Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kazaa on July 29, 2010, 10:01:14 PM
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Just curious if HTC are still working on implementing the new damage model on WW2 planes.
I felt really greedy for asking that question, considering Aces High already has a fantastic damage model when compared to most games.
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I noticed that in the WW1 planes you can bust the tips off your prop and it will stay spinning but shake violently till the engine breaks. Was it always like that or is that a recent addition?
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I felt really greedy for asking that question, considering Aces High already has a fantastic damage model when compared to most games.
Nice touch. I like the idea of adding a short commentary after ones post describing the emotion or inward feelings of the poster.
I felt tingles in my toes when I posted this response.
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Nice touch. I like the idea of adding a short commentary after ones post describing the emotion or inward feelings of the poster.
I felt tingles in my toes when I posted this response.
I feel tingles in my toes sometimes, but usually only after my feets wake up.
Oh yea, per Sunbat's suggestion...I feel a little sleepy as I post this.
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I feel tingles in my toes sometimes, but usually only after my feets wake up.
Oh yea, per Sunbat's suggestion...I feel a little sleepy as I post this.
Do your feets fall asleep cuz ur Velcro is too tight?
I felt a deep concern for the well-being of Grizz's feets when I posted that.
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I was kind of expecting a change in this update, but I suppose they have to do all the aircraft at once and not phase them in.
I feel confusion and fear. :uhoh
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After such a great update if the new damage models come along within a few months I will feel surprised and grateful that HTC doesn't sleep.
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Just curious if HTC are still working on implementing the new damage model on WW2 planes.
I felt really greedy for asking that question, considering Aces High already has a fantastic damage model when compared to most games.
Thats not saying much, WW2OL and even IL2 have better damage models than AH...well at least before the new damage model with WW1
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Do your feets fall asleep cuz ur Velcro is too tight?
I felt a deep concern for the well-being of Grizz's feets when I posted that.
I hate when my foot falls asleep during the day, cause that means it'll be up all night.
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:D
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anyone have an extra pair of ankle warmers around?
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anyone have an extra pair of ankle warmers around?
Do you think they would help get circulation to my velcro'd feet? Idk, they are on there pretty tight...
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Thats not saying much, WW2OL and even IL2 have better damage models than AH...well at least before the new damage model with WW1
I fear Flipperk has lost his mind.
You're looking at the damage "effects" not the way damage "occurs". IL2 and WWIIOL use hit boxes, AH doesn't which makes it better.
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I fear Flipperk has lost his mind.
You're looking at the damage "effects" not the way damage "occurs". IL2 and WWIIOL use hit boxes, AH doesn't which makes it better.
Not arguing, but could you go into depth about why that makes it better.
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One time when I was running from a gang of Spixteens in my Yak on the deck below tree level, and I accidentally barely clipped a tree, only enough to break the prop, and as I appreciated how the damage model was just that good, with the cannons shots starting to rip into the Yak's wings from the Spixteens behind me...
I felt like I had to pee a little.
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Fellow players we all have to accept something right now :)
And that is for all our asks and wants for the game we all will eventually land up needing a room full of interlinked PC towers with more memory than they can hold to run this game. Remember the more we ask for the more storage memory we need on our hard driver's. That's why i believe that HTC do what they think is necessary and keeping the game to a smallish use of storage memory for our hard driver's.
Also they may as well keep up to date with the latest hard drives and how much they store etc and plan for the eventuality of players having these new hard driver's. ( Wait Stop Bullet Ab-it Off Topic NOW DOH )
But again it would be great to improve the damage model for the game but this may lead to an increase in memory usage that HTC don't want us to use as they probally feel that they don't want us all to have to run out to the shops and buy new computers to run and just run Ace's Alone on that computer. Although i would do it and 90% of the players would do it but they may not see it as a viable option for us. :)
Remember GOOD things come in SMALL package's :)
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You Don't See Me But You Hear Me Coming Then Darkness
^^^^^^
Wrong - we'd smell the BS from a mile and a half away, and know you were coming. :D
<S>
P.S. It's hard drive. And as a percentage of total resources in the average system, disk storage is the LEAST of the reasons why HTC might choose not to implement a specific feature as a rule.
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^^^^^^
Wrong - we'd smell the BS from a mile and a half away, and know you were coming. :D
<S>
P.S. It's hard drive. And as a percentage of total resources in the average system, disk storage is the LEAST of the reasons why HTC might choose not to implement a specific feature as a rule.
Yes But To Quote Myself
" GOOD THINGS COME IN SMALL PACKAGES "
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Yes But To Quote Myself
" GOOD THINGS COME IN SMALL PACKAGES "
How does that even apply?
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How does that even apply?
I don't know Ah yes wait i do now. Ace's for a multiplayer on line Combat sim Takes up less room on the hard drive than the like's of iL2 and microsoft combat flight sim. And Ace's s way better than them :)
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Yes But To Quote Myself
" GOOD THINGS COME IN SMALL PACKAGES "
Really? When I quote you, it says:
Remember GOOD things come in SMALL package's
:rofl
Besides, what HTC puts or does not put into their game is their business and decision. I would guess some part of that is the size of the download, since it is most commonly delivered to new guys as a download and not a CD installation. Which is also a big part of why they are so strict on MA terrains and skins.
And, the damage model in WWI has been said by HTC will be coming to the WWII arenas when they update the plane models and are ready for that kind of update.
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Really? When I quote you, it says:
:rofl
Besides, what HTC puts or does not put into their game is their business and decision. I would guess some part of that is the size of the download, since it is most commonly delivered to new guys as a download and not a CD installation. Which is also a big part of why they are so strict on MA terrains and skins.
And, the damage model in WWI has been said by HTC will be coming to the WWII arenas when they update the plane models and are ready for that kind of update.
EXACTO MUNDO LOL
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Do you think they would help get circulation to my velcro'd feet? Idk, they are on there pretty tight...
Don't know about that but according to Chalenge, they keep the toes nice and toasty at 35,000ft.
ack-ack
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compression socks might help with that...
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compression socks might help with that...
Pantyhose work better, especially when worn under cotton socks... :D
Now I have to figure out how Bullet in his infinitely minute wisdom associated the amount of space taken up on a hard drive by the software with the amount of data from the damage model being used in memory. I hope he realizes that it's a relatively small amount of data that gets passed between the local pc and the servers, and that the damage textures as well as the damage model data are local. The complete game folder on a hard drive including terrains and skins is just a bit over 1GB of hard disc space, a more complex damage system with the appropriate textures wouldn't significantly increase the size.
Not arguing, but could you go into depth about why that makes it better.
Hitboxes is an old damage system that's been around for a long time. It has been refined but for 3d damage detection and modelling it's not as accurate as a polygon collision mesh system.
Below is a very simplistic view of a hitbox system.
(http://i27.tinypic.com/z2txy.jpg)
Each grid would be a 3D cube known as a zone. The zones may touch, overlap or have spaces in between. Looking at the head, notice an impact in any square surrounding the head can be registered as a hit, even if it's a miss. Same goes for the hands, chest, torso, legs, etc... That is the flaw in using hit boxes, they cannot be made to fit the contour of the model as close as what my understanding of the AH damage system uses. HiTech has not stated exactly what the damage system uses but watch enough game recordings and you can see it's a lot more accurate. From what I understand, the new damage system is even more granular.
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Pantyhose work better, especially when worn under cotton socks... :D
Now I have to figure out how Bullet in his infinitely minute wisdom associated the amount of space taken up on a hard drive by the software with the amount of data from the damage model being used in memory. I hope he realizes that it's a relatively small amount of data that gets passed between the local pc and the servers, and that the damage textures as well as the damage model data are local. The complete game folder on a hard drive including terrains and skins is just a bit over 1GB of hard disc space, a more complex damage system with the appropriate textures wouldn't significantly increase the size.
Hitboxes is an old damage system that's been around for a long time. It has been refined but for 3d damage detection and modelling it's not as accurate as a polygon collision mesh system.
Below is a very simplistic view of a hitbox system.
(http://i27.tinypic.com/z2txy.jpg)
Each grid would be a 3D cube known as a zone. The zones may touch, overlap or have spaces in between. Looking at the head, notice an impact in any square surrounding the head can be registered as a hit, even if it's a miss. Same goes for the hands, chest, torso, legs, etc... That is the flaw in using hit boxes, they cannot be made to fit the contour of the model as close as what my understanding of the AH damage system uses. HiTech has not stated exactly what the damage system uses but watch enough game recordings and you can see it's a lot more accurate. From what I understand, the new damage system is even more granular.
Ok if you read my post you shall see me saying whoa big boy stop. But it is logical that if HTC keep on adding and adding the game will eventually require a whole hard drive space then some more wont it ????
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If you mean, "Will WW2 plane damage look like WW1 plane damage" then the answer is "No."
Going forward, do you know if WW2 planes will eventually follow suit, or is this only for the cloth covered biplanes?
WW1 planes are the only ones who will have this.
However, the damage model itself is probably on version 20.0, rather than 2.0. They seem to constantly be making new changes to it (minor stuff). When the B-25 came out I was impressed with the flaps/controls damage, but also surprised that you can shoot the gear doors off without damaging the gear! Then comes more and more detailed graphics like on the I-16 where you see the metal framework and ribs/frames when the wing is ripped off. Now we get single H-stabs that are removable (instead of both). It's not as if they haven't been working on it.
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Nope, not really.
Early versions of AH were I believe in the 10 to 12 mb size range.
Later it got pushed up into the 20's. Currently I believe we are in the mid 30's.
While it does take a bit longer to download on a dial up connection. It doesn't even come close to impacting hard drive space.
Not unless your using an old 80 - 120 mb drive.
Any current 150 gig drive or bigger would have no issues for the foreseeable future.
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Nope, not really.
Early versions of AH were I believe in the 10 to 12 mb size range.
Later it got pushed up into the 20's. Currently I believe we are in the mid 30's.
While it does take a bit longer to download on a dial up connection. It doesn't even come close to impacting hard drive space.
Not unless your using an old 80 - 120 mb drive.
Any current 150 gig drive or bigger would have no issues for the foreseeable future.
Yes true but at the rate the wish list is going we going to need 60 State o the Art PC's to run Aces LOL :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Wish list remains 99% unfullfilled, 1% thought about long and hard before seeing if it is possible, and if it is desired.
Don't sweat the wish list.
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Below is a very simplistic view of a hitbox system.
I wonder how they do that without needing a room full of interlinked PC towers with more memory than they can hold and all the hard driver's?
:headscratch:
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See rule #4
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Nope, not really.
Early versions of AH were I believe in the 10 to 12 mb size range.
Later it got pushed up into the 20's. Currently I believe we are in the mid 30's.
While it does take a bit longer to download on a dial up connection. It doesn't even come close to impacting hard drive space.
Not unless your using an old 80 - 120 mb drive.
Any current 150 gig drive or bigger would have no issues for the foreseeable future.
:airplane: But but they told me years ago when I bought my first pc I would NEVER EVER need anything bigger than 120 mb hard drive. and 4 megs of ram was
awesome.
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I wonder how they do that without needing a room full of interlinked PC towers with more memory than they can hold and all the hard driver's?
:headscratch:
LOL...What? :headscratch:
Not sure exactly what you're asking but the 3D models take more system resources to build than the hitboxes, it's just code that associates damage calculations and variables with quadrants inside the hitboxes.
Ok if you read my post you shall see me saying whoa big boy stop. But it is logical that if HTC keep on adding and adding the game will eventually require a whole hard drive space then some more wont it ????
Bullet, look at the existing content and the amount of space it takes on a hard drive. It would take a hell of a lot of content to just fill a DVD, let alone a hard drive.
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I have evidence to suggest that enough pr0n wil fill a hard drive in a matter of months.
I felt humiliated while posting, but ultimately relieved that my perversion was no longer hidden from the world.
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Fellow players we all have to accept something right now :)
And that is for all our asks and wants for the game we all will eventually land up needing a room full of interlinked PC towers with more memory than they can hold to run this game. Remember the more we ask for the more storage memory we need on our hard driver's. That's why i believe that HTC do what they think is necessary and keeping the game to a smallish use of storage memory for our hard driver's.
Also they may as well keep up to date with the latest hard drives and how much they store etc and plan for the eventuality of players having these new hard driver's. ( Wait Stop Bullet Ab-it Off Topic NOW DOH )
But again it would be great to improve the damage model for the game but this may lead to an increase in memory usage that HTC don't want us to use as they probally feel that they don't want us all to have to run out to the shops and buy new computers to run and just run Ace's Alone on that computer. Although i would do it and 90% of the players would do it but they may not see it as a viable option for us. :)
Remember GOOD things come in SMALL package's :)
THat is the dumbest thing i have read on these boards so far.... and that is saying alot.... the game is no where near requiring what you seem to be speculating on. As it is this games requirements arent that high at all. Why would you even think this, why limit the games potential based on the fact that people dont upgrade their computers from time to time. I know I do, in fact im buying a new cpu for my computer now.
This game is no where near needing a room full of servers or what ever you alluded to. and to limit the game based on that is foolish anyways. that will never be the case since technology gets smaller and better at the same time, so perhaps we will simply need an external hard drives worth of space to run this game, in the future perhaps...The game will never need a whole hard drives worth of space right now it takes 1.38 gb and that is with a sound pack and hires textures.... that is nothing... i dont know what you are trying to say other than to assume that you must use a computer from the 90s, and dont realize the technical advances we have been making in computers, and the advances that keep coming.
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LOL...What? :headscratch:
Not sure exactly what you're asking but the 3D models take more system resources to build than the hitboxes, it's just code that associates damage calculations and variables with quadrants inside the hitboxes.
Bullet, look at the existing content and the amount of space it takes on a hard drive. It would take a hell of a lot of content to just fill a DVD, let alone a hard drive.
LOL - I wasn't serious, Gyrene - I was quoting the OP's nonsense back at him.
<S>
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LOL...What? :headscratch:
Not sure exactly what you're asking but the 3D models take more system resources to build than the hitboxes, it's just code that associates damage calculations and variables with quadrants inside the hitboxes.
Bullet, look at the existing content and the amount of space it takes on a hard drive. It would take a hell of a lot of content to just fill a DVD, let alone a hard drive.
I know gyrene81
But if HTC where to do what everyone asked for in the wish list we would eventually land up having 2-3 computers just to run Ace's :lol
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I know gyrene81
But if HTC where to do what everyone asked for in the wish list we would eventually land up having 2-3 computers just to run Ace's :lol
Not really, most of the wishes are fairly simple, or can have simple implementations that look good. As for the aircraft, those would just take up a fraction of our HD's space.
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Not really, most of the wishes are fairly simple, or can have simple implementations that look good. As for the aircraft, those would just take up a fraction of our HD's space.
EGAD You can tell its Sunday nobody has a sense o humour the day. Whats up someone PISS in the collection plate this Morning :D :mad:
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I have a 1 terrabyte or howver u spelt it as much crap as I have added I still have 94% empty. Of course I don't d/l pron, I have dvr on cable for that. I had a 350 hd before had lots of songs movies picture games and was still 60 empty. I store all my pictures in photobucket or kodak and movies in file front anything else I don't use for a while it either gets deleted or ziped. So if ah gets 20 times the size it is now it wint be a problem.
Semp
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Wish list remains 99% unfullfilled, 1% thought about long and hard before seeing if it is possible, and if it is desired.
Don't sweat the wish list.
If you count the same two, old, repeated wishes as 99%, then I would agree. Otherwise I would say your speculation is way off.
I have evidence to suggest that enough pr0n will fill a hard drive in a matter of months.
I felt humiliated while posting, but ultimately relieved that my perversion was no longer hidden from the world.
You're being too conservative.
wrongway
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I felt humiliated while posting, but ultimately relieved that my perversion was no longer hidden from the world.
Anyone reading that has a computer and access to the interwebz, which means they too have a HD full of pr0n. Except for the lamers using the public library for access, then all they have is jeans with the pockets cut out. Either way don't worry bro, no one here can judge you for it.
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:D
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I fear Flipperk has lost his mind.
You're looking at the damage "effects" not the way damage "occurs". IL2 and WWIIOL use hit boxes, AH doesn't which makes it better.
The effect would be the most important, it is what the player feels after being damaged. The effect of the damage on the airplane is what is lacking in AH. I enjoy flying IL2 and WW2OL because I do not have to shoot a plane till it's wing pops off...a few hits with a 20mm to the wing will cause the lift capacity of the wing to drop so much that the plane is unflyable, much more realistic.
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Thats not saying much, WW2OL and even IL2 have better damage models than AH...well at least before the new damage model with WW1
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Yeah right. WW2OL's damage model is crap.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Yeah right. WW2OL's damage model is crap.
There is a difference between flight model and damage model. WW2OL Damage model is better, flight model is not.
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I don't know Ah yes wait i do now. Ace's for a multiplayer on line Combat sim Takes up less room on the hard drive than the like's of iL2 and microsoft combat flight sim. And Ace's s way better than them :)
Dude, what kind of archaic machine are you running that you're worried about hard drive space? I have a game on my HD that takes up 27 gigs of space. I'm wondering if you even have a 27 gig hard drive with the nonsense you're posting.
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There is a difference between flight model and damage model. WW2OL Damage model is better, flight model is not.
Oh, I'm well aware that there is a difference and I still say it's crap. I play both games. I would reckon that 90% of the kills in WW2OL are pilot kills. In other words, people keep flying around and soaking up tons of ammo until you finally manage to put the lights out on their pilot. Seeing a wing or elevator broken off of a plane is only slightly less rare than seeing a total eclipse. It's a joke and the joke isn't funny.
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Oh, I'm well aware that there is a difference and I still say it's crap. I play both games. I would reckon that 90% of the kills in WW2OL are pilot kills. In other words, people keep flying around and soaking up tons of ammo until you finally manage to put the lights out on their pilot. Seeing a wing or elevator broken off of a plane is only slightly less rare than seeing a total eclipse. It's a joke and the joke isn't funny.
The 90% is true, yes most of the kills are pilot kills, which is pretty consistent with RL. But you cannot fly around soaking up ammo like you can here in AH. I have literally fallen through the sky in WW2OL purely because my plane has taken so much damage that the lift capabilities of the control surfaces could not keep the plane in the air.
Please watch this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/user/1epic1#p/a/u/0/-8Y4l-uEMCY
The video shows many examples of parts falling off of aircraft as well as planes being killed due to fires and being damaged to the point that the control surfaces can not provide lift to the aircraft.
If you take damage here in AH your planes' flight characteristics is not effected until a control surface falls off the aircraft, this is not the case in WW2OL or IL2 which makes these two games' damage model better than AH. Although they do lack the flight model of AH
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The 90% is true, yes most of the kills are pilot kills, which is pretty consistent with RL. But you cannot fly around soaking up ammo like you can here in AH. I have literally fallen through the sky in WW2OL purely because my plane has taken so much damage that the lift capabilities of the control surfaces could not keep the plane in the air.
Please watch this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/user/1epic1#p/a/u/0/-8Y4l-uEMCY
The video shows many examples of parts falling off of aircraft as well as planes being killed due to fires and being damaged to the point that the control surfaces can not provide lift to the aircraft.
I told ya, I play both games. I know how the game works. I could easily make a video showing planes soaking up thousands of rounds, trailing smoke from 3 different places and continuing to dogfight like nobody's business. It's crap. I can remember one particularly laughable example that happened to me last campaign. I spotted a Hawk below me and dove down to him in my 190. I dove underneath him so he couldn't see me and when I got into range I pulled up and gave him a blast right underneath the cockpit. I pulled above his plane and put so many cannon hits on his wing that I could barely see the plane through all the black smoke from all the explosions. At that point, he realized something was amiss and started to try to evade and went into a spin. I thought there was no way he would recover it (we weren't very high) with all that damage and I just went into a shallow climbing turn to keep an eye on him. Lo and behold, he did recover it and then I watched him engage and shoot down another guy.
That crap happens...all...the...time. Sure, you can get a quick kill every now and then but that's the exception, not the rule. That's why the 190F-1 was so reviled. You would end up blowing all your cannon ammo on one encounter that you probably wouldn't even kill and then you were left with just 2x7.9mm to defend yourself which is totally inadequate.
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I told ya, I play both games. I know how the game works. I could easily make a video showing planes soaking up thousands of rounds, trailing smoke from 3 different places and continuing to dogfight like nobody's business. It's crap. I can remember one particularly laughable example that happened to me last campaign. I spotted a Hawk below me and dove down to him in my 190. I dove underneath him so he couldn't see me and when I got into range I pulled up and gave him a blast right underneath the cockpit. I pulled above his plane and put so many cannon hits on his wing that I could barely see the plane through all the black smoke from all the explosions. At that point, he realized something was amiss and started to try to evade and went into a spin. I thought there was no way he would recover it (we weren't very high) with all that damage and I just went into a shallow climbing turn to keep an eye on him. Lo and behold, he did recover it and then I watched him engage and shoot down another guy.
That crap happens...all...the...time. Sure, you can get a quick kill every now and then but that's the exception, not the rule. That's why the 190F-1 was so reviled. You would end up blowing all your cannon ammo on one encounter that you probably wouldn't even kill and then you were left with just 2x7.9mm to defend yourself which is totally inadequate.
Other way around, your example is the exception to the rule. WW2OL and IL2's damage models are setup to work as I depicted earlier. Whether or not it happens 100% of the time is irrelevant, even in AH weird anomalies happen from time to time. An error in coding does not change the fact that the principle of the basic damage model is setup in a more realistic damage model than what AH has right now.
Regardless you can find prime examples in ALL flight games where physics seems to be redefined by flaws in coding.
AH is setup to where the flight characteristics of the aircraft are NOT effected until the control surface reaches 100% structural integrity damage and the flight surface falls off of the aircraft.
WW2OL and IL2 are setup in the same way except that the flight characteristics ARE effected even if the flight control surface has been shot off. IF you take damage to the wing, even though the wing has not fallen off, the flight characteristics of the aircraft have changed due to the damage.
The basic setups is what you need to look at, not the exceptions.
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You two need to smell Grizz's feet....geez...
Changeup
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The 90% is true, yes most of the kills are pilot kills, which is pretty consistent with RL. But you cannot fly around soaking up ammo like you can here in AH. I have literally fallen through the sky in WW2OL purely because my plane has taken so much damage that the lift capabilities of the control surfaces could not keep the plane in the air.
Please watch this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/user/1epic1#p/a/u/0/-8Y4l-uEMCY
The video shows many examples of parts falling off of aircraft as well as planes being killed due to fires and being damaged to the point that the control surfaces can not provide lift to the aircraft.
If you take damage here in AH your planes' flight characteristics is not effected until a control surface falls off the aircraft, this is not the case in WW2OL or IL2 which makes these two games' damage model better than AH. Although they do lack the flight model of AH
Holy Credibility Gap Batman! You can't really believe 90% of kills were due to pilot death, do you? :huh
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Who says IL-2 uses hit boxes? You can actually track every hit you've made exactly on which spot by using one of the game options in IL-2.
The problem with IL-2 DM is that the more sophisticated the DM becomes, the discrepancy between real life pilot reaction and us game pilot reactio begin to really show. For instance, many people still whine how .50s are undermodelled in IL-2, except from the receiving end the .50 does about as much damage as can be expected - instant flight surface/structural failures are very rare, but internal damage and flight destabilization being very common, and the no.1 killing factor when receiving .50 attacks tend to be black puffy engines and fires.
The thing is, real life pilots would not think twice about bugging out when they decide their rides are in no condition to fight any longer. They'd attempt to escape, and if even that seems unlikely, they'd just simply jump out. However, game pilots usually fight to the end until they drop dead. You could mess up a lot of internal systems on the plane, make it trail smoke, snag a control cable or two, shred a wing which starts drooping due to lack of lift, bust the oil pan to grease the entire windshield, hit the pilot so his vision goes all bloody red.... and yet, still the game pilot squirms and wobbles around trying to fight back.
It's because of this that its tougher to get kills with .50s in IL-2. The damage model's more realistic and sophisticated, but the pilots aren't. You have to keep stuffing in the .50s until the target is ablaze or loses a wing or a tail - and with the better DM, that's a tough objective to achieve without cannons.
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What i would like to see for the damage model is that when you get hit in and around an elevator say instead of loosing the whole elevator you loose bit's of it. But as well if the enemy fire also hits the control surface cable's then you hear a twang and oh dear your left elevator although still there but wont work Help you now cant bank left or right as the cable's have now been cut :(
This is also what brought most plane in WW2 down the fact that enemy fire had cut control cable's thus making the plane un-flyable.
That's what i would like see in future damage model upgrade's :)
Thanks BulletVI