Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Killer91 on August 10, 2010, 10:23:46 PM
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I know there's a few car guys on here so I'm gonna ask y'all first before I take my car anywhere b/c the closest Honda dealer is 50 miles away.
I have a 2000 Honda Accord EX that's been acting up for a few months. Some times when i go out to start it, it won't start. The engine will turn over and everything else works fine. The engine just won't start. Occasionally it will start and the car will run fine with no problems what so ever. Ever now and then it will start and run for a 2 - 3 seconds and die and then won't start back. I've not found any pattern as to when it will start and when it won't. It seems to be totally random. Also when it won't start it's sometimes a few days before it will start again and sometimes a few minutes. This seems to be totally random to.
I tested the sparks plugs one day while it wouldn't start and they were firing fine so I don't think it could be them. I'm at a complete loss as to what causing this. Had one guy in town say it was the alarm system shutting down the fuel pump but I'm not believing that since I don't do anything to trigger the alarm.
Any one ever come across anything like this before or know what causing it?
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Coolant temp sensor? Theres a way to check for faults without scanner, cant remember. Turn ign on and press gas pedal 5 times, check Eng light should flash the fault number....something like that. Try googling it, good luck.
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I'm not a very good fix-it guy either. Things make more sense with 70's cars like my ol' Trans Am. :D
Fuel would be my next logical step. Is the engine getting it? Is the pump working, and how long since the fuel filter was changed?
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Coolant temp sensor? Theres a way to check for faults without scanner, cant remember. Turn ign on and press gas pedal 5 times, check Eng light should flash the fault number....something like that. Try googling it, good luck.
Man I spent a long time one day on google and never came across anything like that. I'll try it tomorrow and see if anything happens.
I'm not a very good fix-it guy either. Things make more sense with 70's cars like my ol' Trans Am. :D
Fuel would be my next logical step. Is the engine getting it? Is the pump working, and how long since the fuel filter was changed?
I'm assuming the fuel isn't making it to the engine. And to be honest i'm not sure about the fuel filter. I've had it for nine months and i haven't done anything to it. But if it was the fuel pump or fuel filter it seems that it would be constant. But the fact that it will start and run perfectly sometimes makes me think its couln't be those. But I don't know much about this so I could be 100% wrong to.
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I had the same problem, Killer - it was the key.
I guess these new-fangled keys have a sensor which communicates with some thingamajig in the part you put the key into.
When the thing in my key was running out (or whatever), it did the same random thing you're talking about.
That sounded much clearer in my head.
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I had the same problem, Killer - it was the key.
I guess these new-fangled keys have a sensor which communicates with some thingamajig in the part you put the key into.
When the thing in my key was running out (or whatever), it did the same random thing you're talking about.
That sounded much clearer in my head.
That makes sense. I haven't even thought about that. It does have one of those special keys. And I have another key that I never use so I'll try it next time.
Did you have to have a new key made or was it something they could fix in the key?
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I tossed my key in the junk drawer in the kitchen and have been using my husband's key - no problems since the switch.
I keep meaning to take my key to the dealer to get them to do whatever they have to do - haven't gotten around to it yet... and probably won't bother to do it until the key I'm using stops working. :)
*edit* I don't know if they'd replace the key, or the thing in it. I was just gonna say "fix it," and come back when it was fixed.
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CC. I'll definately give that a try. Thank you so much for the info. Hopefully that'll be it and it will save me a trip to the dealership and a few hundred bucks! :pray
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Loose connection at the brake pad terminal............ :bolt:
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corroded rocker panel? :uhoh
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Low blinker fluid, left rear.
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I know there's a few car guys on here so I'm gonna ask y'all first before I take my car anywhere b/c the closest Honda dealer is 50 miles away.
I have a 2000 Honda Accord EX that's been acting up for a few months. Some times when i go out to start it, it won't start. The engine will turn over and everything else works fine. The engine just won't start. Occasionally it will start and the car will run fine with no problems what so ever. Ever now and then it will start and run for a 2 - 3 seconds and die and then won't start back. I've not found any pattern as to when it will start and when it won't. It seems to be totally random. Also when it won't start it's sometimes a few days before it will start again and sometimes a few minutes. This seems to be totally random to.
I tested the sparks plugs one day while it wouldn't start and they were firing fine so I don't think it could be them. I'm at a complete loss as to what causing this. Had one guy in town say it was the alarm system shutting down the fuel pump but I'm not believing that since I don't do anything to trigger the alarm.
Any one ever come across anything like this before or know what causing it?
at first, i was thinking the main relay, which is either behind and below the center console, or under the left side of the dash board.....till you mentioned the fact that you have spark when it's not starting.
next time it doesn't start, listen for the fuel pump. you can do this by turning the key from off to run, but do not crank. it should run for 2 seconds, and you should hear it hum. if you can't hear it that way, get a helper, and put a funnel in the filler neck, and listen through that as the helper cycels the key.
that all said....check basics. fuel filter, air filter. if there's a port...it'll look almost like a tire valve stem.....check for fuel pressure.....with a rag handy, and safety glasses on, use a small phillips screwdriver to push the schraeder valve in.
does the car have a transponder key? sometimes they go bad. there was a problem with chryslers with the transponder keys, running on the same frequency as the speedy pays used at some gas stations. they'd get towed to the dealer, and there, they'd start.
can't think of much else just now........
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well I'm not a mechanic per se, i grew up working on muscle cars so the computer controlled garbage is not really within my purview, but i drive a tow truck for a living and this is actually a more common problem than you would think.
in every case that this type of scenario has been described to me the end results have been one of three related issues
1. the fuel pump relay has developed moisture/corrosion inside and needs to be replaced
2. the wire harness under the control box, beneath the fuel pump relay, has loosened and/or developed corrosion on the connectors and needs to be serviced
3. the fuel pump drive motor has deteriorated internally. unlike when the fuel pump diaphram goes bad and you lose the ability to develop any pump pressure, the fuel pump drive motor can be an intermitten problem. it is an electrical motor with windings and connection points that can corrode and/or break down.
a couple simple tests that generally works with fords and chevy products, next time your car wont start first lift the hood and locate the box holding the relays, locate which relay is the fuel relay. when you locate the fuel pump wiggle it, see if the plugs have excessive play, then remove the relay. inspect the seat of the relay and the prongs that come from the bottom of it for signs of corrosion, next rattle the relay, you should feel something moving inside it when shaking it, this is the switch inside the relay which should move freely. lastly look to see if another one of the relays in the box is a match for the fuel pump relay, if so swap them. try to restart the vehicle, if it starts then the problem is likely at this end of things. if it does not restart and you found no obvious signs of damage push the original relay back in its place. next is to take a rubber mallet/your foot/or some other soft faced implement and strike the fuel tank firmly and repeatedly. then try to start the vehicle. if it starts then its likely the fuel pump itself is junk.
these tend to be the most common problem areas. i have gotten many vehicles restarted and on their way by these methods. occasionally none of them work and i wind up towing the vehicle, but at least this may give you a way of narrowing down your likely issue.
take it easy and good luck
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I was wrong, here you go.
Take a paperclip and put it in the obdII port under the left hand side of the dash under the steering wheel. Stick it into holes 8 and 15 and then turn on the ignition but dont start it. Read the code, CEL will flash the code number( if there is any) then see chart below....
1...............P0131,P0132....................... .........Primary heated O2 sensor circuit low/high voltage
3...............P0107,P0108....................... .........Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor circuit low/high voltage
4.............. P0335,P0336.................................Cranks haft position sensor
5.............. P1128,P1129.................................Map sensor circuit low/high voltage
6...............P0117,P0118....................... .........Electronic Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor circuit low/high input
7...............P0122,P0123,P1121,P1122........... Throttle position sensor (TPS) circuit low/high input
8...............P1359,P1361,P1362................. ....CKP/TDC sensor 1
9...............P1381,P1382....................... .........CYP Sensor
10.............P0112,P0113........................ ........Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor circuit low/high input
12.............P1491,P1498........................ ........EGR valve
13.............P1106,P1107,P1108.................. ...Barometric pressure sensor
14.............P0505,P1519........................ .........IAC valve
17.............P0500......... ..................... ..............VSS fault
20.............P1297,P1298........................ .........Electric Load Detector (ELD)
21.............P1253......... ..................... ..............VTEC
22.............P1257,P1258,P1259.................. ....VTEC
23.............P0325......... ..................... ..............Knock sensor
41.............P0135,P1166,P1167.................. ....Primary heated O2 sensor
45.............P0171,P0172........................ .........System adaptive fuel too lean/rich
48.............P1162......... ..................... ..............Primary heated O2 sensor
58.............P1366,P1367........................ .........TDC sensor 2
61.............P0133,P1149,P1163,64,65............ Primary heated O2 sensor
63.............P0137,38,39........................ ...........Secondary heated O2 sensor
65.............P0141......... ..................... ...............Secondary heated O2 sensor
67.............P0420......... ..................... ...............Catalyst system efficiency below threshold
70.............P0715,20,25,30,40,53,58,63......... .Automatic transaxle malfunction
71.............P0300,P0301........................ ..........Random/Cylinder 1 misfire
72.............P0302......... ..................... ...............Cylinder 2 misfire
73.............P0303......... ..................... ...............Cylinder 3 misfire
74.............P0304......... ..................... ...............Cylinder 4 misfire
75.............P0305......... ..................... ...............Cylinder 5 misfire
76.............P0306......... ..................... ...............Cylinder 6 misfire
80.............P0401......... ..................... ...............EGR insufficient flow
86.............P0116......... ..................... ...............Electronic Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor range/performance
90.............P1456,P1457........................ ..........EVAP control system leak
91.............P0452,P0453........................ ..........EVAP fuel tank pressure sensor low/high input
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Deleted, double post
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Thanks for all the suggestions.
Of course now that I post a thread about its problem the car has started fine 6 times today. :rolleyes:
soooooooooo now i'm just waaiting for it to mess up again so i can try some of things that have been pointed out..
Thats the thing about it though. Its so random i never know if its gonna start or not.
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does it only happen if the car has been sitting for a long period of time, like over night, or when you come out of work ?
Prehaps Water in the gas tank??? or rust in the gas tank floting, settle, get picked up by the sump.
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No it seems to be completely random. Temperature, time between driving it, time of the day, nothing seems make it worse or make it better.
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No it seems to be completely random. Temperature, time between driving it, time of the day, nothing seems make it worse or make it better.
that's more and more sounding like a relay
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that's more and more sounding like a relay
Is there any way I could check that here at my house without having to hook it up to one of them computers?
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Is there any way I could check that here at my house without having to hook it up to one of them computers?
yea. the relays flotsam mentioned are in the underhood junction box. the ones i'm thinking of should be under the dash, either near the center console, or near the hood release.....but up higher to hide them. sometimes just a tap on them will make them work, almost like an old turnsignal flasher.
if you can't find them, try to note conditions when it next doesn't start......like temp, humidity, if it's been sitting all night, etc.
most things aren't intermittant. fuel pumps rarely go intermittant. same with ignition coils, and/or crank or cam sensors. relays, however, still seem to do this.
if it acts up again, keep feeding us information......we'll get it figured out for ya. :aok
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that's more and more sounding like a relay
or something that hasn't even been mentioned and is the simplest to check: Ground wire is jacked up.
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or something that hasn't even been mentioned and is the simplest to check: Ground wire is jacked up.
the only thing that kept me from that, was that it doesn't die while he's driving.
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I had the same problem, Killer - it was the key.
I guess these new-fangled keys have a sensor which communicates with some thingamajig in the part you put the key into.
When the thing in my key was running out (or whatever), it did the same random thing you're talking about.
That sounded much clearer in my head.
My mum had a '01 accord that had a fit due to the security key thing, she had some unofficial duplicates made. Difference in issues though that makes me suspect it might not be your issue though: 1) the engine wouldn't start or turn over and 2) the ignition won't release the key (4-stage ignition, wouldn't let you access the first-stage key-insertion stage after you put the bad key in and turned it beyong the first-stage). A quick way to check this is to figure out what the bad key is and use it (or in my mom's case, a quick fix to get it working enough to avoid a tow and get it to the dealer to properly fix): when you encounter a problem requiring a proper-working radio-transmiter code then hold the plastic part of the good key right next to the ignition while attempting to use the funky key.
yea. the relays flotsam mentioned are in the underhood junction box. the ones i'm thinking of should be under the dash, either near the center console, or near the hood release.....but up higher to hide them.
Honda it's closer to the hood release, left of the wheel, typicaly a/the removable pannel just below the change-holder below the vent. Your old turnsignal flasher reference has me thinking of the little box tucked up behind the center console that makes the only anoying thing with my honda, the open-door key-in-ignition beeping/tone. And it might be the ground, but it'd be easier than eating cake to check if it's a contender or not (corroded or damaged), honda grounds are right up top under the hood, typicaly somewhere ontop of the radiator or ontop one of the wheel wells.
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yea. the relays flotsam mentioned are in the underhood junction box. the ones i'm thinking of should be under the dash, either near the center console, or near the hood release.....but up higher to hide them. sometimes just a tap on them will make them work, almost like an old turnsignal flasher.
if you can't find them, try to note conditions when it next doesn't start......like temp, humidity, if it's been sitting all night, etc.
most things aren't intermittant. fuel pumps rarely go intermittant. same with ignition coils, and/or crank or cam sensors. relays, however, still seem to do this.
if it acts up again, keep feeding us information......we'll get it figured out for ya. :aok
ok I'll go look for them and look at them. also i've drove it twice today and started it 8 times without a single problem :headscratch:
When it acts up again i'll note conditions. and then i'm gonna listen for the fuel pump and if i hear it I'll try the other key i have.
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My mum had a '01 accord that had a fit due to the security key thing, she had some unofficial duplicates made. Difference in issues though that makes me suspect it might not be your issue though: 1) the engine wouldn't start or turn over and 2) the ignition won't release the key (4-stage ignition, wouldn't let you access the first-stage key-insertion stage after you put the bad key in and turned it beyong the first-stage). A quick way to check this is to figure out what the bad key is and use it (or in my mom's case, a quick fix to get it working enough to avoid a tow and get it to the dealer to properly fix): when you encounter a problem requiring a proper-working radio-transmiter code then hold the plastic part of the good key right next to the ignition while attempting to use the funky key.
Honda it's closer to the hood release, left of the wheel, typicaly a/the removable pannel just below the change-holder below the vent. Your old turnsignal flasher reference has me thinking of the little box tucked up behind the center console that makes the only anoying thing with my honda, the open-door key-in-ignition beeping/tone. And it might be the ground, but it'd be easier than eating cake to check if it's a contender or not (corroded or damaged), honda grounds are right up top under the hood, typicaly somewhere ontop of the radiator or ontop one of the wheel wells.
there's some grounds on the thermostat housing too, along with one on the valve cover.
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KGB, as far as I know there is no way to retrieve trouble codes on these Honda's without a scan tool. I know some Fords and Chrysler products can but not the Honda.
I'm banking on the main relay as well. Next time it won't start, try kicking your foot up around the area of the relay and see if it starts. It is extremely common for these to fail on Honda vehicles, and they usually do so when it is hot outside, especially if the car is sitting out in the sun.
THIS (http://www.lca.ympsa.com/mainrelay.pdf) and THIS (http://www.lca.ympsa.com/mainrelay2.pdf) will show you the location (basically under the dash right by the steering column).
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KGB, as far as I know there is no way to retrieve trouble codes on these Honda's without a scan tool. I know some Fords and Chrysler products can but not the Honda.
I'm banking on the main relay as well. Next time it won't start, try kicking your foot up around the area of the relay and see if it starts. It is extremely common for these to fail on Honda vehicles, and they usually do so when it is hot outside, especially if the car is sitting out in the sun.
THIS (http://www.lca.ympsa.com/mainrelay.pdf) and THIS (http://www.lca.ympsa.com/mainrelay2.pdf) will show you the location (basically under the dash right by the steering column).
Indeed it does sit in the sun. And it's been quite hot here this summer. Now that i know where it is and what it looks like I'll be sure and rattle it next time it won't start.
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KGB, as far as I know there is no way to retrieve trouble codes on these Honda's without a scan tool. I know some Fords and Chrysler products can but not the Honda.
I'm banking on the main relay as well. Next time it won't start, try kicking your foot up around the area of the relay and see if it starts. It is extremely common for these to fail on Honda vehicles, and they usually do so when it is hot outside, especially if the car is sitting out in the sun.
THIS (http://www.lca.ympsa.com/mainrelay.pdf) and THIS (http://www.lca.ympsa.com/mainrelay2.pdf) will show you the location (basically under the dash right by the steering column).
i was thinking that.......i haven't been able to pull codes out of any OBD2 car without one of my scanners
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kinda funny thing here. i have a 93 acura legend out in the shop. basically a honda. came in for a no start/no crank. bad starter. put it in, fire the engine up, perfectly. button everything up, take it down off the lift, crank........no start. WTF?? i punched the dash right at the hood release(that's where the main relay is on these) and she fired right up. it's raining too BTW.
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there's some grounds on the thermostat housing too, along with one on the valve cover.
Don't even get me started on (older-model) honda thermostats, grounds, housings and all, a pox on them! :D
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well this is the third day in a row now that I've had 0 problems what so ever :headscratch:
I guess I'll play the waiting game with it and when it does mess up I'll try the stuff you guys have suggested.
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well this is the third day in a row now that I've had 0 problems what so ever :headscratch:
I guess I'll play the waiting game with it and when it does mess up I'll try the stuff you guys have suggested.
Hopefuly it won't be at an inconvenient moment for you though. Is there a simple test or visual check he can perform on the relay in its current state to see if it looks good or potentialy faulty, or do ya really just have to wait for it to fail?
kinda funny thing here. i have a 93 acura legend out in the shop. basically a honda. came in for a no start/no crank. bad starter. put it in, fire the engine up, perfectly. button everything up, take it down off the lift, crank........no start. WTF?? i punched the dash right at the hood release(that's where the main relay is on these) and she fired right up. it's raining too BTW.
Twas probabley a decent starter to begin with until the owner kept attemting to start the car too much due to the bad relay. Honda starters don't really take a beating or much abuse to go, I've had to replace a couple that went bad due to another problem.
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Hopefuly it won't be at an inconvenient moment for you though. Is there a simple test or visual check he can perform on the relay in its current state to see if it looks good or potentialy faulty, or do ya really just have to wait for it to fail?
Twas probabley a decent starter to begin with until the owner kept attemting to start the car too much due to the bad relay. Honda starters don't really take a beating or much abuse to go, I've had to replace a couple that went bad due to another problem.
nah.....the starter is seized inside. he drove it through what he calls a puddle. the rest of us call it part of the bay.
unfortunately, there is no visual test to do on the relay. his options are the tap test when it acts up, or to pre-emptively replace it.
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nah.....the starter is seized inside. he drove it through what he calls a puddle. the rest of us call it part of the bay.
unfortunately, there is no visual test to do on the relay. his options are the tap test when it acts up, or to pre-emptively replace it.
:rofl might be my lil brothers long lost twin there.
Understood about the relay, I hate car issues like that.
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:rofl might be my lil brothers long lost twin there.
Understood about the relay, I hate car issues like that.
Me to lol. I'm not taking it out of town untill I figure out whats wrong with it. I'm not taking that risk lol