Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: FireBall on July 18, 2010, 07:43:56 PM
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Is there any way the 190D-13 can be added to the plane set? I think it would make a really good addition. Make it a perk plane like the Spitfire XIV, Tempest, F4U-4 and F4U-1C. It would also give the guys that fly axis rides a propeller driven perk plane.
The D-13 loses the two machine guns and adds a 20mm that fires through the spinner. The engine is a later model of the D9’s “Jumo213F”
The only changes to the aircraft model would be the upper nose cowl, which is now smooth
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They could add this...
The could add alot more pertinent planes that saw combat too.
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it was known that 17 D-13s were more than likely built, but only two were known to be in service
Which one do you want?
wrongway
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The good one !
30 were built and 20 entered service with JG26
but that's not the point. It would be a good air plane for very little time spent making it in game.
I do not know the answer to this but how many TA152's entered service?
We have that in game.
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Which one do you want?
wrongway
White 3 :D
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I know I have done it before, but I vote that we as a community stop playing the Ta152 card whenever production numbers are questioned, yes we get it, it doesnt have to have seen large numbers too be added, stick to its service records, not to how many of them there were, now, did the 190 D13 see any combat? ie did it ever shoot anything or get shot down itself?
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What would it give you beyond the D-9?
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an alternative to this would be the D12, it still has the wing root 20mm it removes the 13mm guns in the cowling but adds as 30mm center prop hub, while the d13 only had a 20mm. However the d12 it seems never saw combat.
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I think two long-nose 190s in the game are good enough. You don't see HTC adding every single production model there was in WWII.
A single "D" series edition is good enough, the D-9 is/was a respectable plane, learn to fly it.
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The good one !
30 were built and 20 entered service with JG26
but that's not the point. It would be a good air plane for very little time spent making it in game.
I do not know the answer to this but how many TA152's entered service?
We have that in game.
Not so much how many but the fact that they flew as a squadron at squadron strength.
wrongway
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I think two long-nose 190s in the game are good enough. You don't see HTC adding every single production model there was in WWII.
A single "D" series edition is good enough, the D-9 is/was a respectable plane, learn to fly it.
You think 7 Spitfires, 5 P-47s and 5 F4U's is enough? People probably should have learned to fly what there was of them until other plane sets were built up more, but I guess that rule doesn't apply to American and British aircraft.
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You think 7 Spitfires, 5 P-47s and 5 F4U's is enough? People probably should have learned to fly what there was of them until other plane sets were built up more, but I guess that rule doesn't apply to American and British aircraft.
Do you and Karnak have some sort of telepathy going on here? All I'm saying is that the 190 series is one of the largest axis planesets. I would much prefer a new German bomber, Japanese or Soviet fighter. That's all.
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well 6 109's 5 190s and there respectable variants, the 109 190 group is pretty complete, though I do agree with you about 7 spitfires, and the P47s are a bit much, was the M really that needed?
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I always like any wish that wants to add to the axis planes, but only when the wish includes the Me410.
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Rather see more Soviet and Japanese planes.
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well 6 109's 5 190s and there respectable variants, the 109 190 group is pretty complete, though I do agree with you about 7 spitfires, and the P47s are a bit much, was the M really that needed?
Actually its not, in that we have an A5 with A4-ish top speed performance and our only other A is the piggish A-8...The 190 lineup could use more additions of the radial engine, rather than inline variety. But no one seems to really care either about fixing the A-5's slowness or adding more potent As, so I doubt it will happen soon.
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A-9 :pray
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Rather see more Soviet and Japanese planes.
That and French, Italy, Finland and oh, the B-29.
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well 6 109's 5 190s and there respectable variants, the 109 190 group is pretty complete, though I do agree with you about 7 spitfires, and the P47s are a bit much, was the M really that needed?
You've got 6 Spitfires and 6 109s. The Seafire is essentially a modified Spitfire V. As there was no carrier for the 109T, it makes little sense to add it.
The hard part is when the planes are the ones that appeal to you, then there should be more. But if they don't, then adding more is senseless.
The issue in my opinion comes down to adding birds that make sense and can cover both the scenario/special events stuff and be fairly viable MA birds.
Do I think we need more 190s and 109s? Nope. Do I think we need more Spits and Jugs? Nope.
Would it be nice to have a Ki-43 and Betty to help with the Japanese plane set and early war PTO scenarios? Absolutely.
Would I like a Beaufighter, Me-410 and a Russian twin for attack birds? Yes please.
For purely scenario use, an He-111 would look nice for the B of B.
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You've got 6 Spitfires and 6 109s. The Seafire is essentially a modified Spitfire V. As there was no carrier for the 109T, it makes little sense to add it.
The hard part is when the planes are the ones that appeal to you, then there should be more. But if they don't, then adding more is senseless.
The issue in my opinion comes down to adding birds that make sense and can cover both the scenario/special events stuff and be fairly viable MA birds.
Do I think we need more 190s and 109s? Nope. Do I think we need more Spits and Jugs? Nope.
Would it be nice to have a Ki-43 and Betty to help with the Japanese plane set and early war PTO scenarios? Absolutely.
Would I like a Beaufighter, Me-410 and a Russian twin for attack birds? Yes please.
For purely scenario use, an He-111 would look nice for the B of B.
I completely agree with every thing you just said. However the thing is adding variants of already existing models, as far as i understand, is relatively easy since most of the work is already done for you...I could be wrong however, but from what i read here that seems to be the general consensus.
Like the latest addition the p47M Some think it was unnecessary, i disagree. Thing is to make that plane didnt take the time it would have taken to produce a whole new model. The d13 would probably be in the middle of the D9 and ta152 which i think would be great b/c the ta152 is quick difficult and not as easy to fly as the d9 the d13 would be a perfect compromise between weapons and general performance, from what i know.
In short it is much easier to add in a plane where most of it already exists, rather than from scratch. dont think that in the time it take to make another 109 variant that they could have spent that time to make a whole new plane.
however the bf410 me410 whatever would be awesome.
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Like the latest addition the p47M Some think it was unnecessary, i disagree.
Care to share with the rest of us not so enlightened how the P-47M was "necessary"?
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Yes, I too would like to hear why adding the M was such a big improvement, as for guppy,I agree, in my opinion, unless the variant of a plane is vastly different from the one we already have, I don't think any more variants should be added until we get the new planes that we are missing, and the old ones we have updated,i don't know off the top of my head, but are close to 50% of the planes in game not below AH2 standards?
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Care to share with the rest of us not so enlightened how the P-47M was "necessary"?
Considering the amount of work they had to put in, it filled a gap, its a strictly fighter version of the p47, its just one more option for the customer.
Technically no plane is really necessary any more since we seem to be getting by with what we currently have now... but that isnt the point.
Why do we need more japanese planes its not like any of them couldnt fill a need that isnt already covered by what we have now at least for the main arena. But if you want it for diversity then yea it is necessary, see their are two ways of looking at it.
Whether or not they are "necessary" is objective and really dosent apply to a wish list.
Again the time it takes to make a new variant of a plane that already exists seems to be much easier than adding a plane completely from scratch, dont think that because that worked on the p47M that they could have produced a who whole new plane in that time instead... its probably even easier than updating a plane to the ah2 standard, so dont consider it as time wasted.
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Just because it is strictly a fighter version, does not make it any different then the other P-47s, are you saying that the others are not as capable of fighters as it? when I do fly P47's, I prefer to fly others as they perform the same ( for the amount of fighting I do in them) but the other 47's can carry bombs, and with the D-13, why add it when the 152 has better guns, and is fantastic at altitude
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what about the Fw190D-1 instead of the -13? Talk about a bomber hunter....loaded with guns.
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My take on this wish is someone is not really wishing for a particular plane but rather something that has a bazillion cannons on it.
ack-ack
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Considering the amount of work they had to put in, it filled a gap, its a strictly fighter version of the p47, its just one more option for the customer.
There was no gap to be filled by the M model, contrary to what some believe.
More Japanese aircraft are necessary, more so than the P-47M, not just for MA use but for especially for special events. Same goes for Italian and Russian aircraft.
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Care to share with the rest of us not so enlightened how the P-47M was "necessary"?
Well, I could point out it gave us what amounts to a "D" Jug with 70" inches of MAP available on WEP-which most of them were rodded to put out anyway.
And, I think the lack of any 190A variant that is as potent in MW/LW as the best radial butcherbirds actually were IS a gap.
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You think 7 Spitfires, 5 P-47s and 5 F4U's is enough? People probably should have learned to fly what there was of them until other plane sets were built up more, but I guess that rule doesn't apply to American and British aircraft.
You're way off base there. The Spitfire, Bf109 and Fw190 have many versions because they fought the whole war. The same is true, to the extent it can be, of the P-47 and F4U for the Americans.
None of the aircraft you listed were piddling little insignificances like the Fw190D-13.
You ask for the Fw190A-2 and I'll rally behind it. Ask for the Fw190A-6 or A-9 and I'll keep my peace. People who ask for wonder weapons used in tiny numbers over the aircraft that fought the war get nothing but my disdain.
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You ask for the Fw190A-2 and I'll rally behind it. Ask for the Fw190A-6 or A-9 and I'll keep my peace.
Ahem, Karnak, you already have what almost is a very early 190 in terms of performance...its just labeled the A-5.
A later A would never be an uber-bird but it would do the Focke-Wulf name the justice it deserves in Mid and Late war setups.
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Which later 190A are you talking about? And how would it differ from the A8 that was there til the end?
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I think the A8 does just fine for mid war and late war set-ups. Too bad the noobs cant exploit the strengths of the A8. Instead they resort to the classic head-on, which is easily avoidable if you know what youre doing.
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The 190D-13 did see limited production. But in fairness so did all late war Axis aircraft. Their factories were being bombed around the clock and there was no way production could keep up with the Americans. So any late war ride was in short supply.
Aces high has many things that had historically low numbers that are in game. For example the ME 163 had only 16 kills in its entire operational life. The TA152 had no more than 15 operational aircraft at any one time. It is always the balance of what is historical and what is fun for game play. I will leave it to the Aces high development crew; they have done a pretty good job so far.
The 190D-13 is by no way a super plane. It loses 2 13mm machine guns and gains 1 20mm cannon. There are advantages and disadvantages to both gun sets. The engine is a later variant and has a little more horse power so the top end speed is a little faster. I look at it as a tempest that can't turn and has 1 less cannon.
I feel it should not be developed in the place of other aircraft that will fill out the plane set in a more complete way, but in addition to. The time spent making this variant would be a small fraction of what it would take to make a new aircraft from scratch.
It would be nice for the Axis guys to have a propeller driven perk plane and it makes a great Christmas present.
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The 190D-13 did see limited production. But in fairness so did all late war Axis aircraft. Their factories were being bombed around the clock and there was no way production could keep up with the Americans. So any late war ride was in short supply.
Aces high has many things that had historically low numbers that are in game. For example the ME 163 had only 16 kills in its entire operational life. The TA152 had no more than 15 operational aircraft at any one time. It is always the balance of what is historical and what is fun for game play. I will leave it to the Aces high development crew; they have done a pretty good job so far.
D-13, two saw service. TA152, Me163, and P-47M all saw service in squadron strength. IE: A bunch of them flying in combat together at the same time.
Squadron of two?
wrongway
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Squadron of two?
Haven't you ever played Ace Combat Zero? :rofl
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My take on this wish is someone is not really wishing for a particular plane but rather something that has a bazillion cannons on it.
ack-ack
I must agree..
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Take up a D9 and fly this skin. Instant D-13!
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/190d9/skin2.jpg)
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http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/46548/2247443690102502144S600x600Q85.jpg
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My take on this wish is someone is not really wishing for a particular plane but rather something that has a bazillion cannons on it.
ack-ack
It still has less guns then the P38 and Temp. I really don't see anything wrong with axis players wanting more rides. It would be nice to see a German bird on the Home Page after all the new allied additions.
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All I'm saying is that the 190 series is one of the largest axis planesets.
besides the 190, the 109 and the 110 :lol as fighters, what do u really have in the German planeset? seems the spits are represented top to bottom. F4Us and P47's as well. we have 2 versions of the C2 for crying out loud. a few more 109/190s would be a nice addition IMO. my $0.02.
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besides the 190, the 109 and the 110 :lol as fighters, what do u really have in the German planeset? seems the spits are represented top to bottom. F4Us and P47's as well. we have 2 versions of the C2 for crying out loud. a few more 109/190s would be a nice addition IMO. my $0.02.
good point
seriously between the 109 and 190 as single engine fighters what other choices do we have, that is why their might be (or should be) maybe 10 different 109s or 190s because they only had those two pretty much (their were others but these seem to be the best ones).
while on the other hand the americans have so many different single engine fighters, you really dont need as many per variant as you would with the LW.
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good point
seriously between the 109 and 190 as single engine fighters what other choices do we have, that is why their might be (or should be) maybe 10 different 109s or 190s because they only had those two pretty much (their were others but these seem to be the best ones).
while on the other hand the americans have so many different single engine fighters, you really dont need as many per variant as you would with the LW.
LOL so be because the LW only had two kinds of fighters, we should limit American production rides in the game. That's about the goofiest logic yet.
How dare those US types allow for more production types.
This is starting to drift towards a Luftwhine. Let's not go there :)
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LOL so be because the LW only had two kinds of fighters, we should limit American production rides in the game. That's about the goofiest logic yet.
How dare those US types allow for more production types.
This is starting to drift towards a Luftwhine. Let's not go there :)
absolutely not what i was getting at. the more planes, the better IMO. sure, there should be way more variations of the American planeset. But on the other hand, allow the other variations of the luftwaffe stuff too. Germans didn't make so many different fighters because they made so many variations of the ones they had. (not advocating this as a good idea, for those who feel the need to flame everything, just sayin)
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It still has less guns then the P38 and Temp.
:rofl
The lethality of the multiple cannon package on the FW 190D-13 far outstrips the lethality of 4x .50 caliber machine guns and a single 20mm. Sure, the P-38 may have 'more guns' in number but not lethality.
This wish for the D-13 is solely based on someone that wants a late war plane with nothing but cannons.
ack-ack
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:rofl
This wish for the D-13 is solely based on someone that wants a late war plane with nothing but cannons.
ack-ack
As is the basis for a majority of the "new" plane wishes on here.
:aok
wrongway
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:rofl
The lethality of the multiple cannon package on the FW 190D-13 far outstrips the lethality of 4x .50 caliber machine guns and a single 20mm. Sure, the P-38 may have 'more guns' in number but not lethality.
This wish for the D-13 is solely based on someone that wants a late war plane with nothing but cannons.
ack-ack
The plane only has 3 20mm and NO machine guns. The upgrade is the engine. Think of it as the axis version of the Temp with one less cannon.
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The plane only has 3 20mm and NO machine guns. The upgrade is the engine. Think of it as the axis version of the Temp with one less cannon.
And you think having 3 20 mm cannons is some how less lethal than 4x .50 calibers and a single 20 mm cannon? Again, just a wish for a plane with nothing but cannons that absolutely brings nothing new (in regards to the plane set) to the game, especially when considering only 2 were produced.
ack-ack
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I just realized, it looks like I've been trying to argue in favor of this wish... hellz no. Rather have the A4, A6 or A9
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And you think having 3 20 mm cannons is some how less lethal than 4x .50 calibers and a single 20 mm cannon? Again, just a wish for a plane with nothing but cannons that absolutely brings nothing new (in regards to the plane set) to the game, especially when considering only 2 were produced.
ack- ack
We both know that's not what I said. What I said was that it was less lethal then the Temp but equal to the P38. Only 2 were in actual combat but I think over 20 were made. It also brings a lot to the plane set saying it doesn't is the same as saying the Temp isn't a real upgrade from the Typh.
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We both know that's not what I said. What I said was that it was less lethal then the Temp but equal to the P38. Only 2 were in actual combat but I think over 20 were made. It also brings a lot to the plane set saying it doesn't is the same as saying the Temp isn't a real upgrade from the Typh.
In no way is the firepower of a FW 190D-13 is equal to the firepower of 4x .50 caliber machine guns and a single 20 mm cannon on the P-38. The 3 cannons on the D-13 trumps the P-38's firepower, to claim otherwise is just rather silly and ignoring the facts.
ack-ack
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Browning M2 = 1
Hizooka = 3.8
Mg151/20 = 3.4
Fw-190 D13 = 10.2
P38J = 7.8
Edit: Sorry, I rounded wrong with the Mg151/20. Fixed
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Browning M2 = 1
Hizooka = 3.8
Mg151/20 = 3.3
Fw-190 D13 = 9.9
P38J = 7.8
So that would make the Temp , Typh , Chog and most other 4 cannon birds 15.2. Like I said Ack - Ack it's just about equal to P38.
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Like I said Ack - Ack it's just about equal to P38.
It still doesn't change the fact you're incorrect.
ack-ack
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It still doesn't change the fact you're incorrect.
ack-ack
I was within the margin of error.
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I was within the margin of error.
There is no margin of error. You're wrong, it's that simple.
ack-ack
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There is no margin of error. You're wrong, it's that simple.
ack-ack
:rofl
You need help.
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well 6 109's 5 190s and there respectable variants, the 109 190 group is pretty complete, though I do agree with you about 7 spitfires, and the P47s are a bit much, was the M really that needed?
Dont know if it was needed, but I sure like flying it :aok
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Fw-190 D13 = 10.2
P38J = 7.8
Edit: Sorry, I rounded wrong with the Mg151/20. Fixed
ok margin of error isnt within 2.4 when we are dealing with such small numbers in this case you were i think more or less 20% off... i hope that your margin of error is a bit more precise than 20%...
margin of error would be like p38 9 and 190d13 10.2 or something like that...
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ok margin of error isnt within 2.4 when we are dealing with such small numbers in this case you were i think more or less 20% off... i hope that your margin of error is a bit more precise than 20%...
margin of error would be like p38 9 and 190d13 10.2 or something like that...
1 + 1 + 1 + 1+ 3.8 = 7.8
3.4 + 3.4 + 3.4 = 10.2
I rounded the numbers to the nearest 10th and minused .2 from each one to make the 50 cal standard at 1.
Small margin of error.
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1 + 1 + 1 + 1+ 3.8 = 7.8
3.4 + 3.4 + 3.4 = 10.2
I rounded the numbers to the nearest 10th and minused .2 from each one to make the 50 cal standard at 1.
Small margin of error.
Math (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W7XJ41JPSc)
Look! Shemp.
wrongway
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If the Allies can have field mods I see no reason why we cant have one perk prop plane.
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If the Allies can have field mods I see no reason why we cant have one perk prop plane.
You don't want to go there. It's a can of worms I've had to implement a lot of self restraint from opening myself.
The plane in this post wouldn't be anymore useful than the Ta-152.
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If the Allies can have field mods I see no reason why we cant have one perk prop plane.
What Allied planes in-game have have "field mods"?
ack-ack
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What am I supposed o be looking at?
Semp
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57 Ta-152 H models were known to be built. 17 of them H-1's.
IF you want to wish for something wish for the 152-C2 that thing was a monster.
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What Allied planes in-game have have "field mods"?
ack-ack
Allies have the Sherman field mod.
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Allies have the Sherman field mod.
Which one? I don't know of any field mod Sherman in the the game.
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Which one? I don't know of any field mod Sherman in the the game.
The only way the Sherman could fire its main gun with the rockets still on was with a field mod. Without the mod the launcher would have to be removed before the main gun could be fired.
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The plane in this post wouldn't be anymore useful than the Ta-152.
Not true it would have the same wings and roll rate the D has.
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Allies have the Sherman field mod.
Hmmm...since when is a Sherman an allied "plane"?
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well 6 109's 5 190s and there respectable variants, the 109 190 group is pretty complete, though I do agree with you about 7 spitfires, and the P47s are a bit much, was the M really that needed?
By all means, the P47 group are such killers that they need perking. (only 2 of THOSE have k/d of 1+, 1 of which is the M)
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Bring the P-47M down to 6 guns and 247 rounds per gun and I promise it won't be used as much. Most of the random MA folk that buy into the hype about it don't really understand it. Those few that understand the plane won't suffer if it receives historical weapons loadouts, but the rest would drop back to the P-47N (which also shouldn't have the overload ammo) or the D11.
Only one group of late P-47Ds had the overload ammo and that was only when they weren't carrying bombs and rockets and only for when they were strafing many ground targets. It was not a normal combat load and the D11, D25, M, and N never carried it.
Thus endeth the side-track.
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They could just re-perk the Ta152 and you would have a perked German prop plane again.
:devil
And, speaking of German field mods... Rüstsätze kits.
wrongway
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Hmmm...since when is a Sherman an allied "plane"?
Ack said plane... Once you let mods into the game why not show the Axis some love.. Its kinda funny that over half the people posting in this thread do not or never will fly Axis :airplane:.
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They could just re-perk the Ta152 and you would have a perked German prop plane again.
:devil
And, speaking of German field mods... Rüstsätze kits.
wrongway
If they perk the 152 the P47M would get a higher perk due to the performance once at alt.
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I'd personally rather see a 190A2 or A3, to make the late 1941/1942 fights more of a historical matchup. IIRC the 190A5 we have is a 1943 variant. (I have been wrong before)
But there are much more necessary aircraft to be added first.
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And, speaking of German field mods... Rüstsätze kits.
That's the second time in a thread like this those have been called "field mods" when they are not, really. Surely you're just stirring the pot, wrongway?
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It might take a bit to get it started ;) Fw190 D-13 starts at heritage museum "'Franz Goetz JG 26"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5LBUVS1T8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5LBUVS1T8)
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That's the second time in a thread like this those have been called "field mods" when they are not, really. Surely you're just stirring the pot, wrongway?
Hey! I got it straight off of wikipedia.
:neener:
wrongway