all over him and his family for weeks prior to her trip.
Why? Reality TV... the father signed a deal. That explains his willingness to let her go alone.
-
that’s what you did when you made your choice on what friends she could hang out with based on your opinion...
early adult and none. But i had to grow into the real world at age 12 when my grandma never recovered from a knee surgery. She never fully came out of the anesthesia. It was four years of ups and downs with her until her death in my ninth grade. So that was all of middle school and first year of high school i had to help take care of her with my mom because she pretty much couldn’t do anything on her own anymore. I even moved in with her.
So I know what its like to be a parent without actually having been one. I had to go through a hell of a lot more than any other kid my age did which matured me faster than the rest.
by no means am i saying your a bad father, but what i will say is that your parenting practices doesn’t make you a good one.
Had nothing to do with ethnicity . If I could not meet the parents of my children's friends . They could not hang out with those kids . No where do I mention ethnicity . Having been the victim of discrimination as a boy , I detest it .
Admirable that you took care of your grandmother , but you are comparing apples and steam locomotives . Children are actively preyed upon in all the places we have mentioned . Online and out of the home . Children hide evidence of planned and ongoing behavior in their rooms . Doubt you had the same considerations ,with an elderly woman who you would have had no right to interfere with anyways .
No what makes me a good or bad parent is the results achieved . If I raise criminal maladjusted burdens to society , or productive stable happy members of society . I think you represent society's thinking on child rearing these days . Since we have used truancy I will use it to illustrate a point I will make . Society today will tell me I can't shouldn't use my planned approach to stop my sons truancy . I know this because my neighbor is on the school board and he has told me to expect the school administration to deny me permission to do it . He has also done a straw vote on wether the school board will over rule it , I will win . Now this same society that won't allow me the only remedy that will work , will also take me to criminal court if I fail to make my son go to school .This is a new law in my state in response to the crimes truant children are committing , both violent and property crimes . To me a clear example of society concerned about the results of a failed approach to child rearing , not a concern about the cause of it .It also says to me we will hold you responsible for things we will deny you the ability to change .The results of the new age approach to child raising has failed to a large degree . It is time to examine the approach and quit making criminals out of both victims of it . The parent and the child . No I will stick to my old school approach that works instead of the new age approach that fails .
-
All I'm saying is, all-you-pro-16-solo-sailing-around-the-globe-people-saying-it-isn't-any-less-dangerous-than-driving-a-car are wrong. Better argument is needed to support your claim (ie data).
There is a big difference between giving an inexperienced driver the keys to a 1992 Taurus GL and a 1992 Taurus SHO. I think if we're going to drag in statistics, we'll need them much more detailed than any of us are likely to bother to get (understandably).
My point is that parents routinely either buy their kids, or let their kids buy, high performance sports vehicles, and those kids routinely kill themselves, their passengers, and other motorists with them. I believe half a dozen kids from my town alone have died in just the past 4-5 years because of this.
I will grant that a solo sailor could endanger the lives of the coast guard, but that's a little different than slamming into an unassuming motorist just driving home.
Again, I'd much rather those parents sent their kids sailing.
-
There is a big difference between giving an inexperienced driver the keys to a 1992 Taurus GL and a 1992 Taurus SHO. I think if we're going to drag in statistics, we'll need them much more detailed than any of us are likely to bother to get (understandably).
My point is that parents routinely either buy their kids, or let their kids buy, high performance sports vehicles, and those kids routinely kill themselves, their passengers, and other motorists with them. I believe half a dozen kids from my town alone have died in just the past 4-5 years because of this.
I will grant that a solo sailor could endanger the lives of the coast guard, but that's a little different than slamming into an unassuming motorist just driving home.
Again, I'd much rather those parents sent their kids sailing.
It's not an either or situation. They're going to be driving also...
-
It's not an either or situation. They're going to be driving also...
Right, but, again, what they are driving makes a BIG difference.
Would you rather have a two week driver behind the wheels of a WRX, or a Tempo?
-
Would you rather have a two week driver behind the wheels of a WRX, or a Tempo?
Neither,
(http://mkn.co.uk/mime/toy/rattles/jumbocar.jpg)
-
There is a big difference between giving an inexperienced driver the keys to a 1992 Taurus GL and a 1992 Taurus SHO. I think if we're going to drag in statistics, we'll need them much more detailed than any of us are likely to bother to get (understandably).
My point is that parents routinely either buy their kids, or let their kids buy, high performance sports vehicles, and those kids routinely kill themselves, their passengers, and other motorists with them. I believe half a dozen kids from my town alone have died in just the past 4-5 years because of this.
Are you saying that high performance cars are more dangerous? Or that people who drive high performance cars are more prone to accidents?
I will grant that a solo sailor could endanger the lives of the coast guard, but that's a little different than slamming into an unassuming motorist just driving home.
As for the young drivers stats. True, they are 4 times more likely to cause accident (including non fatal) per mile driven than the rest of the drivers.
But when it comes to fatalities, they're just 1.2 times more likely to die in car accident then any other age group.
I don't have numbers for solo sailing circumnavigating globe treens, but let's assume they're as save as any other sailor, and we'll adjust number for young drivers stats.
Per 100 millions miles driven we correct fatality rate from 1.25 to 1.5 for young car drivers and we leave fatality rate for solo sailors as it is, 40.23.
Now the ratio is 1:27 in favor of car driving (instead of 1:32)
Again, I'd much rather those parents sent their kids sailing.
Nothing wrong with sailing. Sailing solo around the world is another matter and is extremely dangerous.
Waaaaaay more dangerous than driving a car. No matter how much you folk wanna believe otherwise.
-
Right, but, again, what they are driving makes a BIG difference.
Why?
-
Are you saying that high performance cars are more dangerous? Or that people who drive high performance cars are more prone to accidents?
I'm saying a high-performance anything tends to require experience to operate efficiently and safely. That goes for anything from fighter jets to fishing rods.
I've also noticed that fatal teen car crashes tend to make the papers, and in situations where the teen was at fault, they tend to be in very fast cars that they let get away from them.
This is just what I've noticed in my area, and maybe it's not the same as yours. My area is wealthy, and perhaps this skews my perception.
Nothing wrong with sailing. Sailing solo around the world is another matter and is extremely dangerous.
Waaaaaay more dangerous than driving a car. No matter how much you folk wanna believe otherwise.
But it's not more dangerous to me, or to people I love, than sending them onto public road in a vehicle they are not prepared to handle.
Solo sailing around the world is the same as mountain climbing. It might be dangerous to the person sailing or climbing that mountain, and it might bring danger to the rescue workers who have voluntarily put themselves in a dangerous profession, but I can't conceive that it's more dangerous to third party citizens innocently going about their day.
My point is not to say "she'll be fine," but to say it's interesting that there's an awful lot of hooplah going about over this girl's parents allowing her to take risks with her own life, yet every day a parent tosses their very inexperienced drivers the keys to some vehicle that can very quickly get away from them, thus risking the lives of others, and no one gives it a second thought. It's odd to me.
-
I'm saying a high-performance anything tends to require experience to operate efficiently and safely. That goes for anything from fighter jets to fishing rods.
I've also noticed that fatal teen car crashes tend to make the papers, and in situations where the teen was at fault, they tend to be in very fast cars that they let get away from them.
This is just what I've noticed in my area, and maybe it's not the same as yours. My area is wealthy, and perhaps this skews my perception.
But it's not more dangerous to me, or to people I love, than sending them onto public road in a vehicle they are not prepared to handle.
Again, you're correct, it's your perception. Unfortunately your perception does not corresponds with reality.
Media won't change reality either. It'll just skew your perception.
Wealth won't change the fatality rate among young drivers. It may however change the fatality rate among young solo-around-the-world-sailors (because that's what needed to afford such an undertaking, wealth).
Solo sailing around the world is the same as mountain climbing. It might be dangerous to the person sailing or climbing that mountain, and it might bring danger to the rescue workers who have voluntarily put themselves in a dangerous profession, but I can't conceive that it's more dangerous to third party citizens innocently going about their day.
Did you read about that 13 year old climbing Mount Everest? Are you aware that fatality rate in past decade was 4% among those who attempted to climb it? That's for every 25 climbers one dies.
How is that not "more dangerous to third party citizens innocently going about their day"?
My point is not to say "she'll be fine," but to say it's interesting that there's an awful lot of hooplah going about over this girl's parents allowing her to take risks with her own life, yet every day a parent tosses their very inexperienced drivers the keys to some vehicle that can very quickly get away from them, thus risking the lives of others, and no one gives it a second thought. It's odd to me.
It's no odd. Everyday activities are for the most part necessary. You have to go to school, work. You do what you got to do. Simple as that.
Sailing around the world or climbing Mount Everest are optional though.
-
Again, you're correct, it's your perception. Unfortunately your perception does not corresponds with reality.
Media won't change reality either. It'll just skew your perception.
Wealth won't change the fatality rate among young drivers. It may however change the fatality rate among young solo-around-the-world-sailors (because that's what needed to afford such an undertaking, wealth).
I could get into this more, but you're not going to accept first-hand experience, and you shouldn't. I on the other hand, will rely on this when it's time to raise my own little monsters.
I do wonder if the "fatality rate among young drivers" includes their passengers and the people they strike. From the title, it doesn't seem like it.
Did you read about that 13 year old climbing Mount Everest? Are you aware that fatality rate in past decade was 4% among those who attempted to climb it? That's for every 25 climbers one dies.
How is that not "more dangerous to third party citizens innocently going about their day"?
I've heard of it, but did not read about it, so please fill me in... Have they installed sidewalks full of pedestrians and interstates on Everest these days? :D Because if they haven't, I'm not so sure we're using the same definition of "third party citizens." I'm talking about people on their way to the grocery store.
It's no odd. Everyday activities are for the most part necessary. You have to go to school, work. You do what you got to do. Simple as that.
Sailing around the world or climbing Mount Everest are optional though.
Buying your newly-licensed kid a sports car is most certainly optional. They can do what they've got to do in something a little less quirky until they get the hang of things. I contend it is more irresponsible for a parent to buy their teen a sports car than to let them chase a dangerous (to themselves) dream.
I don't see anything inherently "wrong" with letting this girl try to circumnavigate... Not to say that I would allow it. I won't know if I would until later.
-
Buying your newly-licensed kid a sports car is most certainly optional.
You have to explain to me a relevance of a sports car in this discussion.
In all the fatality stats, sports cars are included.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure, if we exclude all the other cars and keep stats for sports cars only, comparison of odds among driving a sports car and sailing solo circumnavigating the Earth, will be favorable to sports car.
Lets look at the car lots of young people (teenagers) drive. Honda Civic.
In 70s when first generation of Honda Civic was sold in US, the smallest engine had output of about 50hp.
Today it has 140hp. Performance wise, it's equal with many entry level performance cars of the 70s.
Yet somehow today's teens are driving safer than '70s teens.
As such, can we really say that performance of the car is responsible for unsafe driving? Or is it rather lack of experience?
I contend it is more irresponsible for a parent to buy their teen a sports car than to let them chase a dangerous (to themselves) dream.
Why? Why is something which is safer and affordable suddenly more irresponsible? Please, explain that to me.
And what if sport car is their dream?
Aren't those type of cars a dream to more teenagers than it is some other dangerous activity like climbing Mount Everest or sailing solo around the globe?
-
Getting a bit off topic here, but my first car was a Fiat Uno with a 1 liter engine developing a whole 45 hp.
Safe for a young driver? Possibly, but it was still capable of 90mph which is more than enough to have killed me and any unfortunate enough to get in my way. You don't need a sports car to be dangerous.
-
All I'm saying, is I would rather my kids take up a hobby that could get themselves killed, than a hobby that could kill someone else.
I'd rather they do drugs than sell them, and I'd rather they go flying around a race track than an Interstate.
I don't see how it is anyone's business what risks someone takes with their own life. Emergency workers might be an exception, but considering they voluntarily assumed the risks that come with that job...
And Wooley, true, you don't need a sports car to be dangerous. My friend was a walking accident in an AstroVan. But you do need more experience to safely drive a car with 200hp than one the same weight with 100hp.
-
I don't see how it is anyone's business what risks someone takes with their own life. Emergency workers might be an exception, but considering they voluntarily assumed the risks that come with that job...
Rescuers paid by?
That's right. Tax payers.
How about instead of wasting millions of $$ to rescue spoiled children of stupid parents we spend that money on [insert your wish list].
-
You have to explain to me a relevance of a sports car in this discussion.
In all the fatality stats, sports cars are included.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure, if we exclude all the other cars and keep stats for sports cars only, comparison of odds among driving a sports car and sailing solo circumnavigating the Earth, will be favorable to sports car.
Lets look at the car lots of young people (teenagers) drive. Honda Civic.
In 70s when first generation of Honda Civic was sold in US, the smallest engine had output of about 50hp.
Today it has 140hp. Performance wise, it's equal with many entry level performance cars of the 70s.
Yet somehow today's teens are driving safer than '70s teens.
As such, can we really say that performance of the car is responsible for unsafe driving? Or is it rather lack of experience?
Why? Why is something which is safer and affordable suddenly more irresponsible? Please, explain that to me.
And what if sport car is their dream?
Aren't those type of cars a dream to more teenagers than it is some other dangerous activity like climbing Mount Everest or sailing solo around the globe?
Yes, but consider this- safety and fuel efficiency equipment has also increased in quantity and weight. It's HEAVY STUFF! You need that 90 extra horsepower to lug around all of the antilock brakes, CPU's, rear and curtain airbags etc. A modest increase in acceleration never hurt anybody though.
-Penguin
-
It is all over the news, the father of the girl had cameras all over him and his family for weeks prior to her trip.
Why? Reality TV... the father signed a deal. That explains his willingness to let her go alone.
Awww. just saw this aswell. Well risking a kid for a reality show. :rolleyes:
Yes, bathtub with a sail good description for the optimist, or dumptruck on water. :D
Heres laser's penguin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tWb3pNvXQc
-
Yes, but consider this- safety and fuel efficiency equipment has also increased in quantity and weight. It's HEAVY STUFF! You need that 90 extra horsepower to lug around all of the antilock brakes, CPU's, rear and curtain airbags etc. A modest increase in acceleration never hurt anybody though.
Increase in power by factor: 2.8
Increase in weight by factor: 1.75
first gen Civic: 30lbs per hp
last gen Civic: 19lbs per hp
And I didn't say performance is bad, Vudak did...
-
I contend it is more irresponsible for a parent to buy their teen a sports car than to let them chase a dangerous (to themselves) dream.
Kinda off-topic, but I think its irresponsible for a parent to buy their teen a sports car and not take them to an empty parking lot to learn how to drive the damn thing.
Saved my life.
-
Rescuers paid by?
That's right. Tax payers.
How about instead of wasting millions of $$ to rescue spoiled children of stupid parents we spend that money on [cleaning up the gulf].
I see your point. I just had to put that in there.
:bolt:
-
Speaking of payment.
It seems that the parents are responsible for paying for their daughter's rescue, estimated to be $300,000. :O
It makes sense that someone pays. the French fishing boat is spending their money to get her to a port. They are not fishing, so they are losing money. Besides, I heard that the French Captain went overboard during the rescue attempt (his crew fished him out of the water before he was injured).
The parents are not sure how they are going to pay for all of this. :( :headscratch:
I just hope this gives the next group who tries this something to think about.
-
How about a live video feed from the boat to the world? Three cameras: One on top of the cabin, facing backwards, one inside the cabin, and one inside of the bow, beside the keel. A GPS transponder would help as well.
-Penguin
-
Right, but, again, what they are driving makes a BIG difference.
Would you rather have a two week driver behind the wheels of a WRX, or a Tempo?
lol i knew this guy who totaled a WRX after only having it like a week showing off for the girls, his parents bought him another more new o9 model WRX as punishment....
-
Speaking of payment.
It seems that the parents are responsible for paying for their daughter's rescue, estimated to be $300,000. :O
It makes sense that someone pays. the French fishing boat is spending their money to get her to a port. They are not fishing, so they are losing money. Besides, I heard that the French Captain went overboard during the rescue attempt (his crew fished him out of the water before he was injured).
The parents are not sure how they are going to pay for all of this. :( :headscratch:
I just hope this gives the next group who tries this something to think about.
so she just arrived on Reunion Island.
"According to the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, any ship of any nation in the vicinity of a distress call is required to render assistance at no cost." - wikipedia.
The search alone cost the australian taxpayers AUS$300,000. Rescue cost at this point unknown (although it almost cost the French skipper his life) but 6 days for the Ile de la Reunion fishing boat to take her to the Kerguelen Islands cannot be cheap, followed by 8 days on the French patrol boat Osiris to ferry her to Reunion Island which also will not be cheap. Add in the cost of the Global Express jet to coordinate the rescue.
That is one massive bill, to which her family are obliged to contribute ... nothing.
Her mother suggested that the bill be sent to the US government (even though they have no obligation to pay for it either.) I imagine that as many of you are US taxpayers you might have ... um ... opinions about this.
You might think at this point that that the family had leeched enough from the taxpayers of foreign nations to subsidise their little stunt ... but no.
Not content to just get their daughter back, they decided they wanted the boat back as well, so they set up a public appeal to raise the US$130,000 required to salvage it. bewilderingly they managed to raise (ie. blag) $2460 from ... well I dont know who would be dumb enough to throw money in their direction.
Abby is now planning to write a book. I can guess how much of the proceeds will be used to compensate all of the people who have paid for her little trip.
despite the volume of typing above I'm ... speechless :confused:
-
I would sent an U-Boat to help better! :D
It seems as a matter of fact that no adolescent can survive without help by his parents.
So this trip is totally a bad experiment confirmation.
-
Lame ..Once upon a time Men married and had sex with 12 year old girls, Dosent make it right for NOW now DOES IT? Times change and kids are kids longer today then from Once upon a time.
KAM
+10
-
AFAIAC she is a minor and the parents are responsible for the actions of their minor children, particularly when the parents facilitated the stupid stunt. I say bill them, especially if in fact the mother did say the bill should be sent to the US government.
:huh
-
so she just arrived on Reunion Island.
"According to the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, any ship of any nation in the vicinity of a distress call is required to render assistance at no cost." - wikipedia.
The search alone cost the australian taxpayers AUS$300,000. Rescue cost at this point unknown (although it almost cost the French skipper his life) but 6 days for the Ile de la Reunion fishing boat to take her to the Kerguelen Islands cannot be cheap, followed by 8 days on the French patrol boat Osiris to ferry her to Reunion Island which also will not be cheap. Add in the cost of the Global Express jet to coordinate the rescue.
That is one massive bill, to which her family are obliged to contribute ... nothing.
Her mother suggested that the bill be sent to the US government (even though they have no obligation to pay for it either.) I imagine that as many of you are US taxpayers you might have ... um ... opinions about this.
You might think at this point that that the family had leeched enough from the taxpayers of foreign nations to subsidise their little stunt ... but no.
Not content to just get their daughter back, they decided they wanted the boat back as well, so they set up a public appeal to raise the US$130,000 required to salvage it. bewilderingly they managed to raise (ie. blag) $2460 from ... well I dont know who would be dumb enough to throw money in their direction.
Abby is now planning to write a book. I can guess how much of the proceeds will be used to compensate all of the people who have paid for her little trip.
despite the volume of typing above I'm ... speechless :confused:
This is no worse then any of a hundreds of other rescues nations perform. Sometimes. just sometimes mega experienced sailors get in trouble too and need to be rescued.
The only thing unique about this story is the girls age. And thats it. Period. Same thing has happened to other older and more experienced sailors. Some of which didnt survive.
And she was obviously experienced and skilled enough to accomplish what she did and survive her ordeal. Something quite a few older ,more experienced sailors cant say.
So all of you,stop flipping whining about her trip, her rescue and how much it cost whatever government. Its irrelevant. All these nations live under the same agreement. For anyone that puts out to sea regardless of age.
Just be glad they do. Its one of the few damn things nations do co operate on.
-
http://rolexsydneyhobart.com/news.asp?key=4179
1998 Sydney Hobart Yacht Race Remembered
Threatening skies complemented a sombre mood as skippers, crews and volunteers gathered together dockside to pay tribute to the six sailors who have lost their lives during the Sydney to Hobart ocean racing classic ten years ago.
Joining them were family members of Bruce Guy, skipper of the ill-fated Tasmanian yacht Business Post Naiad, and crew member, Phillip Skeggs. Both perished during the storm that engulfed the yachts off Gabo Island in the 1998 race.
Matt Allen, Commodore of the CYCA, recalled that 10 years ago a severe storm resulted in the biggest ever maritime rescue conducted in Australian waters. 25 aircraft, six vessels and approximately 1,000 search personnel braved gale force winds and dangerous seas to rescue 55 sailors. 5 yachts sank and only 44 of the 115 starters make the finish to Hobart.
-
This is no worse then any of a hundreds of other rescues nations perform. Sometimes. just sometimes mega experienced sailors get in trouble too and need to be rescued.
The only thing unique about this story is the girls age. And thats it. Period. Same thing has happened to other older and more experienced sailors. Some of which didnt survive.
And she was obviously experienced and skilled enough to accomplish what she did and survive her ordeal. Something quite a few older ,more experienced sailors cant say.
So all of you,stop flipping whining about her trip, her rescue and how much it cost whatever government. Its irrelevant. All these nations live under the same agreement. For anyone that puts out to sea regardless of age.
Just be glad they do. Its one of the few damn things nations do co operate on.
So why did she have to attempt it at the age of 16 and not wait until she was a little older hmm?? In a dangerous part of the year nonetheless hmm?
-
So why did she have to attempt it at the age of 16 and not wait until she was a little older hmm?? In a dangerous part of the year nonetheless hmm?
If she has the skill set. And she very obviously does. Why not?
Cause she's 16? Nonsense. Females mature faster then males. Maturity wise a 16 year old is as mature as a male at 18. Yet a male at 18 (or female) can join the military and go fight in a war. Also a slightly dangerous activity.
And while an 18 may think they are an adult. There is a world of difference in the maturity level of most 18 year old to most 21 year olds. Which is a time when most actually start acting like adults. Between 16 and 18..not so much
And this "Well 16 year old back then were different then 16 year olds now" is also nonsense. A 16 year old is a 16 year old. Always has been alwways will be. Its our attitudes that have changed
And why do we feel the need to try and dictate how other people raise their children?
Nobody knows their child better then the parent. Im sure they didnt just say . "Hey, you want to sail the world. Here's a boat, go do it." without first taking into consideration is she had the maturity, or the skill set to do so.
Both, again which is made totally obvious by the mere fact she made it as far as she did. endured the difficulties she did, and had the wits about here to realize she was in trouble, take the appropriate measures and survive.
-
Not a properly a skill question.
The so called not mature people cannot decide in autonomy way.
This is why we take care of them offering rules to choose
until they start to build their one and to challenge all the consequences.
I agree that sea dangerous can be less dangerous then those of a bunch of people can 'offer'.
It is also true that the age from which a person becomes mature is influeced by a certain amount
of uncertainity (something between 18 and 28 as to me).
Two years of difference can be mathematically few but psychologically a lots.
And, just for fun, what hell do a 16 years old girl or a boy in the middle of a ocean???
Let's have some fun with others fellows!!
:salute
-
If she has the skill set. And she very obviously does. Why not?
Cause she's 16? Nonsense. Females mature faster then males. Maturity wise a 16 year old is as mature as a male at 18. Yet a male at 18 (or female) can join the military and go fight in a war. Also a slightly dangerous activity.
And while an 18 may think they are an adult. There is a world of difference in the maturity level of most 18 year old to most 21 year olds. Which is a time when most actually start acting like adults. Between 16 and 18..not so much
And this "Well 16 year old back then were different then 16 year olds now" is also nonsense. A 16 year old is a 16 year old. Always has been alwways will be. Its our attitudes that have changed
And why do we feel the need to try and dictate how other people raise their children?
Nobody knows their child better then the parent. Im sure they didnt just say . "Hey, you want to sail the world. Here's a boat, go do it." without first taking into consideration is she had the maturity, or the skill set to do so.
Both, again which is made totally obvious by the mere fact she made it as far as she did. endured the difficulties she did, and had the wits about here to realize she was in trouble, take the appropriate measures and survive.
Would she be a better sailor at the age of 16 or 21 with 5 more years experience? She is a good sailor for 16 yes, that isn't the point. The point is, the motives behind the trip were to set a record/become famous/get a reality tv show/write a book. That's why it HAD to be done at this young age and as others have said, this dangerous time of year to attempt it. Don't you see the unnecessary risk that she/her parents exposed her to just to set some silly record? If it was about sailing around the world, she could have done it at 18, or 21, and been a master, instead of just a good sailor at 16.
-
better luck next time, but pls at the age of 15 or less! imagine teh $ !!!11
-
Well done, Adventure Girl, and all those who avoid boredom by taking on challenges to make life ROCK.
And stuff all the po-faced miseries who'd tell you otherwise, they'll never know.
:salute
-
I just got my first sailing liscence (yacht sailor), and the next one I can get ( yacht navigator) is at 18. By law I'm only allowed to sail in daylight and no more than 2 Nm out from shore (required learning to earn liscence). It's funny how a 16 year old managed to sail around the world. Perhaps the laws are different in the US than in Poland where I got my liscence, and she got her navigator's liscence two years early.
-Penguin
-
Liscence? Licence, dear feller, or license. ;)
Well done on gaining your basic, and good luck with your next test. Such examinations of knowledge have long been regarded as essential to qualify one as being capable to crew or command a vessel (and nowadays the Health and Safety brigade have kittens whenever anybody takes a risk too) but it's good to know that the great sailor and navigator James Cook never took an examination in his life, being promoted to Lieutenant in His Majesty's Navy on the basis of his experience and abilities without the usual necessary visit to the Admiralty.
Sail on, amigo!
:cool:
-
Land navigator James Cook never took an examination in his life, being promoted to Lieutenant in His Majesty's Navy on the basis of his experience and abilities without the usual necessary visit to the Admiralty.
and he ended up being biffed on the head and eaten by cannibals in a lovely stew.
-
and he ended up being biffed on the head and eaten by cannibals in a lovely stew.
:rofl
-
and he ended up being biffed on the head and eaten by cannibals in a lovely stew.
That wasn't Borscht we had after the appetizer, was it? :bolt:
-
and he ended up being biffed on the head and eaten by cannibals in a lovely stew.
Not quite.
The esteem in which he was nevertheless held by the Hawaiians resulted in his body being retained by their chiefs and elders. Following the practice of the time, Cook's body underwent funerary rituals similar to those reserved for the chiefs and highest elders of the society. The body was disembowelled, baked to facilitate removal of the flesh, and the bones were carefully cleaned for preservation as religious icons in a fashion somewhat reminiscent of the treatment of European saints in the Middle Ages. Some of Cook's remains, disclosing some corroborating evidence to this effect, were eventually returned to the British for a formal burial at sea following an appeal by the crew.
-
gonna feed the frenzy lol
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Ambitious-teen-sailors-stir-safety-debate/ss/events/wl/072710teensailors
14yr old dutch cleared for solo world trip...
-
I just got my first sailing liscence (yacht sailor), and the next one I can get ( yacht navigator) is at 18. By law I'm only allowed to sail in daylight and no more than 2 Nm out from shore (required learning to earn liscence). It's funny how a 16 year old managed to sail around the world. Perhaps the laws are different in the US than in Poland where I got my liscence, and she got her navigator's liscence two years early.
-Penguin
As far as I know, we dont have any required licenses for sailing small boats. (Although im not sure about larger yachts)
Congrats BTW
-
If she has the skill set. And she very obviously does. Why not?
Cause she's 16? Nonsense. Females mature faster then males. Maturity wise a 16 year old is as mature as a male at 18. Yet a male at 18 (or female) can join the military and go fight in a war. Also a slightly dangerous activity.
And while an 18 may think they are an adult. There is a world of difference in the maturity level of most 18 year old to most 21 year olds. Which is a time when most actually start acting like adults. Between 16 and 18..not so much
And this "Well 16 year old back then were different then 16 year olds now" is also nonsense. A 16 year old is a 16 year old. Always has been alwways will be. Its our attitudes that have changed
And why do we feel the need to try and dictate how other people raise their children?
Nobody knows their child better then the parent. Im sure they didnt just say . "Hey, you want to sail the world. Here's a boat, go do it." without first taking into consideration is she had the maturity, or the skill set to do so.
Both, again which is made totally obvious by the mere fact she made it as far as she did. endured the difficulties she did, and had the wits about here to realize she was in trouble, take the appropriate measures and survive.
When you consider where she ended up, doesn't really mean that she didn't have the skill set to make it around the world, that she really only had half the skills necessary. Perhaps if she had the entire skill set necessary she would have realized that it was the wrong time of year to make such an attempt.
-
As far as I know, we dont have any required licenses for sailing small boats. (Although im not sure about larger yachts)
Congrats BTW
It's been a few years since I brushed up on all this, so forgive me if any of this is outdated. Yachts I believe require an operator with a certification to both operate the vessel within operator's licence length/size limitation (depends on the size of your yatch), weight limitations and passenger capacity limitations (this is, as i recall, the hard/expencive part of an operator/captain cert. as a captains rate would scale with the size/responcibility placed upon him, and as it depends on how many peoples Mr. Gates wants to host/entertain on the boat, including crew, you get what you pay for). This is one reason why its cheaper to never leave the dock on large-boat/yatch parties with lots of people attending, otherwise you might need an additional small fortune to hire a qualified captain, besides the additional operating/space costs (fuel costs, ensuring every person onboard can be provided with a PFD, etc.) of taking your party out on the sea. We don't regulate boating in this country via operators licenses like cars, we regulate it via individual ship regulation/registration on a state level, which is responcible for ensuring each vessel follows federal and that state's own regulations. It's kinda like when you get your car registered at the DMV, you have to do it annualy to recieve current tags and then display those tags on your vessel along with its serial/VIN number, and based on the size, occupant capacity and occupation of the craft an inspection may be required every (or other) year. Some operator licenses may be required in order to operate certain commercial vessels, but these typicaly involve situations where the operator/captain is imediatley responcible for the lives and safety of more than one or two people and in command of a fairly decent sized vessel (IE: ferry captains, fishing boat captains, large mast ships captains, etc.). The idea being that ensuring each vessel in the waterways reaches a level of quality and water-worthyness is more productive to a safe boating environment than regulating the quality of each individual boat operator.
-
We don't regulate boating in this country via operators licenses like cars, we regulate it via individual ship regulation/registration on a state level, which is responcible for ensuring each vessel follows federal and that state's own regulations.
Yea, as far as I know it varies state by state. I know growing up in New York State, an operating (boating) license was needed on top of the registration for motorized watercraft until the age of 18, at which point a driver's license + age = de facto boating license. Passengers or other factors did not matter, just as they do not while driving a car. To be honest, I don't recall if any sort of license was needed for sailing or other non-motorized craft, but I'm thinking not. Apparently nowadays in NY licenses are also required for jetski operators regardless of age, but for boats the old rules still apply.
-
Yea, as far as I know it varies state by state. I know growing up in New York State, an operating (boating) license was needed on top of the registration for motorized watercraft until the age of 18, at which point a driver's license + age = de facto boating license. Passengers or other factors did not matter, just as they do not while driving a car. To be honest, I don't recall if any sort of license was needed for sailing or other non-motorized craft, but I'm thinking not. Apparently nowadays in NY licenses are also required for jetski operators regardless of age, but for boats the old rules still apply.
If you want to document your boat with the U.S. Coast Guard, she must measure at least 5 tons net. For practical purposes regarding pleasure boats, net tonnage is understood to be 9/10 of gross tonnage.To calculate gross tonnage, take half of the overall length L times overall breadth B times depth D (the internal measurement of the hull, not the draft), all in feet, divided by 100. In other words:½ (L x B x D ÷ 100).
Roughly speaking, 5 net tons corresponds to a moderate-displacement boat about 30 feet in length. A heavy-displacement, long-keeled cruising boat could be as little as 25 feet overall but still have sufficient volume below decks to qualify for federal documentation. A documented vessel must be owned by a U.S. citizen. The captain (and any other officer) must be a U.S. citizen as well, although crew members need not be. Documentation gives you the legal right to fly the special U.S. Yacht Ensign (in home waters only), an authority that is not officially granted to other yachts— although many wear it anyway.A documented yacht’s title is also proof of ownership because it records the liens, mortgages, and other financial liabilities (if any) that she carries.
If you are planning on becoming captain of your own boat and using it for charter operations, you will need to be licensed by the United States Coast Guard (USCG). If you plan on using your boat only for recreational purposes, a license is not required. Most boaters seeking a captain's license receive the Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels (OUPV) License, which allows captains to charter a boat up to 100 tons and carry up to six passengers. This license can be upgraded to include larger boats with more passengers with a few extra requirements.
-
Would she be a better sailor at the age of 16 or 21 with 5 more years experience? She is a good sailor for 16 yes, that isn't the point. The point is, the motives behind the trip were to set a record/become famous/get a reality tv show/write a book. That's why it HAD to be done at this young age and as others have said, this dangerous time of year to attempt it. Don't you see the unnecessary risk that she/her parents exposed her to just to set some silly record? If it was about sailing around the world, she could have done it at 18, or 21, and been a master, instead of just a good sailor at 16.
Your missing the point, your only good to a certain point. Everyone reaches a point where their abilities peak, 5 more years might have yielded a slightly better sailor but if this is what she has done for all of her life then she probably knew pretty much all you would need to know.
IF you take a pilot who has been flying for 30 years vs. a pilot who has been flying for 15 years, It is very possible that the 15 year vet is better than the 30 year vet, despite the 15 extra years of flying. In fact your more than likely going to run into this, the 15 year vet and the 30 year vet know the same information. There is only so much information and techniques to learn, once you learn them all then 5 more years is NOT going to make a difference.
The only reason why you criticize her judgment is because she is lost, if she made it across the world you would have been doing back flips in amazement. It is her life, despite that she is 16, it is not her parents life or the state of California's... IT IS HER OWN LIFE. She can make decisions for herself, I know a ton of adults who make stupid decisions all the time, like drinking and driving or doing drugs...I am more than sure that her judgments are a lot better than most. Age DOES NOT MAKE A difference.
-
Fair enough Flipperk, but how much practical experience does she really have? You used the 15/30 yr analogy nicely, but she has nowhere near that much experience. I mean, if you want to say she has 8 years experience then you'd be counting years when she was 8-11 years old. At what point does quality of experience come into play?
In any case, I guess I shouldn't give a rats ass. You're right, it's her life to risk chasing a record even if she doesn't have enough life experience to realize how foolish and naive she may be.
-
Most 16 year old girls at my school have children already! :aok
jk, only about 15.
-
Fair enough Flipperk, but how much practical experience does she really have? You used the 15/30 yr analogy nicely, but she has nowhere near that much experience. I mean, if you want to say she has 8 years experience then you'd be counting years when she was 8-11 years old. At what point does quality of experience come into play?
In any case, I guess I shouldn't give a rats ass. You're right, it's her life to risk chasing a record even if she doesn't have enough life experience to realize how foolish and naive she may be.
Exactly! ;)
Im not saying she made a bad or a good choice, but it was her choice to make...no one elses. It is her life and this is the decision she made.
-
Most 16 year old girls at my school have children already! :aok
jk, only about 15.
Same at my school.
-
Exactly! ;)
Im not saying she made a bad or a good choice, but it was her choice to make...no one elses. It is her life and this is the decision she made.
No sweat off my back. :aok