Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Muzzy on July 25, 2010, 10:52:04 PM
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There has been a lot of comment regarding the new town layout and how it affects capture. Rather than discuss the pros and cons of the situation, I wanted to ask if anyone has a thought as to how to execute a capture with the new layout? Here's my thoughts on CV-based captures.
I think that Task Group captures are going to be much harder, especially since cruiser shells are visible now. In the past, it was possible to fire on the town with a cruiser until it was down, then launch a strike to take out the base VH and then roll an LVT. Now that the shells are visible, the element of surprise is lost, and the CV is in much more danger of being spotted. That said, I'm thinking:
1. Launch a strike off the CV to hit VH's *and* fighter hangars at the same time that the cruiser opens up on the town. Roll an LVTA2 with troops and if possible an LVTA4 to assist with taking down stray buildings.
2. Once VH and and Fighters are down, keep a limited CAP on the field and begin assisting the cruiser in dropping the town.
3. Roll LVTs into town, taking down any stray buildings they might spot along the way. Release troops at map room for capture.
Basically with the town so spread out and the cruiser shells visible the luxury of keeping the fh's up isn't there any more. It used to be that once the vh was down it was simply a matter of mopping up whatever buildings the cruiser might miss, but now we have to watch the town and the field more closely, and you can't let them get fighters in the air or they'll spot the CV from the cruiser fire. So keeping air superiority becomes much more crucial, especially since it may take more time to drop the town than previously.
Looking forward to comments on this as well as captures from land bases.
-Muzzy
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Good idea, but why not just destroy the VH and leave the FH alone and just keep a CAP on the field?
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Possible, but it might take more fighters to drop town than previously, that's why I was thinking dropping the fh's might buy you some time. It used to be you could CAP with most of your fighters and leave the town to the cruiser and maybe one or two jabo's, but now it's taking more fighters to destroy the town, so if you drop the fh's you can cover the base with fewer fighters and send more to town.
Uh, you still gotta de-ack the field tho...
-Muzzy.
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i feel like i know what to do with a CV assault that is flawless and i wont share it to anyone but Bishland :D
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i feel like i know what to do with a CV assault that is flawless and i wont share it to anyone but Bishland :D
Ramming CVs into our runways doesn't count as a strategy :noid
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Better strategy:
Dont take the base and furball :rock
perdweeb
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:rofl @ Eskimo
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There is only one capture strategy IMO. Shot down their planes until they quit in disgust or fight them 'till they quit from exhaustion deep in the wee hours of the morning, then kill town and run troops 'cause you now have nothing better to do. Celebrate your victory with a beer or three and the deflowering of a handy sheep.
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Why capture when you can furball? :headscratch:
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Why furball when you can capture? :)
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Why capture when you can furball? :headscratch:
to establish a beachhead, to promote more fights, to keep the furballers happy ... :)
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How does the new "dead objects now collide with bullets" change affect splash damage?
It took me a while, me being slow and all, to figure out exactly what this recent change means. What it means is that direct fire from a Wirbel will not pass through a destroyed building. There is no more sweeping the town with MG fire to look for hit sprites. Combine this with the new layout, and taking towns has slowed considerably.
Back to my question, does splash damage from a cruiser shell get blocked by dead buildings?
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new town lay-out is awesome.
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Back to my question, does splash damage from a cruiser shell get blocked by dead buildings?
Best question on these forums in a while
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Why capture when you can furball? :headscratch:
Why furball when you can capture? :)
I still think that sometimes, an ongoing furball will distract enough for a sneak base take, while sometimes an attempted base take will create a several hour long furball. It's all good for game play no matter what your preference is.
my .02
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With that new town i have completely figured a few tactical decisions critical to town takes. ill be trying them shortly with the squad i hope.
:lol Eskimo, thats the newbs buddie! not me! :D
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"Back to my question, does splash damage from a cruiser shell get blocked by dead buildings?"
I can't say for positive, because I have not yet tested for exactly that scenario.
Not to mention it would be a real bugger to test.
But my best guess, yes, dead buildings will stop splash damage.
Shooting at buildings with 75mm he every 2nd or 3rd building only takes a single hit (instead of 2) because of splash damage, I see no reason why it would be different with bigger guns.
So if building is up, it will collect splash damage, make it easier to kill next shot.
Building down, prevents it from hitting the next building.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
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IMO..base captures really need a combo of bombers, fighters, attack aircraft, and GV mix. Of course depends on the numbers of players working together...cooperation is required more now among all combat styles. There seems to be enough targets for all. There have been many times now a good bomber mission would have been a great help along with accurate artillery and GV attack.
:salute
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Why capture when you can furball? :headscratch:
why furball when you can vulch and the take it lol
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muzzy thats a good strategy ill have to make a mission outta that for the squad with some small adjustments
69Cougar
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Better strategy:
Dont take the base and furball :rock
perdweeb
I bet most the furballs you see are from bases that were captured,
they tend to be shorter flights, If we stayed at the default field positions, most of the maps we play have much longer flights to a fight, you should be thankfull for some of those captures :rock
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Some of the best furballs are noobs tryin to take bases :salute to the noobs :aok
perdweeb
P.S. Nothin but love for ya cools
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muzzy thats a good strategy ill have to make a mission outta that for the squad with some small adjustments
69Cougar
We had some good success the other day with the fighters taking out the outlying buildings and the bombers flattening the center of town. But yes, if you miss just one crappy little sugar shack, you're screwed.
-Muzzy
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We had some good success the other day with the fighters taking out the outlying buildings and the bombers flattening the center of town. But yes, if you miss just one crappy little sugar shack, you're screwed.
-Muzzy
i learned to use a jeep or M8 to scout town for other buildings and point them to the a/c. It speeds up town killing twofold.
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Love the new town layout...but I thought HTC ws trying ways to get rid of the horde? seems to be the only way to capture anything anymore. And thats all you see anymore.
On the bright side...lots of places to hide in town! and the 17 pounders............fun! :airplane:
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After flying in LW awhile last night I can tell you that most just bomb all the hangers and kill the fight to capture.
As long as we had hangers we held them off.
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After flying in LW awhile last night I can tell you that most just bomb all the hangers and kill the fight to capture.
As long as we had hangers we held them off.
Yep. The game isn't balanced anymore.
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Good idea, but why not just destroy the VH and leave the FH alone and just keep a CAP on the field?
'cause if ya depend on me to keep the bad guys out of the air, you're screwed. my 38 o doom has bullet magnets hidden in it. it sheds parts at the mere sound of gunfire. :rofl :noid :D :bolt:
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We Pigs held off attacks where there were no hangars at all and red guys aplenty. Up off a CV, roll a GV from an adjoining base, up a fighter or JABO from an adjacent airfield, their are multiple possibilities for defense. What I am hearing from some folks is "as long as I do not have to put more than 2-3 minutes into getting to a fight, then we held them off".
Another idea is to intercept the bad guys while they are inbound. We did this several times last night with great effect. I highly suggest joining the next Luftwhiner mission as it was fun taking pain to the vulchers fields.
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Go kill there ords and troops, making goons fly 2 sectors gives hangers and guys upping from a sector over time to re-up. I know it's beneath a lot of folks to do so, but the option is there and works. Also JABO missions have been a way our squad has started some fights.
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I highly suggest joining the next Luftwhiner mission as it was fun taking pain to the vulchers fields.
:noid
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We Pigs held off attacks where there were no hangars at all and red guys aplenty. Up off a CV, roll a GV from an adjoining base, up a fighter or JABO from an adjacent airfield, their are multiple possibilities for defense. What I am hearing from some folks is "as long as I do not have to put more than 2-3 minutes into getting to a fight, then we held them off".
Another idea is to intercept the bad guys while they are inbound. We did this several times last night with great effect. I highly suggest joining the next Luftwhiner mission as it was fun taking pain to the vulchers fields.
what are you talking about??? :noid
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what are you talking about??? :noid
Clarification requested? In my usual nice manner I am responding to someone's earlier post and not calling anyone out by name. Enough said... :aok
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We Pigs held off attacks where there were no hangars at all and red guys aplenty. Up off a CV, roll a GV from an adjoining base, up a fighter or JABO from an adjacent airfield, their are multiple possibilities for defense. What I am hearing from some folks is "as long as I do not have to put more than 2-3 minutes into getting to a fight, then we held them off".
Another idea is to intercept the bad guys while they are inbound. We did this several times last night with great effect. I highly suggest joining the next Luftwhiner mission as it was fun taking pain to the vulchers fields.
All fine if your into capturing/defending bases. I on the other hand was looking for good fights. I really did not care about the base.
I went elsewhere to find a fight. Obviously the folks attacking the base I was at were tired of fighting.
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All fine if your into capturing/defending bases. I on the other hand was looking for good fights. I really did not care about the base.
I went elsewhere to find a fight. Obviously the folks attacking the base I was at were tired of fighting.
Now Shuff, you know I love ya man! I am just into all the entire Aces High Universe! From finding good fights, to capturing/defending, GVing, etc. My point is that the fight is not over when the hangars are down, unless you want it to be. I completely understand and respect leaving certain types of fights that bore you or are of no interest (like the WW1 arena :rofl). I do it myself all the time.
:salute
Way
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i like to land on the enemy's runway and do donuts till someone shoots me. :devil
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Now Shuff, you know I love ya man! I am just into all the entire Aces High Universe! From finding good fights, to capturing/defending, GVing, etc. My point is that the fight is not over when the hangars are down, unless you want it to be. I completely understand and respect leaving certain types of fights that bore you or are of no interest (like the WW1 arena :rofl). I do it myself all the time.
:salute
Way
The fight is over when one side decides it does not want to fight anymore. Hence the hangars are put down. I understand the mentality. To some dirt is more important than the fight.
No big deal.... I just head to where folks are wanting a fight. Most of the time you can find another in the same arena.... if not there are other arens. :D
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Love the new town layout...but I thought HTC ws trying ways to get rid of the horde? seems to be the only way to capture anything anymore. And thats all you see anymore.
That's my concern as well. They say they don't like hordes and don't think they're good for the game, but keep introducing changes that push the players to form bigger hordes.
Overall I like every change in the new version - the town looks great, I just wish they hadn't made it that much harder to take down (and keep down; it's much harder to see a single building popping now). The maps have become too static.
Perhaps one solution would be to make town buildings stay down longer - say, an hour. If the intent is to force bigger, more knock-down drag-out fights, it seems to me that would serve it. It would prolong base take fights without making it any easier to sneak bases or take them in one massive first strike - after all, if the base hasn't been taken in 45 minutes, it's almost certainly because there's a fierce battle going on to defend it. It would allow the attackers to focus more on fighting for control of the air & ground and less on patrolling the town to see if anything pops, which I would think would make the furballers happy as well.
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The fight is over when one side decides it does not want to fight anymore. Hence the hangars are put down. I understand the mentality. To some dirt is more important than the fight.
No big deal.... I just head to where folks are wanting a fight. Most of the time you can find another in the same arena.... if not there are other arens. :D
what exactly is an "aren"?
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what exactly is an "aren"?
LOL. Checked Wikipedia and here is what I found:
Aren is a commune in the Pyrénées-Atlantiques department in south-western France.
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TT is much harder to be walked all over with those new Vbases +1 from me :aok.
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i liked the town better w/ out the ack.
:( :( :(
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Perhaps one solution would be to make town buildings stay down longer - say, an hour. If the intent is to force bigger, more knock-down drag-out fights, it seems to me that would serve it. It would prolong base take fights without making it any easier to sneak bases or take them in one massive first strike - after all, if the base hasn't been taken in 45 minutes, it's almost certainly because there's a fierce battle going on to defend it. It would allow the attackers to focus more on fighting for control of the air & ground and less on patrolling the town to see if anything pops, which I would think would make the furballers happy as well.
+1
Would like to see towns stay down 15-30 minutes longer with the new setup. Would add to gameplay and offset the overwhelming difficulty which is required to capture a base now.
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Go kill there ords and troops, making goons fly 2 sectors gives hangers and guys upping from a sector over time to re-up. I know it's beneath a lot of folks to do so, but the option is there and works. Also JABO missions have been a way our squad has started some fights.
Killing troops at the closest base is like spraying RAID on the hording cock-a-roaches. They don't bother with a second wave if they can't get their precious base. :cry
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Yep,
New towns look great and AT guns are so cool. But, if two passes from 4 sets of Lancs on a small Airfield and town plus 5+ attackers on buildings is not enough to take a town down and get a capture from 2 defenders, then I won't be seeing much of town, other than to fire that cool AT gun in defense.
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Yep,
New towns look great and AT guns are so cool. But, if two passes from 4 sets of Lancs on a small Airfield and town plus 5+ attackers on buildings is not enough to take a town down and get a capture from 2 defenders, then I won't be seeing much of town, other than to fire that cool AT gun in defense.
must be some really poor bombing going on. 1 set of lancs going down the 2 main avenues of town can get 70% of town in 2 passes. 2 110's should easily be able to finish up with cannon. Throw in a GV. 4 guys max. The other 5 should be able to cap the 2 defenders.
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That's my concern as well. They say they don't like hordes and don't think they're good for the game, but keep introducing changes that push the players to form bigger hordes.
Overall I like every change in the new version - the town looks great, I just wish they hadn't made it that much harder to take down (and keep down; it's much harder to see a single building popping now). The maps have become too static.
Perhaps one solution would be to make town buildings stay down longer - say, an hour. If the intent is to force bigger, more knock-down drag-out fights, it seems to me that would serve it. It would prolong base take fights without making it any easier to sneak bases or take them in one massive first strike - after all, if the base hasn't been taken in 45 minutes, it's almost certainly because there's a fierce battle going on to defend it. It would allow the attackers to focus more on fighting for control of the air & ground and less on patrolling the town to see if anything pops, which I would think would make the furballers happy as well.
+1 :aok :aok
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must be some really poor bombing going on.
Rgr that. The other day 3 squaddies in lancs who don't normally fly buffs leveled a small field, and 80 some % of town in 2 passes. 3 or 4 others finished the town and gooned it with 3 defenders who were a day late and a dollar short.
I contend that leveling a small field is easier now than ever. Field Ack is more spread out and appears less lethal. Granted, there was no town ack at the time, but I just don't see that as a major deterrent.
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I contend that leveling a small field is easier now than ever. Field Ack is more spread out and appears less lethal. Granted, there was no town ack at the time, but I just don't see that as a major deterrent.
I agree about the ack layout. It seems to have a more oval track feel to it and some of the perimeter guns are isolated. If you work around the corners the actual runway doesn't seem to be covered as much.
Speaking strictly from a vulchers perspective it feels easier
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"the game isn't balanced any more"
"it takes an even bigger hoards to capture a base"
"buildings should stay down longer"
:headscratch:
The game has never been better, imo. The are no more massed NOE 110 raids, and I believe to have seen fewer bases change hands since the update. That means the bases are much harder to take and best of all no more 1 man band base captures.
Again, I applaud HTC's' update. It has done MUCH to breathe new life into AH. Isnt it great that we're all newbs again? :D
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Again, I applaud HTC's' update. It has done MUCH to breathe new life into AH. Isnt it great that we're all newbs again? :D
Unless the win the war guys get tired of trying to take bases with an arm tied behind their backs and quit. That would kill the game pretty quick actually, not breathe life into it.
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Unless the win the war guys get tired of trying to take bases with an arm tied behind their backs and quit. That would kill the game pretty quick actually, not breathe life into it.
Unfortunately, while I mostly agree with Loon's assessment ... your statement definitely reflects Bish range and country chatter during the day yesterday for a period of time.
Ok, so what is it that has their "arm tied behind their backs"?
I still maintain unfamiliarity is the biggest problem. Recognizing at a glance ... which hanger is which, where they are, up or down status, remembering where everything is on the 3 different field sizes ... this all takes time to acclimate.
Town is more spread out and determining it's up or down status, while not impossible ... is certainly a little more difficult. But not hugely IMO. If the truth were told, it is harder to DEFEND a town now from a ground attack perspective. The elevation changes, trees, hedgerows, brick walls, building clusters ... got people augerin' all around me in droves. :D
Recycle time on town is shorter, it seems to me. Maybe even substantially. Perhaps I missed the memo. As a result, those initial attacks need to be more efficient and effective. But as with A121 in Pink yesterday ... all it takes is one clown who hears "deack and cap, THEN we will start on town" ... to saunter over to the middle of town and take out that big cluster fer points ... guess what, the clock is now ticking ... when we finally get deack and FH down and cap, vulch lamp lit, start working town and get it down, where is the goon? ... OOPS, whats that, pop pop pop ... again, how do you spell "bust"?
Now your into a 3 hour long out of sequence thingey. It's not that is all that much harder in execution or that our hands are tied, it is that we now need more discipline and mutual coordination. Perhaps that's where our hands are tied. ;)
Overall, lots of whining yesterday, no doubt though ...
As a land grabber myself, I still like most of the changes. :salute
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Ok, so what is it that has their "arm tied behind their backs"?
You answered your own question.
As a result, those initial attacks need to be more efficient and effective.
Requiring more efficiency out of the most skillless crowd in the game is why they might give up.
It's like all the players that whine about newbs flying spit16s and dominating them. If you put all the noobs in P38s, lets say for example, how long do you think it would be before they quit because they would not be successful?
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Yep,
New towns look great and AT guns are so cool. But, if two passes from 4 sets of Lancs on a small Airfield and town plus 5+ attackers on buildings is not enough to take a town down and get a capture from 2 defenders, then I won't be seeing much of town, other than to fire that cool AT gun in defense.
One set of lancs of can take down 80% of the town, the problem tends to be the outlying "neighborhoods", where before it was a few sets of lancs and cleanup detail....you need more cleaners. If you have cappers that's a bonus, unfortunately the horde is playing a bigger part in the capture.
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Unless the win the war guys get tired of trying to take bases with an arm tied behind their backs and quit. That would kill the game pretty quick actually, not breathe life into it.
Well said Grizz.. :aok
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Unless the win the war guys get tired of trying to take bases with an arm tied behind their backs and quit. That would kill the game pretty quick actually, not breathe life into it.
I never really looked at it from this standpoint (thinking, thinking). I guess I just enjoyed the added challenges, but I can see that some players may get frustrated easily. What do you think would untie that arm so to speak?
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There was a time when 2 people could take a town down, Gv's or bombers. One bails and runs back with troops, Capture! Woo hoo! :banana: Not very realistic. Then It became harder and you needed more help. Timing was important. Now as others have said Timing is Critical! Also it forces us to work together like a real military. :rolleyes:
The changes are great and learning the "New Game" will take time but is anything but boring. Picktards are going to love it though as the field ack is less of a threat but they must be countered with Flak. More places for gv's to hide in town so bring bombs.
Do the Graphics also seem clearer and sharper? They do on my older PC.
Good Job HTC keeping the game fresh. :salute
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I never really looked at it from this standpoint (thinking, thinking). I guess I just enjoyed the added challenges, but I can see that some players may get frustrated easily. What do you think would untie that arm so to speak?
Keep the towns down for longer would be a good start. Loki, whom I rarely agree with, summed it up nicely.
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Also it forces us to work together like a real military. :rolleyes:
Two flaws in this sentence:
1) Being forced to work? I want to play on Aces High. A little challenge is a good thing, but anything too laborious is just not fun. HTC does a good job keeping the fun in and the ‘not fun’ out.
2) It will be difficult and ‘not fun’ to try to impose military discipline and standardization to the Aces High player base. ‘The perfect mission’ is as elusive as a unicorn or ‘the perfect woman.’
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I never really looked at it from this standpoint (thinking, thinking). I guess I just enjoyed the added challenges, but I can see that some players may get frustrated easily. What do you think would untie that arm so to speak?
I only got frustrated since they added the ack guns back in town.. You try to get a GV into town and the ack is shooting you through the hedge rows. You cant see the ack gun and when you shoot at it your round does not penetrate hedge rows..Got tracked by it the other night.. How can ack shoot me through a hedge row, but I cannot shoot it back? I think more adjustment is needed with the new town set up.. Town down time also needs to be longer.. The new town base take is a challenge to say the least.. It does require a larger horde if the base is defended. Or it requires a joint bomber mission to completely level the base... I opt for completely leveling the base..
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what exactly is an "aren"?
It is something an A will help. :)
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I only got frustrated since they added the ack guns back in town..
i actually dislike the town ack also, and I am probably a defense guy 90% of the time.. anything that discourages enemy vehicles from entering my town is not good IMO.. can have great cat and mouse gv fights in there, but im not so sure they want to deal with the auto ack..
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i actually dislike the town ack also, and I am probably a defense guy 90% of the time.. anything that discourages enemy vehicles from entering my town is not good IMO.. can have great cat and mouse gv fights in there, but im not so sure they want to deal with the auto ack..
Thats a problem that I see. The old town ack was easy to see and kill in a GV. Now your getting shot up from behind hedgerows and you cant shoot the ack down.. I am sure HTC will fix that small problem in the future.. Your right. looking forward to that town tank battle. Still havent found one yet..
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Harder for GV;s I'll agree, but patience and finding the right vantage point will fix that most times.
And it really is not that hard for 2 or more guys to run a bomber sortie that would 80% level the town and the acks. Leaving the GV's free to run in and clean up.
Or 1 good level bomber and a couple of guys in a20's, and a few jabo's should take the town down quick clean and fast.
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Thats a problem that I see. The old town ack was easy to see and kill in a GV. Now your getting shot up from behind hedgerows and you cant shoot the ack down.. I am sure HTC will fix that small problem in the future.. Your right. looking forward to that town tank battle. Still havent found one yet..
True, hard to lob a tank shell 100 yards over a hedgerow for an ack firing thru the bushes. Also had a town ack chew me up in the town firing thru one of the concrete walls. Was wierd watching the tracers emerge from the center of the concrete.
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Better strategy:
Dont take the base and furball :rock
perdweeb
agreed :aok
what else is there...
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Keep the towns down for longer would be a good start. Loki, whom I rarely agree with, summed it up nicely.
I think this is a good idea but I think that if they do this they should allow the town to be re-supply-able.
I personally don't play the base capture portion of the game but if the attackers can get the base by sneaking one lone goon in for a capture why shouldn't the defenders be able to sneak in a few supplies to reduce the time that the town stays down. It's not like it is that easy to sneak in anyway.
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Well Bishland just took a map. So it's not impossible. :)
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They took it while nobody was playing early in the day. As usual.
Semp
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They took it while nobody was playing early in the day. As usual.
They took it right now with 200 players in arena ;)
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They took it right now with 200 players in arena ;)
Yeah, I was there. It was brilliant. Cheers to our master strategist, Chewie. We're doomed if he ever gets a life.
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Yeah, I was there. It was brilliant. Cheers to our master strategist, Chewie. We're doomed if he ever gets a life.
Then what happened?
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Then what happened?
Then there was an arena-wide fireworks display accompanied by the music of "Ride of the Valkyries". The sky opened up, and a large mystical lion named Aslan appeared to lead the triumphant bish through the magic gate to the new arena map, where the Buffalo, Wildcat, and Jug live in peaceful harmony to this day. Plus we all got perk points.
Well, okay...we did get perk points. And there was a new map.
-Muzzy