Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oakranger on August 14, 2010, 03:38:43 PM
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.....but i can not post the topic do to skuzzy rule.
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lol
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HOW MAD ARE YOU?????? :furious :furious
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HOW MAD ARE YOU?????? :furious :furious
So mad that i want to leave this country.
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So mad that i want to leave this country.
PM me? :aok
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Leave country, to where? Most likely people thsere are mad too and they want to move here.
Semp
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Can we have a hint?
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(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:tCYg-ylOino26M:http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8112/lolumad.jpg&t=1)
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Can we have a hint?
I reckon it's for the same reason I'm pissed. Carry your anger to the voting box. I sure as hell will Oakranger. :salute
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Can someone PM me? I live all the way in KY and know not of what you Midwestern folks are talking about.
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I reckon it's for the same reason I'm pissed. Carry your anger to the voting box. I sure as hell will Oakranger. :salute
whats the point....seriously.
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Can someone PM me? I live all the way in KY and know not of what you Midwestern folks are talking about.
I'd like some info too, please.
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OK here it is. BroBama says he cool with a Muslim church being built near the 9/11 ground zero site. I don't know about you guys, but that kind of ruffles my feathers.
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OK here it is. BroBama says he cool with a Muslim church being built near the 9/11 ground zero site. I don't know about you guys, but that kind of ruffles my feathers.
It's in the constitution, as much as we don't like it we cant do anything about it.
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It's in the constitution, as much as we don't like it we cant do anything about it.
Wont stop some people
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:rofl I really wish I could discuss this with you Tupac. You're are entitled to you opinion, but at some point, we as Americans have to use common sense when we're at war. It wasn't me that called for a Jihad. The Muslims did.
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aaaand here it is
http://www.midnightbeach.com/jon/US-Constitution.htm
and just for fun
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights.html
I don't like it either. I find it insulting and the people who thought this was a good idea should be ashamed of themselves. If you want your religion to be respected you should show respect to others that might not share your opinion. Actually not a bad rule of thumb for everyone in life. What was it that quote I heard? The true mark of intellectual honesty is not only the respect of the but solicitation of points of view that may differ from your own. Meh .... something like that *switches back into clown mode and goes looking for threads that have comedy potential..
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Absolutely true Uptown, never thought of it like that.
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There is the freedom that one has under the constitution, and there is that freedom that one has that goes to far.
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Dang it Oak I don't want to get serious but you're forcing me into it.
You are ABSOLUTELY correct. I am much more angry about it than I want to admit. The problem is that they are LEGALLY allowed to do so. Are we at war with Islam? My opinion is no. Are we at war with people who hide behind a religion and want the entire world to kneel at their feet? Yes. The people who chose and choose to make war on us and other nations who do not embrace their point of view need to be brought to justice. I've read the Koran and I've seen how it can be interpreted that if you're not a practicing member of their 'faith' then they can intellectualize their actions however wrong it can be to our points of view. Do I think these people need to be brought to justice? Nope.. they need to be eradicated with extreme prejudice.
The problem is that they know for a fact that they can't stand up to our armed forces. Put an army on the field against the US and whoever decides to join us for the award for the best supporting actress and you WILL get the crap kicked out of you if the President even considers himself or *shudder* herself a leader of a free nation. Sadly that day will never come. Would I absolutely LOVE it if we went to the Middle East and anywhere these fanatics consider home, root them out, and dispose of them? Sure thing. The problem, in my eyes at least, is that we are SO concerned with the court of world opinion that we allow our hands to be tied and limit our objectives to 'strategic targets'.
Screw that I say. When the first Private steps off of whatever mode of transportation he or she's on I want our adversaries going 'whoops we done screwed up'.
Of course that's just my opinion others may disagree.
Unfortunately we have to adhere to the law and not common sense these days.
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perhaps we should PM each other on the topic.
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Fire away sir... I like to laugh on the boards but I'm always welcome to an intellectual discussion. :salute
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I agree with all of you here. I'm outraged too. They do have a right to build it, but in my opinion, it seems like a deliberate slap in the face to all Americans. I can't wait until Greg Gutfeld's bar opens right next to them. That will be priceless! :rofl
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and a HOOTERS, Twin Peaks, and a Coyote Ugly, now THAT would be CLASSIC..
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Now that I have been brought up to speed... I feel like ranting and going off like I'm
(http://www.unclebarky.com/reviews_files/page3_blog_entry367_2.jpg)
But I LOVE my bbs account, so I'll savor my anger, and next time I vote, I'll have moved somewhere where my entire state's population isn't the opposite party as the one in question, and possibly be in say Cal. where my vote could possibly count for something. I didn't say anything political that could ban me from this bbs, did I? If so, pile on and let me know.
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"Raving stark mad" at the moment, I'm sure after I good night's sleep and a few great dreams I'll be even more so in the morning!!!!! :joystick: :joystick: :joystick: :old:
:cheers:
I feel so tranquil now. Don't we all? :cool:
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OK here it is. BroBama says he cool with a Muslim church being built near the 9/11 ground zero site. I don't know about you guys, but that kind of ruffles my feathers.
BroBama
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:rofl I really wish I could discuss this with you Tupac. You're are entitled to you opinion, but at some point, we as Americans have to use common sense when we're at war. It wasn't me that called for a Jihad. The Muslims did.
See theres the problem, it's a small sect of them that called for that, why condemn an entire people because of a few bad apples. It's like saying because theres some Neo Nazi white guys calling for the extermination of all other races that all white people must be that way.
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Thank God for our Constitution.
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(was the no discussing politics or religion rule revoked?)
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:devil
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PM it, like i said. It better that way then for skuzzy coming in.
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OK lets start with the disclaimer....I am American born, white anglo-saxon christian by heritage. so I'm not happy about what some fanatics have done to MY people either.
but i have a question as a counterpoint to this discussion, how many christian/Jewish based Church's have been built upon the land that once was considered holy or sacred by another people? how many of our modern Church's and cathedrals were erected to cover the foot print once left by those who named another god?
in my heart i feel the anger, but in my head i find the truth.......let him without sin be first to cast a stone! we cannot now be angered by the actions of others when we ourselves have committed the same and many worse transgressions against others.
one more point i should mention, people of many religions died on 9/11, and many of those that died that day were (obviously not including those that committed the crimes) were of the Muslim persuasion.
i do not personally care for the Islamic religion, but i am also not born of Muslim blood. i did, a long time ago, read the Koran, i found it a beautiful work of literature, but not something that would capture my heart and soul. but as a counter point to that statement i am born of christian blood and have read the bible and many other books related to the history of Christianity, but still care not at all for any type of organized establishment that tells me how or who to call god.
if you would hate an entire people for the actions of a very limited few then you have no reason to complain about or be angered by the actions of those who retaliate against us for what WE as Americans, Christians and whites have done to all other races creeds and cultures, including but not limited to the actions of those terrorist on 9/11.
you are a hypocrite if you make demands for revenge against those you should first be seeking redemption from.
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Well gents, I am going to risk the lock but here.
Why are we building a monument to the enemy of the freeworld near the site of the declaration of war. Its like building a beerhall putch memorial at Auschwitz.
Its not only immoral, but disgraceful and an insult to all those who died, people who just got out of bed to go to work like everyone of us do every day. It should not happen. And if it does well then even if I am not an American, I will have nothing to say about the US government other than things I cannot say on here.
If things keep on like this, I would be happy to see another 1776.
Hell I might even fly over and help.
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Can we get a hint?
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Can I get a clue?
fixed
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OK lets start with the disclaimer....I am American born, white anglo-saxon christian by heritage. so I'm not happy about what some fanatics have done to MY people either.
but i have a question as a counterpoint to this discussion, how many christian/Jewish based Church's have been built upon the land that once was considered holy or sacred by another people? how many of our modern Church's and cathedrals were erected to cover the foot print once left by those who named another god?
in my heart i feel the anger, but in my head i find the truth.......let him without sin be first to cast a stone! we cannot now be angered by the actions of others when we ourselves have committed the same and many worse transgressions against others.
one more point i should mention, people of many religions died on 9/11, and many of those that died that day were (obviously not including those that committed the crimes) were of the Muslim persuasion.
i do not personally care for the Islamic religion, but i am also not born of Muslim blood. i did, a long time ago, read the Koran, i found it a beautiful work of literature, but not something that would capture my heart and soul. but as a counter point to that statement i am born of christian blood and have read the bible and many other books related to the history of Christianity, but still care not at all for any type of organized establishment that tells me how or who to call god.
if you would hate an entire people for the actions of a very limited few then you have no reason to complain about or be angered by the actions of those who retaliate against us for what WE as Americans, Christians and whites have done to all other races creeds and cultures, including but not limited to the actions of those terrorist on 9/11.
you are a hypocrite if you make demands for revenge against those you should first be seeking redemption from.
well put, I've been wanting to say that but you put it far better than I ever could, due to me being highly inarticulate and overall very clumsy with words.
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Well gents, I am going to risk the lock but here.
Why are we building a monument to the enemy of the freeworld near the site of the declaration of war. Its like building a beerhall putch memorial at Auschwitz.
Its not only immoral, but disgraceful and an insult to all those who died, people who just got out of bed to go to work like everyone of us do every day. It should not happen. And if it does well then even if I am not an American, I will have nothing to say about the US government other than things I cannot say on here.
If things keep on like this, I would be happy to see another 1776.
Hell I might even fly over and help.
Yeah your right, I mean what kinda place do these people think America is, the kind of place that's tolerant of all peoples?
How about we just convict all of them & throw them all out of America once & for all just based on the vocal minority, because thats what Americas all about right?
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This one' goINg to get locked. IN no time.
BroBama :rofl :rofl
BTW. I didnt vote for him.
<S> Oz
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I could post some more pictures of witches.....
:bolt:
On a semi-serious note, well said Flotsam.
:salute
wrongway
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Certain things are guaranteed in certain places whether we like it or not.
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Orignal posting was childish and just looking for attention, lots of people took the bite which was the rason for this thread.
Semp
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OK here it is. BroBama says he cool with a Muslim church being built near the 9/11 ground zero site. I don't know about you guys, but that kind of ruffles my feathers.
It will get torched.
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Pretty sure the families of these folks are pretty mad too.
http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm (http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm)
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Well gents, I am going to risk the lock but here.
snip
There's a Forum which is more receptive to these discussions--I'd put up the Link, but I think that might violate A coMplEtely different rule...(not sure Which one), but non-Ah RefeRences lIke the preceding Ought be discouRaged in thiS place
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Ok,
As a native New Yorker and a person who has parents who were rescue workers at Ground Zero (Mom, NYPD Retired 2004, Dad, NYPD Retired 2009) let me say that the mosque is being contested for the wrong reasons.
The main reason why this mosque has no right to exist is that the vast majority of the muslim population in NYC live in the outer boroughs of the city.
The main population is based in Brooklyn with the rest being scattered around in Queens and the Bronx with a very slim minority being based in Manhattan.
Why make it so that your congregation must commute to downtown Manhattan?
The only thing this points to is that they want to make a statment by doing the equivalent of going to ground zero, pulling down their pants, and slapping their behinds at us while mooing loudly.
It's an insult directed at NYC and the US by building a mosque that close to hallowed ground.
Sorry If I get the thread locked but that's basically the situation that we're dealing with right now.
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if you would hate an entire people for the actions of a very limited few then you have no reason to complain about or be angered by the actions of those who retaliate against us for what WE as Americans, Christians and whites have done to all other races creeds and cultures, including but not limited to the actions of those terrorist on 9/11.
you are a hypocrite if you make demands for revenge against those you should first be seeking redemption from.
Good old white American guilt huh? No thanks, I believe the good we have done in the world far outweighs the bad.
Most of these big affronts we have committed occurred last century. Of late we bend over backwards for every other religion, creed, nationality.
They seem intent on bending us over forwards.
Why can't non white, non Christians ever show some political correctness toward us?
They have the right to build a damn mosque wherever so why do it there, other than to stick their middle finger in our faces and laugh at us?
I won't be consumed with white guilt when the thing is constantly vandalized and maybe destroyed by angry people either, but then that's probably what they hope will happen isn't it? so they can play the race, victim card against us evil Americans.
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Good old white American guilt huh? No thanks, I believe the good we have done in the world far outweighs the bad.
Most of these big affronts we have committed occurred last century. Of late we bend over backwards for every other religion, creed, nationality.
They seem intent on bending us over forwards.
Why can't non white, non Christians ever show some political correctness toward us?
They have the right to build a damn mosque wherever so why do it there, other than to stick their middle finger in our faces and laugh at us?
I won't be consumed with white guilt when the thing is constantly vandalized and maybe destroyed by angry people either, but then that's probably what they hope will happen isn't it? so they can play the race, victim card against us evil Americans.
I understand your point and trust in this, I suffer NO white guilt syndrome!
I am half French and half German and extremely proud of the accomplishments of my forfathers and my heritage.
But one thing that I have besides pride is a sense of right and wrong, and the knowledge that if you perpetuate evil upon others then you have no room for complaint when they return the favor.
Now do not misconstrue what i have said as a statement that i believe that 9/11 was justified in ANY manner!
what i am saying is that we ourselves have been guilty of equal if not greater atrocities but we demand that the world allow us to put Church's and Synagogues and the like anywhere and everywhere, including on the ground soaked in the blood of those we have concored.
They want a mosque of some significance and they want it in a place that symbolises their own losses of the past how many hundred years that Christians/Jews have been butchering them.
they want to be accepted as equals in the world and they want to be a part of the world. what better way to symbolise this than to place a mosque in a place that world discusses everyday? they, as a world community and culture, want to separate themselves from the fanatics and those who would preach violence as a solution. they wish to establish a symbol of solidarity with the world against the action of those few extremist who disgrace the name of Allah and Islam.
remember Muslim blood was spilled that day, not just the blood of guilty white people. actually, many of those that died on that day were not white or Christian/Jewish. Many races cultures and religions may make claim to suffering losses from those despicable acts on that day.
Question......How many Church's and Synagogues are now standing in Jerusalem????? How many Muslims died for that to be possible??? Should the Muslims be allowed to knock those buildings down because they are obviously an affront and an insult to the memory of every Muslim that died at the hands of those who invaded their home?
if they want a Mosque, let them build it. let them build it in peace to show that we, those of us who are white and non-Muslim, respect those of the Muslim faith that do not preach violence and those many many Muslims who have given and are continuing to give their lives in the fight against fanatical terrorist and extremists.
To preempt the obvious arguments that will arise from my reference to Israel and Jerusalem because Christian and Jewish alike believe that their ancestors once owned it and were therefor entitled to retaking it, i would say if that is the argument then we (whites, Christians/Jewish) have no grounds for complaint about the tragedy of 9/11, the only people who would have the right to complain about any attack on the mainland of the USA, would be the American Indians.
let those who would live in peace with us live their lives with the same respect dignity and honor that we ourselves demand in the lands of others that we have harmed and yet reside in.
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I agree with Flotsom, what better way to show the radical Muslims of the world that what they did that day didn't change us as a people or make us hate all Muslims because of the actions of a few bad apples that distort the teachings of that faith, because thats one of the things they really wanted that day was to make this a war of us against all Muslim people of the world and unfortunately it seems that they were able to accomplish that.
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I understand your point and trust in this, I suffer NO white guilt syndrome!
I am half French and half German and extremely proud of the accomplishments of my forfathers and my heritage.
But one thing that I have besides pride is a sense of right and wrong, and the knowledge that if you perpetuate evil upon others then you have no room for complaint when they return the favor.
Now do not misconstrue what i have said as a statement that i believe that 9/11 was justified in ANY manner!
what i am saying is that we ourselves have been guilty of equal if not greater atrocities but we demand that the world allow us to put Church's and Synagogues and the like anywhere and everywhere, including on the ground soaked in the blood of those we have concored.
Hundreds upon hundreds of years ago, when society was still ruled by the roman catholic church and we were fresh off the collapse of the roman empire,this argument is valid. Or is it? The crusades came about only because the muslim empires conquered and killed and kept proding at the the christian empires untill finally, that's enough of these shenanagins, CRUSADE! And we are not guilty of greater attrocities, as the modern radical islam is MODERN. What is this the 1500's? Attacking western countries Just because we aren't islam. Well, that's just uncalled for.
They want a mosque of some significance and they want it in a place that symbolises their own losses of the past how many hundred years that Christians/Jews have been butchering them.
I think there should be a guide to retribution. Almost like a time limit. I think 800 years is enough time to forgive and forget, dont you think? This whole killing of innocent civilians and using the excuse of retribution thing is getting really old and unapllicable. It's like saying, "Gee, remember how Great britain burned washington DC in the war of 1812? I think we should massacre everbody in britain because of it."
they want to be accepted as equals in the world and they want to be a part of the world. what better way to symbolise this than to place a mosque in a place that world discusses everyday? they, as a world community and culture, want to separate themselves from the fanatics and those who would preach violence as a solution. they wish to establish a symbol of solidarity with the world against the action of those few extremist who disgrace the name of Allah and Islam.
They don't want to move away from the extremists. The original teachings of islam call for violence against non muslims and no assimilation between them. Theyre still living in the dark ages and they have little desire to get out. See the islamic world's reaction after 9/11 with alot of them praising the attacks. It was ALLAH's will in their opinion.
remember Muslim blood was spilled that day, not just the blood of guilty white people. actually, many of those that died on that day were not white or Christian/Jewish. Many races cultures and religions may make claim to suffering losses from those despicable acts on that day.
Umm, what? Who is the guilty party? And what muslim blood? There was almost no retribution taken against the muslims after 9/11. We barely saw any domestic violence and vioclence against muslims at all.
Question......How many Church's and Synagogues are now standing in Jerusalem????? How many Muslims died for that to be possible??? Should the Muslims be allowed to knock those buildings down because they are obviously an affront and an insult to the memory of every Muslim that died at the hands of those who invaded their home?
So Israel has authority to knock down mosques and churches because they were driven out of the holy land by muslim armies? I guess, I mean they were there first.
if they want a Mosque, let them build it. let them build it in peace to show that we, those of us who are white and non-Muslim, respect those of the Muslim faith that do not preach violence and those many many Muslims who have given and are continuing to give their lives in the fight against fanatical terrorist and extremists.
To preempt the obvious arguments that will arise from my reference to Israel and Jerusalem because Christian and Jewish alike believe that their ancestors once owned it and were therefor entitled to retaking it, i would say if that is the argument then we (whites, Christians/Jewish) have no grounds for complaint about the tragedy of 9/11, the only people who would have the right to complain about any attack on the mainland of the USA, would be the American Indians.
The jews dont believe their ancestors once owned it, They KNOW their ancestors owned the land. And they wouldnt even have been there today in the first place if the holocaust never happened. And the palestinians wouldnt have Been driven out of palestine if they had left israel alone instead of declare war against them and attack them along with 5 other muslim countries. It's a miracle israel survived that attack. I think they earned cannan back after that. And they just keep prodding israel expecting a different result other than getting their teeth kicked in. Israel is fine keeping with themselves living in peace with islam, but every time they tried to make peace, the palestinians show them why it's impossible to do so. Israeli civilians pay for these peace attempts.
And I am actually insulted by your ignorance about us complaining about a mainland attack on the US. It would have just been war if it WASNT JUST A BLATANT ATTACK ON CIVILIANS. No strategic goal, no tactical goal, nothing is gained by them except pissing us off royally and killing thousands of INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
They should be thanking allah we didnt find 9/11 good enough grounds to turn the middle east into a sheet of glass.
And about the indians, This is the 21st century. I dont know what time period you are currently living in but it's nowhere near the present. They dont pay taxes. That's all we can really give them. The american indian is almost erradicated because of us, and only now we are feeling sorry for them? NO! stop that. We are a modern culture and we must get over our mistakes and move on. We must learn from the past but we cannot dwell on it. There is no way to change what already happened.
let those who would live in peace with us live their lives with the same respect dignity and honor that we ourselves demand in the lands of others that we have harmed and yet reside in.
I cant even decypher that last sentence so I will add a dancing bananna to close. :banana:
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edited for accuracy of facts........
well i was starting to respond but you obviously have no idea of historical fact or cultural back ground, nor have you taken the time to read in depth the Bible or the Koran. i would suggest that you go spend some time in a library before you enter into any conversation dealing with these topics. it is people like you, ignorant and refusing to believe in your own heritage and history that make the rest of Americans look just as pathetic as the Islamic extremist that promote violence against us.
you are so inaccurate on every point that you made that the only thing i can respond with is
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
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Go ahead. Show me your historical facts, Prove me wrong, make me revoke my previous statements.
I have no problem with eating my own words as long as they are proven to be incorrect.
Dancing bananna doesnt count as a dignified response.
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Go ahead. Show me your historical facts, Prove me wrong, make me revoke my previous statements.
I have no problem with eating my own words as long as they are proven to be incorrect.
Dancing bananna doesnt count as a dignified response.
i would consider an intellectual conversation on these historical facts, but this thread will soon be locked and i do not want an argument with anyone. if you wish to discuss this in private feel free to PM me. we can carry on in private as long as you agree to a civilized and none insult ridden debate of facts.
the dancing banana may not be dignified........but damn he is funny :)
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See the islamic world's reaction after 9/11 with alot of them praising the attacks. It was ALLAH's will in their opinion.
You understand that you were still only seeing a small but vocal part of those societies, you can't say that there were millions of Muslims dancing in the streets after 9/11, most I saw in one place was maybe a hundred, so by that logic if they show on T.V a bunch of skin heads in the streets spouting racist rants that must mean all white people are feeling that way?
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I could post some more pictures of witches.....
:bolt:
On a semi-serious note, well said Flotsam.
:salute
wrongway
(http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/holy_grail_witch.jpg)
there ya go!!
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You understand that you were still only seeing a small but vocal part of those societies, you can't say that there were millions of Muslims dancing in the streets after 9/11, most I saw in one place was maybe a hundred, so by that logic if they show on T.V a bunch of skin heads in the streets spouting racist rants that must mean all white people are feeling that way?
It's not exactly a small margin. The Muslim world didnt have the uproar against the extremists that needed to happen to show that they were against terrorism and that these people were indeed AWOL and hijacking the peaceful intentions of the true islam.
And the only reason they didnt have the major party for 9/11 is because directly after, we had that phase where we were gonna crack down on terrorism and if youre connected to terrorism we will make sure you get yours. Obviously this phase didnt last and Death to America resumed, muslim protests proclaiming the european 9/11 coming started up, and Leaders of muslim nations acknowledged 9/11 as allah's will and that america had it coming.
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So let me get this so I'm sure I have it right, you believe that a majority of Muslims here at home & abroad hate us and want to kill us & everyone else who isn't Muslim?
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your mad......lol
your mad.......you are not the only one.
but I am pissed due to an entirely different reason.
twisting and distorting of the truth..."....speaking as a Dragon"
I gotta stop here before I feel the skuzzy Hammer
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That's not what I said.
They don't want to move away from the extremists. The original teachings of islam call for violence against non muslims and no assimilation between them. Theyre still living in the dark ages and they have little desire to get out. See the islamic world's reaction after 9/11 with alot of them praising the attacks. It was ALLAH's will in their opinion.
It's directed at the leaders, IE. achmademejad or however you spell his name, and quaddaffi or however you spell his name. (google isnt working for me right now)
They praised 9/11 as an act of god and that we deserved it. They call America evil and that we are a devil regime. They hide terrorists and supply them with weapons.
The muslim people, IE iran and the elections, are tired of this radical islam bullcrap that they are forced into. They see how we live and they ask, why? Why can't we assimilate? Why can't we be like them?
They see that this Jihad against the west is bull and they won't take the quaran blindly as truth and a set of rules not to be tampered with or deviated from.
The ones that will blindly accept the teachings and laws of islam, they are the problem, and unfortunately, they are quite numerous.
My uncle is palestinian. I have no problems with the people, I have major problems with what they are taught and how they interperet and follow these teachings.
And I know This thread will get locked and I may feel the impact of the banhammer, but something that close to home and that imprinted into my mind, I just had to say something.
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the dancing banana may not be dignified........but damn he is funny :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/dichotomy/reading-monkey-gif-animation.gif)
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That's not what I said.
It's directed at the leaders, IE. achmademejad or however you spell his name, and quaddaffi or however you spell his name. (google isnt working for me right now)
They praised 9/11 as an act of god and that we deserved it. They call America evil and that we are a devil regime. They hide terrorists and supply them with weapons.
The muslim people, IE iran and the elections, are tired of this radical islam bullcrap that they are forced into. They see how we live and they ask, why? Why can't we assimilate? Why can't we be like them?
They see that this Jihad against the west is bull and they won't take the quaran blindly as truth and a set of rules not to be tampered with or deviated from.
The ones that will blindly accept the teachings and laws of islam, they are the problem, and unfortunately, they are quite numerous.
My uncle is palestinian. I have no problems with the people, I have major problems with what they are taught.
so what about the people right here in good ol USofA teaching lies as truths, and the civilians believing blindly what they say ?????
lol you really think....... .........damn I gotta stop reading this damn thread!!!!!!!!!!
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In what way are these blind truths telling us to kill innocent civilians, Abuse our women and children, promote pedophilia, denounce assimilation and that any congregation other than our own should be disposed of?
Please, If there is something I missed in the constitution about that, tell me now.
Qur'an (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses (to adultery), flog them..."
Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Qur'an (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."
In order to prove that they were raped, women must have 4 witnesses in a testimony against a man.
And the beating part is self explainatory.
The Qur'an:
Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Holy war quotes, I can keep going too.
Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide."
And this is just from the quaran, I havent even dipped into the hadith. And this isnt even scratching the surface of what's in the quaran either.
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damn I gotta stop reading this damn thread!!!!!!!!!!
Me too
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And I am actually insulted by your ignorance about us complaining about a mainland attack on the US. It would have just been war if it WASNT JUST A BLATANT ATTACK ON CIVILIANS. No strategic goal, no tactical goal, nothing is gained by them except pissing us off royally and killing thousands of INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
I thought there was something about a plane hitting the pentagon? Isn't there some military guys there?
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I thought there was something about a plane hitting the pentagon? Isn't there some military guys there?
The original discussion was about A mosque being built near the World Trade Center.
I guess you can call that an attack on the military also, But it still serves no strategic or tactical advantage to hijack CIVILIAN aircraft and fly them into buildings just to kill CIVILIANS. They didnt go after the US hierarchy, they went after everyday average workers on a random working day.
They didnt try to take out industry or our military assets, their plan was to kill as many people as possible. Blatantly kill as many CIVILIANS as possible.
See where I'm getting at?
No tactical or strategic advantage. It wasnt an attack, It was a blatent act of terror that served no purpose other than to kill people.
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They tried to go after washington, but civilians fought back. Sadly the plane went down in Pennsylvania.
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(http://mormonmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/holy_grail_witch.jpg)
there ya go!!
We found a witch, may be burn her!?
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We found a witch, may be burn her!?
ow dew yew knooo she is a witch?
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She looks loike one!
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Im not a witch I'm not a witch.. :neener:
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But you are dressed as one
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so what about the people right here in good ol USofA teaching lies as truths, and the civilians believing blindly what they say ?????
I'm not sure how creationists subverting the teaching of science is relevant. oh hang on, religious fundamentalist nutters, gotcha :aok
(In for a penny, in for a pound :D)
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Im not a witch I'm not a witch.. :neener:
we shall make her take a test. what do witches do?
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They burn!
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I'm not sure how creationists subverting the teaching of science is relevant. oh hang on, religious fundamentalist nutters, gotcha :aok
(In for a penny, in for a pound :D)
see this is why I need to stop reading this thread.....my thoughts had absolutely nothing to do with creation....but now that you mention it, how bout this......they are both right, and they are both wrong.
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The original discussion was about A mosque being built near the World Trade Center.
I guess you can call that an attack on the military also, But it still serves no strategic or tactical advantage to hijack CIVILIAN aircraft and fly them into buildings just to kill CIVILIANS. They didnt go after the US hierarchy, they went after everyday average workers on a random working day.
They didnt try to take out industry or our military assets, their plan was to kill as many people as possible. Blatantly kill as many CIVILIANS as possible.
See where I'm getting at?
No tactical or strategic advantage. It wasnt an attack, It was a blatent act of terror that served no purpose other than to kill people.
They did go after the US hierarchy, one plane went after the Pentagon, our military headquarters, and the target of the 4th plane was to be the White House.
Now don't get me wrong, the World Trade Center attack was a purely civilian attack.
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The crusades came about only because the muslim empires conquered and killed and kept proding at the the christian empires untill finally, that's enough of these shenanagins, CRUSADE! And we are not guilty of greater attrocities, as the modern radical islam is MODERN. What is this the 1500's? Attacking western countries Just because we aren't islam. Well, that's just uncalled for.
Change "muslim empires" to "western societies" and move the time table up a few hundred years. It still doesn't justify anything.
In what way are these blind truths telling us to kill innocent civilians, Abuse our women and children, promote pedophilia, denounce assimilation and that any congregation other than our own should be disposed of?
Please, If there is something I missed in the constitution about that, tell me now.
In order to prove that they were raped, women must have 4 witnesses in a testimony against a man.
And the beating part is self explainatory.
Holy war quotes, I can keep going too.
And this is just from the quaran, I havent even dipped into the hadith. And this isnt even scratching the surface of what's in the quaran either.
Now, quote the Bible. You'll find the same "women as a second class" type quotes. It still doesn't justify anything.
This has been going on forever, just the teams keep switching back and forth. Doesn't make it right, no matter who's doing it.
wrongway
Oh yeah, witches float!
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But you are dressed as one
THEY dressed me up like this
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Is 5 blocks far enough away?
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THEY dressed me up like this
NO!
NO!
NO!
NO!
NO!
......
Yes
yes
A bit
A bit
A bit
A bit
She has gottta wart
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Is 5 blocks far enough away?
i believe it is 2 blocks
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What do you do with witches?
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i believe it is 2 blocks
That was my point.
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What do you do with witches?
Burn them!
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What do you do with witches?
You don't post them on a game forum, like some have in the past.
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I'm gonna miss some of yall
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(was the no discussing politics or religion rule revoked?)
skuzzy doesn't work weekends lol :D
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Sandwich
i got your PM and i will try to respond to it tomorrow. It is a big discussion and i will try to be as accommodating as possible.
I am only re posting in this thread to clear something up for those who misunderstood a specific intent of the terrorist on their attack against the the World Trade Center. its all in the name guys. Do you have any idea what the damage to not just America but to the economics of the world were because of the destruction of the records kept in the offices of The World Trade Center? Keep in mind some (most) of the worlds biggest corporations, financial institutes and world banks had offices and kept a major part of their records there.
the physical damage done on American soil and the cost in lives was horrible, but nowhere as horrible as a complete collapse of the economic systems of America and Europe would have been. it would have been world shattering. Think of how many people suffered from financial destruction after the economic fall out of the attack, now multiply that by the billions that would have been destitute overnight had all countries involved not managed to pull together and prevent it. read the financial times and reports from that period of time, alot of the economic issues our country currently faces have their beginnings on that fateful day.
The attack on the Towers was intended to trigger an economic fall out that would destabilize and throw all modern first world countries in complete disarray. Think if you went to the bank on 9/12 and tried to take out money for even simple necessities such as food or fuel and the banks were closed?? what would you do after two three or four weeks??? how violent would we get against each other when we were looking at a complete collapse of the banking system leaving us without a means to feed our families?? we have had riots over storms threatening to last only a day or so, look at the actions of people after Katrina.... now take that world wide.
The greatest generals in the world will all tell you that the first order of war is to destabilize the enemy, to destroy their infrastructure and reduce their populace to an unruly mob dying of starvation. you can actually leave the military arm of your enemy untouched and intact if you can completely destabilize the populace. Obviously they could not go toe to toe with any part of the American war machine, so they had to use the least amount of resources to do the most damage. if our economy had tanked, we would be almost back to the dark ages for years to come.
So do not fool yourself by believing that the attacks on The World Trade Center was committed only against civilians or that it was anything less than a surgical strike directed against the world economy. This is exactly the type of attack that we as a nation would commit against any enemy state we went to war against. look at the bombing campains of both desert storms. we destroyed their infrastructure first, IE bridges dams roads communications food supplies water etc etc. we went after their military arms almost as an after thought.
the financial records were the primary target, that is why so much effort was dedicated to their destruction in the attack. when you have a tiny or ineffectual military and you need to make war against a much bigger and better prepared adversary you don't stand toe to toe with him, you kick him in the apple when he isn't looking, if he falls you have him if he doesn't you run and hide.
if it was only death they wanted then there were/are much better targets. think of a football stadium with 20,000 fans in attendance for example, or a concerted biological or explosive attack on the New York subway system during rush hour. No if it was just a high body count they wanted it would have been much higher.
Osama is a fanatic, he is an extremist of the highest measure, but never fool yourself into thinking he is anything less than a strategic and tactical genius. read his known history before you misjudge his mental skills. His intent was clear and he almost suceeded.
As for the rest of the issues being discussed I will answer you in private Sandwich. To the rest of you here good luck and ill see you after the lock :) :salute
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1. Irony, using one's First Amendment right to argue against other peoples First Amendment right!
2. IN
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Sandwich
i got your PM and i will try to respond to it tomorrow. It is a big discussion and i will try to be as accommodating as possible.
I am only re posting in this thread to clear something up for those who misunderstood a specific intent of the terrorist on their attack against the the World Trade Center. its all in the name guys. Do you have any idea what the damage to not just America but to the economics of the world were because of the destruction of the records kept in the offices of The World Trade Center? Keep in mind some (most) of the worlds biggest corporations, financial institutes and world banks had offices and kept a major part of their records there.
the physical damage done on American soil and the cost in lives was horrible, but nowhere as horrible as a complete collapse of the economic systems of America and Europe would have been. it would have been world shattering. Think of how many people suffered from financial destruction after the economic fall out of the attack, now multiply that by the billions that would have been destitute overnight had all countries involved not managed to pull together and prevent it. read the financial times and reports from that period of time, alot of the economic issues our country currently faces have their beginnings on that fateful day.
The attack on the Towers was intended to trigger an economic fall out that would destabilize and throw all modern first world countries in complete disarray. Think if you went to the bank on 9/12 and tried to take out money for even simple necessities such as food or fuel and the banks were closed?? what would you do after two three or four weeks??? how violent would we get against each other when we were looking at a complete collapse of the banking system leaving us without a means to feed our families?? we have had riots over storms threatening to last only a day or so, look at the actions of people after Katrina.... now take that world wide.
The greatest generals in the world will all tell you that the first order of war is to destabilize the enemy, to destroy their infrastructure and reduce their populace to an unruly mob dying of starvation. you can actually leave the military arm of your enemy untouched and intact if you can completely destabilize the populace. Obviously they could not go toe to toe with any part of the American war machine, so they had to use the least amount of resources to do the most damage. if our economy had tanked, we would be almost back to the dark ages for years to come.
So do not fool yourself by believing that the attacks on The World Trade Center was committed only against civilians or that it was anything less than a surgical strike directed against the world economy. This is exactly the type of attack that we as a nation would commit against any enemy state we went to war against. look at the bombing campains of both desert storms. we destroyed their infrastructure first, IE bridges dams roads communications food supplies water etc etc. we went after their military arms almost as an after thought.
the financial records were the primary target, that is why so much effort was dedicated to their destruction in the attack. when you have a tiny or ineffectual military and you need to make war against a much bigger and better prepared adversary you don't stand toe to toe with him, you kick him in the apple when he isn't looking, if he falls you have him if he doesn't you run and hide.
if it was only death they wanted then there were/are much better targets. think of a football stadium with 20,000 fans in attendance for example, or a concerted biological or explosive attack on the New York subway system during rush hour. No if it was just a high body count they wanted it would have been much higher.
Osama is a fanatic, he is an extremist of the highest measure, but never fool yourself into thinking he is anything less than a strategic and tactical genius. read his known history before you misjudge his mental skills. His intent was clear and he almost suceeded.
As for the rest of the issues being discussed I will answer you in private Sandwich. To the rest of you here good luck and ill see you after the lock :) :salute
So Instead of bombing the NY stock exchange to destroy our economy, they decided to bomb the world trade center?
What is this, fight club? Is he trying to set everybody back to zero?
Records meant almost nothing to the economy, and it just so happens we did go to the bank on 9/12 and it went off without a hitch.
Taking out the economic records in the US would take a hell of alot more than taking out 2 towers in manhattan.
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Change "muslim empires" to "western societies" and move the time table up a few hundred years. It still doesn't justify anything.
I'm not saying it's justified, It's all justified. That's just the way society was back then. Both sides did their fair share of conquering and killing back then.
And the point I was making is, This is the 21st century. It's totally unjustified to kill westerners because we're non muslim. That's the only reason they pull now so I have to roll with it.
Now quote the Bible. You'll find the same "women as a second class" type quotes. It still doesn't justify anything.
This has been going on forever, just the teams keep switching back and forth. Doesn't make it right, no matter who's doing it.
The problem again is that they still take these as literal WORDS OF ALLAH. Do you know any christians who follow the old testament and perceive it's every word as truth and the word of god?
Exactly.
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Here is another one of my insights.
If war between religion is declared, how is it different to that of a war between nations, especially in this case as religion IS the nation?
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twisting and distorting of the truth..."....speaking as a Dragon"
Wassup with that. :furious
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Ever hear of back up records? companies send their records offsite for the same reason. Also they have back up servers somewhere else.
Semp
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Ever hear of back up records? companies send their records offsite for the same reason. Also they have back up servers somewhere else.
Semp
look im not gonna waste my breath arguing with people who refuse to actually do some kind of research into the subject. go read the finacial market reports from that period of time if you wonder how it could have been possible to destroy our economy. the stock market itself is not the focal point of our economy, they just sell shares in the companies many of which had offices in the towers.
the market itself being destroyed would cause a panic, but the towers held many many valuable bits of information from many companies world wide. the potential damage was far greater. read the reports and especially the banking and financial reports from that time, other than that think what you want.
it is i guess always better to assume that your enemy is stupid and doesnt have a clue how to hurt you. makes sleeping at night so much easier.
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Flotsome. I worked in a company that was pretty big. We stored back up tapes every day off site. We also had an emergency plan of what to do in case of disaster, be tornado, fire, whatever. We estimatd we could be back up and running in 2 days at 70% capacity. I am pretty sure all the companies in the trade center did the same. only things we could not replace was personel. All companies that I worked for had some kind of plan like this. We could not replace everything 100% but we sure as heck were not gonna go under. And I am sure those companies there had a plan too. Our company had 15,000 employees with about 800 working at the home office.
Semp
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Flotsome. I worked in a company that was pretty big. We stored back up tapes every day off site. We also had an emergency plan of what to do in case of disaster, be tornado, fire, whatever. We estimatd we could be back up and running in 2 days at 70% capacity. I am pretty sure all the companies in the trade center did the same. only things we could not replace was personel. All companies that I worked for had some kind of plan like this. We could not replace everything 100% but we sure as heck were not gonna go under. And I am sure those companies there had a plan too. Our company had 15,000 employees with about 800 working at the home office.
Semp
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Flotsome. I worked in a company that was pretty big. We stored back up tapes every day off site. We also had an emergency plan of what to do in case of disaster, be tornado, fire, whatever. We estimatd we could be back up and running in 2 days at 70% capacity. I am pretty sure all the companies in the trade center did the same. only things we could not replace was personel. All companies that I worked for had some kind of plan like this. We could not replace everything 100% but we sure as heck were not gonna go under. And I am sure those companies there had a plan too. Our company had 15,000 employees with about 800 working at the home office.
Semp
I used to work in a conservation office (USDA) and we store back ups in the same building. We change tapes every weeks, and keep the data for a month.
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Personally its a slap in the face, i see it as they did not take in consideration the peoples feelings and the importance of Ground Zero when deciding to build there, Which shows me they have no respect for what occured there and the strong feelings that people will always hold to that event, It's tasteless and i think even if built it will be a center of turmoil and violence from people for years to come, to many emotions are tied into that hollowed ground
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Personally its a slap in the face, i see it as they did not take in consideration the peoples feelings and the importance of Ground Zero when deciding to build there, Which shows me they have no respect for what occured there and the strong feelings that people will always hold to that event, It's tasteless and i think even if built it will be a center of turmoil and violence from people for years to come, to many emotions are tied into that hollowed ground
I'm going to hijack this for a second....ZooM, seriously bro get rid of the avatar in your sig. I'm sure your response is pretty well thought out and informational but I can't concentrate on reading it because of the fine woman speaking to me in the sig. :rock :rock :rock
**Now back to your previously scheduled bbs discussion.**
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So is 5 blocks far enough away or what?
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So is 5 blocks far enough away or what?
Building a mosque in downtown manhattan when the vast majority of the muslim populace in NYC live in the outer boroughs.
No, it is not far enough.
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How the hell is this still open?
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Because Skuz is obviously away. I haven't seen him in almost a week.
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I'm really not sure.
I'm quite astonished that it is actually.
(http://forum.i3d.net/attachments/offtopic-english/943163568d1238360596-inb4lock-post-inb4lock-associated-gifs-here-ibtl27bf23xd0.jpg)
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Building a mosque in downtown manhattan when the vast majority of the muslim populace in NYC live in the outer boroughs.
No, it is not far enough.
Downtown manhattan is a pretty big place isn't it?
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The original discussion was about A mosque being built near the World Trade Center.
I guess you can call that an attack on the military also, But it still serves no strategic or tactical advantage to hijack CIVILIAN aircraft and fly them into buildings just to kill CIVILIANS. They didnt go after the US hierarchy, they went after everyday average workers on a random working day.
They didnt try to take out industry or our military assets, their plan was to kill as many people as possible. Blatantly kill as many CIVILIANS as possible.
See where I'm getting at?
No tactical or strategic advantage. It wasnt an attack, It was a blatent act of terror that served no purpose other than to kill people.
You're wrong again in this thread. The hell the WTC wasn't a "strategic target" for the hijackers!! The intent was simple, try and disrupt the World Economy. They damn near succeeded. However, they did not target only "Americans". Citizens of over 90 countries lost their lives in the attacks. It seems the "other countries" get lost in shuffle in 99% of the conversations relating to 9/11.
I almost lost a cousin in the Pentagon attack. Her original office was consumed by the nose of the plane, not a missile. A USMC guard, risked a Courts Martial, to retrieve her purse from her meeting room (In another wing until that wing's construction was complete) so she could get her cell phone.
You are obviously too young to be replying to a lot of these threads.
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Just for the record. The targets INITIALLY picked, were Nuclear Reactors throughout the US, as verified from Al Qeada prisoner interrogations. But they changed them to cause more damage to the World Economy and also, they admitted they would have been in over their heads going for the reactors.
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Just for the record. The targets INITIALLY picked, were Nuclear Reactors throughout the US, as verified from Al Qeada prisoner interrogations. But they changed them to cause more damage to the World Economy and also, they admitted they would have been in over their heads going for the reactors.
Your right. Their hope was to hurt us and the world on the economical side, and it is working. Not as well as thought but it is working. I think their mistake was the wrong targets. WTT is a good target but they should of hit wall street too.
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Another stick in the eye, St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church. An historic church that was destroyed at ground zero and yet still obstructed to rebuild. Down town NYC is a commercial district with a very small Islamic population any where near it. You would have to pass through different boroughs of NYC and pass at least a dozen other mega Mosques to get there. History is a great teacher.
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Just for the record. The targets INITIALLY picked, were Nuclear Reactors throughout the US, as verified from Al Qeada prisoner interrogations. But they changed them to cause more damage to the World Economy and also, they admitted they would have been in over their heads going for the reactors.
put my head under water and i'll tell you who really killed JFK.
may I remind you that the people that want to build the mosque are also us citizens. and lots of them were ashamed that their religion was used as a cover by idiots.
semp
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put my head under water and i'll tell you who really killed JFK.
may I remind you that the people that want to build the mosque are also us citizens. and lots of them were ashamed that their religion was used as a cover by idiots.
semp
Correct me on this, but isn't this particular group supports Hamas?
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Another stick in the eye, St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church. An historic church that was destroyed at ground zero and yet still obstructed to rebuild. Down town NYC is a commercial district with a very small Islamic population any where near it. You would have to pass through different boroughs of NYC and pass at least a dozen other mega Mosques to get there. History is a great teacher.
Well if the mosque won't be used then it sure does seem like a waste of money for the capitalists that purchased the property.
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Downtown manhattan is a pretty big place isn't it?
Not really.
New york city is a pretty big place, manhattan island, not so much.
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Not really.
New york city is a pretty big place, manhattan island, not so much.
Borough of County: | of estimate for 1 July 2009 | sq miles
Manhattan 1,629,054 23
Seems pretty big to me.
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Borough of County: | of estimate for 1 July 2009 | sq miles
Manhattan 1,629,054 23
Seems pretty big to me.
What is your definition of big?
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What is your definition of big?
The County of New York is the most densely populated county in the United States, and one of the most densely populated areas in the world, with a 2008 population of 1,634,795[2] living in a land area of 22.96 square miles (59.47 kmē), or 71,201 residents per square mile (27,485/kmē).
That's what I consider big.
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The County of New York is the most densely populated county in the United States, and one of the most densely populated areas in the world, with a 2008 population of 1,634,795[2] living in a land area of 22.96 square miles (59.47 kmē), or 71,201 residents per square mile (27,485/kmē).
That's what I consider big.
OK, you are looking at the population, not land mass.
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OK, you are looking at the population, not land mass.
That's the only important stat. I have a point in all of this but I need to tread lightly..
My point(s) is, the jaw dropping headline of "Mosque two blocks away" is a cheap political point and is working purely on shock value. So I ask, is five blocks far enough away? Ten blocks? The fact is, it is private property that was purchased for use in NYC, the greatest melting pot in the world. The knee jerk reaction when we hear 'Mosque' and 'Muslim' is based purely on our ignorance of their faith and culture. The vast vast (two vasts for emphasis) majority are peaceful, hard working Americans. Real Muslims have to live with the burden that terrorists share and distort their faith. Acceptance and tolerance breed peace and unity. Hate, isolation, and intolerance breed anti Americanism, which is our greatest enemy in the war against terrorism.
my 2c, no more. :angel: :salute
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All I've got to say is that I'm a big fan of the First Amendment which insures the following:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
If you guys don't like it... don't want a President who is going to support that... well, I hear China is nice this time of year.
Enjoy.
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put my head under water and i'll tell you who really killed JFK.
may I remind you that the people that want to build the mosque are also us citizens. and lots of them were ashamed that their religion was used as a cover by idiots.
semp
Semp, I haven't posted an "opinion" on whether or not the Mosque should be built. So I guess I'm wondering, where in the hell do you come up your response? All I did was properly inform Nemesis of his faulty logic. Every religion has "fanatics", which is what Al Qaeda does.
Truth be told, they should be allowed to build it at the current location, three blocks from the WTC site. It is a Constitutional Right granted in the First Amendment.
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wonder what jesse ventura will say on this subject.
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Hehe, I can't get sucked into this.
:bolt:
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You're wrong again in this thread. The hell the WTC wasn't a "strategic target" for the hijackers!! The intent was simple, try and disrupt the World Economy. They damn near succeeded. However, they did not target only "Americans". Citizens of over 90 countries lost their lives in the attacks. It seems the "other countries" get lost in shuffle in 99% of the conversations relating to 9/11.
I almost lost a cousin in the Pentagon attack. Her original office was consumed by the nose of the plane, not a missile. A USMC guard, risked a Courts Martial, to retrieve her purse from her meeting room (In another wing until that wing's construction was complete) so she could get her cell phone.
You are obviously too young to be replying to a lot of these threads.
I didnt leave out the other countries. Notice how I used civilians instead of americans. I used it in big capital letters too. I'm sorry I didnt have time to list the 90 other countries in my post.
And thinking about it and looking at it, yes, it was a brilliant strategic plan. The only problem is, It did NOTHING. The only thing it ACCOMPLISHED was killing alot of civilians. It's not about what it was planned to be, it's about what it actually accomplished. And it accomplished absolutely nothing.
Imagine if flight 91 made it to washington and they ended up killing the president. I wonder what the war on terror would have been like with that angry SOB cheney at the helm.
Anyway...
My parents were both in the NYPD and were emergency responders to Ground Zero. They were then rescue workers after the towers collapsed sifting through the rubble for survivors.
They didnt end up going back to their normal jobs untill early 2003. They worked as cleanup and rescue workers for the entirety of the WTC cleanup.
Some close family friends were lost when the towers collapsed. My mother's partner was killed along with one of my mother's old friends who was working as a firefighter at the time.
Needless to say, the WTC attacks left a lasting impression in our family. When we see that a mosque is being built so close to what we view as sacred ground, especially when there's almost no muslim populace living on manhattan island. It's an insult to NYC, to the victims of the WTC attacks, to the United states, and most of all, to the surviving families of those killed that day.
I take it as insulting, that's my opinion. If I were to build a mosque in NYC, I would build it where the muslims live. How about brooklyn? You know, where the majority of that populace is.
In case you've never been to new york city and have never seen the commute to manhattan at 3:00, let me assure you, it really really sucks.
And please, youre from Michigan. You werent there, I was. You dont live in New York, I do. The opinion of the peanut gallery is not wanted.
Youre obviously not mature enough to be replying to this thread.
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The USCON is a document that guarantees certain freedoms. While those freedoms exists uniformly for all citizens of the USA, it is best to not bite the hands that feed. With all the other options available to the builders of that place of worship, one has to ponder wtf they are thinking.
It is not a question of their "right", that in particular is should not even be a question. It is a issue far deeper than that.
The fact that the POTUS is even commenting on it shows just how sad things are in the USA. The focus should be far far away on items of far far more importance.
Personally... I do not care. But, would those same people building that mosque allow Christians or Jews to build a place of worship across from the grave of Ahmed Ishmail Muhammad Turdis?
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That's the only important stat. I have a point in all of this but I need to tread lightly..
My point(s) is, the jaw dropping headline of "Mosque two blocks away" is a cheap political point and is working purely on shock value. So I ask, is five blocks far enough away? Ten blocks? The fact is, it is private property that was purchased for use in NYC, the greatest melting pot in the world. The knee jerk reaction when we hear 'Mosque' and 'Muslim' is based purely on our ignorance of their faith and culture. The vast vast (two vasts for emphasis) majority are peaceful, hard working Americans. Real Muslims have to live with the burden that terrorists share and distort their faith. Acceptance and tolerance breed peace and unity. Hate, isolation, and intolerance breed anti Americanism, which is our greatest enemy in the war against terrorism.
my 2c, no more. :angel: :salute
A mosque that serves no purpose being built that close to sacred ground.
Hell, we get fatwa's all over the place if we draw the prophet mohammed, why cant we have a problem with them building a mosque that close to ground zero?
All I'm saying is, you can build it in brooklyn and not be flamed for it. It's an easier commute, there's alot of muslims there to begin with.
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I didnt leave out the other countries. Notice how I used civilians instead of americans. I used it in big capital letters too. I'm sorry I didnt have time to list the 90 other countries in my post.
And thinking about it and looking at it, yes, it was a brilliant strategic plan. The only problem is, It did NOTHING. The only thing it ACCOMPLISHED was killing alot of civilians. It's not about what it was planned to be, it's about what it actually accomplished. And it accomplished absolutely nothing.
Imagine if flight 91 made it to washington and they ended up killing the president. I wonder what the war on terror would have been like with that angry SOB cheney at the helm.
Anyway...
My parents were both in the NYPD and were emergency responders to Ground Zero. They were then rescue workers after the towers collapsed sifting through the rubble for survivors.
They didnt end up going back to their normal jobs untill early 2003. They worked as cleanup and rescue workers for the entirety of the WTC cleanup.
Some close family friends were lost when the towers collapsed. My mother's partner was killed along with one of my mother's old friends who was working as a firefighter at the time.
Needless to say, the WTC attacks left a lasting impression in our family. When we see that a mosque is being built so close to what we view as sacred ground, especially when there's almost no muslim populace living on manhattan island. It's an insult to NYC, to the victims of the WTC attacks, to the United states, and most of all, to the surviving families of those killed that day.
I take it as insulting, that's my opinion. If I were to build a mosque in NYC, I would build it where the muslims live. How about brooklyn? You know, where the majority of that populace is.
In case you've never been to new york city and have never seen the commute to manhattan at 3:00, let me assure you, it really really sucks.
And please, youre from Michigan. You werent there, I was. You dont live in New York, I do. The opinion of the peanut gallery is not wanted.
Youre obviously not mature enough to be replying to this thread.
He would go after them with his shot gun.
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Islam means submission, it has been historically spread with the threat of the sword. The first crusade was the Islamic conquest of Christian lands. Jihad is not merely an individuals struggle. And Islam following it to its logical conclusion will result in a theocratic State. As far as the Constitution goes, it restricts the Federal government, not State or Local laws which can and do restrict building placement of any kind. They imposed such restriction on St. Nicholas Orthodox church. Historically there were state sponsored Religion in this Country after our Constitution was ratified. I have no regard for this mosque.
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Take a long look at Feisal Abdul Rauf, the Imam who is behind the mosque project.
He refused to call Hamas a terrorist group, believes that the US brought 9-11 onto itself. Fine example of a moderate Muslim I guess.
Now imagine a white separatist church with a pastor who claimed Dr Martin Luther King jr brought on his own death.
If that group chose to build a church near Dr Kings assasination site, do you think the following words:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
would prevent the Government from successfully shutting them down?
Yes they have the right and if they do choose to be so insensitive to do it despite the opposition, I just hope it fades from the headlines and everyone ignores it.
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As far as the Constitution goes, it restricts the Federal government, not State or Local laws
Go Arizona!
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Semp, I haven't posted an "opinion" on whether or not the Mosque should be built. So I guess I'm wondering, where in the hell do you come up your response? All I did was properly inform Nemesis of his faulty logic. Every religion has "fanatics", which is what Al Qaeda does.
Truth be told, they should be allowed to build it at the current location, three blocks from the WTC site. It is a Constitutional Right granted in the First Amendment.
no, just pointing out a fact that people under duress will way just about anything. wasn't criticizing you. just a little story from personal experience you guys can relate.
something got broken at my house when i was younger, back in the mid 70's (when you were allowed to spank your kids), anyway, my mom told me she was gonna beat the crap out of me till I told her the truth. Now i had nothing to do with it, I didnt even know, but my response was, I am sorry it was an accident and it wont happen again. she spanked me a couple of times and that was the end of it. a few weeks later it came out that it was my brother who did it. she in turned asked me why i confessed, my reply was because you will beat me less. hence I made the comment put my head under water (water boarding) and i'll tell you who really killed JFK.
but the sad thing about the everything is that "we" want to punish our fellow citizens for the wrongs of others. sometimes we make decisions based on what we hear on the radio/tv/newspaper from people who get paid millions of dollars to say just about anything.
as for the original posting, I'll be more than happy to pay for your ticket to move to another country that has more liberties that ours.
semp
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Granted American is and always has been a melting pot for folks from all over with different customs and beliefs. That's one thing that makes us so unique. But the world has changed and some, I feel are using our Constitution and Bill of Rights against us to weaken America from the inside out.
Take for example Shiria law. If we keep allowing these mosques to be build are we also to allow them to practice their own rules set forth by their religion? This is a very slippery slope and the Muslim laws and customs are like night and day compared to other faiths. Be careful what you wish for. Because if you don't you may wake up one day having to go to your daughters stoning because she married a Mulsim and committed a sin they consider punishable by death.
Some of you may think my example is extreme but I assure you it is not. These folks are no joke and their main objective is to convert us to Islam. Mecca is over there. Why would they even want to step foot in a land they consider to be the "evil satan"?
They have already proven they will not lift a finger to stop their own extremeists from committing unspeakable acts of behandings and the such. Did anyone see the Time magizine cover with the woman with her nose cut off?! This is accepted practice over there. You mean to tell me you are OK with them doing that on American soil?
It's one thing to be tolerent of other religions and quite another to allow something like that to bloom in our back yards.
True America is the land of the free but there comes a time when she needs to wake up and smell the coffee. This "war" didn't start with 9/11, it started a couple thousand years ago and now they're getting a foothold in my land because our laws say they can. We're screwed if we don't stop this infestion.
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A mosque that serves no purpose being built that close to sacred ground.
Hell, we get fatwa's all over the place if we draw the prophet mohammed, why cant we have a problem with them building a mosque that close to ground zero?
All I'm saying is, you can build it in brooklyn and not be flamed for it. It's an easier commute, there's alot of muslims there to begin with.
First Amendment kid. Read the First Amendment, you cannot have it both ways. Your parents have NOTHING to do with this Mosque being built son, nothing.
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First Amendment kid. Read the First Amendment, you cannot have it both ways. Your parents have NOTHING to do with this Mosque being built son, nothing.
I didnt say they were construction workers, did I?
Of course they don't anything to do with this mosque being built, theyre retired Police Officers.
And I know you can't have it both ways. You don't seem to get the defenition of OPINION. In my OPINION, the mosque should not be built because obviously it's construction is just an insult directed at NYC and the US etc. etc.
My opinion. Read the first ammendment kid, I'm entitled to one.
How the mosque is gonna work out.
First month after building, high attendence and major traffic from people making the commute from the outer boroughs.
A month after that. The new york city mosque is a barren place, as almost all of the islamic population living in NYC is moderate and they are hard working average people. They dont have the time, or the energy to commute to Manhattan to go to a mosque and pray. They can do it just as easlily with the smaller mosques scattered around (not surpirsingly) in places with a high muslim populace.
Fundamental islam has no foothold in NYC. NYC - 1, Fundamental islamist idiots - 0
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Hell, we get fatwa's all over the place if we draw the prophet mohammed, why cant we have a problem with them building a mosque that close to ground zero?
This is exactly the type of destructive eye for eye, tit for tat, "we" vs "them", level of thinking that starts wars.
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This is exactly the type of destructive eye for eye, tit for tat, "we" vs "them", level of thinking that starts wars.
Absolutely correct. He's too young to realize the hypocrisy.
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You guys bash on Muslims all you want, but in the bible it says to let god the judge. Does anyone here realise that the property that the mosque is being built on IS OWNED BY THE CITY OF NEW YORK? Obama can back it if he wants, but he doesnt have any say in the matter one way or another. It's not muslims that are going to bring this country down, its people that will stick their heads in sand and ignore all the facts.
FLAME ON!
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Like Grizz said, the vast majority of Muslims in this country are simply hard working Americans like you & me, it's not like if this Masque gets built your going to start seeing terrorist getting bussed in to Manhattan to attend it, and remember American Muslims were also attacked just the same as every other group of Americans on 9/11, in fact if you really think about it they were effected a lot more then your average American was from the aftermath of 9/11 because from that day on a lot of Americans now saw all Muslims as terrorists, even though the majority of them were just as American as anyone else.
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This is exactly the type of destructive eye for eye, tit for tat, "we" vs "them", level of thinking that starts wars.
My point was...
That's insulting to them, We have a right to declare this insulting to us.
And we're not the one that would start the war, theyre basically asking for somebody to destroy them.
Theyre pissing of the africans and the israeli's royally.
The christian africans are getting a little bit tired of being butchered by the muslim africans in Nigeria, and Sudan.
And the israeli's, who seem to be the only ones paying attention to how their muslim neighbors are kidnapping and killing Civilians and Soldiers, well, you can tell how that situation is going to sort itself out.
We're not starting a war, theyre bringing it upon themselves.
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Absolutely correct. He's too young to realize the hypocrisy.
I dont see where the hypocrisy is.
I've followed the same opinion throughout.
I like the american modern muslim, despise the extremist middle east leadership, and I'm a concerned new yorker who takes the building of an unnecessary mosque that close to ground zero, an insult.
You however have shown yourself to be a total hypocrite who is uneducated about the points I've been bringing up this entire time.
You show this by continuing to post the argument that I am too young to understand this. As it turns out, age means nothing and I have actually taken the time to research this, learn about islam, and bring up points based upon my research and my opinion.
So, congratulations Masherbrum, you have shown yourself to be an old, ignorant, pedestrian, only here to spew uneducated textual diarrhea on the forums.
Now please, shoo off. The people that know a shred of information on this, are currently having a discussion.
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I am going to trust that for whatever reason this thread is being allowed to continue, maybe to let us get it out of our system.
I hope that if it is eventually locked, no one receives a ban for their participation.
Yeah, Yeah, Islam is peace, only the fringe radicals are violent, etc, etc.
The fact is that in Islam, there is no such thing as separation of church and state.
Tenants of Islamic law are not only incompatible with western values but illegal in this nation.
"Taliban kills adulterous Afghan couple."
Not a surprise, but read the reaction from our ally, not considered to be a radical.
A spokesman for Afghan President Hamid Karzai, Waheed Omar, said if the incident was confirmed it would be condemned in the strongest terms by the government.
"Even in Islam this [stoning] has to be done through proper judicial systems," he said.
The very fact that there could even be a "proper judicial system" that would allow this, tells me something.
Can some of you enlightened Koran scholars educate me?
What does the average moderate Muslim believe? Do they reject and condemn sharia law? Seriously, what are the clear differences in radical and moderate Islam?
After listening to the double talk of many religious scholars, I end up more confused than before I ever heard them.
Just how much "religious" freedom are we supposed to allow?
These are some questions that must be answered before many of us are going to stop being mistrustful and embrace Islam as a great and peaceful religion, fully compatible with our own belief of religious tolerance.
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I dont see where the hypocrisy is.
I've followed the same opinion throughout.
I like the american modern muslim, despise the extremist middle east leadership, and I'm a concerned new yorker who takes the building of an unneccesary mosque that close to ground zero, an insult.
You however have shown yourself to be a total hypocrite who is uneducated about the points I've been bringing up this entire time.
You show this by continuing to post the argument that I am too young to understand this. As it turns out, age means nothing and I have actually taken the time to research this, learn about islam, and bring up points based upon my research and my opinion.
So, congradulations Masherbrum, you have shown yourself to be an old, ignorant, pedestrian, only here to spew uneducated textual diarrhea on the forums.
Now please, shoo off. The people that know a shred of information on this, are currently having a discussion.
Who's ignorant and uneducated? (Check out the quote.) You backpedaled after being properly informed that 9/11 most certainly was an "attack". You said "they accomplished nothing". Really? Why are we still in Afghanistan? You might want to inform the current Veterans of "why they're In Country".
You've only made it a point to be "offended" by wishing the First Amendment be tossed aside. You know about as much as anyone else outside of the talks actually going on. Age means a lot. Again, you're too young to hate, you don't even know or understand a lot of things at your age. But, like most teenagers, you "think you know it all". You've done nothing but spam this forum with repeated fallacies and disambiguation from Day One. Your squeaker "opinion" is one of non-importance, as the United States Constitution is a helluva lot more important.
Edit: Please point out where I am a "Hypocrite" in this thread for all to see. The only thing we see are Stereotypical, Abolitionists wanting the US Constitution to be used as toilet paper and abused. You act as if the building materials will have hidden explosives in the walls, roof and floors "To be detonated at some point in the future". You also allow your stereotypes to surface by the actions of "Religious Fanatics" and unjustly punish the majority.
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I am going to trust that for whatever reason this thread is being allowed to continue, maybe to let us get it out of our system.
I hope that if it is eventually locked, no one receives a ban for their participation.
Yeah, Yeah, Islam is peace, only the fringe radicals are violent, etc, etc.
The fact is that in Islam, there is no such thing as separation of church and state.
Tenants of Islamic law are not only incompatible with western values but illegal in this nation.
"Taliban kills adulterous Afghan couple."
Not a surprise, but read the reaction from our ally, not considered to be a radical.
A spokesman for Afghan President Hamid Karzai, Waheed Omar, said if the incident was confirmed it would be condemned in the strongest terms by the government.
"Even in Islam this [stoning] has to be done through proper judicial systems," he said.
The very fact that there could even be a "proper judicial system" that would allow this, tells me something.
Can some of you enlightened Koran scholars educate me?
What does the average moderate Muslim believe? Do they reject and condemn sharia law? Seriously, what are the clear differences in radical and moderate Islam?
After listening to the double talk of many religious scholars, I end up more confused than before I ever heard them.
Just how much "religious" freedom are we supposed to allow?
These are some questions that must be answered before many of us are going to stop being mistrustful and embrace Islam as a great and peaceful religion, fully compatible with our own belief of religious tolerance.
Awesome. This isn't the Middle East, it's Manhattan we're talking about and United States Citizens, not folks with a green card. My religious practices (Catholic) are no more important than anyone else's. How come others wish to deem their "Religion superior" to others?
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The only good thing about all the different fake Bull watermelon religions is that all the stupid fake Bull watermelon people that follow these fake Bull watermelon religions end up killing each other and making way for people that just simply believe in the goodness of mankind. Thank you for culling stupidity out of the world and making way for free thinking people.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w229/tes111/Erkel.jpg)
Did I do that :bolt:
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I'm curious sandwich, you have said a few times now that this mosque "serves no purpose". Are you claiming that American citizens expressing their first amendment rights will not be worshipping at it? :headscratch:
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As much as I want to express myself here on this board on this issue, I will not.
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OK so after a couple of days of reading and writing in this thread i have reached a conclusion........
Its just a troll fest!!!!!
Oak you started with what was to be a legitimate heartfelt and in your opinion rational gripe and possible conversation starter, but it has subsequently been highjacked by those who just want to argue not discuss and/or debate with the intent of really listening to the opposing parties views.
I now apologize to everyone who has been sucked into this conversation, especially if something i said herein inspired you to compliment, correct, agree or disagree within this thread. I was hoping for a legitimate conversation before the inevitable lock, it was not meant to be.
i cannot give you back your wasted time, but i can give you a
DOH!!!!!!! hand slap on forhead while shaking head "I should have known better!!!!"
once again, I apologise for my part.