Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Yarbles on July 07, 2010, 07:21:56 AM

Title: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yarbles on July 07, 2010, 07:21:56 AM
 :aok

Becase it rewards getting lots of kills in the shortest time and not getting killed.

Ok it also records points which is distorting as the player with more time to play has an advantage. Other than that it all makes sense.

I realise there are those looking for "good fights" which I assume are co alt/e 1v1 or hurling themselves at the enemy horde but since this is supposed to be LOOSELY based on WW2 ideas of how to be a top scoring ace not dead I cant think of a better system.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Zazen13 on July 07, 2010, 08:06:33 AM
I agree. The only improvement I could think of is if they could devise a method to adjust or modify point allocation to compensate for local numeric disparity. For example; if you and your 30 closest friends are vulch capping a field, the vulch kills wouldn't be worth many, if any, points. Whereas, you and a few teammates carefully culling a herd of 30 enemy over your field would be worth far more points than normal. This would help mitigate the hordfest prevalence and reward those who may not play as much , but do so in a more sportsmanlike manner than primarily subsisting on vulch capping for their kills.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: TW9 on July 07, 2010, 08:25:11 AM
I agree. The only improvement I could think of is if they could devise a method to adjust or modify point allocation to compensate for local numeric disparity. For example; if you and your 30 closest friends are vulch capping a field, the vulch kills wouldn't be worth many, if any, points. Whereas, you and a few teammates carefully culling a herd of 30 enemy over your field would be worth far more points than normal. This would help mitigate the hordfest prevalence and reward those who may not play as much , but do so in a more sportsmanlike manner than primarily subsisting on vulch capping for their kills.

Or somehow coad it to where planes shot on runway are scored in the attack scores. 
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Greebo on July 07, 2010, 09:02:01 AM
I agree completely Zazen. It seems a pretty simple thing to implement, the FE just tots up the number of red and green icons in visible range at the time of each kill and bases the score multiplier on that. If you want to complicate it a bit further you could weight the effect by each icon's range at that time as well, i.e. closer icons have more effect.

Score isn't about realism anyway, its about making the game work. Currently the score system encourages gang banging and running away if there's any chance of a fair fight etc. This change would encourage people who care about score to seek out more balanced fights and would therefore help those who don't care to find them too. I can't think of anything that would make as a big a difference to MA gameplay for such a small change to the code.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: ACE on July 07, 2010, 09:05:15 AM
Nice Yarbles.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: ImADot on July 07, 2010, 09:36:54 AM
They could do away with fighter scores; just have Attack, Bomber and GV scores.  Or, just do away with scores.  But since this is a game, and games need some kind of scoring system for those who need to justify their existence, we make do with what we have.  No matter what is done, someone will find a way to work around the rules to artificially inflate their score because they have nothing else in their life to make them feel good about themselves.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: hitech on July 07, 2010, 09:52:03 AM
I agree. The only improvement I could think of is if they could devise a method to adjust or modify point allocation to compensate for local numeric disparity. For example; if you and your 30 closest friends are vulch capping a field, the vulch kills wouldn't be worth many, if any, points. Whereas, you and a few teammates carefully culling a herd of 30 enemy over your field would be worth far more points than normal. This would help mitigate the hordfest prevalence and reward those who may not play as much , but do so in a more sportsmanlike manner than primarily subsisting on vulch capping for their kills.

Where you fight is your choice, hence it is the players choice how he wants to compete.

HiTech
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 68Hawk on July 07, 2010, 10:20:36 AM
"Anyone who shows up for a fair fight is unprepared."

"When going to a gunfight, bring a gun.  Bring two guns.  Bring all your friends with guns."

I can't remember who these are properly attributed to, but they're featured on Magpul's website.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 07, 2010, 10:32:20 AM
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs39/f/2008/332/d/f/Spotlight_on____by_Hanratty_Stock.gif)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 07, 2010, 02:40:08 PM
Or somehow coad it to where planes shot on runway are scored in the attack scores. 

I agree!!

Vulchers aren't "fighting" anything.

They may as well be fighting defensless buildings.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: hitech on July 07, 2010, 02:45:41 PM
I agree!!

Vulchers aren't "fighting" anything.

They may as well be fighting defensless buildings.

Can you see the vulchers from the tower? Yessss.
Can you move to another field? Yesssss.
And who should suffer for your choice?

HiTech
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Shuffler on July 07, 2010, 02:50:58 PM
Can you see the vulchers from the tower? Yessss.
Can you move to another field? Yesssss.
And who should suffer for your choice?

HiTech

Who is this guy???  Why does he never get PNG'd??   :D

It is obviously not the real HT as all the letters are there and in the right order.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 07, 2010, 02:55:47 PM
Can you see the vulchers from the tower? Yessss.
Can you move to another field? Yesssss.
And who should suffer for your choice?

HiTech

After the new anti noe change and ridiculous radar circles, you're kidding right?
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 07, 2010, 03:10:07 PM
There is a certain satisfaction derived from HOing a vultcher  OTR yes.....
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 07, 2010, 03:31:34 PM
After the new anti noe change and ridiculous radar circles, you're kidding right?

He isn't kidding and he's merely casting light on a facet of game play.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 07, 2010, 03:46:57 PM
He isn't kidding and he's merely casting light on a facet of game play.

I'm sure he's NOT kidding.

But I find it ironic that he is using the same statements that guys who did noes were using against their detractors.

In that case, THEIR statements were deemed "ridiculous" as they did not promote combat.

Vuching promotes combat?? LOL
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 07, 2010, 03:50:15 PM
vulching is now equivalent to sneak attacking an undefended base?  I dont think so tim...

I have killed PLENTY of people vulching a capped base either by spraying them in a OTR IL2 or getting into a gun.  When neither of those work I either up a GV.  If worse case go to nearest field and spawn a nearby GV and just fly over and kill the cappers.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 07, 2010, 03:50:22 PM
I'm sure he's NOT kidding.

But I find it ironic that he is using the same statements that guys who did noes were using against their detractors.

In that case, THEIR statements were deemed "ridiculous" as they did not promote combat.

Most of the "NOE crowd" have been getting their butts handed to them Boner.   You rarely see them and their "whack-a-mole" BS in the Arenas.   Now that they are forced to "fight", you see them dropping like flies.  

Multi-bomber NOE raids take Zilch in the skill department.    The extended radar now assists the defenders of this even further.  
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: fudgums on July 07, 2010, 03:53:42 PM
dang and I thought most MA maps had over 250 bases, and if one is getting vulch I can't fly. Go figure  :mad: :mad:
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 07, 2010, 03:54:31 PM
vulching is now equivalent to sneak attacking an undefended base?  I dont think so tim...

I wouldn't expect you to think so, Tim.

Vulching takes as much skill and promotes combat just as much as taking an "undefended" base. Tim.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: hitech on July 07, 2010, 03:55:53 PM
I wouldn't expect you to think so, Tim.

Vulching takes as much skill and promotes combat just as much as taking an "undefended" base. Tim.

Hmm combat takes 2 planes 1 enemy 1 friendly.

NOE attacking undefended field one 1 country.

So you were saying?

HiTech
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 07, 2010, 03:56:51 PM
Hmm combat takes 2 planes 1 enemy 1 friendly.

NOE attacking undefended field one 1 country.

So you were saying?

HiTech


 :cheers:
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 07, 2010, 03:58:17 PM
I wouldn't expect you to think so, Tim.
Tim, thats ok, I have a blast doing both regardless of what you think takes skill or not lol

At least it is player versus player eh  :aok
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: kilz on July 07, 2010, 04:00:32 PM
ummm still way off topic but i still think radar should be reduced to 15 miles. this should prevent over lapping of bases other than that love the new radar set up
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: kilo2 on July 07, 2010, 04:02:12 PM
Hmm combat takes 2 planes 1 enemy 1 friendly.

NOE attacking undefended field one 1 country.

So you were saying?

HiTech


Could people up to defend them? YESSSS
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 07, 2010, 04:02:17 PM
ummm still way off topic but i still think radar should be reduced to 15 miles. this should prevent over lapping of bases other than that love the new radar set up

If this happens (which it won't), then the Arenas once again turn into "Whack-a-mole NOE undefended base takes".    
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: WMLute on July 07, 2010, 04:04:00 PM
If this happens (which it won't), then the Arenas once again turn into "Whack-a-mole NOE undefended base takes".    

I would add...

Now that Radar is so much more important, do we agree that the hardness setting needs to be bumped up a bit?

Nothing drastic...  say 1k?
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 07, 2010, 04:06:03 PM
I would add...

Now that Radar is so much more important, do we agree that the hardness setting needs to be bumped up a bit?

Nothing drastic...  say 1k?

I agree.   But then they'd find another thing to whine about.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Lusche on July 07, 2010, 04:09:21 PM
I would add...

Now that Radar is so much more important, do we agree that the hardness setting needs to be bumped up a bit?

Nothing drastic...  say 1k?

Why is it more important?

If any, it is less due to that friggin overlapping dar circles

And what I had noticed since the dar changes... that many times there was only a bigger battle, after several /all dars in the vicinity went down.
I have the feeling (can't prove that of course) that many are quite reluctant from upping at a base that puts them on enemy dar the very moment they raise the gear. OR to defend a base from the enemy horde that has full dar coverage over the vulched base.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 07, 2010, 04:11:31 PM
Why is it more important?

If any, it is less due to that friggin overlapping dar circles

And what I had noticed since the dar changes... that many times there was only a bigger battle, after several /all dars in the vicinity went down.
I have the feeling (can't prove that of course) that many are quite reluctant from upping at a base that puts them on enemy dar the very moment they raise the gear. OR to defend a base from the enemy horde that has full dar coverage over the vulched base.

The Widowmakers enjoy doing this.   I find the La7 with 50% fuel can really piss people off, especially if the vultchers, let it get their goon.  
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: ImADot on July 07, 2010, 04:13:26 PM
[hijack] It's been said that vulching is the reward for those who got to the airfield and deacked it, whether they fought their way in or nobody bothered to stop them.  I tried it...once.  I found it boring and meaningless. [/hijack]
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 07, 2010, 04:16:56 PM
[hijack] It's been said that vulching is the reward for those who got to the airfield and deacked it, whether they fought their way in or nobody bothered to stop them.  I tried it...once.  I found it boring and meaningless. [/hijack]

Vulching is one of the last of the true art forms.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Volron on July 07, 2010, 04:19:32 PM
Hmmm...  I remember seeing an argument very similar to this one in more than a couple of threads...  "Change the scoring system so that vulch's do not give as many perks/points as "fighting" for your kill does...."  What next? Change it to where getting vulched doesn't count against you?  How about, YOU get perks for getting vulched?  Yeah!  That would be great!  And while you are at it, it could cost the person who vulched you, to lose all his perks and reset his rank too!  Seriously, if you are upping from a cap field, you are likely to get vulched.  If you do not like it, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.  There are other fields to up from ya know.  :lol  Even HiTech has stated that.


In any event, I do not see this thread lasting long...
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 07, 2010, 04:21:25 PM
In any event, I do not see this thread lasting long...

Even though Dale is posting in it?

Funnier yet, IIRC yer a Claim Jumper on top of it all.   
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: kilz on July 07, 2010, 04:28:22 PM
Kayara wouldn't make a difference. as of right now NOE missions don't make bases flash till old radar settings. the only thing i don't like is up at a base try to get some alt and the enemy can see where your going what your doing. should be able to up at a base and grab some alt and look for a fight.

as of now what i am seeing is the enemy sees your dot upping and they up in horde and grab massive alt. just to get some what of a co alt fight you have to climb to 15k now.

just think the radar at 20 miles is over kill. if you want to keep it at 20 miles that's fine i don't care extend the bases from each other.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: lyric1 on July 07, 2010, 04:34:26 PM
Most of the "NOE crowd" have been getting their butts handed to them Boner.   You rarely see them and their "whack-a-mole" BS in the Arenas.   Now that they are forced to "fight", you see them dropping like flies.  

Multi-bomber NOE raids take Zilch in the skill department.    The extended radar now assists the defenders of this even further.  
Not sure where you have been playing I have seen no difference with NOE's with extended radar & depending on what country you attack they still don't up to defend.

From what I have seen nothing much has changed. Except the NOE crowd has shown up on mass in bombers & higher? Yet depending on what country you attack they still don't up to defend the base because it is to much effort to get to the bombers alt.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 07, 2010, 04:35:40 PM
Tim, thats ok, I have a blast doing both regardless of what you think takes skill or not lol

At least it is player versus player eh  :aok

Yeah, but the guy who is trying to take off the runway to "fight" isn't really in play yet is he?

I really couldn't care less if someone vulches or not, anymore than I cared if someone took a field noe.

At least if someone was coming in noe, I had a chance to up and "fight".

Player vs. player?  LOL

What the difference between shooting a guy trying to take off on a runway and shooting a building?  Nothing. They are both defenseless.

There is no "fight" happening, so why should a guy in a "fighter" get score points for it??

If you want "fight" against things on the ground, you should be scored in "attack" mode.

If you happen to try to do it for easy kills for your "fighter" score. tough luck.

Thats my opinion Tim. :banana:



Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 07, 2010, 04:46:47 PM
Not sure where you have been playing I have seen no difference with NOE's with extended radar & depending on what country you attack they still don't up to defend.

From what I have seen nothing much has changed. Except the NOE crowd has shown up on mass in bombers & higher? Yet depending on what country you attack they still don't up to defend the base because it is to much effort to get to the bombers alt.

I've rarely seen you in the Arenas and aside from Rooks taking TT bases, the mass usage of 5+ buff formations NOE's, has dropped substantially.  

I don't care about the usage of bombers at alt, I got tired of the BS that Dale has all but eliminated.  
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 07, 2010, 04:55:07 PM
the mass usage of 5+ buff formations NOE's, has dropped substantially.    

I was on for maybe an hour last night, I caught and defended against two 5+ buff formation noes , followed by the usual 110s and low fighters, goons etc.

Great fun!

Always was.

Was one of my favorite things in the game.

Gonna miss it.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 07, 2010, 04:56:41 PM
I was on for maybe an hour last night, I caught and defended against two 5+ buff formation noes , followed by the usual 110s and low fighters, goons etc.

Great fun!

Always was.

Was one of my favorite things in the game.

Gonna miss it.

As a Knight these days, I rarely see them.   I know a few squads in Rookland DEPEND on them, as they've never truly progressed. 
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: RTHolmes on July 07, 2010, 05:06:26 PM
my problem with the fighter score system is the K/H. encourages furballing rather than historical fighter sorties (sweeps/bomber interception) and trying to land sorties (no kills, just ditch it close to your own base rather than landing, no penalty and improves your K/H). its the "quake factor" in the scoring system.

then again I dont really care about score so ... um whatever :)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Bruv119 on July 07, 2010, 05:08:08 PM
nothing wrong with quake!  

Wouldn't want timid pickers being ranked higher than the guys who know how to kill like machines.

bomber interception is the best way to increase hit % and accumulate points faster.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: RTHolmes on July 07, 2010, 05:20:19 PM
I know - played fps (RTCW and ET) for years and loved it (as UnionJackJackson):aok

not sure K/H has much to do with picking, though it could be a factor I guess.

buff hunting does help with hit% and damage points for sure, but only if you've spent the time to learn how to do it ;)

the other problem with K/H is it favours those that fly during US primetime, its hard to get good K/H if you have to spend 20mins finding someone to kill ...

seems a bit nuts that fighter score depends to a degree on where you live and when you log in.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Lusche on July 07, 2010, 05:27:40 PM
not sure K/H has much to do with picking, though it could be a factor I guess.

Because if you take K/H away, you will help those flying for hours and only engaging if there ain't the sligthest danger of being shot down

You know, those guys with a freaky K/D of 8 but a sucky K/H of 2...

That being said, my own fighter score would massively benefit from removing K/H, always being my "worst" category ;)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Volron on July 07, 2010, 05:39:25 PM
Even though Dale is posting in it?

Funnier yet, IIRC yer a Claim Jumper on top of it all.   

I should have been more specific...  If this continues on about vulching, then I do not see this thread lasting long.

He is posting in a thread about on a topic that has been talked about in more than a few other threads (vulching).  His point on the vulching issue is, if you don't want to get vulched, up from another field.  Changing the scoring system just because of vulching, won't solve the issue (and will likely erk someone).  Yes, it's tough as nails to get into the air on a capped field, but some of my funnest and funniest moments happen during these times.  I've seen a few folks auger into the hanger, the ground and that water tower, trying to vulch me. lol

And what point are you trying to make by pointing out that I'm a CJ?  You are the only one who has pointed this out since I joined the forums.  So the point of you doing it, is lost on me....


If K/H is the main issue, then modifying that or being rid of it, MAY work.  As Yarbles pointed out, those who can practically live on AH, have a major advantage over those of us who just don't have that amount of time to spend or log in during the "down" time.  My score won't change much. lol  In fact, at this moment, I'd be at a very low rank since I actually have more deaths than kills.  :lol  I have to figure out how I got my Ta-152 to go into a flat spin at 500ft while landing...  Went tail first into the ground I might add.  :rofl
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: RTHolmes on July 07, 2010, 05:47:01 PM
That being said, my own fighter score would massively benefit from removing K/H, always being my "worst" category ;)

yeah same, I notice we fly similar planes/sortie profiles too. if i ever get round to learning some Deutsch we should wing ;)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Lusche on July 07, 2010, 05:50:05 PM
if i ever get round to learning some Deutsch we should wing ;)

Don't sweat it, I'm not talking German in game either. The Black-Knights(GER)'s have tried for years talking me into winging up with them, to no avail  ;)

Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: uptown on July 07, 2010, 08:04:45 PM
In alot of cases fighter rank has nothing to do with ones knowledge of ACMs. But rather ones skill at the art of playing the stats game. Yes there are several around here that are deserving of the fighter rank they have, but most are not IMHO.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 07, 2010, 08:08:45 PM
In alot of cases fighter rank has nothing to do with ones knowledge of ACMs. But rather ones skill at the art of playing the stats game. Yes there are several around here that are deserving of the fighter rank they have, but most are not IMHO.

I am totally deserving of my #756 fighter rank, so much so that I made my fiance get a tramp stamp with those numbers.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: uptown on July 07, 2010, 08:15:59 PM
 :rofl :rofl My wife wanted to know what I was laughing about. Showed her your post and she said, "he's not serious is he?"  :rofl 


I said why yes he is. How do you feel about getting a tattoo?  :devil
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: AWwrgwy on July 07, 2010, 10:44:29 PM
In alot of cases fighter rank has nothing to do with ones knowledge of ACMs. But rather ones skill at the art of playing the stats game. Yes there are several around here that are deserving of the fighter rank they have, but most are not IMHO.

Isn't that true of all ranks though?


Kayara wouldn't make a difference. as of right now NOE missions don't make bases flash till old radar settings. the only thing i don't like is up at a base try to get some alt and the enemy can see where your going what your doing. should be able to up at a base and grab some alt and look for a fight.

as of now what i am seeing is the enemy sees your dot upping and they up in horde and grab massive alt. just to get some what of a co alt fight you have to climb to 15k now.

just think the radar at 20 miles is over kill. if you want to keep it at 20 miles that's fine i don't care extend the bases from each other.

Wait, wait, wait a second.

You're complaining because you can't take off and get alt and position on the enemy because they can see you as soon as you take off and get alt and position on you?

 :rofl

Really?

  :devil


wrongway
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yarbles on July 08, 2010, 03:26:25 AM
In alot of cases fighter rank has nothing to do with ones knowledge of ACMs. But rather ones skill at the art of playing the stats game. Yes there are several around here that are deserving of the fighter rank they have, but most are not IMHO.

The system also encourages team play: winging up (not whingeing), situational awareness mutiplied as a consequence of flying with a few mates and someone to clear your six. Similarly one persoan is unlikely to be able to cap a base.

Strangely I went to the lake in the DA last night and instantly got ganged by 4 guys. I thought the DA wsas for fighting duels?

So being a good fighter pilot in ww2 wasn't fighting a series of duels. I think it was about gaining the advantage and using it and people flew in squads not on their own.

I still see no way of improving the current system other than say damage points per hour instead of just damage maybe but this would encourage people to declare so to speak (a cricketing term) after maybe one hour of play and then go atack for the rest of the tour.

So its a good system which promotes realism and game play.

I think my squad has a good balance . People rip it up in the MA but also fight duels in the da.

The current system gives allot of different ways to play if you are interested in score as part of the fun :aok

BTW the noe types can go and kill a load of radars before they launch. Tactics  ;)

Capping and vulching are another aspect of the game which it makes it more dynamic. If people choose to pad their scores in this way they are only benefiting from the foolishness of others who normally work it out eventually.
    
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 08, 2010, 01:18:37 PM
In alot of cases fighter rank has nothing to do with ones knowledge of ACMs. But rather ones skill at the art of playing the stats game. Yes there are several around here that are deserving of the fighter rank they have, but most are not IMHO.

 :aok  Absolutely.   
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: CAP1 on July 08, 2010, 02:24:04 PM
vulching is now equivalent to sneak attacking an undefended base?  I dont think so tim...

I have killed PLENTY of people vulching a capped base either by spraying them in a OTR IL2 or getting into a gun.  When neither of those work I either up a GV.  If worse case go to nearest field and spawn a nearby GV and just fly over and kill the cappers.

before i stopped flying on a regular basis, i was having some fun de-acking a small base. it seemed as soon as i did that, the gv's all came out......then i'd fly down the runway as if i was gonna vulch the planes, but not do it,......and see how many passes i could make before i got kilt.
 one of the funny things from that, was when a bomber drone lifted off right in front of me....i collided with him....and almost couldn't take off again, i was laughing so hard.  :D
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: CAP1 on July 08, 2010, 02:25:30 PM
Hmm combat takes 2 planes 1 enemy 1 friendly.

NOE attacking undefended field one 1 country.

So you were saying?

HiTech


theoretically, it can take two enemy planes........
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: CAP1 on July 08, 2010, 02:26:58 PM
I agree.   But then they'd find another thing to whine about.



ooooooo....stop whining about people whining!!

 :D
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 09, 2010, 12:01:16 PM
theoretically, it can take two enemy planes........
the basic concept.  One monkey with a stone attacking another monkey with a stone.  War.  It takes two to war. 

The problem that HTC has faced since the introduction of static targets, is the human behavior of avoiding conflict directly with other humans when possible, and instead throwing eggs at the enemy house.  AH has fallen more towards the house egging as of late....but its their game and they are managing it.  Balancing it.  That's what the dar reduction and NOE restrictions were all about.  Them managing an imbalance.  Its got to be tricky for them.

Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: CAP1 on July 09, 2010, 12:17:09 PM
the basic concept.  One monkey with a stone attacking another monkey with a stone.  War.  It takes two to war. 

The problem that HTC has faced since the introduction of static targets, is the human behavior of avoiding conflict directly with other humans when possible, and instead throwing eggs at the enemy house.  AH has fallen more towards the house egging as of late....but its their game and they are managing it.  Balancing it.  That's what the dar reduction and NOE restrictions were all about.  Them managing an imbalance.  Its got to be tricky for them.



oo i know. i was trying to be sarcastically funny.

i don't envy them though........try as the might to keep all of us happy, no matter what they do, there'll be some butwipe wanting to complain about something.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: yanksfan on July 09, 2010, 05:44:29 PM
There's a score?
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 09, 2010, 05:55:47 PM
Missed you Yanks. ;)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Soulyss on July 09, 2010, 06:18:45 PM
Yanks!

How ya been? :)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: rvflyer on July 09, 2010, 06:43:01 PM
Kayara wouldn't make a difference. as of right now NOE missions don't make bases flash till old radar settings. the only thing i don't like is up at a base try to get some alt and the enemy can see where your going what your doing. should be able to up at a base and grab some alt and look for a fight.

as of now what i am seeing is the enemy sees your dot upping and they up in horde and grab massive alt. just to get some what of a co alt fight you have to climb to 15k now.

just think the radar at 20 miles is over kill. if you want to keep it at 20 miles that's fine i don't care extend the bases from each other.

 :airplane: I agree leave it at 65' but back to original size. Much less clutter. (Yeah I know turn radar off no clutter at all)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: froger on July 10, 2010, 12:21:59 AM
On Vulching,
  If you ain't doin it yer missin out on some great target practice,
If you ain't hittin yer target yer doin it wrong.   :aok

Ya know that yer under 65 feet sittin on the runway but we can still see ya  :D



froger
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: yanksfan on July 10, 2010, 06:43:51 PM
Yanks!

How ya been? :)

Missed you Yanks. ;)

hey guys,, :x,just renwed acct,, :x,need 80th invite,,,and Del owes me a new blender!!!!

sorry for the highjack,,,dull topic anyway... :lol
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Chalenge on July 11, 2010, 01:31:34 AM
...
I still see no way of improving the current system other than say damage points per hour instead of just damage maybe but this would encourage people to declare so to speak (a cricketing term) after maybe one hour of play and then go atack for the rest of the tour.
...

It has been suggested before but Hitech correctly pointed out that all this would do is slew the score results more toward points and kills per time while favoring one style of fighting over another. In the end all that would happen is the furballing canoppy-banging crowd would be screaming bloody-murder that fighter score means even less (which it would).
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: LLv34_Snefens on July 11, 2010, 06:41:43 AM
Having read this thread I suddenly had an idea about an alternative way of ranking.

As it is now, the easiest way to improve your ranking, is to improve the stat in which you are ranked worst. All other even you gain more by increasing Hit% from 7 to 9 than if you increase your K/D from 10 to 30. And then there of course is the point catagory that more is a measure of time online.

Instead I thought of dividing each catagory by some "Gold standard", add the numbers together and the one with the lowest total is ranked best.

Example, with the standard set to:

K/D 20
K/S 5
K/H 20
Hit% 20
Dam 50000

we can look at the ranks from LW tour 125:

Grizz is at #1 and would get the following

K/D 20/10.93=1.83
K/S 5/4.31=1.16
K/H 20/16.56=1.21
Hit% 20/15.07=1.33
Dam 50000/61599=0.81
Total = 6.34

Doing the same to #2 and #3 we get:

TonyJoey
2.60
1.29
1.41
1.14
0.36
----
6.80

DrBone
1.05
0.97
1.51
1.61
1.30
----
6.44

In this case #3 would be ranked second instead. This all depends on what the "Gold standard" is set to of course. If the point catagory isn't set very high, it would actually negate the effect of time online in the extreme cases. If you have 1/4 of the standard you would get 4 points, if you have 2/3 standard you get 1.5. Twice the standard 0.5 ect.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: RTHolmes on July 11, 2010, 07:30:15 AM
the easiest way to improve your ranking, is to improve the stat in which you are ranked worst.

your system just changes that to

Quote
the easiest way to improve your score, is to improve the stat in which you are scored worst.

... :headscratch:
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: yanksfan on July 11, 2010, 10:08:58 AM
don't worry about the score,,,just have fun,,scores are to easy to minipulate,,,,they mean nothing
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: caldera on July 11, 2010, 10:25:56 AM
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/geek2.jpg)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: LLv34_Snefens on July 11, 2010, 11:42:24 AM
your system just changes that to

... :headscratch:

There would still be rank. The one with the lowest combined score is ranked #1, just the way it's done now, only it would actually improve your rank to get your K/D from 10 to 20. I know it will now too, but only very little.

BTW, the only tour I played for rank was when there were prize money for getting in the top10. :)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: guncrasher on July 12, 2010, 03:22:21 AM
Score only matters if you have something like this by your side.

semp

(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/semperac/world-cup-2010-hot-fans-7-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: dedalos on July 12, 2010, 08:34:16 AM
Hmm combat takes 2 planes 1 enemy 1 friendly.

NOE attacking undefended field one 1 country.

So you were saying?

HiTech


So vluching is combat then?
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 12, 2010, 10:32:59 AM
So vluching is combat then?

Apparently it is.  :rofl


 
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Vinkman on July 12, 2010, 11:23:17 AM
Interesting thread. The score uses a lot of factors and seems pretty comprehensive. HTC has probably put a lot of thought into tweaking the factors and thier weighting in a way that not only determines pilots skill, but promotes fun game play for all. But in my opinion, the real sorting factor in score is team flying vs individual flying. The guys with the best scores are all good sticks and good shots, but the watch how often Grizz is flying with Kappa, or the AKs fly in a group. When these guys fly in packs is when they run up the huge scores. If beating one of these guys is tough, beating 2 or 3 or 4 of them flying together is impossible even if you have enough friendlies around to outnumber them, if you're not coordinating properly. And very few in the MA can fly in a coordinated way.

Group/team/wingman/ flying, is a huge atvantage in the MA for those that do it well. It take a lot of experience to develop both the understanding of how to do it effectively, and to develop the relationships with those you need to fly with.  I think this is where (some of) the squads have their biggest impact on the game.  

I need to find some friends. If only I weren't so unlikeable   :D
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 12, 2010, 12:23:12 PM
Score only matters if you have something like this by your side.

semp

(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/semperac/world-cup-2010-hot-fans-7-1.jpg)

Nice cell phone holder.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 12, 2010, 12:24:26 PM
So vluching is combat then?

Why wouldn't it be?  Other than your own personal opinion, vulching is combat.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: grizz441 on July 12, 2010, 12:29:01 PM
Instead I thought of dividing each catagory by some "Gold standard", add the numbers together and the one with the lowest total is ranked best.


Except that the gold standard would be something that would have to vary every single tour based on the standard deviations of the population's average stats.  I think you'd find that the current method would tabulate almost the same ranks.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 12, 2010, 12:31:35 PM
I need to find some friends. If only I weren't so unlikeable   :D
I like ya Vinkman but I haven't seen you around much lately...must be hanging out in the pink arena.



This is the first time I've heard of a score in AH. What does it do for you?
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 12, 2010, 01:57:58 PM
Why wouldn't it be?  Other than your own personal opinion, vulching is combat.


ack-ack

According to "your" personal opinion.

Not mine.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Vinkman on July 12, 2010, 02:01:12 PM
I like ya Vinkman but I haven't seen you around much lately...must be hanging out in the pink arena.



This is the first time I've heard of a score in AH. What does it do for you?

Thanks want to be my wingman?  :lol

...and what is with the "pink" arena. Are we "fight for the cure"  :aok     I laughed when I saw that. Surprised it didn't pop on the boards.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 12, 2010, 02:21:21 PM
According to "your" personal opinion.

Not mine.

regardless of what your opinion is on vulching, it is combat whether you like it or not.  while it might not be a 'fight', it certainly is combat.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: dedalos on July 12, 2010, 02:27:18 PM
regardless of what your opinion is on vulching, it is combat whether you like it or not.  while it might not be a 'fight', it certainly is combat.

ack-ack

So is an NOE base take then since there is ack and someone upping sometimes lol
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 12, 2010, 02:27:32 PM
Well then, I guess someone should have told the pilots in WWII that vulching planes on an airfield wasn't combat...maybe it was a war crime...  :noid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t8nlIaQJaI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t8nlIaQJaI&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBHGo5rud4U&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBHGo5rud4U&feature=related)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2010, 02:30:53 PM
Once you think this is really like WWII then you need to log off permanently when shot down.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 12, 2010, 02:37:39 PM
Once you think this is really like WWII then you need to log off permanently when shot down.
Oh here we go...if it's nothing more than a cartoon game then there shouldn't be any talk of ACM, SA, or anything else to do with even a concept of reality, may as well be Mario World.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ardy123 on July 12, 2010, 02:37:42 PM
Well then, I guess someone should have told the pilots in WWII that vulching planes on an airfield wasn't combat...maybe it was a war crime...  :noid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t8nlIaQJaI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t8nlIaQJaI&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBHGo5rud4U&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBHGo5rud4U&feature=related)

comparing to real ww2 combat again lol... u realize you would not find the game fun AT ALL if it was 'like' ww2.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2010, 02:48:26 PM
Oh here we go...if it's nothing more than a cartoon game then there shouldn't be any talk of ACM, SA, or anything else to do with even a concept of reality, may as well be Mario World.

It's a game that simulates arial combat. Since it is a game then those things that detract from game play are frowned upon.

In true life and death situations there are many things that may happen that does not lend itself well to a game.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 12, 2010, 02:50:58 PM
Once you think this is really like WWII then you need to log off permanently when shot down.

Well, then you could also apply that to dogfighting or anything else related to it like ACM and the like.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 12, 2010, 02:55:20 PM
It's a game that simulates arial combat. Since it is a game then those things that detract from game play are frowned upon.


How does vulching detract from game play?  

Man, soon people are going to whine this game out of existence.

comparing to real ww2 combat again lol... u realize you would not find the game fun AT ALL if it was 'like' ww2.

But vulching is fun...nothing pisses off the other guy as quickly as vulching him, well, maybe shooting his chute.  Frankly, vulching is also one of the most easiest things to prevent, just don't up from a base that is being actively vulched.  It is really that simple but of course, people will find whining about it to be far more easier.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: dedalos on July 12, 2010, 03:00:57 PM
Well then, I guess someone should have told the pilots in WWII that vulching planes on an airfield wasn't combat...maybe it was a war crime...  :noid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t8nlIaQJaI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t8nlIaQJaI&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBHGo5rud4U&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBHGo5rud4U&feature=related)

It was not combat.  It was killing the enemy and destroying their equipment but it was not combat.  Unless, ground forces were firing at them.  Then it would be combat.  But then, that would apply to attacking buildings noe too, no? 

Think about hunting.  Are you killing a deer?  yes.  Are you in combat with it?  no.   
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2010, 03:11:09 PM
How does vulching detract from game play?  


I was referring to gyrene's post..... not about vulching.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 12, 2010, 03:11:33 PM
It was not combat.  It was killing the enemy and destroying their equipment but it was not combat.  Unless, ground forces were firing at them.  Then it would be combat.  But then, that would apply to attacking buildings noe too, no? 

Think about hunting.  Are you killing a deer?  yes.  Are you in combat with it?  no.   
So, any mission flown by a pilot against enemy targets wasn't counted as a "combat mission", especially if they weren't getting fired at?

I have bad news for you, regardless of the mission objective or what was used on the mission, with or without getting fired at, it was combat. It's not spying or sabotage, it's actual combat.

Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 12, 2010, 03:13:43 PM
I was referring to gyrene's post..... not about vulching.
Which post and what behavior would be frowned upon because it detracts from the game? Vulching, ACM, SA...?
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 12, 2010, 03:16:50 PM
go read up the definition of combat.  Conflict is combat.  Just because your getting your taxi'd tail shorn off at the runway spawn does not disqualify you from combat.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2010, 03:22:29 PM
Which post and what behavior would be frowned upon because it detracts from the game? Vulching, ACM, SA...?

I was referring to your post saying the same old "they did it in WWII" so we can do it in the game. Not everything in WWII lends itself well to a game.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2010, 03:23:06 PM
dbl
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 12, 2010, 03:32:58 PM
I was referring to your post saying the same old "they did it in WWII" so we can do it in the game. Not everything in WWII lends itself well to a game.
I never said "they did it in WWII", but on that note, who dictates what is acceptable and what is not? For instance, if an Immelmann is a valid tactic "because it was done in WWII", then strafing airplanes on the runway of a capped airfield is a valid tactic. Aside from actual death, what does not lend itself well to a game? Realistic ballistics? Realistic damage? How about flight models? Why have parachutes?

You get what I'm saying here? Picking and choosing what is "acceptable" based on what an individual thinks because he doesn't like it is total horse hockey.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ardy123 on July 12, 2010, 03:35:49 PM
its not applicable to the game because there was no 'game' in it, there was no challenge, no 'fight'. The other side did not even get a chance to 'play'. Its like a soccer game where one team always starts 1 foot away from the other teams goal, and just kicks it in on every play.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: SPKmes on July 12, 2010, 03:36:36 PM
IMO vulching is a part of the game frustrating as yes but it was done in the wild..and is combat...what I find takes it from the game is when this is a sole source of combat for some....when there is absolutely no intention of trying to take a base they just come in with their fast planes and big guns remove ack and pick off planes...sometimes even fighting like a pack of hyenas for the one upper who is willing to offer a fight if they will just let him get up and then merrily trot off home...sometimes one or two less but that was their objective...now that's their right to do so but I don't really pose that as combat....that's like going to the supermarket and buying a fish and calling it fishing...but that's just me...


 :furious  you know who you are  :furious   :lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ardy123 on July 12, 2010, 03:42:46 PM
IMO vulching is a part of the game frustrating as yes but it was done in the wild..and is combat...what I find takes it from the game is when this is a sole source of combat for some....when there is absolutely no intention of trying to take a base they just come in with their fast planes and big guns remove ack and pick off planes...sometimes even fighting like a pack of hyenas for the one upper who is willing to offer a fight if they will just let him get up and then merrily trot off home...sometimes one or two less but that was their objective...now that's their right to do so but I don't really pose that as combat....that's like going to the supermarket and buying a fish and calling it fishing...but that's just me...

Agreed, and worse yet, when there finally is resistance, they run away to another undefended field, to vulch the 1 or 2 people who are there first to stop them.

At its core, its a very similar behavior to people who refuse to fight unless they have a numerical advantage. You all know, the guy who runs from a 1v1 to then turn and fight you when he as 10 other friendlies to help. In my book, thats not 'sport' and its barley combat. Its just cowardly behavior that detracts from the game, plain and simple.


Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 12, 2010, 03:45:08 PM
IMO vulching is a part of the game frustrating as yes but it was done in the wild..and is combat...what I find takes it from the game is when this is a sole source of combat for some....when there is absolutely no intention of trying to take a base they just come in with their fast planes and big guns remove ack and pick off planes...sometimes even fighting like a pack of hyenas for the one upper who is willing to offer a fight if they will just let him get up and then merrily trot off home...sometimes one or two less but that was their objective...now that's their right to do so but I don't really pose that as combat....that's like going to the supermarket and buying a fish and calling it fishing...but that's just me...


 :furious  you know who you are  :furious   :lol :lol :lol :lol
Agreed, that's 1d10ts gaming the game for score...and the justifications for doing it are very lame.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 12, 2010, 03:49:07 PM
I remember an old animation from years back where the cartoon guy in a cartoon spitfire at 20k spots a cartoon plane OTR and his eyes go big and he dives in!  Man that summed it up for all time!

Anyone have that one stashed away somewhere?

I think I will log on tonight and search for a lighted up vulch lamp!  Nothing quite like it :)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: dedalos on July 12, 2010, 04:12:23 PM
So, any mission flown by a pilot against enemy targets wasn't counted as a "combat mission", especially if they weren't getting fired at?

I have bad news for you, regardless of the mission objective or what was used on the mission, with or without getting fired at, it was combat. It's not spying or sabotage, it's actual combat.



Excellent, so we agree that NOE base taking is also combat  :aok
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 12, 2010, 04:17:13 PM


I think I will log on tonight and search for a lighted up vulch lamp!  Nothing quite like it :)

Vulching is fun, great fun actually.  One of my fondest vulch memories is of me and Murdr in P-38Ls using our HVARs, I only managed around 4 kills or so but Murdr was on fire that night, recall him scoring a kill with each rocket.  After we exhausted the rockets, we dove in to give some of our 20mm love to the poor helpless dweebs trying in vain to take off.

Personally, I like to wait until their wheels leave the ground before striking because it gives them a slim bit of false hope that they may not get vulched.  Destroying that small glimmer of hope is just as enjoyable as destroying their plane and waiting until they take off lessens the likelihood of them being able to ditch.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 2bighorn on July 12, 2010, 04:20:10 PM
I have bad news for you, regardless of the mission objective or what was used on the mission, with or without getting fired at, it was combat. It's not spying or sabotage, it's actual combat.

Ah yes, having a beer in otherwise empty bar now equates to bar fight?  :rofl
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 12, 2010, 04:20:59 PM
Vulching is fun, great fun actually.  One of my fondest vulch memories is of me and Murdr in P-38Ls using our HVARs, I only managed around 4 kills or so but Murdr was on fire that night, recall him scoring a kill with each rocket.  After we exhausted the rockets, we dove in to give some of our 20mm love to the poor helpless dweebs trying in vain to take off.

Personally, I like to wait until their wheels leave the ground before striking because it gives them a slim bit of false hope that they may not get vulched.  Destroying that small glimmer of hope is just as enjoyable as destroying their plane and waiting until they take off lessens the likelihood of them being able to ditch.

ack-ack

 :rofl
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 12, 2010, 04:21:45 PM
regardless of what your opinion is on vulching, it is combat whether you like it or not.  while it might not be a 'fight', it certainly is combat.

ack-ack

So, then it is avoiding a fight?

Combat and fighting are 2 separate things?

Don't get me wrong either, if vulching is taking place while trying to take a base, thats one thing.

But hovering over a base just to shoot guys on the runway as they try to get up to fight is another.

That takes about as much skill as running an NOE to an undefended base.


Oh and thanks for letting me know that my opinion is wrong. :salute
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 12, 2010, 04:24:35 PM
Ah yes, having a beer in otherwise empty bar now equates to bar fight?  :rofl

I guess you can tell by this thread who the vultures are and who the victims.   :devil


ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 12, 2010, 04:25:42 PM
Vulching aint easy.  Takes a certain "Pinache" with both energy AND timing to get it right.  But when its right its generally Golden :)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ardy123 on July 12, 2010, 04:26:36 PM
I guess you can tell by this thread who the vultures are and who the victims.   :devil


ack-ack

you should just change your sig to ...

I'm ack-ack and I can put up a good fight, but I prefer to vulch; its great for the score.  :devil
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 12, 2010, 04:28:54 PM
Vulching aint easy.  Takes a certain "Pinache" with both energy AND timing to get it right.  But when its right its generally Golden :)

 :rofl
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 12, 2010, 04:29:07 PM
I used to love sneaking in from a nearby base under the radar to surprise the vulchers. :devil

Amazing how cowardly most of them were.

They would immediatly turn tail and run when presented with actual "combat". :airplane:

You can tell by this thread who most of them are. :salute
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 12, 2010, 04:45:08 PM
So, then it is avoiding a fight?

Sometimes it can be and sometimes it's not.  It all depends how the vulch started to begin with.

Quote
Combat and fighting are 2 separate things?

Yes.  


Quote
Don't get me wrong either, if vulching is taking place while trying to take a base, thats one thing.

But hovering over a base just to shoot guys on the runway as they try to get up to fight is another.

I actually agree but there are some occasions where it's just plain fun.  For example, you're on a Dweeb Hunt and you bag your Dweeb and then decide to vulch him repeatedly just to drive and twist the knife into his gut further.  Times like those are priceless and the memories last a life time.

In short, when it's done to piss the other guy off, vulching is perfectly acceptable in my opinion.


Quote
That takes about as much skill as running an NOE to an undefended base.

Never said it took skill, anyone (well almost anyone, VANDALS collided with me as he tried to vulch me  :rofl) can vulch but when done with some creativity and flair, it's a beautiful thing to behold.


Quote
Oh and thanks for letting me know that my opinion is wrong. :salute

You're welcome, glad I could have been of some measurable assistance.  :salute


ack-ack



Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 12, 2010, 04:49:29 PM
you should just change your sig to ...

I'm ack-ack and I can put up a good fight, but I prefer to vulch; its great for the score.  :devil

That doesn't describe me at all.  1) I rarely vulch but I do enjoy the times that I do and I don't bemoan others doing it and 2) I haven't played for score since at least a decade before you started playing these types of games.  The only thing you've got accurate is my fighting prowess.  1 out of 3 ain't bad I guess though you can do better.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ardy123 on July 12, 2010, 04:54:41 PM
That doesn't describe me at all.  1) I rarely vulch but I do enjoy the times that I do and I don't bemoan others doing it and 2) I haven't played for score since at least a decade before you started playing these types of games.  The only thing you've got accurate is my fighting prowess.  1 out of 3 ain't bad I guess though you can do better.

ack-ack

well lets see...
reasons to vulch
1) to cap an airfiled
2) to pad your score
3) to pad your ego

case in point


I suppose this statement by you
Quote
I guess you can tell by this thread who the vultures are and who the victims.
you were intending to imply that you do the vulching and others saying its lame are getting killed by your vulching.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 12, 2010, 04:55:07 PM
Excellent, so we agree that NOE base taking is also combat  :aok
Hey, I never said it wasn't.



Ah yes, having a beer in otherwise empty bar now equates to bar fight?  :rofl
I get it, you're saying that if I sent a UAV somewhere and dropped bombs on a target, that wouldn't be combat since there isn't anyone physically in the plane.

Maybe fighting a fire isn't really "fighting" or "combatting" a fire either since there is no human opposition.

Nice job running all the way out into 1delta10tangoville.  :aok
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: kilo2 on July 12, 2010, 05:05:24 PM
Fun is relative to the individual.

And I vulch, pick, rope, come in with alt, fly planes with cannons, used to do noes, fly in hordes, fly against hordes, gv, toolshed,1v1 etc....
I have fun doing it all. Why would I limit my game play just because others think a certain aspect is lame.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 12, 2010, 05:05:41 PM
well lets see...
reasons to vulch
1) to cap an airfiled
2) to pad your score
3) to pad your ego

case in point


My reasons to vulch have pretty much followed the reasons it was done in AW.

1) It pisses off the other guy
2) It's fun
3) It really pisses off the other guy

Can't find any better reasons then those three.

Quote
I suppose this statement by you  you were intending to imply that you do the vulching and others saying its lame are getting killed by your vulching.

Not necessarily my vulching but you get the general idea.  

It's funny, in all the years I've been playing I can honestly say that I've rarely been vulched.  Maybe it's because I learned after the first couple of times being the victim that maybe I should take off from another base and hunt the vultures down.  It's a lesson that has served me very well in all these years.

ack-ack

Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: hitech on July 12, 2010, 05:09:48 PM
well lets see...
reasons to vulch
1) to cap an airfiled
2) to pad your score
3) to pad your ego

case in point


I suppose this statement by you  you were intending to imply that you do the vulching and others saying its lame are getting killed by your vulching.


4) To have great fun pissing of the vulchee.
5) To see if you can beet your previous record of vulches.
6) To determine exactly how long one guy will continue to take off.
7) To see how precisely you can fly a perfect circle loop and kill the guy at the bottom with the exact same speed as the previous loop.
8) To see how many head shots you can do in a row.
9) To enjoy the radio traffic that can follows.

HiTech
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: hitech on July 12, 2010, 05:11:10 PM
Dang ack you beet me to it.
HiTech
( Vulcher extraordinaire for the last 20 years )
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Masherbrum on July 12, 2010, 05:32:56 PM
4) To have great fun pissing of the vulchee.
5) To see if you can beet your previous record of vulches.
6) To determine exactly how long one guy will continue to take off.
7) To see how precisely you can fly a perfect circle loop and kill the guy at the bottom with the exact same speed as the previous loop.
8) To see how many head shots you can do in a row.
9) To enjoy the radio traffic that can follows.

HiTech


 :rofl :rofl :rofl  :rock
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 2bighorn on July 12, 2010, 06:09:48 PM
I get it, you're saying that if I sent a UAV somewhere and dropped bombs on a target, that wouldn't be combat since there isn't anyone physically in the plane.

Maybe fighting a fire isn't really "fighting" or "combatting" a fire either since there is no human opposition.

Nice job running all the way out into 1delta10tangoville.  :aok

What this game has to do with UAVs and fire fighting? Go buy boxed game if you don't like 'human' opposition...

Anyways, I have a friend who got awarded Purple Heart for thorn ripping half an inch cut in his nut sack while taking a crap. He's very proud of it...
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 12, 2010, 06:18:10 PM
What this game has to do with UAVs and fire fighting? Go buy boxed game if you don't like 'human' opposition...

Anyways, I have a friend who got awarded Purple Heart for thorn ripping half an inch cut in his nut sack while taking a crap. He's very proud of it...
Oh, you were talking about the "game"...so drinking a beer in an empty bar has something to do with the game as much as it has to do with combat?  :headscratch:

You must have been referring to combat, or fighting, being a purposeful violent conflict meant to establish dominance over the opposition regardless of what level that conflict occurs or whether it is between individuals, groups or countries against each other, natural or man made threats, ideals, philosophies or doctrines, etc... That would be the first correct thing you said.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 2bighorn on July 12, 2010, 06:28:34 PM
Oh, you were talking about the "game"...so drinking a beer in an empty bar has something to do with the game as much as it has to do with combat?  :headscratch:

Maybe you'll get it on third try... Then maybe not, so I'll help you. Combat with "opposition". Mainly human. That's the proper way of having a bar fight or even play this game.

You must have been referring to combat, or fighting, being a purposeful violent conflict meant to establish dominance over the opposition regardless of what level that conflict occurs or whether it is between individuals, groups or countries against each other, natural or man made threats, ideals, philosophies or doctrines, etc...

I wasn't, so save that for somebody else.


That would be the first correct thing you said.

http://www.aaamath.com/cntk2ax2.htm
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 12, 2010, 06:48:54 PM
Maybe you'll get it on third try... Then maybe not, so I'll help you. Combat with "opposition". Mainly human. That's the proper way of having a bar fight or even play this game.
Well, that leaves out combat in this game because there aren't any humans opposing each other in it...it's all programming code and computer generated graphics. Or are you talking about the humans who are sitting at home in front of their computer monitors manipulating the computer created aircraft and vehicles with joy sticks? Sounds like a computer generated version of a real life UAV, a human uses a computer and joystick to manipulate an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ardy123 on July 12, 2010, 08:04:55 PM
1) It pisses off the other guy   -ego (pleasure of pissing of others/ a sense of power over another)
2) It's fun
3) It really pisses off the other guy  -  -ego (pleasure of pissing of others/ a sense of power over another)


and almost all the other stated reasons were once again... to fluff ones ego.

Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Bear76 on July 12, 2010, 08:33:53 PM
and almost all the other stated reasons were once again... to fluff ones ego.



You two sound like an old married couple
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Vinkman on July 13, 2010, 08:26:07 AM

But vulching is fun...nothing pisses off the other guy as quickly as vulching him, well, maybe shooting his chute.  Frankly, vulching is also one of the most easiest things to prevent, just don't up from a base that is being actively vulched.  It is really that simple but of course, people will find whining about it to be far more easier.

ack-ack

But it's not very sporting. A game is supposed to be fun. Empty victories that required no skill to achieve are worthless. Since winning means nothing, since score means nothing, all that is left is the fun of the competition. If you begin a race with a headstart, are you happy you won the race? Where is the fun in that?

Different situations call for different behavior. It easy to understand the situational changes and differences at any given time in the game. Vulching seems OK, even required, if you are trying to take a base. But when 4 bandits are hovering overhead, having shot out the ack, and make no attempt to level the town or arrange for troops, what is the point of vulching? Sure I can go to another base, I can also log off and cut my grass, but what fun is that?  Here's a suggestion, I take off and try to climb to an effective alt and you wait and jump in when the situation seems close to fair. Then if I win, one of the other 3 bandits can take his turn. If I get killed I'll re-up. We can do this for hours if you like. Wouldn't we all find that fun? If you vulch me I will log after the first one, and you can fight your wingman.

The game is dynamic and fair fights can't be expected at all times, but a little restraint in unfair situations would go a long way to making the game better for all.

It surprises me how many seem to revel in a lopsided vulchfest, and will endevor to create unfair situations for the sake of ringing up easy, empty victories. No offense Ack-Ack, but I just don't see the fun in an unfair fight.

On that note I would like to thank Shuffler and Soulyss and some of the other 38 aces that rolled into a field on Sunday. They stayed between 5-8K and just far enough away that we could take off and get some alt. We had about 5 uppers taking on about 5 of them. They were coordinated, we weren't. They probably got 10 kills each, and I managed to get soulyss isolated long enough to kill him once. But this 5v5 went on for about an 45min to an hour. Sure I was getting my elevators handed to me but I was having a blast, Because they were giving us a fair chance.

Fair play is better play.  :salute






 
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: dedalos on July 13, 2010, 08:39:15 AM
4) To have great fun pissing of the vulchee.
5) To see if you can beet your previous record of vulches.
6) To determine exactly how long one guy will continue to take off.
7) To see how precisely you can fly a perfect circle loop and kill the guy at the bottom with the exact same speed as the previous loop.
8) To see how many head shots you can do in a row.
9) To enjoy the radio traffic that can follows.

HiTech


Pffft, vulcher  :lol
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: dedalos on July 13, 2010, 08:43:17 AM
Maybe you'll get it on third try...

Really, has that ever worked?  :lol  This guy does not go fishing, he is going in combat with the fish  :rofl 
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Glen69 on July 13, 2010, 08:59:10 AM
Most of the "NOE crowd" have been getting their butts handed to them Boner.   You rarely see them and their "whack-a-mole" BS in the Arenas.   Now that they are forced to "fight", you see them dropping like flies. 
  :huh We must not be fighting each other, i've personally been apart of a number off successful base takes, 5 in 5 hours or so. Mind you, i'm not a vulcher, i'll finish off every fighter out of the ack first.

As for upping from a vulched base i'll do it for the satisfaction of reppelling the vulchers all the way back to thier home base.  :aok
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 13, 2010, 09:09:34 AM
But it's not very sporting.  
I'm not in this game for sport.  I log in for one reason and one reason only.  To put to DEATH all red toons.  If you are logged on and in game then you are protected by NO RULES.  You are fair game.  If you are any good you will avoid being killed by me and if you are lucky, and I screw up, you will kill me.  There it is.

but I was having a blast, Because they were giving us a fair chance.
Lol, if you think those guys were giving you a "fair chance" I would suggest you think again.  They were just pulling you away from the ack, maintaining advantage all the way and handing you yours like the pros they are.  The good news is you had fun.  Thats the spirit :)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: CAP1 on July 13, 2010, 09:22:14 AM
it looks like this has turned into a "find the fights" talk.

 go attack a base. even if you just fly around inside the dar ring, someone will come looking for ya.

 in mw, me and a couple of others created a nifty little fight over v64. it was fun, although not very long.

 the fun in these arenas is what each one of us makes it. nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 13, 2010, 09:28:53 AM
and almost all the other stated reasons were once again... to fluff ones ego.
Lol, and your point is?  It almost sounds like you are envious.......

Speaking for myself: I get zero satisfaction when my toon gets killed.  OTOH, I get a LOT of satisfaction when my toon kills your toon.  Thats what I do. Thats why I log on.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Soulyss on July 13, 2010, 11:12:43 AM
On that note I would like to thank Shuffler and Soulyss and some of the other 38 aces that rolled into a field on Sunday. They stayed between 5-8K and just far enough away that we could take off and get some alt. We had about 5 uppers taking on about 5 of them. They were coordinated, we weren't. They probably got 10 kills each, and I managed to get soulyss isolated long enough to kill him once. But this 5v5 went on for about an 45min to an hour. Sure I was getting my elevators handed to me but I was having a blast, Because they were giving us a fair chance.

Fair play is better play.  :salute

Thanks Vink, I know we had fun on our side.  When you're attacking like that and fighting near the other sides field I find it to be a bit of a balancing act.  Being that close to their field you have to keep a bit of alt because at the drop of a hat the numbers coming off the field can go from 1-2 uppers to 5-10 uppers so it's easy to get overwhelmed with little to no warning.  

Personally I don't find vulching to be particularly fun anymore, but I did once upon a time and generally don't fault people for engaging in it, it's easy for me to see the appeal.  Nowadays I may grab a kill or two then usual putter off somewhere else.  It's pretty rare to be surprised by a vulch and in that way it sort of takes participation by both sides to make it happen.  I know it's a fine line but I like to at least let them get a little speed and alt under their wings before I attack.  I certainly have no qualms about attacking from a significant advantage (I know I spend enough time on the other side of the equation to appreciate an advantage when I have one. :)), but it's my interest to keep them upping and coming back for more, to keep the battle going they should feel like they have a fighting chance each time they roll down the runway.  

Of course I have little interest in actually taking the airfield, if that were my goal then I would likely be more prone to engage in prolonged vulching.  In many ways it's preferable to the attackers than taking down the hangers since it allows the field to be put to immediate use, and it's amazing how quickly an La-7 or other plane can get up and nail a couple troops before they get to the map room.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 13, 2010, 12:22:02 PM
But it's not very sporting. A game is supposed to be fun.

Vulching is fun, well, not for the one being vulched but who gives a rat's bellybutton what he thinks?  I surely don't.


Quote
Here's a suggestion, I take off and try to climb to an effective alt and you wait and jump in when the situation seems close to fair. Then if I win, one of the other 3 bandits can take his turn. If I get killed I'll re-up. We can do this for hours if you like. Wouldn't we all find that fun? If you vulch me I will log after the first one, and you can fight your wingman.

Well, I did try that with you the other night and shot you down and all you did was whine.  Frankly, you're rather lucky that we weren't near your base because I would have vulched you just to make you whine some more.  Now, that would have been a lot of fun.

Quote
The game is dynamic and fair fights can't be expected at all times, but a little restraint in unfair situations would go a long way to making the game better for all.

LOL!  Vulching has yet to be shown as a negative towards the game play.  Even the owner and developer of this game enjoys vulching and was one of the most infamous vulchers in AW.

Quote
It surprises me how many seem to revel in a lopsided vulchfest, and will endevor to create unfair situations for the sake of ringing up easy, empty victories. No offense Ack-Ack, but I just don't see the fun in an unfair fight.

So, you coming in with an altitude advantage and picking others while they fight is a 'fair fight'? 


ack-ack
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 13, 2010, 12:48:33 PM
The very first time I played any online game was with Warbirds.  I still remember the very first time I logged into the arena online with about 100 other people.  I was trying to get my engine started but every damned time I spawned on the runway I was immediately killed.  I recall looking out my views and seeing all the planes doing circles over my head.  I was trying to up in the middle of a giant vulchfest. This feat of dying OTR happened at least twenty two times, TWENTY TWO TIMES, before I finally had the thought of going to a place "less busy".  That was my first experience in WBs.  I recall it fondly :)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Bronk on July 13, 2010, 04:14:30 PM
Vulchin??? Pffft just lucky we can't fire bomber guns on the ground..... Bloodpig anyone.

Now where is the A-26 parked. :D
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: uptown on July 13, 2010, 05:22:29 PM
If you get vulched more then once at the same field.......it's your own fault.  :old:
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: CAP1 on July 13, 2010, 06:23:04 PM
If you get vulched more then once at the same field.......it's your own fault.  :old:

ya know? i rolled a 38j, 'cause i thought i had more time than i did to get into the air. i see this f4u coming in haulin arse. i think " oh great....i effed up". pull it off the ground, and start a turn while i'm still in ground effect.......expecting to see him saddling me up. but what does he do? makes a pass at the radar tower, misses, bleeds all his e turning for another pass, lettimg me get in close.........i didn't get any rounds in him, but he died on that pass, just before the tower went down.
 what the hell was that? same guy(i think) at another field, trying to not fight, and just pork the base. first in a corsair......i got him once or twice, and pangea got him once or twice. he tried running in a ponyb........why didn't the dude wanna fight? or better yet, if he didn't wanna fight, why did he keep going to a field where he knew there'd be fighters waiting?
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: dedalos on July 14, 2010, 08:39:08 AM
ya know? i rolled a 38j, 'cause i thought i had more time than i did to get into the air. i see this f4u coming in haulin arse. i think " oh great....i effed up". pull it off the ground, and start a turn while i'm still in ground effect.......expecting to see him saddling me up. but what does he do? makes a pass at the radar tower, misses, bleeds all his e turning for another pass, lettimg me get in close.........i didn't get any rounds in him, but he died on that pass, just before the tower went down.
 what the hell was that? same guy(i think) at another field, trying to not fight, and just pork the base. first in a corsair......i got him once or twice, and pangea got him once or twice. he tried running in a ponyb........why didn't the dude wanna fight? or better yet, if he didn't wanna fight, why did he keep going to a field where he knew there'd be fighters waiting?

He was in combat  :lol 

Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 14, 2010, 11:01:38 AM
He was in combat  :lol 
You're right. Next time you up your UAT (unmanned aerial toon) and pork the ords on a base, as long as the toonville war between the chess pieces rages on in the arena, it's combat even if you consider it a milkrun. You can log it as a "combat mission".
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: dedalos on July 14, 2010, 11:12:45 AM
You're right. Next time you up your UAT (unmanned aerial toon) and pork the ords on a base, as long as the toonville war between the chess pieces rages on in the arena, it's combat even if you consider it a milkrun. You can log it as a "combat mission".

It would make a fun game.  HT should implement it  :lol
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 14, 2010, 11:54:38 AM
It would make a fun game.  HT should implement it  :lol
You should drink more coffee or get some reading comprehension lessons. I'll see if I can dummy it down a bit.

You are not physically inside a WWII airplane piloting it, even though you may want to think you are. You are sitting in a chair at home pretending to fly a cartoon airplane in a virtual environment that is projected on your computer screen. Therefore, that cartoon plane you are guiding around the virtual environment is in reality unmanned.

When you log into the virtual cartoon world created on one of the arenas to fly your unmanned cartoon airplane, there is a cartoon war going on between 3 separate factions. They all want to shoot each others unmanned cartoon airplanes down and take over each others cartoon bases to "win the war".

Once you fully comprehend that, I'll attempt to teach you the concept of combat in war without the need for direct interaction between the combatants.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Ardy123 on July 14, 2010, 12:46:01 PM
Lol, and your point is?  It almost sounds like you are envious.......

Speaking for myself: I get zero satisfaction when my toon gets killed.  OTOH, I get a LOT of satisfaction when my toon kills your toon.  Thats what I do. Thats why I log on.

My point is, and it relates to the other thread, thats a hallow sense of reasoning, there is no 'accomplished' goal.  Sure you killed the other guy but did you 'earn' the kill or are you looking for 2 sec mindless satisfaction? Personally, its a lot more fun and feels much more rewarding, if I had to put effort into killing the other guy, instead of just Vulching. As I said before, the only 'objective' that would benefit from such behavior would be a to take a base, other than that, its plain ego fluffing. Did you as a stick get better from doing it? Did you gain anything other than an ego boost?


Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 2bighorn on July 14, 2010, 01:05:18 PM
You should drink more coffee or get some reading comprehension lessons. I'll see if I can dummy it down a bit.

You are not physically inside a WWII airplane piloting it, even though you may want to think you are. You are sitting in a chair at home pretending to fly a cartoon airplane in a virtual environment that is projected on your computer screen. Therefore, that cartoon plane you are guiding around the virtual environment is in reality unmanned.

When you log into the virtual cartoon world created on one of the arenas to fly your unmanned cartoon airplane, there is a cartoon war going on between 3 separate factions. They all want to shoot each others unmanned cartoon airplanes down and take over each others cartoon bases to "win the war".

Once you fully comprehend that, I'll attempt to teach you the concept of combat in war without the need for direct interaction between the combatants.

1.) There are no cartoon airplanes in AH
2.) Do not confuse combat with warfare
3.) Do not try to teach something you know little about
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: gyrene81 on July 14, 2010, 01:09:42 PM
1.) There are no cartoon airplanes in AH
There are no real airplanes in AH. So whatever you think you're flying in AH, it's a drawn image...a.k.a. cartoon.


2.) Do not confuse combat with warfare
Do not confuse lack of interaction between combatants as not being combat.


3.) Do not try to teach something you know little about
I've forgotten more about warfare and combat than you're going to learn.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 2bighorn on July 14, 2010, 01:32:34 PM
There are no real airplanes in AH. So whatever you think you're flying in AH, it's a drawn image...a.k.a. cartoon.

 :rofl


Do not confuse lack of interaction between combatants as not being combat.

Be nice and before you argue, check at least definition of combat.


I've forgotten more about warfare and combat than you're going to learn.

Good for you. Now try to remember at least tiny bit of what you've forgotten. Meanwhile I'll learn some more.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 14, 2010, 01:34:30 PM
Quote from: gyrene81 link=topic=292275.msg3728220#msg3728220 date=1279130982
Do not confuse lack of interaction between combatants as not being combat.
[/quote



After all the hubub about the new dar and Noes attacking "undefended" bases, this is probably one of the most ironic statements I've seen yet.

It about sums up the mentality of these BBs.  IE: If you were to believe the reasons for the new dar, then this statement would make absolutely no sense.

I read earlier someone said that "vulching has no negative effect on the gameplay" , now that would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: dedalos on July 14, 2010, 02:04:13 PM
You should drink more coffee or get some reading comprehension lessons. I'll see if I can dummy it down a bit.

You are not physically inside a WWII airplane piloting it, even though you may want to think you are. You are sitting in a chair at home pretending to fly a cartoon airplane in a virtual environment that is projected on your computer screen. Therefore, that cartoon plane you are guiding around the virtual environment is in reality unmanned.

When you log into the virtual cartoon world created on one of the arenas to fly your unmanned cartoon airplane, there is a cartoon war going on between 3 separate factions. They all want to shoot each others unmanned cartoon airplanes down and take over each others cartoon bases to "win the war".

Once you fully comprehend that, I'll attempt to teach you the concept of combat in war without the need for direct interaction between the combatants.

 :rofl I am sure you can teach me a lot of things.  For example, how to take a joke, see the humor in a post, how to read and understand posts etc.

So, let me ask you a question.  What do you think my point is in this thread?
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Vinkman on July 14, 2010, 03:03:52 PM
Well, I did try that with you the other night and shot you down and all you did was whine.  Frankly, you're rather lucky that we weren't near your base because I would have vulched you just to

You mistake my banter for whining. Must I really type "lol" at the end of every sarcastic comment?  [I whine to my county mates on vox, gave up doing it on 200 months ago] But you are right you were the lone vulcher. My point is if the others did that too, you would have quickly found yourselves alone, per your own advice for us to go to another field. This plan results in time wasted and no fun for anyone. in my opinion that is not good plan.

Quote

So, you coming in with an altitude advantage and picking others while they fight is a 'fair fight'? 

No, picking is not very 'fair', but again falls under the 'what is the current situtation' heading. In a furball, it's fine. If you come across two guys in a nice dog fight and drop in a pick the bandit? Your friendly and the bandit will be pissed, and with good reason I think. But as you stated quite clearly, pissing people off is your objective. Mission accomplished.  :salute

...oh wait....LOL.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: yanksfan on July 14, 2010, 11:34:15 PM
So is an NOE base take then since there is ack and someone upping sometimes lol

some of those trees can be really tough,,,and i have always said the ground in AH is modeled way to high,,lost many a ride with poorly modeled ground which leaps into air destroying my plane and ruining my score,, i think high tech should make the ground soft and bouncey,,the trees should all be removed and cones should be placed around all buildings with bright flashing lights so they can be avoided..

and that Dedalous guy,,he's pretty scary too,,,maybe cones and strobe lights around him too,,,ack ack,,,well he can be scary but i find that when i do hit the ground,,he's right behind me,,so no biggie....

did i mention score is a waste of time,,just go have fun...
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: rod367th on July 15, 2010, 07:48:30 AM
Can you see the vulchers from the tower? Yessss.
Can you move to another field? Yesssss.
And who should suffer for your choice?

HiTech

watch somtime from tower, all you'll see getting vulched is new players. maybe 1 vet trying to time lift off when newbies dying. Think for sec new players thinking this game sucks u can't even get in air. this is true cause the type all the time "Need help were being killed on runway,NEED HELP NOW! Vh dead hangers about dead base deacked up now to save base". And I think some of vulchers might have friend or squadie upping other side cause they up bombers bail out of them as guys ping only and rinse and repeat.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 15, 2010, 01:47:26 PM
You know rod you got to use your brains in this game.  That goes for n00bs too.  I see way too much whining and complaining lately from people who should know better.  Its just ridiculous.  People moaning about fairness and expecting others behave in a manner that benefits themselves.  All in a war game.  Just too much whining.  Its like the red planet estrogen in here.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Vinkman on July 15, 2010, 02:14:09 PM
You know rod you got to use your brains in this game.  That goes for n00bs too.  I see way too much whining and complaining lately from people who should know better.  Its just ridiculous.  People moaning about fairness and expecting others behave in a manner that benefits themselves.  All in a war game.  Just too much whining.  Its like the red planet estrogen in here.

You're probably right about too much whining, but your point about "expecting others to behave in a way that benefits themselves" missed the point. The advice and argument for the restraint from vulching is to benefit both parties.

you can lead a horse to water.....


oh wait...LOL
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: guncrasher on July 15, 2010, 03:01:58 PM
:rofl


Be nice and before you argue, check at least definition of combat.


Good for you. Now try to remember at least tiny bit of what you've forgotten. Meanwhile I'll learn some more.

burn...

semp
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: RTHolmes on July 15, 2010, 04:12:51 PM
I think some of vulchers might have friend or squadie upping other side cause they up bombers bail out of them as guys ping only and rinse and repeat.

 :noid
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Dead Man Flying on July 15, 2010, 04:25:50 PM
Reputation is the only currency that truly matters in Aces High.  Fighter score... eh, it's pretty good for what it tries to do, and the fact that it disproportionately rewards vulching is a good thing, not a bad thing.


Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: guncrasher on July 15, 2010, 06:09:15 PM
Yup so true.  If you log in and more than 2 people that are not in your squad say hi,  then you are an awesome. Player.


Semp
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 16, 2010, 03:25:09 PM
Yup so true.  If you log in and more than 2 people that are not in your squad say hi,  then you are an awesome. Player.


Semp
One of the reasons I stopped playing in LW was because I could play every day in there and rarely ever get shot down by the same player twice.
Had a hard time developing motivational grudges.....
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Bronk on July 16, 2010, 05:09:31 PM
One of the reasons I stopped playing in LW was because I could play every day in there and rarely ever get shot down by the same player twice.
Had a hard time developing motivational grudges.....
Well, when you pick-n-run and never slow down. ;)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: NCLawman on July 16, 2010, 07:10:35 PM

Fair play is better play.  :salute
 

FAIR???   The Fair is some place where you eat peanuts and step in monkey poop.  You want FAIR, buy the ticket and try not to step in the poop!  :bolt:

 :rofl

<Salute>  Sorry I couldn't resist.   
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: ink on July 16, 2010, 08:02:31 PM
I am surprised by the fact that HTC thinks Vulching is cool. surprised and disappointed.


 on the other hand I am NOT surprised ACK thinks its an "art-form" considering the self righteous/holier then thou/Ive been flying this game since before you even began playing these type games/illusions of grandeur/ECT ECT,   drivel I have read from him.


vulching is the lamest activity one can do in AH.
plain and simple no matter how ya wanna slice.

it's like starting a game of chess, and your opponent can only use pawns while you get all queens.

Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: kvuo75 on July 16, 2010, 08:04:23 PM
If you get vulched more then once at the same field.......it's your own fault.  :old:

yeap.. and as much as i hate vulchers, and try to ruin their vulch with ack,  I am the first to vulch if given the opportunity.

now on the other hand, when there's 20 guys orbiting a deacked -- and all hangars down and smoking on the field, looking for a nonexistant vulch..  :rolleyes:

the best way to stop vulchers is to quit feeding them.



Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Bear76 on July 16, 2010, 09:31:28 PM
Yup so true.  If you log in and more than 2 people that are not in your squad say hi,  then you are an awesome. Player.


Semp

Ease up Semp. Levi earned and deserves his rep.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 17, 2010, 01:01:22 AM
Ease up Semp. Levi earned and deserves his rep.
was levi the guy that flew spit5s exclusively and turned his spit into a great black hole that sucked in all nearby fighters?
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Greebo on July 17, 2010, 01:46:31 AM
Vulching is like fishing with dynamite, effective but so easy it is boring. However upping from a vulched field is a known risk to all those who do it and they only have themselves to blame if (when) they become another statistic. Moaning about it is dumb, just up from an adjacent field and come in with alt.

A score system should reward what is difficult and penalize what is easy if it is to mean anything at all. That is why I like the idea of biasing score according to the numbers of friendlies and enemies in range at the time of the kill. You can still swarm a field and get a few vulch kills but it won't mean much score wise. But if a vulchee gets a kill on one of the horde they will get rewarded. In time, the score-obsessed will seek out more even fights to keep their scores high and the furball seekers will be therefore more likely to find a more even fight. Currently the MA tends to degenerate into one or two huge vulchfests, everyone seeks safety in numbers.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: cattb on July 17, 2010, 02:19:34 AM
The very first time I played any online game was with Warbirds.  I still remember the very first time I logged into the arena online with about 100 other people.  I was trying to get my engine started but every damned time I spawned on the runway I was immediately killed.  I recall looking out my views and seeing all the planes doing circles over my head.  I was trying to up in the middle of a giant vulchfest. This feat of dying OTR happened at least twenty two times, TWENTY TWO TIMES, before I finally had the thought of going to a place "less busy".  That was my first experience in WBs.  I recall it fondly :)
LOL the first time I played AW I was vulched by some guy in a 51 many times while I was trying to figure out how to take off. The name of that person which I don't remember anymore was etched in my mind at that time. A couple months or few months later I shot down the person that had so much fun vulching me. Felt rewarding at the time.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: ink on July 17, 2010, 04:54:53 AM
Vulching is like fishing with dynamite, effective but so easy it is boring. However upping from a vulched field is a known risk to all those who do it and they only have themselves to blame if (when) they become another statistic. Moaning about it is dumb, just up from an adjacent field and come in with alt.

A score system should reward what is difficult and penalize what is easy if it is to mean anything at all. That is why I like the idea of biasing score according to the numbers of friendlies and enemies in range at the time of the kill. You can still swarm a field and get a few vulch kills but it won't mean much score wise. But if a vulchee gets a kill on one of the horde they will get rewarded. In time, the score-obsessed will seek out more even fights to keep their scores high and the furball seekers will be therefore more likely to find a more even fight. Currently the MA tends to degenerate into one or two huge vulchfests, everyone seeks safety in numbers.

this is by far the best idea of all that I have read to improve AH :aok
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Crash Orange on July 17, 2010, 05:20:44 AM
vulching is the lamest activity one can do in AH.

Oh, come on, it is FAR from the lamest activity. Vulching is (a) not dishonest, (b) easily avoidable by the other guy, and (c) sometimes serves a legitimate purpose.

Offhand I'd say killing shades is the lamest, followed by moving CVs to a convenient spot and taking control so no one can turn them while your friends bomb them. I'm sure there must be a good dozen other things lamer than vulching.

Now vulching and then thinking it makes you a good pilot is lame, but I don't think anyone here is saying that. It goes on your score, sure, but so do all those even lamer dishonest things. There's no way for score to be a perfect reflection of skill. There's always going to be some way to game the game if you really want to.

I get vulched a lot trying to defend fields, but I don't complain about it. If you don't want to get vulched, up somewhere else. The up side is that even if you get vulched two or three times before finally staying up, you're getting back in action a lot faster than flying in from 20 miles away, and if the enemies are flying in from that far away too, you'll eventually win the battle of attrition and get the fight back to a more even basis. You just need to be able to judge when you might get up and/or kill an attacker after a few tries and when it's truly hopeless. OTOH, you're padding the vulchers' scores. But then we're back to: who cares about score? You and they both know they didn't really beat you fighting.

And if they're just vulching and not trying to take the base, why even consider upping there? Go somewhere else and they'll get bored and have to go find a real fight.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: 1Boner on July 17, 2010, 08:55:31 AM
I don't mind guys vulching any more than I minded Noe attacks on "undefended" bases.

Although IMO vulchers are avoiding fights just as much as the Noe guys were.

And I don't think they should be awarded any type of score in "fighter" category.

They aren't really fighting anything.

Score vulches in attack mode only.

No one is "punished", they simply have to up in attack mode before going off to "attack" things on the ground.

Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Yeager on July 17, 2010, 10:28:57 AM
Vulching is the equivalent of slapping someone who cant slap back.  Its like a squeakslap where the person being vulched is being forced into the doggie position.  It can be very satisfying to be on top.
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: Dead Man Flying on July 17, 2010, 11:56:02 AM
was levi the guy that flew spit5s exclusively and turned his spit into a great black hole that sucked in all nearby fighters?

I flew Typhoons and Tempests too.  :)
Title: Re: Fighter Score system
Post by: ink on July 17, 2010, 02:36:11 PM
Oh, come on, it is FAR from the lamest activity. Vulching is (a) not dishonest, (b) easily avoidable by the other guy, and (c) sometimes serves a legitimate purpose.

Offhand I'd say killing shades is the lamest, followed by moving CVs to a convenient spot and taking control so no one can turn them while your friends bomb them. I'm sure there must be a good dozen other things lamer than vulching.

Now vulching and then thinking it makes you a good pilot is lame, but I don't think anyone here is saying that. It goes on your score, sure, but so do all those even lamer dishonest things. There's no way for score to be a perfect reflection of skill. There's always going to be some way to game the game if you really want to.

I get vulched a lot trying to defend fields, but I don't complain about it. If you don't want to get vulched, up somewhere else. The up side is that even if you get vulched two or three times before finally staying up, you're getting back in action a lot faster than flying in from 20 miles away, and if the enemies are flying in from that far away too, you'll eventually win the battle of attrition and get the fight back to a more even basis. You just need to be able to judge when you might get up and/or kill an attacker after a few tries and when it's truly hopeless. OTOH, you're padding the vulchers' scores. But then we're back to: who cares about score? You and they both know they didn't really beat you fighting.

And if they're just vulching and not trying to take the base, why even consider upping there? Go somewhere else and they'll get bored and have to go find a real fight.

I do stand corrected, you are right, I did not think about that other "lame" stuff, killing shade accounts and what not...ya that is pretty damn lame and worse then vulching.


I flew Typhoons and Tempests too.  :)


You should put away that WoW, and come back to AH it's been said you are/were one of the greatest, so get back in here so I can slap that spit 5 around :banana: :banana: :banana:

seriously  What would you say you were better at Targeting or ACM?
my guess is your gonna say targeting, this is what I need to work on, hence I need someone worthy to shoot down :D

so get back in here :salute