Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 4deck on August 23, 2010, 08:18:51 AM
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Intresting read.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100822/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_unmanned_bomber
They call it "ambassador of death" catchy phrase I guess.
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They should call it the "ambassador of crap on a stick". :neener:
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Shall I quote Dr. Grant from JP 3. "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best of intentions." :banana:
I shall, I shall. :lol
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Any one else get a V1 buzz bomb vibe off this thing?
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Any one else get a V1 buzz bomb vibe off this thing?
Yep, finally catching up to Nazi Germany technology.
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ranks right up there with their 600 mph fire and forget torpedo from a couple years ago.
they got it out of a cereal box and its got a really big rubberband inside it :)
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ranks right up there with their 600 mph fire and forget torpedo from a couple years ago.
they got it out of a cereal box and its got a really big rubberband inside it :)
lol
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That is a big rubber band!!! Where is their squadron of Fokker DR1 triplanes right about now? :noid
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Their planes are pilotless even when their guys are in them.
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Their detatchment of Curtiss Fliers is lying in the western desert somewhere. Too expensive to operate, these new fangled aeroplanes are rather useless so their told.
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Iran? Bah.
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Reminds me of those early cold war US surface-to-surface missiles (matador etc).
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They should call it the "ambassador of crap on a stick". :neener:
This sure looks like AMRAAM or Patriot food to me...560 kts? Every air to air missile in the arsenal will catch that thing. I wish the Iranians all the luck in the world....The University of Oklahoma needs overflow parking for it's football games and if they fire ONE of those POS in anger, OU will be able to use what used to be Iran.
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They should call it the "piece of crap on a stick". :neener:
FIXED
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Looks like an unmanned version of the Baka Bomb, at least you can tell its influence in the "Ambassador of Death".
ack-ack
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I'm with the others on this one, looks like a frakin V-1 made outa plastic.
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'The Americans tell lies. Each day our forces grow stro... wh what are they'
'Nothing carry on'
'Are they subtitles?'
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This sure looks like AMRAAM or Patriot food to me...
Spitfires baby :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKZpUvz4MZo&p=16959A2D967C6229&playnext=1&index=53
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I can see it now, we get one flying over seas, and we scramble an old P-51 to take it down, lol
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'The Americans tell lies. Each day our forces grow stro... wh what are they'
'Nothing carry on'
'Are they subtitles?'
:rofl :aok
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"Our new 'Ambassador Of Death' is unmanned because, quite frankly, it sucks so badly we couldn't find anyone willing to martyr themselved in it."
:rofl
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Spitfires baby :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKZpUvz4MZo&p=16959A2D967C6229&playnext=1&index=53
COOL! I didn't know that Spits could catch them! Nice....IN
Changeup
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Any one else get a V1 buzz bomb vibe off this thing?
was the first thing i thought of.
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I can see it now, we get one flying over seas, and we scramble an old P-51 to take it down, lol
Did you mean a Temps? P- 51 did not have the ability to catch them during the war.
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I saw the news blurb on this, it made me laugh real hard. Iran is still in the dark ages culturally. They think they thru out the Sha, all the did was trade for another corrupt regime.
I'd bet a paycheck that the first time it flies out of Iranian air space, a predator drone will do its magic and make it disappear. Persia used to be the cultural center of the world. They were arrogant then and were sent to the dark ages for it, they never came back from it. Arrogance is a great leveler.
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Did you mean a Temps? P- 51 did not have the ability to catch them during the war.
As part of Operation Crossbow, some P-51Ds were tuned to increase their speed to intercept V-1s and were responsible for shooting down 232 V-1s. This was due to the limited number of Tempests that were initially available to intercept the V-1s.
ack-ack
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As part of Operation Crossbow, some P-51Ds were tuned to increase their speed to intercept V-1s and were responsible for shooting down 232 V-1s. This was due to the limited number of Tempests that were initially available to intercept the V-1s.
ack-ack
Really, that is interesting, I did not know that. Thanks for the info.
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Really, that is interesting, I did not know that. Thanks for the info.
There's an old movie called "Operation Crossbow" that's about the Allied operation to combat Germany's long range terror weapons. Not a bad movie to waste the day watching.
ack-ack
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Dirka dirka OH CRAP ITS TURNING AROUND!!!!
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Now if they can shoot our stuff down with low tech gear. What makes them think this system will be effective against a force with high tech gear?
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Who said anything about them using it on The West? This military display is more likely to be targeting weaker and more peacefull muslim factions in the area. Join us against The West or we can take your land anyhow. Join us against The West because with us, you stand more chance. Leaving Iran to develope over the last ten years has been pure lunacy on our part. Just because we can turn them to glass in minutes does not mean they could not significantly damage our infrastructure and population in the conflict.
Iran's growing power today is a direct result of our war in the Middle East, in my opinion. We have been screwing with the little fish while the pike has been feeding in peace. What did we expect? That the destructive example we set in Afganistan and Iraq would keep Iran behaving nicely? Show them what might happen if they get too big? No....all we have done is shown them what they will have to fight against if they expect to keep thier culture clean of the infidel's poisen. We have shown them what to expect and we have wasted a decade fighting while they prepare better to go out fighting.
Sure, this weapon might not be that great. But what it stands for is far more important. Iran clearly has enough time, money and freedom to even make this global display.
Our human race is heading for a major leap in evolution. Not long from now we will be colonising and farming other solar systems one way or another. There is only one way this goal is possible. That is by being united as one global nation. But this transition is not yet certain. Untill acceptance of different cultures is granted by all cultures to all cultures we will fail to coexist at the required level to meet these galactic ambitions.
Most of the world is getting in line with this. Even the Far East and West have started to learn to get along, albeit at a snail's pace currently. Those elite sects of violent religeous conflict that try to persist will be eliminated by the global nation that we are becoming. There is no question about this. The question is how much damage will the 'terrorists' inflict before we are free of human warfare on Earth? Are Iran even that outdated in culture today? Will Iran evolve to become part of the Human Empire or do they fear us too much? If they fear that we will do to them what we have done to their nieghbours, conflict is almost certain.
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You are already involved in two illegal wars with civillian deaths numbering in the millions based on manufactured nonexistent evidence and now your talking about attacking a country that has not done anything illegal or attacked anyone in the last 70years
You allready assasinated one of their democratic elected prime ministers and constantly talk about bombing them.
Wow the brainwashing must be astonishing to make you think you have any moral highground or justification for an attack in this.
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I did nothing of the sort, I have never assasinated one of their democratic elected prime ministers and rarely talked about bombing them.
If you did not understand my Analysis of the human race currently, I'm sorry. If you think my point was to kill them all, I don't even know what to say to you. I'm talking about what the human race will most likely do in the next 500 years. I will not be able to do much more about it than add to the methane output of the earth's surface..
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Wasn't directed at you bat.
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oooh, sorry Sir!
:o
:lol
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No Problem,
For your Analysis check out these two movies, I think you will find them very interessting. :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O67AZfUMXw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O67AZfUMXw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxPPnCW6sMo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxPPnCW6sMo)
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thank you, i have saved them to favorites and will have to study in sections. I've seen some of this already.
A person I find inspirational to listen to is Michio Kaku, he has some brain that guy. Do you know of him?
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This unmanned bomber isn't going to be aimed at the West, or even Israel. It will be used against its neighbors to soften up or weaken targets before they send boots.
two 250-pound (113.4-kilogram) bombs or a 450-pound (204.12-kilogram) guided bomb.
That will make the damage potential of this thing less than the the cost to build it. It is highly unlikely it will carry conventional weapons because of this reason.
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You are already involved in two illegal wars with civillian deaths numbering in the millions based on manufactured nonexistent evidence and now your talking about attacking a country that has not done anything illegal or attacked anyone in the last 70years
You aren't very clear on the terms of the cease fire that "ended" the first Gulf War are you?
And BTW, Adolf Hitler was "democratically elected" as well.
But I understand some of yas are OK with mass graves and genocide.
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I did not add to this thread so that I could be notified of seriousness, lets all return to the jokes about ancient weaponry. PM each other. :rofl
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You aren't very clear on the terms of the cease fire that "ended" the first Gulf War are you?
And BTW, Adolf Hitler was "democratically elected" as well.
But I understand some of yas are OK with mass graves and genocide.
Hm? Genocide? I was not aware Iran was planning to go on a genocidal campaign across the Middle East. Please enlighten me.
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You are already involved in two illegal wars with civillian deaths numbering in the millions based on manufactured nonexistent evidence and now your talking about attacking a country that has not done anything illegal or attacked anyone in the last 70years
You allready assasinated one of their democratic elected prime ministers and constantly talk about bombing them.
Wow the brainwashing must be astonishing to make you think you have any moral highground or justification for an attack in this.
Hush,
Considering the Swiss involvement in the holocust of WW2. I think you are the pot calling the kettle black. The Swiss claimed neutrality whilest designing and selling the ovens used in the camps. The Swiss took in deposit the wealth stolen by the Nazi's from Jewish civilians. That includes the gold taken from thier teeth. To this day Swiss banks are still refusing to return what was stolen and deposited.
No I'm not Jewish.
Americas not perfect, but it beats the hell out of EUROPE!
MOST OF THE WORLDS PROBLEMS STILL STEM FROM EUROPEAN IMPERIALISM.
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You are already involved in two illegal wars with civillian deaths numbering in the millions based on manufactured nonexistent evidence and now your talking about attacking a country that has not done anything illegal or attacked anyone in the last 70years
You allready assasinated one of their democratic elected prime ministers and constantly talk about bombing them.
Wow the brainwashing must be astonishing to make you think you have any moral highground or justification for an attack in this.
:rofl
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Hm? Genocide? I was not aware Iran was planning to go on a genocidal campaign across the Middle East. Please enlighten me.
<---- Looking for a facepalm picture, but it's just not worth it.
I was referring to his statement about "illegal wars" particularly in Iraq. Read up on what Saddam did during his reign of mercy.
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I really hate to interject but when is war ever "legal"?
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I really hate to interject but when is war ever "legal"?
When it the use of force is justified, which is usually in the mind of the beholder.
ack-ack
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Hm? Genocide? I was not aware Iran was planning to go on a genocidal campaign across the Middle East. Please enlighten me.
What's to plan, it's already been done and still ongoing in their own country, with plans to expand to Isreal soon.
Sorry, I really can't add anything else to what Mechanic said to highlight his grave ignorance and stupidity of international doctrine and corrupt dictatorships. Your defence of Iran's dictatorship is insulting, not to me really I could honestly care more about tomorrow's weather, but to the millions of free American-Iranian citizens, many of whom I live and deal with regularly here in the Greater Los Angeles Metropolitian Area and who would of served my arse on a platter and my head on a pike if I said what you did. Then again, I'm sure you know so much more about Iran and the Iranian people and culture than anyone else here, it's not like there's more Iranians and people of Iranian decent living in Los Angeles that fled (or were persecuted out of) their homeland than all of Tehran.
Get a book.
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What's to plan, it's already been done and still ongoing in their own country, with plans to expand to Israel soon.
Sorry, I really can't add anything else to what Mechanic said to highlight his grave ignorance and stupidity of international doctrine and corrupt dictatorships. Your defence of Iran's dictatorship is insulting, not to me really I could honestly care more about tomorrow's weather, but to the millions of free American-Iranian citizens, many of whom I live and deal with regularly here in the Greater Los Angeles Metropolitian Area and who would of served my arse on a platter and my head on a pike if I said what you did. Then again, I'm sure you know so much more about Iran and the Iranian people and culture than anyone else here, it's not like there's more Iranians and people of Iranian decent living in Los Angeles that fled (or were persecuted out of) their homeland than all of Tehran.
Get a book.
I am the son of a first generation Iranian immigrant, and he did not leave because of persecution. He left just before Iraq instigated a terrible war with his country, and just before many of his friends and family were called in to serve against Saddam. Secondly, Iran is not a dictatorship, It is a theocratic Republic. Finally, to the best of my knowledge, the government does not persecute any race or creed, excluding homosexuals and nonconformist women, but these are not a phenomenon exclusive to Iran. True, they openly oppose Israel, but one would be hard-pressed to find someone from this area of the world who did not. In fact, if I recall correctly, Saddam commited acts of genocide to isolated cultures within his own state of Iraq using weapons such as the redirection of bodies of water, and chemical weaponry. I do not claim to know more than any of you, and am unsure why every one is so quick to type up a nasty response to whatever is presented before them, but this is what the information I have seems to suggest. Flame away.
Also, IN. It's getting rather political-esque in here.
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<---- Looking for a facepalm picture, but it's just not worth it.
I was referring to his statement about "illegal wars" particularly in Iraq. Read up on what Saddam did during his reign of mercy.
Hm. Are you referring to IRAQI acts of genocide, or IRANIAN crimes? If it is the former, we have had a terrible misunderstand.
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True, they openly oppose Israel, but one would be hard-pressed to find someone from this area of the world who did not.
That's one way to put it i guess.
Is Skuzzy on vacation?
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Hush,
Considering the Swiss involvement in the holocust of WW2. I think you are the pot calling the kettle black. The Swiss claimed neutrality whilest designing and selling the ovens used in the camps. The Swiss took in deposit the wealth stolen by the Nazi's from Jewish civilians. That includes the gold taken from thier teeth. To this day Swiss banks are still refusing to return what was stolen and deposited.
No I'm not Jewish.
Americas not perfect, but it beats the hell out of EUROPE!
MOST OF THE WORLDS PROBLEMS STILL STEM FROM EUROPEAN IMPERIALISM.
Wow just wow, we built the ovens? really how dense are you :lol
Just for your information we harbored more Jewish refugees than any other european country during ww2.
Get a clue
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Who said anything about them using it on The West? This military display is more likely to be targeting weaker and more peacefull muslim factions in the area. Join us against The West or we can take your land anyhow. Join us against The West because with us, you stand more chance. Leaving Iran to develope over the last ten years has been pure lunacy on our part. Just because we can turn them to glass in minutes does not mean they could not significantly damage our infrastructure and population in the conflict.
Iran's growing power today is a direct result of our war in the Middle East, in my opinion. We have been screwing with the little fish while the pike has been feeding in peace. What did we expect? That the destructive example we set in Afganistan and Iraq would keep Iran behaving nicely? Show them what might happen if they get too big? No....all we have done is shown them what they will have to fight against if they expect to keep thier culture clean of the infidel's poisen. We have shown them what to expect and we have wasted a decade fighting while they prepare better to go out fighting.
Sure, this weapon might not be that great. But what it stands for is far more important. Iran clearly has enough time, money and freedom to even make this global display.
:lol Maybe they fear that the UK will do to them what they have done to all the other places they occupied ? :lol Who are you and why are you in Iraq and Afghanistan? Still looking for WMDs or Osama? Lets cut the crap and the big speeches. We all know and they all know why all this is happening. If they learned anything from this war is that if it takes 10 years to figure out Iraq, it will take 20 or 30 to deal with them. These regimes did not pop out of no where. They were created by the same people that are complaining about them now. If I remember correctly, we were allies with Sadam for a long time. I quess his crimes were ok all that time and Iraq did not need to be liberated :lol Same with Iran. Bunch of hypocrites or clueless people yupping their mouths making fun of the missile. Guess what, IEDs are even lower tech but they go boom and do kill . We are fighting what we have created and the civilians as always pay and will pay the price.
On with the human empire now :lol I really want nothing to do with it, but I am sure you will force me in to it for my own good. Thank you in advance :aok
Our human race is heading for a major leap in evolution. Not long from now we will be colonising and farming other solar systems one way or another. There is only one way this goal is possible. That is by being united as one global nation. But this transition is not yet certain. Untill acceptance of different cultures is granted by all cultures to all cultures we will fail to coexist at the required level to meet these galactic ambitions.
Most of the world is getting in line with this. Even the Far East and West have started to learn to get along, albeit at a snail's pace currently. Those elite sects of violent religeous conflict that try to persist will be eliminated by the global nation that we are becoming. There is no question about this. The question is how much damage will the 'terrorists' inflict before we are free of human warfare on Earth? Are Iran even that outdated in culture today? Will Iran evolve to become part of the Human Empire or do they fear us too much? If they fear that we will do to them what we have done to their nieghbours, conflict is almost certain.
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Maybe they fear that the UK will do to them what they have done to all the other places they occupied ? Who are you and why are you in Iraq and Afghanistan? Still looking for WMDs or Osama? Lets cut the crap and the big speeches. We all know and they all know why all this is happening. If they learned anything from this war is that if it takes 10 years to figure out Iraq, it will take 20 or 30 to deal with them. These regimes did not pop out of no where. They were created by the same people that are complaining about them now. If I remember correctly, we were allies with Sadam for a long time. I quess his crimes were ok all that time and Iraq did not need to be liberated Same with Iran. Bunch of hypocrites or clueless people yupping their mouths making fun of the missile. Guess what, IEDs are even lower tech but they go boom and do kill . We are fighting what we have created and the civilians as always pay and will pay the price.
On with the human empire now I really want nothing to do with it, but I am sure you will force me in to it for my own good. Thank you in advance
I wont force you into it! I'm with you, lets form a cult.
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Wow it can fly almost half way across Texas. :D
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yep in
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I wont force you into it! I'm with you, lets form a cult.
Well, I always wanted to start a church. IN if I can be the treasurer.
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The swiss engineered and manufactured the death camp ovens?
Never heard that one before.
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Wow it can fly almost half way across Texas. :D
Was just wondering that too... It's a little more than half way by some estimates. :aok
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Was just wondering that too... It's a little more than half way by some estimates. :aok
Shhhh I'm including the buffer zone that includes part of our eventual 51st state..... Old Mexico
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LOL. "Old Mexico"
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Well, I always wanted to start a church. IN if I can be the treasurer.
oh great, does that mean i get to be the one who molests the choir boys?
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:huh
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Wow just wow, we built the ovens? really how dense are you :lol
Just for your information we harbored more Jewish refugees than any other european country during ww2.
Get a clue
I guess you two have been sucked into your own world of propaganda. I did not make this up, if I know about it, its because it was docuemented and presented in historical context to the public.
Just because individules in Switzerland helped the German Jewish refugees does not mean that others did not profit from the outrage. Are you saying that the families of the dead have not been trying to get thier family possesions back from Swiss banks? You must live in a cave.
American leaders, to our shame, knew what the Nazi's were doing and turned thier backs to the issue. I guess I'm not so dense to know this.
Illegal wars?? Thats why it was sanctioned by the UN and theres more than one country fighting with us. I believe the world calls it a coalition force.
You do not like America, fine thats your right, but your ignorance does not give you the right to judge. I do my damdest to learn history, maybe you should learn your own countries history and failings! I imagine that even God is ashamed of the animals he wrought.
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Well, I always wanted to start a church. IN if I can be the treasurer.
In if I can be the choir director
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Hopefully Suicide Bombers don't have a strong union...
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oh great, does that mean i get to be the one who molests the choir boys?
Looks like you are going to have to fight Dichotomi over the job. muahahahahah
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*kicks Ded soundly in the shins :mad:
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*kicks Ded soundly in the shins :mad:
:O
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*kicks Ded soundly in the shins :mad:
Violence is not the answer... unless it is in the form of Iraqian V1 missiles.
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Violence is not the answer... unless it is in the form of Iraqian V1 missiles.
he upset my sheep... nuff said
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oh great, does that mean i get to be the one who molests the choir boys?
The choir section is looking for a eunuch for the tenor section, :devil
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Violence is not the answer... unless it is in the form of Iraqian V1 missiles.
Iraqi...just Iraqi..just lke Pakistani, or Israeli, of Uzbekistani..I've never seen the additional -an suffix. Just a friendly observation...
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Shhhh I'm including the buffer zone that includes part of our eventual 51st state..... Old Mexico
just saying, mexico has 31 states, lol
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Iraqi...just Iraqi..just lke Pakistani, or Israeli, of Uzbekistani..I've never seen the additional -an suffix. Just a friendly observation...
So..... I did a "Bushism?"
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Secondly, Iran is not a dictatorship, It is a theocratic Republic.
Funny thing about that is that to be a republic means that the people, not a single ruler/monarch/dictator/emperor is in charge of the goverment.
theocracy, to quote wiki, is "a form of government in which a state is governed by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided" .
so... it cant be both. Officials that are divinely guided means an exclusive club of people with the backing of the state religious group get to choose who leads the nation and what happens, when and where. Its as if the US was led by a congress composed exclusively of Quakers with Obama as a sock puppet.
That is not a rule of the people, its a cartel running a country... and that is no different than a military running the country (which we commonly call a dictatorship).
Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship as well for all purposes. Just like the 'theocratic republic' of iran, its the saudi royal family 'cartel' that chooses who the next king is and what gets done where and when.
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Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship as well for all purposes. Just like the 'theocratic republic' of iran, its the saudi royal family 'cartel' that chooses who the next king is and what gets done where and when.
Sooooo, are we going to liberate them any time soon? Get the B52s ready :rofl
I don;t disagree with you at all on your statements. I just would like to add that democracies are for the most part are just a theory (at list current day democracies). Yeah, we get to vote for some guy we for the most part don't know very well until he gets on TV before elections, but once we vote them in, do we really have any say on what happens or what they do? I don;t remember having a say on if my taxes would go up or down, don't remember having a choice on going to war, who our country should be selling weapons too, health care reform, new laws etc. Sure, my representatives are there voting for me but come to think of it, I don;t remember them asking what my opinion was. So, to me, a democracy is very similar to a dictatorship with the exception that every 4 years we get to pick one of two people to be the next one. It keeps people quiet because as far as they know, they have a choice and somehow are in control, but really . . . ?
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Sooooo, are we going to liberate them any time soon? Get the B52s ready :rofl
I don;t disagree with you at all on your statements. I just would like to add that democracies are for the most part are just a theory (at list current day democracies). Yeah, we get to vote for some guy we for the most part don't know very well until he gets on TV before elections, but once we vote them in, do we really have any say on what happens or what they do? I don;t remember having a say on if my taxes would go up or down, don't remember having a choice on going to war, who our country should be selling weapons too, health care reform, new laws etc. Sure, my representatives are there voting for me but come to think of it, I don;t remember them asking what my opinion was. So, to me, a democracy is very similar to a dictatorship with the exception that every 4 years we get to pick one of two people to be the next one. It keeps people quiet because as far as they know, they have a choice and somehow are in control, but really . . . ?
Thankfully, we don't have pure democracy, not on this side of the pond and surely even less so on yours. I think Churchill said something to the effect of "five minutes speaking with the average person is the best argument against democracy" (paraphrased poorly, I'm sure). Look at the percentage of the US population that voted in the last presidential election vs the percentage that voted in that last season of American Idol and you'll see why. The average person is a knuckle dragging moron whose motivations likely don't extend very far at all beyond "what's in it for me, right now" when it comes to politics. The percentage that really do care about what goes on in DC are a minority, and are evenly devided for the most part, although they mostly populate the fringe ideological edges of their party affiliations. The smallest, rarest group is the elusive "independant" that is concerned but doesn't toe a party line. This small group likely will determine the election. A portion of this small group that gives a rats arse do so because they are either a large part of the 25% - 30% of the population that pays over 70% of the taxes (they have a real vested interest) or they are of the other group that has figured out that the best way to a free hand-out is through DC (why beg locally when you can go straight to the source?). The rest of the population of this great land, at least when it comes to politics, are ignorant at best, morons at worst. There is a reason we don't vote on every single issue, but instead leave it up to people we feel (at least based on what lines of BS they spewed to get elected) capable of making decisions on our behalf. We are technically a representative republic.... so that we as a population are protected from ourselves. You wanna get yourself elected to the Presidency? Ignite the morons. Give them emotional reasons. Stir up their feelings towards religion, race, "choice," "fairness," or whatever you have to do. Don't give them hope for anything you are going to do, just make the mad enough about what you think the last guy did wrong. You don't have to actually tell them anything truthful or factual about anything you either believe in, have supported in the past, or intend to pursue as part of an agenda. Just make them mad at the other party for what their guy did. It's worked in EVERY SINGLE ELECTION since the beginning of the history of this land. The average person will gobble it up without question, logical basis, or hostorical factual support. Convince the masses you're gonna give them bread, you have their votes. Stalin referred to these people as "useful idiots" and my man we have our share as well.
And as far as Saudi Arabia goes, no, we don't need to break out the B52's or send in the Rangers. Unless they a)murder a few hundred thousand (or more) of their own people, b) harbour, train and support the people who agressively and actively carry out terrorist attacks on our home soils, c) invade a neighboring country in an effort to monopolize and control a commodity to the point that they have the power to destabilize the entire world financial market, or d) attempt to build nuclear weapons with the express, stated intent of "wiping another country off the map" with them because of some ignorant bigotted hatred for their religion or their rightful claim to their homeland.
If they did that, well, yeh. I say make a parking lot out of 'em.
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I like both the last two posts and read them through carefully.
When it comes to Iran, the problem at the end of the day is we see them as 'them' not 'us'. And they see us as 'them' not 'us'
That in itself is a recipe for war. Untill the whole world of humans refers to itself as 'us' mutualy, them and us will have to keep on killing each other.
:cheers:
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Thankfully, we don't have pure democracy, not on this side of the pond and surely even less so on yours. I think Churchill said something to the effect of "five minutes speaking with the average person is the best argument against democracy" (paraphrased poorly, I'm sure). Look at the percentage of the US population that voted in the last presidential election vs the percentage that voted in that last season of American Idol and you'll see why. The average person is a knuckle dragging moron whose motivations likely don't extend very far at all beyond "what's in it for me, right now" when it comes to politics. The percentage that really do care about what goes on in DC are a minority, and are evenly devided for the most part, although they mostly populate the fringe ideological edges of their party affiliations. The smallest, rarest group is the elusive "independant" that is concerned but doesn't toe a party line. This small group likely will determine the election. A portion of this small group that gives a rats arse do so because they are either a large part of the 25% - 30% of the population that pays over 70% of the taxes (they have a real vested interest) or they are of the other group that has figured out that the best way to a free hand-out is through DC (why beg locally when you can go straight to the source?). The rest of the population of this great land, at least when it comes to politics, are ignorant at best, morons at worst. There is a reason we don't vote on every single issue, but instead leave it up to people we feel (at least based on what lines of BS they spewed to get elected) capable of making decisions on our behalf. We are technically a representative republic.... so that we as a population are protected from ourselves. You wanna get yourself elected to the Presidency? Ignite the morons. Give them emotional reasons. Stir up their feelings towards religion, race, "choice," "fairness," or whatever you have to do. Don't give them hope for anything you are going to do, just make the mad enough about what you think the last guy did wrong. You don't have to actually tell them anything truthful or factual about anything you either believe in, have supported in the past, or intend to pursue as part of an agenda. Just make them mad at the other party for what their guy did. It's worked in EVERY SINGLE ELECTION since the beginning of the history of this land. The average person will gobble it up without question, logical basis, or hostorical factual support. Convince the masses you're gonna give them bread, you have their votes. Stalin referred to these people as "useful idiots" and my man we have our share as well.
Agreed 100%
And as far as Saudi Arabia goes, no, we don't need to break out the B52's or send in the Rangers. Unless they a)murder a few hundred thousand (or more) of their own people, b) harbour, train and support the people who agressively and actively carry out terrorist attacks on our home soils, c) invade a neighboring country in an effort to monopolize and control a commodity to the point that they have the power to destabilize the entire world financial market, or d) attempt to build nuclear weapons with the express, stated intent of "wiping another country off the map" with them because of some ignorant bigotted hatred for their religion or their rightful claim to their homeland.
With the exception of the nukes, I think they may have and still are doing the above :lol
If they did that, well, yeh. I say make a parking lot out of 'em.
Yep, and the people really responsible would probably escape to a safe place while the people that given a choice would just go about their business and do non of the above would pay the price. That is the paradox in all this. Every one calls for the death of the people that are being forced (if what we claim their government to be is true) to behave a certain way but not the leaders. Why not just take out the leaders that we helped in one way or another put in place?
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Someone will still have to lead them, finding a human without the weakness that power will exploit is like finding a p40b in the MA.
I'm not saying nuke anything. But taking out/replacing a leader never worked before. The only way it can work is to be led by the domimant force, and that is the USA and her accsociates... currently. If we ever make it out of this war in a peacfull treaty I doubt anything will have changed in the long run. The only way to change teh world is to kill or restrict everyone that is against you.
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Someone will still have to lead them, finding a human without the weakness that power will exploit is like finding a p40b in the MA.
I'm not saying nuke anything. But taking out/replacing a leader never worked before. The only way it can work is to be led by the domimant force, and that is the USA and her accsociates... currently. If we ever make it out of this war in a peacfull treaty I doubt anything will have changed in the long run. The only way to change teh world is to kill or restrict everyone that is against you.
Isn't that Iran's idea too? Actually, the only way to bring people together is to eliminate religions first. As long as my god is real and yours is false, and your ancestors killed his son, we will never be in peace. There will always be a reason to fight and it will be brought up every time our leaders decide we need to kill each other so their corporations can make a dollar or two. See, Reaper90 was right about what he said about the average people. However, those attributes apply to our leaders also. They are in it for them selves too.
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Exactly I agree, we are all talking from the same angle here.
The question still remains of how to reach that state where we all live in peace. Beliefs contribute to violence but even without belief we would fight for some reason untill we all felt we came from the same place. So two options realistic for us now to gain 'world peace'.
1) kill everyone who would oppose the growing united nations of the human empire
2) restrict them to the point that they would be better off dead
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Exactly I agree, we are all talking from the same angle here.
The question still remains of how to reach that state where we all live in peace. Beliefs contribute to violence but even without belief we would fight for some reason untill we all felt we came from the same place. So two options realistic for us now to gain 'world peace'.
1) kill everyone who would oppose the growing united nations of the human empire
2) restrict them to the point that they would be better off dead
ok, now that is funny. The growing united nations of human empire? Aren't those the ones that have committed the biggest crimes against humanity also? Should I start naming countries, their colonies, and the number of people the killed or made leave in poverty? If that is the empire you are talking about god helps us. Well, my god, cause yours is false ;)
Easy solution, how about we leave each other alone? See how that works out for a bit? But we can't, right? Because no matter how long we drag this discussion out and how many great ideas we have, after this thread is locked we will go back to using what and enjoying the things we are able to have and afford because of the crimes our governments have or are still committing.
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Reaper,
Nice post, right on the money.
I believe in capitolism, but unfortunately rampant, unregulated capitolism is like cancer. Lives with the host for years but eventually it takes to much , killing itself and the host.
I would say that my countries latest bank fiasco, proves my words.
Globalization is rampant, unchecked capitolism.
Thank you president Clinton for driving the final nails, thank you US supreme court for saying that the constitution of the United States gives foreign nationals and foreign corporations the right to buy congress.
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Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship as well for all purposes. Just like the 'theocratic republic' of iran, its the saudi royal family 'cartel' that chooses who the next king is and what gets done where and when.
Actually Saudi is a Kingdom based on theocratic rule. Saudis generally practice Wahhabism. It is a shiite form of Islam and is the "youngest" of the Islamic sects...and one of the most inflexible. Most Islamic clerics quietly believe it was "created" for the royals 900 years ago...give or take 200 years, so they didn't violate any Islamic pretexts or rules...very convenient given that Islam forbids "kingdoms" indirectly because the "king" is Allah.
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PS -No one on this board is privy to classified information between countries intel agencies...nor are they privy to conversations regarding threats to neighboring countries abroad. It is entertaining to see how many believe what they read on the internet and newspapers..no one really knows what any of them know..I guess Britany Spears IS pregnant with a martian baby...
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ok, now that is funny. The growing united nations of human empire? Aren't those the ones that have committed the biggest crimes against humanity also? Should I start naming countries, their colonies, and the number of people the killed or made leave in poverty? If that is the empire you are talking about god helps us. Well, my god, cause yours is false ;)
Easy solution, how about we leave each other alone? See how that works out for a bit? But we can't, right? Because no matter how long we drag this discussion out and how many great ideas we have, after this thread is locked we will go back to using what and enjoying the things we are able to have and afford because of the crimes our governments have or are still committing.
You are being very hostile to someone who agrees the same way as you Ded, calm down :)
What ever god you think i worship you are wrong, I dont. And I don't like my governments and I don't like human history of treating each other. I am the first to look at what we have done wrong.
You are taking my post as my wishes?
It is not, it is an observation of the way things are going.
I'll leave you alone if you want, but I am not sure why you think I'm attacking you, I'm agreeing with your philosophy. :headscratch:
S!
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Reaper,
Nice post, right on the money.
I believe in capitolism, but unfortunately rampant, unregulated capitolism is like cancer. Lives with the host for years but eventually it takes to much , killing itself and the host.
I would say that my countries latest bank fiasco, proves my words.
Globalization is rampant, unchecked capitolism.
Thank you president Clinton for driving the final nails, thank you US supreme court for saying that the constitution of the United States gives foreign nationals and foreign corporations the right to buy congress.
Reaper, Im not picking on your quote, rather using it to illustrate a point: It seems that all countries have their failures, modesties, inconsistencies and poor examples of government. As I read these posts, its interesting that what gets mentioned are the exceptions, not the rules. As an example, there is nothing wrong with capitalism. It works great...until it's exploited by a few that seek ways to make it work unbalanced in their favor...but that is nothing new...that is humanity and its failure. Its no different that Islam...very few Muslims are extremeists right? But the few that are seem to be getting all the attention for the damage they create. No, I am not Muslim....lol...again, an analogy.
Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater....
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Siemens Deutsch built the ovens. They were a major builder, supporter and contributer to Hitler and the rise of Democratic Socialism. They also helped in the post war rebuilding of Germany. Siemens Schweiz was the Swiss affiliate which had been in Switzerland for nearly 100 years up till then and cut ties with Germany per Switzerlands neutrality.
IBM sold and maintained business machines in europe and to Germany before the war. Trained the personel to use the machines which where relocated to the camps the Siemens ovens were used at. This was to help keep orderly records and processing time tables. IBM had on going support contracts through the war and made money off them and lied to the war department about it. They saw it as a good business strategy because the war would end eventualy and europe would need business machines in the aftermath.
Some sources say Joseph Kennedy was a Natzi sympithyser, hated Jews, and sold tires to Germany before and during the war.
There are many one sided ideologicly driven conspiracy theory web sites on the internet that focus on a single bit of scewed information to try and villify a universe of people, companies and history. Siemens and those ovens is one internet villan. IBM and WW2 Germany is another. Joe Kennedy, antisemitism and selling tires to the Natzi's is another. Everyone who had anything to do with those ovens, business machines or tires is now dead or soon to be.
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(http://precision.forumotion.net/users/1211/28/98/53/smiles/360290.gif)
(http://precision.forumotion.net/users/1211/28/98/53/smiles/871991.gif)
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Plus we suck at nation-building. Truly. Bombing them into oblivion is one thing, building them back up so they won't come back at you is another.
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Plus we suck at nation-building. Truly. Bombing them into oblivion is one thing, building them back up so they won't come back at you is another.
Ummm, Germany and Japan didn't turn out to terribly bad....at least they haven't started any World Wars lately.....just saying
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Ummm, Germany and Japan didn't turn out to terribly bad....at least they haven't started any World Wars lately.....just saying
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Yeah I was gonna mention those two, but it helps when you've got the guilt of genocide or the cultural fear of nuclear war embedded into you.
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PS -No one on this board is privy to classified information between countries intel agencies...nor are they privy to conversations regarding threats to neighboring countries abroad. It is entertaining to see how many believe what they read on the internet and newspapers..no one really knows what any of them know..I guess Britany Spears IS pregnant with a martian baby...
Amen. I always get a chuckle when I hear some blow-hard "Monday Morning quarterback" yammering on about "wars based on lies and faked intelligence" or any such nonsense. Many of today's "facts" almost always turn out to be the stuff of comedy years later.
I do know (based on the media at the time, as much as you can call that 'fact') that prior to the Gulf War both houses of Congress, both sides of the aisle, our military and government intel agencies as well as those of almost every 'friendly' neighboring country to Iraq as well as their heads of states ALL were very sure of the evidence supporting the existance of WMD's in Iraq. It wasn't until they couldn't be found that there was every a question. But they've never found Jimmy Hoffa either, does that mean he never existed? You give someone months and months to hide/move/dispose of something in an area as large as Iraq and you'll NEVER find it, and that problem is only compounded byt he existance of neighboring states like Syria that would have been more than happy to help with his efforts to conceal the "evidence." Saddam's refusal to cooperate with inspections didn't help his case for there not being any WMD's, either.
But that's neither here nor there, at this point. WMD's were only one part of the equation that lead to that war.
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Yep, and the people really responsible would probably escape to a safe place while the people that given a choice would just go about their business and do non of the above would pay the price. That is the paradox in all this. Every one calls for the death of the people that are being forced (if what we claim their government to be is true) to behave a certain way but not the leaders. Why not just take out the leaders that we helped in one way or another put in place?
Well, I was speaking figuratively, but I'm completely down with your approach.
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Isn't that Iran's idea too? Actually, the only way to bring people together is to eliminate religions first. As long as my god is real and yours is false, and your ancestors killed his son, we will never be in peace. There will always be a reason to fight and it will be brought up every time our leaders decide we need to kill each other so their corporations can make a dollar or two. See, Reaper90 was right about what he said about the average people. However, those attributes apply to our leaders also. They are in it for them selves too.
^ THIS
There is no way you'll even convince people who are on the religeous fringes to give up 4 or 5 thousand years of their culture and beliefs in the name of "global unification."
"So that some dude in 50 years can live on the moon I have to give up spiritual salvation?" LOL You're more likely to sell snow to Eskimos.
And as much as I despise the Imperial Federal Government of the United States of Amerika, I trust it INFINITELY more than the United Nations, the poster child for corruption, greed, ineffectiveness and waste. The UN makes the Gambino Family look like the Better Business Bureau.
I'll second the notion that everybody leaves everybody else alone, until such time that someone does something to deliberately hurt us or our well-being, or generally acts in a manner that cannot be tolerated (that whole genocide thing). Then it's "game on."
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Reaper, Im not picking on your quote, rather using it to illustrate a point: It seems that all countries have their failures, modesties, inconsistencies and poor examples of government. As I read these posts, its interesting that what gets mentioned are the exceptions, not the rules. As an example, there is nothing wrong with capitalism. It works great...until it's exploited by a few that seek ways to make it work unbalanced in their favor...but that is nothing new...that is humanity and its failure. Its no different that Islam...very few Muslims are extremeists right? But the few that are seem to be getting all the attention for the damage they create. No, I am not Muslim....lol...again, an analogy.
I agree, and have freinds and clients that are of the Muslim faith. I know it only takes the msguided acts of a few to attract a light that makes many look bad, perhaps wrongfully.
The problems I have, though, are not so much that there are extremists and crazies, every group has those. It's the actions of the others. Better yet, the inaction. The silence. The failure to universally denounce the acts of others. In many Muslim nations, the idea of a suicide bomber killing civilians is still a popular one, and accepted as a legitimate action by a large percentage of the populations. You think the 9/11 bombers are considered "bad guys" by the average person in Yemen and Saudi Arabia? Doubt it. I still remember the video feed of people cheering and dancing in the streets in the Palestinian territories when the news of the 9/11 attacks was first broadcast. Strange how those videos disappeared from the news broadcasts very quickly.
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Amen. I always get a chuckle when I hear some blow-hard "Monday Morning quarterback" yammering on about "wars based on lies and faked intelligence" or any such nonsense. Many of today's "facts" almost always turn out to be the stuff of comedy years later.
I do know (based on the media at the time, as much as you can call that 'fact') that prior to the Gulf War both houses of Congress, both sides of the aisle, our military and government intel agencies as well as those of almost every 'friendly' neighboring country to Iraq as well as their heads of states ALL were very sure of the evidence supporting the existance of WMD's in Iraq. It wasn't until they couldn't be found that there was every a question. But they've never found Jimmy Hoffa either, does that mean he never existed? You give someone months and months to hide/move/dispose of something in an area as large as Iraq and you'll NEVER find it, and that problem is only compounded byt he existance of neighboring states like Syria that would have been more than happy to help with his efforts to conceal the "evidence." Saddam's refusal to cooperate with inspections didn't help his case for there not being any WMD's, either.
But that's neither here nor there, at this point. WMD's were only one part of the equation that lead to that war.
Agreed....the sad truth is that Obama made some promises exactly like every other 1st term POTUS before him, then, when he was elected, he got to actually SEE what was behind Door #1 and guess what? Bobby Barker yelled, "Hey Obama, COME ON DOWN!!!!" Obama suddenly wasn't excited to keep promises he made with half of the information he needed to make them. No American citizen gets to see what's really behind Door #1....we should quit acting like we have.
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I agree, and have freinds and clients that are of the Muslim faith. I know it only takes the msguided acts of a few to attract a light that makes many look bad, perhaps wrongfully.
The problems I have, though, are not so much that there are extremists and crazies, every group has those. It's the actions of the others. Better yet, the inaction. The silence. The failure to universally denounce the acts of others. In many Muslim nations, the idea of a suicide bomber killing civilians is still a popular one, and accepted as a legitimate action by a large percentage of the populations. You think the 9/11 bombers are considered "bad guys" by the average person in Yemen and Saudi Arabia? Doubt it. I still remember the video feed of people cheering and dancing in the streets in the Palestinian territories when the news of the 9/11 attacks was first broadcast. Strange how those videos disappeared from the news broadcasts very quickly.
100% agreement with one side-bar....it would be hard to denounce something that is actually written in your "bible". You know its morally reprehensible but to act against it would be blasphemy and make you a target. It appears they aren't ready for that kind of courageous action...it will come but probably not in our lifetime.
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I've felt for awhile that we should dump the UN. Great idea, poor execution.
Shakespere said,
1st thing we should do, is kill all the lawyers. I would add bankers and stock brokers to this. :devil
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Shakespere said,
1st thing we should do, is kill all the lawyers.
I'd be careful when you come for us. Some of us are pretty well armed :)
-Sik
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Here comes the neocons with their war drumbeat and a bad excuse to go to another war.
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Here comes the neocons with their war drumbeat and a bad excuse to go to another war.
Easy Raider..no one is callling for a hitching-of-the-ponies-all-out-America-wants-blow-up-another-country. That being said, no one here is privy to any national security intelligence...period. That is not arguable. One of the ideals that made this country great was citizen-government. If someone thinks they can govern better, they are more than welcome to run a race and make a difference. I don't see a ton of "well-informed" people running for office in my area....i see the same old BS from the same ole Kay Bailey Hutchinsons and Rick Perrys while the rest of the population claims to be neo-con or liberal but does nothing about the booms in office.
Again...just because it's on TV or the internet doesn't make it true...Just sayin...dont be so quick to throw Neocon out there just because someone believes that both wars were right, long term. That is how I feel from knowing officers and non-coms that are men of character that I personally served with earlier in my life that were there in 01, with some serving through this moment. Beyond the shadow of any doubt, I trust their experience and opinions with regard to the "whys" and "reasons", including the necessity of both wars. Who I do not trust are media outlets that get paid.....paid to print stories of sensationalism that will promote their writer's careers or website's advertising and further their own positions that are littered with factless claims mixed with half-truths. But that's just me...I am looking forward to that dialogue off-line.
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:O How did this thread slip past the powers to be?
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(http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/4598/skuzzysignal.gif) (http://img810.imageshack.us/i/skuzzysignal.gif/)
:D
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(http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/4598/skuzzysignal.gif) (http://img810.imageshack.us/i/skuzzysignal.gif/)
:D
:lol :rofl :lol
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(http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/4598/skuzzysignal.gif) (http://img810.imageshack.us/i/skuzzysignal.gif/)
:D
:banana:
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This thread was good for a giggle, especially from our swiss "friend". I am surprised it hasn't
been locked yet though. :aok
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Here comes the neocons with their war drumbeat and a bad excuse to go to another war.
hippy
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Actually Saudi is a Kingdom based on theocratic rule. Saudis generally practice Wahhabism. It is a shiite form of Islam and is the "youngest" of the Islamic sects...and one of the most inflexible. Most Islamic clerics quietly believe it was "created" for the royals 900 years ago...give or take 200 years, so they didn't violate any Islamic pretexts or rules...very convenient given that Islam forbids "kingdoms" indirectly because the "king" is Allah.
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PS -No one on this board is privy to classified information between countries intel agencies...nor are they privy to conversations regarding threats to neighboring countries abroad. It is entertaining to see how many believe what they read on the internet and newspapers..no one really knows what any of them know..I guess Britany Spears IS pregnant with a martian baby...
Saudi Arabia is majority Sunni Muslim and Wahhabi is a conservative Sunni Islamic sect, not Shi'ite. The Wahhabi sect came to being in the 18th century through the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab that stemmed from his advocating purging anything in Islam that he considered to be "innovations", with the primary doctrine being Tawhid.
ack-ack
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Plus we suck at nation-building. Truly. Bombing them into oblivion is one thing, building them back up so they won't come back at you is another.
We do? I thought we did a pretty good job with Japan and Western Europe after the war but I guess they don't teach that in school these days.
ack-ack
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Saudi Arabia is majority Sunni Muslim and Wahhabi is a conservative Sunni Islamic sect, not Shi'ite. The Wahhabi sect came to being in the 18th century through the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab that stemmed from his advocating purging anything in Islam that he considered to be "innovations", with the primary doctrine being Tawhid.
ack-ack
ack-ack,
Sorry, I was using my memory and I guess switched them, you apparently used Wikipedia as your quote is virtually word for word....good catch though. I dont know what we would do here without the trollers verifications..thank goodness we are safe!
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